Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafemuddy

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


Draft Dodger Rag: ragtime or not?

DigiTrad:
AUTOMATION SONG
BOUND FOR GLORY
CHANGES
CHORDS OF FAME
DRAFT DODGER RAG
FLOWER LADY
HILLS OF WEST VIRGINIA
I AIN'T MARCHIN' ANYMORE
I'M GOING TO SAY IT NOW
IN THE HEAT OF THE SUMMER
IS THERE ANYBODY HERE?
JIM DEAN OF INDIANA
LINKS ON THE CHAIN
LOVE ME, I'M A LIBERAL
LOVE ME, I'M A LIBERAL
NO MORE SONGS
ONE MORE PARADE
OUTSIDE OF A SMALL CIRCLE OF FRIENDS
PHIL
PLEASURES OF THE HARBOR
SMALL CIRCLE OF FRIENDS
TALKING BIRMINGHAM JAM
THAT WAS THE PRESIDENT AND THAT WAS THE MAN
THAT WAS THE PRESIDENT, THAT WAS THE MAN 2
THAT'S THE WAY IT'S GONNA BE
THE POWER AND THE GLORY
THE WAR IS OVER
THERE BUT FOR FORTUNE
TOO MANY MARTYRS
WHAT'S THAT I HEAR? (FREEDOM CALLING)
WHEN I'M GONE


Related threads:
Folklore: Meaning of Flower Lady (Phil Ochs) (11)
Lyr Req: Songs by Phil Ochs (8)
(origins) Origins: No More Songs (Phil Ochs) - Meaning (5)
Songs for/about Phil Ochs (133)
Phil Ochs Intro to I ain't marching anymore (10)
Chord Req: All Quiet on the Western Front (P Ochs) (5)
Lyr Req: You Can't Get Stoned Enough (Phil Ochs) (13)
Lyr/Chords Req: Songs by Phil Ochs (6)
Lyr Add: Hands (Phil Ochs) (6)
(origins) Origins: While I'm Here?/When I'm Gone (Phil Ochs) (13)
Lyr Req: When I'm Gone (Phil Ochs) (12)
Lyr Req: That's the Way It's Gonna Be (Phil Ochs) (9)
Medgar Evers' Murder: 50 Years Later - Phil Ochs (7)
Phil Ochs - The Party (4)
Lyr Add: Here's to the State of Mississippi (Ochs) (8)
Need Sheet Music for The Bells (Ochs/Poe) (9)
ADD: A Toast To Those Who Are Gone (Phil Ochs) (4)
Lyr Req: Love Me I'm a Liberal (Phil Ochs) (17)
There but for fortune/blowin in the wind (23)
(origins) Origins: Santo Domingo (Phil Ochs) (8)
Lyr Add: Here's to the State of Mississippi (Ochs) (14)
Lyr Add: Knock on the Door (Phil Ochs) (1)
Lyr Add: 'Cops of the World' redux (8)
Chords Req: A Year to Go By (Phil Ochs) (15)
Phil Ochs Chords....Also Don McClean (8)
Tune Req: Outside of a Small Circle of Friends (7)
Lyr Add: Flower Lady (Phil Ochs) (6)
Lyr Add: /Correction: 'Changes' (Phil Ochs) (6)
Tune Req: Phil Ochs (7)
Lyr/Chords Req: Draft Dodgers Blues (4) (closed)
Lyr Req: Cops of the World (Phil Ochs) (3)
Chords: Draft Dodger Rag (12)
Chords Req: This Old World Is Changing Hands (Ochs (1)
Link: Phil Ochs Lyric Index (7)
Lyr Req: There But for Fortune (Phil Ochs) (25)
Lyr Req: Scorpion Departs But Never Returns (Ochs) (11)


GUEST,Jimmy Bomba 10 Feb 09 - 02:14 PM
Will Fly 10 Feb 09 - 02:34 PM
Will Fly 10 Feb 09 - 02:34 PM
Rafflesbear 10 Feb 09 - 03:49 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 10 Feb 09 - 04:28 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 10 Feb 09 - 04:30 PM
GUEST,Gerry 10 Feb 09 - 05:50 PM
GUEST,Jimmy Bomba 10 Feb 09 - 05:56 PM
M.Ted 11 Feb 09 - 12:30 AM
Rog Peek 11 Feb 09 - 07:00 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 11 Feb 09 - 09:47 PM
Amos 12 Feb 09 - 12:54 AM
Will Fly 12 Feb 09 - 03:39 AM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:





Subject: Draft Dodger Rag: ragtime or not?
From: GUEST,Jimmy Bomba
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 02:14 PM

Does Phil Ochs' Draft Dodger Rag really qualify as a "rag" from a musical standpoint, or is just the name of the song?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Draft Dodger Rag: ragtime or not?
From: Will Fly
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 02:34 PM

Depends what your definition of "rag" is. Classic ragtime - a la Scott Jolin and others - employs a classical thematic format. Typically: A-A-B-B-A-C-C-D-D. The Maple Leaf is a fine example.

