England's National Musical-Instrument?

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 03:47 PM

And this also applies to Volgadon - who once got annoyed when I, without any one-up-manship, politely told him how to make a link here.

Stop the this also applies nonsense and answer my questions or is it because you are afraid that you avoid answering.
I didn't get annoyed, but it wass totally irellevant, I asked about italics. Blickies don't work for me on this computer, even though I knew how to make them years before you joined. All this is smokescreen. Answer Pip's questions and mine, please.

PLEASE ANSWER THIS, WITHOUT EVADING AND IGNORING IT.

"Now Wav, do you think that just anybody would be asked to edit the revised edition of the Penguin book of English Folksongs?
And guess who is on the cover.
Take a good look at the picture.
http://www.mustrad.org.uk/reviews/cefs.htm

But what is Israeli music, Wav, and doesn't that come into conflict with your statement that goes along the lines of the tradition is people doing things the way their ancestors did? Mine aren't from Israel.

Do you consider imperialism to be forcing a set of ideas or a way of life on someone? Don't you dare answer with I hate all imperialism be it Victorian or Nazi, we've heard that, but it doesn't tell us what you consider imperialism to be.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: catspaw49
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 04:51 PM

Once again, Granny this time, you have been given CLEAR instructions. For any discussion to continue, you must answer the 7 questions asked by Pip in the simple format as described. Granny and I have each given the same instruction. Follow it. Posts in any other format will be considered non-responsive and struck as such.

Spaw

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 05:00 PM

Like the cat who ate the cheese and breathed into the mouse hole, I, too, wait with baited breath.

Are you there, David, or are you cowering under your bed?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Volgadon Says Answer Pip!!!!
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 05:13 PM

Wav, are you going to answer Pip, or are you afraid to do so? If so, why.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 05:26 PM

WaV - What exactly is "economic/capitalist immigration"?

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: s&r
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 06:44 PM

Does the green writing refer to WAV or the post.

Anyway I think it may be counterproductive as he will doubtless claim that his full and frank response was removed by some mudelf with malicious intent.

Stu

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Tootler
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 07:09 PM

I wish said mudelf would remove him from this forum altogether, with or without malicious intent.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: catspaw49
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 08:48 PM

We're waiting Wavylass......Just seven answers in order.

I suggest that until Wavy answers and proves otherwise or owns up we all respond with:

WAV=RACIST-BIGOT

and nothing else.....Two words til we get 7 answers. And this on ANY THREAD Wavy posts to until he answers and proves he can actually carry on discussion.

Spaw

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 04:02 AM

I was certain I posted this last night; wonder what happened? I think it holds some pretty profound lessons for us all...I just haven't figured out what they are yet. :D


Albi the Racist Dragon

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Stu
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 04:18 AM

I'm guessing because this thread is beginning to look rather ugly in intent - more like a lynch mob than a debate.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 04:21 AM

How can you conduct a debate when the racist dragon is incapable of doing so because he cannot see the need?
Yes, there are lessons for all.
Jelly beans are worth a try.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 04:22 AM

Well, as my post was intended precisely as a response to the ever-increasing ugliness, I'm still at a loss to understand why it was removed. Unless, of course, the gnome did so without following the link to find out what it was actually about...

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 04:51 AM

you're right - I misssed it. Apologies to gnomes and such.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 06:11 AM

"There are lessons for us all here:

Wavey the racist dragon...?"...false and defamatory language from Ruth Archer/Joan Crumb who works for the National Council - who, in my opinion, should have words with her.

Volgadon (who somehow reposted what has been deleted?!): I'm no expert on Israeli music (although Inbal Dor has been on my myspace Top Friends for ages)...but am surprised that you seem to be suggesting there is no such thing?...

Granma of the "saggy old tits" - "Not sure what you Australians call it" (Granma)...so I have to repeat repeat that I'm an English repat - actually born in Manchester the day Alf Ramsey's English team won the world cup of football.

Don - "Are you there, David, or are you cowering under your bed?"...so I'm not allowed any kip nor to attend a folk club or a "Bare Knuckle Poetry Slam"!

