England's National Musical-Instrument?

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 07:53 PM

Jaysus.....I got to get 1400!!!
Do I get an award?

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 07:57 PM

Condolences, I think, Ralphie. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 09:35 PM

Congratulations Ralphie, you've won 12 hours stuck in a lift with WaV and his English Nationalist Flute.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 10:22 PM

Wavyracist Dude!!! You need to read all the posts and read for comprehension. Note this post following my previous one.....Go back and look Jerkwad.....its there:
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: catspaw49 - PM
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 09:15 AM

And Wavyracist......Just for your enlightenment since you obviously know fuck all about modern English OR world culture.........

H3>"Play That Funky Music" (also known as "Play That Funky Music, White Boy") is a funk rock song written by Robert Parissi and recorded by the rock band Wild Cherry. The song hit number one on the Billboard Hot 100 on September 18, 1976. It was also the basis of a top five U.S.A. hit for Vanilla Ice in 1990. The song also was #10 in the UK and is now listed at #73 on Billboard's Greatest Songs of all time."
The song was inspired by a black audience member who shouted, "Play some funky music, white boy" while they were playing at the 2001 Club. Lead singer Robert Parissi decided they should, and wrote down the phrase on a bar order pad. They later recorded it in Cleveland with a Disco sound. Although the band was concerned about the lyrics, Parissi insisted on keeping them.

Now I dunno' about # 73 all time but the phrase has certainly become part of our almost shared language. Here's another phrase brought about by an overwhelming majority opinion of folks on this thread and your other crapass threads as well...........

David Franks is a racist and a bigot.

Spaw
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Understand? Probably not, but who cares? Thanks Don.....I am a lot of often disreputable things but racist and bigot have never been mentioned in that regard.

Spaw

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 12:55 AM

Normally I couldn't give a toss what colour anybody is, but I'm assuming Spaw is white. If that's the case, how the heck can it be racist for a white person to call another white person white? I think WaV, what Spaw is trying to tell you is that you're a bigot and a racist. How about showing us some real evidence to the contrary?

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 01:27 AM

Hey Smokey. Thats not nice.
Nobody should suffer that.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 03:17 AM

Ralphie -

I've played with all three (possibly 4 or 5) systems at once

a) What are systems 4 and 5? I'm intrigued.
b) How many hands have you got?

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 03:29 AM

Hi Pip...
The English
The Anglo
Duets...
MaCann, Crane (Triumph), Jeffries, and latterly Hayden.

I play Macann meself, but can get some sort of tune out of the others on a good day, though the Jeffries Duet does my head in!!
Number of hands.....Two, surprisingly!
Didn't mean to put "At Once" That would be silly, obviously!!
But, lets not tell Wav. He might be tempted to take it up.
Mind you, at current prices he probably couldn't afford one anyway!
Cheers Ralphie

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Howard Jones
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 04:08 AM

WAV, I have friends who were born and brought up in England, and who went to work abroad (some in Australia) for a couple of years before returning home. I wouldn't call them "immigrants", but nor would I call them "repatriates", as they were not repatriated but made their own choices about where to live.

You moved to Australia in infancy (which your parents presumably intended would be permanent), grew up there and lived there for 30-odd years. You then moved to the UK. How is that not immigration?

You are welcome here, and we welcome that you wish to assimilate and become properly English. What is not welcome is that you try to spread your discredited political ideas and barmy notions of what English music should be. We are trying to help you, because you keep getting your attempts at Englishness utterly, spectacularly wrong.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 05:16 AM

To be Sung to a Traditional Tyneside Melody (Here)

Wavy's got an English Flute
Doley! Doley!
No matter what, it will not toot
Doley-a!
For sucking is all he really knows
Doley! Doley!
One day he'll have to learn to blow!
Doley-a!

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 05:28 AM

"Mind you, at current prices he probably couldn't afford one anyway!" (Ralphie)...that's about the only accurate thing posted since my last one.

And the only one who bothered with Catspaw's use of the term "whiteboy" (above) was Smokey with...
"Normally I couldn't give a toss what colour anybody is, but I'm assuming Spaw is white. If that's the case, how the heck can it be racist for a white person to call another white person white? I think WaV, what Spaw is trying to tell you is that you're a bigot and a racist. How about showing us some real evidence to the contrary?"
In my poetry and on forums, I've never said immigrants from this or that part of the world are better or worse - I've only questioned the act of immigration/emigration itself; and I've suggested that regualtions should be stronger than the status quo.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 06:50 AM

I tell you what WAV, you've received a right kicking here but you're still going.

