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Folk Against Fascism

glueman 22 Jun 09 - 12:45 PM
Stringsinger 22 Jun 09 - 03:48 PM
Richard Bridge 22 Jun 09 - 04:09 PM
Fred McCormick 23 Jun 09 - 09:11 AM
Phil Edwards 23 Jun 09 - 09:55 AM
GUEST,Ex Police Officer 23 Jun 09 - 10:00 AM
jeddy 23 Jun 09 - 10:03 AM
Fred McCormick 23 Jun 09 - 10:23 AM
Rifleman (inactive) 23 Jun 09 - 11:14 AM
Richard Bridge 23 Jun 09 - 11:18 AM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 23 Jun 09 - 11:36 AM
Rifleman (inactive) 23 Jun 09 - 11:39 AM
jeddy 23 Jun 09 - 12:20 PM
Rifleman (inactive) 23 Jun 09 - 12:28 PM
TheSnail 23 Jun 09 - 01:10 PM
Andy Jackson 23 Jun 09 - 01:24 PM
Phil Edwards 23 Jun 09 - 02:08 PM
Phil Edwards 23 Jun 09 - 02:10 PM
Rifleman (inactive) 23 Jun 09 - 02:57 PM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 23 Jun 09 - 03:19 PM
Ruth Archer 23 Jun 09 - 04:56 PM
theleveller 24 Jun 09 - 04:20 AM
Fred McCormick 24 Jun 09 - 05:03 AM
Richard Bridge 24 Jun 09 - 05:09 AM
Fred McCormick 24 Jun 09 - 05:15 AM
Fred McCormick 24 Jun 09 - 05:26 AM
TheSnail 24 Jun 09 - 05:33 AM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 24 Jun 09 - 05:43 AM
Stringsinger 24 Jun 09 - 10:33 AM
Andy Jackson 24 Jun 09 - 11:09 AM
Rifleman (inactive) 24 Jun 09 - 11:20 AM
Royston 24 Jun 09 - 12:48 PM
Fred McCormick 24 Jun 09 - 02:44 PM
Rifleman (inactive) 24 Jun 09 - 02:52 PM
Royston 24 Jun 09 - 03:08 PM
Rifleman (inactive) 24 Jun 09 - 03:11 PM
Rifleman (inactive) 24 Jun 09 - 03:26 PM
Richard Bridge 24 Jun 09 - 05:06 PM
treewind 24 Jun 09 - 05:18 PM
SPB-Cooperator 24 Jun 09 - 05:46 PM
theleveller 25 Jun 09 - 03:37 AM
Fred McCormick 25 Jun 09 - 04:46 AM
theleveller 25 Jun 09 - 05:40 AM
The Sandman 25 Jun 09 - 08:31 AM
Royston 25 Jun 09 - 08:50 AM
jeddy 25 Jun 09 - 10:47 AM
Rifleman (inactive) 25 Jun 09 - 11:13 AM
Phil Edwards 25 Jun 09 - 11:33 AM
Rifleman (inactive) 25 Jun 09 - 11:37 AM
TheSnail 25 Jun 09 - 11:48 AM
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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: glueman
Date: 22 Jun 09 - 12:45 PM

The original Glueman gets all English in a war on fascism.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Stringsinger
Date: 22 Jun 09 - 03:48 PM

Fred, you are so right. There is no pure folk culture or unique national expression because there are always elements from predecessors or other parts of the world.

Cecil Sharp was hunting English Folk Song in the Appalachians in the US because he thought that this was the isolated carry over from early times which he considered not
to be extant in his time in England. Hence, the search which in my view culminated in a American musical expression. Of course, Sharp thought that the five-string banjo was a bowdlerization of the "English" folk song (I guess in the way that some would consider the electric guitar as such for any acoustic folk song.)

Understanding the roots of any given culture leads to antecedents that influence it.
Music from Galicia, Spain on Irish piping or traditional music might be
a case in point. (The Celts got around).

So if there is no pure race, nationality or culture, this then begs the question as to what defines a culture that excludes everything else not part of it.

