BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Dec 13 - 10:23 AM

Nah he did right 8) bit blowy here cap'n so we're manning the lifeboats.Have fun.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Dec 13 - 10:25 AM

Slightly deranged? SLIGHTLY? I'll have you know that I am completely deranged. Unless by slight you mean stature of course but I suspect such a pun is beyond the scope of someone with such a deep and meaningful understanding of the world...

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,the troll formally known as the troll concer
Date: 05 Dec 13 - 11:00 AM

Beyond the scope when I wrote it!!When using slightly in describing you it should of course be slight: , your stature, your head set, your brain, your morals, trousers, method of eating asparagus and your general woosy, ginger cake inhabited, centrist Crayola demeanor!!

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Dec 13 - 01:10 PM

I think even our Conc will get this :-)

List of scientists who became creationists

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Dec 13 - 01:34 PM

Mr. Shaw. And others,

There is such a thing as rational doubt. And room for speculation about things that one may have previously thought were impossible.

I do not believe in the kind of Supreme Being that some people seem to believe in:   the powerfully built, bearded old man dressed in a bed sheet who keeps a careful ledger of who's naughty and who's nice, hurls thunderbolts at the naughty ones, and marks the fall of every sparrow. That, as I see it, is a very limited view of a postulated entity that could have created the entire universe. Basically, it reduces the concept of a "Supreme Being" to that of a mere wizard.

But I could be wrong.

If you have ever read any of the books by Michio Kaku, professor of theoretical physics at City University of New York, with a mind open to expansion and speculation, one may cease to be so rock-solid certain of what one knows about the nature of Life, the Universe, and Everything. Professor Kaku has written such books as Hyperspace, Parallel Worlds, Physics of the Impossible, and several other similar books.

I am not going to try to give a synopsis of his works, but he speculates—and often provides compelling arguments—for a number of things that are very strange about the universe—and the possible—probable—existence of other universes—that should cause one to wonder about a number of things and not be so bloody certain about other things that one might have taken as certainties.

He is in no way a theologian and I don't know what his religious beliefs are, if any. He does not deal with religious concepts. But some of his speculations, with supporting evidence or arguments, can cause one to expand one's mind a bit and consider some things in a whole new light that one might have simply written off as impossible or mere superstition.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 05 Dec 13 - 01:43 PM

interesting bit of latest creation mag.-
laura Keynes, gt,gt,gt,grandaughter of Darwin now embraces a passionate catholic faith. the dr of philosophy credits dawkins and co as driving her away from atheism, because of the anger,pride and contempt for others she discerned.
"I expected to be moved from agnosticism to atheism by their arguments, but after reading on both sides of the debate, I couldn't dismiss a compelling intellectual case for faith"

so carry on your abusive outbursts ,gents, you never know what you might achieve!

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Dec 13 - 02:03 PM

Arthur C. Clarke's Three Laws:

1. When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.

2. The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.

3. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,musket again
Date: 05 Dec 13 - 03:35 PM

Just re read the updated Clarke biography. His laws are pertinent to this thread Don. The original creationist thread had me quote them too.

Mind you, he had an ego and celebrated the fact. Carl Sagan said he had some cheek with his first law. . The laws of course get better the more we understand about quantum mechanics. I say we.   I know far less than some around here would have us believe they understand.

By the way Don. You are pushing on an open door. Neither Co Messiah nor indeed the associated gnome profess that there is no god. Just that it is in the flying teapot category.

Mind you, with starry pete back in the thread, a welcome discourse on dinosaurs and Darwin is about to start.

Buy popcorn and enjoy.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Dec 13 - 04:12 PM

But I could be wrong.

Yeah, me too, Don. Not once have I ever said that I'm certain that there is no God. I tend to leave the certainty to those deluded souls who'll accept stuff without evidence that someone has passed down to them. Our Father who art in heaven. I mean, how much more certain than that can you get? How great thou art.

The chanted, brainless prayers wouldn't sound as good though, would they. Our Father, who we think might be in a place we think might exist called heaven... How great thou wouldst be if thou existeth, which we think, on balance, that you may just...

Nah. Way too humble...

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Dec 13 - 04:17 PM



There is no intellectual case for faith. There is an intellectual case for gleaning and considering evidence. Faith may be very nice but to say there's an intellectual case for it is rather like saying that atheism is a religion.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Dec 13 - 04:43 PM

Let us do a thought experiment.

