BS: Caliphate

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Jul 14 - 06:36 PM

Bobad, I'v got your number. I'm not about to run off to do research to prove your theory that I happen to think is misguided. Do your own research. Better yet, let this one go.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: bobad
Date: 15 Jul 14 - 06:42 PM

It's not a theory it's a fact but since you've got my number I'd better let it go - you have the power here.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Jul 14 - 09:00 PM

The "powers" are likely after you, Boo, because they're anti-Semites, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: bobad
Date: 15 Jul 14 - 09:37 PM

Sure thing Greg, you bet.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Teribus
Date: 16 Jul 14 - 01:39 AM

Actual recorded fact in the matter of solutions proposed to establish the "Two-State" that Abbas says he is striving for comes down on the side of Bobad in this discussion.

Originally offered by the UN in 1947 the Jews of Palestine agreed to it and the Arabs of Palestine rejected it and encouraged by their Arab neighbours they elected to go to war with the express intention of "driving the Jews of Palestine off their land and into the sea". The importance of this is that as one side rejected the proposals there are no fixed boundaries, there are no "official borders" that any party in this conflict agree to - until there are then no meaningful negotiations can take place. Another important facet of this from the perspective of the Arabs of Palestine centres around divisions in their own ranks. Back in 1947 half of the Arabs of Palestine split along tribal lines followed the self-styled Grand Mufti of Jerusalem in wanting a separate Arab Palestine, while the other half wanted the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan to annex Palestine (The latter actually gained something out of the war of 1948 in that the Jordanians invaded and occupied East Jerusalem and the West Bank areas of Palestine - in 1967 the Israelis liberated those areas and drove the Jordanian occupiers out restoring the land to Palestine).

Those who have agreed peace deals with Israel since 1949 and who have honoured those agreements have never subsequently been attacked by Israel. Those who have not and who harbour terrorists who continue to attack Israel and her people are, quite rightly attacked.

The latest "ceasefire" was agreed to by Israel and renounced by Hamas - TRUE?

Let them get on with it, they have had 67 years to sort it out and failed each and every time, fight on and be done with it.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Musket
Date: 16 Jul 14 - 02:37 AM

This thread and the similar one are a La la land equivalent of what goes on in the real world.

Israel has far too many blinkered apologists for them to engage in real peace negotiations and the Palestinians have been kicked to fuck and let down so often, the world shouldn't really scratch it's head when they match the Israelis in sabre rattling and voting for hard nosed militants to sort this.

Just like in the real world, point out how disgraceful Israeli forces are being and you are accused of being a fan of the holocaust.

The likes of Bobad and beardedbruce have an agenda. Michael and, when he gets back, Keith like supporting any agenda if people such as Jim or I don't like it.

Sigh.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Jul 14 - 03:15 AM

"fight on and be done with it."
Yeah - lets kill them all because politicians can'r get it right.
By that logic, we'd all be a long time dead.
These are civilians - men women and children being slaughtered - and this has been the case from the beginning; slaughtered refugees, homes razed to the ground, ordinary men, women and children going about their daily lives being bombarded and showered on by flesh-eating chemicals, daily humiliation by uniformed thugs... fuck them all because politicians cannot arrive at a situation where two groups of people cannot live together in peace.
Yeah - let the Israelis bomb them into the Stone-Age - they have the capability, and they seem to have the will.
This sort of chocolate-soldier 'humanity really does suck!
Jim Carroll

From Yesterday's Irish Times;
"I WOULD RATHER DIE AT HOME": residents prepare for threatened onslaught.
CASUALTY FIGURES RISE AS ISRAEL CLAIMS PRACTICES 'CAREFUL' AND 'HUMANE'
IN AN AREA THAT IS HOME TO BETWEEN 70,00 AND 100,00 PEOPLE, THE ISRAELI WARNING HAS CAUSED WIDESPREAD FEAR.