Catspaw - more false and defamatory language from one who has both whinged about being deleted and almost pleaded for Mudcat to host my website.

Diane - more false and defamatory language: I'VE ONLY QUESTIONED THE ACT OF IMMIGRATION ITSELF - NOT WHERE IMMIGRANTS COME FROM/NOT ANY PARTICULAR CULTURE OR RACE!

"Look, David, I'm asking you a straight question. I know that this is stuff that you've talked about before, but I want to get you to state what your beliefs actually are. Ideally I'd like you to think about what your beliefs actually are, although I realise that may be a bit much to ask.

Never mind the UN. Never mind 'from now on'. Just answer the questions" (Pip)...yes it IS stuff I've talked about before!...and this is not a bit rich but very rich from the one who, I'm almost certain, earlier told me not to answer off-thread questions and asked for the "5000 Morris Dancers" thread to be placed in the BS section, for that very reasong...can you confirm it was you Pip - to save hours of trawling.

Now for those who cannot fathom -

David, let me put it like this. Is it true that England is currently a multi-cultural country? YES - THERE HAS BEEN NOW 50 YEARS OF MASS IMMIGRATION (MOSTLY ECONOMIC WHICH, SMOKEY, IS INTERCHANGEABLE WITH CAPITALIST IMMIGRATION - PEOPLE LEAVING THEIR LAND FOR A BETTER LIFE/TO GET RICH, ETC.).

Do you believe that trying to have a multiple number of cultures living under the one state law will always cause problems? YES - AS YOU DO KNOW.

Do you therefore believe that England should not be a multi-cultural country? ECONOMIC/CAPITALIST (NOT ALL) IMMIGRATION SHOULD STOP, AND THERE SHOULD BE ASSIMILATION INTO ENGLISH CULTURE AND VALUES - WHY COME TO ENGLAND IF AGAINST SUCH WAYS?

Is it true to say that cultures are carried, lived and perpetuated by people? YES

Do you therefore believe that people who don't have an English culture should not come to England? NO - BUT THOSE WHO DO (AS GENUINE ASSYLUM SEEKERS TO WHOM ENLAND IS THEIR NEAREST/ONE OF THEIR NEAREST SAFE COUNTRIES, E.G.,) SHOULD MAKE AN EFFORT TO LEARN THE LANGUAGE AND ASSIMILATE, AS ABOVE. (AND THIS IS HARDLY RADICAL - AFTER ALMOST A DECADE OF PRO-IMMIGRATIONISM AND PRO-DIVERSITY, EVEN NEW LABOUR ARE LEANING THIS WAY, WITH ENGLISH TESTS, ETC.)

Do you also believe that it would have been preferable if people who don't have an English culture had not come to England in the past? I BELIEVE IT WOULD BE BETTER IF THE ABOVE HAD COME INTO PRACTISE EARLIER.

Do you specifically believe that England would have been a better place if there had not been large-scale immigration of non-Europeans over the last 50 years? LARGE-SCALE IMMMIGRATION PER SE.

Now - what about Ralphie refusing to answer my reasonable request - NOT a threat and repeated 3 times above?! I.e.: my myspace music is so bad that he doesn't want me to attend his folk club - so, since I remain a keen English folkie, he better tell me which folk club it is...

Now, back on thread: at that above site, you may see and hear my beloved tenor recorder/English flute/"little organ" (William Shakespeare, Hamlet), which, to drop a clanger, is, in my opinion, a definite rival to the bell as Englands national musical instrument...

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 06:52 AM

Wow.
A Response.
Blimey!
Will have to take a few minutes to try and work out what on earth he's talking about.
But a Response.....Praise the Lord!
My answer to Wav's poke at me.....
All Folk Clubs are my club. And I doubt that you would be welcome at any of them.
There is not one specific club (Mind You the Rising Sun in Catford might do, but it shut down in the late 70's.....Whops forgot, you hadn't discovered music then, had you?)