I think your politics stink, but at least you're sticking to your guns and giving a bit back.*








*However, please take the musical advice offered - it really is fundamental to being a traditional player.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,stigweard sans cookie
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 07:33 AM

That was me above - more bleedin' computer problems . . .

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 07:53 AM

To use cricketing terms,wav has had his middle stump,off stump leg stump,systematically hit,he has been bowled over,by a googly a full toss,a leg cutter and a chinaman,and like W G GRACE Refuses to exit to the pavilion,he believes like Grace,that the audience have come to see him perform.
WAV let me give you some tips,this is constructive musical criticism,get some voice lessons so that you can hold a note for a length of time without going flat,I would also advise an instrument other than the recorder,that can accompany your singing and help you to make a more varied sound,banjo, guitar etc.,,the didgeridoo would also help you with your breathing[no offence intended].

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 07:59 AM

All of that sounds like very sage and wise advice, Dick!! Without going through all the 1400 postings on this thread yet again, I'm pretty sure that David has been offered all of those pointers, individually, conjointly etc more than once ... but of course they were well worth saying again.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 08:33 AM

Cheers, Ralphie. Any thoughts on which 'tina would be easiest to pick up for a complete beginner? I've been daydreaming about getting an English, partly because I like the look of the system and partly because I've heard good things about the Jackie (which was available ridiculously cheap from the States in the summer, & is still pretty affordable).

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 12:10 PM

For the attention of Catspaw.

Dear Mr Spaw,

I refer to your posts to this thread of various insts, ultimos and penultimos. Whilst I can find no fault with your general sentiment and am of the humble opinion that it is a fine and beautiful name with which god-fearing parents might christen their little boy, I remain unconvinced how far you believe you will be successful in winning over the heart and mind of Brother Franks by continually referring to him as Wavylimpdick.

I shall not, however,ask you to desist.

I remain, yours faithfully,

Reverend Spleen Cringe

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Woody
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 01:40 PM

Any thoughts on which 'tina would be easiest to pick up for a complete beginner? I've been daydreaming about getting an English, partly because I like the look of the system and partly because I've heard good things about the Jackie

Pardon me if I give my ten penn'uth woth here...

As far as I know there aren't any beginner Duets at a similar price to the Jackie. Concertina Connection who make the Jackie also make the Rochelle Anglo which sells for the same price.

As far as which system to choose, if you have a particular type of music in mind that may tend to lead you towards either the Anglo or the English but generally it's worth trying both and seeing which system makes the most sense to you.

For me the Anglo is obvious and the EC is a mystery wrapped in an enigma - for others it's the other way round.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: catspaw49
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 05:12 PM

Dearest Spleen,

I have taken your post under advisement and have given it due consideration. I have determined that your point is well taken. Although young Mr. Franks is indeed a "Limpdick" or possibly a "Broke-Dick" it is sincerely not the best way I might refer to him as I have no certain knowledge of either situation. You have given me "paws" for thought and I have determined you are right and I must change.

It is on that basis that I now will refer to him as WavyFunkyWhiteBoyRacist. This is a bit long, but it works for me and I hope it works for you as well.


Best Regards,

Spaw

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 05:23 PM

"And the only one who bothered with Catspaw's use of the term 'whiteboy' (above) was Smokey with..."
[blather]
"In my poetry and on forums, I've never said immigrants from this or that part of the world are better or worse - I've only questioned the act of immigration/emigration itself; and I've suggested that regualtions should be stronger than the status quo."

What the devil does that have to do with anything I said?? Whatever - Catspaw wasn't being racist, even if he's a green three headed tripedal (I made that up) fish-man fron Alpha Centauri. You, on the other hand, given the overwhelming evidence, are. The problem being the grounds on which you base your suggestion - they are racist. I find it very hard to believe that you cannot see that. There will always be, and always has been change, WaV; it is the one constant thing we can all rely on. Take some advice from King Canut.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,eliza c
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 06:52 PM

Stigweard, thanks for asking, it's absolutely fine.