In a side street in Gaza's Shati camp, an Israeli warning missile has just "knocked on the roof of Alaa Hadeedi's house, filling the road with a thin mist of smoke. A few ambulances have rushed to the scene and are waiting 100m or so from the house. Behind them, a crowd of wary neighbours gather to watch.
There is a sudden shout as someone hears the sound of the second missile - a live bomb this time - and the crowd surges backwards. Alaa Hadeedi's house explodes in a billowing cloud of concrete and wood fragments.
A driver by trade, Alaa Ha-deedi - who was not at home when the missile hit - stored gasoline inside his house. It ignites in an orange fireball.
This is the reality of Israel's campaign of house destructions: a missile fired into a street in which perhaps 150 people are gathered barely 100m from the target; people anxious to help and equally anxious about their shops and houses.
According to al-Mezan, a Gaza-based Palestinian human rights group, in the past week 869 Palestinian homes have been destroyed or damaged in similar Israeli attacks that have also claimed the lives of 173 people, many of them civilians. Even as talk of a ceasefire is growing, the attacks by both sides continue.

COLLATERAL DAMAGE
The way the Israeli military tells it, "knocking on the roof is a careful and humane practice, its drone operators and pilots holding back against the risk of collateral damage. But too often it is not careful, as the civilian death toll from the last week of attacks on Gaza attests.
A mile or so from Alaa Hadeedi's house, in the same Shati neighbourhood, Dr Nasser Ta¬tar, director general of Gaza's largest medical facility, the Shi-fa hospital, is examining the ruins of his house and of his private clinic.
He says he had just returned to his family on Sunday night after working a week straight at an overwhelmed hospital short of resources. "We've had tens of deaths and hundreds of injured. I needed to be at the hospital," he says. "It was just after the time for breaking the Rama¬dan fast at 7.50pm.
"The IDF called my nephew with a 10-minute warning saying that they planned to destroy my house. Because it took him several minutes to find me, it was less than 10 minutes. I got my family out quickly and warned my neighbours to take care. Then they hit my house with a rocket and then a second."
He walks through the destruction, picking up a book left on his consulting desk now covered in dust, and examines the tangled crater at the centre of his gutted home.
"I'm at a loss to explain why they did this," says 59-year-old Tatar. "I have been a doctor for 30 years. First I was a cardiologist, then head of cardiology, then director general. I have tried to reach out through channels to find out why this happened, but I've had no reply."
It is not only individuals who are feeling the impact of Israel's campaign but now whole communities, after Israel on Sunday advised the residents of large areas of the north of Gaza - which it says is the site of rocket launches - to leave before a threatened large-scale attack. In an area that is home to be¬tween 70,000 and 100,000 people, the warning has caused widespread fear and panic.
Farmers
On the edge of Attatra, a mile or so from the Israeli border and one of the threatened areas, Hiba Abu Halima, 34, is walking with her sister. "We left yesterday before the 12 noon dead¬line," she says. "We moved to a UN school in Gaza City. But we are farmers. I wanted to come back with our brother to water the crops. So we returned at nine this morning. We are afraid because no one is here, ft was already too dangerous with the shelling and we were fright¬ened by what the Israelis said they planned to do."
There is a sharp detonation close by from a tank shell. Hiba's sister presses herself to the wall bolt upright, her face crumpling as she bursts into tears. A lift is offered back to Gaza City but the sister refuses. "My brother is back there," she says, sobbing. "I don't know where he is. I have to wait to see that he is safe."
Others from Gaza's north who fled on Sunday are now living in crowded UN schools that have been opened as shelters.
At the Alfakhoura school in Jab-aliya yesterday families were still arriving, boys carrying in their bedding balanced on their heads.
Outside a classroom turned into a dormitory, 56-year-old In-shira Salman is sitting with her family of 15. "We slept on the ground outside last night," she says. "All the rooms were full and we had no bedding. So we didn't sleep last night.
"We came here in a panic. We live in a village only 700m or so from the border, which they have been shelling. Yesterday we heard on the television and on the radio that the Israelis had said they planned to attack and we should leave. We were so worried that we left. We'll only go back when it is over."

