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BS: KatrinaGate
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Geoduck Date: 17 Jan 06 - 09:55 PM Hey Hey! I think one of Bobert's eyes in open in one corner just a tilge and some light is sneaking in. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 18 Jan 06 - 05:13 PM Some nonsense on CNN last night, saying NO isn't chocolate any more, because it has gone from 2/3 Black before the hurricanes to only 40% now. The figure is meaningless since those who left include many who are waiting till the Federal FEMA rules are. Those who owned homes will return if they can repair and rebuild. Many won't know what they can do until the FEMA maps are out in early summer. In the NY Times today I see that the City has agreed to notify homeowners before they demolish any houses. For 123 worst case houses in the lower Ninth, 7-10 days notice will be given, and the owner can appeal before the limit is up. For 1900 houses less damaged but 'in danger of collapse,' 30 days notice, with right of appeal will be given. A Mr. Meffert, the City official in charge of demolition, says the program can now go ahead, saying "we have to rebuild for everyone" (whatever that means). In all, about 2500 houses are on the demolish list. Bobert, I agree local NO language use can be misunderstood outside of the area. I remember several years ago a musician working in the Quarter telling me he lived in chocolate city because rents were too high in the Quarter and Marigny. The mayor sometimes sounds like a preacher, but I heard a lot of that talk when I was down there, from both Black and White. and no one paid it any nevermind. His vote base has shifted dramatically. It was the Uptown vote that elected the mayor, now he must hope for strong Black support in the next election. He will be running against several declared White candidates. An editorial in the Times-Picayune stated "Mayor Nagin has a good heart, but --- he heightened tensions between neighbors." |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Geoduck Date: 19 Jan 06 - 09:08 PM I see there is a thread by Poppa amd Mamma Gator all about their plans for Mardi Gras. I searched for comments about Bush, Brownie, Blanco Nagin, FEMA, DHA, Katrina and there is no mention of the disaster or bickering about who's fault it is. Basically they say Laissez les bon temps roulet. Is the whole controversy is a media event? |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 19 Jan 06 - 09:19 PM Incidently, Michael Brown today said that all the problems were his fault??? Yeah, okay, Mike... Nice try,,, Yer still off the Bush Christmas card list... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Old Guy Date: 20 Jan 06 - 02:32 PM Score one fer Bobert, Brownie fesses up. http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/59312.htm January 20, 2006 -- MAMMOTH LAKES, Calif. � Former FEMA Director Michael Brown has placed blame on everyone from New Orleans' mayor to Louisiana's governor for the chaos following Hurricane Katrina. Now, he's including himself. Brown admits he fell short of conveying the magnitude of the disaster and was slow in calling for help. "I should have demanded the military sooner," Brown, former head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, told a gathering of broadcast and National Weather Service meteorologists Wednesday. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 20 Jan 06 - 09:58 PM Nah, Old Guy.... Brownie, after telling Congress under oath that he warned Bush that a Cat 4 or Cat 5 was about to hit the Gulf Coast on the Satudurday before Katrina is now playing, "Oh, dumb me????"... Yeah, this is all just another Karl Rove trick to try to keep his boy afloat... Yeah, get Brownie to take tha fall and it's one less scandal that can taske Bush out.... Too bad the Dems is up to their ears in whatever 'er they would be killin' Bush on this one.... Makes ya wonder what the Dems is hidin'...Must be big 'er they would be on this one like ugly on an ape... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Amos Date: 24 Jan 06 - 01:45 PM Pre-Katrina Warnings Not Heeded Senators Slam Bush Administration for Not Heeding Warnings in Advance of Hurricane Katrina By LARA JAKES JORDAN Associated Press Writer The Associated Press WASHINGTON Jan 24, 2006 — Senators lambasted the Bush administration on Tuesday for failing to heed devastating predictions from a hurricane preparedness test that began a year before Hurricane Katrina slammed into the Gulf Coast. The top Democrat on the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee also accused the White House of trying to block or delay the panel's inquiry into the government's sluggish response to Katrina. The preparedness exercise that began in July 2004, dubbed Hurricane Pam, warned that a Category 3 storm would overwhelm the New Orleans area with flood waters, killing up to 60,000 people and destroying buildings and roads. State and federal officials were concluding Pam's findings when Katrina, an actual Category 4 storm, roared ashore on Aug. 29. "As a dry run for the real thing, Pam should have been a wake-up call that could not be ignored," said Sen. Susan Collins, R-Maine, chair of the Senate committee's examination of Pam's findings at a Tuesday hearing. "Instead, it is apparent that a more appropriate name for Pam should have been 'Cassandra' the mythical prophet who warned of disasters but whom no one believed." ... |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 24 Jan 06 - 06:04 PM Did I reasd that right, Amos??? "Sen. Suusan Collins, R-Maine..." Hmmmmm??? "R"??? Like I said, the Repubs must have pics of Ted with a hooker (or worse since a pic of Ted with ahooker wouldn't really shock anyone too much...)??? They got somethin' on the Dems 'er the Dems would be killing Bush on his and his adminstrations complete failures to come thru with 3 eyars of promises to be prepared to "protect the American people".... And the beat goes on... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 24 Jan 06 - 06:35 PM Oh well, firget the Dems... Just turned in the corporate owned news channel and it even reporting that the Bush administartion wasn't prepared... Something that I have been stating for a couple two or threee months here and been called a bunch of names, had folks ask for sources (which I have provided) and then told that in their opionion thew lack of response was the sates and local governemnt fault... This even after I pointed out that the National Response Plan made a natural disaster the size of Katrina's the feds problem... Yeah, the "gate" certainly belongs behind Katrina... Bush earned it an now he's gonna have to wear it... Oh, for the good ol' days when it was nuthin' much more than a guy not wanting hios wife and daughter to know he was gettin' a little on the side... Seems like the innocent 50's in retrospect... (But, Bobert, Karl Rove says that the Repubs have "a post 9/11 mentality...) Oh, yeah, I almost forgot to mention that Osaom ordered up Hurricane Katrina.... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 25 Jan 06 - 06:46 PM Hmmmmmm, now that a lot of the stuff I have pointed out has made it into the main stream media it's no wonder that the usual cast isn't here with their yeah, but's, attacks and outright Bushite propaganda talking points... ..."yeah now you don't talk so loud and, yeah, you don't talk so proud... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 25 Jan 06 - 11:29 PM New York Times today says "White House declines to provide Storm papers" (on Katrina). Nor will senior White House officials be allowed to give testimony before Congressional Committees. See article by Eric Lipton, Jan. 25, 2006. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 26 Jan 06 - 04:50 PM Yeah, but won't stop" Bush the Proclaimer" from pumping out his chest saying that 'he's deicated to rebuilding New Orleans... |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 27 Jan 06 - 03:57 PM New Orleans Times-Picayune today- FEMA promised $400 million to hospitals, and said the money was sent, but so far not one penny received. Keith Darcé, business writer, Fri., Jan. 27, 2006. FEMA had assured members of the Oversight and Investigations Subcommittee of the U. S. House Committee on Energy and Commerce that the money was in place. The Mesical Director for the State Department of Health and Hospitals has seen no funds, and continues to fill out more forms. The hospitals have gone into debt; among the expenses was $50 milloin for a military style tent hospital housed in and around a convention center that was needed to care for patients. Operating losses at West Jefferson Medical Center have exceeded $28 million. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Old Guy Date: 27 Jan 06 - 05:33 PM 'Hurricane Pam' exercise offered glimpse of Katrina misery Friday, 6 p.m. By John McQuaid Staff writer Times Picayune The document's cover page reads: "Southeast Louisiana Catastrophic Hurricane Functional Plan." "It maps out detailed instructions for emergency managers responding to a deadly hurricane that floods all of New Orleans, killing more than 60,000: how to rescue and evacuate hundreds of thousands of people stranded on rooftops or trapped by rising waters; how to quickly mobilize federal, state and local agencies; how to drain water laced with toxic sludge and clean up a ruined city. But officials never put this plan into action. It wasn't an official disaster playbook but an experiment, the product of a weeklong simulation done last year in which emergency managers confronted a fictional Hurricane Pam. The halting emergency response to Hurricane Katrina's aftermath left thousands of people stranded in New Orleans and adjacent areas for days without food and water, with many vulnerable to roaming gangs of outlaws. Flaws in communications and coordination between government agencies at the federal, state and local levels apparently slowed the response, though exactly what went wrong has yet to be determined. The 109-page report on Pam, dated Sept. 20, 2004, and provided by a participant in the exercise, addresses many of these issues. The simulation imagined a grim scenario even worse than Katrina: A slow-moving Category 3 hurricane strikes the New Orleans area, overtopping levees and causing 10-12 feet of flooding in New Orleans and the entire east bank metro area. Katrina's flood waters spared most of Jefferson Parish and parts of New Orleans. In the simulation, 61,290 people die, including 24,250 in New Orleans. An additional 384,000 are injured or fall ill. The exercise grew out of an initiative at the Federal Emergency Management Agency started early in the Bush presidency to develop plans for the worst possible disasters that could hit the United States..." And ignored by state, city and local officials. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 27 Jan 06 - 06:30 PM No, Old Guy, this is where you go drastically wrong!!! Yes, for you Bush apologists it would be real convient to leave the impression that this was failure of state, loacl and federal governemnt. Porblem is, is that your propositiion is terribly flawed and fir a very good reason... You guys don't cop to nuthin"... First of all, the National Response Plan took into account situations where state and local governments were overwhelmed... I think it is safe to say that this was the case here.. Secondly, It is not even a given that the sate and locals weren't performing well... Governor Blanko has turned over her documents on what she did and Bush has turned over cherry picked documents ane refusded to hand over any more... And lastly, Bush, inspite of an urgent call from fall-guy, Micheal Brown two days before Katrina hit, did nothjing but continue his vaction and even then went to Californis to do some comapaigning... These are the facts... Now to WITT: Karl "Big Fat Liar" says that Republicans are the ones with the post 9/11 vision???? Hahahahaha...... "cept it ain't funny... The only thing they seem to care about is raiding the treasury for themselves and their fat cat CEO buds... No one is safer since 9/11... Incidents of terrorism have incresed every year since 9/11... You won't admit it, Old Guy, but you know it is true... How anyone can defend Bush anymore is beyond me unless yer getting rich off the treasury rip-off... whcih must be the case... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Old Guy Date: 27 Jan 06 - 06:43 PM What makes you think I am defending Bush? I am saying the responsibility belongs to state and local governments to be ready for a disaster. Were they? Did they do anything sugested in the report? You are the defending the corrupt and irresponsible "chocolate City" government. You keep mumbling about corporate owned news channels and corporate owned newspapers. Which ones are not owned by a corporation? |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 28 Jan 06 - 01:03 AM In the case of New Orleans, the Federal Government was the main author of the disaster. Responsibility for the Inner Harbor Navigation Canal is Federal. This is the canal that caused major flooding in the Ninth Ward and Jefferson and St. Bernard Parishes. It is part of the Navigable Waters of the United States. For years, there have been calls for upgrades. Rather than do that, Congress authorized a new lock to be built at a cost of 748 million, and a new bridge over the canal (separate project; more millions), although traffic was decreasing. NO money was voted for flood control. The lock is (was?) a porkbarrel project of the Corps of Engineers and the Louisiana federal congressional delegation and their congressional buddies. These congressmen, of course, bear partial responsibility, but there were no objections from the Executive. City and State