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BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
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Subject: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: ollaimh Date: 08 Jan 12 - 07:34 PM they found a corpse of a seventeen year old woman on the queen's estate at sandringham. are the royal family shooting peasants again? i thought they promised to stop that with the magna carta |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Ebbie Date: 08 Jan 12 - 07:38 PM Wow. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Big Al Whittle Date: 08 Jan 12 - 07:49 PM I think edward did it. He looks shifty. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Noreen Date: 08 Jan 12 - 07:51 PM BBC: Sandringham Estate body named as Alisa Dmitrijeva |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Bobert Date: 08 Jan 12 - 07:51 PM Liz did it!!! B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Ebbie Date: 08 Jan 12 - 08:02 PM It is possibly a difference between UK and US sensitivities- I wouldn't like to think it is a premeditated slur. In the US when someone is found dead - through unknown means and at unknown hands - we tend to call it a 'body' rather than a 'corpse.' |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Bobert Date: 08 Jan 12 - 08:05 PM No matter, Eb... Lizzie did it... B;~) |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: gnu Date: 08 Jan 12 - 08:38 PM Either way, Ebbie, Lizbet is a suspect. "Pheasants, peasants? They were on my grounds and therefore my property. What's for supper, Albert?" |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: kendall Date: 08 Jan 12 - 08:49 PM I really don't approve of such disrespect for the Queen. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Bobert Date: 08 Jan 12 - 08:57 PM Jacqui make you say that, Capt'n??? B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Don Firth Date: 08 Jan 12 - 09:28 PM Well--it IS kind of tacky, isn't it? Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Bev and Jerry Date: 08 Jan 12 - 09:34 PM Are teenagers in season now? Bev and Jerry |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: kendall Date: 08 Jan 12 - 10:29 PM I have great respect for the Brits, so let's not act like colonials, ok? |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Joe Offer Date: 08 Jan 12 - 10:29 PM Hmmmm. Ebbie, I've never thought of the term "corpse" as indicating wrongdoing. I thought the word was interchangeable with "dead body." -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Ebbie Date: 08 Jan 12 - 10:57 PM In the US when someone is found dead - through unknown means and at unknown hands - we tend to call it a 'body' rather than a 'corpse.' Eb Is this sentence what you are interpreting as "indicating wrongdoing", Joe? I guess it isn't clear that I was not speaking of wrongdoing, only that corpse, to me, is a much more disconnected, objective reactive word than is body. "I lurched blindly through the black, moonless night, the heavy snow obscuring every landmark, every street sign, every curbside rise. The fresh snow piled steadily, silently, inexorably onto the usual wintertime accumulations so common in Alaska. I wasn't thinking. I was not capable of thinking. Somewhere the phrase repeated: he is gone. he is gone. he is gone... And then I stumbled and nearly fell. For a moment the thought flashed through my mind that I had tripped over a log. It was not a log. It was his corpse." And then I stumbled and nearly fell. For a moment the thought flashed through my mind that I had tripped over a log. It was not a log. It was his body." capiche? |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Bert Date: 08 Jan 12 - 11:38 PM Where is Ted Kennedy when you need him?? |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Big Al Whittle Date: 08 Jan 12 - 11:50 PM Kendall, thankyou for that respect. I do appreciate it. But what you must understand is that, once we're sure we're not involved - we Brits do enjoy a good murder, i could refer you to George Orwell's wonderful essay about the classic English murder, but hey! What more do you want - the Queen, her family as suspects - choose your favourite Inspector - Morse, Frost, Lynley - as far as I know no one has written anything about the current royal family. We're still getting round to being outraged about the suggestion that Queen Victoria was jack the Ripper. Great sensual pleasure - enjoy! |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Joe Offer Date: 09 Jan 12 - 12:53 AM Well, Ebbie, with "body," you don't know if it's dead or not. "Corpse" is a body that's dead. That's the difference. 'Course, mebbe they talk different up there where they can see Russia from their front porch.... -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Ebbie Date: 09 Jan 12 - 01:53 AM Not my front porch, Joe- only from my back porch. I almost turned down this house for that. Maybe I think of corpse more as being on the autopsy table. You may be right, though- in my little vignette I don't say whether "he" is dead. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Gurney Date: 09 Jan 12 - 02:35 AM I've always thought of a corpse only as a defunct human. 'Body' has several meanings, animal, vegetable, and mineral. Including corps, a body of soldiers. Maybe not vegetable. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 09 Jan 12 - 02:42 AM This is about the death of a girl of 17, murdered far from her homeland. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: MGM·Lion Date: 09 Jan 12 - 03:28 AM Indeed, Keith. Apart from the disrespect to HM Queen, which I agree with the above description of as 'tacky', and would add 'facile' ~~ what about the disrespect to the unfortunate victim? I cannot but deplore a certain tasteless & mannerless insensitivity in some of the posts above ~Michael~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Big Al Whittle Date: 09 Jan 12 - 04:41 AM 'tasteless & mannerless insensitivity' and you've never even seen my act! |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: peregrina Date: 09 Jan 12 - 05:05 AM A few years ago a young woman disappeared without a trace in the city where I live; she is now presumed dead. The case was constantly in the local news and every cab driver seemed to know someone who knew the individual, or to have a theory about what happened. Now the story is covered again whenever there is a new lead. Although I did not know the individual, it gives a different perspective when such things happen nearby or areas one knows are combed for evidence. Every 'corpse' was the body of someone who was loved by family and friends; the tabloid press's gruesome paper-peddling mystery is a tragedy and endless grief to those who knew the victim. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Arthur_itus Date: 09 Jan 12 - 05:22 AM Just read this thread. Bit tatseless as it concerns a 17 year old girl, who has been missing for some time and the unbearable strain on her family. My duaghter is 16 and a half and things like this, make us unfortunatley worried for our own kids. Latest news. Sandringham Estate body named as Alisa Dmitrijeva Alisa was last seen in Norfolk in August Detectives investigating the murder of a young woman found on the Queen's Sandringham Estate have named the victim as 17-year-old Alisa Dmitrijeva. Her body was found by a dog walker in woodland at Anmer, near King's Lynn, on New Year's Day. Latvian-born Miss Dmitrijeva was identified by comparing detail from her palm with records held. Miss Dmitrijeva, from Wisbech in Cambridgeshire, was last seen in Friars Street, King's Lynn, on 31 August. In a press statement, Miss Dmitrijeva's family said they were "devastated" by news of her death. Forensics experts had struggled to identify the body. Attempts to get a useable DNA profile for Miss Dmitrijeva from tooth and muscle samples were inconclusive. The teenager was finally identified by comparing details from her palm with records held, which were further verified by DNA from her thigh bone. A £5,000 reward was offered for information about Miss Dmitrijeva's whereabouts in December, just over three months after she went missing. A Facebook advert, translated into Lithuanian and Latvian, was also used to try to trace the missing teenager. Miss Dmitrijeva's remains were found on the Queen's Sandringham estate by a dog walker Det Ch Insp Jes Fry, head of the Joint Norfolk and Suffolk major investigation team, said detectives would be working with officers from Cambridgeshire who had been trying to find Miss Dmitrijeva as a missing person. The site where Miss Dmitrijeva's body was found is used regularly for pheasant and partridge shoots, often attended by members of the royal household. Police have spoken to the Sandringham gamekeeper, estate manager and beaters for potential leads. Officers want to speak to anyone who may have been in the area between the end of August and the end of September. "I should add we are still trying to establish any activity which took place on or around the site during the time frame of the end of August to the end of September 2011," Mr Fry said. "We would like to identify people who may have worked in that area or were involved in organising or running any specific events that may have taken place." Police said it was "highly unlikely" Miss Dmitrijeva had died through natural causes. There was no evidence of accidental injury, damage due to firearms or a bladed weapon, they said. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Backwoodsman Date: 09 Jan 12 - 06:54 AM "It is possibly a difference between UK and US sensitivities- I wouldn't like to think it is a premeditated slur. In the US when someone is found dead - through unknown means and at unknown hands - we tend to call it a 'body' rather than a 'corpse.' " On a point of order, Ebbie, I think that Olive is irish (or of Irish descent) and possibly resident in Canada, and therefore probably not subject to 'UK sensitivities'. And, like you, we in the UK tend to refer to a 'body', rather than a 'corpse', in circumstances such as these. And finally yes, some of the comments above are insensitive and tasteless to say the least. I don't care what others think of, or say about, Her Majesty, and I very much doubt if she cares either, but the death of anyone, let alone a young and vulnerable girl, in what appear to be tragic circumstances is not, IMHO, a cause for frivolity or jollification. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Backwoodsman Date: 09 Jan 12 - 07:49 AM "And, like you, we in the UK tend to refer to a 'body', rather than a 'corpse', in circumstances such as these" We also use the term 'human remains', esp. where the person appears to have been dead for some time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: The Sandman Date: 09 Jan 12 - 08:36 AM "But what you must understand is that, once we're sure we're not involved - we Brits do enjoy a good murder," not if your name is Ian Bailey, his life has been ruined.the irish DPP, DECIDED THERE WAS INSUFFICENT EVIENCE TO PROSECUTE .we have a sytem called innocent until proved guilty, the french have a system guilty until proved innocent Bailey is wanted in France in connection with the death of French filmmaker Sophie Toscan du Plantier in Cork 14 years ago. His lawyers had argued that the High Court decision to extradite him raised questions of exceptional public importance and set a precedent which could affect every Irish citizen. A formal order for the detention and surrender of Mr Bailey was made at the High Court this morning. However the order has been put on hold pending the outcome of the Supreme Court appeal, which must be lodged by Friday next. Mr Justice Michael Peart agreed that one of three questions raised during Mr Bailey's appeal application was of exceptional public importance. The judge said the question related to France seeking to exercise extra territorial jurisdiction where the offence has been committed here and in circumstances where the Director of Public Prosecutions had decided not to prosecute. At a previous hearing, Mr Bailey's lawyers said the decision to extradite him was unprecedented and should be considered by the Supreme Court. They said the multi-judge Supreme Court should be given an opportunity to consider it as the law in the area was not settled. Mr Bailey's application for an appeal was based on the interpretation of parts of the European Arrest Warrant Act 2003 and the Criminal Justice (Terrorist Offences) Act of 2005. Senior Counsel Martin Giblin said every Irish citizen was affected by the decision. Mr Giblin said Irish people may now be viewing Europe in a very different light and could be unaware of the provisions of European Arrest Warrant Act. On the current interpretation by the High Court, he said any Irish citizen involved in a traffic accident with a French tourist could be 'shipped off' to France for prosecution if the DPP here decides not to prosecute. 'Every citizen is in the firing line,' he said. He said the Irish State's obligation to surrender citizens under European agreements had to compete with the rights of a person and in many cases the rights of the person could superseded the international obligation. Counsel for the State Robert Barron said the application by Mr Bailey did not raise points of exceptional public importance but applied only to the facts of this case. He said the same set of circumstances were unlikely, if ever, to arise again. He said the application was an attack on the European Arrest Warrant system and the French republic. Outside the court, Mr Bailey's solicitor Frank Buttimer claimed the du Plantier family are misguided in their view his client had anything to do with their daughter's death. 'I'm satisfied he is innocent,' said Mr Buttimer. 'I have looked at this case from every particular point of view that I can. 'I believe, and I've said it publicly, he's been targeted, he's been selected and he continues to be selected as the person who committed the crime which he did not. 'He has had an extremely difficult life since this crime and since he's been associated with it. 'He has had to tolerate this situation for all those years.' |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: kendall Date: 09 Jan 12 - 08:50 AM If she had been found in an alley in Brixton it would hardly be news. Corpse is the same as body. Corpus delecti (Body of the crime, not the dead body). Inspector Morse |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Spleen Cringe Date: 09 Jan 12 - 11:26 AM "If she had been found in an alley in Brixton it would hardly be news." Actually, if a 17 year old girl was found dead in an alley in Brixton it would make the news. I agree with those posters who note that a lot of the comments on this thread are in poor taste. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Big Al Whittle Date: 09 Jan 12 - 12:02 PM 'Officers want to speak to anyone who may have been in the area between the end of August and the end of September.' Pull the lot in, I say.......A dawn raid before they've had a chance to get out of their tiaras....! |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: JohnInKansas Date: 09 Jan 12 - 01:08 PM I'm a bit surprised that this thread wasn't started until a day ago, since the discovery of the body was in US news reports several days ago. Identification of the girl just appeared yesterday, as also reported above, at MSNBC (Associated Press report). Unfortunately, I didn't save the earlier reports or links to them; but from my recollection they must have been quite different from what was being reported elsewhere, as the reports I saw quite carefully described the large size of the estate, the infrequency of royal visits, and emphasised that no members of the "establishment" might be in any way associated with the discovered person. The latest announcement here does change from "on queen's estate" to "near queen's estate" for the headline, but remains the same in the text of the report. Perhaps that reflects an awareness of how the discovery was being reported in more inflamatory terms elsewhere.(?) (AP link that appeared at MSNBC yesterday: Police identify body found near Queen's estate) John |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 09 Jan 12 - 01:17 PM it's not amusing at all, a young woman is dead, probably murdered. The Queen and her family are doubtless just as appalled as the rest of us (with the exception of the heartless and tasteless people who think it's funny on this thread) If it were a member of your family (God forbid) who had been dumped like that, would you be making cheap quips? Thought not. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: gnu Date: 09 Jan 12 - 02:26 PM I have great respect for the Brits AND The Royals, but I have a greater respect for humour. And, I am a "colonial."