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Tech: ABC converter help

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gillymor 21 May 17 - 10:41 AM
FreddyHeadey 21 May 17 - 11:26 AM
gillymor 21 May 17 - 11:28 AM
leeneia 21 May 17 - 11:39 PM
Stanron 21 May 17 - 11:52 PM
Jack Campin 22 May 17 - 05:09 AM
GUEST,Jon 22 May 17 - 05:32 AM
FreddyHeadey 22 May 17 - 06:22 AM
gillymor 22 May 17 - 07:08 AM
GUEST,Dave Hunt 22 May 17 - 07:31 AM
GUEST,Simon 22 May 17 - 02:55 PM
gillymor 22 May 17 - 03:02 PM
FreddyHeadey 22 May 17 - 03:10 PM
gillymor 22 May 17 - 03:21 PM
Stanron 22 May 17 - 05:49 PM
GUEST,Grishka 23 May 17 - 10:53 AM
Stanron 23 May 17 - 11:06 AM
GUEST,Grishka 23 May 17 - 02:52 PM
Stanron 23 May 17 - 03:35 PM
GUEST,Grishka 23 May 17 - 06:03 PM
GUEST,Jon 24 May 17 - 04:13 AM
GUEST,Grishka 24 May 17 - 04:39 AM
GUEST,Jon 24 May 17 - 04:55 AM
Tootler 24 May 17 - 07:44 AM
Stanron 24 May 17 - 08:24 AM
GUEST,Grishka 24 May 17 - 09:06 AM
Stanron 24 May 17 - 10:17 AM
Tootler 24 May 17 - 10:35 AM
Stanron 24 May 17 - 10:48 AM
Tootler 24 May 17 - 10:59 AM
Tootler 24 May 17 - 11:01 AM
GUEST,Jon 24 May 17 - 06:16 PM
GUEST,Grishka 25 May 17 - 03:22 PM
Joe Offer 25 May 17 - 04:05 PM
gillymor 26 May 17 - 08:20 AM
Jack Campin 26 May 17 - 08:27 AM
gillymor 26 May 17 - 08:40 AM
Jack Campin 26 May 17 - 10:46 AM
GUEST,J on 27 May 17 - 05:23 PM
gillymor 29 May 17 - 07:32 AM
Jack Campin 29 May 17 - 10:03 AM
FreddyHeadey 29 May 17 - 02:55 PM
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Subject: Tech: ABC converter help
From: gillymor
Date: 21 May 17 - 10:41 AM

Anyone else having problems with the Abc converter at mandolintab.net/abcconverter? I'm getting an error message when trying to convert an abc, even ones that have worked in the past.


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Subject: RE: Tech: ABC converter help
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 21 May 17 - 11:26 AM

Yes.

K:Em,#
L:1/8
M:4/4
E2D2E4/G4FEE2/B3AB2A2/F6F2/
G2G2F2A2/G2FEF2D2/E2G2A2F2E8//


Result
!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//IETF//DTD HTML 2.0//EN">
html>head>
title>400 Bad Request /title>
/head>body>
h1>Bad Request/h1>
p>Your browser sent a request that this server could not understand.

/p>
p>Additionally, a 400 Bad Request
error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request./p>
hr>
address>Apache Server at box759.bluehost.com Port 80 /address>
/body>/html>


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Subject: RE: Tech: ABC converter help
From: gillymor
Date: 21 May 17 - 11:28 AM

That's the one I'm getting.


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Subject: RE: Tech: ABC converter help
From: leeneia
Date: 21 May 17 - 11:39 PM

Try putting X:1 on the first line of your ABC. I don't know what it means, but it often solves the problem.


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Subject: RE: Tech: ABC converter help
From: Stanron
Date: 21 May 17 - 11:52 PM

leeneia wrote: Try putting X:1 on the first line of your ABC. I don't know what it means, but it often solves the problem.


