BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Musket smiling
Date: 23 Oct 13 - 04:33 AM

Did you research that before saying conclusively it is 600 Keith?

I am beginning to get this religion lark. Keith wading in brought it home to me.

On the one hand we have pete who ignores any evidence or supposition that conflicts with the bible. On the other hand we have Keith who ignores any evidence or supposition that conflicts with Keith. Both carry out their task in the name of Christianity. Problem is, neither would recognise each other's. (I still reckon pete gets the role of religion more than Keith. That the role is superfluous in the c21 is neither here nor there.)

I reckon I could latch onto this religion lark after all. Mind you, to be fair, it isn't a Christian trait nor indeed a religious trait. Akenhateon claims to be neither yet subjective interpretation of data to support a view that could never be respected nor believed is his party piece.

Ok.. Back to the drawing board.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,the artist formally known as concerened
Date: 23 Oct 13 - 05:54 AM

Sigh........................ I see the fraud shaw is now plagiarising my method of complimenting the pseuds on this site....away, you centrist, ginger pussy, cake-eating telegraph reading copyist - and you call me..? Mind he unlike me he is still talking shite.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 23 Oct 13 - 06:39 AM

" ...you centrist, ginger pussy, cake-eating telegraph reading copyist ... "

Calling someone a "cake-eating telegraph reading copyist" is really beyond the pale! Shame on you, 'concerened'! You know you really are a bum inhabitant ginger cake (it takes one to know one)!!

"Mind he unlike me he is still talking shite."

Uuuuummmm??!! I think that you might like to review that sentence, 'concerened', and adjust your conclusion accordingly.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Musket wondering
Date: 23 Oct 13 - 07:20 AM

Would that be geographically anywhere near the ginger nuts?

Rather partial to ginger nuts. Mrs Musket occasionally makes a batch. Far better than the McVities version, although my dog eats either just as quickly if you leave them in mouth reach. Whilst counting your fingers, it's your fault for waving them within three miles of a greyhound cum thief.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Stu
Date: 23 Oct 13 - 08:01 AM

"theres no point in me expanding on that now as it will be easier to do that when I know where this is leading."

Now that's not fair Pete; I've sat here and typed out detailed replies to the points you've raised in your emails in the spirit of debate, and you're totally ducking two questions I've asked you.

"you can not experiment on the past. you can only interpret the data. there are numerous examples of changing analysis of such data by evolutionists. that's a good thing ,you will say, but it also demonstrates that origins research is far from certain, unlike proper science where repeatable, testable ,observation can give accurate conclusions."

OK, lots wrong here. I really don't think you know what science is Pete. You can't experiment on the past by sticking a bit of it in a test tube and tipping gloop on it to see what happens, but experimental science is a far more complex activity than mixing stuff up in the lab.

It certainly is possible to test evolutionary theory, for example by close examination of the fossil record to see how species change over time and how speciation occurs. The debate about how this occurs is ongoing but the debate is vigorous (and fascinating) and based on excellent, repeatable, observable and testable science. Many disciplines are needed to make sense of the rock record but we've been at it for couple of hundred years now and a consensus is emerging. The idea that any of the natural and earth sciences are not 'proper science' is risible and without any foundation.

Data analysis will change over time. Science is not in stasis at any point in time and revisiting data with new techniques to test theories is fundamental to research. Just as it should be.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,the artist forsmelly known as concerened
Date: 23 Oct 13 - 08:07 AM

You misplace two goddamn commas and the grammar police are at yer

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Musket baying at the moon
Date: 23 Oct 13 - 08:14 AM

Aye, and in your case, they have a green van and white coats.....

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Oct 13 - 08:35 AM

You misplace two goddamn commas

Two, conc? Only two? I think you have already proved conclusively that you cannot write. You are going a long way towards proving you cannot count either.

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 23 Oct 13 - 09:23 AM

Hope it's not a GINGER "greyhound cum thief", Musket!

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Musket evolving slowly
Date: 23 Oct 13 - 10:31 AM

No Scottish blood in him to my knowledge. Mind you, he was born in a racing kennels in Kilkenny. Mmmm... possible celtic throwback.

For the record he is black with white belly and tail end and a few flecks of white on his back, looking like he confused a pot of white paint with a ginger nut.