David-"it's a traditional song that shall remain in my repertoire"-

   I don't believe I've ever been dismissed so by someone while they were in the process of using the fruits of the labours of me and mine to their own ends before. Part of me wants to tell you "you're welcome", part of me despairs and wishes my gypsy grandmothers had left me some curse or other I could put on you every time that song comes out of your mouth! Hot tea burns, anvils, pianos dangling overhead, that sort of thing. That is incredibly rude. Incredibly rude. You obviously have no idea how rude that is, how much you deserve to be dismissed for that alone if not for other things that you say.
I am not here to insult you. Let's not forget that you initially got in touch with me to tell me how you disapproved of my collaboration with Anglo-Asian musicians. I have been trying to help you broaden your knowledge of England's real traditions rather than just slagging you off which some are more than happy to do, and good luck to them in their righteous but pointless anger. It's bloody good car-crash viewing, but it doesn't half make you tired. Aren't you tired?
It is clear to me that you either have some condition that stops you from taking advice, even good advice, or you are dreamed up by someone in order to piss us all off and poison this board, which can be fairly poisonous all by itself sometimes, but is genuinely a good source of information and mischief. Whatever, you are a liability to yourself and the tradition and this place. I am happy to say you are a liability also to your own cause, although I also wish it wasn't so. I wish you were a genuine, openhearted advocate, and we were able to discourse intelligently and excite eachother about this thing we love. I really, really do. But that's what makes me a fucking idiot, and a PC one at that, along with everyone else here. Well done you for bringing that to our attention. I hope it gives you a real sense of achievement. I'm going to bed.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 03:44 AM

Hi Eliza.
Nice comment. But, will he listen? Doubt it!!
As for the Concertina question (After all this thread started about instruments. 100 years ago!)
I took up the Duet by mistake in 1973, not knowing anything about tinas, sytems, or anything much.
So I suppose the choice of system is a trial and error sort of thing.
If you want to play Wav's idea of one line playing, then the English would suit best. If your into polyphony, then the Duet wins hands down. (Wav would object, but so what?)
The Anglo is really good for bouncy dance music, and the Irish amongst us have turned it into a wonderful vehicle for their "Good" music.
My advice, Try them all! depends what you want to achieve.
You could do worse than getting hold of the 2 CD sets Anglo International, and English International. (The Duet one is still under construction!)
Regards to all.
Ralphie. (Phew, maybe this can become a thread about music again!)

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 04:21 AM

Someone once questioned Eliza Carthy's collaboration with Argentinian accordionist Chango Spasiuk with the really silly: "But is it folk?"
This was quite funny in a sad sort of way, to which the only possible reply was "don't know, don't care but it's bloody good music".
I cannot fathom how stupid and insulting it must be to her to have some ignorant Australian taking her to task for playing with fellow citizens of a slightly different ethnic origin, or more importantly (to this whiter than white immigrant), slightly darker skin colour.

I see we're moving on to telling the Irish what they can and cannot play. Good luck.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Stu
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 06:12 AM

"But that's what makes me a fucking idiot, and a PC one at that, along with everyone else here."

No it isn't. It's what makes us people who are happy to freely impart the wisdom they've learnt, encourage and cajole newcomers to the music and to care enough to get worked up about it.

WAV has wound me up royally on a couple of occasions, and I can't decide if he's a wind-up merchant, enthusiastic but deluded or even not very well. Some of the responses on his threads have been quite ugly and while this is partly due to the frustration of posters in getting their messages through it's also because WAV has been so utterly intransigent all some folk can do is scream at him. His political opinions may be odious, he may not be articulate in expressing what he really means and we're getting the wrong end of the stick, we may not be intelligent enough to comprehend what he is saying, or he may simply be playing us all like fiddles for his own amusement.

A Tibetan Buddhist nun once told me Buddha teaches us all people are teachers, even those with whom it can seem we have no common ground. If this the case then WAV is a teacher to be cherished. The threads he started contain some of the best advice ever seen on this website for a newcomer to any of the traditions of our Islands. To be given access to some of the people who have posted here and expressed their opinions and thoughts is a great opportunity - one that I certainly have taken something away from. have a look through the tirades, rants and bullshit and there are gleaming nuggets of wisdom to be found.

One more thing. WAV's opinions may strike many of us here as contemptible and backward but they are shared by many more people in his beloved England that many of us might care to admit. It may be naive of me, but I always think folkies have a broader outlook on life than many people, and tend to embrace multiculturalism and enjoy the benefits of living in a rich and diverse society. We understand that even the divisions within to our own peoples here on these Islands are the result of ignorance, laziness and intolerance. However tens of thousands, possibly millions of people in this country don't see it that way and maintain the sort of opinions that perpetuate old animosities and misunderstandings that should have been put to bed a long time ago. If, as many think, WAV's opinions are of this ilk then perhaps he truly is home in England and in tune with so many of his fellow countrymen, where ignorance of their own traditions and the lack of tolerance to people who come to live here for whatever reason is the norm, not the exception.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 06:28 AM

The Anglo is really good for bouncy dance music

So's the duet Ralphie!