I just tried

X: 1
T: Black Joak
R: jig
M: 6/8
L: 1/16
K: Gmaj
D2|:D4G2 G4G2 | A4A2 A3GA3 | B3cB B3AG2|A3BA2 A3GF2|G6 E4D2 | D3EF2 G3 :|
B2|: B4d2 d3ed2| e3fg2 d4B2 | B4d2 d3ed2| e3fg2 d4B2 |c3ca2 B3Bg2 |
|A3BA2 A3BA2 | B3cB2 B3AG2 | A3BA2 A3GF2 | G6 E4D2 | D3EF2 G3 :|

It's got the 'X: 1' but it failed in the mandolintab site. I now use an ABC program on my PC. With Windows I used to use ABC Navigator. Now on Linux I use a program called ABCJ. It works fine for single line music.


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Subject: RE: Tech: ABC converter help
From: Jack Campin
Date: 22 May 17 - 05:09 AM

The other two converters listed on my home page

http://www.campin.me.uk/

still work.

If anybody knows of others, please let me know.


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Subject: RE: Tech: ABC converter help
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 22 May 17 - 05:32 AM

"Try putting X:1 on the first line of your ABC. I don't know what it means, but it often solves the problem."

I don't think it's the format of the user inputted abc causing this.

Has anyone contacted Simon to let him know there is a problem?


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Subject: RE: Tech: ABC converter help
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 22 May 17 - 06:22 AM

yes.


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Subject: RE: Tech: ABC converter help
From: gillymor
Date: 22 May 17 - 07:08 AM

Thanks for that,Freddy.


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Subject: RE: Tech: ABC converter help
From: GUEST,Dave Hunt
Date: 22 May 17 - 07:31 AM

The Mandolin tab has been taken down by the person running it....too much spam etc
Jack's are good


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Subject: RE: Tech: ABC converter help
From: GUEST,Simon
Date: 22 May 17 - 02:55 PM

Hello everyone,

it's not true that I have taken down the abc converter. Unfortunately I have no clue as to why the converter suddenly doesn't seem to work anymore. I haven't worked on my website for several years now, so I'm not really sure if I can get this fixed.

Best wishes,

Simon


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Subject: RE: Tech: ABC converter help
From: gillymor
Date: 22 May 17 - 03:02 PM

Whatever the outcome,Simon, thank you for that excellent online tool.


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Subject: RE: Tech: ABC converter help
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 22 May 17 - 03:10 PM

Well Simon, thanks for having it there for the last couple of years while I've known it. It has been great.

And thanks Jack for the links on your site.


Sorry gillymor, you're going to be the mudcatter who gets the blame for breaking it! ;-)


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Subject: RE: Tech: ABC converter help
From: gillymor
Date: 22 May 17 - 03:21 PM

Well, Freddy, everyone can send their ABC's to me and I'll convert them by hand. No guarantees on the lead time.


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Subject: RE: Tech: ABC converter help
From: Stanron
Date: 22 May 17 - 05:49 PM

A bit of thread drift here. I'm using Linux Mint. I've got ABC Navigator running through Wine but I get no sound out of it. I can export a midi file and this plays in the un-named system Midi player. Following the, Options, Preferences, Midi path in ABC Navigator I get that the Midi Out Device is 'Midi Through Port-0'. Is there a way to redirect this to the system Midi player?


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Subject: RE: Tech: ABC converter help
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 23 May 17 - 10:53 AM

Simon, if you are sure you changed nothing whatsoever, and if we assume that your site used to work with the same browsers with which it now fails, it must have been your web hoster. For example, they may have switched to newer versions of something.

Such services are very welcome, e.g. for those who want a quick look at the sheet music for ABC postings to Mudcat. However, regular ABC users should run the software on their own computer.

Stanron, have you tried other Windows MIDI software with your Wine? If it works, ask the ABC community. If not, Linux or Wine people may be able to help.


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Subject: RE: Tech: ABC converter help
From: Stanron
Date: 23 May 17 - 11:06 AM

GUEST,Grishka wrote: Stanron, have you tried other Windows MIDI software with your Wine? If it works, ask the ABC community. If not, Linux or Wine people may be able to help.


I've got Sibelius 3 working. It too defaults to 'Midi through Port 0', which doesn't work. But the Kontact Player, that comes with it, works fine. At least for a while.