Regarding this thread. He summed up religion for me a few hundred posts back by trying to lick balls he no longer has.

Faith is a wondrous thing indeedy.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Oct 13 - 01:42 PM

Just noticed on post dated 23 Oct 13 - 08:07 AM. You know, the one complaining of the grammar police.

,the artist forsmelly known as concerened

Freudian slip anyone?

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Oct 13 - 02:47 PM

What's a ginger pussy cake? Mmmm...

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 23 Oct 13 - 03:40 PM

""So shaw, you are part of milliblands ginger pussy fence sitting party are you? mind I should have known that.""

All those fictitious degrees, qualifications and skills, and the prat can't even remember who he was trying to slag off.

What a prize berk!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 23 Oct 13 - 03:51 PM

ok stu, I did mean to explain a little more, but I was on my way out, though I did also wonder if a too quick answer would then require me to explain more fully, and I be charged with backpeddling.
I do believe the bible is Gods word to us. it was given in ancient times and in places needs interpreting, but not to the point of being unintelligible to the average person of any period.
the charge has been made that because it recounts immoral events [lots daughters has been cited a few times, for example] that this negates the book ,and speaks against its divine authorship.
rather it is a faithful account of unflattering wrongs of even it's heroes.
I,m sure much more could be said, but I will wait to see where it's leading.
I reckon that deep time and biological dogma is just as entrenched as the YEC position. I guess your position has an advantage in being so flexible, as every time a something overturns a previous supposed evidence of evolution, the story just gets adjusted and the evolutionists congratulate themselves on how nothing is fixed - except of course their commitment to deep,evolutionary time.
"fossil record..." to the Darwinist it is the evidence for evolution of creatures from bugs to biologists.
to the creationist, the order of burial, with sometimes creatures mixed together as to be expected by a massive upheaval.
same evidence!.
...risible...I note it seems fine to diss the research of scientists if they are creationist!
"..consensus is emerging.." appeal to authority- or to quote Michael cricton   "historically, the claim of consensus has been the first refuge of scoundrels, it is a way to avoid debate by claiming the matter is already settled.......in science consensus is irrelevant.what is relevant is reproducible results...."

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 24 Oct 13 - 03:08 AM

"I do believe the bible is Gods word to us. it was given in ancient times and in places needs interpreting, but not to the point of being unintelligible to the average person of any period."

So you religious fundamentalists are not absolutely certain about what the Bible means then, pete? But I thought that the question of its meaning was "already settled"? I also think that your little diversion into the Bible's recounting of "immoral" events is an example of your muddled thinking. The Bible is either an accurate historical record or its not - whether the events it recounts are immoral or not is, surely, irrelevant(?)

I'm also not sure that the Michael "cricton" quote is relevant here either. The scientific concensus concerns such 'broad-brush' aspects of nature as the age of the Universe and its various components and the age of the Earth and the various stages of its history etc., etc. The details are subject to constant revision - but that's how science works - all scientists live with uncertainty all of the time. The broad-brush concensus is based on millions of sophisticated and painstaking observations, made by thousands of very clever and talented people, over a long period of time; it's not based on a bunch of religious fanatics sat in armchairs proclaiming that eveything that they read in an old book represents the absolute truth ... subject to "interpretation" of course!

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,the artist forsmelly known as concerened
Date: 24 Oct 13 - 08:41 AM

Smart enough to have you and the rest of the nomarks going, wizzjet you prize phony.

I know you are nobody's fool, but maybe somebody will adopt you.

Gold star for the other gullible buffoon gnomet for spotting the deliberate mistake.I would ask how old you are but I know you cant count that high.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Oct 13 - 09:20 AM

Of course it was deliberate, Conc. What does puzzle me a little is how someone who has missed countless punctuation marks can get that down to 'a couple of commas' and then go on to say I cannot count! Your level of delusion appears to know no bounds and for that, I salute you. Well, I think it is a salute.

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Oct 13 - 11:16 AM

"fossil record..." to the Darwinist it is the evidence for evolution of creatures from bugs to biologists.

