BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 15 Nov 12 - 05:59 AM

I note with interest your shying away from responding to:

"And the maximally aggressive destruction of Olive trees, houses, factories, schools, hospitals and a UN Post and the deaths and injuries therefrom?

WHO did that?????"

Since you choose not to answer, I'll do it for you.

ISRAEL and the heavy handed ISRAELI DEFENCE(?) FORCE!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Nov 12 - 02:44 AM

Stringsinger,
"The blockade was the minimally aggressive response to the deadly, indiscriminate, murderous missiles that Gaza launched and continues to launch against the ordinary Jews and Arabs and terrified children within range."

This is absolute horse shit proffered by Keith on this issue. It's extreme Israeli propaganda and not the sort that is agreed to by all of the Israeli people.

Not horse shit, but a simple statement of fact.
The minimal blockade was in direct response to the missiles that, in blatant contravention of International Law, indiscriminately target and terrorise civilians including Palestinian Israelis and children.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Nov 12 - 01:04 AM

It is a pain trying to debate with people lacking knowledge of basic facts.
You do not have to take my word Don.
Ask Jim Carroll.
Use Google.
Then you can choose to admit you were wrong, or slink silently away.
I wonder which you will choose.
(not)

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 08:43 PM

"This whole thread is shite.
That is what I have been telling you."

And we should take your word for it because you have such a wonderful reputation for even mindedness?????

YEAH RIGHT!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 03:13 PM

Jim, remember this conversation?
Me.
"Those poor people need essential supplies.
The IRC is begging for an opportunity to get stuff in.
What would be the point of your "trade embargo" Jim?
How would that stop the daily massacres?"

You.
"Those poor people need essential supplies."
These people need to be stopped getting killed first and foremost - a proven method of dealing with dictators is not to call them facile names but to threaten their economy and their power base."

And that dictator was not actually bombing us!
We were just reacting to how their own people were treated.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 03:08 PM

Don,
This whole thread is about Israel putting Gaza on a diet.

So who is deciding on how many truckloads are allowed to go through this non existent (according to blinkered you) restriction?

Don, it is a fact that Israel does not restrict food imports to Gaza.
No-one is deciding how many truckloads go through.
They can have as many as they like.
This whole thread is shite.
That is what I have been telling you.

The blockade began because of the missiles and Israel has repeatedly stated it will only continue while Gaza makes war on them, which seems reasonable. (See Bobad's post about recent statements.)

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 01:12 PM

"The blockade was the minimally aggressive response to the deadly, indiscriminate, murderous missiles that Gaza launched and continues to launch against the ordinary Jews and Arabs and terrified children within range."

And the maximally aggressive destruction of Olive trees, houses, factories, schools, hospitals and a UN Post and the deaths and injuries therefrom?

Who did that?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 01:05 PM

"If they called off the war, they would save the cost of all those expensive Qassams and mortar bombs, and of repairing the damage from Israel's replies.
Deny that?
Also the blockade would be completely lifted, bringing even more prosperity and happiness."

You have an inside line to Israel's foreign policy?

There is no hard and fast commitment to stop the blockade, the attacks, or anything else Israel may decide to inflict on its much weaker neighbour.

The Gazans are supposed to trust that any of that will happen? Their past experience of land grabbing and oppression wouldn't engender any great enthusiasm for that, would it?

And your final sentence shows just how tenuous your grasp on reality actually is.

"EVEN MORE PROSPERITY AND HAPPINESS????????"

You think they have prosperity and happiness now in their piles of rubble, needing food they can't afford, because their jobs have been blown away by shelling and missiles?

What God forsaken planet, in a galaxy far far away, are you living on with your blindfold and earplugs?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 12:52 PM

"Israel is the victim."

OH SURE! And bullies make a regular habit of hitting their victims in the baseball bats with their chins.

You really are a caution Keith. Pity so many human beings have to suffer to produce your fairy tales.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 12:45 PM

"2. There is no restriction by Israel on food imports to Gaza."

