BS: Islamic radicalism . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Jun 14 - 12:25 PM



Gatestone Institute

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Jun 14 - 11:36 AM

said to be, alleged, anonymous source, it is reported, could be, might be .................................... ad nauseum

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: bobad
Date: 12 Jun 14 - 11:24 AM

ISIS Threatens to Invade Jordan, 'Slaughter' King Abdullah

"The terrorists, who belong to The Islamic State of Iraq and Syria [ISIS -- known as DAESH in Arabic] and are said to be an offshoot of al-Qaeda, are planning to take their jihad to Jordan, Lebanon, the Gaza Strip and the Sinai Peninsula -- after having already captured large parts of Syria and Iraq, the sources said."

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4354/isis-jordan

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Jun 14 - 11:09 AM

As ever, your context forgets the thread you spilled it over from

I gave the link.
It takes half a minute then goes to the post and can be followed.
Try it Dave and see for yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Jun 14 - 09:42 AM

Musket did not understand the difference between Islam and Islamism

I find that highly unlikely, Keith. If the words were interchanged it was for good reason. I have no reason to doubt the intelligence of either Musket or yourself. Integrity maybe. Intelligence, no. :-)

Musket - What do you mean by confusing us with ST?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Musket
Date: 12 Jun 14 - 09:21 AM

True, every word.

As ever, your context forgets the thread you spilled it over from. Where you made a general link and I pointed out (as I reckon I may have done on the thread you have linked to) that Islamist is an affront to Islam as it makes a connection that is never made when Christians say Jesus told me to polish my guns.

I, like most decent people, am uncomfortable with the term Islamist as describing radicalisation of a superstition when it is, as all religious affairs, using gullible people to fight your battles for you. Only Muslims get to have terrorists named in their image.

Islamism has nothing to apologise for. It isn't in the business of apologising. Put back into the context you just brought your own quote out of, you were inferring that Islam has much to apologise for, and that is your true character boy...

When your vicar stands outside your church and apologises for Uganda, I'll ask the Imam on our chaplaincy team to apologise for Islamist atrocities.

Sanctimonious twat.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Jun 14 - 09:18 AM

Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 19 Dec 13 - 12:15 PM

Getting a bit desperate aren't we? "Err.. I didn't say Islam, I said Islamism, which is sooo fucking different, I'm going to point and laugh at you for being thick!"

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

We did laugh at you for being so ignorant of such basic terms.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Jun 14 - 09:02 AM

Musket did not understand the difference between Islam and Islamism and interchanged the words.
When Bobad and I were critical of Islamism he insisted that was an insult to all Muslims.

"Keith. When you said "they" with regard to Islam and having much to apologise for..."

I had said "Islamism has much to apologise for."
Musket maintained that it was the same.
Starts here.

thread.cfm?threadid=136372&messages=1844#3585366

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Jun 14 - 08:39 AM

I take it that you are speaking for yourself

No. I am also quite certain that there are criminals and extremists in all walks of life. 'We' is a polite device that I used in this case to mean those who do not know the difference. Apologies for not making it clear but I assumed that most people of average intelligence would realise that.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Jun 14 - 08:24 AM

This is where we could be going

Going? In many parts of the U.S, thanks to the hysterical fear-mongers its where we already ARE.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: bobad
Date: 12 Jun 14 - 08:05 AM

"This is where we could be going if we continue tarring all Muslims with the same brush."

I take it that you are speaking for yourself as I am certainly not doing so - I am clear on the distinction between ordinary Muslims and Islamists. If you are not it would behoove you to make the effort to study up on it.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Jun 14 - 07:38 AM

Read this.

A female Muslim journalists article on how she was treated in Texas. This is where we could be going if we continue tarring all Muslims with the same brush.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Jun 14 - 06:22 AM

I have certainly never equated them, so Richard will not be producing an example of me either.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 12 Jun 14 - 05:58 AM

And what's this about my "followers", for that matter, Richard? Followers? Didn't know I was being followed! Help! I'm being followed!

First scene of A Night At The Opera: Groucho & Margaret Dumont ~~ "Do you follow me, Mrs Claypool?" "Yes." "Well stop following me or I'll have you arrested!"