government officials had no effective say in the matter. The responsibility of the Federal government for navigable waterways is spelled out under Title 33, Navigation and Navigable Waters. Three Federal agencies are involved: Department of Transportation Army Corps of Engineers Coast Guard, Dept. of Homeland Security. Also involved is Port of New Orleans (don't know who is ultimately responsible here, but I am sure the City has little or no power here). Finally, there is NO way for the local and State governments to be ready for a disaster of that magnitude in the short time involved, and where they have little effective input on protective measures for the federally-controlled canal whose levees and walls were overtopped. Now the Corps of Engineers is trying to restore Level 3 protection by mid-summer, and Level 5 protection is only on paper. All of this has been posted before (thread 84801 and others). |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 28 Jan 06 - 10:53 AM Yeah, Old Guy, uou gloss over Bush's National Response Plan like ir didn't exist... It outlines the federal response in case of a natural disaster (as well as terrorists attack)when local or state governemtns are overwhelmed... Google up "National Response Plan" fir a little insight into one of the main points I have been making in this thread that is now over 300 posts without one single word of rebuttal as to the federal responsibilities were/are.... (Normal, Bobert, but at least Old Guy hasn't gotten around to blaming it on Bill Clinton...) Opps, sorry, Old Guy, but if you're thinking of blaming the Bush administartions failures in their poor response to Katrina on Bill Clinton, that dog won't hunt... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST Date: 28 Jan 06 - 12:34 PM Sounds like another I Hate Bush thread to me. The state and local government's failures are being glossed over |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST Date: 28 Jan 06 - 12:44 PM Research into more than ten years of reporting on hurricane and flood damage mitigation efforts in and around New Orleans indicates that local and state officials did not use federal money that was available for levee improvements or coastal reinforcement and often did not secure local matching funds that would have generated even more federal funding. In December of 1995, the Orleans Levee Board, the local government entity that oversees the levees and floodgates designed to protect New Orleans and the surrounding areas from rising waters, bragged in a supplement to the Times-Picayune newspaper about federal money received to protect the region from hurricanes. "In the past four years, the Orleans Levee Board has built up its arsenal. The additional defenses are so critical that Levee Commissioners marched into Congress and brought back almost $60 million to help pay for protection," the pamphlet declared. "The most ambitious flood-fighting plan in generations was drafted. An unprecedented $140 million building campaign launched 41 projects." The levee board promised Times-Picayune readers that the "few manageable gaps" in the walls protecting the city from Mother Nature's waters "will be sealed within four years (1999) completing our circle of protection." But less than a year later, that same levee board was denied the authority to refinance its debts. Legislative Auditor Dan Kyle "repeatedly faulted the Levee Board for the way it awards contracts, spends money and ignores public bid laws," according to the Times-Picayune. The newspaper quoted Kyle as saying that the board was near bankruptcy and should not be allowed to refinance any bonds, or issue new ones, until it submitted an acceptable plan to achieve solvency. Blocked from financing the local portion of the flood fighting efforts, the levee board was unable to spend the federal matching funds that had been designated for the project. By 1998, Louisiana's state government had a $2 billion construction budget, but less than one tenth of one percent of that -- $1.98 million -- was dedicated to levee improvements in the New Orleans area. State appropriators were able to find $22 million that year to renovate a new home for the Louisiana Supreme Court and $35 million for one phase of an expansion to the New Orleans convention center. The following year, the state legislature did appropriate $49.5 million for levee improvements, but the proposed spending had to be allocated by the State Bond Commission before the projects could receive financing. The commission placed the levee improvements in the "Priority 5" category, among the projects least likely to receive full or immediate funding. The Orleans Levee Board was also forced to defer $3.7 million in capital improvement projects in its 2001 budget after residents of the area rejected a proposed tax increase to fund its expanding operations. Long term deferments to nearly 60 projects, based on the revenue shortfall, totaled $47 million worth of work, including projects to shore up the floodwalls. No new state money had been allocated to the area's hurricane protection projects as of October of 2002, leaving the available 65 percent federal matching funds for such construction untouched. "The problem is money is real tight in Baton Rouge right now," state Sen. Francis Heitmeier (D-Algiers) told the Times-Picayune. "We have to do with what we can get." Louisiana Commissioner of Administration Mark Drennen told local officials that, if they reduced their requests for state funding in other, less critical areas, they would have a better chance of getting the requested funds for levee improvements. The newspaper reported that in 2000 and 2001, "the Bond Commission has approved or pledged millions of dollars for projects in Jefferson Parish, including construction of the Tournament Players Club golf course near Westwego, the relocation of Hickory Avenue in Jefferson (Parish) and historic district development in Westwego." There is no record of such discretionary funding requests being reduced or withdrawn, but in October of 2003, nearby St. Charles Parish did receive a federal grant for $475,000 to build bike paths on top of its levees. Earlier this year, the levee board did complete a $2.5 million restoration project. After months of delays, officials rolled away fencing to reveal the restored 1962 Mardi Gras fountain in a four-acre park featuring a new 600-foot plaza between famous Lakeshore Drive and the sea wall. Financing for the renovation came from a property tax passed by New Orleans voters in 1983. The tax, which generates more than $6 million each year for the levee board, is dedicated to capital projects. Levee board officials defended more than $600,000 in cost overruns for the Mardi Gras fountain project, according to the Times-Picayune, "citing their responsibility to maintain the vast green space they have jurisdiction over along the