OK Mr Radish.
Over to you for your response.
Looking forward to it!!

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Woody
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 07:05 AM

From BNP website in section About Us: Policies & Manifesto

we call for an immediate halt to all further immigration...
We will also clamp down on the flood of 'asylum seekers', all of whom are either bogus or can find refuge much nearer their home countries.


British People's Party...

The dismantling of our enforced multi-racial society...
The replacement of all multi-cultural and alien art with natural, traditional British art forms


English Independence Party...


...restore a SINGLE, EXCLUSIVE ENGLISH CULTURE...
...positively RESTRICT THE INFLUENCE of American culture...
We believe the traditional role of men and women...
We will allow NO MORE IMMIGRATION into England...
We will apply our belief in the principle of monoculture by actively reestablishing English culture as the only basis for our arts and sports...


If it walks like a duck & if it quacks like a duck......

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Joseph P
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 07:13 AM

Everyone and everything is getting rather tetchy
so lets gett back to enjoying some rather nice poetry!

Who is to say
that I cant stay
In England, with my foreign paraphenalia
they said anyone who
plays the didgeridoo
should be sent to far-off Australia

At a session
I played it in
I thought it fitted rather well
Those tribal sounds
They travelled round
But I was told to play a bell! (more culturally suitable apparently)

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 07:50 AM

Asylum and immigration are not the same thing. From your responses above, what you want is severe restrictions on asylum and an end to immigration. Why be afraid to be transparent about this? Is it because you know it equates all too well with the ideologies of far-right parties, such as those quorted by Woody?

For what it's worth, I pointed out the similarities between WAV's philosophy and that spelled out on the BNP website many months ago.

They, too, claim not to be racist. No matter how many times they (or WAV) repeat it, it doesn't become any more true.

They, too, love the world being multicultural, just as long as everyone stays in their own country and doesn't come here to dilute and undermine English culture.

They, too, believe that "English culture has taken a hammering" thanks to the malign influence of the mass immigration of the past 50 years.


There you are WAV. If you're not racist, neither is the BNP. Personally, I don't believe either of you. NOTHING I have ever said to you is false or indeed defamitory - all I have ever sought to do where you are concerned is defend the folk culture I love from being harnessed to your twisted, insular, right-wing ideology. The fact that you are so blind that you cannot see your own dogma for what it is is not my problem, nor does it make it any less malignant.

If anyone wants to sack me from the folk police for this, they can have my bloody badge with pleasure.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: TheSnail
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 08:08 AM

People, you have to decide whether you are making a heroic stand for all that's right and good in the world or just hitting out at someone you find very annoying. He's like one of those knock down dolls that, no matter how hard you hit them, they always bounce back with a silly grin on their face.

I've been as guilty of WAV bashing as any but this has turned into bullying. Those who claimed that it is imperative to speak out against racism wherever it is found were conspicuously absent from the not bad for an englishman thread.

This is beginning to look like an undiciplined mob of adolescents haranguing the one kid who's a bit strange and different and they won't stop till they've reduced him to tears.

If you really want to oppose racism, Woody has given you a few pointers to the real thing above. WAV really isn't that important. If you stop responding, his threads will disappear below the horizon and be forgotten.

Grow up and walk away or admit that your real motivation is that you enjoy bashing WAV.

And WAV... listen and learn.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 08:19 AM

LOL......Hell Snail, I admitted that long ago. Yeah, he's racist and bigoted and its been fun having him admit it but I was enjoying it long before. See, Wavy enjoys it and has had great fun posting his "Life's Work" repeatedly ad nauseum so the tat for his tit is screwing around with him.

I'm just playing the dozens with an unarmed kid and having a great time. He's posting his crap and acting insulted and doing the same!   I just love that he thinks some of my early sarcastic posts were real. Not too hard to understand.   But for Wavy, its not easy......although his mother is.

Spaw

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 08:19 AM

I don't read every thread on Mudcat, and was unaware of the other thread you've pointed out. I was making this exact point with the Youtube link i posted earlier, actually - if you have a look at it, Snail, you'll see that.