Let us suppose you bought a large aquarium for your living room. You fill it with the usual paraphernalia, of course: a little aquatic shrubbery, the little castle, gravel and rocks and sea shells lining the bottom. Water, of course, and a bubbling water aerator.

And, of course, a variety of tropical fish.

Now, after the fish have been there long enough to have built their own societies and various institutions—how may they begin to regard YOU, whom they have never actually seen, but who has Created the Universe in which they live?

Although they try, they have no real understanding of Who or What You are, or what you nature and intent is.

But you DO exist!

Think on it.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 05 Dec 13 - 05:06 PM

well , laura Keynes obviously thought there is such a thing, and of course I agree with her. and with a little attention to the quote, you will observe that it is not a blind unreasoned faith but a reasonable faith adopted after examining the arguments.
atheism, on the other hand is an unreasonable faith whose professors prefer to believe concepts that, so far, are demonstrably impossible at worst and fantastic at best.
the definitions of a religion include the enthusiastic adoption of a position. this may or may not include a deity. buddhism and the new atheism are examples of the latter.
mock and rage on - someone else might move toward a reasonable faith!

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Dec 13 - 06:09 PM

. . . Poor bewildered guppy. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Dec 13 - 09:27 PM

Yeah, pete babe, you've said some dense things in your time but you're beginning to sound a bit like Eric Cantona: "When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea. Thank you very much." Yeah, Eric.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,musket again
Date: 06 Dec 13 - 03:13 AM

Three weeks ago, a chemical reaction started in my fish tank which, as we were away for the weekend, resulted in losing the lot.

It wasn't the will of this God let me tell you!

The thought experiment Don refers to used to be put forward in excellent style in The Perishers newspaper comic strip. Once a year during August saw the Perishers gang on holiday and old Boot the dog going back to the rock pool with the crabs in it. The crabs for their part used to prepare for the big hairy face peering each year from the sky and worship it. The crab who had sussed it was always August was the de facto leader of the crabs as his predictions made other crabs think he knew the will of God so best let him be the boss in case the God got upset.

Religion in a strip.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 07 Dec 13 - 07:12 PM

talking of predictions,- the article on creation.com today was about mercury [the planet] seems close inspection from the space probes did not match up with evolutionary, deep time expectations. of course some kind of rescue plan to explain failed prediction emerged, but decades previously creationist dr russ humphriess developed a model which predicted almost exactly what was found as regards magnetic field. a model using bible information as the starting point.
I suppose you would think him, poor, bewildered, dense.......

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Dec 13 - 08:26 PM

I suppose I would think you poor, bewildered, dense, if you think that any evolutionary principle could be applied to Mercury. Actually, I don't even need that qualification in order to think it. To know it even.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 08 Dec 13 - 03:25 AM

Don't worry. We have at least one pedant who will lazily google pete's weird waffle and call anyone a liar who disagrees with the first hit he puts a link to...

We have another who will say he likes mercury but Uranus is a deviant pevert.

Creation.com eh? Personally, I prefer the website with a repeating video of a seal spinning round in the water to music. I can watch it for hours....

Anyway, I have found an old Perishers year book and when I return home this evening, I intend to read it. Might even look at the pictures.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,the troll formally known as the troll concer
Date: 08 Dec 13 - 10:41 AM

Let us do a fraud experiment................take wizzjet jerk the sailio, shaw, gnomyo, Herr kieth@hatefilled dot com. and the rest of the mudcat dysfunctional muppets...and follow these instructions:

1. form a circle,
2. take a large handful of crayons
3. put large shit eating grin on your visage
4. dip crayons in fish paste
5. one by one place crayons in the round brown
6.repeat carefully " i am a centrist posing cake eating ginger cake inhabitant no nothing "
7.keep in that position until I tell you to stop

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 08 Dec 13 - 12:57 PM

...a bit short on intelligent responses so far, despite the qualifications of the usual suspects...

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Dec 13 - 01:25 PM

One day they won't look so bloody smug Pete.....:0)

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Dec 13 - 01:38 PM

Okay, pete, let's cut to the chase here:   Exactly what—and where in the Bible—is this "Biblical information" that allows one to make predictions about planetary magnetic fields? ANY planet, but in this case, specifically Mercury?