This whole thread is about Israel putting Gaza on a diet.

So who is deciding on how many truckloads are allowed to go through this non existent (according to blinkered you) restriction?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 12:40 PM

"He could imagine the possibility of big raids or something like that on the east coast, but a full scale invasion was less worrying to him than the biggest fear that he had all through the war, which was that Britain's sea lanes would be cut off,"

What Churchill feared never actually happened you twerp (WW2 History). The sea lanes were never completely, ar even near completely closed, so what exactly are you blethering about?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Stringsinger
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 10:41 AM

If Ban Ki Moon decides to establish prosecution for Israel's imprisonment of the Palestinian people and condemn Israel's war crimes, then I could support him.

As it stands, the minimalism of the damage that is being inflicted on the Palestinians
is an Israeli ruse. Hamas will continue as long as the Palestinian people are caged animals in an open air Israeli prison.

I don't condone the violence inflicted by Hamas or the violence which is far worse by Israel.

But white-washing the Israeli position is tantamount to perpetrating the violence and
those who support Israel's recalcitrance are offering an ignorant appraisal of the actual situation. I have been accused of not having enough information but I'll turn that around
and accuse my accuser of the same misleading information.

"The blockade was the minimally aggressive response to the deadly, indiscriminate, murderous missiles that Gaza launched and continues to launch against the ordinary Jews and Arabs and terrified children within range."

This is absolute horse shit proffered by Keith on this issue. It's extreme Israeli propaganda and not the sort that is agreed to by all of the Israeli people.
As for Palestinian terrorized children, you can see their looks in the eyes as Israeli soldiers abuse and kill them that is if you bother to watch news programs that will show you the real pictures of what's going on there.

A "shoah" of sorts resembling a concentration camp where there are undoubtably
Palestinians on the verge of starvation because they can't make ends meet is taking
place.

I wonder if the defenders of Israeli policies toward the Palestinians are really spies
for the CIA or the Irgun. Of course, there's Obama...........................................

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 04:53 AM

Your insistenc that if the rockets stopped then the Israelis would lift the blockade only serves to underline your support for Israeli hostage taking.
Huh??

The blockade was the minimally aggressive response to the deadly, indiscriminate, murderous missiles that Gaza launched and continues to launch against the ordinary Jews and Arabs and terrified children within range.

The Secretary-General reiterates his call for an immediate cessation of indiscriminate rocket attacks by Palestinian militants targeting Israel and strongly condemns these actions.
I join him.
How about you Jim?
Stringsinger?
Don?

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 04:27 AM

"More than 110 rockets"
None of which have ben fired by the ten percent of children suffering from malnutrition, or by the farmers whose land has been made unworkable by the Berlin Wall.
Your insistenc that if the rockets stopped then the Israelis would lift the blockade only serves to underline your support for Israeli hostage taking.
You have had the evidence of the reports of malnutrition and poverty brought about by the Israeli punitive measures against the civilian population - you ignore the facts and call those who make those repors "
liars" - The Un, Amnesty International
WERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE?
And you claim to be unbiased - sure you are
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 03:57 AM

The blockage is directed at the civilian population

No, it is not, but these are.
More than 110 rockets have hit Israel's south since escalation began on Saturday; after Gaza militants announced truce on Monday, two more rockets have landed in Israeli territory.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 01:32 AM

Ban's statement.

The Secretary-General is greatly concerned by the new wave of violence in Gaza and Southern Israel, which has resulted in several Palestinian deaths, including civilians, and wounded people on both sides.   He deplores the loss of life and calls for an immediate de-escalation of tensions.

The Secretary-General reiterates his call for an immediate cessation of indiscriminate rocket attacks by Palestinian militants targeting Israel and strongly condemns these actions.   He calls on Israel to exercise maximum restraint.   Both sides should do everything to avoid further escalation and must respect their obligations under international humanitarian law to ensure the protection of civilians at all times.
http://www.un.org/sg/statements/index.asp?nid=6412

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 02:37 PM

Yes I deny that.
Because Gaza chooses to be at war with Israel, Israel is entitled to establish a blockade.
It is a perfectly legal response and complies with International Law provided humanitarian supplies are allowed, which they always have been.

