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BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: Jack Campin Date: 11 Jul 13 - 02:32 PM The leaks seem to be getting rapidly worse, particularly from reactor 2: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia-pacific/2013/07/201371020235219819.html |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 01 Jun 13 - 01:40 PM It certainly bothers me. Some fish have ranges far outside coastal areas; are Pacific salmon, tuna, etc. that we buy in the can or market, guaranteed to have stayed away from contaminated waters? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: gnu Date: 01 Jun 13 - 05:45 AM Thanks, Q. Still simply scary! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 31 May 13 - 07:50 PM Japan Times, May 21. "Fukushima No. 1 Can't Keep Its Head Above Tainted Water." "....workers continue to wage a desperate battle to keep the stricken reactors cool while trying to contain the 400tons of radioactive water produced by the process each day." "Tokyo Electric Power must decommission the three reactors but the water is thwarting the effort. The decommissioning, if it ever starts, will take decades." 290,000 tons have been routed into 940 huge tanks, but 94,000 tons remain ....inside the building. Tepco must perpetually pour water over the melted cores of reactors 1, 2 and 3 to prevent the fuel from melting and burning again. The dangerous radioactive levels of the water in the basement prevent workers from fully assessing the damage, let alone starting decommissioning. Groundwater is entering the basement and mixing with the contaminated coolant water. Tepco is proposing dumping some of the contaminated water into the already contaminated sea, after processing to remove "most" of the radioactive isotopes. The above adds to the post by Jack Campin. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: Jack Campin Date: 31 May 13 - 10:53 AM Fishermen in the area left with no real work and no future: http://www.newsdaily.com/article/0832f62e5828a21c00db47642f1a6d27/rising-radioactive-spills-leave-fukushima-fishermen-floundering |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: Charley Noble Date: 08 May 13 - 09:01 PM The only news I've picked up recently is that another derelict fishing boat has washed up on the California coast. The major issue for the Japanese displaced from the evacuation zone, beyond their health and economic issues, is being shunned by the rest of Japanese society. That certainly happened to victims of the atomic bombing and is most likely happening to the victims of the Fukushima nuclear disaster. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: gnu Date: 08 May 13 - 08:33 PM Sad in the beginning. Sad in the present non-existance. Sad in the future. My only hope is that mistakes were learned and won't be repeated... no matter the $ cost. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 08 May 13 - 07:42 PM Other stories about contaminated ground water, fish, and estimate of 40 years to "clean up" the Fukushima plant. An area around the plant is closed to habitation and will remain so for many decades or more. A copy of Chernobyl. NO estimates on "clean-up." The press is tired of the story but it is a continuing, unfolding disaster. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: gnu Date: 08 May 13 - 06:14 PM Been a while and a Google doesn't bring up much news except crap like the spill wasn't a big deal. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: Charley Noble Date: 26 Oct 12 - 05:05 PM Jim- Yes, more grim reports: Sample fish caught in waters near the stricken reactors suggest there is still a source of caesium either on the seafloor or still being discharged into the sea, perhaps from what is left of the cooling waters. As the levels of radioactive isotopes in the fish are not declining as fast as they should have, the outlook for fishing in the area is likely to be poor for the next 10 years, the paper's author told the Guardian. "These fish could have to be banned for a long time. The most surprising thing for me was that the levels [of radioactivity] in the fish were not going down. There should have been much lower numbers," said Ken Buesseler, senior scientist at the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution in the US, who wrote the paper titled Fishing For Answers Off Fukushima. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: Jim Martin Date: 26 Oct 12 - 11:56 AM Latest report from The Guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/oct/25/fukushima-fish-inedible-decade-radioactivity |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: Charley Noble Date: 25 Oct 12 - 10:11 PM gnu- I was thinking the same within an hour of the initial reports, hoping that I was mistaken. Of course the disaster that unfolded that week was well beyond anything I had imagined, and except for bravery and luck, it could have been much worse. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: gnu Date: 25 Oct 12 - 03:02 PM Worse than Godzilla. It would be ironic if it were not so tragic. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: Charley Noble Date: 25 Oct 12 - 02:12 PM Here's another grim update on the troubles TPECO is having trying to deal with the ever increasing volume of radioactive contaminated water at the Fukushima nuclear complex: click here for report! Masashi Goto, nuclear engineer and college lecturer, said the contaminated water build-up posed a big, long-term health and environmental threat. He worried that the radioactive water in the basements may already be getting into the underground water system, where it could reach far beyond the plant via underground water channels, possibly in the ocean or public water supplies. "There are pools of some 10,000 or 20,000 tonnes of contaminated water in each plant, and there are many of these, and to bring all these to one place would mean you would have to treat hundreds of thousands of tons of contaminated water which is mind-blowing in itself," Goto said. "It's an outrageous amount, truly outrageous" Goto added. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: gnu Date: 15 Oct 12 - 07:20 PM I'll second that... those. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: Charley Noble Date: 15 Oct 12 - 06:00 PM Thanks, MG. Looking forward to hearing you featured at next year's Mystic Sea Music Festival. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: GUEST,999 Date: 15 Oct 12 - 05:33 PM Good song, MG. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: GUEST,mg Date: 15 Oct 12 - 02:19 PM It will wash up to my front door ... Here is a song...based on a phrase they requested.."fishing is in our blood." There is a you tube video of a man who did exactly what the song says..jumped into his boat to save his island from being cut off from resources..before I could put a tune to it it jumped onto the Boys ofKillibegs... TSUNAMI SONG Fishing's in our blood but now our boats are filled with mud And our docks are smashed and scattered far and wide And our nets and floats and gear are taken far from here And they drift upon the ocean and the tide Island folk are we who make our living from the sea But we know too well the shaking of the ground I jumped into my boat though fear was in my throat And I passed by many men I knew would drown For the island to be saved I had to head into that wave I just did what any fisherman would do 30 meters high and it blotted out the sky And I had to just hold on and plough on through You across the seas who gather our debris Do you hear our cries above the ocean's roar And as our ships wash in do you think of all those men Who will have fishing in their blood forevermore |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: Charley Noble Date: 15 Oct 12 - 08:06 AM Jim- Thanks for posting the above link to this alarming report of radiation poisoning off the Alaskan coast. The higher than normal deaths of seals and other sea life may well be related to the initial radioactive aerial plume that spread out through the area last March. The effects of low level radiation contamination are fiercely debated within the scientific community. The continuing impact of the Fukushima nuclear meltdown will certainly be a case study in this debate for years to come. In addition to the radioactive plume in the air, there is the radioactive debris in the ocean described in the above report. Some of the items washing ashore may have been exposed to high levels of radiation, during the explosions and fires at the 4 reactor units in the nuclear complex. If so, they could be a threat to living creatures and plants for thousands of years. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: Jim Martin Date: 15 Oct 12 - 05:59 AM Washington's Blog reports ring seals washing up possibly contaminated: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/09/fukushima-radiation-japan-irradiates-the-west-coast-of-north-america.html |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: Charley Noble Date: 14 Oct 12 - 11:00 AM Of course this story has long lost public attention, except for people in Japan. The direct consequences of this disaster will adversely impact generations of Japanese. But for the nuclear industry it is merely an annoying blip on their otherwise impeccable business plan. In five years, if not sooner, they will be "re-educating" the public through a multi-million dollar ad campaign that nuclear energy is the clean and safe alternative to fossil fuels. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: gnu Date: 13 Oct 12 - 08:49 PM That is disconcerting. BUT... "managers" don't lose their jobs and entire careers when they fuck up BAD. So, they did what they needed to do. Humans are gonna fuck up the works. Just a matter of time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: Charley Noble Date: 13 Oct 12 - 08:42 PM I suppose I could have posted this update months ago but TEPCO just released its statement today, admitting that they knew that additional measures needed to be taken to safeguard their nuclear plant complex from tsunamis: Click here for report "It was possible to take action in regard of tsunami defense based on the company's earlier tsunami evaluations and it was also possible to diversify safety systems by referencing severe accident measures taken in other countries, the draft also said." If those measures had been taken the entire disaster might have been avoided. The plant managers worried that if more measures were taken, the public would conclude that nuclear power was unsafe. Shit! Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: Charley Noble Date: 08 Aug 12 - 09:45 AM "Tepco has bowed to pressure to release 150 hours of teleconferencing footage but the tape was heavily edited and mostly muted to "protect employees' privacy". So you could see the back of former PM Naoto Kan, who appeared angry in the tape, but you could not hear him as only one third of the released footage was audible. The other parts showed workers' frustration with Mr Kan as well as the then plant manager of the Fukushima Daiichi power plant, Masao Yoshida, asking his management to stop asking him so many questions and not to disturb him." Always interesting to gain a little more knowledge of what went on, and, of course, more questions arise. The nuclear industry, however, marches on, hoping that the public will soon forget this unseemly event. I've been attending a national meeting of state legislators this week in Chicago, my wife is a legislative staff person, and I was not surprised at the "fact sheet" I found at a booth of the Nuclear Energy Institute; it was dated 2010 and there was no mention of Fukushima. There was also not a clue how many thousands of years "spent fuel" was dangerous to humans and other living things. And they still identified Yucca Mountain as the national repository for high level nuclear waste, funding has been withdrawn and it is no longer considered a viable storage option. Charley Noble, adrift in Chicago |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: GUEST,Peter Laban Date: 07 Aug 12 - 01:29 PM TEPCO releases recordings of Fukushima nuclear crisis 'Tokyo Electric Power Company (Tepco), owner of the crippled Fukushima nuclear plant, has released footage of how it managed meltdowns in three reactors.' |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: Charley Noble Date: 23 Jul 12 - 01:28 PM The major conclusion of the article is that Fukashima lack of preparation for a complex catastrophe with multiple nuclear plants on site is not unique. The same critique is sadly true of many nuclear complexes in the States as well as those in other parts of the world. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: GUEST,Peter Laban Date: 23 Jul 12 - 10:00 AM 'New report on Fukushima casts doubt on other nuclear facilities' preparedness for complex catastrophe' Article |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: gnu Date: 22 Jul 12 - 09:22 PM And... when they told the lads to shield their eyes with their hands at the test blasts. They could see the bones in their hands. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: Charley Noble Date: 22 Jul 12 - 07:57 PM Sad but true. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: gnu Date: 22 Jul 12 - 11:35 AM My old man and his mates did it at the cleanup of the disaster in Chalk River and also in the course of daily duties dealing with cobalt. All have/had extensive cancer(s). No doubt it occurred elsewhere, USA too. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: SINSULL Date: 22 Jul 12 - 11:28 AM Wonder where that executive was at the time and did his badge have a foil cover? What else did they lie about? Guess we have to wait 40 years to find out like Chernobyl and Three Mile Island we will wait for the truth. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: gnu Date: 21 Jul 12 - 11:54 AM Where's Harry Kerry when ya need him? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: Charley Noble Date: 21 Jul 12 - 11:24 AM Jack- Thanks for the update: Between November and March this year, a group of Build-Up employees were working at Fukushima, trying to restore facilities. In December, a Build-Up executive told them to cover their dosimeters with lead casings when working in areas with high radiation. Otherwise, he warned, they would quickly reach the legal limit of 50 millisieverts' exposure in a year, and they would have to stop working. Hope they get sued and put in jail big time. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: Jack Campin Date: 21 Jul 12 - 07:15 AM TEPCO told workers at Fukushima to disable their dosimeters with lead foil: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-18936831 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: Charley Noble Date: 19 Jul 12 - 08:38 AM The good news is that TEPCO is beginning the process of shifting the highly radioactive used fuel rods from the spent fuel pool at the No. 4 reactor to one of its large centralized spent fuel pools. They've shifted two rods so far with another 1400 or so to go. At this rate they'll complete the job in two to three years. The bad news is the walls of the damaged reactor building are now bulging and if the building collapsed the spent fuel pool would be breached as well, and there would be a catastrophic meltdown of the remaining used fuel rods, with no containment. It always struck nuclear power critics as dangerous to have large spent fuel pools designed above the reactor vessels in these buildings. True, it made shifting fuel rods out of the reactor very convenient but they were still very dangerous and required long term cooling. It would have been safer to have shifted them off-site to a centralized facility after a relatively short period of cooling. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: Charley Noble Date: 10 Jul 12 - 05:46 PM Thanks, Jack. I suppose I have to do my homework now and try to summarize this. But not today! Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: gnu Date: 10 Jul 12 - 03:46 PM There's only so much time in a day. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: Jack Campin Date: 10 Jul 12 - 03:20 PM Okay, got the report now. VERY interesting reading. They have uncovered a lot of fuckups the media hasn't covered at all. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: Jack Campin Date: 10 Jul 12 - 01:46 PM The BBC on an official report on just how badly TEPCO screwed up: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18751374 The report itself (still downloading for me, seems a slow server): http://naiic.go.jp/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/NAIIC_report_lo_res.pdf |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: Charley Noble Date: 31 May 12 - 07:56 AM I'm reminded about the spike in childhood leukemias that was observed around the Maine Yankee nuclear plant, within its evacuation zone. We had a devil of a time getting the state health agency to collect the information and then release it for our analysis. And once the maps were produced showing an increase in the prevailing wind zones of the plant over several decades, we still couldn't get "real scientists" to initiate more systematic research. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: GUEST,mg Date: 30 May 12 - 11:52 PM Remember the idiot people at some official fisheries in US refusing to test fish right away for a baseline? Oh it just was not necessary. We are awaiting the tsunami debris where I live..probably radioactive salmon too. mg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: Charley Noble Date: 30 May 12 - 10:53 PM The amount of radioactive cesium measured in these bluefin tuna does appear quite "trivial" for now but that's not to say other fish, especially the carnivores, may accumulate greater concentrations. The safe thing would be to do systematic testing before more highly radioactive fish make their way to the market. Unfortunately by the time scientists document the impact of the Fukushima disaster on the surrounding population it will be too late to do much to help the people affected. Some cancers take decades to develop. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: Desert Dancer Date: 30 May 12 - 07:45 PM On the tuna (NPR): Yes, radiation in seafood seems scary. But here's the catch (if you pardon the expression). Tuna, like every other food on the planet, already contains naturally occurring radiation. It has potassium-40 and polonium-210. It always has and it always will. In addition, seafood in general contains a trace of cesium-137 left over from nuclear weapons testing in the 1950s and 1960s. and from Nature on direct effects of Fukushima radiation on people: The large population involved could mean that the eventual number of radiation-induced cancers among the public will actually be higher than among workers, even though the risk to each individual civilian is tiny, says David Brenner, a radiologist at Columbia University in New York city. But he doubts a direct link will ever be definitively made. Under normal circumstances, "40% of everybody will get cancer", he says. "It doesn't seem to me that it's possible to do an epidemiological study that will see an increased risk." Still, it may be valuable to conduct studies to reassure the population that they are not being misled, he adds. ~ Becky in Tucson |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: Charley Noble Date: 30 May 12 - 07:48 AM Oh, and there's a cherry report from Southern California. Evidently the San Onofre nuclear power plant operating in an earthquake/Tsunami zone has been operating with defective safety backup equipment since 1981. Equipment used for decades at California's troubled San Onofre nuclear power plant might have temporarily severed the plant's emergency power supply during an earthquake. Operator Southern California Edison said Tuesday it's disabled the equipment and is investigating. The company reported