Careful now! I know the Bible pretty well, and in addition to being an astronomy and cosmology buff since I was a youngster, I've taken several astronomy courses (even spent time in an actual observatory with my eye affixed to the telescope), and I have a whole shelf of books on the subject.

I expect some specific answers.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Dec 13 - 02:11 PM

For one simple thing, there is no LIFE on Mercury. There is almost no atmosphere on Mecury, and what atmosphere there is would be poisonous to all known life forms. Alse, the surface temperature of Mercury ranges from a high of 800 degrees Fahrenheit to a low of 279 below Fahrenheit.

Evolution CAN'T take place where there is no life. And although Mercury resembles our moon and is about one-third larger, it is even less hospitable to life than the moon.

So—what IS this Biblical data, and how was it derived by early sages?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Dec 13 - 02:34 PM

It is to do with the age of the Solar System.
Evolution requires billions, creation requires thousands.
Pete's source believe they are challenging that.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Dec 13 - 02:37 PM

Also of course we believe the solar system itself has evolved from an original nebula, while creationists believe it was created just as it is now.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 Dec 13 - 03:33 PM

Pete's source believe they are challenging that.

Pete's source - and pete as well - believe all manner of preposterous & ridiculous shit.

So what?

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Dec 13 - 03:50 PM

Astronomer Fred Whipple formulated the "Whipple Dust Cloud Theory," which describes, not only the formation of stars, but the formation of planetary systems as well—and even the characteristics of the planets themselves. It predicted the existence of the Oort cloud, comets, and all sorts of debris left over from the Creation--by Natural Forces obeying physical laws. The prediction was made before the discovery of the existence of the Oort cloud.

And it also predicts what we have since discovered to be true, with the advent of the Hubble telescope:   that it is unusual for a star to exist without having at least a few planets orbiting it.

Considering the "billions and billions" of worlds existing in the known Universe, the possibility of life on other worlds becomes almost a certainty.

How does pete's Bible explain that?

No, if all of this were created by some sort of Supreme Being, then I'm afraid pete's God, who made the earth a mere 6,000 years ago and had to personally create all the creatures thereon, is relegated to the category of a mere Wizard with a wand and a pointy hat.

Abandoning the limited concept of Creationism leaves religion open to worshipping a really Supreme Being.

Much more to say on the subject, but I have guests coming right now. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,A.Coward
Date: 08 Dec 13 - 04:30 PM

The Dialectic Don has it in hand Greg.By far the best way to go if interested doncha fink.Trouble Pete has imo he has brought one slippery rug and stood on it,or maybe not who knows, he may have carpets.Imo he needs to show an objective;method, and a demonstrable pattern/process a body of evidence and his conclusions.Help here if i have missed something.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,musket drooling
Date: 08 Dec 13 - 04:46 PM

If you expect a reasonable response from pete, my one about the spinning seal stands as much chance of him answering you.

In the meantime I don't mind looking "so bloody smug."

One day eh worm? The rise of the little men. Can't wait.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Dec 13 - 06:25 AM

This story should get the Christian fundamentalists in a tizzy. Moslem fundamentalists believe the same stories! Good heavens, what is this world coming to...

:DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 10 Dec 13 - 08:09 PM

ok don firth. the details are to be found in the article "more marks of a young mercury" easily accessed i.m sure.
Humphries started from gen 1v3 and 2 Peter 3v5 that inform us of the creation out of water ,and he works from there. it is a model and therefore could be faulty or incomplete, but my point was that such [creationary] model has produced verified prediction.
I did not know the oort cloud had been observed- a ref maybe?
and life on mercury - maybe. NASA fails to clean its craft entirely as extremophiles resist the most stringent attempts at elimination and any life [ie bugs] out there probably came from earth.
my God a wizard with a pointed hat?! well yours , if you actually believe in one, is a bungler who cant get it right to start with.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,musket giggling
Date: 11 Dec 13 - 01:12 AM

Thanks for the bit regarding mercury pete.

If you can make someone piss themselves laughing where there were only dry trousers before. ...

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,the troll formally known as concerened
Date: 11 Dec 13 - 07:49 AM

Do you think we could move on from all this cronyism , judgmental, self promoting bilge now that the festive season is nearly upon us?

Personally I shall be stocking up on large amounts of tuck, even more amounts of drink and intend to usher in the festive season with a three day drinking binge..well we only do it for the kids don't we?