Folk Against Fascism can show that the roots of English music run deep as a river flowing from other tributaries. This has little to do with a mythologized identity based on xenophobia.

When visiting St. Anne's College in Cape Breton, we talked to Mrs. Jones who really studied Scottish music and culture. Here's where they teach piping, dancing, fiddling etc.
Her statement was quite clear. "The Scots are the biggest mutts in the world."

Frank Hamilton


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 Jun 09 - 04:09 PM

"bowdlerisation"?

Surely not!


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 23 Jun 09 - 09:11 AM

Breaking news. The Equality and Human Rights Commission http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/media-centre/bnp-commission-takes-action-over-potential-breach-of-race-discrimination-law/ has just written to the BNP over its "whites only" Membership and employment policies. The letter argues that these breach the 2006 Equality Act and has given the BNP 30 days to reply.

Failure to supply an adequate answer could result in the EHRC issuing an injunction.

The full text of the Commission's letter is at http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/uploaded_files/letter_before_claim_final.doc


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 23 Jun 09 - 09:55 AM

Actually the Equality Act 2006 is the act that empowers the EHRC to police breaches of the Race Relations Act 1976, which is the legislation the BNP is (fairly clearly) guilty of breaching. Interesting times!


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: GUEST,Ex Police Officer
Date: 23 Jun 09 - 10:00 AM

Fred, I was a copper and I wasn't allowed to join the Black Police Association. Will the Equality and Human rights commission be talking to them ?


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: jeddy
Date: 23 Jun 09 - 10:03 AM

i wonder whether they will change the rules or cop the punishment?

if they change the rules i wonder if anyone would even try to get in knowing how they would be treated.

maybe that is what needs to happen so the racist disrimination could be reported from inside the party, now there would be a very brave person indeed!!

take care all

jade x x


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 23 Jun 09 - 10:23 AM

GUEST,Ex Police Officer. Evenin' all. Or is that DMR raising his ugly head again.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 23 Jun 09 - 11:14 AM

"Fred, I was a copper and I wasn't allowed to join the Black Police Association. Will the Equality and Human rights commission be talking to them ?"

First off, impersonating a police officer is an offence under the law.

second off, you, DMR or whatever your calling youself this week, are the single most offensive SOB I have ever had the misfortune to run across (too bad I can't run you over *LOL*). You feel so safe hiding behind your 'Guest' name don't you? Why? Because you are a coward, as all you sort is, you don't mind going round in gangs, beating up (and murdering) whomever offends you, but catch anyone of you alone, and you're whistling a different tune.

I do hope I never catch you alone.......


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Jun 09 - 11:18 AM

The twerps' latest game is

1. Hack the facebook account of a FaF member ("the first member")
2. Use it to complain to other FaF members ("the second members") that a third FaF member has forwarded to the first FaF member (the hackee) an offensive message originating with third member.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 23 Jun 09 - 11:36 AM

I've emailed Essex University Students Union regards informing them of FaF plans to organise gigs and so forth. Essex Uni has a high proportion of foreign students, and the county of Essex itself has a lot of BNP support. So hopefully the SU might find the initiative one worth getting on board with.

Considering in particular the recent resurgence of interest in Brit-Folk amongst younger audiences, I wondered if it might be worth others amongst us doing the same and *contacting their local Uni's SU*, to see what interest and/or support there might be for the campaign amongst the UK's student population.

A thought?


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 23 Jun 09 - 11:39 AM

That's all that sort has, underhanded tactics, as has been proven so many times, theyn daren't show themselves in the light of day, they're too cowardly.

DMR or whatever your calling yourself this week, pick on others who post here, and on the FaF site, and you pick on me, not a wise move, but then again wisdom isn't high on the BNP,s list of attributes is it?

I do hope I never catch you alone.......


