|
Subject: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: beardedbruce Date: 17 Apr 13 - 12:24 PM Hamas Bulldozes UN-Designated Historical Site to Make Room for Terrorist Training Camp By Sharona Schwartz | The Blaze – 2 hrs 26 mins ago Hamas' military wing Izz ad-Din al-Qassam last month bulldozed part of a site designated of historic value by the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) in order to make room for the group's terrorist training, according to Al-Monitor Palestine Pulse. Less than two years ago, UNESCO voted in Palestine as a member in order to help the Palestinians preserve heritage sites under their control. The destruction of a portion of the ancient Anthedon Harbor along the Mediterranean coast of Gaza has prompted the group UN Watch to send a blistering letter to the head of UNESCO slamming the world body for ignoring Hamas' actions. Al-Monitor reports: The Anthedon seaport, which dates back over 3,000 years to the Mycenaean era, is considered one of the most important sites in the Middle East and is the oldest harbor in Gaza. It was designated an international heritage site by UNESCO in 2012. The location was discovered in 1997 on the space of 180,000 square meters. It contains mosaic floors with historical pillars from the Roman, Byzantine and Islamic ages. The Ministry of Tourism in Gaza - also run by Hamas - is denying the site was damaged and insists the land will be repurposed for military purposes only "temporarily." Deputy Tourism Minister Muhammad Khela tells Al-Monitor, "We can't stand as an obstacle in the way of Palestinian resistance; we are all a part of a resistance project, yet we promise that the location will be limitedly used without harming it at all." The term "resistance" is commonly used by Palestinians to refer to violent acts committed against Israelis, including rocket launchings, bombings and stone-throwing. Khela tried to justify the decision by blaming the UN for not providing the Hamas government with the proper funding to excavate the site. "If the location was excavated already, I don't think it would have been possible for anyone to take it over," Khela said, adding, "it should be UNESCO and other donating groups' job to do so." The non-profit UN Watch which monitors mismanagement at the world body and the unequal treatment of member states blasted UNESCO for its silence in the face of the site's disfigurement, particularly because UNESCO voted Palestine as a member in 2011 allegedly to "help protect world heritage sites in Palestinian areas." UN Watch is demanding UNESCO step in to stop any further bulldozing of the Gaza site: The partial destruction of the ancient Anthedon Harbor--which includes the ruins of a Roman temple and archaeological remains from the Persian, Hellenistic, Roman and Byzantine eras--comes exactly one year after the area was nominated by new UNESCO member state Palestine as a World Heritage site. UN Watch also pointed to UNESCO's long-held tradition of singling out Israel for criticism, which is continuing even at the group's biannual meeting this month. In a strongly-worded letter to UNESCO Director General Irina Bokova, UN Watch Executive Director Hillel Neuer writes: We note the tragic irony that this destruction by the rulers of Gaza comes exactly one year after the area was nominated by new UNESCO member state Palestine as a World Heritage site. [...] That the UNESCO executive has so far failed to place the Hamas destruction and cynical abuse of this site on its agenda underscores the tragic politicization and diversion of the agency's mission to protect world culture and heritage. According the current UNESCO session timetable, there are in fact four agenda items dedicated exclusively to Palestinian issues: Items 9, 10, 34, and 35, while Item 5 includes a fifth report on this issue. Israel is the only country in the world that is targeted for specific criticism in this session. Previous UNESCO resolutions on these five items were rightly described by US Ambassador David Killion as "highly politicized" and designed to "single out Israel." The extreme politicization even prompted Russia to successfully oppose discussion of these items, despite vehement Palestinian opposition, at the previous 190th session in October. UNESCO's admission of Palestine as a member state in 2011, which caused the organization to lose almost a quarter of its budget when the US suspended its contributions, was justified as a measure to help protect world heritage sites in Palestinian areas. Yet as Hamas turns a cultural heritage site into a terrorist training ground--the antithesis of culture--the silence of UNESCO now places the very credibility of the organization at stake. This isn't the first example of Palestinian destruction of an historically significant site. An Israeli archaeologist reported in December that the Waqf - the Muslim religious authority governing the Temple Mount in Jerusalem - continues to destroy Jewish antiquities on the Temple Mount. This is in violation a ruling by Israel's High Court of Justice. In 1999, the Wakf employed bulldozers to remove 10,000 tons of dirt from the area known as King Solomon's Stables saying it needed to make room for an emergency exit for the Marwani Mosque. The Jerusalem Post reported: "Archeologists were stunned at the wanton disregard for preserving the material. Garbage trucks dumped the debris in a big heap in one end of the nearby Kidron Valley." After Palestine was voted in as a UNESCO member, the U.S. pulled its funding for the group, about one fifth of its operating budget. According to UN Watch, the Obama Administration is now trying to convince Congress to waive legislative restrictions and approve $77.7 million in funds for UNESCO. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: Jack the Sailor Date: 17 Apr 13 - 12:31 PM Wow! Just a little bit biased eh? LOL! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: Jack the Sailor Date: 17 Apr 13 - 02:21 PM I just noticed it is an opinion piece from "the blaze." Just who is more measured, fair, calm and balanced than Glenn Beck. Not everyone is too looney for Fox "News" Network. LOL LOL |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: beardedbruce Date: 17 Apr 13 - 02:28 PM So, you attack the source, and ignore the factual content?? "The partial destruction of the ancient Anthedon Harbor--which includes the ruins of a Roman temple and archaeological remains from the Persian, Hellenistic, Roman and Byzantine eras--comes exactly one year after the area was nominated by new UNESCO member state Palestine as a World Heritage site." You obviously approve of this. "This isn't the first example of Palestinian destruction of an historically significant site. An Israeli archaeologist reported in December that the Waqf - the Muslim religious authority governing the Temple Mount in Jerusalem - continues to destroy Jewish antiquities on the Temple Mount. This is in violation a ruling by Israel's High Court of Justice. In 1999, the Wakf employed bulldozers to remove 10,000 tons of dirt from the area known as King Solomon's Stables saying it needed to make room for an emergency exit for the Marwani Mosque. The Jerusalem Post reported: "Archeologists were stunned at the wanton disregard for preserving the material. Garbage trucks dumped the debris in a big heap in one end of the nearby Kidron Valley."" And this as well- after all, it was just a Jewish site, so who cares what is done to it. Now, if it had been a mosque.... THEN you would be screaming and demanding that everyone condemn it. So I think your attack on the source, rather than discussing the facts, is obvious bigotry. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: beardedbruce Date: 17 Apr 13 - 02:32 PM Where I read the story |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: beardedbruce Date: 17 Apr 13 - 02:34 PM listed source |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: beardedbruce Date: 17 Apr 13 - 02:36 PM "Earlier last month, amid overwhelming criticism from public figures and nongovernmental organizations, the military wing of the Islamic movement of Hamas, Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, bulldozed a part of the ancient Anthedon Harbor in northern Gaza along the Mediterranean Sea. The Brigades damaged the harbor in order to expand its military training zone, which was initially opened on the location in 2002, according to Ejla. The Anthedon seaport, which dates back over 3,000 years to the Mycenaean era, is considered one of the most important sites in the Middle East and is the oldest harbor in Gaza. It was designated an international heritage site by UNESCO in 2012. The location was discovered in 1997 on the space of 180,000 square meters. It contains mosaic floors with historical pillars from the Roman, Byzantine and Islamic ages." Read more: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2013/04/hamas-damages-heritage-site.html#ixzz2QkNnqOZ7 But this is fine, according to Jack the Bigot. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: beardedbruce Date: 17 Apr 13 - 02:38 PM http://blog.unwatch.org/index.php/2013/04/15/unesco-silent-as-hamas-bulldozes-world-heritage-site-for-terrorist-training-camp/ "UN Watch is a non-governmental organization based in Geneva whose mandate is to monitor the performance of the United Nations by the yardstick of its own charter. The independent group was established in 1993 under the chairmanship of the late Morris B. Abram, pioneer civil rights leader with Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr., and former U.S. ambassador to the UN in Geneva. UN Watch participates actively at the UN as an accredited NGO in Special Consultative Status to the UN Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC) and as an Associate NGO to the UN Department of Public Information (DPI). " |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: beardedbruce Date: 17 Apr 13 - 02:45 PM "accredited NGO in Special Consultative Status to the UN Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC) and as an Associate NGO to the UN Department of Public Information (DPI)." VS Jack the Bigot Guess who wins, here at Mudcat???? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: pdq Date: 17 Apr 13 - 02:57 PM JtS posted 52 times on the 15th (!) and said nothing worth saying, as usual. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: Jim Carroll Date: 17 Apr 13 - 03:02 PM Factual content, including UNESCO's response Jim Carroll Hamas Military Wing Damages Gaza Heritage Site By: Abeer Ayyoub for Al-Monitor Palestine Pulse Posted on April 14. One of the oldest civilizations in the world — with a lot of historic commercial value — the Palestinian coastal Gaza Strip is laden with ancient gems. Yet due to its unstable situation, tourism has never been a sector on which Gaza could rely. Consequently, archaeological sites are not given proper governmental support. With national division between the Hamas-run government in Gaza and its Fatah-run counterpart in the West Bank, coordination between the two ministries of tourism barely exists. At the Hamas-run government in Gaza, responsibilities of both the Ministry of Agriculture and Ministry of Tourism were recently referred to one minister, which, according to Yusif Ejla at UNESCO's Gaza office, places agriculture as a priority at the expense of tourism. Ejla said that the problems with Gaza's tourism ministry are not all about lack of funds, but lack of awareness as well. He said that officials at the ministry lack professional experience. "The Gaza ministry's main focus has become on restaurants and hotels, while monuments are totally being ignored, and sometimes even harmed," Ejla explained. Earlier last month, amid overwhelming criticism from public figures and nongovernmental organizations, the military wing of the Islamic movement of Hamas, Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, bulldozed a part of the ancient Anthedon Harbor in northern Gaza along the Mediterranean Sea. The Brigades damaged the harbor in order to expand its military training zone, which was initially opened on the location in 2002, according to Ejla. The Anthedon seaport, which dates back over 3,000 years to the Mycenaean era, is considered one of the most important sites in the Middle East and is the oldest harbor in Gaza. It was designated an international heritage site by UNESCO in 2012. The location was discovered in 1997 on the space of 180,000 square meters. It contains mosaic floors with historical pillars from the Roman, Byzantine and Islamic ages. In a press statement, the Hamas-run Ministry of Tourism said that it is the only responsible authority over the location, and it would not