HUMILIATED
Not everyone, however, is prepared to stay the duration of the war in the UN refuges. Back in Attatra, 42-year-old Yasser Kh-deir, an air conditioning engineer, is sitting outside his business with his son Faris (16) and other local boys.
He tells the story of Gaza's re¬cent wars, Israel's Operation Cast Lead in 2008-2009 and Operation Pillar of Defence in 2012. "My nephew was killed just up the road in 2012. During Cast Lead I spent 20 days living in a UN school. I won't do that again. It did not feel safe and I felt humiliated," he says.
"My wife and other children are in Gaza City but I wanted to come home. I am staying in my house because it is the only option. If I am killed, I would rather die at home."
(Guardian service)

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Teribus
Date: 16 Jul 14 - 03:33 AM

Christmas is really great at clipping isn't he, shortening:

"Let them {The Palestinians and the Israelis} get on with it, they have had 67 years to sort it out and failed each and every time, fight on and be done with it."

To: "fight on and be done with it." Coupled with the usual Christmas style "over-the-top-but-inaccurate-knee-jerk reaction":

Yeah - lets kill them all because politicians can'r get it right.

"lets" Christmas??? WTF

lets as in "let's" = Let us??? We ain't even in the fight so just who the F**K are we going to kill and why? The world and it's dog have been bustin' a gut since 1947 to get this settled and in the meantime the cancer of Islamofascism has spread. Using this idiotic conflict as an excuse militant Islam declared war on the West over 40 years ago.

Bloody right let THEM fight it out once and for all and get done with it, get it over and finished with.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Jul 14 - 03:44 AM

Islamofascism - sums up your brain-dead partisanship.
Kill them all and be done with it.
Yeah - we know all about that Terrytoon - save it for closing time - you are a friggin' caricature.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Jul 14 - 04:05 AM

It seems to me that the assertions from Teribus above rather support the view that the local inhabitants (apart from the Zionists) consistently opposed the Zionist land-grab.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Teribus
Date: 16 Jul 14 - 04:28 AM

"Kill them all and be done with it."

You advocating that solution Christmas? Because having read through what I have written I most certainly am NOT.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Jul 14 - 05:45 AM

"'course you're not"
You've just described them all as "Islamofascists"- who the **** are you suggesting should "fight on and be done with it" - the Palestinians whose homes are presently under attack from Israeli bombardment and inevitable annihilation - if not, who? (it's just been announced that it's re-started)
There's an insightful cartoon in this morning's paper showing a heavily armed and armoured Israeli soldier with a shield bearing the word "warmonger" about to kill a fish in a barrel - the fish is spitting back - sums it up really.
There is no doubt that, should it come to it, the Palestinian people are in no position to offer any resistance and will either be slaughtered or driven to join the five million or so refugees scattered all over the world
This has never been about 'defence, as far as Israel is concerned - go and look at the casualty figures down the years and see how they balance out - and see how many of them are non-combatants - particularly children.
For all the bluster about defence, so far, the casualties of these rocket attacks has been precisely none - that's what this overkill is defending the people of Israel from.
It's the serial school bully complaining that one of his victims "kicked me sir".
When it comes down to it, it's about two groups of people, each with equal rights to a territory, being led by messianic zealots.
Richard is right - when it comes to worms-eye level, people are people and are happy and willing to get along with each other, whatever their differences in culture and religion.
Encouraging them to slug it out would suit the Israeli regime down to the ground - survival of the richest, strongest and most aggressive.
All the bullshitting bar-room-bluster from a wannabe warrior doesn't alter that one iota.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Jul 14 - 06:15 AM

Be fair, Jim. I know you feel very strongly on this isuue, but please do not let your feelings carry you away.

I can't see how you can asset that T's statement that

"the cancer of Islamofascism has spread. Using this idiotic conflict as an excuse militant Islam declared war on the West over 40 years ago"

equates to "You've just described them all as "Islamofascists"'. What "all"? He was saying was that those Islamists, whom he has specifically described as the "militant" part of Islam [which they clearly are, or else they wouldn't be doing whatever it is they are doing] who commit such enormities as 9/11, 7/7/ &c, have fascist temdencies which they have been displaying in various attacks for 40 years. Again, who are the 'all' whom you accuse him of applying the name to. It's clear that it only the destructive militants that he labels thus.

You are quick enough yourself to fling words like "fascist" and "Nazi" and such about in application to those of whose views and activities you disapprove. It has, as you know, been a big bone of contention between us for some time. Why should you deny him the right to apply a similar name where he deems it appropriate?

Sauce for the goose and all that...

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: beardedbruce
Date: 16 Jul 14 - 07:21 AM

Jim is "special".