lakefront." |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST Date: 28 Jan 06 - 12:53 PM October 18, 2005 Inept New Orleans Officials Could it be that corrupt and inept city officials contributed greatly to all the deaths and injuries caused by Hurricane Katrina? According to a former president of the New Orleans City Council and former Orleans Levee Board member that is exactly the case. Peggy Wilson, a New Orleans city councilwoman from 1986 through 1998 and later a governor-appointed Orleans Levee Board member, has given a candid account this week on what the mainstream media has failed to say regarding the big storm's devastating effect. Wilson said that the levee board was well-funded but the money was not spent on levee maintenance and improvements like it should have. Rather, the board focused on widening bridges and making other accommodations for riverboat casinos, which not surprisingly, are a major source of the levee board's funding. She also said that some board members, including the chairman of the board, had personal relationships with companies that were contracted to perform unnecessary services for the board. As for the most inept official, Wilson believes that title belongs to New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, who she says is not corrupt but rather "he didn't know anything about city government or how to run a city….Its just the most unbelievable ineptness." |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 28 Jan 06 - 07:43 PM Red herring, GUEST... First, as Joe Offer has asked over and over, please don't post long cut 'n pastes... The rule is if it won't fir on screen then it's too long... Plus, unlike Arne, I'm not going to get into them long, well corporate financed blogs that 99% oif the time are 100% behind the Bushites... Must be nice to be that well financed that you can afford to pay folks to take sh*t and spin it into Long "Tropic of Cancer" length reems of Shinola.... So you are going to place Bush's entire defense in the hands a of Peggy Wilson? Yes ____ No _____ Ahhhh, just who controls the levees and who is responsible for them? N.O. ________ Don Duck ______ The Federal Governemnt _______ Like I said, red herring.... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 02 Feb 06 - 08:06 AM Well, well, well... Like the tides coming in this one is slowly but surely making it's way to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave with now even the corporate media reporting that Chertoff was AWOL.... Hmmmmmm, who could be next in the tide's way??? Plus, nice to keep this little scandal refreshed now and then as the noose tightens... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,G Date: 02 Feb 06 - 08:49 AM Yes, the tide is rolling but it is going to batter the State and local officials. 26 Jan 5:33, OG said "Ignored by State, city and local officials" Boberts' reply said "Failure of State, city and Federal officials" at 6:30. Bobert, I don't believe you really read the other posts here or you are totally misinformed. However, I am going to give you the 'benefit of the the doubt' and think you are playing Devils advocate. If that is not the case, then you have to be Twins 'cause one person couldn't be this F'in stupid. I just wonder what your position will be when the dust has settled and the real truth is out. Oh, one more thing, can you not visualize the the National Response plan is designed to provide asistance once an area decides it is overwhelmed which usually requires the disaster to hit first? |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Old Guy Date: 02 Feb 06 - 09:09 AM Bobert: Joe has a 30" screen now so you can't use that excuse to keep the real facts from getting to the readers of your thread. You have to refresh your own threads. Nobody else will. What happened to your medigate thread? Who was responsible for evacuating N.O. before Katrina hit? Cut and pastes that Bobert does not want you to see: Questions have also been raised, for example, over the failure of New Orleans mayor Ray Nagin to order the city's fleet of school buses into action to evacuate residents, many of whom live below the poverty line and had no means of fleeing independently, before the storm hit. Then there is the mystery as to why Kathleen Blanco, the Democrat Louisiana governor who attempted to shift the spotlight from herself to the White House by threatening to punch the President, refused to send in National Guard troops in any significant number to assist the post-flood rescue and evacuation effort. Even now, she still refuses to sign them into federal control so that their contribution can be better co-ordinated. According to Senator Landrieu, Mayor Nagin's evacuation was the best evacuation I've seen, I've never seen one any better. It was the Bush administration's fault that hundreds of city school buses weren't dispatched to evacuate the hurricane-battered residents of New Orleans before floods swamped the city. Asked on why New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin failed to follow the city's evacuation plan and press the buses into service, Landrieu blamed Bush administration cuts in mass transit funding. Landrieu: "In other words, this administration did not believe in mass transit. They won't even get people to work on a sunny day, let alone getting them out." Saying she was unwilling to criticize Louisiana officials, the Louisiana Democrat insisted that Mayor Nagin's evacuation efforts had been a smashing success. Because the mayor evacuated the city, we had the best evacuation of any evacuation I've seen. I'm 50 years old; I've never seen one any better When reminded that were a hundred thousand people left in the city, Landrieu once again blamed the White House by saying They did [have] a hundred thousand people left in the city because this federal government won't support cities to evacuate people, whether it's from earthquakes, tornadoes, or hurricanes. And that's the truth. On August 26 Mayor Nagin advised New Orleanians to keep a close eye on the storm and prepare for evacuation. He made various statements encouraging people to leave without officially calling for an evacuation throughout the 27th, and issued a voluntary evacuation request late in the day. He stressed the potential danger posed by Katrina by saying "This is not a test. This is the real deal." He was hesitant to order a mandatory evacuation because of concerns about the city's liability for closing hotels and other businesses. The actual plan was here but it has been deleted for some "strange" reason. Elections for Mayor and City Council members had been schedualed for November 2005, but these were postponed due to the devastation after Katrina and the many New Orleanians still living out of the city. New elections are schedualed for April 22, 2006. A native of a working-class section of the city's Algiers neighborhood, Mr. Nagin, 49 years old, was a cable-television