Well now, I'm-Mr-Pig-Ignorant-And-I'm-Bloody-Proud-Of-It, no it is not. Fossil evidence is just one piece of a huge jigsaw, a jigsaw that you would know about if only you'd ever bother to read "Origin". Even Darwin didn't know much about genetics and molecuar biology, but he knew a damn sight more than just the fossil record. Do continue to rattle out your uninformed drivel. I just try to make sure I haven't got a mouthful of coffee as I read your egregiously stupid posts.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Oct 13 - 11:18 AM

"Darwin" not "even Darwin". Grr.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 24 Oct 13 - 12:13 PM

so who told you ,shimrod, that every detail in the bible was clearly understood?
yes I agree that the morality of the account in the historical record is not relevant. I only mentioned it as I seem to recall you or musket trying that one. glad we agree on that much.
I note that you counter my point about consensus not being a good argument ,by appeal to more consensus!
"...reproducible results......"

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,the artist forsmeltingly noun as concerend
Date: 24 Oct 13 - 12:26 PM

Tut! Tut! Gmonehead.....You occasionally stumble over the truth, but you quickly pick yourself up and carry on as if nothing happened..and you do know what you can do with your fingers?..that is if they haven't already joined your thumb.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 24 Oct 13 - 12:43 PM

So what sophisticated and painstaking observations have your oxymoronic 'creationist scientists' made then, pete? How have they added to the sum of human knowledge? You do realise, don't you, that in the scientific world (or any other world, for that matter)only considering (or inventing?) data that fits your pre-conceptions is completely dishonest? If a real scientist (as opposed to a 'creationist' pretend one) were to do that he/she would be drummed out of his/her professional society. Presumably, though, a 'creationist scientist' would get EXTRA prayers and Bible classes (yum!).

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Oct 13 - 06:15 PM

Well, Conc. You have got me there. Once more your mighty intellect has me stumped. Just carry on imagining your wonderful wit and repartee has everyone on here enthralled. I wonder what we did without you.

BTW, just which college did you attend for your double first? I have grandchildren to educate and I need to make sure they do not fall into the same hole.

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 24 Oct 13 - 06:16 PM

tell you what, shimrod. you tell me what benefit the evolutionary story has made to actual beneficial science, except to add a Darwinist gloss to what did not need Darwin at all.
you got awhile as I is away most of coming week.
you give me examples and I will offer instances of scientists believing in creation who have developed science.
in the meantime, I remind you that evolutionary belief has hindered science , by presupposing junk dna and vestigial organs, not to mention not bothering to examine Piltdown for 40 yr because of Darwinist bias.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Oct 13 - 07:34 PM

so who told you ,shimrod, that every detail in the bible was clearly understood?

Hmm. Well, if not, how come it's possible for you to take it literally? Because you're a fool?


in the meantime, I remind you that evolutionary belief has hindered science , by presupposing junk dna and vestigial organs, not to mention not bothering to examine Piltdown for 40 yr because of Darwinist bias.

Have another cask of beer, dear boy.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Musket evolving slowly
Date: 25 Oct 13 - 01:26 AM

I suppose you can believe in creationist nonsense and scientifically develop a new type of toothbrush. ...

The point pete misses, inadvertently or purposely, is that whilst many scientific discoveries have been by people with religious beliefs, although not just the Bible version of belief, it can also be said that their outcome may not have contradicted the superstition of the day.

Newton clung to absolute position rather than the relative position of existence that his own research was telling him. Didn't want to contradict Scripture but to be fair, his output didn't really have to. His calculations could exist in an imaginary god created world as described by the church.

Galileo however started to see the cracks and ended up arguing for his life. Literally. ....

Einstein threw a few crumbs in order to keep his Jewish credentials intact. The irony of his comments were wonderfully paid tribute to by Hawkins in the very last sentence of his brief history, knowing the mind of God.

God however didn't appear in the research nor conclusions of a single scientific advance. Never has and never shall.

Unless you accept the Saudi cleric as a scientist who said the other month that if women are allowed to drive cars they will fail in child birth. That's religious science in a nutshell. ........

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 25 Oct 13 - 03:03 AM

"God however didn't appear in the research nor conclusions of a single scientific advance. Never has and never shall."

That's the truth, Musket. And that's the real reason why the crazed fundamentalists so desperately attempt to refute the findings of modern science. Every new data point erodes the hold that religion has on the minds of the credulous and destroys any influence that the church has left. I suspect that the established church has known this for several generations but the fundamentalists can't accept it. The established church now knows, and generally accepts, its place in society whereas the megalomaniac fundamentalists just want MORE POWER and blame the lack of it on science.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Stu
Date: 25 Oct 13 - 06:00 AM

"it was given in ancient times and in places needs interpreting"

Do you mean literally or philosophically? Are you saying we need to weed out some of the more distasteful bits (such as stoning for cussing your parents) as they are not relevant?