My last post was a response to WAV's most recent points, and I believe it was perfectly valid as an attack on the beliefs, rather than the person.


From experience, and FWIW, his threads do not simply disappear below the horizon; he continually resurrects them or starts new ones, and fills them with the same poisonous dogma.

While those who have posted here need to be conscious of their motives, WAV is as responsible as anyone for keeping these arguments alive.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: TheSnail
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 08:51 AM

Not getting at you in particular, Ruth. Your link did make more or less the same point. Curiously, a GUEST with a silly name had their post quoting the relevant lines deleted.

From experience, and FWIW, his threads do not simply disappear below the horizon; he continually resurrects them or starts new ones, and fills them with the same poisonous dogma.

WAV generally starts his threads with something fairly uncontroversial and people rub their hands with glee - "Another WAV bashing opportunity" - giving him a platform to spout his views on. Does anyone believe that he has converted anybody to his point of view?

Ignore him. He probably won't go away but nobody will take any notice. There are more important fights to fight.

Oh dear, here's me helping to keep this thread alive.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Working Radish
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 08:55 AM

Thanks, I guess, for that.

this is not a bit rich but very rich from the one who, I'm almost certain, earlier told me not to answer off-thread questions

Don't be silly. Yes, I think this thread should come with a BS tag, as it's mostly political rather than musical. Yes, I think that if you want to talk about music you should take the political discussion somewhere else. But no, that doesn't mean ignoring questions - it means responding somewhere else (you could start a new BS thread - it's not hard). But I've given up that particular battle for now.

Do you therefore believe that England should not be a multi-cultural country? ECONOMIC/CAPITALIST (NOT ALL) IMMIGRATION SHOULD STOP, AND THERE SHOULD BE ASSIMILATION INTO ENGLISH CULTURE AND VALUES - WHY COME TO ENGLAND IF AGAINST SUCH WAYS?

That's a 'Yes', then. England should be mono-cultural, nobody should come here except asylum seekers from a nearby country, and those who do come here should assimilate to 'English culture'.

Do you also believe that it would have been preferable if people who don't have an English culture had not come to England in the past? I BELIEVE IT WOULD BE BETTER IF THE ABOVE HAD COME INTO PRACTISE EARLIER.

In other words, you believe it would have been preferable if far fewer people who don't have an English culture had come to England in the past, and those who had done had assimilated to 'English culture'. No Indian takeaways in this green and pleasant land, then. No pizza, come to think of it. I suppose we could still have burgers, but we'd have to call them rissoles. (Sorry, lunch break.)

Do you specifically believe that England would have been a better place if there had not been large-scale immigration of non-Europeans over the last 50 years? LARGE-SCALE IMMMIGRATION PER SE.

Since all the large-scale immigration which has actually happened has been of non-Europeans - at least, up until the recent Polish influx - this is a distinction that makes no difference. I appreciate you're trying to clear yourself of the imputation of hating brown-skinned people personally - as you say in response to Ruth,

I'VE ONLY QUESTIONED THE ACT OF IMMIGRATION ITSELF - NOT WHERE IMMIGRANTS COME FROM/NOT ANY PARTICULAR CULTURE OR RACE!

But really, that's not what racism means. You want to preserve English culture by excluding foreign influences. In other words, you want to exclude foreign people from England, because you see them as a threat to the purity of English culture. That is racism.

One final question, about assimilation. You've said earlier that it's a bad thing when people lose their culture; in many ways I tend to agree. But doesn't that mean that it's a good thing when immigrants keep their culture alive?

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 09:22 AM

Working radish: no ice cream either. I'd hate that.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Stu
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 09:56 AM

"WHY COME TO ENGLAND IF AGAINST SUCH WAYS"

Because of this, or this, or perhaps this.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 10:13 AM

Spot on, Stigweard. Your examples throw up another question: do you really believe, WAV, that being born in a particular country gives you more entitlement - some sort of god-given right - to comfort, wealth and privilege? Why do you deserve the benefits and opportunities of living in a wealthy western country more than someone from Africa, or the Caribbean, or Southeast Asia? Just because of an accident of birth?