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: jeddy
Date: 23 Jun 09 - 12:20 PM

i had one of those weird messages, well two actually.

the first one was resonable, the second one said that i had been very offencive and i had been blocked.

i had to ask whether this was real or not, it was a fake.
just to warn others, it is getting confusing i much prefere the nasty ones, at least i know what they are.
i don't see how this lastest tactic,enhances the BNP, or tries to undermined the group.


take care

jade x x


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 23 Jun 09 - 12:28 PM

Messing with our minds ans accounts is the only tactic the BNP and their supporters have, I've seen this sort of thing under other circumstances and events, it's pathetic, but at the same time annoying

As I've already said, they're cowards, nothing more, nothing less.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: TheSnail
Date: 23 Jun 09 - 01:10 PM

As well as the BNP, it's worth keeping an eye out for The Steadfast Trust who gave us a bit of bother here in Sussex a couple of years ago. Select "News and Updates" from the menu to see the sort of thing they are getting up to.

One of their stated objects is -

TO ADVANCE THE EDUCATION OF THE PUBLIC IN ANGLO-SAXON MUSIC AND OTHER FORMS OF ART AND CULTURE (BOTH MODERN AND ANCIENT);

Bryan Creer


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 23 Jun 09 - 01:24 PM

Hmm, The Steadfast Trust. What I found frightening was that it all looked so reasonable and sensible. Only when you think "BNP" does it start to look devious. I have to sk, are we over reacting. Perhaps a bit of elaboration on the "bother" they caused might enlighten.
Much as I loath the very existence of the BNP, I still have a great pride in my Englishness.

FAF Andy


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 23 Jun 09 - 02:08 PM

Really? When was this? I'd be interested* to hear about this, given that the first thing you see when you go to the Web site of the National Black Police Association is the words:

Membership of the NBPA is open to all in policing on application

There is no bar to membership based on colour.


See for yourself.

*That is, I would be interested to hear about it, if I thought for a moment that it had ever happened.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 23 Jun 09 - 02:10 PM

My previous comment was in response to Mr Anonymous, obviously.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 23 Jun 09 - 02:57 PM

This cut and pasted from the resources page of The Steadfast Trust,s website

what word do most of the entries contain?

Says it all doesn't it?


Academic and institutional reports

Many of these reports repeatedly make references to "white boys" or the "white-British" community and people. It is important to understand that in the vast majority of cases what they are actually referring to are under-privileged English boys, English people and the English community.

Report 1 - Manchester University Report

Report 2 - Government Report by Home Office Advisor

Report 3 - Conservative Social Justice Policy Group

Report 4 - Bristol University Report

Report 5 - White British boys most persistent low educational achievers

Report 6 - New study by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation

Report 7 -Lost white boys from The Times

Report 8 - Ethnic minority pupils improving faster in three Rs than white classmates

Report 9 - As Black and Asian teenagers flock to university, WHITE working-class boys are shunning higher education

Report 10 - White teenagers are significantly less likely to go to university than their peers from ethnic minority groups

Report 11 - White children most likely to be bullied

Report 12 - Teachers acting as substitute fathers for White boys

Report 13 - White working class left behind

The Steadfast Trust Resources Page


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 23 Jun 09 - 03:19 PM

There isn't any issue with *recognising and addressing* problems that face young white working class males, because there *are* issues for this group which require addressing, the red herring that groups like Steadfast are insinuating, is that problems associated with young white working class males are somehow 'related to' or worse 'caused by', counterpointed successes within equivalent immigrant groups.

The problem with orgs like Steadfast Trust is that their "interest" in the problems of young white working class males is disingenuous. They're more interested in the scapegoating immigrants, than genuinely becoming constructively involved in sorting out fully home-grown forms of societal dysfunction.

Old story...


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 23 Jun 09 - 04:56 PM

It's important to know who the Steadfast Trust really are, and what they represent. There is a group of very nasty racial purists in England who call themselves Anglo Saxons. They have adopted the white dragon as their symbol - the white dragon that is also the logo of the Steadfast Trust. Even "steadfast" is a coded message: the Steadfast Sword is an "ancient symbol" of the "Ethnically English" and features in their monocultural mythology.