In the interest of promoting the festive season, may I extend a very cool yule to all you yeggs, cake eaters, judgmental phony centrist, ginger woosy smug buffoons on my thread.

In the very slim hopes that you all have a better attitude for the New Year


MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Dec 13 - 09:55 AM

All the best to you too, Conc. May you have a very merry Christmas and rise to even greater heights in the New Year :-)

D.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 11 Dec 13 - 10:29 AM

But but but.... I don't fit into any of those categories! Aren't you going to wish me a "special" Merry Chrimbo?

I've got the mistletoe, bottle of Babycham (or was it baby oil, I forget) and packet of pork scratchings all ready for a celebration of when Santa Claus was nailed to a cross or whatever it is they reckon is behind the annual binge.

I feel a festive song coming on...

Oh!!!!!

Check the balls on that big collie tra la la la laa la la la la.
He gets big when he gets jolly tra la la la laa la la la la.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Dec 13 - 10:41 AM

Is there any reference to gay apparel and trolls in this song? :-) If so, you'd better watch out. Is there another song there somewhere?

D

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Dec 13 - 02:36 PM

Pete, there are a whole bundle of inaccuracies about Mercury in that article. So many that it would take me a couple of days to detail them all and I simply don't have the time for that. And you wouldn't believe it anyway. All those supposed anomalies are well within the range of know physics and planetology.

I'm afraid it's your concept of God who is the real bungler. He allowed the serpent into the Garden of Eden in the first place and wasn't minding the store when the Slithery One conned Eve. Then He was off somewhere doing something when Cain killed Abel. Later on, He decided things had gone so pear-shaped that He had to essentially destroy His Creation and almost everyone in it and start all over. Hence, the Flood.

Not one of the sharper graduates of Hogwarts, I'm afraid!

My concept of a Supreme Being would be a Consciousness that could lay out the laws of physics and chemistry (which pretty much subsumes everything else such as laws of planetary motion and biochemistry-genetics-evolution, et al), then once that is programmed into the system, says, "Okay, let 'er rip!" And everything follows in due course and time, including the evolution of man from lower biological forms.

My concept of a Supreme Being doesn't have to keep tinkering with the system, fine-tuning it, and hitting the "reset" button because He, She, or It was intelligent enough to get it right in the first place.

And as to the length of time involved? 12,500,000,000 for the Cosmos to form, with the Sun, Earth, and the rest of the solar system forming over the past 4,500,000,000 years. The Supreme Being is Eternal. He, She, or It, isn't in any particular rush.

What's the hurry?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Stu
Date: 11 Dec 13 - 03:12 PM

Genesis 1v3:

" And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light"

2 Peter 3-5

3 Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4 They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation." 5 But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water.

How the heck you extrapolate the formation of Mercury from that lot is anyone's guess.

"I did not know the oort cloud had been observed- a ref maybe?"

Crikey, the man who never supplies refs wants a ref! Whooda thunk it?

So here goes . . . I don't think the Oort cloud is directly observable, but we know from the orbits of comets they are bound to our sun, and must have originated from beyond the orbit of Pluto but not interstellar space (which I'm guessing Pete doesn't think exists anyway) and are pulled into the inner solar system due to the gravitational forces of the planets essentially knocking them off kilter.

Odd though Pete. You accept everything in the Bible (including the nasty bits) on face value, and as the literal truth but then refuse to believe anything else that runs contrary to unless . . . some bloke on a creationist website says it's true. Is your only way of discerning any fundamental, observable truth by referring back to the bible and anonymous posts on the web? How do you cope with the telly, mobile phones and, er, computers? These rely on scientific principles which you don't believe in, and are not mentioned in the bible.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,musket again
Date: 11 Dec 13 - 03:23 PM

Yeah. On that point when I was running a business, a good customer / distributer company was owned by a weird but harmless bloke who was a member of a loony Christian cult. One that made women wear hankies on their heads.

It was a good few years ago and faxes were a recent thing. I rang the sales manager there and asked if they had a fax number yet? No, came the answer. The boss had been at a Bible study group that had deduced faxes were contrary to biblical teaching.

I heard in more recent years, mobile phones and email were added. Sadly for all concerned, mammon is the work of the devil and the company went tits up.