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Teribus
Date: 12 Jun 14 - 05:51 AM

"MtheGM, it is your posts, and those of your small coterie of followers, Teribillus, Akenhateon, KeiththeA, B-O-bad and Juicy Brucie, who persist in implying that ordinary Muslims are somehow similar to Islamists."

Really Richard? Care to supply with an example where I have done so.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Jun 14 - 04:11 AM

Janie had them pegged pretty accurately in the now deleted thread.

If it was the thread that I started, asking for an apology for Janies comments, Janie did not post to it. If it was the thread where Janie attempted to psycoanalyse everyone and reckoned I was capable of burning people to death, then that was closed and Janies comments were deleted.

Maybe you are barking up the wrong tree, bobad. Or maybe just barking...

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 12 Jun 14 - 03:51 AM

Actually, Ian: Keith is ten times the debater you will ever be. You show a glimmer of intelligence now & again; but can never resist undermining with some sort of smartarse crack or childish challenging-the-grown-ups naughty word. Keith, OTOH, selects a line of argument and sticks to it resolutely, without FWIW any recourse to what are generally regarded as obscene modes of expression. You really have nothing to patronise him about, believe me! Boot firmly on other foot... Only perhaps you are after all too thick to see it?

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Musket
Date: 12 Jun 14 - 03:30 AM

I wasn't defining women by a sexual organ. I was defining Keith by a term of reference.

D H Lawrence and I have a shared heritage to protect.

I think the moderators aren't too happy when I describe said term of reference in terms of density.

Anyway, it is a term of endearment surely? After all, you'd never see me offering Akenaton similar jocular names? The thought of his odious views as represented on this website being shared by anybody who wishes to be taken seriously isn't one I would happily contemplate.

Keith however is just daft as a brush, and it's rather funny to goad him. Some of the things he comes out with make up for his lack of debating skills.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Jun 14 - 03:17 AM

Come on Richard, surely even an old legal dinosaur like you can tell the difference in using the word as a term of abuse and liking women.

It is grave insult to women everywhere, very disrespectful, they do not deserve to be defined by one organ of reproduction.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: bobad
Date: 11 Jun 14 - 07:00 PM

Actually, most of the people Richard so cutesily names in his post go out of their way to make the distinction between ordinary Muslims and Islamists. It seems to me that the ones who do not are the usual cabal who get their woodies from belittling and name calling those with whom they disagree. Janie had them pegged pretty accurately in the now deleted thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: bobad
Date: 11 Jun 14 - 05:15 PM

Aw Greg, yer such a sap....that's why I loves ya.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Jun 14 - 04:59 PM

Nor have you implied that they're dissimilar.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: bobad
Date: 11 Jun 14 - 04:53 PM

I have never implied that ordinary Muslims are similar to Islamists.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Jun 14 - 03:40 PM

I like cunts.

MtheGM, it is your posts, and those of your small coterie of followers, Teribillus, Akenhateon, KeiththeA, B-O-bad and Juicy Brucie, who persist in implying that ordinary Muslims are somehow similar to Islamists. You will find, if you bother to think, that the Islamists, while asserting that theirs is the true voice of Islam, also assert that non-militant Muslims (the vast majority) verge on apostasy or at least delinquency.

That implication of yours is the worldview that serves to radicalise non-radical Muslims. By all means defend against - indeed go on the offensive against - the Islamists, but not because of their religion, but their atrocities. Tarring my dentist, who goes by the name "Sharon" to make life easier for her dimmer patients, with the same brush will be counterproductive. I forgive her for prescribing metronidazole for my duff teeth as a first choice if I have a really boozy festival planned.

Curious that no-one seems to care whether vibrators are haram or not. I'd have thought it was a vital social distinction these days.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Jun 14 - 03:32 PM

I think there have been too many C***s already?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 11 Jun 14 - 03:10 PM

Three posts back, Musket's protest at having a post deleted because it contained the word "cunt" has now in its turn been deleted. All will know that my exchanges on this forum with Musket are not invariably of the most affable; but I must ask what the hell is going on here. I myself forswore the use of objectionable, so-called after the Lady Chat Trial all those years ago, "4-letter words", as being rude and counterproductive and manifesting weakness rather than strength in argument. But they have, till now, unquestionably been part of everyday life & everyday posting on this forum.