In the folk & blues world, "rag" can be anything the composer wants it to be. "Rag, Mama, Rag" is a typical example from the band; "Rag Mama Blues" is (I think) a Blind Blake offering (someone will correct me if I'm wrong here, I'm sure!). "Feel-Like-I'm-Fixin'-To-die-Rag" is an offering from Country Joe - but based largely on the old jazz standard "Muskrat Ramble"...

Depends on how severe you want to be with the definition!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Draft Dodger Rag: ragtime or not?
From: Will Fly
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 02:34 PM

"Jolin", of course, is "Joplin" - just typing!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Draft Dodger Rag: ragtime or not?
From: Rafflesbear
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 03:49 PM

Listen to it on YouTube and you'll hear everything from Rag to Ballad

I think this one is up at the Raggy end of the scale but then I'm not technical on these things

Draft Dodger Rag


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Draft Dodger Rag: ragtime or not?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 04:28 PM

Will Fly - nailed it precisely.

It is NOT ragtime in the traditional sense. I would consider it a burlesque honky tonk...in the protest ballad style genre of "I gotta letter from LJB"

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Draft Dodger Rag: ragtime or not?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 04:30 PM

Why do you ask GUEST,Jammy Bomba??

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Draft Dodger Rag: ragtime or not?
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 05:50 PM

A letter from LJB? Hmm, that must have been the one by Tom Patxon.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Draft Dodger Rag: ragtime or not?
From: GUEST,Jimmy Bomba
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 05:56 PM

I am not the most musically knowledgeable person. I just found myself wondering...

I got a letter from LJB(sic) that would be "Lyndon Johnson Told the nation" by Tom Paxton.

thanks all

Jimmy.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Draft Dodger Rag: ragtime or not?
From: M.Ted
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 12:30 AM

It is a pretty standard ragtime tune--not the usual subject matter, but a solid ragtime tune, nonetheless.

Back in college, a close friend and music companion was offered the job of tenor banjoist in the house "ragtime band" at a Shakey's Pizza because the piano player had heard him play two songs, one of which was "Draft Dodger Rag", the other being "Alice's Restaurant". He didn't even have a tenor banjo--it payed scale--


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Draft Dodger Rag: ragtime or not?
From: Rog Peek
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 07:00 PM

Tom did a more recent version "George W Told The Nation."
You can listen to it here


Rog


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Draft Dodger Rag: ragtime or not?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 09:47 PM

Well, Susan and Dick

Your efforts paved a hiway through the wilderness

But just as... ORAL Tradition-
.........................Gave way to... WRITTEN Tradition -
....................................................Gave way to... Digital Traditional

It appears that we have arrived at a new tradition of corrupted video and sound compression through YouTube's flash media Tradition.

Not to say, the web-world would NOT have arrived where we are today, but (Dick and Susan) your original notebook contributions certainly extended the folkworld hiway into cyberspace at a more rapid pace.

THANK YOU

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

This thread a good example of the transition.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Draft Dodger Rag: ragtime or not?
From: Amos
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 12:54 AM

It is not ragtime, which is a particular kind of syncopated rhythm made remowned by Joplin, but it is a rag, which is a much more general term meaning a song with a certain kind of sloppy spirit behind it.


A


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Draft Dodger Rag: ragtime or not?
From: Will Fly
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 03:39 AM

There's a common assumption that a "rag" is a tune with a ragged rhythm - a perfectly logical assumption. However, there's also a theory that "ragtime" (from which "rag" derives) refers, not to the rhythm of the tune but the fact that it was used as dance music. The dancers would get dressed up in their best clothes - their "rags" for the function. There's the related phrase "glad rags" - meaning your best clothes.

There was an interesting interview with Jean Ritchie on the recent Folk America series on UK TV, where Jean was describing the New Yorkers going to square dances dressed in blue jeans, checked shirts, etc. - thinking it be authentic to dress that way. The reality being that true country people used such an occasion to get dressed up to the nines - in their "glad rags" (though Jean never used that particular phrase).

Just an alternative thought...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 23 October 3:35 AM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.