I can't imagine the courage it must take to come from nothing, and to work very hard in order to be able to leave everything you know, all of your friends, family, culture - your home - purely because you have the guts and the drive to make a better life for yourself and your kids. It's what my great-grandparents on both sides did when they emigrated to America. Perhaps it's not a million miles from what your parents did when they emigrated to Australia.

People like this enrich ANY culture. They deserve respect, not intolerance.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 10:31 AM

doesn't that mean that it's a good thing when immigrants keep their culture alive?

I live in a small town (approx 3,600 people) in the middle of the USA in a culturally rather homogenous state. My town however is about 50% Hispanic. There being such a concentration of Hispanics has made it possible for them to maintain many traditional ways. There are four Mexican restaurants, three grocery stores (small ones) and a bakery. There is a traditional dance troupe that marches in the annual fair parade. There are, of course, many smaller more personal ways in which their culture is kept alive. Our school district has a bilingual program (optional, not required) so both of my sons are taught the normal curriculum in Spanish for part of the day. I think my town is much the richer for all this.

In Cedar Rapids, a city about 45 minutes from where I live, there are a large number of people of Czech descent (the National Czech and Slovak Museum is located there). Years ago they were ridiculed and discriminated against. They were not allowed to speak their native tongue in public. Many living traditions were lost. There has lately been a move to revive many of these traditions. There is no intention to remove themselves from mainstream American culture (such as it is) but rather to reclaim something of their heritage. The Hispanics in my town won't have to reclaim anything because they will not have given it up in the first place. I say again that my town is much the richer for this.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 10:39 AM

The way he keeps bringing it up, I think Wavy believes he has some special entitlement because he was born on the day Alf Ramsey played a sillyass game. I wonder how he'd feel if he was born on the day Christine Keeler posed for the Morley photo................

Spaw

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 11:07 AM

AND THERE SHOULD BE ASSIMILATION INTO ENGLISH CULTURE AND VALUES - WHY COME TO ENGLAND IF AGAINST SUCH WAYS?

WAV - I was born in England and I'm against the ways you speak of. Most of us are, which is why we welcomed the immigration which swamped the reactionary mono-cultural shit-hole of pre-1960s England with something meaningful. Immigration gave doddering grey depressed old post-war England hope in the form of diversity, life, music, flavour, colour, pattern, dance, humanity, richness, and all level of joyous wonder. Without immigration, England had no culture worth a shit. In the 1950s English Traditional Music was a seriously endangered species; no one wanted to know. Now, it's doing rather better - never better in fact, never better in the whole of English history - not that I give a flying fuck about English history because my life is right here, right now, in October 2008. I personally thank immigration for this; I thank the influx of pure colour in every sense of the word that illuminated this grey monochrome flavourless bland as boiled fucking cabbage country and let people see that they too had something worth singing and playing, something to be proud of, something truly amazing in terms of Their Own Good Culture which is what we've got now. No going back. Not now. Not ever. We're long past that - and getting further away from it with each death and each new birth, with each new bright-eyed arrival that looks only to the future, not the past.

To pinch a phrase from the Native Americans. We have not inherited this England of ours from our mono-cultural monochrome forebears; we have borrowed it from our multi-cultural rainbow children. And whilst my children may hate folk music (and I hate it too as much as I love it) they love life, and they love hip-hop, and The Mighty Boosh and all the other stuff I'll never understand, but I'll accept and love it with an open heart because it's theirs - OURS - and there's nothing you can do about it for all your drab and dreary mealy-mouthed euphemistic propagandising other than mire yourself ever deeper in the personal misery which is, after all, your choice.

So, in the light of the above, let's look that that above quote again, shall we?

AND THERE SHOULD BE ASSIMILATION INTO ENGLISH CULTURE AND VALUES - WHY COME TO ENGLAND IF AGAINST SUCH WAYS?