"I reckon that deep time and biological dogma is just as entrenched as the YEC position"

Wrong. Here's the thing: if as a scientist we are found to be wrong, we say "righto!", assimilate the new information and move on. That's science. Dogma is challenged (it invites itself to be challenged and scientists have little time for it). As researchers we are all prepared to admit we don't know it all, or have all the answers. We're learning and discovering the truth bit by bit.


"I remind you that evolutionary belief has hindered science , by presupposing junk dna and vestigial organs"

What? This isn't even a sentence let alone a cohesive argument. What have you got against vestigal organs?


"you tell me what benefit the evolutionary story has made to actual beneficial science"

Bloody hell. What is "beneficial science"? If you're asking what contribution the study of evolution has made to our lives then where to start? Of course, the study of evolution is carried out by any number of scientific disciplines, and some of these (such as molecular biology) feed back into many important areas, such as medicine and help us understand how (for example) the role of certain genes during the development of an embryo; this is a relly quite fascinating area to study, and it's worth reading up on.

Evolution itself tells us lots about how species react to various environmental factors, and they help us understand everything from biodiversity to trophic cascades, to extinction events (such as the one we as a race are causing now). This has relevance for areas such as conservation and the study of species populations.

From an economic point of view, palaeontology and geology are massively important. Who do you think finds the raw materials for the computer you're using, for the petrol that runs your car etc? Without a firm understanding of evolution geologists wouldn't be able to date the rocks they are examining, or correlate facies across wide areas of deposition as they often rely on zone fossils to orient themselves in the geological record.

So the idea that "evolutionary belief" has hindered science is, if I may put it rather bluntly, complete and utter bollocks, and a statement that is without any foundation. It's worth reminding you Pete that your belief in creation happening exactly as it says in the bible is an extremist view, and many scientists of faith are quite happy studying evolution.


"you give me examples and I will offer instances of scientists believing in creation who have developed science."

There y'go. Now let's see those examples.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: TheSnail
Date: 26 Oct 13 - 08:30 AM

Perhaps I'd better answer Steve Shaw's question before this thread drops off the bottom

Do tell us if you're not completely certain that evolution happens.

No, I am not completely certain that evolution happens because I take a scientific view of the world, not a pseudo-religious one. Science doesn't do "completely certain". I can't agree with "Evolution is true" because, as others on this thread have pointed out, science doesn't do absolute truth.

Part of the problem is that you are rather flexible in your use of the word evolution. Frequently you have used it interchangeably with Darwin's Theory of The Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection while lambasting others (well, me) for doing the same. No real worry, everybody does that. "The Theory of Evolution" is generally taken as a shorthand for Darwin's theory.

You have also referred to it as a "concept". I think I'd go along with that.

Darwin refers to "species undergo modification, and that the existing forms of life are the descendants by true generation of pre-existing forms.". Sounds like a definition of "evolution" to me. (Does Darwin ever use the word?) It says nothing about the reasons for those modifications, just that it happens. Does that do it for you?
As best as I can understand, the point you are trying to make is that it is a natural phenomenon like the sun, moon or stars or gravity or, indeed, you having a shit. There for you to see if you care to look. The trouble is Darwin doesn't seem to agree. Here is the fuller context for that quote -

I will give here a brief sketch of the progress of opinion on the Origin of Species. Until recently the great majority of naturalists believed that species were immutable productions, and had been separately created. This view has been ably maintained by many authors. Some few naturalists, on the other hand, have believed that species undergo modification, and that the existing forms of life are the descendants by true generation of pre-existing forms.

(Opening lines of "AN HISTORICAL SKETCH". Page 53 in the Penguin Classics edition of Origin of Species.)

It seems that Darwin does not agree with you. It is not something obvious and, in the mid-nineteenth century, a new and revolutionary idea not widely held. He then spends several pages presenting the case, not from scientific logic but by quoting the works of others. This is not his idea, but the starting point for his theory which is an explanation of what drives that process - Natural Selection.