A moral there somewhere in the Oort cloud. They were based in Bristol which is about the same thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 11 Dec 13 - 05:51 PM

thanks stu for answering my question to don,-ie that the oort cloud has not been observed, albeit suggesting an interpretation of the data as to why you believe it is there.
still resorting to the tactic of equating what is repeatable, observable ,testable science with what is only interpretation of the unrepeatable and therefore falling short of the scientific principles you mention - unless of course you seriously dilute those principles.
but then that is what the general theory of evolution does - and then passes it off as established fact!.
that should have been gen 1v2-sorry.the article did not go into great detail as to how the predictions were worked out, but there was a good degree of accuracy validated by the subsequent space exploration, it seems. i think that DOES fall into the scientific method .

credit at least for looking at the article, don. must admit to being disappointed you found so many factual errors. I confess you have the advantage , but maybe you could outline just briefly maybe just two of the most significant factual mistakes, so I can try to check them out. maybe you might even use the comment facility on the site to correct them, as I doubt they want to perpetuate inaccurate facts, though of course the interpretation in terms of cosmic history will differ.
your concept of a supreme being is just that - a concept. I believe in a God of revelation. I don't pretend that I can answer every theological problem, though I could go so far, but not the complete answer. that is where faith does come in.
never-the-less biblical revelation does provide a framework of belief and practise for the believer, whereas your "concept" provides nothing except a pick and choose, take or leave it ,not much to believe in vagueness.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Dec 13 - 06:39 PM

The Oort cloud (named after Dutch astronomer Jan Oort, who first predicted its existence) was further predicted by astronomer Fred Whipple in his "dust cloud" theory (no longer a theory, but an established fact) as a normal "left-over" from the formation of a star and its attendant planets.

Its existence was actually verified when the Voyager space probe completed its survey of outer planets, then headed out into deep space--yet, surprisingly kept sending back data (good batteries!).

There is nothing about the planet Mercury that can be construed as unusual or especially surprising, seeing its proximity to the sun and the fact that it has a molten iron core, like Earth.

There, incidentally, is a thought to give you nightmares. The earth's surface upon which we live is composed of tectonic plates--like chunks of slag drifting around on the surface of a ball of molten iron. It's convection currents within that ball that moves the plates around, causing earthquakes and volcanoes.

Sweet dreams!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Dec 13 - 07:54 PM

With a good telescope, it's possible to see new stars and planetary systems being formed all throughout the galaxy. In such clouds of gas and dust as the "Horse Head Nebula," or in the cloudy "arms" of the galaxy—and in distant galaxies—there are what might be called "nodules" (called "Bok globules" after astronomer Bart Bok [any relation to Gordon? I dunno]—in which the dust and gas seems to have formed a gravitational center and all of the matter is orbiting around that center. As it orbits faster and faster, it forms "sub-centers" of gravitation. Sooner or later, enough matter has been gathered in the center so that gravitational pressure sets up a nuclear reaction and the star ignites. These globules are sometimes referred to as "star nurseries."

The sub-centers congeal into planets, which continue to orbit around the new-formed sun. The left-over gas and dust on the periphery forms the Oort cloud, which spawns meteors and comets, which drift about aimlessly until captured by the sun's gravity and fall into a closer orbit around the sun.

Once you have made a few observations, you can formulate a theory. Then you confirm, modify, or abandon the theory based on further observations.

Those who wrote the scrolls that were later compiled into what we now call "the Bible" didn't have a clue about any of this. The "theories" set forth in the Bible are simply "best guess" as to how all of this came about.

Then—blokes like Copernicus and Galileo, instead of slavishly following the ancient writings in the Bible, had the audacity to simply look at the skies.

Interesting that the "Powers That Be" at the time threatened them with being burned at the stake for doing so.

And as far as the "theory" of evolution is concerned, discoveries made over a period of time in environmental adaptation and its continuity through genetics have pretty well established it as—FACT.

Sorry, Pete. But THAT is the way God did it!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Dec 13 - 08:43 PM

Some years ago, Bill Moyers conducted a series of televised interviews with Joseph Campbell, writer of Myth and Metaphor and The Hero with a Thousand Faces and many other books.

CLICKY.

These interviews are available on DVD. Second paragraph of the web site I provided a link to just above. They are well worth getting and watching (maybe your local public library).