permit harm to the monuments. "Due to rising population in the region, the ministry appreciates the urgent need for using new pieces of land. This is why the ministry has agreed with the different responsible parties on using a limited part of the location temporarily in a way that won't harm the underground monuments there in any way," the statement read. But Deputy Minister of Tourism in Gaza Muhammad Khela told Al-Monitor that the location was taken for military use and not demographic purposes. "We can't stand as an obstacle in the way of Palestinian resistance; we are all a part of a resistance project, yet we promise that the location will be limitedly used without harming it at all," Khela explained. The main problem with the location, Khela said, was that his government doesn't have enough funds for excavation, which is why it was covered with sand for protection. Khela shifted responsibility onto the shoulders of UNESCO. "If the location was excavated already, I don't think it would have been possible for anyone to take it over," Khela explained, adding that "it should be UNESCO and other donating groups' job to do so." However, Ejla from UNESCO refuted this assertion, stressing that his agency is not a donor and cannot grant financial support to such projects. "We are an organization that receives funds itself so we can hold our services up, but we can't fund anyone," he noted. The damage to the ancient site has also drawn the attention of local activists, with Gaza-based human rights researcher Mustafa Ibrahim appealing on his Facebook account to Gaza's Prime Minister Ismael Haniyeh to "rescue" the site. "What happened at the ancient Harbor of Gaza is a serious harm to Palestinian culture and history," said Ibrahim. Khela, however, insisted that his government is taking care of historical monuments in Gaza, explaining that the government does its best to allocate funds in its budget for the excavation of newly discovered sites and protection of already excavated sites. "For now, we managed to grant guarding for all [historic] sites, with guards in these locations working on a shift system," he said. Ejla disputed this claim, saying that the governmental guards work only until 2 p.m., when all the governmental offices close. "Regularly, I receive offers to buy antiquities from people who have managed to steal them from government-run heritage sites. Where is the government protecting Palestinian heritage?" he exclaimed. Besides looting, the excavation of new sites is, according to Ejla, often done in an unprofessional manner, which unintentionally damages parts of the sites. "I think that the authorities should invest more in their ability to take care of the monuments in Gaza. Heritage is something that can't be lost." Abeer Ayyoub is a former human rights researcher turned journalist whose work has appeared in Al Masry Al-Youm, Al Jazeera, and Haaretz. Follow her on Twitter @Abeerayyoub. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: beardedbruce Date: 17 Apr 13 - 03:04 PM Some here will turn a blind eye to anything they do not want to ee, but from the other thread: "So when you spot violence, or bigotry, or intolerance or fear or just garden-variety misogyny, hatred or ignorance, just look it in the eye and think, "The good outnumber you, and we always will."" I see you Jack, and note your misogyny, hatred and ignorance. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: beardedbruce Date: 17 Apr 13 - 03:07 PM ""What happened at the ancient Harbor of Gaza is a serious harm to Palestinian culture and history," said Ibrahim." But the bigots here do not care about Palestinian culture or history. Anything which does not criticize Israel is to be mocked or ignored. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: beardedbruce Date: 17 Apr 13 - 03:09 PM How good of Jim to post the content of the link I previously posted. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 17 Apr 13 - 03:22 PM If Israel could be accused of damaging such a site, how different the reaction would be. Greg, you never criticise Stringsinger for posting stuff from biased sites. What is you view of this incident please? You forgot to say. http://blog.unwatch.org/index.php/2013/04/15/unesco-silent-as-hamas-bulldozes-world-heritage-site-for-terrorist-training-camp/ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: beardedbruce Date: 17 Apr 13 - 03:48 PM ANd note that it is a violation of the Geneva Conventions to put a military instillation on a declared historic site.... But the resident bigots have no problem with Hamas doing that- it is ONLY Israel that is at fault, after all. And any fact that they disagree with is not permitted. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: Greg F. Date: 17 Apr 13 - 05:13 PM Ah, jeez! Bruce has contracted an acute case of postarrhoea again. Try paregoric, Bruce; I don't think kaolin will suffice. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: Lighter Date: 17 Apr 13 - 05:31 PM > Deputy Tourism Minister Muhammad Khela tells Al-Monitor, "We can't stand as an obstacle in the way of Palestinian resistance; we are all a part of a resistance project, yet we promise that the location will be limitedly used without harming it at all." So Hamas admits what it's doing, though how you can bulldoze part of a designated archaeological site without "harming it at all" will take some explaining. Facts are facts. Just how much of the site has been or is being damaged is not made clear, however. If it were insignificant, Hamas would have said so. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 17 Apr 13 - 05:46 PM With sites like this, beautiful beaches an scenery, and a lovely climate, Gaza could be a prosperous paradise instead of the shit-hole of the whole region. If they just stopped making war and killing Jews. The ports could open to cruise ships and commerce. Likewise the airport. Tourism, trade, commerce, peace and prosperity for all. Or, never ending war and death. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: Greg F. Date: 17 Apr 13 - 06:36 PM I didn't forget, Keith, I'm just following the old adage that "He who wrestles with a turd will be beshit." |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 18 Apr 13 - 02:49 AM Greg, you indulge your coprophilia to the disgust of us all. What else do you do? Both your posts are gratuitously offensive. but contribute nothing the the debate. You have not expressed an opinion on the issue or even referred to it. What is the point of Greg F? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: Greg F. Date: 18 Apr 13 - 08:43 AM Its not a debate. Its the presentation and refutation of propaganda & bias - with a little bit of schoolyard scrapping thrown in. There isn't one "issue"; the BS wanders all over the place. Have fun! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 18 Apr 13 - 10:31 AM The issue is the damage to an ancient site. The debate is about how seriously it should be taken. What do you think Greg? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: Greg F. Date: 18 Apr 13 - 10:39 AM Ghanks for asking. I think I'm tired of your nonsense - ditto Beardie's & the rest of the Israel Propaganda Consortium. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: Jack the Sailor Date: 18 Apr 13 - 10:54 AM Bruce, I don't have much of an opinion on the incident. Compared to lobbing rockets on one side and bombing houses and blockades on the other, it just isn't a big deal. According to the initial "blaze" report you posted the site was not "destroyed" a small part was "bulldozed" and even the blaze does not allege any specific damage. You exaggerated? Why? To make Hamas look bad? If the "resistance" to Israel hasn't convinced anyone, I doubt this will. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 18 Apr 13 - 11:19 AM Tourism in Gaza would seem to be an oxymoron. In case nobody has noticed, the biggest problem might be the chance of a hotel full of foreign tourists taking a hit from the next Israeli air strike. As for Palestinian heritage and culture, isn't that what Israel is in the process of eradicating by slow strangulation? And have BB and other Israel apologists complained about, or even bothered to notice, the Historic Sites and Buildings blown apart by Israel's minions? You guys show you care about any of that. Then you'll have the right to sneer at us. Don T. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: beardedbruce Date: 18 Apr 13 - 12:06 PM From the original story that I read: "The destruction of a portion of the ancient Anthedon Harbor along the Mediterranean coast of Gaza has prompted the group UN Watch to send a blistering letter to the ..." You don't like the word, talk to Yahoo. So, Don T, you approve of the violation of international law because it is not as bad as what Israel is doing??? Isn't that what YOU said was NOT valid in previous discussions??????? Or are you being a bigot and applying different rules to the two sides? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: beardedbruce Date: 18 Apr 13 - 12:21 PM So which is it, DonT? You can't use Israel as an excuse for Hamas destruction of Gaza's history. " From: Don(Wyziwyg)T - PM Date: 14 Apr 13 - 08:19 AM .... The fact that there are, or were, worse examples of killing cannot be justification of the current actions of anybody. .... Don T." |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: Jack the Sailor Date: 18 Apr 13 - 12:40 PM "The destruction of a portion" Which word? "portion?" |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: beardedbruce Date: 18 Apr 13 - 12:50 PM Jack, Let me "splain" something: Yahoo used the word "destruction" Should I have said "Hamas violates Geneva Conventions building military installation on UN Gaza Historical site"?? Then get Mudcat changed to give me enough space. Since you have no problems with anti-Israel posts that do not say the exact words, I will chalk this up as another anti-Semetic comment. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas damages part of UN protected site From: Jack the Sailor Date: 18 Apr 13 - 01:05 PM Hamas damages part of UN protected site. It fits fine and is not an exaggeration. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: beardedbruce Date: 18 Apr 13 - 01:06 PM DonT, "the Historic Sites and Buildings blown apart by Israel's minions?" Care to mention some? And doesn't this violate your OWN statement ? NO ISRAELI action can be used to justify actions by Hamas, if you do not allow actions by Hamas to justify Israeli actions. Unless you are a lying bigot, of course. So what are you? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: beardedbruce Date: 18 Apr 13 - 01:11 PM OK, THAT fits without the period. It is ok to destroy just part of a site, I guess. Now, for your comments about the titles of threads on Israel???? Can I depend on you to remember to correct the next thread that states "Israel bombs Gaza" and insist on "Israel bombs part of Gaza"???????? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: Jack the Sailor Date: 18 Apr 13 - 01:33 PM "It is ok to destroy just part of a site, I guess. " I didn't say that but the article you posted did say this. "we promise that the location will be limitedly used without harming it at all." So it is Sharona of the Blaze vs the Gaza tourism minister. She said vs He said. Except the Gaza tourism minister is actually in Gaza. We can all decide for ourselves who is more credible. >>>Now, for your comments about the titles of threads on Israel???? Can I depend on you to remember to correct the next thread that states "Israel bombs Gaza" and insist on "Israel bombs part of Gaza"??<<< Come on Bruce. "Bombs" does not imply totality. If they say "Israel Destroys Gaza" It would mean an entirely different thing than "Israel Bombs Gaza." and either scenario would be far worse than taking a bulldozer to a historic site on their own land. Just as "Hamas rockets destroy Israeli village" would be worse than "rockets fired at Israeli village" |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: beardedbruce Date: 18 Apr 13 - 01:40 PM Jack, Don't you bother to read before commenting?? "The damage to the ancient site has also drawn the attention of local activists, with Gaza-based human rights researcher Mustafa Ibrahim appealing on his Facebook account to Gaza's Prime Minister Ismael Haniyeh to "rescue" the site. "What happened at the ancient Harbor of Gaza is a serious harm to Palestinian culture and history," said Ibrahim. Khela, however, insisted that his government is taking care of historical monuments in Gaza, explaining that the government does its best to allocate funds in its budget for the excavation of newly discovered