... unless that was a joke, k? As for offending the sensibilities of people who think making jokes about such serious a matter as the suspected murder of a young girl, I musta missed those. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Bert Date: 09 Jan 12 - 06:56 PM ... Actually, if a 17 year old girl was found dead in an alley in Brixton it would make the news... But it wouldn't make Mudcat. Yes, some of the posts were insensitive, including mine above. But I had assumed that the whole purpose of the thread was the association with Royalty was to be commented upon. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: gnu Date: 09 Jan 12 - 07:57 PM Me too, Bert. As for Beth, I am sure she laughed at my post. She reads Mudcat regulary I am sure but, of course, only posts here under a guest name as she doesn't want to offend any of her friends by being seen consorting with commoners... especially colonial commoners. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: kendall Date: 09 Jan 12 - 08:58 PM Maybe I'm being overly sensitive, but I see the Queen as the focal point of the British people. She represents the people of Britain; she's not just another well born person. I'm not as fond of some of her relatives, but hell, I'm not fond of some of MY relatives. When you knock the Queen, you knock Britain, in my opinion. \ The Irish have reason to disagree with me, I know. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Big Al Whittle Date: 09 Jan 12 - 09:55 PM Kendall - i like you mate. I've seen you do your stuff on Youtube. However - let me warn you. The English folk people have got being po-faced and exhibiting no sense of humour down to a fine art. They try and use this to discomfort everyone. Its a sort of intelligence slowed down to an acceptable rate for practicing bores. like when your teacher used to say - no running in the corridor - even when the corridor was empty. most of us don't give a monkey's bum about the Queen, or her strange family. You Americans show us an inordinate ammount of respect. I remember when Sheila Ferguson of the Three Degrees was invited for supper with Prince Charles. She said afterwards that he insisted on being called Sir throughout the evening. And bloody hell! She complied! In short, the Royals are an absurdity. The real comparison should be - what if a 17 year old girl was found murdered in my back garden. I'd be seing mailbags by now. All these daft bumholes are showing the royal family quite unwarranted reverence. Its a bit like the body in the library. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: JohnInKansas Date: 10 Jan 12 - 01:51 AM Its a bit like the body in the library. Not at all alike. In that case the butler did it. ...unless she was having something on with the gardener ... ... or these times, he was having something on with the driver. ... ... ... or ...(?) In the US, in novels (and to some extent in movies, etc) about "British crime" the "serving persons" always seem to play principal parts, probably because it makes the criminal potentials somehow "more exotic" and more unlike our ordinary domestic crime. Almost no one in the US has "serving persons" to be involved ... ... ... here they're mostly called "body guards" I suppose. (Jobs to fit the business one's in?) John |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: MGM·Lion Date: 10 Jan 12 - 02:28 AM JiK: Not many people here have 'serving persons' in that sense either. In the days when our upper & upper-middle classes did, so did your wealthy families, on the evidence of literature, films, &c, set around such a milieu; from Theodore Dreiser's An American Tragedy to Deanna Durbin in His Butler's Sister. And, literarily, they were occasionally responsible for bodies in libraries likewise. ~M~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 10 Jan 12 - 02:50 AM I posted because I found it distasteful to joke about the death, not the Queen. Big Al, many certainly agree with you, but are you sure it is most, as in "most of us don't give a monkey's bum about the Queen" ? Consider the crowds who waited outside the Sandringham chapel from before dawn on Christmas morning, or for the wedding, or awaiting news of Philip's illness, or for Queen Mother's funeral, .... |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Richard Bridge Date: 10 Jan 12 - 03:45 AM I would have thought that those who show that degree of devoted sycophancy are very much in the minority. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 10 Jan 12 - 03:57 AM So would I, but they are indicative. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: MGM·Lion Date: 10 Jan 12 - 04:11 AM Actually, some statistics would be interesting and presumably not too difficult to establish. What proportion of the population in fact turn out to line the route for a royal procession or to catch a glimpse of royalty on some occasion? How do tv viewing figures for royal occasions compare with those for, e.g., the World Cup Final? I agree that it is unlikely that these figures would reveal a 'majority' of the population in the entirely literal sense; but would surely be most significant numbers nevertheless, not at all deserving of locutions like Al's "most of us don't give a monkey's bum"; quite a few would be shown to give a monkey's bum, I would estimate: full as many, I would venture, as feel strongly enough to find it necessary to express their uninterest in such discourteously hyperbolical terms. ~M~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Will Fly Date: 10 Jan 12 - 04:12 AM Interesting to compare the sentiments on this thread with one currently above the line: Senseless killing of NH singer. Lots of sympathy and compassion for one murdered person - not much, it seems, for another. One touches our souls, the other appears not to. So - my sincerest sympathies to the relatives of Alisa Dmitrijeva in Wisbech for their sad loss. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: peregrina Date: 10 Jan 12 - 04:24 AM Yes, thanks for that Will Fly. Respect for every human life. Lots of problems in the world would not exist if each person's web of respect and compassion stretched far enough to allow them to imagine the circumstances of distant individuals, of other species, even of the planet, more vividly and with some empathy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: GUEST,Allan Conn Date: 10 Jan 12 - 04:36 AM "When you knock the Queen, you knock Britain, in my opinion." Not everyone feels like that though. I don't think most British people would take real offence if foreigners criticsed the Queen or the monarchy in general. Real avid monarchists or real avid republicans are probably in the minority. Most people seem to not care too much either way but are happy to take things as they are because it has always been so and seems to work to some extent despite it being archaic etc. Yes there is a soap opera style interest by many, especially females, in what clothes are being worn etc - but it is hardly serious stuff. I don't think many people would get too bothered about the PM being criticised either. Saying that maybe that is because I'm in Scotland where royal street parties etc are basically a thing of the past. I was down south when Diana died and found the atmosphere weird to say the least but I kind of felt that had more to do with the cult of celebrity than the royal institution itself. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Joe Offer Date: 10 Jan 12 - 04:55 AM Well, Will and peregrina, I think there's a difference. There's a connection with the New Hampshire singer, especially for those of us who are singers and those who have visited New Hampshire or know Allison (Animaterra), who apparently knew the singer and reported the death. Most of us have no connection with the body found on the Queen's estate. It's just a news item. Millions of people die every day, and most of us aren't able to conjure up enough sincere sympathy to be concerned about every one. Human nature guides us to be sympathetic to those we know, those we feel a connection to. Most of us just can't be sincerely sympathetic toward every dead body that turns up, anywhere in the world. And I gotta say, I question the sincerity of those who ooze with sympathy for total strangers. When I'm dead, I don't care to have any strangers grieving for me. Let them go on with their lives and grieve for the loss of the people they really love. Sorry, but that's the way it is. I intend no disrespect; but to me, Alisa Dmitrijeva is just a news item and a name I can't pronounce. I hope that she has family and friends who will grieve her loss - that's the grieving that makes a difference. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Big Al Whittle Date: 10 Jan 12 - 05:28 AM of course it very sad - a seventeen year old child dying - in such sordid circumstances as well. The point is though, here is a new one for the for the royal family. This will have the conspiracy theorists in a tizz for ever. Like Jack the Ripper and the death of Princess Di. On the pheasant shoot as well - even Inspector Lynley might be too downmarket for this one. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: GUEST,Peter Laban Date: 10 Jan 12 - 05:38 AM The Irish have reason to disagree with me, I know. Not been keeping up with things have you? Watch this then.. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Will Fly Date: 10 Jan 12 - 05:48 AM Of course there's a difference, Joe - and I'm perfectly aware of it. I just thought the thread was verging on the callous. Who gives a toss about so-called Royal connections or any stupidity supposedly connected with it or them. Bunkum. If Dmitrijeva is a name you can't pronounce, then try: Duh-Mee-Tree-YEva. Not too hard after all. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 10 Jan 12 - 05:53 AM You might feel more empathy Joe if you had seen her face smiling out of her picture on every news report, as we have over here. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: maeve Date: 10 Jan 12 - 06:31 AM Some thoughts on empathy: "If we are to love our neighbors, before doing anything else we must see our neighbors. With our imagination as well as our eyes, that is to say like artists, we must see not just their faces but the life behind and within their faces. Here it is love that is the frame we see them in." ― Frederick Buechner, Whistling in the Dark: A Doubter's Dictionary "Anyone who has experienced a certain amount of loss in their life has empathy for those who have experienced loss." Anderson Cooper "The discoveries of how we can grow and the insights we need to have really come from the inside out. To have genuine empathy, not as a make-nice tool but as an understanding, is essential to the next step." Patricia Sun "Self-absorption in all its forms kills empathy, let alone compassion. When we focus on ourselves, our world contracts as our problems and preoccupations loom large. But when we focus on others, our world expands. Our own problems drift to the periphery of the mind and so seem smaller, and we increase our capacity for connection - or compassionate action." ― Daniel Goleman, Social Intelligence: The New Science of Human Relationships |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: GUEST,Allan Conn Date: 10 Jan 12 - 07:49 AM "Lots of problems in the world would not exist if each person's web of respect and compassion stretched far enough to allow them to imagine the circumstances of distant individuals, of other species, even of the planet, more vividly and with some empathy." That is absolutely right. Bad taste is bad taste end of story. having a private joke may be fair enough but when you put something on a public forum you should be aware that it may offend. Likewise in the media now some appear totally unaware of how cruel they are being and beleive it is those who would take offence that are to blame http://news.stv.tv/scotland/highlands-islands/285752-matthew-wright-sparks-outrage-over-lewis-murder-comments/ |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: theleveller Date: 10 Jan 12 - 07:54 AM "Maybe I'm being overly sensitive, but I see the Queen as the focal point of the British people. She represents the people of Britain; she's not just another well born person. I'm not as fond of some of her relatives, but hell, I'm not fond of some of MY relatives. When you knock the Queen, you knock Britain, in my opinion." What rubbish! At best the monarchy is an irrelevance, at worst an expensive and socially divisive anachronism. Don't forget that we have, in the past, nor been averse to cutting of the monarch's head. Anyway, this murder has nothing to do with the monarchy except for the fact that the body was found on a royal estate. It brings to mind the song Poor Murdered Woman. I hope that, unlike the song, the culprit is swiftly brought to justice. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: kendall Date: 10 Jan 12 - 07:54 AM Part of being a Liberal is the ability to accept the differences in other people. I'm glad to be a Liberal. The Queen was in Ireland at the same time I was there. She got all the publicity. :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Spleen Cringe Date: 10 Jan 12 - 08:02 AM Al, my comments were nothing to do with royal family. I don't give a toss about them. I just think it's odd and bit sick that people are joking about some poor kid getting killed, that's all. I think Will expressed what I think better than I did, though. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Charley Noble Date: 10 Jan 12 - 08:12 AM And add my condolences to Alisa Dmitrijeva's family and friends. So, who was the murderer and what was the weapon used? Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: theleveller Date: 10 Jan 12 - 08:19 AM "Part of being a Liberal is the ability to accept the differences in other people." That rules the Windsors out, then. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: kendall Date: 10 Jan 12 - 09:56 AM Thar rules out all conservatives. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 10 Jan 12 - 02:20 PM The latest info I could find is one day old. We don't know that her death was a homicide. It could have been suicide or a drug overdose. Perhaps somebody put her body in the woods because they didn't want to be associated with it. Who? somebody like a drug dealer, a pimp, a back-alley abortionist, an abusive boyfriend, for starters. Poor kid. When I saw some of the offensive remarks above about the death of a 17-year-old, I realized why some of the young put on scary armor - tattoos, piercings, crazy hairdos - to scare people like me away. I was in the railway station in Edmonton a few months ago. Across from me was a teenage girl with all of the above. She glanced across at me with pure loathing in her eyes. She probably thought I'm the kind of person who don't care if teenagers die, but she was wrong. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: gnu Date: 10 Jan 12 - 02:35 PM "I just think it's odd and bit sick that people are joking about some poor kid getting killed, that's all." AGAIN, I missed those jokes. And I have read every post on this thread. All of the jokes I read were about the Royals. Anyone care to point out ONE SINGLE JOKE made about the young girl's death? Go ahead. Do it. Explain it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: MGM·Lion Date: 10 Jan 12 - 02:44 PM gnu ~~ the jokes above about the royals were all predicated on the fact that they must have murdered the unfortunate young woman because her body was found on her land ~~ heeheehee, how very witty!; so that she came, by a sort of synechdoche or association, merely a part of the joke: her corpse was paid no respect in itself, & hence neither was she as a person, but merely used as an occasion for some facetious remarks, in IMO vile taste, about the royals. So the jokes were about her at that: she was an implicit, & most disrespectfully integrated, part of them. Do you really not get this? ~M~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Backwoodsman Date: 10 Jan 12 - 02:56 PM Gnu, the jokes involve the discovery of a (probably murdered) young woman's body on the Sandringham Estate. Whilst the jokes might appear to be aimed at the Royal Family, they are made against the background of the tragic death of a young woman in a country far from her home. They are insensitive and tasteless, and would be just as insensitive and tasteless if the girl had been found on the White House lawn and jokes were being posted about which member of the Obama family did it. The girl was someone's daughter, and is being grieved over by those who loved her. Rather than thinking about tasteless jokes, it would be better if the 'comedians' thought about what she might have gone through leading up to her death. Anyone who doesn't understand that really is a sausage short of a barbecue. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: kendall Date: 10 Jan 12 - 04:00 PM One use for humor is to use it as a shield against a horror. It's like fainting, an escape mechanism. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: gnu Date: 10 Jan 12 - 04:58 PM Sooorry... not a hope that your logic says in ANY way that ANYone made a joke about the poor girl. That's what I asked youse to do. That is ALL I asked youse to do. Youse can't. What don't YOUSE understand about that? AND, inferring some sort of twisted guilt by some illogical association regarding YOUR inferences is extremely disturbing to me. Get thee a rope and hang thyselves yet again. (Ah, I could say it in a much more concise manner but that would simply be played into more wet fodder for your canons.) Twist it, play it, anyway you want it, that's all right with me. Fact is, I will joke about The Royals ANY time I want to do so. NObody can tell me any of the posts to date were making a joke about the (possible) murder of a young girl. When youse say that, youse are the ones who are illogical, incorrect and, simply, rude and arrogant in your attacks on myself and others. The posts stand for themselves. One last time... I have seen NO jokes made about the girl. Neither have you. gnightgnu |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: MGM·Lion Date: 10 Jan 12 - 05:29 PM Oh, for crying out loud, gnu. The girl is the McGuffin. Live with it. Otherwise go away & commune with yourself. I think it's maybe time for a game of, gnu goes away to hide and nobody goes to look for him. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Big Al Whittle Date: 10 Jan 12 - 05:41 PM MGM - how dare you accuse me of perpetrating a synechdoche? What sort of filthy devil do you take me for.......? Sir, you go too far! |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Big Al Whittle Date: 10 Jan 12 - 05:42 PM 22.41pm and still no Dick....... |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: MGM·Lion Date: 10 Jan 12 - 05:44 PM Oh, Al ~~ Grovel grovel grovel :::\\\ I meant, of course, a metonomy... |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 10 Jan 12 - 05:55 PM Hang it up, gnu. None of us are stupid enough to accept your nitpicking argument. If the victim had been a 40-year old male in a business suit, there would have been no jokes at all. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Jack Campin Date: 10 Jan 12 - 05:55 PM This is not the first time in recent years that a young woman from the Baltic has been found murdered in Britain: Jolanta Bledaite There probably isn't a pattern (in that Bledaite's killers were psychos acting in isolation) but people in the UK are likely to react "oh not again" in a way that US bystanders won't. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Big Al Whittle Date: 10 Jan 12 - 06:22 PM 'If the victim had been a 40-year old male in a business suit, there would have been no jokes at all.' found on the Queens pheasant shoot - YOU have to be joking. How to explain Sandringham...... I was taken there as a child to watch the Royal family walk across the park to church. Its like ....the holy of holys for Royal watchers. generations of Royals have lived in Sandringham House, and hunted in the beautiful grounds. To have a murder case plumped in the middle of it, is like drawing a red nose on the unicorn. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: gnu Date: 10 Jan 12 - 09:42 PM Go away? Nitpicking? ME???? Youse still have not addressed my simple question. It's not rocket science. It's simply logic. I asked... youse cannot answer. Just saying I am "wrong" and stunned and "should go away" and that I do not understand is illogical. You have no arguement. I NEVER and NObody ever, on this thread, made any jokes that any of youse accuse of having been made re the deceased. IF you can prove me wrong, do it. (Yes, I repeat myself... dunno why I have to do so????) If you can't, as you have not be able to since I asked you to do same, I believe an apology to myself and others is in order. Seriously, think of what your posts are saying to the world who can read them. Mine was a joke about the Royals. Yours are personal attacks against me and others which are unfounded and unwarrented. BTW... WTF is a "McGuffin"? |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Backwoodsman Date: 11 Jan 12 - 12:18 AM Thanks Gnu, you proved me right, twice. Definitely a sausage short. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Big Al Whittle Date: 11 Jan 12 - 12:21 AM The McGuffin was a term coined by film director Alfred Hitchcock. The McGuffin was what the plot of a film was ostensibly about. Spies after government secrets, a missing diamond, the vital evidence, the search for buried treasure, etc. What the film was really about (in Hitchcock's view) were the characters and atmosphere that the actors and directors, lighting people, script writers, music composers, etc. could create. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Backwoodsman Date: 11 Jan 12 - 12:26 AM Oh, BTW, here's your answer (if you have the wit and sensitivity to understand it which, on the evidence of the posts you've made on here, I strongly doubt) - McGuffin |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: MGM·Lion Date: 11 Jan 12 - 12:27 AM The McGuffin was Alfred Hitchcock's coinage: Chambers Dictionary ~ "the element of a film, book, &c, that drives or provides the excuse for the action". Online Urban Dict: "a plot device that has no specific meaning or purpose other than to advance the story; any situation that motivates the action of a film either artificially or substantively". |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Backwoodsman Date: 11 Jan 12 - 12:27 AM Can't you sleep either, Al? :-) Is it dark down in Dorset? |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Backwoodsman Date: 11 Jan 12 - 12:31 AM Mike...another insomniac! Mornin' buddy! |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: gnu Date: 11 Jan 12 - 02:29 PM Backwoodsman... another personal attack?... and you still have no answer to my question because there isn't one? Shove your sausage up your ass. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 11 Jan 12 - 03:08 PM Gnu, you know and I know that taking advantage of Alisa's death to make silly, carping remarks about the royal family is tasteless and callow. Some people have obviously seen too many fake deaths on TV and movies and fail to grasp reality. We know that such callowness is common on the Internet, but real catters like you and me are expected to meet a higher standard. Backwoodsman, you go too far. Gnu isn't acting crazy, he's merely being a little too legal minded. Could happen to anybody. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: gnu Date: 11 Jan 12 - 03:53 PM To reittttterate... MY point is that I and others were accused of making jokes about THE death. That did not happen. I am NOT arguing about jokes about The Royals being "off". I NEVER have. Indeed, I have stated that I will make jokes about them whenever I want to. If that is a problem with anybody, sue me. Call me tasteless and callow if you want but don't lie and say I am stunned and should go away. Apples and oranges. WHO doesn't get it? Fact is, I, and every reader herein, can see that someone was caught in a lie and hasn't the balls to admit it and apologize when challenged but rather ramps up their own justification for their lie with sillyass personal attacks. I find that far more a transgression than being tasteless and callow... which, once again, I NEVER had an arguement with. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Jack Campin Date: 11 Jan 12 - 06:11 PM I tried to find some recent coverage on this. First thing I came across was the Sun, with an article which was entirely blame-the-victim - "druggie teenage slag was asking for it", in effect. If you thought they learned anything after being caught out phone hacking, think again. They were slime then, they are slime now, they always will be slime. And if some anonymous Canadian thinks his/her precious ego matters more than a young woman being murdered, to the point of being the primary object of discussion - fuck off, gnu. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: gnu Date: 11 Jan 12 - 08:21 PM More of the same. Personal attack... for no reason other than to attempt unjustly justify a false transgression. Fact of the matter is, it is such very posts that do exactly what I have just been falsely accused of doing. Very sad. Anon Canuck? Everyone knows my name and address. My words are in print. You can twist them all you want, but you can only do that with a twisted mind. Have fun with it. Light the torches. Shove em ya bunch a witch hunters. Seriously, do you really think anyone who read this WHOLE thread actually thinks that my arguements are nothing more than defending myself against unfounded accusations? I think those who did read th wholw thread think little of those who twisted my words and put words in my mouth that I did not speak. gnightgnu trolls. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Big Al Whittle Date: 11 Jan 12 - 09:38 PM Gnu may I refer you to my explanation from the first few messages. "The English folk people have got being po-faced and exhibiting no sense of humour down to a fine art." You're a good guy Gnu, don't let this nonsense perturb you. anyone who looks at the thread about Severn's recent illness can see that you're one of the good guys - full of humanity, decency, etc. If some member of folk royalty writes a murder ballad about this incident next week - they'll all be brown-nosing like the world supply of crap is on the edge of extinction. Of course you and me won't be hailed as visionaries. Its called a class system - we aren't of sufficiently high status to be accorded the right to think original thoughts. you have to think the same way as everyone else (in the tradtion) express yourself the same way everyone else does (the tradition strikes again) and most of all - know your place! |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Backwoodsman Date: 11 Jan 12 - 11:51 PM Ever heard of 'splitting hairs' gnu? It means using false logic to legitimise/validate some spurious argument. You've been splitting hairs all over this thread. And if "Shove your sausage up your ass" isn't a personal attack, I don't know what is. It also indicates your inability to carry on a rational and civilised discussion. Now, since you've brought our conversation down to personal insults, here's one for you (or perhaps, in that strange gnu-speak language you employ, I should say "youse", whatever the fuck "youse" means)....FOXTROT ROMEO OSCAR. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: MGM·Lion Date: 11 Jan 12 - 11:51 PM gnu ~ I don't know your name & address. So may I have them please? By PM or on here. No special reason, but you say everyone knows them so I feel a bit left out. Anyhow one of the troubles with the nickname system also is that, even after my 2½ yrs on the Cat, there are still lots of members who get knowingly ref'd on threads, leaving me mystified & at a disadvantage; e.g. Suibhne [I do know who he] mentioned yesterday that he likes my singing & also Shimrod's; & as I don't know who the hell Shimrod is I have no way of listening to him sing, tho I should obvsly like to after such a recommendatn. So gnu ~~ who you? Best ~Michael Grosvenor Myer~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: MGM·Lion Date: 11 Jan 12 - 11:55 PM ... & who Shimrod, for that matter? |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Backwoodsman Date: 12 Jan 12 - 12:41 AM .....& who any of us who use a handle instead of our real name, for that matter? But strangely, there are people I know from here, but whom I don't know from Adam in the Real World, yet I feel they are my friends. And the converse is true also - How does that work? "Anon Canuck? Everyone knows my name and address." I don't know who you are either, Gnu, I haven't a clue, but I'd like to. I'd love to find out if you really are the twerp you give the impression of being on here. I have a strong suspicion it's all a big act and you're not as stoopid and boorish as you want us all to think you are! :-) :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Ebbie Date: 12 Jan 12 - 01:00 AM you're not as stoopid and boorish as you want us all to think you are! :-) :-) Backwoodsman Well, I do know Gary and "stoopid and boorish" is very far from what he is. It should behoove anyone who uses such terms to describe anyone should first familiarise themselves with the person. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: MGM·Lion Date: 12 Jan 12 - 01:06 AM But that is the point, Ebbie. How are we to do that if, for all his saying, we haven't the remotest idea who he is? So come out, Gary [as I gather from Ebbie's post you are called], & ID yourself, so that we may 'famiiliarise ourselves' with you as Ebbie is privileged to be able to do. ~Michael~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Joe Offer Date: 12 Jan 12 - 01:17 AM Al & Mike, thanks for the definition of "McGuffin." It's amazing, the things you learn at Mudcat. I like Hitchcock but have seen only his major films. Looks like I'll have to look into him more deeply. But Hitchcock seems very appropriate in this case. There is a touch of graveyard humor to the story, and Hitchcock often was very humorous in his stories. And yes, it's a darn good mystery. I suppose many thought Hitchcock irreverent, but I've loved every Hitchcock movie I've seen. This story would make a perfect Hitchcock movie plot. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Backwoodsman Date: 12 Jan 12 - 02:44 AM Ebbie, I couldn't agree more with what you say but, sadly, Gnu's posts give the impression of someone stoopid and boorish, who pursues a apecious argument using highly-suspect logic, and indulges themselves in ranting, aggressive posts. And impressions are all we have to judge anyone by on here. I'm sorry if I misjudged Gnu, but I don't have the benefit of knowing him personally the way you do, and his posts, and the impressions they create, are his responsibility, not mine. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Backwoodsman Date: 12 Jan 12 - 02:45 AM apecious??????? WTF?? specious! |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 12 Jan 12 - 02:58 AM I often wish I had not been so open with my ID. Some nasty people read our stuff sometimes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 12 Jan 12 - 03:09 AM Specifically, I have had a fake Facebook account, had my adress and phone number posted here, information about my daughter and filthy lies about my step-daughter. Only supply your info. by pm. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Backwoodsman Date: 12 Jan 12 - 03:34 AM Oh, and BTW Ebbie, if you want to quote me, no problem - knock yourself out - but please use the quote in full and in context. What I said was:- "I don't know who you are either, Gnu, I haven't a clue, but I'd like to. I'd love to find out if you really are the twerp you give the impression of being on here. I have a strong suspicion it's all a big act and you're not as stoopid and boorish as you want us all to think you are! :-) :-)" Now I believe that the whole quote indicates that I was trying to be conciliatory and lighthearted, and I believe that anyone who isn't personally acquainted with Gnu and/or taking his side in the argument can see that too, whereas your isolation of the 'stoopid and boorish' bit was nothing more than an attempt to 'stand up for' Gnu and somehow make me the villain. I thought better of you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Big Al Whittle Date: 12 Jan 12 - 05:11 AM I'm sure no one calls you a villain Strolling John. Or perhaps you should work on the villain thing, and becaome a legend - like Jesse James. Strolling Johnny was villain A folksinging man, who lived near Lincoln town. They quaked in fear - near and far When he strapped on his guitar And put on his trousers of brown. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Richard Bridge Date: 12 Jan 12 - 06:07 AM 100 |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: GUEST,Bluesman Date: 12 Jan 12 - 06:40 AM Thoughts are with her family, God help them, she was a child. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Backwoodsman Date: 12 Jan 12 - 07:17 AM "Or perhaps you should work on the villain thing, and becaome a legend - like Jesse James." LOL Al! Come on, you know me - I'm just a big softie, I could never be like JJ! :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: GUEST,Patsy Date: 12 Jan 12 - 07:32 AM It is sad that a 17 year old should come to harm alone so far away from her family, her life should be just beginning. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: kendall Date: 12 Jan 12 - 08:19 AM No wonder so many people believe in an after life. They have to to deal with this kind of evil. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Richard Bridge Date: 12 Jan 12 - 08:37 AM A rambler named Dmitrijeva Paused, for a rest from her labour. Along a Prince came, Who said "Are you game?" "YES!". So both barrels he gave her. In the best traditions of "The Setting of the Sun". But it isn't a joke about her. It's a joke about people who only shoot game. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Big Al Whittle Date: 12 Jan 12 - 09:07 AM remind me again Richard.......are you playing for us, or the opposition this week? |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Richard Bridge Date: 12 Jan 12 - 09:24 AM It depends who's opposing what. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Big Al Whittle Date: 12 Jan 12 - 11:07 AM Your words would go to William Tell overture. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Rusty Dobro Date: 12 Jan 12 - 11:17 AM Last week I went to the funeral of a friend's young daughter who was murdered. Pleased to report no-one there was making jokes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Max Johnson Date: 12 Jan 12 - 12:57 PM I usually stay clear of threads such as this, but I feel obliged to say that the fact that anyone would make jokes about the very recent murder of a 17 year-old girl simply beggars belief. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: kendall Date: 12 Jan 12 - 01:30 PM Think this one over. True story. It had been a long cold, snowy winter. In the spring my Father died. After the service we were all standing around in the yard by the funeral home, (All but Dad), and suddenly, it started to snow. I made an offhand comment, "God, I hope that's dandruff." No one was horrified, they welcomed it as a relief from the tension. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Raptor Date: 12 Jan 12 - 01:50 PM You need to laugh or you'll cry. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: MGM·Lion Date: 12 Jan 12 - 01:56 PM Why so, Raptor? There are times to laugh and times to cry. I am sorry for people who cannot recognise which is which. ~M~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 12 Jan 12 - 01:57 PM I agree, kendall, sometimes a little joke can ease the tension. But you weren't joking in any way about the passing of your father were you? And if anyone had done such a thing, you'd have been horrified and very distressed. I just think the flippant remarks and quips about the finding of this poor girl (and it would be the same if it were an old man) a sad indication of the insensitivity of some people. Where is respect? |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Backwoodsman Date: 12 Jan 12 - 01:59 PM Fine, Kendall, but the circumstances were significantly different to the ones here - in your case it was a private moment, you all knew the deceased who had died a 'natural' death I guess, presumably everyone was very emotional, and a little wry, personal lightheartedness helped you all to get through a bad moment. Been there myself. No problem. In the case here, it's about a young vulnerable girl, little more than a child, living in a foreign land, who had been brutally murdered and suffered God knows what at the hands of her abuser(s) in the period leading up to her death, and the "jokes" were made on a public forum where others were expressing horror and condolences. Whether they were directed at the girl or the Royal Family matters not one jot - they were inappropriate in the circumstances. There's a short phrase in the English language that some of us still value - "Common decency" - which means "behaving respectfully" at times such as these. Others can think of me in whatever way they like, I don't give a toss, but I don't, and won't, apologise to anyone for my belief in those two words. Nothing personal intended there, Kendall, you and I know one another and we both have our own strong feelings and beliefs, and we sometimes need to express them in our own way. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Mavis Enderby Date: 12 Jan 12 - 02:11 PM From Joe Offer: Sorry, but that's the way it is. I intend no disrespect; but to me, Alisa Dmitrijeva is just a news item and a name I can't pronounce. I hope that she has family and friends who will grieve her loss - that's the grieving that makes a difference. Bearing in mind it's highly likely that friends and family will stumble over this thread eventually, how do you feel about some of the comments written above? Personally I find this one of the most disturbing threads I've read here. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: gnu Date: 12 Jan 12 - 03:27 PM "You've been splitting hairs all over this thread." Not even once. On the contrary, YOU have been manufacturing false hairs. "And if "Shove your sausage up your ass" isn't a personal attack, I don't know what is." It's not. Get some logic. Calling people names and saying the are "short of a sausage... twerp... stoopid and boorish... " certainly is. And, BTW, I was told to fuck off. By your logic, youse are guilty... in print. "Now, since you've brought our conversation down to personal insults,..." I never did... you did... everyone who has read this thread knows it. Time for you to stop posting inane lies. "who pursues a apecious argument using highly-suspect logic" Can't you READ? My question, which NObody has answered because NObody can find evidence to prove what I and others were accused of, is NOT rocket science. It's a simple question... and you cannot offer any evidence to refute my statements because none exists. If it did, I would apologize. Unlike some posters. And, as far as twisting your OWN words to insinuate that Ebbie is incorrect in any way in her posts... are you fucking serious?! Do you NOT realize how that makes you look the the readers? Own up to what ya post if got any balls. I think I have made my points sufficiently... and youse certainly have... yet again. Why you continue to make asses of yourselves is beyond me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: gnu Date: 12 Jan 12 - 03:50 PM Right... I simply have to respond in public to the latest PM, to wit, here is my response to that PM... Certainly not out of character for me. When I am accused of doing something I did not do, I stand up for myself... and for others who are falsely accused. I have done this many times at Mudcat and I shall continue to do so. I will not have my character FALSELY attacked. Especially by anyone who cannot simply apologize for that false attack. My character was correctly attacked on an entirely different point and I have answered that attack. I have no problems with the truth. I have problems with lies, people twisting words, and people putting words in my mouth that I did not utter. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: kendall Date: 12 Jan 12 - 04:28 PM Backwoodsman, I know the two situations are totally different. My point is,some people tend to handle sad news by not handling them at all. I've never learned to deal with grief. The thought of my old dog under three feet of dirt and two feet of snow still gets to me. In this case, humor fails me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Richard Bridge Date: 12 Jan 12 - 05:31 PM I think there is a very unenglish lack of phlegm about some of this. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: katlaughing Date: 12 Jan 12 - 05:40 PM Mudcat just keeps scraping the bottom of the barrel; just when I think it can't get any worse, some other new thread gets started, grabbing "news entertainment" from FOX-like sources or not, but still starting the ball rolling down the gutter until it gets into a he-said-I-said-she said pissing match. I feel sorry for the girl's family and for her life ending at such a young age. Like JohninKansas, I read early reports which noted the vast size of the estate and the lack of anything to infer the royal family had anything to do with it. In my moderator's opinion, this thread has devolved into nothing more than the usual and is ready for closure. I won't until I ask a couple of other mods to check it out. In the meantime, I leave you with these: Winston Churchill "So many gods, so many creeds, So many paths that wind and wind, While just the art of being kind Is all the sad world needs." -Ella Wheeler Wilcox (1850-1919); American author, poet And, here are more to contemplate: FocusOnKindness. katsad, mod |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: GUEST Date: 12 Jan 12 - 06:11 PM Elza, I'm entirely behind you on this one. I, too, often ask myself, in my own neck of the woods (so far from the UK):Whither respect? Quite plainly, it has all but vanished from the face of the earth. GUEST, please remember to post using a consistent "Guest, Name" otherwise you risk having your postings in the BS section deleted. Thanks, a mod. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Richard Bridge Date: 12 Jan 12 - 06:45 PM "Catholic adage, dic nihil nisi bonum de mortuis ( of the dead speak kindly or not at all)" Surely we have grown out of this, haven't we? |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: gnu Date: 12 Jan 12 - 08:06 PM "of the dead speak kindly or not at all" That's the deal, Ricky... NObody spoke ill of the dead. NOOOObody. Not once. NObody made jokes about the girl. Not one. That's why the thread has been tainted. False accusations. And I and others still deserve an apology for that. Was my joke about about Betty tasteless? Yeah, it was. And I thought it was funny or I would not have posted it. I addressed that, more than once. To draw some inane inference that I, or others, were making a joke about the poor girl is unacceptable to me. After being accused falsely and subsequently assailed, I asked a simple question. There have been no answers because it cannot be answered. It did not happen. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Bert Date: 12 Jan 12 - 10:20 PM Right gnu. Now let's get back to being tasteless. I didn't know that Cheney went hunting at Sandringham! |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Backwoodsman Date: 13 Jan 12 - 03:26 AM "Backwoodsman, I know the two situations are totally different. My point is,some people tend to handle sad news by not handling them at all. I've never learned to deal with grief. The thought of my old dog under three feet of dirt and two feet of snow still gets to me. In this case, humor fails me." Understood, Kendall. Good point, well made (didn't expect any less!). |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Big Al Whittle Date: 13 Jan 12 - 06:39 AM Another point - don't use your sensitivity to bully other people, and cause distress to other elderly mudactters. Simple facts of the matter - corpse in my backyard - front page of the Dorset Echo. Third item on the local news. Corpse on the Queen's pheasant shoot - a place in history. Along with the princes in the tower, MI5 plots, etc. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: GUEST,Bluesman Date: 13 Jan 12 - 06:43 AM Good post Kat. None of us can ever understand the pain her family are going through. When she left her native home, think of the hugs and kisses and warning after warning to be careful. I did it with all of my own children as they left to travel abroad. Some posts above are beyond words. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: GUEST,Bluesman Date: 13 Jan 12 - 06:47 AM I haven´t been on recently due to travel, I had heard about this murder through a phone call to home. I have just read all of the posts above, and to be honest, some of them are sick. Richard, like myself you have a daughter. This is not a subject to joke about. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Big Al Whittle Date: 13 Jan 12 - 07:31 AM Yeh and some people wouldn't know sensitivity in their dealings with mankind, even if it bit them on the bollocks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Silas Date: 13 Jan 12 - 07:43 AM I don't find this thread funny in the slightest and I would like you to read the following - it may explain why. I should point out that I operate a weekly 'diary' post to a lot of local folkies just o that everyone knows what is going on locally. Although the following has little to do with folk music, it may just make some people here think a little before making crass and flippant remarks. "Hi Everyone Can I ask that you indulge me for a few minutes and allow me to share with you something that happened to me yesterday at work? I would not normally use this mailing list for any other purpose than to inform about folk music events, but this incident has affected me deeply and I think it important. Yesterday morning I was at work just sorting out my day and checking emails etc when a guy wondered up from the service department and started looking around the cars. I thought I recognised him but couldn't quite place him (a constant problem in retail sales I'm afraid). I went over to ask if he needed any help and as soon as he spoke I knew him to be my Maths teacher from Walton school, Hu Jones, a guy I had not seen for over forty years! Believe it or not he actually remembered me and described a couple of things that I was involved with at school that I had completely forgotten, I was, to tell the truth, quite flattered at the time to think that he would have remembered me after all of these years. We were chatting about the good old days for about ten minutes when he dropped his bombshell. He said that he was not the man he was, he had a life changing experience 3 years ago. I thought he was going to say that he has had a stroke or perhaps lost his wife, I was not at all prepared for what he came out with. His only daughter, Moira was working in Glasgow, she was something of a 'high flyer' with an international company and she returned home in her car one evening and was abducted, raped and brutally murdered, beaten to death in fact. The police apparently said that her ordeal could have lasted up to two and a half hours and she was abused in every imaginable way. It appears that her attacker just picked her at random and she was unlucky to be in the wrong place at the wrong time – it could have been anyone. Her attacker was caught and is now serving life with a minimum twenty-five year sentence and will be deported back to Eastern Europe on his eventual release. Hu told me all this with a quiet dignity that was, to say the least, humbling, but what he then went on to say was just as moving. After the incident, Hu his wife and Son were all receiving counselling (and still are) and were put in touch with support groups for families of victims of violent crime. Hu told me that he found the stories of other families to be quite shocking. It appears that most victims of these sorts of crimes either know or have some connection with their attacker, and in the vast majority of cases, both victims and perpetrators are either from very poor backgrounds or are socially deprived in other ways. Hu and his family are fairly middle class and were shocked to find that the families of some victims could not afford the funeral of their loved one. One case he told me was of a young lady whose partner had killed their little daughter and she was due to give evidence in court but was ashamed to appear because she could not afford any clothes to attend in, all she had were jeans, tee shirts and jumpers. Despite having to cope with their own tragedy, Hu and his family decided to set up a charitable body to help families of other victims and in remembrance of their daughter, it is called the Moira fund. It is a small and locally based charity. So, to cut to the quick, if we do eventually manage to put on the 'Music Hall / Variety Night' – how does anyone feel about donating some of the proceeds to this worthwhile cause? If you want to look up Moira's story or get more details of Moira's fund just Google Moira Jones – Glasgow. Thanks for taking the time to read this – I promise not to do it again. Cheers Steve" If you have read so far thank you. If it has made you think, then thank you again. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 13 Jan 12 - 09:16 AM I'm guessing that some of those who have found this story a source for some ribaldry, are outraged that some marines peed on the corpses of legally killed Taleban killers and terrorists. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: katlaughing Date: 13 Jan 12 - 12:14 PM Silas, thanks for sharing that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 13 Jan 12 - 12:19 PM Well I'm outraged at that, Keith. No-one, for ANY reason whatsoever should desecrate a dead body as those US Marines did. Not even if the dead body belonged to Jack the Ripper. As some of us have already asked, "Where is Respect, Decency and Dignity??" |
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Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate From: katlaughing Date: 13 Jan 12 - 01:00 PM This thread is now closed. kat - mod |