Among many other things, Campbell says that there are great truths to be found in myths. But—where man and religions go wrong is when they take the myth—and the metaphors therein—as literal historical facts.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,musket again
Date: 12 Dec 13 - 01:16 AM

I reckon that two years from now, the co Messiahs and associated gnome together with holy bingo and the prophet Betty Swollox from the distant land of Knott End will become rigid fact of historical value.   People will be willing to go to war over preserving the sanctity of gob irons and the riddle of the holy land known as S6.

In fact, Max Hastings is already writing the history of the truth.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 12 Dec 13 - 02:21 PM

nice picture ,don. but sorry that is not the way God done it. the observations you claim make evolutionism a fact, at best illustrate natural selection/survival of the fittest, and at worst how complex even the simplest of life forms are for it to have popped into existence by itself.
as you failed to provide a ref to voyager verifying oort cloud ,I looked up a few sites [not only creation] but it seems still indefinite ,best I can see.
as well as inviting you to ref that assertion, how about just two factual errors in the CMI article that you claimed was riddled with error?
the pope apparently had no problem with galileos heliocentric model till he characterized him as "simplicico" in his writings. I believe it was the science of the day that mainly opposed him .I think it was planetary bodies epicycles that they clung to, just as Darwinism is clung to now, despite evidence to the contrary.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Dec 13 - 04:05 PM

Fair point, pete. Voyager 1 still has a way to go before it will pass through the Oort Cloud. I'm afraid I was confusing the Kuiper Belt with the Oort Cloud. This is where comets come from.

But—halos (or Oort Clouds) have been observed around other stars. In fact it is inconceivable that a star could form without leaving a large cloud of matter that didn't get caught up sufficiently in the new-formed star's gravitational pull to the center, but is still sufficiently trapped by gravity to orbit the star.

Why does this in any way contradict anything in the Bible? I don't see your problem.

Observations of the skies with the new orbital telescopes have revealed that the vast majority of the "billions and billions" of stars in the Cosmos are what are known as "main sequence" stars, neither giants nor dwarfs, and that well over 100 of the nearest stars have planets orbiting them. Just statistically, some of those planets will be earth-like, terrestrial worlds, in the "temperate zone" (between the freezing and boiling point of water) to have atmospheres, and, indeed, oceans.

In which Life can evolve!

In the novel, Contact, written by Carl Sagan, then movie starring Jodie Foster as Ellie Arroway, director of a SETI project, said when a group of school children asked her if there were life on other planets, "The universe is a pretty big place. It's bigger than anything anyone has ever dreamed of before. So if it's just us... seems like an awful waste of space. Right?"

Take a stew of organic chemicals, such as those found in watery areas all over the world and add energy—such as sunlight—and this—amazingly enough but demonstrably true—can produce one-celled living organisms. Life! And at this point, the process of evolution can begin.

It sounds a bit "Frankensteinian," but it is possible to produce living, one-celled organisms in the laboratory, in a beaker full of chemicals that include carbon by in-putting a bit of energy. Sometimes even bumping the beaker is sufficient to get the reactions going. True, nothing has come crawling up out of the beaker and said "Take me to your leader," but Life nevertheless!

This is demonstrable and repeatable.

And it's at this point that evolution, natural selection, and "the survival of the fittest" can begin.

This same process can take place on ANY planet with essentially earthlike characteristics (and perhaps others, but that is, as yet, uncertain). So it's simply illogical—and small-minded—to assume Life is confined to one planet only in this incredibly vast Cosmos.

One of the problems with Creationists is that they make the somewhat (I would think!) blasphemous assumption that the Almighty, All-Powerful God they worship is only capable of coping with one small planet and has to keep tinkering with the doings of His living creations.

If this vast Cosmos in which we live were, indeed, created by an Almighty Omniscient Intelligence, He, She, or It is so far beyond our knowledge—even our ability to comprehend—that claiming to know the Mind of God is the rankest of blasphemies.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Dec 13 - 05:25 PM

add energy—such as sunlight—and this—amazingly enough but demonstrably true—can produce one-celled living organisms. Life!

Not demonstrated yet.

but it is possible to produce living, one-celled organisms in the laboratory
Possibly, but never yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Dec 13 - 06:40 PM

Keith, according to Carl Sagan and a number of biochemists, it has been demonstrated, many times.

I'll see if I can find a link.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Dec 13 - 02:09 AM

No.
I am sure it will be, but not yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Dec 13 - 02:10 AM

1300!
Just amino acids.