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Subject: RE: Tech: ABC converter help
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 23 May 17 - 02:52 PM

Stanron, the Kontact Player plays its own sound samples and thus does not use any system MIDI.

Conclusion, like I said before: your question is about Wine or Linux or Mint. These products have large user forums, so you may be lucky there. Please keep us informed about what you find out.

Generally, information about ABC software running on Linux will be welcome here, preferably working without Wine.


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Subject: RE: Tech: ABC converter help
From: Stanron
Date: 23 May 17 - 03:35 PM

GUEST,Grishka wrote: Generally, information about ABC software running on Linux will be welcome here, preferably working without Wine.


I have two programs which play and edit/enter ABC files. ABCJ and Five Line Skink. ABCJ only allows single line scores. Five line Skink accepts multiple line scores. They are both rather quirky with regard to acceptable syntax. I find I have to do loads of editing to get files to work. ABC Navigator is more developed and has more features, The looping feature should be useful for learning new tunes.


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Subject: RE: Tech: ABC converter help
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 23 May 17 - 06:03 PM

Thanks, Stanron. I will try FLS one day on my Linux system. For the time being, I will stick to ABCExplorer on Windows, but I have the strong feeling, or hope at least, that the days of Windows are numbered. The latest ransomware scandal may have tolled the bell.

A pity that each ABC software seems to be "quirky with regard to acceptable syntax" in different ways. If developers find the original language description impractical (- why?), they had best emulate the tool abc2xml.py which ties ABC to MusicXML in a very efficient way. (The Yahoo discussion group formerly favoured by Chris Walshaw seems pretty quiet for quite a while, which may indicate that we cannot hope for much progress.)


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Subject: RE: Tech: ABC converter help
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 24 May 17 - 04:13 AM

Griska, But what has changed is a mystery.

As of last night, I'm trying to help out and can try to explain the problem as I see it.

The code (for historical folkinfo reasons) is split between a user front end and a behind the scenes converter. The front end makes a http post to the converter and displays the returned html. I'm pretty sure that is where the error message is coming from.

With this set up, I can run Simon's front end code on my own local server and post to Simon's behind the scenes converter at mandolintab. Doing this is working perfectly but something seems to get mangled when the front end code runs on mandolintab..

I'm hoping we will be able to find some configuration difference between the servers that will account for this.

If all else fails, we can try to eliminate this split and hidden post and things should appear the same to users. While not an enormous task it's not something to "get done in 5 minutes" either.


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Subject: RE: Tech: ABC converter help
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 24 May 17 - 04:39 AM

Hi Jon, I am now learning that mandolintab uses the code formerly used by folkinfo, and you are the programmer. Correct?

If I am not mistaken, all "front end code" runs in the user's browser, never on mandolintab. You probably mean "the front end code as created by mandolintab", which seems to differ from what you call "Simon's front end code" that runs alright on your own machine. You call it "my own local server" but seem to use it as a "client" (is that the same as "front end"?).

In other words: if you have a front end that works correctly with the existing mandolintab.net web server script, it should be possible to modify it step-by-step to meet Simon's present requirements. You will probably find some subtle error that may have been tolerated by an older version of PHP. No redesign should be necessary.

Sorry that I cannot be more specific, because although I have been successful in some easy JavaScript programming, I am by no means an expert.


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Subject: RE: Tech: ABC converter help
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 24 May 17 - 04:55 AM

Grishka, my closing of folkino was rather rapid. Simon came forward and offered to host the converter part for others on his site. It is mostly my sprawl of code.

No Javascript. Just php that can be set to run on different servers, eg. I could serve the page you see from my serer at jf.com and get the conversion done on your server at grishkaka.org.