So, Steve, if you think you know better than Darwin, carry on shouting "Evolution is true!" to the rafters.

Now do go along and shove your philosophical carpings where the sun don't shine, dear boy.

Sigh. I really was hoping for some response from you to Stu's remarks a while ago -

what is important is understanding what science is and how it works, and you don't need to be a scientist to know that. You do have to get off your arse do some work though to familiarise yourself with the philosophies and methodologies that make 'science' what it is, and explains how it's come to be practiced as it is and how it changes with time.

By brushing aside "philosophical carpings", you are underming Stu's case against pete. Whose side are you on?

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 26 Oct 13 - 10:22 AM

Most posters to this thread do not seem to be interested in science at all, but for casual readers who are, a little remark may not go amiss:

Evolution theory in its present form is based on genetics, discovered after Darwin's time. Its foundational theorems are not a bit worse established than any other branch of science. Such theorems are formulated and tested without reference to a particular time ("deep" or not), thus they can be applied to the past, the future, and other countries etc. with equal degree of certainty. In other words, if they do not apply to the past, they do not apply at all. (To make things even more complicated, the very notion of time has been modified in recent decades, but not in a way that affects paleontology.)

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Oct 13 - 10:34 AM

The more we know about the origins of the universe the less we understand it.

As a species, we will be extinct long before anyone can prove or even comprehend the "creation".
Isn't it all a gigantic waste of time? Let people believe what they wish, they are as likely to be right as any scientist?

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 26 Oct 13 - 11:30 AM

akenaton,

Isn't it all a gigantic waste of time?

Posting to Mudcat in order to convince the world is largely a waste of time. (There are other benefits, though.) Scientific research, including humanities and philosophy, and considering what to teach at schools, are among the best investments of time imaginable. Like any investment, we must not forget to harvest the results.

Let people believe what they wish, they are as likely to be right as any scientist?

We cannot prevent people from believing what they wish, but there are conflicts which need arguing. This thread - fortunately not really important - is an example of how it should not be done. If we define a scientist as someone who has passed an M.Sc. exam, this does not imply being "right" on any subject whatsoever - but dodging all studying does not help either.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Musket sans logic
Date: 26 Oct 13 - 12:56 PM

Grishka reckons nobody on this thread is interested in science. True, but don't include the odd science teacher and at least one physics PhD.

The more we know about the origins of the universe, the less Akenhateon understands it. Yep, can't argue with that.

Mind you, the shoe in for science tends to be when dismissing creationism and associated fantasy when reality is under discussion.

Although, as we see on the Christian persecution thread, point out attempts to put religion in a privileged position and you are ganged up on for being boorish.

Quite.

Science as a concept does help enlightenment in general, as well as the advancements in technology and understanding. And some of us, some not too far from this post in fact, would benefit from a dose of enlightenment, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Oct 13 - 08:37 PM

The more we know about the origins of the universe the less we understand it.

Utterly brainless bollocks.

Now, Snailie One. Evolution happens. Are you a fool? I ask because only a fool would deny that black is black, that Beethoven wrote Beethoven's Fifth, that the Pope is a Catholic, that one-legged ducks swim in circles and that evolution happens. Do read my harmonica-swollen lips, dear boy/girl (I'm a little confused because not only do I know that snails ain't fussy about what gender they are but also that I've just come back from seeing Matthew Bourne's Swan Lake). The existence of evolution is no more science than is the existence of my left testicle (under threat if my wife ever reads this thread). Evolution existed for billions of years before the first sentient being ever recognised it as such. Science requires the workings of the human mind. The explanation of evolution, as articulated by said human mind, is where the science comes in. If you doubt that evolution takes place, do join pete and his brainless cohort in the silly corner. Otherwise, do try to make the distinction between self-evident reality (not science) and the human interpretation of it (science). Now Popper off and enjoy yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Oct 13 - 06:02 AM

"Utterly brainless bollocks"?

OK......We are asked to believe that there was this big bang......?.....?.....?....not exactly convincing, is it?

But I would hesitate to label your beliefs as "utterly brainless bollocks. Do you think you could manage an apology Steve?

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Musket popping up here too
Date: 27 Oct 13 - 06:11 AM

If worms could apologise, we'd all go deaf from the noise.

Here, worm! Do you want to add Steve to the list you just put me on, asking moderators to let you spew your filth in peace?