executive before his election. Although a lifelong Democrat, he was friendly to Republicans, contributing to Mr. Bush's 2000 bid and endorsing Ms. Blanco's Republican opponent in 2003. After Katrina, Mr. Nagin turned to a cadre of other political newcomers and business leaders who had backed his campaign. Pivotal among them was Joseph Canizaro, a commercial real-estate developer who is personally close to the president and top political adviser Karl Rove. At that point, he says, he decided he shouldn't rely on the governor or other state officials. "It suddenly dawned on me: What game should I be playing? How do I get this done?" |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Old Guy Date: 02 Feb 06 - 09:13 AM Oops. Here is the link to the Missing plan |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 02 Feb 06 - 09:22 AM Nah, G-zer... I think it's you who ain't doing the readeratin' here... If you go back to the very first post in this thread I made reference to the National Response Plan... This plan, written by the Bush folks incidently, looked at scenerios where state and local resources/gevernemnts were overwhelmed by a disaster and how the federal government would act in that case... Whether or jot the state and locals were overwhelmed with Katrina can and will continue to be debated... But that is not the issue... The issue is that, given that Michale Brown spoke directly with Bush on two full days before Katrina warning Bush of a Cat 4 or Cat 5 most likely coming thru N.O., given the National Repsonse Plan, this should have set some actions in motion... But as we now learn, this didn't occur for another 3 days... These three days may end up being like the 18 minutes of missing Nixon tapes but I don't think so... There's way to much information out there, including notes from the White House in regards to Governor Blanko's communictations which the White House has cherry picked thru and sitting on the remainder (think Cheney's notes on the "Energy Policy" here...)... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Old Guy Date: 02 Feb 06 - 09:48 AM Well first the state and local governments have to be overwhelmed. I suppose if they sit on ther asses and screw everything up from the getgo, they are overwhelmed in your opinion. How about that big cut and paste of 28 Jan 06 - 12:44 PM containingg facts you don't want anybody to see? It tells how state and local officials pissed away money for the levees on other stuff and they could not match federal money for the levees. It is gross incompetence in financial matters. I guess they were "overwhelmed". In your opinion incompetent = overwhelmed which means the Feds have to do everything for them like taking care of a retard. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,G Date: 02 Feb 06 - 10:05 AM Okay, please tell us, sccording to the NPR, what the Feds are supposed to do "2 days" before Katrina made landfall. Two or three examples will suffuce and be sure not to include the semi loads of equipment enroute to the area prior to landfall. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 02 Feb 06 - 07:57 PM First, Old Guy, younare more intellegent than yeer last post.. Maybe someone is using her handle... What, are you going to tell me that N.O.'s should have a had a plan ready to impliment if the largest natural disaster of our life time hit them??? Hey, lets get real here... Where do you live??? Nearest large city please will do... And what plan is in place in that city in the case of a disaster??? Well, it don't atter much what city it is... The answer is "none"!!! Not even Washington, D.C. has such a plan... Cities are not finacially able to have this kind of stuff all worked out... And, evn if they did have the dough to handle a disaster, they are still very much dependent on neighbors to cooperate... I thought that was one of the lessons learned by 9/11... Well. you'd sure think so by the number of times that Bush pumped out his cheat and said, "My job is to protect the American people!!!" No, G-zer, rather than ask me just stay tuned as the rest of the story will unfold... Just yesterday, the Govewrnment Accountability Office (GAO) released a scathing report that said: 1. the administration did not establish a clear chain of command for the domestic emergency.. 2, disregarded early warnings of of a Category 5 hurricane inundating New Orleans and South Lousinana 3. and did not ensure that cities and states had adequate plans and training before the August 29th storm... Hmmmmmm? And Representtaive Thomas Davis (R-Va.) stated, "The Director... of the National Hurricane Center said this was the big one... but when it happened, Bush is in Texas, Card is in Maine, the vice-prsident is fly-fishing. I mean, who's in charge here?" And this from a Repub??? As fir **exactly** what the feds were supposed to be doing, G-zer, stay tuned as the Nastional Response Plan get's it 15 minutes of fame... But so far, there is nothing that I originally posted here that has been proven to be incorrect... Might of facy, as time goes on, more and more of what I argued is falling into place... Oh, BTW, how many references to Katrina did Bush make in his State of Union Address??? Hmmmmmmmmm? Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Old Guy Date: 02 Feb 06 - 11:55 PM Bobert: Are we on the same planet? About the Office of Emergency Preparedness http://www.cityofno.com/portal.aspx?portal=46&tabid=9 Mission statement: The [New Orleans]Office of Emergency Preparedness is responsible for the response and coordination of those actions needed to protect the lives and property of its citizens from natural or man-made disasters as well as emergency planning for the City of New Orleans. Our primary responsibility is to advise the Mayor, the City Council and Chief Administrative Officer regarding emergency preparedness activities and operations.We coordinate all city departments and allied state and federal agencies which respond to city-wide disasters and emergencies through the development and constant updating of an integrated multi-hazard plan. All requests for federal disaster assistance and federal funding subsequent to disaster declarations are also made through this office. Our authority is defined by the Louisiana Emergency Assistance and Disaster Act of 1993, Chapter 6 Section 709, Paragraph B: "Each Parish shall maintain a disaster agency which, except as otherwise provided under this act, has jurisdiction over and serves the entire parish." Hurricane Evacuation Guidelines The Greater New Orleans Area is faced with a difficult challenge during an evacuation due to the city's large population and limited road system which is susceptible to flooding. That is why the Office of Emergency Preparedness, urges people to "Plan to Be Safe" by voluntarily evacuating "high risk areas" before a recommended evacuation. See the high risk areas. If you plan to evacuate, leave as early as possible, before hurricane gale force winds, heavy rainfall and storm surge cause road closings. There are three phases of evacuation: precautionary, recommended, and mandatory. An evacuation notice will be issued when a hurricane is forecast to present a danger to the Greater New Orleans Area. When this notice to evacuate will be issued, depends on the landfall probability in this area and also on the speed and severity of the storm. * State Evacuation Maps * General Evacuation Guidelines Here is the big one too large to cut and paste and Bobert will be too lazy to read: STATE OF LOUISIANA Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness EMERGENCY OPERATIONS PLAN APRIL 2005 http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/plans/STATE%20OF%20LOUISIANA%20EOP%202005.doc ..............1. The ESF 3 Coordinator will develop plans, procedures, arrangements and agreements to ensure that the activities required by ESF 3 can be carried out effectively and efficiently. 