BS: Freemasonry

Subject: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST,A Widow's Son
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 11:37 PM

OK, for the purposes of this post I am not me, for obvious reasons. And of course Freemasonry is hardly very secret any more. And of course it differs in the USA.

However, while the collections for charity and all that sort of stuff are admirable, WTF is the point of the quasi-religious ceremony, the quasi-military marching about, the "Boy's own Paper" mysticism, the half-arsed symbolism, and the transparently imaginary historical mumbo-jumbo, not to mention the "Little Boys' Club, no girlies allowed" nonsense?

Does anyone really believe that there is a secret inner cabal that wields true power, when the big cheese in the UK is that buffoon Prince Michael of Kent? Most lodges seem to be full of taxi-drivers, the odd builder, plumbers and double-glazing salesmen, the occasional slum landlord, plus civil servants and failed teachers (hell, there's a concept).   

Does anyone really believe that it opens up vistas of secret opportunity for profit (I wish)?

Subject: RE: BS: Freeemasonry
From: GUEST,Hon. Mrs Elizabeth Aldsworth
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 11:46 PM

Not at all. Beleive me. I know.

Subject: RE: BS: Freeemasonry
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 12:12 AM

Interesting set of questions.

Cryptic.....

Not at all what?

Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 12:46 AM

I'm Catholic, and I know all about the historical and theological reasons why Catholics aren't supposed to joing the Freemasons - but to me, it looks like Freemasons are people out to have a good time, enjoy each other's company, and do something good for their community. The rituals and pageantry just add to their enjoyment and appreciation of their organization and its history. Oh, I suppose that Freemasons espouse some moral values - but from what I've seen, those values seem to be pretty good ones.

I'm sure there are flaky elements within Freemasonry - but I think that Freemasons, like most people, are just good folks.

I think the same can be said for Moslems, born-again Christians, and even Republicans - and it's probably about what I have to say in answer to the Children and religion thread.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 03:50 AM

Hey, at least they don't go round flaunting it, and saying I'm one and you're not! Unlike the members of some elective clubs, like parliament or congress.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 03:58 AM

Enough help for today, Widow's Son??

Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Folkiedave
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 04:30 AM

it looks like Freemasons are people out to have a good time, enjoy each other's company, and do something good for their community. The rituals and pageantry just add to their enjoyment and appreciation of their organization and its history. Oh, I suppose that Freemasons espouse some moral values - but from what I've seen, those values seem to be pretty good ones.

Bit like Morris dancers really.

Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Alan Day
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 04:32 AM

I am off to a meeting this evening "Widows Son" ,see a lot of good friends,play some music and enjoy the tradition.
I shall not rise to your bait and whilst you sit at home planning your next attack I shall be enjoying myself.
Al

Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Crystal
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 04:36 AM

Apparently there ARE women only lodges of the Masons!

Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 06:08 AM

A friend showed me round a Freemason's lodge the other day. It was a grand building in a Northern UK city. I was struck by how old fashioned it seemed - there was an air of faded grandeur about it - a feeling that this had once been an important and influential place, but no longer. Plaques on the walls commerated the fallen in the Great Wars of the Twentieth Century and forgotten aristocrats and notables.

I'm sure many of these people were fine, brave people who did great works - and some of them may have been dubious characters who did dodgy deals. Nevertheless, I can't help thinking that the days when Freemasons were a force in the land are over.

Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 06:17 AM

Well the only response I can make to that Shimrod, is to say that apparently the largest occupational group within the membership of Freemasonry is policemen!
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Paul Burke
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 06:44 AM

I disagree with Freemasonry, but let's shake on it.

Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 06:52 AM

Why are you pressing my knuckle in that suggestive way Paul?
G.

Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: catspaw49
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 06:53 AM

Would you feel better if they charged? I mean what do you want Paul? It's FREE!





I'll be leaving now........

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 07:22 AM

Crystal, what is your source on that? As far as I know the Eastern Star is the women's equivalent.

Oh well, *ho hum* another troll started thread...and, we've already Been Here Before.

Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 08:21 AM

That will all end soon when we go over to members only posting ☺
G.[hopefully]

Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 08:41 AM

Just goes to prove my point, 'John 'Giok'' - most policemen, these days, couldn't catch a cold in a common cold ward!

Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST,Davetnova
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 09:50 AM

Jim O'Kane was a mason
A square dealing man
He was aye on the level
Wi' a shake o' his haun

Wi his feet at right angles
He thought he'd go far
nonchalantly gein signals
As he stood at the bar

And who is yer grannie
He signalled tae me
As he rolled up his troosers
Tae expose his left knee

He wis good at folk singin
He preferred it tae jazz
An' his favorite singer
Wis ca'd Joan Boaz

But it's cost him a fortune
For his secret delights
So he told me last Tuesday
That he's joining the Knights

Of Saint Columba

(I think it's Matt McGinn, could be wrong)

Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Crystal
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 09:51 AM

I forget Kat, it was in the Times I think (although should we trust them?). I'm sure a search will turn it up.

Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: The Shambles
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 09:51 AM

Bit like Morris dancers really.

Only they dress even siller than Morris dancers and know even less about why they are dressed up so.

Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Peace
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 10:15 AM

The thing most secret societies have in common is funny hats. Strange, that.

Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Wesley S
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 10:17 AM

I worry about the kids in Masonic homes. Those Masonic morals are rammed down their throats almost as soon as they can speak - these poor kids are brainwashed from an early age. I respect that children should be brought up to respect good and evil,but why should they not have a chance to choose or not to choose their own views when they are older and more fully understand the choices available to them.

Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: The Shambles
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 10:17 AM

And a quick desire to get all the ceromony over and rush to the bar.

Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 10:21 AM

LOL, Wesley...ah, the horrors of DeMolay and Job's Daughters! Why, look at what happened to me!

Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: The Shambles
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 10:29 AM

You may indeed have a point Wesley.

Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Midchuck
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 10:32 AM

A friend showed me round a Freemason's lodge the other day. It was a grand building in a Northern UK city. I was struck by how old fashioned it seemed - there was an air of faded grandeur about it - a feeling that this had once been an important and influential place, but no longer. Plaques on the walls commerated the fallen in the Great Wars of the Twentieth Century and forgotten aristocrats and notables.

Shimrod, our group played a gig at a Masonic lodge, in New England, USA, last year, and that was exactly the impression I got. You stated it very well.

There was one plaque relating the Masons to the Knights Templar, who I thought were wiped out by Phillip of France on 10/13/1307 (the original Friday the 13th). Strange.

Peter

Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Big Mick
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 10:36 AM

Point well taken, Wes. This evil behaviour of parents forcing this on their children at such an early age before they have a chance to choose. Unconscionable. I say ban this, all religious teaching, all scout troops, and the disgraceful business of parents encouraging and forcing their kids to play all manner of sports. They should not be forced to do these things. We should wait until they are of an age to make their own choices. And folk music as well. These children should not have to endure this exposure to traditional arts and music. Have you seen these family bands? Obviously just a shill for the parents to make money and live vicariously through their children. What if these kids grow up and don't want to have anything to do with music? They will have been so brainwashed that the poor little drones will have no chance of escaping this evil.

It seems to me that all this teaching of moral values, love of sport, love of music, ethical thinking, participation in things like Daughters of Job and the various young peoples groups, is nothing more than an attempt by bad parents to spread Pandora's sins to the world. I think we should all support taking the children away from parents immediately upon birth and raising them in the proper environment, away from these evil influences, in order to make the world a much nicer place.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 10:40 AM

In something like an "orphanage," eh, Mick?**bg**

Peter, in our town, they tore down the beautiful old building where I was a "Jobie" and built a thoroughly modern building which sees much use. In fact, the Masons here encourage folk music, too! Oh, my...we actully went to a folk dance FAMILY night there! Talk about indoctrination...there were babes in arms, toddlers, young children, teens dancing and even young-uns in the Celtic band which played. It was eye-opening!

Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 10:45 AM

It must have been a band from the North ☺
G.

Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 10:50 AM

Hmmm I dunno, are you a Troll, 'Widder's Son', or are you 'on the square'?

I don't know much about the Masons, or the 'good works' versus 'stupid bunkum' stuff, but I HOPE the days of Criminals in the Dock making secret signs to the Judge, are all over. (Have to say, its difficult to think of them without inwardly giggling now, since that Simpsons episode about the 'Stonecutters'....)

Whatever happened to 'The Grand Order of Water Buffaloes'?

(yep, they did exist, & there was a cartoon piss-take of them too, on the Flintstones...who remembers THAT episode?)

Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: pdq
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 10:57 AM

One of the highest-ranking Masons in the US was Gere Autry at 33rd degree. Other top members include talk show host Art Bell and folksinger Burl Ives. Some you might not expect were heavyweight boxing champ Jack Johnson and Pop singer Nat "King" Cole. This group does not appear to be either dangerous and exclusive folks as some people claim.

Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: The Shambles
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 10:58 AM

(yep, they did exist, & there was a cartoon piss-take of them too, on the Flintstones...who remembers THAT episode?)

I do and I am sure the Grand Pooh Bah does.

Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 11:08 AM

http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/

Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: PoppaGator
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 11:34 AM

Before there was a Fred Flintstone or a Homer Simpson, Jackie Gleason's "Honeymooners" character Ralph Kramden was a member of the Loyal Order of Racoons. Their secret signal was a wagging of the tail of their coonskin caps.

Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST,3 5s are 15
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 11:43 AM

I think you'll find that this particular Widow's Son may well be on the square (and indeed a Lewis) but disillusioned. There does not seem to be much here for him, that is in any degree serious, one way or the other.

Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Alan Day
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 11:58 AM

Thanks for a good laugh Wesley.
Not as bad as you think though
Al

Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: 282RA
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 12:21 PM

I've heard that women can be Masons in France. They cannot be in the US. The OES is NOT Masonic.

Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Michael
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 01:13 PM

Do you mean 'The Royal Antedeluvian Order of Buffaloes' (RAOB) Paul?
They still exist in UK. Plenty of pub function rooms have the scrolls and buffaloe horns on the walls. I used to know an old gentleman who was a member, his description 'Though we're not supposed to put it this way' was 'workingmans masons'
Mike.

Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST,Son of a dead Brother
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 03:28 PM

This is a reply to A Widow's Son-

My dear old Dad was a 33rd degree Mason. In his final years he would hint broadly it was a path that was available to me, but only if I asked - a strict non-recruitment policy. What I think it would have meant for him was mainly that I would have been a part of a community of a sort; something which for him had been a difficult thing to achieve in life.

He had retired in Florida in the early Eighties. He found a group of like-minded men who were all from the corporate culture, mostly middle and upper management types, at or near retirement age, who liked the structure and purpose provided by regular meetings and local projects. There was an small "Araby"-themed Temple, with onion domes at the corners, where the Shriners would meet. I don't know the significance of the "Arabian" theme. These days all of that is viewed differently, no doubt, but at the time it seemed to be a way of exoticising the presentation, based on some historical aspect of ther Order.

There were a number of fund-raising events that they put on, to raise money for various local needs. The presence of the Shrine at local parades, with their funny little cars, marching band, and quasi-Arabian get-ups, was something I saw first hand a few times. Dad channeled his thwarted musical aspirations into learning to play a reeded horn in the Shrine Band, and eventually became a director of the band. Shrines would compete with one another in band contests, and also for their service accomplishments. Wives had an auxiliary function, and their own organization within the Shrine. Very old-school, sure; it was a boy's club without question.   

There was an underlying spiritual agreement about God as the master engineer, and beyond that were the "teachings" - histories of the Masonic Order through the ages, to some extent. There were ideals of the equalities of all religions and races in what they believed. Dad told me this much about it; that part was important to him. My impression though was that there was no real system to it all, no esoteric pattern to discern.