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Subject: RE: Tech: ABC converter help
From: Tootler
Date: 24 May 17 - 07:44 AM

I run Linux Mint. I've installed MuseScore. That has an abc converter that so far has worked well. I've had problems with Midi playback on Linux over time but MuseScore plays back OK. Make sure you get version 2, though

MuseScore is available for Windows and Mac as well. It's open source and available for free. https://musescore.org


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Subject: RE: Tech: ABC converter help
From: Stanron
Date: 24 May 17 - 08:24 AM

Tootler wrote: I run Linux Mint. I've installed MuseScore. That has an abc converter that so far has worked well
Wow. I'm on Mint too. I've just opened Musescore and can't find any reference to ABC, neither importing, exporting, opening or saving. Which version do you use and how do you do it?


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Subject: RE: Tech: ABC converter help
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 24 May 17 - 09:06 AM

MuseScore runs natively in Linux; no problem with MIDI output that I know of. Last time I installed it, it was able to import ABC only via a web service (!) which ran abc2xml on its server - not what I would use. Rather, I run abc2xml.py on my local PC and load its output (MusicXML) into MuseScore, Sibelius, or Finale etc.

Either way, abc2xml is extremely useful and thus likely to be the main authority on ABC syntax. It claims to agree with abcm2ps and the original language definition in most aspects, but does not mention Five Line Skink etc.

Note that there is also a converse software xml2abc.py by the same author. Thus we can use MuseScore to edit music, export it to MusicXML, then convert the result to ABC to post it to Mudcat etc. Still, a slim editor like ABCExplorer has its merits, for those quick hacks that ABC is typically used for.


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Subject: RE: Tech: ABC converter help
From: Stanron
Date: 24 May 17 - 10:17 AM

I've just found this site.

http://abc2xml.appspot.com/

It converts ABC to MusicXML. The saved results can be opened in Musescore. It's all pretty painless as a process, but a bit long winded. I suppose the editing has to be correct in the first place and an online forum suggests it will only do one file at a time, not a song book. I've not found an equivalent for xml2abc.py.


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Subject: RE: Tech: ABC converter help
From: Tootler
Date: 24 May 17 - 10:35 AM

I have MuseScore 2 and I'm running Mint 17.3. The version of MuseScore in the Software Centre is 1.3. It could be that MuseScore 2 is available in Mint 18. You will need to check.

You can download MuseScore2 from the website as an appimage which can be run from your home page. (or you can install a ppa for v2) There's instructions for downloading and running the appimage on the website, just click on the download link. You can install the appimage by running from the terminal with the option -install and this copies it to the file system and relates musescore .mscz files to the program. I had problems with saving preferences to customise the program but I found that you had to run it as root (Terminal and "sudo musescore") to save preferences but be careful if you run at as root and save a file you've created you will have to do a chown to access it as yourself.

ABC input is available in MuseScore2 via the Plugins menu. You have to check the "abc_import" in the Plugin Manager, Click OK then open the Plugin menu again and the ABC import will be available as a menu item. Unfortunately it doesn't save when you close MuseScore so you have to do both actions every time you run MuseScore.

Accessing the ABC import plugin brings up a text box where you can paste in an abc or there's a button to link it to an abc file in your filestore.


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Subject: RE: Tech: ABC converter help
From: Stanron
Date: 24 May 17 - 10:48 AM

Thanks Tootler. With the help of Grishka I've now got it figured. I'm on Mint 17.3 and have got Musescore 2.0.3 as well.

ABCJ will do editing on the fly, that is as you edit you see the score change, but it will not do more than one part at a time. It will do song books.

Five Line Skink will do multi parts but you have to save to see editing changes. They both play the tunes and are easy to use.

Cheers

Stan.


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Subject: RE: Tech: ABC converter help
From: Tootler
Date: 24 May 17 - 10:59 AM

Grishka wrote: MuseScore runs natively in Linux; no problem with MIDI output that I know of. Last time I installed it, it was able to import ABC only via a web service (!) which ran abc2xml on its server - not what I would use. Rather, I run abc2xml.py on my local PC and load its output (MusicXML) into MuseScore, Sibelius, or Finale etc.

It tells you to ensure you have an internet connection when you run it but I have found it works well and smoothly. I reckon if you want to work offline, then your solution is better but if your on line, then you're adding what seems to me an unnecessary step.

The xml2abc looks useful. I'll have to look into that as I could do with an abc creator for some of my own tunes.