Perhaps the moderators see reason as a moderator in its own right?

(He probably just read the hilarious article Stephen Fry referred to on the telly the other week, where an American Tea Party evangelist pointed out that the Big Bang is a conspiracy theory, as many cosmologists and astrophysicists are, wait for it..... Gay!)

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Oct 13 - 06:28 AM

I am sure you are quite incapable of apology under any circumstances Ian.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Oct 13 - 08:09 AM

Thanks Grishka....You seem to be a bit of a philosopher yourself :0)

It's nice to talk to people who know how to conduct themselves in debate. I understand that this is an extremely complicated issue and that this thread is only a silly distraction.....I think that "faith" has like many other concepts, become "politicised", as can be observed by the rancour shown by some posters here.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,the artist formally known as concerened
Date: 27 Oct 13 - 09:28 AM

The usual pearls of wisdom abounding again.

After nearly 1000 posts what have you collection of soot juggling frauds come up with?:

"The more we know about the origins of the universe the less we understand it"

Well get out my box of paints and colour me tickled pink.

I think you lot have pretty well proved that with your inane pseudo intellectual comments


On top of the usual buffoonery I see shaw is trying to cover his back and baffle? us all with his amusing attempt to be academic..aint you realised phony, no one is interested in your semi digested crap, away back to the thumb up bum game

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 27 Oct 13 - 11:03 AM

"OK......We are asked to believe that there was this big bang......?.....?.....?....not exactly convincing, is it?"

We are NOT asked to BELIEVE anything! As I understand it, a study of the cosmic microwave background radiation leads scientists to hypothesise that the Universe originated from a point source. Whether you think that that concept is credible or incredible is irrelevant - a 'Big Bang' is the best explanation so far.

You remind me of pete, Akenaton. He too confused uninformed 'belief' with scientific evidence and probability.

Be careful, "concerened", if Steve plays the "thumb up bum game" he might damage his "bum inhabitant ginger cake" - and you wouldn't want that on your conscience, would you?

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Musket sans reality
Date: 27 Oct 13 - 11:46 AM

"I am sure you are quite incapable of apology under any circumstances Ian."

I assume he means Musket.

Actually, the worm is wrong. I would apologise to any gay person who asked if Mudcat is a website worth looking at. Sure, it is, but the moderators don't censor homophobia and hate in the way UK law expects. Ok, the servers aren't in The UK, but all the same, I would worry if anybody from a whole set of society that is openly demonised on Mudcat happened to chance upon one of the more odious posts from one of the more odious specimen.

Mind you, in an effort to lighten up, I can put that slightly to one side and address Akenhateon's view of science.

{chortle} There comes a time when the only avenue left is to point and laugh.... Utterly brainless bollocks. Wish I'd have thought of that retort. Witty, perceptive, accurate and well aimed.

Being a co Messiah certainly allows you to weigh people up......

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Oct 13 - 04:18 PM

Different thread, same M.O. from Ian.

m: akenaton - PM
Date: 27 Oct 13 - 06:17 AM

I never really believed in "trolls" 'till you arrived here Ian, it is often used wrongly to label folks who's opinions do not fit in with the predominant views of the forum members.

Your incessant use of name calling and aggressive personal comments when you seem to have no interest in addressing the point under discussion, mark you down as the genuine article.

This behaviour persists on almost every message you post...against numerous members.....why you have not been kicked off these pages, or at least warned about your posting "style" is beyond me.
You are a wrecker of discussion(I think intentionally) and as such, you are a menace to this particular community.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,the artist forsmeltingly noun as concerend
Date: 27 Oct 13 - 05:00 PM

here!here!!

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Oct 13 - 05:56 PM

OK......We are asked to believe that there was this big bang......?.....?.....?....not exactly convincing, is it?

But I would hesitate to label your beliefs as "utterly brainless bollocks. Do you think you could manage an apology Steve?