This stuff is used by groups like The Anglo Saxon Foundation - before you click on that link, I have to say it doesn't make for very nice reading. There is some horrible, racist stuff in there. But this is the same group who recently created children's activity packs for the Steadfast Trust to distribute to pubs in Leicester as part of their "English Event Packs". The Steadfast Trust also advertises books sold through the Anglo Saxon Foundation.

How Steadfast ever got charitable status is a complete mystery. But it has legitimised their whole approach - in the same way that Nick Griffin has mainstreamed the BNP with his re-packaging. It's the same old racists and thugs underneath.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: theleveller
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 04:20 AM

Thanks for the information, Ruth. "Know thine enemy" is a good maxim.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 05:03 AM

Folks checking out the Anglo Saxon foundation should look at this page. It makes interesting and, from our point of view, highly significant reading.

http://www.uepengland.com/bbs/index.php?showforum=47


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 05:09 AM

What, you mean the fact that they like Seth Lakeman, Bellowhead, and Krusby? Deep followers of the real tradition in English music?


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 05:15 AM

I've just received the Press Release below from an organisation called Nothing British. I know nothing about them, other than Tim Montgomerie and James Bethell are bother Conservatives. (Hell, I'd shake hands with the devil himself if I thought he'd stick his pitchfork up Griffin's rectum.)

In any event, their website is at http://www.nothingbritish.com/

THERE'S NOTHING BRITISH ABOUT THE BNP

Press release – 23.07.09 – immediate release

Equality and Human Rights Commission "letter of action" to BNP re possible breaches of race law

"There nothing British about an organisation that excludes members or staff on the ground of colour," said James Bethell of Nothing British. "The BNP's membership policy defines it as a party of racists, segregationists and bigots. A successful legal challenge would be a victory for British democratic values."

"Of course, no one likes the idea of a government-appointed quango issuing legal proceedings against a political party with democratically-elected representatives. However, for too long the BNP's membership policy has widely advertised the poisonous suggestion that it's ok to define people according to the colour of their skin. It is time to tell the BNP in simple terms that Britain doesn't tolerate racists."
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Note to editors:-

1.       The BNP's membership policy is outlined in Section 2 of the BNP constitution:-

"1)    … Membership of the BNP is strictly defined within the terms of, and our members also self define themselves within, the legal ambit of a defined 'racial group' this being 'Indigenous Caucasian' and defined 'ethnic groups' emanating from that Race as specified in law in the House of Lords case of Mandla V Dowell Lee (1983) 1 ALL ER 1062, HL.

"2)    The indigenous British ethnic groups deriving from the class of 'Indigenous Caucasian' consist of members of:

i)                   The Anglo-Saxon Folk Community;

ii)                   The Celtic Scottish Folk Community;

iii)                  The Scots-Northern Irish Folk Community;

iv)                The Celtic Welsh Folk Community;

v)                  The Celtic Irish Folk Community;

vi)                The Celtic Cornish Folk Community;

vii)               The Anglo-Saxon-Celtic Folk Community;

viii)             The Celtic-Norse Folk Community;

ix)                The Anglo-Saxon-Norse Folk Community;

x)                  The Anglo-Saxon-Indigenous European Folk Community.

Members of these ethnic groups who reside either within or outside Europe but ethnically derive from them."
2.       "Nothing British" (www.nothingbritish.com) is a campaign against the BNP run by Tim Montgomerie and James Bethell.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There Nothing British About The BNP

www.nothingbritish.com

5 The Sanctuary
London SW1P 3JS
Tel: +44 (0)203 397 0100

DL: +44 (0)203 397 0104
Mob: +44 (0)7802 895 300
Fax: +44 (0)207 222 2079

http://www.nothingbritish.com/


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 05:26 AM

Richard. Please, no cynicism. How about we lock them in a room and play them Harry Cox, Phil Tanner and George Maynard. That would probably be the last anyone heard of The Anglo Saxon Foundation.

Anyway, I asked a question on this thread a few days ago, about whether Griffin's great grandfather had been a travelling Hawker. I've just found the following on the Nothing British site.