sites and protection of already excavated sites. "For now, we managed to grant guarding for all [historic] sites, with guards in these locations working on a shift system," he said. Ejla disputed this claim, saying that the governmental guards work only until 2 p.m., when all the governmental offices close. "Regularly, I receive offers to buy antiquities from people who have managed to steal them from government-run heritage sites. Where is the government protecting Palestinian heritage?" he exclaimed. Besides looting, the excavation of new sites is, according to Ejla, often done in an unprofessional manner, which unintentionally damages parts of the sites. "I think that the authorities should invest more in their ability to take care of the monuments in Gaza. Heritage is something that can't be lost." Abeer Ayyoub is a former human rights researcher turned journalist whose work has appeared in Al Masry Al-Youm, Al Jazeera, and Haaretz. Follow her on Twitter @Abeerayyoub." |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: beardedbruce Date: 18 Apr 13 - 01:42 PM "Hamas' military wing Izz ad-Din al-Qassam last month bulldozed part of a site designated of historic value by the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) in order to make room for the group's terrorist training, according to Al-Monitor Palestine Pulse. Less than two years ago, UNESCO voted in Palestine as a member in order to help the Palestinians preserve heritage sites under their control. The destruction of a portion of the ancient Anthedon Harbor along the Mediterranean coast of Gaza has prompted the group UN Watch to send a blistering letter to the head of UNESCO slamming the world body for ignoring Hamas' actions. Al-Monitor reports: The Anthedon seaport, which dates back over 3,000 years to the Mycenaean era, is considered one of the most important sites in the Middle East and is the oldest harbor in Gaza. It was designated an international heritage site by UNESCO in 2012. The location was discovered in 1997 on the space of 180,000 square meters. It contains mosaic floors with historical pillars from the Roman, Byzantine and Islamic ages. The Ministry of Tourism in Gaza - also run by Hamas - is denying the site was damaged and insists the land will be repurposed for military purposes only "temporarily."" Repurposing for military purposes is a violation of the Geneva Conventions. HAMAS was the group that had it declared a UN Historical site- so who is at fault here???? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: Greg F. Date: 18 Apr 13 - 01:54 PM a hotel full of foreign tourists taking a hit from the next Israeli air strike. You gotta problem widdat, Don? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: Jack the Sailor Date: 18 Apr 13 - 02:20 PM I read enough to justify my comments Bruce. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: beardedbruce Date: 18 Apr 13 - 02:25 PM As do many of us that you pin the "Fox- must be shit" label on. SOME of us look at ALL sources, such as Fox, MSNBC, and Al Jazeera, as well as Israeli AND Palestinian sites, to try to determine the facts. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 18 Apr 13 - 03:28 PM Don, I did say tourism and prosperity would come AFTER Hamas called off the war. No rockets, no Israeli strikes, peace and prosperity. More rockets, more misery, poverty and death. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 19 Apr 13 - 07:11 AM ""So, Don T, you approve of the violation of international law because it is not as bad as what Israel is doing???"" No I don't approve. But given your complete acceptance of Israel's habit of killing Palestinians, I don't see that you have much cause to yell about some ancient stones being knocked over. If you can't see the difference there's not much point in talking to you. Don T. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 19 Apr 13 - 07:21 AM A three thousand year old antiquity. A Roman harbour. A World Heritage Site. "some ancient stones being knocked over." An act of vandalism, defended by a philistine, just because the desecrator is an enemy of Israel. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: beardedbruce Date: 19 Apr 13 - 07:54 AM "given your complete acceptance of Israel's habit of killing Palestinians," Given YOUR complete acceptance of rocket attacks on civilians in Israel ( a war crime) I don't see that you should be talking about "acceptance" of self defense. If an Israeli is throwing a bomb at me, I would shoot at them. You are giving ONLY the Palestinians the right to defend themselves- This shows you are a bigot and Anti-Semite ( in the traditional meaning of the word)- Different standards for those you support and those you disagree with. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 19 Apr 13 - 08:07 AM ""Given YOUR complete acceptance of rocket attacks on civilians in Israel ( a war crime) I don't see that you should be talking about "acceptance" of self defense."" More lies! I have repeatedly condemned the rockets. The difference between you and me is simply that I say there is blame on both sides, while you blame only the Palestinians. The Palestinans have killed how many Israelis? The Israelis have killed how many Palestinians? But you are incensed at Hamas damaging an historic site, while quite unmoved by the piles of rubbe that once were homes, schools and hospitals in Gaza. You really need to take another look at your priorities. And while you're at it learn to tell something vaguely approximating to the truth. You and Keith make a corkscrew look like the shortest distance between two points. Don T. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: bobad Date: 19 Apr 13 - 08:13 AM "...the piles of rubbe that once were homes, schools and hospitals in Gaza." If those homes, schools and hospitals were not being used as sites to store ordinance and launch rockets they would not be rubble. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: beardedbruce Date: 19 Apr 13 - 08:38 AM "while quite unmoved by the piles of rubbe that once were homes, schools and hospitals in Gaza." Which the Hamas rockets were fired fro, a WAR CRIME BY THE PALESTINIANS. Bring them to trial, and THEN criticise Israel. YOUR approval of war crimes DOES NOT DO YOU CREDIT. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 19 Apr 13 - 03:36 PM ""Which the Hamas rockets were fired fro, a WAR CRIME BY THE PALESTINIANS. Bring them to trial, and THEN criticise Israel."" Even you don't believe that all those buildings were being used by terrorists BB. So how many houses, schools and hospitals were smashed to rubble without justification because some Arab hating fighter jockey didn't want to bring his ammo home? If you say none you are both a liar and a fool. Don T. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: Greg F. Date: 19 Apr 13 - 04:24 PM Well, I dunno, Don - he could simply be a congenital idiot. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: Jack the Sailor Date: 19 Apr 13 - 04:55 PM How about prosecuting the accused war criminals on both sides. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 20 Apr 13 - 11:19 AM I'd grab that idea with both hands Jack. It's probably the most sensible suggestion I've heard to date. With Hamas, the Israeli government, and most of the Generals of the IDF in jail, the people of Israel and a negotiated Palestine could get on with their lives. You've got sod all chance of ever prosecuting any Israeli war criminal though, since the American donkey ridden by the AIPAC jockey will never allow it to happen. No, I'm afraid Palestine is a dream and its fate is slow extermination. Don T. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 20 Apr 13 - 11:27 AM schools and hospitals were smashed to rubble without justification because some Arab hating fighter jockey didn't want to bring his ammo home? Do you have any reason to accuse Israel of indiscriminate strikes in Gaza, or is that just a knee-jerk response from someone with an irrational hatred? Have you actually seen, read or heard something to justify it, or is the accusation completely made up? I have seen evidence posted on this forum that the proportion of civilian casualties there was not just extraordinarily low, but the lowest of any comparable action in all of military history. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: bobad Date: 20 Apr 13 - 11:39 AM "the American donkey ridden by the AIPAC jockey" Ah, I see you've updated "The Protocols" - nice work. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 20 Apr 13 - 01:52 PM Have you actually seen, read or heard something to refute it, or are you dumb enough to believe they absolutely never hit the wrong building. From the attitudes expressed by the soldiers we quoted (and you ignored) I'm damn sure they do. Don T. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: beardedbruce Date: 20 Apr 13 - 02:37 PM Don, " believe they absolutely never hit the wrong building." No, there are HONEST mistakes in EVERY war. But that number destroyed by Israeli mistakes is probably less than the number destroyed by Hamas in Gaza- the last article I read ( in Arab Press) had a picture of the remains of a house torn down by Hamas. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 20 Apr 13 - 03:13 PM See what I mean Jack? No possibility that there could exist an Israeli war criminal, according to our tunnel vision Arab haters. Don T. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: beardedbruce Date: 20 Apr 13 - 03:14 PM And no possibility that Israel is EVER right, according to our resident anti-Semites. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: beardedbruce Date: 20 Apr 13 - 03:27 PM Hamas aims rockets at civlians, Don says nothing ( but claims to not approve) Israel aims at the launch sites, and SOMETIMES hits civilians who are there ( since Hamas is commiting the war crime of launching from amid civilians), or sometimes misses the aimed at target , or makes mistakes and hits an incorrect target. THAT Don claims justifies the war crimes of Hamas. So, let us now talk about Dresden, and how England had no right at all to attack Germany at all, regardless of what Germany did in the declared war. Or is it ONLY JEWS that are not allowed to defend themselves, Don?? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 20 Apr 13 - 03:27 PM ""And no possibility that Israel is EVER right, according to our resident anti-Semites."" You are a bloody liar! AGAIN! No possibility of any balance from your side, so you have to distort what we say to justify your bigotry. Don T. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: Greg F. Date: 20 Apr 13 - 03:30 PM No, there are HONEST mistakes in EVERY war. And many more dishonest ones, Mr. Beard. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 21 Apr 13 - 05:34 PM Have you actually seen, read or heard something to refute it, or are you dumb enough to believe they absolutely never hit the wrong building. From the attitudes expressed by the soldiers we quoted (and you ignored) I'm damn sure they do. You have provided nothing to suggest that any Israeli strike was indiscriminate. Nothing Don. Goldstone himself said there was no targeting of civilians. You have a prejudice Don. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: Greg F. Date: 21 Apr 13 - 06:45 PM I think Beardie needs another dose of paregoric. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: beardedbruce Date: 22 Apr 13 - 03:32 PM Hamas aims rockets at civlians, Don says nothing ( but claims to not approve) Israel aims at the launch sites, and SOMETIMES hits civilians who are there ( since Hamas is commiting the war crime of launching from amid civilians), or sometimes misses the aimed at target , or makes mistakes and hits an incorrect target. THAT Don claims justifies the war crimes of Hamas. So, let us now talk about Dresden, and how England had no right at all to attack Germany at all, regardless of what Germany did in the declared war. Or is it ONLY JEWS that are not allowed to defend themselves, Don?? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 22 Apr 13 - 05:52 PM ""Israel aims at the launch sites, and SOMETIMES hits civilians who are there ( since Hamas is commiting the war crime of launching from amid civilians), or sometimes misses the aimed at target , or makes mistakes and hits an incorrect target. THAT Don claims justifies the war crimes of Hamas"" Another fucking lie from Mudcats most prolific liar! Don claimed nothing of the sort as you bloody well know you arse. Don claimed, with reason, only that there is evidence that Israel isn't as lilywhite perfect as you and your bigotted mates claim it to be, and you have to lie about what I have said because you cannot find an answer that is in the least credible. Don T. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 23 Apr 13 - 01:28 AM We do not claim it is "lily-white perfect." We just challenge your ludicrous accusations and ask for evidence. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 23 Apr 13 - 02:47 AM Recent example of ludicrous accusation with absolute nothing to substantiate or even justify it. Wholly and totally made up. A lie born of prejudice and hate. " schools and hospitals were smashed to rubble without justification because some Arab hating fighter jockey didn't want to bring his ammo home?" |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 23 Apr 13 - 04:56 AM What Israel and UN Gen Sec say. President Peres at meeting with UNSG Ban Ki-moon (20 Nov 2012): "There is no room for comparison between Israel and Hamas. Unfortunately they target civilians, we protect them. They hide amongst their civilian population, we are extremely careful to avoid hitting all civilians. Our army is working hard to avoid harming civilians. Israel left Gaza willingly and totally. Nobody forced us. Hamas is the only one responsible for the suffering in Gaza. Hamas can put an end to it. They can bring calm to their people when they stop shooting. Israel did not start this situation but Israel, like any other country, cannot allow her citizens to become a target. It is against the charter of the UN and basic human responsibility." PM Netanyahu at meeting with UNSG Ban Ki-moon (20 Nov 2012): "Israel is, I think, remarkable in that, when you consider the conditions that we're facing, I think that something almost without parallel in history is taking place. We're conducting these surgical operations against terrorists at a time when our own population is being bombarded by rocket attacks. Unfortunately, Mr. Secretary, Hamas and the Islamic Jihad, and the other terrorist groups, do not share your concern about our civilian casualties or about civilian casualties at all. They're deliberately and indiscriminately targeting our civilians and they deliberately hide behind their civilians. The terrorists target our children and they use their own children as human shields. They place explosives, weapons, other destructive weapons of any kind in schools, mosques, hospitals, universities. Targeting civilians and hiding behind civilians, as you well know is a double war crime. If we hope to make these tactics illegitimate, they should be condemned in the most forceful terms by all responsible members of the international community. The moment we draw symmetry between the victims of terror and the unintended casualties that result from legitimate military action against the terrorists, the minute that false symmetry is drawn, the terrorists win" UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon (20 Nov 2012): "Rockets have hit just outside Tel Aviv and Jerusalem and Israeli towns just outside Gaza, killing and injuring civilians. This is unacceptable, irresponsible and reckless. I strongly condemn these actions. Rocket attacks by Palestinian militants targeting Israel must cease immediately." "Rockets have hit areas just outside of Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, as well as Israeli towns near Gaza, killing and injuring civilians. I myself visited Sderot and these cities, and met many people, and I was able to witness myself how these people were living in fear and terror. This is unacceptable, irresponsible and reckless. I strongly condemn these actions. Rocket attacks by Palestinian militants targeting Israel must cease immediately." |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 23 Apr 13 - 05:42 AM "" schools and hospitals were smashed to rubble without justification because some Arab hating fighter jockey didn't want to bring his ammo home?"" Context is everything, isn't it dickhead? My actual words:- "Even you don't believe that all those buildings were being used by terrorists BB. So how many houses, schools and hospitals were smashed to rubble without justification because some Arab hating fighter jockey didn't want to bring his ammo home? If you say none you are both a liar and a fool." So, thank you for proving not only that you are both a liar and a fool, but that you cnnot ever be trusted to give an honest response to anything. In future I shal ignore whatever you say (as it isn't reliable) and respond only to those who make some effort at honesty. Don T. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 23 Apr 13 - 05:50 AM ""What Israel and UN Gen Sec say."" They would say that, wouldn't they? Plenty of evidence has been presented, much of it by Israelis, and it has been ignored or condemned as lies and antisemitism. Hamas tells a different story, as do the foreign workers in the Gaza Strip hospitals. Nobody believes a word of it, and most of America isn't allowed to hear that side of the story. Perez and Netanyahu? If they told me it was daytime, I'd look out the window expecting darkness. Don T. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 23 Apr 13 - 05:56 AM So Don, "how many houses, schools and hospitals were smashed to rubble without justification because some Arab hating fighter jockey didn't want to bring his ammo home?" Answer none. No substantiation or even justification. Wholly made up. Why Don? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: beardedbruce Date: 25 Apr 13 - 10:45 AM Still waiting for an answer, Don. Hamas aims rockets at civlians, Don says nothing ( but claims to not approve) Israel aims at the launch sites, and SOMETIMES hits civilians who are there ( since Hamas is commiting the war crime of launching from amid civilians), or sometimes misses the aimed at target , or makes mistakes and hits an incorrect target. THAT Don claims justifies the war crimes of Hamas. So, let us now talk about Dresden, and how England had no right at all to attack Germany at all, regardless of what Germany did in the declared war. Or is it ONLY JEWS that are not allowed to defend themselves, Don?? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: Greg F. Date: 25 Apr 13 - 10:58 AM That's right Beardy, everyone's out to get the Jews, and you're being personally persecuted because you're Jewish. Your paranoia is showing again. [PS- why don't you save yourself all that typing and simply call anyone who disagrees with you or has problems with Militant Zionism an anti-Semite??] |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: beardedbruce Date: 25 Apr 13 - 11:06 AM Another proven bigot heard from. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: Greg F. Date: 25 Apr 13 - 01:49 PM I'm disappointed, Beardy! Where's your usual apré-Greg tirade, profanity and name-calling? You feeling a bit under the weather today? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 25 Apr 13 - 05:38 PM ""Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: beardedbruce - PM Date: 25 Apr 13 - 10:45 AM Still waiting for an answer, Don."" If you can't be arsed to read the answers you prat, don't blame the other guy. It's your f**king problem!......:- Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: Don(Wyziwyg)T - PM Date: 22 Apr 13 - 05:52 PM ""Israel aims at the launch sites, and SOMETIMES hits civilians who are there ( since Hamas is commiting the war crime of launching from amid civilians), or sometimes misses the aimed at target , or makes mistakes and hits an incorrect target. THAT Don claims justifies the war crimes of Hamas"" Another fucking lie from Mudcats most prolific liar! Don claimed nothing of the sort as you bloody well know you arse. Don claimed, with reason, only that there is evidence that Israel isn't as lilywhite perfect as you and your bigotted mates claim it to be, and you have to lie about what I have said because you cannot find an answer that is in the least credible. Don T. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 26 Apr 13 - 02:41 AM We do not claim it is "lily-white perfect." No country is. It just does not target civilians, unlike Hamas. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: beardedbruce Date: 26 Apr 13 - 09:25 AM Still asking question, Don. YOU have never answered ( or please point to where you have. "Or is it ONLY JEWS that are not allowed to defend themselves, Don??" WAITING, SFB. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: beardedbruce Date: 26 Apr 13 - 09:50 AM Or maybe I should use your phrasebook- "Should Jews always let themselves be shot at, bombed, and be the targets of rockets without ever fighting back?" YES or NO? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: beardedbruce Date: 26 Apr 13 - 11:50 AM So, Don, will you declare that the Palestinians firing rockets " absolutely never" use human shields? If not, why have you ever complained about THAT war crime? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: Greg F. Date: 26 Apr 13 - 12:08 PM Yes Beardy, everyone knows that it is ONLY JEWS that are not allowed to defend themselves. After all, they're the one Chosen People. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: beardedbruce Date: 26 Apr 13 - 12:12 PM The ones that some here have chosen to place higher standards on - the definition of bigotry. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: beardedbruce Date: 26 Apr 13 - 12:55 PM Don, Since YOU are the ONLY one to state "No possibility that there could exist an Israeli war criminal" The rest of us have acknowledged some criminal acts by Israelis, but do not use them as an excuse as you do with Palestinian war crimes. YOU keep making absolute statements that we have never said- this makes you the leading member of our tunnel vision Israeli haters. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 26 Apr 13 - 12:56 PM ""The ones that some here have chosen to place higher standards on - the definition of bigotry."" I have never spoken about Jews on this thread as you well know. It is you that insists they be allowed to adhere to lower standards. I, on the other hand, have consistently demanded that THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT and THE I.D.F. be held to the same standards as you demand from the Arabs and Muslims you so detest. So who is the bigot here? If you cannot point to anything of mine in which I state that Jews should not be allowed to defend themselves, then you are the bigot. What is being done in their name by the government and armed forces of Israel has nothing to do with being Jewish, and even less to do with self defence! I'm sick of you stupid clowns wriggling out of admitting the truth by lying and libelling those of us who see through your pretence of reason. I'm out of here! You can continue to swim in your own shit and I hope you drown in it! Don T. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: beardedbruce Date: 26 Apr 13 - 01:27 PM " It is you that insists they be allowed to adhere to lower standards. " FALSE statement. I have merely asked that you apply THE SAME STANDARD THAT YOU APPLY TO ISRAEL to the Palestinians- which you have consistently failed to do. YOU have styated that " From: Don(Wyziwyg)T - PM Date: 14 Apr 13 - 08:19 AM Would you not agree John, that any such comparison, C, is irrelevant and invalid? The fact that there are, or were, worse examples of killing cannot be justification of the current actions of anybody." YET YOU THEN bring up Israeli actions EVERY TIME WE DISCUSS Palestinian ones, claiming they are worse. YOU have stated that " " when used to excuse the killings by Israel, is irrelevant and invalid?" BUT ARE VALID WHEN APPLIED TO Palestinian actions This is the bigotry that your posts have displayed. " If you cannot point to anything of mine in which I state that Jews should not be allowed to defend themselves, then you are the bigot." So, your answer to my question is that Jews CAN return fire at the rocket launchers? THAT is not what you have said before- after all, they are launching from "schools, hospitals, and homes" that YOU have stated are ONLY blown up by "Arab hating fighter jockey didn't want to bring his ammo home?" NO mention of being able to defend the Israeli "houses, schools and hospitals" that the Palestinian rockets are targeting. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Hamas destroys UN protected site From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 27 Apr 13 - 09:32 AM Off you go then Don. Never once known to make a specific criticism of Hamas. Even defended their vandalism of a World Heritage Site as just "knocking down a few old stones." Attacks Israel for just trying to stop its people being rocketed, but no specific criticism of those firing the rockets. No prejudice though Don, right? |