Stringsinger,
UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon on Monday (yesterday)evening condemned Palestinian rocket fire against southern Israel from Gaza and called for it to end. He also urged Israel to exercise maximum restraint in its response to the attacks.

"Both sides should do everything to avoid further escalation and must respect their obligations under international humanitarian law to ensure the protection of civilians at all times," his office said in a statement.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 12:24 PM

The blockage is directed at the civilian population
It includes material essential for rebuilding homes deliberately destroyed by the Israelis and farming material necessary for growing produce, both for feeding families and for selling to supplement the family incomes. In addition, the Berlin Wall cuts through Palestinian land, separating the farmers from their crops, in other words, attempting to starve them into submission.
To deliberately target people who have nothing whatever to do with the fighting by such actions is to use them as human shields and is tantamount to a war crime - making the Israeli regime war criminals.
Both Amnesty and the U.N. have identified these actions as the cause of malnutrition in ten percent of Palestinian children.
You and Bobad have both confirmed that the Israelis are using Palestinian civilians as human shields - "there is no confusion - if you want a normal life - stop firing."
By supporting these actions you are supporting war crimes - deny that?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 11:38 AM

Jim, it is a lie that Israel restricts food imports to Gaza.
Deny that?
It may be true that such blockade as there is makes worsens the poverty, but Gaza chooses to be at war.
Deny that?
If they called off the war, they would save the cost of all those expensive Qassams and mortar bombs, and of repairing the damage from Israel's replies.
Deny that?
Also the blockade would be completely lifted, bringing even more prosperity and happiness.

Stringsinger, Ban Ki Moon has slated Hamas for the recent rocket barrages.
Gaza chose to start it, and when they run low on missiles demand a ceasefire to avoid the consequences.
Israel is the victim.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: bobad
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 11:03 AM

President Shimon Peres addressed the recent rocket fire from Gaza into southern Israel on Tuesday, saying "Hamas needs to decide if it wants a quiet and developing Gaza or an unruly Gaza with no hope."

Speaking to students at the Academic College of Tel Aviv-Jaffa, Peres said "there is no confusion - if you want a normal life - stop firing."

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 10:55 AM

"All lies Jim."
Ta - that'll do nicely
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Stringsinger
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 10:22 AM

6. And Israel has committed another attack on Gaza in spite of the offer of Palestinian cease fires.

The UN Human Rights Commission is rubbing Obama and Netanyahu's nose in it.

Don't give me this conspiracy theory shit.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 10:21 AM

Greg, listing 5 untruths does not invalidate the 3 truths.
If that the best contribution you can make, why bother?

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 10:05 AM

And also:

1. The Earth is Flat.
2. There's no such thing as global climate change.
3. The Moon Landing was faked.
4. There never was a Holocaust perpetrated by the Nazis.
5. Elvis isn't dead.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 09:57 AM

Jim,
1. There is no starvation in Gaza.
2. There is no restriction by Israel on food imports to Gaza.
3. Hamas chooses to make war on Israel so they are responsible for the consequent blockade and all the hardships arising from it.

No Shoah in Gaza.
No Holocaust on Gazans.
All lies Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 09:52 AM

Don, WW2 Hisory.com
After the fall of France in June 1940, one stark fact was clear. Without the ability to receive large quantities of material from North America, Britain was doomed. This meant, of course, that the subsequent 'Battle of the Atlantic' was one of the most decisive battles of the entire conflict.