the issue to federal regulators as "an unanalyzed condition that significantly degraded plant safety." Edison says other backup systems were in place. At issue are vibration sensors in use since 1981 on emergency diesel generators. The generators start if the plant loses its outside power supply — a possibility during an earthquake. But engineers at the idled plant between Los Angeles and San Diego found the sensors might incorrectly shut down the generators during an earthquake. The plant needs power to control heat in the twin reactors. Have a nice day! Charley "Sunshine" Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: Charley Noble Date: 30 May 12 - 07:39 AM "I suppose on the bright side, scientists will be able to map the migration patterns of their favorite fish more accurately because of this nuclear disaster." Well, today I heard on NPR scientists gushing over their good fortune in now having a better way to track fish migration, all thanks to the Fukushima nuclear disaster. Q- Thanks for the additional reference to "Former Japanese PM Naoto Kan called for end to nuclear power in Japan." This is not an experience that will be forgotten soon in Japan, unlike here in the States or Canada. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 29 May 12 - 02:28 PM Former Japanese PM Naoto Kan called for end to nuclear power in Japan. He said the Fukushima accident had pushed Japan to the brink of "national collapse." He warned that the politically powerful nuclear industry was trying to push Japan back toward nuclear power despite "showing no remorse" for the accident. Mr. Kan said the accident had brought Japan to the brink of evacuating metropolitan Tokyo and its 30 million residents, and that the loss of the capital would have paralyzed the national government, leading to "a collapse of the nation's ability to function." NY Times, "Japan's Former Leader Condemns Nuclear Power," Martin Fackler, Published May 28, 2012. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: Charley Noble Date: 29 May 12 - 11:44 AM Welcome back, Donuel! Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: Donuel Date: 29 May 12 - 10:04 AM This year I am replacing all the water in the big pool. Swimming in two years worth of rain and resevoir water is not wise when radioactive particles have been found here in car air filters and local milk, tied directly to Japan. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: Charley Noble Date: 29 May 12 - 08:41 AM bobad- The report of radioactively contaminated bluefin tuna off California should have been anticipated, given their diet and their migration pattern. I suppose on the bright side, scientists will be able to map the migration patterns of their favorite fish more accurately because of this nuclear disaster. gnu- No, I'd rather not hear more bad news about the nuclear complex at Point Le Preau, New Brunswick. As I recall, these CAN-DU plants are designed to be refueled without even shutting them down. It's no wonder they cough up some radioactive gunk or gas every once in a while. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011 From: bobad Date: 29 May 12 - 06:28 AM Radioactive bluefin tuna from Japan found in U.S. waters For the first time, scientists have discovered that tuna contaminated by last year's radiation leak from the crippled Fukushima nuclear plant have crossed the Pacific Ocean into U.S. waters, according to the Associated Press. Scientists have been startled to discover the radioactive fish some 6,000 miles from their place of origin, the first time that large, migrating fish have been shown to carry contaminants over such a great distance. Normally, radiation and other contaminants are found in smaller fish and plankton, and only in waters close to the source of contamination. However, levels of radioactive cesium have been found at ten times the normal levels in fish off of the coast of California. The current levels, say officials, are still below the levels considered unsafe by the U.S. and Japanese governments. In March of 2011, a massive earthquake and devastating tsunami struck northeastern Japan, killing thousands and reducing entire towns to mud and rubble. The Fukushima nuclear plant was caught unprepared for the disaster, and subsequently multiple reactors at the plant melted down, spewing radioactive materials into the air and water and triggering mass evacuations. Bluefin tuna are large, fast-swimming fish, growing up to ten feet in length and weighing up to half a ton. The fish swim at "breakneck" speeds and cross the oceans to feed and mate. Scientists tested tuna from other regions to discover if the cesium-134 and cesium-137 found in the fish might have come from somewhere else, or if the fish had ingested plankton from water affected by the radiation leak. Ken Woeller of the Woods Hole National Oceanographic Institute is an outside researcher who was consulted by the investigation. He said the results "are unequivocal. Fukushima was the source." The Raw Story |