Because this is precisely what you've done, WAV. You've come to Our Good England, and you're totally against the ways of OUR own good multi-cultural society into which you've so steadfastly refused to assimilate, actively promoting your specious lies and discord, filled as you are with the bitter and determined hatred that underwrites your every word. But as you promote such vile reactionary anachronistic bullshit, then so people will oppose it, and they will do so with increasing and entirely justified vehemence until either you fuck off back to Australia, or else learn the error of your ways. Maybe then you might find your efforts at repatriation will, at last, yield some fruits.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 11:19 AM

Our New National Athem? Certainly one of mine!

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 12:14 PM

Hey Mr Beard
Great clip!!!
Ralphie
Oh, and great points as well. He won't read them though. (sigh)

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 01:16 PM

Why not just disable all his links?
That's not a euphemism, by the way..

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 01:25 PM

Spaw, did you catch this?

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: WalkaboutsVerse - PM
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 06:11 AM

...at that above site, you may see ... my ... "little organ"

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Woody
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 01:58 PM

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Woody
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 02:02 PM

Amen to all that IB.

And the Notting Hill Carnival! I used to live in NH - late August was always the best time as the whole place started buzzing in anticipation. Truly wonderful.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: peregrina
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 02:18 PM

Perhaps the national instrument is the sound of those who love to bang their heads against the wall...

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 02:18 PM

KB - that reminds me of a scene in the film Dim Sum. An old man, a Chinese immigrant to the US, is lamenting the loss of Chinese culture as the younger generations become Westernised. He finishes by listing a whole series of obscure or elaborate dishes that, he fears, aren't being handed down any more -
"[Chinese name] - all gone! [Chinese name] - all gone!"
Except that his English isn't very good, so it sounds like "aw goh!" There's a silly comic quality to that "aw goh!", coupled with a terrible pathos at watching this old man seeing his world slip away. (The lead character is his niece, and at the very end of the film she helps him make the most beautiful, elaborate and time-consuming dim sum you have ever seen. Happy ending.)

I cried when I saw that scene, although my background's quite different; I think the most exotic thing my Mum used to make was the Kartoffelpüffer she picked up when they lived in Germany after the war. (She's gone now, mind you, and most of her recipes are aw goh too.) Traditions, customs, inheritances are valuable things - culturally valuable, that is - and the more this country can accommodate, the merrier.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: peregrina
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 02:19 PM

hark, I hear it now, emanating from this very thread...

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 02:21 PM

Wavey the racist dragon...?"...false and defamatory language from Ruth Archer/Joan Crumb who works for the National Council - who, in my opinion, should have words with her.

Shouldn't the UN get involved?

Volgadon (who somehow reposted what has been deleted?!): I'm no expert on Israeli music (although Inbal Dor has been on my myspace Top Friends for ages)...but am surprised that you seem to be suggesting there is no such thing?...

Deleted? Not that I'm aware of.
I couldn't care less about Inbal Dor, have no idea who she is and don't see what a myspace friend has to do with anything. I could be top friends with Charles Dickens on that thing!
You missed the point. Israeli music IS multicultural, it has a bit of everything.

Granma of the "saggy old tits" - "Not sure what you Australians call it" (Granma)...so I have to repeat repeat that I'm an English repat - actually born in Manchester the day Alf Ramsey's English team won the world cup of football.

So, should being born on that day give you special priviledges, or ensure your Englishness? I'm sure plenty of Pakistans and West Indians were born on that day, in England.

Catspaw - more false and defamatory language from one who has both whinged about being deleted and almost pleaded for Mudcat to host my website.

-Baldrick, do you know what irony is?
-Yes, it's like bronzy and goldy.

Diane - more false and defamatory language: I'VE ONLY QUESTIONED THE ACT OF IMMIGRATION ITSELF - NOT WHERE IMMIGRANTS COME FROM/NOT ANY PARTICULAR CULTURE OR RACE!

Nobody accused you of being a racist according to your own narrow, shallow and inaccurate definition, although you do seem to hammer on AMERICAN culture, which puts a lie to your statement.