Nobody's asking you to believe anything. I don't believe in the Big Bang. I seek out the science of the bloody thing, apply what limited intellect I possess to it, and come to a provisional conclusion. My provisional conclusion is that that there is a lot of convincing evidence for the Big Bang and very little evidence for any proposed alternative. Belief don't come into it. My convictions may well be bollocks but they are not brainless bollocks because, pathetic though my tiny brain may be, I have at least applied it to the conundrum in question. Which is a damn sight more than can be said for your utterly brainless, predigested, lame, cliche-ridden, useless, senseless and dismal statement that "the more we know about the origins of the universe the less we understand it". Do allow me to suggest a reconstruction, thus: "The more we know about the origins of the universe the more we understand it". There. Now I think you owe an apology. Not to me, for I give not a flying shite, but to the world in general for being such a complete arse.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Oct 13 - 06:01 PM

here!here!!

There there!

Diddums!

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Oct 13 - 06:11 PM

I think he may have meant 'hear, hear' Messiah S but that fine education has let him down once again. Still, he is at least mixing in the right circles now.

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Oct 13 - 06:23 PM

Well Steve, I see you have assimilated some of the characteristics of your accomplice Ian....please except my condolences.

I have been reading and doing some online research into the origins of the universe and find the sheer enormity of the thing is beyond perception. Some scientists believe that the universe may go on for ever?.....how does one come to terms with such a concept; and more importantly what is the benefit to humanity...which will in all probability be extinct in a few hundred years, of pondering the imponderable?

At least "faith" is more closely related to how we live the remainder of our time on this planet and serves a useful purpose in providing a much needed moral and social compass to humanity.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Oct 13 - 07:01 PM

Moderators!!....Are you listening? Do you notice something about these threads? How some of us try to address the issues which come up during the discussion, while others concentrate on dishing out insults and personal attacks?

Jeri has admitted to being a moderator and someone has suggested that SRS is also one.....excuse me, but why are they not moderating?

Nigel has made the point about multiple guest names, many others have complained, or even left the forum, because of the aggressive/abusive posting.

Could you please explain why these 2 or 3 people are being allowed to destroy this forum?

[Destroy? Hardly! Moderation takes time- volunteers reading all threads that could be moderated and deciding exactly which posts go over the line, and then deleting those posts without destroying contunity goes beyond our lack-of-pay grade. It has been tried- it only generated more debate and complaints and created MORE threads and posts that needed to be edited. Occasionally, a seriously offensive post is edited, but so far, the only real way to control those who can't control their own bad behavior is to --- ignore. Not totally effective, but tempting them by arguing with them in kind is like a dare. Acrimonious bickering and insults seem to be a sort of 'hobby' to some--- especially in the UK. No one is ever willing to back down, even to make a good point in a quiet way. It is hard for some of us to understand. We simply don't KNOW how to 'moderate' among those who refuse to debate civilly.]

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Oct 13 - 09:06 PM

I have no accomplices on this forum. I am, fiercely, an individual. Yes, certain persons occasionally seem to post with a similar sentiment to mine and I respond to them accordingly. I think I can say in all honesty that Musket and I (I could be wrong, but I forget) haven't corresponded privately in any conspiratorial or, indeed, any other fashion (oh shit, or did we once privately banter about your Sheff Wed delusion, Musket?). So, Hate One, don't be such an arse. I don't have a clue who your friends are here and you don't have a clue who mine are (I'll let you into a secret - I don't really have any. Any relationship I have in the unreal world of this forum is one hundred per cent up here for all to see). You are not only a hateful, prejudiced, homophobic and ignorant man - you are neurotic to boot, as your last few posts have abundantly revealed. One might advise you to get a life.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Musket evolving slowly
Date: 28 Oct 13 - 02:23 AM

Ear Ear. Mouth Mouth.

Two aspects of social intercourse lacking in the la la land of the interweb thingy.

Mind you, worms appear to get their point across. Pity they are nasty little bugger. (Except the hard working industrious ones converting my composters. Got four wheelbarrow loads from two composters yesterday. Quite impressive.)

The moderators are right. Here in The UK it almost seems (in the absence of facts to back it up) that decent normal people are less likely to let bigotry and odious comments go unchallenged. Don't know if that is the case but to be fair to the mods, it seems that way.

Anyway, how would I know my co Messiah? He plays a gob iron for starters and mummy always told me to give them a wider berth than banjoists even.. plus his football affiliations are somewhat skewed. He may be a Messiah but he knows bugger all about footie. My lad lives in the 'pool and never loses a footie argument in the pub (allegedly. )

Plus we have a built in moderator on this thread. An associated gnome who gets people weighed up fast and accurately.

Must dash. Reality calls.