Nick Griffin's great-grandfather a tinker, says The Express on Sunday

Nick Griffin's great-grandfather was an itinerant "licensed hawker dealing in china and crockery ware" who probably lived in a caravan, according to census information revealed by the Daily Express.

The revelation comes in the same week as attacks on Griffin denied that BNP were behind attacks on gypsies in Northern Ireland.

"We have to bear in mind that the gypsy community is notorious for its extremely high rate of criminality and antisocial behaviour," said Griffin, 50.

"Everyone in Romania and Eastern Europe nows this and it is one reason why their governments are so keen to encourage them to come over here."

The full story can be read at the Sunday Express website; http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/108958/Derek-family-secrets-of-BNP-leader-Nick-Griffin .

Thinks. "So that's what explains Griffin's criminal behaviour. It's in his genes, mate, that's what it is. It's in his genes."


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: TheSnail
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 05:33 AM

Miskin Man

Perhaps a bit of elaboration on the "bother" they caused might enlighten.

I don't wnat to get too bogged down with long accounts but this is the basic story.

A new chap appeared on the scene with a genuine interest in traditional music, in particular English traditional song. He seemed very tentative at first but I persuaded him to get more involved and he eventually started to sing; not great but competent and showing a good understanding of the material.

Once in, he turned out to be a good organiser and ran a number of events financed by his local council. He got some traditional music into his daughter's primary school. He had some over romanticised ideas about the golden age of Anglo-Saxon England and professed to be a worshipper of Odin but that just seemd to be harmless eccentricity. Politics was never mentioned. We thought he was a useful addition to the scene.

Then he blew it. He announced himself to a rather random list of people as the regional spokesman for The Steadfast Trust in a press pack that included an emphasis on the importance of the North West European gene pool and rants against immigration.

I hoped that the right had just latched on to a naive enthusiast who might prove useful to them and I tried to persuade him of the error of his ways but to no avail. I later found he was well in with right wing figures and had articles published in BNP publications.

When my arguments failed, I made sure that everybody who needed to know did so and that he knew that they knew. He hasn't been seen much since although he did run one succesful St George's Day event.

Bryan Creer


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 05:43 AM

Anyone know what the story behind Griffins fifteen yr. old "folk singer" daughter is?

I got the impression he intends to use her as a propaganda tool for attracting kids to the cause, much in the same way that Prussian Blue - the folk singing blonde teenagers in the 'happy Hitler' tee's - were used with some success, by white supremacists in the US.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Stringsinger
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 10:33 AM

The nature of folk music is not restrictive otherwise it becomes a shallow copy rather than a full-blown living representation of a folk culture. It sounds to me that these erstwhile Anglo-Saxon groups are using folk music as a synthetic veneer, not a vital tradition.
Music is a unifier. Unfortunately there were Nazi songs that were intended to unify some sick people.

Hitler used Wagner (who was an anti-semite) in this way. The myths were intended to bolster the supremacy view. It became a characterized cartoon of itself.

Bluegrass music runs the same danger in the US. I don't like to see the rebel Confederate battle flags flying at these events.

Association by ideology that promote racial supremacy with certain musics are destined to
be laughed at by future generations. The BNP are neo-Nazis that will not be important in
the annals of history.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 11:09 AM

Thanks Snail, I've been looking around at the Anglo Saxon Foundation. This mischevious bunch come over first as a lot of well meaning weirdos, but further investigation reveals a nasty streak. They seem to be a more acceptable face of BNP thinking but they are just the thin end of the wedge, and as such very dangerous.

FAF Andy


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 11:20 AM

I was listening to some music by that truly great, but very underated, English composer Samuel Coleridge-Taylor(1875-1912

"He called himself an Anglo-African and fought against race prejudice all his short life."
100 Great Black Britons


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Royston
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 12:48 PM

Re: The National Black Police Association

The membership is open to anyone who supports the aims of the association; which is to advocate and advance the interests of black and minority ethnic police officers. It is exempt from certain provisions of the race relations act because it is clearly stated to be an voluntary association to support and speak for a minority ethnic interest.