The rules that have to apply to the rest of us do not apply to him.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Jul 14 - 07:25 AM

"You are quick enough yourself to fling words like "fascist" and "Nazi"
So are Jews and non-Jews alike - you have never responded to any of those Mike - how about doing so now?
If he is suggesting that battle should commence - who is he referring to if not the Arab people as a whole
That the Palestinians should have expressed an opposition to Israel from the start cuts both ways, from the time Israeli "freedom fighters" went through the villages hurling grenades into occupied houses in order to create a "Jewish State" - that, for me has too much of the "Aryan people" ring to it as far as I am concerned.
If one side is wrong, both are.
At the present time we are talking about whether the Israelis should be allowed to bomb the Palestinian people as a whole into submission in order to return to the good old days of ghettoisation, blockade, Berlin walls and gradual but inevitable total displacement
Sure, Hamas isn't doing any favours to to Palestinians, in fact all it seems to be achieving is to give Israel a chance for stepping up its militarism, but it really doesn't need that anyway.
Don't let my feelings carry me away - sorry - none of us have any answers here, and certainly, we have no say over what is happening - al we are left with are our right to express what we feel.
The last place I would look for advice is a wannaba goose-stepper who probably couldn't pass the intelligence entry test if he tried (does the army have one of those?)
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Jul 14 - 08:15 AM

OK Jim -- you know I agree substantially, esp such as 'If one side is wrong, both are.' But you know my passion for accuracy; and I still think you were mistaken in accusing him of calling all of them by that particular designation when it was perfectly clear that he had only meant a particular, specific, part of the demographic. I still don't know quite what you meant by that "all" whom you accused him of denouncing but it's probably not worth your while explicating. Meanwhile I am not engaging further in this particular exchange; it was only that particular [what seemed to me] unwarranted accusation I was engaging with.

Best

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Jul 14 - 11:21 AM

Sorry Mike - I asked who he was referring to when he said, "let them get on with it" - the only reply I received was a typo correction.
This is part of a long-running diatribe from this unpleasant individual - apart from attacks on long-dead parents, he even showed us all his gun one time to prove his manhood - a real piece of work.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: pdq
Date: 16 Jul 14 - 11:43 AM

Hamas is not a political organization in the normal sense of the term.

They were not formed to provide competent leadership over their people.

They were formed to wage jihad on Israel and kill Jews.


"According to Abraham Foxman of the Anti-Defamation League, 'The Hamas credo is not just anti-Israel, but profoundly anti-Semitic with racism at its core. The Hamas Charter reads like a modern-day Mein Kampf.' According to the charter, Jewish people 'have only negative traits and are presented as planning to take over the world.' The charter claims that the Jews deserve God's/Allah's enmity and wrath because they received the Scriptures but violated its sacred texts, disbelieved the signs of Allah, and slew their own prophets. 'The Day of Judgement will not come until Muslims fight the Jews, when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say, 'O Muslims, O Abdullah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him."

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Musket
Date: 16 Jul 14 - 11:54 AM

So.. This objective observer called Abraham.......

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: beardedbruce
Date: 16 Jul 14 - 12:09 PM

Musket,

We have quoted the Hamas Charter from the Hamas website. If you do not care to accept something that THEY state, I see no reason to even bother discussing anything with you- You obviously are not open to facts.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 16 Jul 14 - 12:11 PM

"So.. This objective observer called Abraham......."
Is there a point to your unfinished post? Or are you really just trying to get us to finish your thought. Do you have anything to factually refute what was posted? Guess not, or you would have.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Jul 14 - 12:35 PM

Wanted Poster.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Jul 14 - 01:37 PM

The Abraham post said it all. Not partial (says someone not partial to the petty bickering that so amused Data, said Tom wholesomely).

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 04:48 AM

So.. This objective observer with a Jewish sounding name...

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 09:09 AM

So, Musket,

We will now discount ALL statements and reports from those with either Jewish OR Arab sounding names, regardless of the factual basis that they present.


That IS what you are saying, isn't it? Or is it JUST statements by those with Jewish sounding names that should be ignored?

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 09:20 AM

That IS what you are saying, isn't it?