'Churchill himself said at the time,' says Professor David Reynolds, 'and certainly says in his memoirs, that he wasn't really afraid of invasion in 1940. He could imagine the possibility of big raids or something like that on the east coast, but a full scale invasion was less worrying to him than the biggest fear that he had all through the war, which was that Britain's sea lanes would be cut off, and that the country would eventually be starved into submission.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 09:40 AM

"Enough food for all gets in to Gaza."
So the UN and Amnesty are lying?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 09:29 AM

Don, there are no restrictions on food going in to Gaza, and have not been for over 2 years.
Even before that Israel ensured there was enough so that no-one starved.
The blockade was only imposed because of the rocket attacks.

From Daily Telegraph 2010.
Here is a summary of why Gaza is being blockaded, what is allowed in and out and whether the measures are working.

Why did Israel put the blockade in place?

Israel said it began the blockade to hold Hamas "responsible and accountable" for rocket attacks on Israeli towns.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 09:17 AM

The other point you made about rationing in Britain during the war is absolute nonsense, for two very good reasons.

1. Our parents went short to make sure we didn't. Child health didn't suffer, but I hardly ever saw a fat adult up to my sixth year.
2. Britain was a half agrarian half industrial country with over 11,000 miles of coastline and the German blockade was never close to being effective, so our food shortage never came close to the level imposed by Israel on Gaza.

They have inflicted vast damage and won't even allow materials for re-building to reach Gaza, and we've all seen the list of forbidden imports.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 09:07 AM

"And if they stopped firing all those missiles, there would be no blockade at all."

So you keep trying to convince us, but can you show me where the government of Israel has made that commitment plain to the Gazans.

It would be very simple:

"Cease the missiles = immediate withdrawal of the blockade".

"Enough food for all gets in to Gaza.
The malnutrition is the result of poverty, as in Egypt that Gaza was once part of."

Not disputed Keith, but the poverty is imposed by Israel blocking exports, impeding imports and destroying the capacity to earn as a direct result.

Not the same as poverty due to the inadequacies of their own government, as was the case with Egypt.

Your arguments have more holes than a sieve.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 08:26 AM

No Jim.
Enough food for all gets in to Gaza.
The malnutrition is the result of poverty, as in Egypt that Gaza was once part of.

In WW2, Britain was close to starving because of the U boat blockade.
We had calorie counting and rationing.
Child health has never been better than it was under the rationing.

Gaza can end the blockade any time by ending the war against Israel.
Prosperity would return.
They prefer war.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 08:11 AM

THE PRESENT POVERTY AND MALNUTRITION HAS BEEN DIRECTLY ATTRIBUTED TO THE BLOCKADE BY VIRTUALLY ALL COMMENTATORS INCLUDING THE UN AND AMNESTY
NO - IT OBVIOUSLY DOESN'T MELT THE HEARTS OF THOSE WHO SUPPORT SUCH ATROCITIES
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 07:28 AM

Do not try to blame Israel for all the poverty in the Middle East.
Gaza is no worse than Egypt, Yemen, Jordan etc.
Gaza would have much less poverty if they stopped shooting Kazam missile by the dozen, at $500 each.
And if they stopped firing all those missiles, there would be no blockade at all.

"Indicators from the 2009 data showed that 30 percent of Upper Egyptians suffered from caloric deprivation, and 49 percent had poor dietary diversity.

Almost a third of Upper Egyptians suffer from iron, zinc, or vitamin A deficiency. Iron deficiency leads to loss of attention and low productivity, which impinges on education and work. "Anaemia mainly affects children, because their bodies have higher demands," said Hafiz.

A lack of vitamin A may lead to night blindness, also known as nyctalopia, while zinc deficiency may cause severe diarrhoea and pneumonia. These two health problems are common among children in the governorate of Minya, according to Mohamed of Minya University.

"This is a vicious circle, because diarrhoea and pneumonia weaken the immune system, and a weak immune system leads to more diarrhoea and pneumonia," he added. "

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 07:12 AM

From the same source JC just quoted:-

"A recent report [pdf] by Save the Children and Medical Aid for Palestinians found that, in addition, anaemia is widespread, affecting over two-thirds of infants, 58.6 percent of schoolchildren, and over a third of pregnant mothers.