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 06:40 AM

And so we trundle on ... Stig - good comments, and very charitable and tolerant. You (and Ralphie earlier) are quite right to say that there have been nuggets of information and wisdom contained within this thread... shame about having to dig and wade through the rest of it. I swore I was going to give up reading it, but I'm ashamed to say it really is car crash material, and spectating is exceedingly tempting. Moreover, it's like that sore itch that you can't ignore - you have to keep scratching it... and voila, when the enormity of yet another of WAV's postings causes the boiling over point to be met, the need and urge to make another post is felt!

It's quite obvious, and such a shame, that WAV is never going to accept that there may be some point in the musical advice he has frequently and normally very charitably and thoughtfully been given. Sadly I think Ralphie is mistaken in hoping that the thread will revert to a discussion of music. (And by the way, Ralphie, I love the idea of taking an instrument by mistake - makes it sound as though the tina fell into your hands and forced you to start playing it! A magnetic compulsion, or some such?)

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 06:59 AM

I'd like to clarify that my remark about moving on to telling the Irish what they can and cannot play was addressed to an anonymous guest's now disappeared assertion that the Irish should stick to uilleann pipes, and not to the post now above mine on how well the Irish have embraced the anglo. Which, of course, they have.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 07:01 AM

I always think folkies have a broader outlook on life than many people, and tend to embrace multiculturalism and enjoy the benefits of living in a rich and diverse society. We understand that even the divisions within to our own peoples here on these Islands are the result of ignorance, laziness and intolerance. However tens of thousands, possibly millions of people in this country don't see it that way and maintain the sort of opinions that perpetuate old animosities and misunderstandings that should have been put to bed a long time ago

To paraphrase a certain Captain Willard: Oh man, the shit piled up so fast on Mudcat you needed wings to stay above it.

Subject: RE: Musical Instruments Played In England
From: GUEST,Working Radish
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 07:44 AM

If you want to play Wav's idea of one line playing, then the English would suit best. If your into polyphony, then the Duet wins hands down.

Well, I'm thinking in terms of fairly unobtrusive accompaniment to singing, playing some melody as well as some chords - John Kelly's Polly Vaughan is pretty much the sound I'm after (although obviously he's playing harmonium). Definitely not bouncy dance music.

Re WAV, shall we just ignore him and talk about musical instruments?

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 07:49 AM

the english concertina is great too,as are all the concertinas.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Will Fly
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 07:58 AM

I bought myself a fairly cheap 20 key (C/G) Anglo some months ago and am getting to grips with it in my not so copious free time. I've played harmonica for many years so the push/pull note pattern's not totally unfamiliar. However, I could so with a little advice as to whether there are any decent tutorials (books) that experts could recommend. I'm pretty good at playing tunes on most instruments by ear, but some good advice on the use of the bellows and the air valve would be appreciated.

Like many beginner instruments of this type, the buttons are also rather large. Once I think I've become a little more proficient, what middle-price models would you recommend? (If there are any, that is).

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Howard Jones
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 08:31 AM

Will, I suggest you visit concertina.net where you will get more advice and information than you thought possible on all aspects of the concertina. Alan Day (who also posts on here) has produced a tutor for anglo.

I sympathise with Ralph's "took it up by mistake". Good mistake, Ralph! I too liked the sound of the concertina (which I heard on an album, it happened to be Tony Rose playing an English) so I bought one. Like Ralphie, I was totally ignorant of the different types, or even that there were different types. The one I got turned out to be an anglo, so that's what I play.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 09:02 AM

Will.
Agree with Howards good advice. concertina.net is a well useful place to vist.
Not much good on the Anglo myself, but you'll find shedloads of advice there.
And Howard....To have been inspired by the late Mr Rose is something to be proud of. Bless him

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: trevek
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 10:07 AM

The Scottish bagpipes, of course. Because anything Scottish belongs to England!

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 11:06 AM

I'll second the advice above about concertina.net given by much wiser and older (in terms of playing years, she says hastily) concertina hands than myself ( a newbie of 10 months' standing) ... there's more information on there than you could shake a stick at (whatever that may mean)... comparisons of systems, instruction manuals etc etc etc. I'd hankered after playing a concertina for years, but had thought on the advice I was given around 1990 that it might be an English.

However, after being unduly swayed by explanations of what a duet was by a certain duet player of long standing (I'd never heard of it as an option before then), and being allowed the chance to try one out ... that's what I now find myself learning to play.... and making up for years of lost time. It's swiftly become an addiction, and I, who always considered myself a singer and "not interested in tunes" am obviously suffering a sea change ... worrying?? Practice here we come again .... I need my fix...

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 12:52 PM

Blimey....Have we managed to end Wavs utterings, and got back to music????
Maybe but I doubt it!
Irene. You're doing brilliant on the Duet....Another 30 Years should do!