Idiot.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Musket
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 09:21 AM

Keep going beardbruce. All the sympathisers of Israeli terrorism on this and the other thread have failed to see the irony.

Which proves my point...

By the way, nice of the Israelis to give notice. A trick they learned from The IRA.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Ed T
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 09:28 AM

Some folks say that views on the Israel-Hamas issue has nothing to do with anyone having anti-jewish vuews.
Then there us a suggestion that news from someone with a Jewish sounding name is suspect as being biased, or grounds alone for it not being reliable?

Puzzling?

Should, or can, we have it both ways?

Like with many folks worldwide, because of name changes, history, sharing of names worldwide etc., it would be an inexact exercise to guess at ones ethnic or religious background, or political beliefs, from their names alone.


Resources 

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 09:45 AM

Not according to Musket, who even GregF calls an idiot.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 09:47 AM

By the way, nice of the Israelis to give notice. A trick they learned from The IRA.

You would prefer them no to??
You are very ignorant of these issues Musket.
The requirement to give adequate warning before an attack that might endanger civilians is written into international law.
Israel seeks to comply.
Hamas flouts it.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Ed T
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 09:53 AM

Please do not get me wrong, from my last post. I am not taking sides on tgis issue, not attempting to target anyone here.So, no need to either blast me, nor harbour resentment to be used in a future thread response on another unrelated topic.

My perspective on dumb statements:

We all say dumb things on occasion, (I am in this group)and more likely so in the heat of an emotional discussion. When we do so, it "looks better on us" when we admit it was so and everyone can then move on to more fruitful discussion. On the other perspective, there comes a time to move on from identifying and dwelling a dumb statement. Others likely noticed it-dwelling on it just reflects on you as being argumentative, not reinforcing the dumb statement itself.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 10:00 AM

Giving 100,000 non-combatant civilians notice of a lethal bombardment of their homes, irrespective of age, health, mobility or alternative shelter is is murder, plain and simple.
It has already been suggested as a massive war crime, should it take place - the fact that such an act is even being considered is an indication of the depravity of such an act, whether it takes place or not.
A letter form the Palestinian Ambassador, to the Irish Times in response to one by the Israeli Ambassador defending such an act points out that while Israel has places of shelter for its people, Gaza has none.
So far, the Palestinian death toll is 200 plus, 20% of these children, while Israeli casualties remain precisely none.
Murder, plain and simple
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 10:06 AM

"So far, the Palestinian death toll is 200 plus, 20% of these children, while Israeli casualties remain precisely none."

A false statement, but I am sure that ONE dead Jew is not enough to make Jim happy.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 10:26 AM

"So far, the Palestinian death toll is 200 plus, 20% of these children, while Israeli casualties remain precisely none."

Jesus, Jim, since you're so hung up on death statistics, let's get it right! From various news sources, one being CNN, I kept hearing, yesterday, that one Israeli had been killed. Does that make you feel better, sir?

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Musket
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 11:05 AM

{Sigh} As we are debating with people of limited intelligence, it is sometimes reasonable to point out what you put rather than expect understanding...

If you don't they hilariously waffle on as if you said it at face value. The others think you might have said something or have a view. That's the problem with internet chat, you can't see me waving wanker signs at you whilst taking the piss.

Beardedbruce, PooBad, Keith, Michael etc love to judge people as being Hamas if they are Palestinian. I take the piss out of this by pointing out that a bloke called Abraham can't be objective. Ask your carer to look up satire in her dictionary.

Right.

Keith talks of legal bombing of civilians. I know he has no idea of military matters, but even a wannabe soldier might cringe at that..

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 11:22 AM

BeardedBruce said A false statement, but I am sure that ONE dead Jew is not enough to make Jim happy.