I mean, don't those figures make you want to do something for those mothers and children? Wouldn't they melt anyone's heart?

Although, under international pressure, the Israeli government eased its blockade slightly in 2010, and foodstuffs are no longer interdicted, it still limits imports into Gaza, and its wide-ranging ban on exports has thrown Palestinians into unemployment at Depression levels, imperilling their ability to afford food even when it is available."

That might just be the explanation of the fact that there is food in then shops and also that surplus food is being exported.

It highlights the dangers of drawing conclusions from one visit, without considering possible explanations, and indeed medical evidence.

Whether you starve a man by food deprivation, or by destroying his means of making a living so that he can't buy food, the end result is the same. Slow and deliberate starvation!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 07:00 AM

The blockade is there because Gaza chooses to make war on Israel.
No war, no blockade.
They would rather see their children go hungry than stop attacking Israel and killing Jews.
Right now Israeli children are cowering in shelters, unable to go to school.
What else can Israel do Jim?

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 06:24 AM

You have the stated and proven effects of the blockade found by the UN, Amnesty, even by Israelis themselves and you continue to support the behaviour of these thugs - you are on your own, so I'll leave you to your sickness
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 05:44 AM

There IS plenty of food.
There is malnutrition due to poverty in most countries, including Britain, Ireland and US.
The poverty and malnutrition in Gaza is no worse than in say Egypt, Jordan, Yemen, Syria etc.

Israel can not be blamed for all of them.

As I showed you, the UN World Food Programme exports Gazan surplus food instead of getting it from Egypt or further afield.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 05:29 AM

"You can not show anything to say there is starvation, because it is a lie.... There is more than enough food."

"The food blockade had real effects. About ten percent of Palestinian children in Gaza under 5 have had their growth stunted by malnutrition."
http://beforeitsnews.com/politics/2012/10/creepy-israeli-planning-for-palestinian-food-insecurity-in-gaza-revealed-2464654.html

" most households have suffered from limited access to basics such as food, water, sanitation, and money,"
"This lack of cash also prevented access to basic supplies including the limited stocks of food in the markets"
"According to the World Food Programme, between 35-60 percent of the agriculture industry has been damaged by the Israeli military operation. The Food and Agriculture Organization estimates that 13,000 families who depend directly on farming, herding and fishing have suffered significant damage to their livelihoods"
"The small amount of aid allowed in, while better than nothing, is a pitiful gesture in the face of such an overwhelming humanitarian crisis," noting that insufficient amounts of food, fuel and medical supplies were delivered.[61] "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_the_Gaza_War

Mass unemployment, extreme poverty and food price rises caused by shortages have left four in five Gazans dependent on humanitarian aid.
http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/suffocating-gaza-israeli-blockades-effects-palestinians-2010-06-01

The blockade has produced massive unemployment and poverty, lack of potable water, widespread food insecurity, startlingly high levels of anemia, and the stunting of poorer childrens' growth.
The food blockade had real effects. About ten percent of Palestinian children in Gaza under 5 have had their growth stunted by malnutrition.
http://www.juancole.com/israel-palestine


Treatment of children by the "humanitarian" Israelis
http://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=12375&LangID=E

Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 04:43 AM

I have provided plenty of hard evidence to show there is no starvation.
You can not show anything to say there is starvation, because it is a lie.

Gaza has poor people, as does every country.
Do you blame Israel for all the poverty in the world.