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Subject: RE: Tech: ABC converter help
From: Tootler
Date: 24 May 17 - 11:01 AM

before anyone picks me up on my grammar, the "your" in the second paragraph should have been "you're". Should have previewed before submitting.


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Subject: RE: Tech: ABC converter help
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 24 May 17 - 06:16 PM

(When it's working...) The abc converter at mandolintab does try to handle abc to fro musicxml although I'm not sure how up to date the relevant python programs are.

MusicXML can simply be entered instead of abc in the text box. The "Output Text" option lets you chose whether what is returned there is abc, partwise or timewise musicxml.


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Subject: RE: Tech: ABC converter help
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 25 May 17 - 03:22 PM

@ Tootler 24 May 17 - 10:59 AM

Reasons why I do not like plugged-in web services:
  1. The provider can switch to new versions which behave differently - the user cannot switch back.
  2. The provider may withdraw the function, e.g. being bankrupt or no longer interested in a good reputation
  3. They force us to reveal our data to the provider, who may profile us; for example, an online spellchecker will inevitably betray everything we write.
  4. The provider may one day start charging a small fee, then a larger one etc.
  5. They force us to be online and cause traffic (- the least problem at the moment, but just wait!).
Such doubtful "services" seem to be the future of sophisticated and expensive software anyway. Users must be conscious that this amounts to trusting the provider completely and entirely and for as long as they need their underlying data. While I have no reason to mistrust that abc2xml service, I would like to warn against such "services" in general, all the more since abc2xml is a tiny script that can easily be run locally, and a plugin calling it.

If you now say that installing any software at home also means that we trust the source from which we obtain it - you are quite right. But at least we can access the programme files, so that we (i.e. our anti-virus software) may be able to find out whether they spy on us. I would prefer to have much more control over the type of actions I allow any software or "service" I use.


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Subject: RE: Tech: ABC converter help
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 May 17 - 04:05 PM

Jack Campin has three online ABC converters listed on his Web page. Two of the three work for me. Here are the links:

For all of them, you just paste some ABC into a box and it'll give you both staff notation and a playable MIDI file. (When using your browser as an ABC application in this way, set it to display the ABC with a fixed width font like Courier).


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Subject: RE: Tech: ABC converter help
From: gillymor
Date: 26 May 17 - 08:20 AM

Those other converters work well but don't seem to have the ability to produce mandolin tablature in pdf. form that mandolintab.net does (or did).


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Subject: RE: Tech: ABC converter help
From: Jack Campin
Date: 26 May 17 - 08:27 AM

Colin Hume's one does - look at the instructions at the top of the page.

It doesn't seem to be as configurable as the mandolintab one, though.


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Subject: RE: Tech: ABC converter help
From: gillymor
Date: 26 May 17 - 08:40 AM

Hume's converter let's you make PDF's but I didn't see anything that produced tablature.
I hit all the buttons but perhaps I missed something.


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Subject: RE: Tech: ABC converter help
From: Jack Campin
Date: 26 May 17 - 10:46 AM

OK, not something I'd ever have thought to look for.


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Subject: RE: Tech: ABC converter help
From: GUEST,J on
Date: 27 May 17 - 05:23 PM

Simon may follow up on this but mandolintab.net should be working again.


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Subject: RE: Tech: ABC converter help
From: gillymor
Date: 29 May 17 - 07:32 AM

It seems to be working again. Many thanks to whoever's responsible for fixing (and providing us with) this wonderful resource.


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Subject: RE: Tech: ABC converter help
From: Jack Campin
Date: 29 May 17 - 10:03 AM

I've updated my list and added another one.

There may be more - I just looked through the list on abcnotation.com and didn't find one that actually worked, but if anybody finds one, can they let me know?


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Subject: RE: Tech: ABC converter help
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 29 May 17 - 02:55 PM

Jon, Thanks for the news of it working again
I see a message from simon but I'd been away

"Luckily, the person who originally programmed the converter hosted on
mandolintab.net could figure out the problem and send me a fixed version
of it."


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