Who has suddenly decided they are no longer acceptable? And why? Whoever this somewhat prim mod is had better go back over years-and-years-and-years-worth of threads & see how much he/she will be called on to delete in the interests of consistency! Won't be an awful lot left, I suspect.

Lovers of freedom cry --- "Bring back Musket's 'cunts'!"

And if this post gets deleted, I shall scream the house down!

~Michael~

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Jun 14 - 03:07 PM

My post of 12:55pm, was in response to an obscene post from Ian which has subsequently removed.....could someone kindly remove my response.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Jun 14 - 03:02 PM

Looks like the Islamists have taken Sirte, Saddam's home town and are moving to take Baghdad.....Looks like Michael has been bang on the button.
The Iraqi Army "melted away", after all the money we spent to train them....Crocodile tears from President Obama's administration, but re-engagement is out of the question.

Soon everyone will be asking "why did we kill Gadaffi?"
"why didn't we support Assad?"

But as Michael has said, "its too late now"

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: bobad
Date: 11 Jun 14 - 02:55 PM

"To criticize a person for their race is manifestly irrational and ridiculous, but to criticize their religion, that is a right. That is a freedom. The freedom to criticize ideas, any ideas - even if they are sincerely held beliefs - is one of the fundamental freedoms of society. A law which attempts to say you can criticize and ridicule ideas as long as they are not religious ideas is a very peculiar law indeed.

It all points to the promotion of the idea that there should be a right not to be offended. But in my view the right to offend is far more important than any right not to be offended. The right to ridicule is far more important to society than any right not to be ridiculed because one in my view represents openness - and the other represents oppression"

― Rowan Atkinson

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Jun 14 - 12:55 PM

Sounds about par for the course!

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 11 Jun 14 - 10:41 AM

Re your point 1, Richard: it is the Islamists, not any of us, who claim to 'equate' them; so better take your objections to the 'equation' up with them, hadn't you?, and see where it gets you.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Jun 14 - 09:53 AM

Look.

1. The equation of Islam and Islamic with Islamist is defective.

2. Islamist atrocities abound.

3. Parts of Sharia law are offensive - but are seldom applied outside primitive states.

4. It's a lawyer's job to help his client achieve the result the client wants (by lawful means) and drafting wills to achieve an effect that conforms to Sharia law may be part of that objective, but many parts of Sharia inheritance law would be ineffective if challenged in a UK court pursuant to the Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependants) Act 1975. Similarly family law, to an extent, must match English standards.

5. Did you know that vibrators are haram (certainly in the case of internal use and maybe more generically)? That's most upsetting!

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Jun 14 - 09:41 AM

The Independent, March 2014

"The plea from the (ISIS)rebel fighter comes as UK authorities are becoming increasingly concerned at the number of British citizens travelling to Syria to join extremist groups in the three year old civil war. British and other non-Syrians travelling to Syria tend to gravitate towards al-Qa'ida-type groups that espouse global jihad.

The total number of British participants in the conflict is estimated to be in the "hundreds", with as many as 20 thought to have died in the fighting. Charles Farr, the Home Office's terror chief, warned recently that Brits travelling to Syria represented the "the biggest challenge" to the security services since the 2001 Twin Tower attacks"
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/british-fighters-in-syria-urge-others-to-join-them-9205428.html

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Jun 14 - 09:07 AM

You (intentionally?) miss Keith's point, Ian.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Musket
Date: 11 Jun 14 - 08:14 AM

Some commentators were saying that before Rambo and his stupid mates dived in a few years ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Jun 14 - 07:31 AM

Remember the speech that instigated this thread, about militant Islam being the greatest threat to world peace?

BBC today.
Middle East newspapers are horrified by the fall of Iraq's second largest city, Mosul, to the jihadist Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIS), known pejoratively in Arabic as "Daesh".
Some commentators believe that if nothing is done Iraq may be destroyed, with serious consequences for the region.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: bobad
Date: 11 Jun 14 - 06:03 AM

Naming Europe's New Anti-Semitism

Europeans are reluctant to describe the Brussels museum shooting as an anti-Semitic hate crime. It's time to end this dangerous state of denial.