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: trevek
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 01:22 PM

On a more serious note I would echo an earlier post about Brass. It's more widely played and recognised than any other instrument, such as pipes or concertinas and is part of a solid working class tradition (if that's actually important). Think of brass bands in collieries, military bands etc.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 02:27 PM

> Blimey....Have we managed to end Wavs utterings, and got back to music???? Maybe but I doubt it!

Who knows, but make the most of it and live for the moment!!!

> Irene. You're doing brilliant on the Duet....Another 30 Years should do!

Well, that should be about the amount of time you've been playing it, shouldn't it... if I can get to your standard I shall be a very very happy bunny.... let's see if the arthritis gets me first, eh?? But thankee sir ... curtseys, blushes,and simpers winsomely.... and promptly falls flat on her face!!

Trevek ... not quite sure why you're mentioning brass (I can't face the thought of going backwards in this thread .. there are some things you shouldn't ask a person to do). Coming from a Salvation Army background, I do find I have an affinity for brass band music, and the sound of a really good band in full flight is incredibly stirring. For some years I attended the Music Summer School at Canford Summer School of Music in Dorset, and while I was working my way through the week singing close harmony works (jazz, songs from the shows, spirituals etc) there was another course on campus being run by principals from Black Dyke for the first few years. When it came to the students' concert at the end of the week, the experience of sitting four feet away from a 60 strong brass band playing the theme from Star Wars was, to put it mildly, visceral ... great stuff!!

And on a final (mildly) unrelated note - many congrats, Eliza on being confirmed as Vice President of the EFDSS at the AGM on Saturday. There was a very strong round of applause from those of us present - both for you and for our new President !

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 02:33 PM

Quite right Trevek, and that's a tradition which is far more likely to die out than 'English folk music' - whatever that is.. Not a lot to do with immigration either. Whilst I see no decline whatsoever in 'folk music' in the last fifty years, (quite the opposite in fact), I'm deeply saddened at what has happened to the brass band world. I grew up with them; virtually every pit and factory seemed to have one. Bloody good musicians too - essential to the job. Nearly all gone.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: catspaw49
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 02:51 PM

Just from this one Yank's point of view........Although there are many worthy instruments virtually all come from elsewhere. That's no big deal. I think for me this thread asks, "What instrument most suggests "England" to some dumbass guy like myself?"

Sam Pirt, Ian, and Bill Sables, sat in our living room playing accordion, guitar, banjo, melodeon, and I think someone even whipped up a whistle or two. In the style they played it would be easy to make a case for most of those things as an integral part of the English tradition. Many other instruments would qualify as well in that manner. But the one thing after all these years and friendships that still makes me think of England first are bells.......and specifically change ringing. It was first done and developed there and no matter where it has gone since, ringing changes is still an English endeavor.

Believe me, that's no insult. There are very few things like it anywhere. Just a dumbass opinion from the Ohio Country Ohio here in the Colonies.


Spaw

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 02:56 PM

From the evidence I've seen at the Durham Miners' Gala over the last few years I'd say the brass band tradition is alive and well, with some impressive young players coming through to keep the numbers and standards up. The pits may have gone, but the villages, the communities, and the pride, are still there.

Lots of it on You Tube - look for Big Meeting or Durham Miner's Gala 2008.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 03:01 PM

Blimey - I never knew change ringing was first developed here. - Thanks Spaw, from a slightly less iggorant Engrishman.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 03:03 PM

And thanks IB - I'll have a look. My observation was local rather than national, I hope you're right.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 03:07 PM

Change ringing is alive and well too, of course - and there's any amount of it on You Tube. Here's a wee clip from Durham - our old home town; we used to to park right here on Thursday nights for the Durham City Folk Cub just as the bell ringers were getting down to business. Set us up just right for a night of hearty chorus singing...

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Gervase
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 03:08 PM

Pure brass does seem very much an English thing. Other countries often have percussion; drums, xylophones, jingling-johnnies and the like - but the English pure brass sound is, er, quintessentially English.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 03:19 PM

Lots of drums in the Colliery bands; bass, tenor, snare - excellent drummers too!

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 03:20 PM

Elgar's 'Nimrod' (from Enigma vars.) played by a brass or silver band is about the most 'English' thing I've ever heard.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 03:49 PM

The most English thing I've ever heard...

That could be a very significant thread drift. This is the most English thing I've ever heard:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZYY5m9MZLI

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 04:10 PM

The most English thing there is:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=uWg048H_ssU&feature=related

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 04:29 PM

Bugger.

One more time . . .

Jim Eldon