The Race Relation Act exemptions are there to provide safe spaces for minority interests, I see nothing wrong with this.

The same cannot be said of a political party (BNP or any other) which seeks the power, by democratic means, to impose its will over the entire populous. Such a group must, as a democratic necessity, be open to all members of the electorate over which it seeks power.

At present the BNP mebership criteria excludes any consituent who is not white-skinned. This is intolerable.

As soon as the unlawful exclusions are removed (as I assume the BNP will feel forced to comply with the law, wishing not to be proscribed), then all fair-minded people of all flesh-tones can join and vote at AGM to close it down or reform it totally - The British Floral Party or something harmless.

I can't wait.

Now I think on it, why should all fair-minded white-skinned people not join tomorrow, outnumber the existing membership and sort the whole wretched lot out?


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 02:44 PM

Royston. Thanks for clarifying that point. It is gut wrenching hypocrisy for the BNP to claim exemption from sections 26 and 27 on the grounds of discrimination.

Re. the question of fair minded people joining. My guess is that an application from anyone they didn't like would just get lost in the bureaucracy. Either that, or they'd take your subscription fee and forget to get back in touch.

Also, my understanding is that the BNP isn't a democracy. Rather, although they have elections and votes, the Great Fat Whit Git has ultimate control over everything which transpires within the organisation. So votinmg to close it down would get nowhere.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 02:52 PM

"As soon as the unlawful exclusions are removed (as I assume the BNP will feel forced to comply with the law, wishing not to be proscribed), then all fair-minded people of all flesh-tones can join and vote at AGM to close it down or reform it totally - The British Floral Party or something harmless."

dream on, it isn't going to happen


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Royston
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 03:08 PM

Rifleman, I kinda like dreaming...

But seriously, the CRE letter is the opening gambit in a well planned series of actions which will open up the BNP membership and neuter it from the inside. I'm in a position to know...not that my anti-fascist and trade-unionist colleagues are wanting to hide it, there are no secrets here!


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 03:11 PM

"But seriously...."

dream on, it isn't going to happen


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 03:26 PM

"What, you mean the fact that they like Seth Lakeman, Bellowhead, and Krusby? Deep followers of the real tradition in English music?"

I don't have a problem with the preceding artists, AND Bellowhead do know how to have a good time, unlike some.....

Just because Richard Bridge doesn't like them and just because the Anglo Saxon Foundation mention them, doesn't mean I'm going to stop listening to them, along with The Copper Family, Lizzie Higgins, The Brazil Family, Oak, Tiger Moth, The Band etc..etc..


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 05:06 PM

Yes, but if the BNP was serious about Heritage with a capital H, then it would be into roots white music, not SL, BH and KR. The lists of preferences exposes them as dilletante opportunists.

A far as I'm concerned you can listen to whomsoever you like.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: treewind
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 05:18 PM

"The lists of preferences exposes them as dilettante opportunists."

Well yes, but would we expect anything different?

They are desperate to exploit anything they can, but it's got to have some popular appeal or it won't suit their purpose.

A.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 05:46 PM

Re: Nick Griffins comments with regards to attacks on Romanians.

I have just spoken to the police regrading post 24th June 5:26am.

In my opinion this looks like incitement, particularly in respaect of the generalisations.

If there is a verifiable and provable source of the comments, then this should be reported to local police stations.

So please provide verifiable source of the information sop that as many people as possible can independantly press for criminal proceedings to be instigated.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: theleveller
Date: 25 Jun 09 - 03:37 AM

"dream on, it isn't going to happen"

I have to agree with Rifleman, there. Anyway, it would only drive them underground. It's better that their views are out in the open so that they can be constantly countered, challenged and refuted, as is happening from movements like FAF and many others.

If we truly believe in free speech, even an organisation as rank as the BNP has to be allowed the opportunity to put forward its opinions. But – and here's the caveat – as I quoted on another thread, from John Stuart Mill , "No one pretends that actions should be as free as opinion".