2. The ESF 3 Coordinator will initiate contacts with other state agencies and organizations, in particular, the Department of Natural Resources and the United States Department of Agriculture � Natural Resources Conservation Service (USDA � NRCS) to ensure cooperation in emergencies and disasters. 3. The ESF 3 will work with emergency organizations such as LOHSEP and regional emergency task forces to ensure that the state�s infrastructure is adequate to support traffic flows in large scale evacuations. Particular attention will be paid to hurricane evacuation routes in the southern part of the state. Levees and flood control structures will be designed, built and maintained to contain potential large scale floods. C. RESPONSE: 1. When an emergency is imminent, the ESF 3 Coordinator will assess the potential impact of the threat on the state�s infrastructure and work with other authorities to ensure that any necessary immediate repairs or arrangements for critical structures and facilities are initiated. 2. If a hurricane emergency develops, the ESF 3 Coordinator will work with all state and local authorities to manage evacuation of people in the threatened area(s). 3. As the emergency progresses, the Coordinator will monitor the status of the infrastructure and effect emergency repairs where needed and feasible. 4. The ESF 3 Coordinator will monitor the status of debris on critical evacuation routes and initiate emergency debris clearance and repairs to save lives where needed and feasible............ The particular state plan for the NO area is a separate document which has mysteriously "disappeared" from the state website so we can't see if it was followed or not: SUPPLEMENTS PUBISHED SEAPARATLY: http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/plans/EOPSupplement1b.pdf 1A - Southeast Louisiana Hurricane and Evacuation Plan So to be blunt Bobert, you don't know what the hell you are talking about when you say there was no plan. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Amos Date: 03 Feb 06 - 12:05 AM Washington -- Responsibility for the government's bungled response to Hurricane Katrina extends widely but begins at the top of the Bush administration, which failed before the storm to name a White House, homeland security or other senior aide in command of the looming disaster, congressional investigators reported Wednesday. Four years after the Sept. 11, attacks, administration officials did not establish a clear chain of command for the domestic emergency; disregarded early warnings of a Category 5 hurricane inundating New Orleans and southeast Louisiana; and did not ensure that cities and states had adequate plans and training before the Aug. 29 storm, according to the Government Accountability Office. "A single individual -- directly responsible and accountable to the president of the United States -- should be dedicated to act as the central focal point to lead and coordinate the overall federal response," GAO chief David Walker said, summarizing preliminary findings from 30 pending Katrina-related studies. The blistering report represents the first official findings on the government's performance in Katrina. It is the first of a series of reviews in coming weeks that are expected to fix blame and refocus scrutiny on the administration's handling of the nation's costliest natural disaster, which killed 1,307 people and caused more than $150 billion in damage along the Gulf Coast. ... (SFO Chroniclle) |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 03 Feb 06 - 12:40 AM The plan is laughable. It was never more than a piece of paper. No 'Office of emergency preparedness' was ever set up and no federal coordinators were on site. In order to implement the plan, federal, state, parish and city governments would have to agree to change and coordinate regulations in order to act in concert. The City and parishes could not afford to spend the sums necessary. Perhaps more important, the political rift between south Louisiana and the rest of the state would have to be resolved before actions could be contemplated and money appropriated. Like most cities, New Orleans is always playing catch-up, since taxes barely cover expenses. The plan completely ignores federal responsibility under Title 33 for protection along the waterways. Even if this cloud 8 1/2 plan had been well along, there is no way a city- any major city- could be evacuated in the lead time given. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 03 Feb 06 - 08:25 AM No, Old Guy, apparently we still ain't on the same page and they way you keep gloassing over the rerality of Katrina like it was a debate over how many angels can stand on the end of a pin, it is unlikely that you can be brou7ght around to reality... Most cities have Offices of Emergency Preparednesses... Big deal... Like I said, they are for managable disasteres. Katrina wasn't a managable disaster at the local level and based on ther damage to Mississippi it wasn't even managable on the state level.. Maybe you remembwer after 9/11 the issue of "first reponders" and the mayors and governors pleaded with Bush to put his money where hios mouth was in funding them... Yeah, Bush didn't mind pumping out his chest and boasting about "protecting Americans" but he wrote checks to local and states like man with no arms... Thus, Katrina.. And thus, the buck is finding it's way where it belongs... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Dazbo Date: 03 Feb 06 - 09:01 AM Don't know if this is repeating anything from above (forgive me if I haven't got the time to read this mighty tome) but on the BBC last night there was a programme on New Orleans and Katrina. Some of the points raised on the telly by the talking heads were: The building of the levees didn't take into account the soil, which is a soft clay likened to playdough, and as a result the levees were a lot weaker than they were planned to be. Due to man's intervention the coastal marshes and islands that have attenuated the power of hurricans in the past have been lost making the city even more vulnerable. The Corps of Engineers don't have the mandate of the government (Senate or Congress - I can't remember) or the money to rebuild the levees to anything other than what was there before Katrina (i.e. the same strength as those that failed). That large areas of the city that were destroyed shouldn't be rebuilt, especially as the hurricanes are currently getting bigger, stronger and more frequent. The more reclamation that gets done the more vunlerable the city becomes (less protection from the weather and lowering the ground level even more due to the pumping out of the ground water behind the levees). It was horrifying to see just how devastated New Orleans is now the flood waters have been pumped out. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 03 Feb 06 - 02:26 PM Guest Dazbo- mostly right. 1. It seems that soil tests were inadequate. They are now bringing in better quality clay from the Gulf and tests are being carried out. 2. Yes, the marshlands are decreasing at an alarming rate. Not only does this threaten the City, but valuable breeding grounds for aquatic and terrestrial life are lost. 3. The Corps of Engineers are responsible for building and maintaining the levees along navigable waterways, but- U. S. Congress must authorize the funds. And not only must Congress authorize the funds, but there are several committees and agencies that oversee the spending. These agencies can hold up expenditures almost indefinitely. 4. Various plans call for the restoration of parts of St. Bernard and Jefferson Parishes to marshland. A report due in April (?) will have maps incorporating recommendations. How these plans will be implemented, revised or ignored will be the subject of long debate. 5. Not only pumping of the water from underground, but pumping of oil caused lowering of ground level. Moreover, natural compaction of the soft, clayey sediments over time is a large contributor. 6. "New Orleans" is a metropolitan ares extending over three parishes. The greatest damage was in the Ninth and parts of the Seventh wards in the core area, and in St. Bernard Parish. These were the areas most affected by the failure of levees and walls along navagable waterways. Estimates vary on how much housing was destroyed (cannot be reclaimed); perhaps 60% in the Ninth ward, 30-40% in the southern part of the Seventh Ward. Until a complete survey, house-by-house, is compiled, these figures will continue to vary. Areas of the City to the west and also south (Gretna, etc.) of the river sustained some wind damage, but most housing was not seriously affected. Until the government assessment maps are completed (late Spring?), an accurate numerical assesment of the damage cannot be made. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Teribus Date: 04 Feb 06 - 02:24 PM Refresh: "Oh Please Don't let poor Nelly die" The "Nellie" in this case being the only stated example of a thread where Bobert proclaimed that he has done his homework, but as yet has singularly failed to prove it. As such this thread should in all sincerity be preserved for posterity. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Amos Date: 04 Feb 06 - 02:33 PM Tsk, tsk, T. There's plenty of material for your needs here. Resorting to slurs on Bobert, well, it's just beneath you. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,G Date: 04 Feb 06 - 05:20 PM Two words, Bobert; Cat Scan. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 04 Feb 06 - 06:25 PM Thanks fir the usual attacks, mild as they are, G-zer and T-zer... Must mean that I still got both of you wondering how to defend Bush and hios administartion against the arguments I put forth, ohhhh, well over three hundred posts ago... To which, BTW, I have yet to get an honest rebuttal... Lots of attacks, however, which is good... No, it's real, real good 'cause it means that you guys don't have any defense... And given the recent GAO reports, I don't blame you all for sand-baggin'... I would too if I was trying to defend Bush and his boys on this one... Yeah, I would be doing Mohammed Ali's rope-a-too, too... But, neither of you two have good poker faces.... Not does old Guy... But I admire you fir satying in the game knowing deep inside that the old hillbilly got the strongest hand here... So keep attacking... I love it... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 06 Feb 06 - 05:48 PM Saw in the New York Times that many people are asking for, and getting re-assessment of the percentage damage to their houses. According to the guidelines, if a house is deemed to have more than 50% damage, it should be destroyed. Most people who have appealed, however, have succeeded in getting the percentage of damage reduced to under 50%, so they can go ahead and repair and rebuild. FEMA, etc., want the houses to be above a certain elevation so that they are unlikely to be flooded again, but there is no such requirement in City regulations. What the outcome will be is up in the air at this time. FEMA is too slow with their evalutions and plans, and is losing credibility. People are just going ahead and doing their thing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 06 Feb 06 - 08:26 PM Trying to breath any life back into a gutted FEMA is like giving a transfusion to a dead man... Bush and his boys drove a stake right thru FEMA's heart in bustin' it from a cabinet level posotion and slashing it's budget... And now we are hearing that Bush doesn't want to spend the dough to get the levee's up to Cat 5??? Well, yeah, if the feds ain't gonna do what they are supposed to do in getting the levves up to Cat 5 then, hey, even I would qustion rebuilding in the 9th Ward and other low areas... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 06 Feb 06 - 10:01 PM Bush baby mentioned that $85 billion for Katrina again in his state of the onion address, but so far it doesn't look like any has gone to rebuilding levees, hospitals, or housing. FEMA, is still alive enough to make noises, but it will become road kill before too long. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 06 Feb 06 - 10:07 PM Yeah, Q, Bush brags about allm this dough that he's budgeteed for Katrina but of the $85B he ain't written checks yet for much more than $15B... When the smoke clears this will be like rebuilding Iraq... And we know how that is coming.... Might of fact, Bush announced that he's all done rebuilding Iraq even though he never really spent too much rebuilding it to begin with... Heck, I'd be surprised to see the Bush folks spend $30B in total before saying, "Sorry, ain't our problem..." |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 10 Feb 06 - 08:41 AM Well, well, well.... Looks as if time lines and organization/funding issues are about to come 'round the bend as Michale Brown is set to testify yet again... Unless he changes his testimony, maybe a few of the Bushi8tes will have to pay a little closer attention this time around... One thing for sure, since the last testimony, the Bush-bloggers have had months to twist the lies into a more believable "product"... Oughtta be interesting... At least this time the Bushites here in Mudville will have their talking points to go by which hasn't been the case up until now with the obvious floundering on their part... Bobert (Columbo) |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,P Date: 10 Feb 06 - 10:36 AM I was thrilled to hear Michael Brown would 'sing' about the 'who cares' attitude the White House had to storm. But then I realized, he's not going to sing. He's just extorting Bush to cover his legal fees. That sterling character is really coming through again. You find yourself unable to tell children to work hard and be honest, and they'll do well in life. They won't. They'll wind up laid off or left to die by creeps like Brown and Bush. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Amos Date: 10 Feb 06 - 12:12 PM (CBS/AP) Top Department of Homeland Security officials were told that New Orleans' levees were breached the day that Hurricane Katrina roared ashore, former disaster chief Michael Brown said Friday, contradicting previous statements by agency officials who said they did not know the levees were toppling until the next day. "I find it a little disingenuous," Brown, who at the time headed the Federal Emergency Management Agency, told a Senate oversight committee. "For them to claim that we didn't have awareness of it is just baloney." Brown also told senators that decisions and policies by the parent Homeland Security Department doomed FEMA to "a path to failure" that led to the government's slow response to the storm. He said that because of a focus on terrorism, natural disasters "had become the stepchild of the Department of Homeland Security." Brown, who quit under fire as chief of the FEMA just days after the Aug. 29 storm devastated much of the Gulf Coast area, said that FEMA's mission was marginalized when it was swallowed by the newly created Homeland Security agency. "There was a cultural clash that didn't recognize the absolute inherent science of preparing for a disaster," he told the Senate Homeland Security and Government Affairs Committee. "Any time you break that cycle ... you're doomed to failure." He added: "The policies and decisions implemented by the DHS put FEMA on a path to failure." Brown, who resigned shortly after the storm, is widely considered the public face of the government's sluggish response to Katrina. Brown is expected to start naming names of "who knew what the day Katrina hit," CBS News correspondent Susan Roberts reports. A management audit prepared by former FEMA Administrator Michael Brown months before the Aug. 29 storm showed that the agency had a lack of adequate and consistent situational awareness to size up emergencies, and was unable to properly control inventory and track assets, said Sen. Susan Collins, a Maine Republican heading the oversight hearing. The audit, she said, also showed that FEMA misunderstood standard response procedures. "Despite this study, key problems simply were not addressed and, as a result, opportunities to strengthen FEMA prior to Katrina were missed," she said. In documents released before Friday's hearings, twenty-eight government agencies reported that New Orleans levees were breached the day Hurricane Katrina roared ashore, raising questions about whether the government moved quickly enough to rescue people once they realized the levees had broken. ... COmplete article here. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Amos Date: 10 Feb 06 - 12:15 PM Also from CBS: A timeline of e-mails, situation updates and weather reports, pieced together by Senate Democrats, indicates the Bush administration knew as early as 8:30 a.m. on Aug. 29 about levee failures that would ultimately lead to massive flooding of the city and its surrounding parishes. White House spokesman Trent Duffy said President Bush and his top aides were fully aware of the massive flooding, and less concerned whether it was caused by levee breaches, overtoppings or failed pumps, all three of which were being reported at the time. "We knew there was flooding and that's why the No. 1 effort in those early hours was on search and rescue, and saving life and limb," Duffy said. Shortly after the disaster, Mr. Bush said, "I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees." He later said his comment was meant to suggest that there had been a false sense of relief that the levees had held when the storm passed, only to break a few hours later. Democrats said the documents showed there was little excuse for the tardy federal response. "The first communication came at 8:30 a.m.," said Senator Joe Lieberman, top Democrat on the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee. "So it is inexplicable to me how those responsible for the federal response could have woken up Tuesday morning unaware of this obviously catastrophic situation." .... Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm???? Mebbe hangovers? A |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 10 Feb 06 - 02:28 PM The New York Times also had the story today about the ignored message and the failure to move. Brown is showing the bush administration was critically negligent. The aerial photo, reproduced in the Times, shows the breaks in the 17th Street Canal, taken the day Katrina arrived by a federal emergency official, needs no words. A FEMA official heard of the break in the morning, hitched a ride on a helicopter and confirmed the seriousness of the break, then telephoned his report to headquarters in Washington. Chertoff received the report at 9:27 pm that night. White House officials have now confirmed that they received the report. The president is caught in his lie. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 10 Feb 06 - 05:54 PM Let me also refer back to Brown's earlier testimony before a Congressional comitte when he said he personally told Bush on Saturday, August ***27th****, that the Gulf Coast was about to be hit by upwards of a Cat 5 hurricane... Thias was two full days before the storm hit!!! What did Bush do??? Well, for one, he kept on vacationing... After that he flew to California for a little politicin'.... Might have even given his patented "My job is to protect the American people" BS/lie speech??? Coming up: The Natiional Response Plan that was written by Bush's inner circle... Yeah, the Bushites here haven't responded to my original thoughts on the NRP but.... What's the sound??? Can it be the NRP train coming 'round the bend??? Lordy, Lordy, thias is lookin' worser and worser for drunk-frat-boy and the inner circle... Bobert |