There is more than enough food.
Are you accusing Hamas of allowing their poor to starve?
I do not make that accusation.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 03:53 AM

It's only sicko extremists like you who would attempt to differentiate between the extreme hardship now being experienced by the poorest families, and starvation - all described in reports put out by organisations such as Amnesty - read them and claim they are lying, but don't you dare try to say that they are being reported.
It is the same sicko attitude that has attempted to claim that the chemicals used by the Israelis which have inflicted the horrific injuries on men, women and particularly on children, and which have so graphically illustrated in many reports - are not chemical weapons.
If any of this gives you a shred of comfort, please continue to make your claims; it only serves to underline what a monstrous regime you and your fellow zealots are supporting.
At one time, when you were getting no support, would invent it by faking an identity; since having been warned off you now are claiming support from others where you have none.
Extreme hardship, verging on poverty, is being experienced by people who have been made homeless, are unable to sell their produce or feed their families from their crops because they have been deliberately cut off from their land.
There is no MASS poverty at present, but should the proposals being considered by the regime and its ultra nationalist friends be put into place, there certainly will be
And your solution - give up to the hostage takers - "come out with your hands up".
No civilised country agrees to the demands of a regime that takes an entire people hostage and attempts to starve and humiliate them into submission
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 02:52 AM

Lying turd Jim?
Misquoting you?

On Nov 7 at 6.52AM, in reply to my "No starvation, no shoah, no holocaust" you said, "Nobody has suggested that any of these thigs exist at present "

So, it was not me that lied.
No families are starving Jim.
I have shown that there is plenty of food, and food to spare.
Why do you twats believe all the lies fed to you by the Jihadists?

Don.
And we're to believe that the day the rockets stop, Israel is going to stop bulldozing buildings, controlling food supplies and building fences across Palestinian farms, cutting them off?

They stopped all those things years ago.
There are no Israeli bulldozers in Gaza.
There are no Israelis in Gaza.
Whenever the rockets stop, so do Israels counter attacks.

In the towns of Southern Israel, all the schools are closed as families have to cower never far from the shelters where they have to sleep.
And you twats expect Israel to be gracious in return.
Amazingly, they actually are!
They temper the blockade so that the hate filled wannabe child murderers can fire their evil missiles on full stomachs.
Extraordinary.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 12:54 PM

"Even Jim has told us that."
Don't you dare misquote me you lying turd - I said there were families who were already starving (I didn't bother adding homeless due to having their houses razed to the ground)
I also said that should the Nazi-type 'calorie counting exercise be put into operation there will be wholesale starvation \mong the porer sections of the population)
Why do you bother taking part in these discussions if you can't put forward an honest argument?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 12:34 PM

And we're to believe that the day the rockets stop, Israel is going to stop bulldozing buildings, controlling food supplies and building fences across Palestinian farms, cutting them off?

They're going to stop all settlement of Palestinian land and allow Hamas to govern, as it was elected to do?

They're going to retire within their own borders and stay there?

And Santa Claus is alive and well and living in Lapland with a bunch of elves!

And, Bobad, if we don't believe it, how likely are the Gazans to do so?

Of course, if the IDF withdrew and the blockade was lifted......?

But the fanatics who govern Israel are even more intransigent than the Palestinian rebels.

Looks like this will run and run.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: bobad
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 11:29 AM

".... they can, whenever they choose."

As can Hamas, whenever they choose, embrace peace with Israel by ceasing their hostilities towards it which would give Israel no reason to continue it's blockade....but you know it and choose to ignore that fact as do the other posters who choose to only criticize Israel's actions without mention of the reasons for those actions.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 11:12 AM

"Jewish atheism refers to atheism as practiced by people who are ethnically, and to some extent culturally, Jewish. Because Jewishness encompasses ethnic as well as religious components, the term "Jewish atheism" does not necessarily imply a contradiction."

If you claim this special merger of nationality and religion for Jews, which applies to no other race/religion on the planet, how do you explain American Jews, European Jews, Russian Jews, and a host of other Jews who did not emigrate from Israel, and are not Israeli, while you conflate Israeli with Jewish.

Seems that you want to have your cake and eat it and given the settlements, the bulldozing of homes etc. it would seem you also want a slice of cake belonging to others.

Israelis would not accept being held to ransom by a foreign power controlling their borders and food supply, and taking over chunks of their land. Why do they expect the Palestinians to accept it?