I believe, probably optimistically, that the current apparent increase in the popularity of the BNP is simply due to temporary discontent with other political parties, with the result that people feel disenfranchised and so vote for minority parties. This doesn't mean, of course, that we should be any less vigilant or diligent in countering these racists at every opportunity.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 25 Jun 09 - 04:46 AM

SPB. I doubt that Griffin's comments could be legally interpreted as incitement - unfortunately. All he's saying (ostensibly) is that he condemns the harrassment but understands the reasons.

Leveller. "If we truly believe in free speech, even an organisation as rank as the BNP has to be allowed the opportunity to put forward its opinions. But – and here's the caveat – as I quoted on another thread, from John Stuart Mill , "No one pretends that actions should be as free as opinion".

We have to be careful here. To external appearances at any rate, the BNP is a legal political party which brings with it the trappings of constitutionality. Provided they stay within the law, there is nothing we can or should do to stop them. That however does not stop us from organising against them, or exposing them as a bunch of liars and hypocrites. Anyone who saw Griffin being interviewed by a Sky News reporter, on the night of his election victory, will have seen one great fat white git being tied up in knots, because he couldn't admit the contradictions which exist between their supposedly moderate stance and the reality of the programme they put forward.

I'd love to see Griffin on Question Time. The rest of the panel would make mincemeat of him.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: theleveller
Date: 25 Jun 09 - 05:40 AM

"That however does not stop us from organising against them, or exposing them as a bunch of liars and hypocrites. Anyone who saw Griffin being interviewed by a Sky News reporter, on the night of his election victory, will have seen one great fat white git being tied up in knots, because he couldn't admit the contradictions which exist between their supposedly moderate stance and the reality of the programme they put forward."

Absolutely! Bring this vermin out from under their stones and watch them shrivel in the heat and light of proper scrutiny.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Jun 09 - 08:31 AM

unfortunately MBSGEORGE,refused to enter into a discussion.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Royston
Date: 25 Jun 09 - 08:50 AM

Theleveller,

We are not proposing to push the BNP underground or to silence its members. If they are going to be a representative political party (they now have MEP's!!) then we will ensure they have a fair and open membership policy and the party will be driven and directed by the democratic will of those members.

Now if BNP'ers want to maintain their "white purity" message then they are free to organise as an "Association of White Supremacists" (or any other name of their choosing) and on that basis they may even warrant exemption from the Race Relations Act. However, they will not be permitted to remain a political party without having an open membership policy and a democratic structure. That's fair enough isn't it?


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: jeddy
Date: 25 Jun 09 - 10:47 AM

royston, i agree that the BNP should be allowed to hbold whatever views they wish. i just wish they would be open and honest about what they believe. then we could keep an eye on them knowing that vunerable people would not get caught up in their lies.

but they know that if they did that they would lose alot of support!! so they won't.

the only thing we can do is keep taking them on in a resonable way and pointing out to others that what you see is not what you get.

take care all

jade x x


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 25 Jun 09 - 11:13 AM

"However, they will not be permitted to remain a political party without having an open membership policy and a democratic structure. That's fair enough isn't it?

Oh won't they? this sound very dictatorial to me. Are you going to be the first to sign up with the BNP and start 'making changes from within'? Because unless you are you have little or no say in the whys and wherefores of ANY politcal entity. The membership pays their dues therefore the membership has the right to make policy.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 25 Jun 09 - 11:33 AM

The membership pays their dues therefore the membership has the right to make policy.

Sounds reasonable, but imagine this:

RULE 42. Any member of this Party shall have the right to remove goods from any retail outlet of their choosing without making payment, and without being penalised for this.

No concern of anyone but the members?

The point at issue with regard to the BNP's Constitution is exactly the same - not that we don't think it's very nice, but that it may be illegal.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 25 Jun 09 - 11:37 AM

"but that it may be illegal."
Until guilt has been proven, innocence must be pressumed, regardless.


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Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: TheSnail
Date: 25 Jun 09 - 11:48 AM

Rifleman

Until guilt has been proven

Proven many times.


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