BB, that is sick, and you need help.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 11:24 AM

Having read JIM"S posts, HE is the one who is sick.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 11:25 AM

"that one Israeli had been killed"
Whoops - missed that one - that changes things completely!!
No - it doesn't make me feel better - as far as I am concerned, this is about dead people, not "statistics" (interesting choice of word) and I don't give a shit what religion colour or taste in ties is, they are all human beings - which is why I believe a conference table where a conclusion which will accommodate every single individual concerned is the only answer.
"ONE dead Jew is not enough to make Jim happy"
I'm sure the Palestinian dead has fallen far short of your obvious wishes Brucie, but the Israelis are doing their best - don't lose hope just yet.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 11:46 AM

-- "statistics" (interesting choice of word) --

Well you're the one who keeps bringing up the numbers, Jim, I just used the appropriate term for that type of number. I expect you, and those who agree with you, will keep bring up statistics as long as these threads last.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 11:46 AM

"every single individual concerned is the only answer."
Whoops - far too idealistic and unobtainable - should have written,
"will tace into consideration the views and interests of all sides in this dispute.
Can't please all of the people all of the time
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 11:47 AM


Keith talks of legal bombing of civilians. I know he has no idea of military matters, but even a wannabe soldier might cringe at that..

(Sigh)
You expose your ignorance yet again.


Under the Geneva Conventions, as well as customary international law, if
a military objective, such as a missile launcher or weapons stockpile, is
placed in the heart of a civilian area, it does not cease being a lawful
military objective. The primary responsibility for civilian causalities arising
from the 'shielding' lies with the party that deliberately placed civilians at
risk.



International law also requires that any military operation be 'proportionate'
in the sense that expected collateral damage to civilians and civilian
objects must not be excessive in relation to the military advantage
anticipated. This is a complex and difficult calculation and international law
relies on the best determination of the commander in the field in the heat
of the conflict to weigh all relevant considerations, including the security of
his own forces.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Musket
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 12:31 PM

Bombing where you know there are civilians is a war crime.

It was when Bomber Harris and Churchill did it too, but victors dictate victory.

Aiming at schools, hospitals, residential areas and beaches full of playing children. As much as Geneva isn't my favourite city, I don't think even they would wish to be associated with Israel's response to the response to their oppression of neighbours.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 12:37 PM

"Bombing where you know there are civilians is a war crime.
"

YOU mean EXCEPT when the civilians are Israelis.

At least that is what you seem to be saying, supporting the Hamas War Crimes and declaring they the legal response by the Israelis is a war crime because the Gaza Government, under Hamas, discourages any attempt to move civilians out of attack zones, and specifically put legitimate military targets so as to maximize the Palestinian civilian casualties.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 12:40 PM

The United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) has demanded "full respect for the sanctity of its premises" after discovering 20 rockets hidden in a vacant school in the Gaza Strip.

The organisation said it "strongly condemned" those responsible for placing weapons inside the building, in what it described as a "flagrant violation of the inviolability of its premises under international law".

The incident is the first of its kind in Gaza, the group added, and comes as a five-hour humanitarian ceasefire expired. The end was marked by renewed cross-border fighting, as officials dismissed reports of a new truce agreement.

The UNRWA said: "This incident endangered civilians including staff and put at risk UNRWA's vital mission to assist and protect Palestine refugees in Gaza.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 12:48 PM

Bombing where you know there are civilians is a war crime.

Wrong Musket.
Civilians must not be targeted, but with certain provisos (warnings etc.), military targets may be attacked even if civilian casualties are likely.
http://www.icrc.org/eng/resources/documents/misc/57jpzn.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 01:22 PM

Oh, good, FA - then lets bomb the living crap out of those civilians.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 01:30 PM

In areas where civilians are concentrated, clearly-separated military objectives should n ot be treated as a single military objective. Unless circumstances do not permit it, each party to the conflict shall give an effective advance warning prior to an attack which may affect the civilian population.

In some cases, civilians and prisoners are used as human shields to protect military objectives from attack. In others, the red cross or the red crescent emblem is used to mislead the enemy and conduct military actions. Simulation of protected status by using the red cross, the red crescent, UN or other protective emblems are considered as acts of perfidy, amounting to a grave breach of humanitarian law.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 05:39 PM

That sounds contorted enough to be original Bruce bullshit! Now lets see if he can render that in comprehensible English.

Unless its the usual un-attributed C&P.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 07:03 PM

BB is quoting from the International Committee of the Red Cross Greg.
The English is completely comprehensible to anyone with a basic education and a modicum of intelligence.
Perhaps that is your problem Greg.

The link was just given in my post.
Do you need help in using it Greg dear?

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: GUEST,Mrr
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 08:02 PM

If you are a civilian and you know they are bombing you why are you at the beach?