Now, back on thread: at that above site, you may see and hear my beloved tenor recorder/English flute/"little organ" (William Shakespeare, Hamlet), which, to drop a clanger, is, in my opinion, a definite rival to the bell as Englands national musical instrument...

You mean a continental instrument used in a continental court setting? Hamlet Prince of...?
Were Shakespeare to write a play about the Grand Mogul and include a line about the sitar, calling it that wondrous instrument of joy, could we consider it an English instrument?

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 02:41 PM

Here's one of Our Own Good English musicians interpreting one of our Own good English songs...with a little help.

I hope it gets nominated for Traditional Track of the Year at the folk awards, because it's stonking.


Lucy Wan - Jim Moray

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Woody
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 02:42 PM

-Baldrick, do you know what irony is?
-Yes, it's like bronzy and goldy.

It's only recently that I realized how good a joke this was - i.e. "irony" used as an adjective means "like Iron"

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 02:56 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_PoPY-mDpA&feature=relateand here is another one,Dick Miles with the melody being played on the English Concertina

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 06:03 AM

Sorry for dredging this up again...

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 06:04 AM

...but I just wanted to give someone the chance to say...

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 06:05 AM

...900!

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Will Fly
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 06:07 AM

to say...Good Morning, Sean! It's a beautiful day down here in Sussex. I can see the sea shining blue in the sunlight, and the downs rising up to the west. The autumn colours are at their best. Aah - but would it all have been better 50 years ago? That's the question...

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Darowyn
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 06:23 AM

Oh it was, we had proper English sun in those days. We all doffed our caps to the village squire as we sat outside the pub with our pints of mead, singing the old folk songs of the day, all without harmonies of course, just like these ones here:-
All UK number ones from 1958!

Jerry Lee Lewis               Great Balls Of Fire        07/01/1958
Elvis Presley               Jailhouse Rock               21/01/1958
Michael Holliday       The Story Of My Life        11/02/1958
Perry Como               Magic Moments               25/02/1958
Marvin Rainwater       Whole Lotta Woman        22/04/1958
Connie Francis               Who's Sorry Now               13/05/1958
Vic Damone               On The Street Where You Live        24/06/1958
The Everly Brothers    All I Have To Do Is Dream        01/07/1958
The Kalin Twins               When                     19/08/1958
Connie Francis               Carolina Moon               23/09/1958
Tommy Edwards               It's All In The Game        04/11/1958
Lord Rockingham's XI   Hoots Mon               25/11/1958
Conway Twitty               It's Only Make Believe        16/12/1958

Cheers
Dave

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Will Fly
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 06:28 AM

Oh Dave, Dave - how you brought it all back for me! I was tainted at the age of 12, of course, by raving over "Heartbreak Hotel" and "Bye Bye Love". And now I'm too late for saving. The ice cream man, by the way, used to come around with van and horse - and rang a handbell to advertise his presence (I kid you not). Those WERE the days!

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 07:01 AM

Hey, I wasn't even born 50 years ago... And how good it feels to still be able to say that, which I will do, at every availably opportunity, for the next three years. Even so, I still remember the stench of those malodorous monochrome years - the coal smoke, the dank body odours, the smog, the leaded petrol & diesel fumes, and the cigarettes! Everyone, it seemed, smoked everywhere, all the time, casting all to the dirty smelly stain that was suddenly brightened up by the first Pakistani owned corner shop opening in our village when suddenly the sun seemed to come out and my infant nostrils sang to other more exotic fragrances. And as for Folk Music, we had to make do with This, which I still love by the way... just watching it now I am washed over by waves of comforting nostalgia. Seminal stuff!

Thanks for the land & seascape, Will - more English nostalgia anyone? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=re0ASyzKnIM

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 07:06 AM

WAV wasnt born then,however I remember the fifties ,how exotic it was to have bananas after the war,the only kind of spaghetti was in tins,now look at the influence of mediterranean/european/indian cuisine on our culture,a definite improvement.