"And where are the imams?

Where are the young Muslims of whom we never tire of saying that they have nothing to do with this nasty business?

What do the imams need to happen before forcefully condemning, once and for all, the insult to the Koran, the blasphemy, that is the act attributed to Nemmouche?

And what do young Muslims need to hear before organizing, rising up in protest, and, one would hope, chanting with one voice, "We are all Brussels Jews in danger of being killed"?"

Bernard-Henri Lévy The Daily Beast

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 11 Jun 14 - 03:46 AM

First kneeling on the block if there is a God...

Amazon sell Islam proof shelters you can build in your garden to protect you in the eventuality of Islam.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 11 Jun 14 - 03:35 AM

And you reckon I'm 'ranting', do you?, Mr I-Forget-Which-½wit-Said-It.

In your dreams. If I wanted to rant, believe me you'd know you were being ranted at. Sweetest of sweet reason is all you've had from me so far.

Still OK OK OK yes yes yes. So go on walking complacently right into your own, and the world's, destruction, you self-satisfied lot of oh-so-right-thinking bores. It's only happening in Riyadh & Lahore & Kano and not in Bradford or Birmingham or Leicester yet so that's all right then...

Hope you all enjoy the ummah when it comes. The oh-such-fun public beheadings and stonings and canings...

Have fun ~~

I won't be there...

☠~M~☠

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Jun 14 - 03:28 AM

Huffingtom Posts last month.
"In a letter to The Times (£), General al-Basheer, chief of staff of the supreme military council, the commanding body of the rebel Free Syrian Army (FSA), said the "majority" of foreign ISIS fighters were from the UK, with others from France, Germany and Belgium.
He said: "We, the Syrian people now experience beheadings, crucifixions, beatings, murders, outdated methods of treating women, an obsolete approach to governing society. Many who participate in these activities are British."


This is the group that is taking control of large parts of Iraq including major cities, as well as Syria, and is said to threaten the whole region.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 11 Jun 14 - 03:17 AM

The "nearest that Musket knows" eh?

Well, there now; everybody knows that "Musket" is simply one of the pseudonyms of The Lord God Almighty: so there is conclusive; absolutely world-shattering, forever-settling, totally incontrovertible....

☺☺ ☻☻ ☠☠ 〠〠 teeheeheeheehee. He really is a caution, innit!

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 11 Jun 14 - 03:05 AM

There seems to be an opinion floating that normal law abiding citizens who contribute to society are terrorist sleepers if they get together and pray on a Friday but not if they get together and pray on a Sunday.

The nearest I know to under cover Muslims is a bloke I used to work with who enjoyed a pint and was rather partial to bacon butties. It wasn't so much that he was boutique pick n mix, although he evidently was, but that he could recite a get out clause from The Holy Q'ran that said in the land of the infidel, you can lapse to blend in and be accepted.

Presumably that's how our Christians get to eat pork and prawns, though having never been one, I am not the best suited to say.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Jun 14 - 02:47 AM

Actually - After re-reading the article I realise that Professor Askari is talking sense. He is pointing out that the ideal of Islam is more like the free western countries than the oppressive regimes that incubate the radicalism.

Bobads selective C&P are the weasel words, not the professors.

Bad Bobad.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Jun 14 - 02:42 AM

"Most faithful to the values". What does that even mean? What are the values of the Koran? Any different to the values of the Bible? Both parts? What a set of weasel words.

Like the WW News article though, bobad. :-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Teribus
Date: 11 Jun 14 - 01:53 AM

"The country in the world most faithful to the values of the Koran is Ireland"

Halal Guinness anyone?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Jun 14 - 01:52 AM