Israel of course, is the one with nukes and monstrously superior firepower, so why are they surprised that the sovereign state held in thrall to their whims and mood changes, uses whatever pathetic means they possess to retaliate.

This thread, like so many others, is concentrated on the wrong question. It isn't the fact that Israel is starving Gazans, it is that they can, whenever they choose.

Which of you would live under that threat and NOT want to fight back?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: bobad
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 08:44 AM

Gaza militants launched 10 rockets into southern Israel by midday Monday, including one that struck the yard of a house, the military said. The barrage ramps up pressure on the Israeli government to stage a large-scale operation aimed at stopping the persistent attacks.

No injuries were reported and there was no immediate Israeli retaliation. But earlier in the day, Israeli aircraft struck three militant sites in Gaza.

According to the military's count, more than 110 rockets have hit Israel since Saturday.

The violence threatens to explode into a major confrontation ahead of Israel's Jan. 22 elections.

Israeli leaders have warned they won't tolerate continued assaults and have threatened a more forceful response.

"The world must understand that Israel will not sit idly in the face of attempts to attack us," Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Sunday.

Defence Minister Ehud Barak has said Israel's upcoming elections will not deter Israel from acting militarily.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 05:34 AM

UN World Food Programme helping Gaza by exporting its surplus food to West Bank Palestinians.
http://www.wfp.org/node/3465/4847/310191

and
"Biscuits From Gaza Feed West Bank Schoolkids
The nutritious datebars eaten by children at schools in the West Bank used to be shipped in from Egypt or even further afield. Now they are now being produced much closer to where they are needed: in Gaza. The result is that the local economy is being supported and kids in the West Bank are eating biscuits produced by fellow Palestinians. The first convoy of datebars recently made the crossing from Gaza."
http://www.wfp.org/node/3465/4847/226859

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 05:39 PM

In a 2006 patriotism survey, 56% of Israeli Arabs were not proud of their citizenship and 73% were not ready to fight to defend the state, but 77% said that Israel was better than most other countries and 53% were proud of the country's welfare system. Eighty-two percent said they would rather be a citizen of Israel than of any other country in the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 05:37 PM

The Independent 2009
a second Palestinian "Nakba", or catastrophe – this one at hands of the Arab governments. "Marginalised, deprived of basic political and economic rights, trapped in the camps, bereft of realistic prospects, heavily armed and standing atop multiple fault lines," a report by the International Crisis Group (ICG) in Lebanon recently observed, "the refugee population constitutes a time bomb."

The fact that the divided Palestinian political leadership is silent about the mistreatment of the refugees by Arab states does not make such behaviour any less reprehensible – or less dangerous. Some 250,000 Palestinians were chased out of Kuwait and other Gulf States to punish the Palestinian political leadership for supporting Saddam Hussein. Tens of thousands of Palestinian residents of Iraq were similarly dispossessed after the second Gulf war.

In 2001, Palestinians in Lebanon were stripped of the right to own property, or to pass on the property that they already owned to their children – and banned from working as doctors, lawyers, pharmacists or in 20 other professions. Even the Palestinian refugee community in Jordan, historically the most welcoming Arab state, has reason to feel insecure in the face of official threats to revoke their citizenship. The systematic refusal of Arab governments to grant basic human rights to Palestinians who are born and die in their countries – combined with periodic mass expulsions of entire Palestinian communities – recalls the treatment of Jews in medieval Europe

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 05:36 PM

There is no starvation in Gaza.
Even Jim has told us that.
The whole world media reports from Gaza, including Al Jazeera and other Arab networks, Russia, China and Scandinavia.
None have reported starvation.
Numerous international aid and welfare organisations and NGOs are there.
None are involved in emergency feeding.
UN aid and welfare agencies are there.
None say there is starvation.
I have given quotes from Red Cross and Hamas both stating in terms that there is no starvation.
It is just propaganda Strinsinger.