My sense of the secret stuff was that there was a lot to memorise, and that the Path of it had to do with an earnest desire to perfect one's self through the service orientation and through one's regard for the Fraternal Order and one's Brother Masons. Dad stressed that a Mason was never destitute if there were Brothers around, and that there was indeed a world-wide netwrork. There was also the aspect of advantage conferred by being a Mason; Masons would do each other favors, and I have no doubt that there are some interesting historical examples of the ways that Masons would "take care" of their own; but I began this post as a positive bit of information, without the conspiracy angles.

I was always interested in the fact of there being a Black Masonic Order, which seems to run parallel to the largely white organisation Dad belonged to. Working as a picture framer, I once framed a wonderful old poster for a black Mason, of a stairway-to-the-heavens depiction of Life's Pathway - very much in the self-improvement model that Dad had described. There was an implicit segregation; Dad knew very little about the Black Masons. (Perhaps Azizi or another member has some history to share.)

I have no doubt that there are nefarious threads to trace in the Masonic history, the secret brotherhood stuff of urban legend - that Presidents and such are all Masons - but that's not where I'm going here. I saw what the organisation did for my Dad, who had struggled in his life to find some sort of meaningful, spiritually-based connection to the world.

Dad confided that in his years as a deacon in the church, he had been a hypocrite, not believing the content of the teachings, and that even within the Masonic Order, there were things he didn't quite follow. But he found something there in the service aspect, and in the milieu community of similar aging men. On a certain level, too, there was a poignant aspect to these old guys walking in parades with their scimitars, colorful sheik-of-Araby garb and a curious self-effacement - a kind of cartoonish last hurrah for potency in the world.

My view is that there is a "teaching", but that it's an anachronistic core to something that gets realised in the practice of being part of something that has a history and a current purpose. The same reason why some folks find the church religions meaningful, or put Raider Nation decals on the rear windows of their cars. But again, I looked for indications of a coherent, esoteric teaching, and found none.

Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 04:28 PM

All of the American presidents from George Washington through Harry Truman were Freemasons. That surely needs to be held against them! Don't know about the bushbabies.

There already are other threads full of this stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Alan Day
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 06:40 PM

Wesley and Big Mick I did not have time to properly answer you earlier but both of my sons have not followed me into Masonary,if they asked me I would be pleased to organise it but they have not.They know nothing of Masonary and it something they have never wished to discuss,they have been invited to a couple of Ladies nights
(A meal and dance )and that is the only contact they have made with members of the Lodge I attend.I am giving them the chance to decide.
They have complained more about my concertina practicing and that is probably why they both do not play an instrument.
Are you the person Widows Son that belonged to a Lodge in Sussex?
If you are it is time to move on and put your hatred to one side.
Al

Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Big Mick
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 06:57 PM

Alan, thanks for the explanation, but it wasn't necessary. Those were tongue in cheek comments based on another thread.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST,thurg
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 07:19 PM

Re: black masons. There is a brief bit in the movie "Rosewood" in which a black man who is escaping the general slaughter compels a white man to help him, on the basis of their shared Masonhood. Don't know if it's based on an actual incident or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: BuckMulligan
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 07:40 PM

There is - or was, I'm a bit out of touch - an organization known as "Prince Hall masonry" (named after a man named Prince Hall, I think) which served black members. I have no idea whether there was a formal affiliation with either of the "official" rites (York and Scottish) and/or AF&AM. When I had anything to do with Masons (the 60s) they were not integrated. The "affiliate" organizations like OES and DeMolay and Rainbow Girls claim not to be "junior masonic organizations" but the fact that in order to organize a chapter of DeMolay you need an advisory board of adults ("Dads") who MUST be masons (when I was Master Councillor of my chapter, my own Dad, who had been a DeMolay but was not a mason, was not allowed on the advisory council) pretty much gives the lie to that claim of "non-junior mason" status.

Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST,Wesley S
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 07:59 PM

My tongue was only slightly in my cheek Mick. Alan - I was trying to make a comparison between your post about the ill effects of religion on children and the fact that there are many people - and I'm NOT one of them - that consider Masons to be nothing more than a cult - or worse. Many of the same things that you have said about organized religions have also been said about Masons. So how about a little tolerance please?

Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 10:55 PM

The power of Freemasonry lies in its ability to neutralize good people who might otherwise become opponents. 99.9% of masons think they're just part of a do-good group, and in exchange for their efforts they're given a little leg-up here and there as they go through life. Honestly, that's how they view it. And they do indeed DO good deeds. Charity and so on.

But then there's that .1%. I mean...basics. How many degrees in a circle? 360. How many degrees in masonry? 33? Come on. That's just the first slice of the pie. 12 wedges of pie, to mock the 12 Disciples of Christ. Lots of numerology in masonry. And it all stems from the twin pillars of the Temple of Solomon. Two pillars, like an 11 in appearance. Like the twin towers in NYC. Those things were built to be destroyed in a blood sacrifice. A giant eleven looming over the NYC skyline for decades. So sick.

Anyway, 999 out of 1000 masons just live out their lives doing 'good deeds,' but that 1 out of a thousand advances upward degree by degree. Last I read, King Juan Carlos of Spain was at 246, but that was a couple of years ago. The final degree is "The Architect," Lucifer. The goal of Luciferianism and masonry is to get closer to Lucifer.

And you don't need to believe in the mystical aspects of masonry to acknowledge the existence of those aspects. OTHER people believe in them, and that's the important thing. Go through one of GWBush's speeches about war and search for the word "sacrifice." He uses it a lot. He's a Luciferian, probably a mason, and all his killing is done as a sacrifice to Lucifer. And he didn't invent the practice. Look at the war memorials all over the western world...the word "sacrifice" carved in stone for us over and over and over. Rubbing our faces in it down through the generations. And the politicians' talk about "responsibility,"...that's a masonic thing. The upper level masons aren't talking about taking responsibility in the "sober, well-behaved citizen" sense of the word, they're acknowledging their evil deeds. It's kind of like the way American Indians used to go into battle to count coup. They'd get close to an enemy and just touch him, then later they'd tally up how many they COULD have killed. That's what Bush and Blair mean when they're talking about "responsibility." They're committing blood sacrifices and atrocities left and right, then they ADMIT they are "sacrificing" humans while they talk about "taking responsibility". Blatant admissions of supreme wickedness, spoken straight into camera. But by now we've been so immersed in masonry and Luciferianism that we don't even twitch now when they hit us over the head with it. And that freakin' pyramid on the dollar bill...

Harry Truman was a "33rd degree" mason. 33 is just the point at which the public loses sight of your masonic career. No telling what rank he really achieved. All I know is he could've bombed any two points in Japan...military or civilian...but he chose two civilian targets, and they just happened to be the cities with the largest Christian populations. Lucifer hates Christians.

Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 11:06 PM

I figured you'd be here, "Guest". Interesting stuff. I have a question for you. Are you doing much reading these days at Infowars.com (site run by Alex Jones in Texas)?

I'm asking this with no ulterior motive. I'd just like to know if you're familiar with that site and if so, what you think of it?

I am also of the opinion that most masons are harmless and well-intentioned people, but the few at the top are anything but harmless...and they are among the richest and most powerful people on this planet.

If the people at the top in the present administration hate Christians, as you say, would it not be tremendously ironical that they are encouraging and using the most primitive forms of reactionary Christianity to strengthen and secure their position of power?

It wouldn't be the first time that sort of thing has been done, would it? You use some of the sheep (those most easily controlled and manipulated) to imprison and kill the other sheep for you.

Or as Boss Tweed said in the movie "Gangs of New York"..."You can always use one half of the poor to kill the other half for you."

Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST,282RA
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 11:09 PM

Prince Hall was an 18th century black man in the colonies who was indoctrinated into a British lodge, I believe. He later founded a lodge of his own in the colonies. For awhile, his lodge was one of the few, if not the only one, open to black men. Today, from what I understand, there are more black Masons in the standard lodges than in Prince Hall, which I believe still exists. I don't think Prince Hall masonry is considered irregular although it might be.

Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 11:16 PM

Hmmm. I wonder if Colin Powell is a mason...

Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 11:37 PM

Why, look at what happened to me!

Lesbian?