"Malmö, Sweden's third largest city"
"THE MOST RACIST COUNTRY IN EUROPE"
Racism and xenophobia have been reported and investigated in Sweden.[1] According to the European Network Against Racism, skin color, ethnic/religious background have significant impact on an individual's opportunities in the labor market, affecting mainly Roma, Blacks, Muslims and Jews.[2] Some ethnic minorities, especially Jews, are also at larger risk to face threats and violence.[3]
Further information: Islamophobia
The report Racism and Xenophobia in Sweden by the Board of Integration state that Muslims are exposed to the most religious harassment in Sweden. Almost 40% of the interviewed said they had witnessed verbal abuse directed at Muslims.[4]
Sweden is home to several white supremacist and neo-Nazi organizations, including:
Legion Wasa
Swedish Resistance Movement
Former organizations include:
National Socialist Front
White Aryan Resistance
Antisemitism[edit]
After Germany and Austria, Sweden has the highest rate of antisemitic incidents in Europe, though the Netherlands reports a higher rate of antisemitism in some years.[5] A government study in 2006 estimated that 15% of Swedes agree with the statement: "The Jews have too much influence in the world today".[6] 5% of the total adult population and 39% of adult Muslims "harbour systematic antisemitic views".[6] The former prime minister Göran Persson described these results as "surprising and terrifying". However, the rabbi of Stockholm's Orthodox Jewish community, Meir Horden, said that "It's not true to say that the Swedes are anti-Semitic. Some of them are hostile to Israel because of the military occupation and oppression of Palestinian territories."[7]
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: bobad
Date: 10 Jun 14 - 09:41 PM

FOLLOWING the publication of a study which has declared Ireland 'the most Muslim country in the world', many Irish people are making the big switch to Islam.

Ireland, according to this latest study from George Washington University, is the country most faithful to the values of the Koran, putting the already uncertain future of the Catholic Church in Ireland in further doubt.

The switch, which is being welcomed by many senior figures within Islam in Ireland, will see Irish Catholics make huge savings. The Catholic Church's hidden fees and charges in relation to guilt and shame have given many food for thought.

"Ah it's great really, it's more convenient as there is a mosque close to me here and in fairness it's about time I read a new book," shared Clonskeagh resident Mark Chambers, just one of thousands of people now looking to Islam to be their main religious faith provider.

Following religious deregulation in Ireland, other faiths have been slow to enter the marketplace but now with this latest study Islam is set to make a big push for the Irish markets.

Some people are still smarting from the lengthy and corrupt process which saw the Catholic Church awarded the sole religious faith contract upon the signing of the constitution in 1937.

"Ah it's not much of a change for and kids but I think it's time for that switch," shared Mary Cronin, a mother of five, "they have Ramadan, we have Lent. They go off to Mecca, I sent my aunty Joan to Lourdes last year for her gammy toe. We'll hardly notice the difference but the Catholic Church's customer service is just appalling, ya know?"

However, some were weary of changing religious providers. "I haven't read the small print in the contract but I heard someone say that if you cancel your contract with Islam, they give you a Fatwa? Like how would that effect my credit rating with the banks?" inquired a puzzled Cillian Ruan.

Irish people who have already made the big switch listed among their reasons for changing was the fact they would now be the best at Islam rather than the worst at Catholicism.

The Catholic Church are already working hard to try and retain their numbers with new initiatives such as upgrading women to second class citizens, a 24-hour confession service and offering all masses in 3D.

WW News

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Jun 14 - 09:05 PM

Great, Boo- according to one jackass who cites no evidence. Par for the course for your nugatory cut-n-pastes.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: bobad
Date: 10 Jun 14 - 08:33 PM

The country in the world most faithful to the values of the Koran is Ireland according to an Iranian-born academic at George Washingon University in the US. Next are Denmark, Sweden and the UK.

In a BBC interview, Hossein Askari, Professor of International Business and International Affairs at George Washington University said a study by himself and colleague Dr Scheherazde S Rehman, also rates Israel (27) as being more compliant with the ideals of the Koran than any predominantly Muslim country.

Not a single majority Muslim country made the top 25 and no Arab country is in the top 50.

The Irish Times

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic radicalism . . .
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jun 14 - 07:43 PM

If there is real terrorism in this world, then it must be most acutely felt by the hundreds of millions of innocent, peace-loving, hard-working Muslims who want nothing to do with that exceptionally tiny minority of nutters in their midst. They are the victims, not the smug westerners who see ever such a vague threat to their well-heeled, cosseted, oh so Christian lives.