Help requested for ABC notation

Subject: Help req: ABC notation
From: radriano
Date: 24 Jan 00 - 02:39 PM

The following two songs were posted in ABC format some time ago.
The Irish Jaunting Car was posted by Joe Offer and The Jarvey was a Leprechaun was posted by Alison.
I can't get either of these to draw properly. I have some experience with ABC but obviously I'm doing something wrong.
Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.
I don't want to clutter up this site with the answer unless it will help others. You can reach me at: [e-mail]
Here are the postings:

X:1
T:My Irish Jaunting Car
M:6/8
Q:1/4=120
K:G
DD2DDB,|DG3B2|BAGED2|B,C5|B,/2C/2D2DDB,|DG2AB2|
BAFDDE|FG5|G/2A/2B2GGA|Bc2BA2|d/2c/2B2GD2|
B,C5|B,/2C/2D2DDB,|DG2ABB|Bc2AF2|DG5|cB2GGA|
Bc2BA2|d/2c/2B2GDB,|C5B,/2C/2|D2DDB,D|G2ABBB|
AFDDEF|G5B|B2GGAB|c2BA2d/2c/2|B2GD2B,|C5B,/2C/2|
D2DDB,D|G2ABAB|c2AF2D|G4||




X:1 T:The Jarvey was a leprechaun
M:4/4
Q:1/4=100
K:G
D8|D2G2G2G2|G2B2B9/4c7/4|B2G2D7/4E9/4|=F25/4D7/4|
D2G2G2G2|G2B2B7/4B9/4|c2A2G2F2|G6A2|B2G2G9/4B7/4|
c2A2A9/4c7/4|B2G2D2E2|=F6D2|D2G2G2G2|G9/4B7/4B2B2|
c2A2G2F2|G6d2|DGGA3/4^A7/4A/2G=F|DDDC/2D7/2D|
DGGA^AA/2^A/2^Ac3/4d/4|-d3/4c5/4^AcA3c|ddcc^AA/2G3/2A|
^AAG=FD3C/2C/2|DGGA^AA/2^A/2^Ac|dDEFG4|-G3DDGGG|
GBBcBG/2DE3/2|=F3DDGGG|GBBBcAGF|G3ABGGB|cAAcBGDE|
=F3DD3/4G5/4GG|GBBBcA3/4G5/4F|G2d3/2d/2DGGA|
^AA/2G3/2=FDD/2DC3/2|D3DDGGA|^AA/2^A^A/2cdc/2^Ac3/2|
A3cddcc|^A/2A/2G2A^AA/2G3/2=F|D3DDGGA|^AA/2^A^A/2cdDEF|


radriano

Subject: RE: Help requested for ABC notation
From: GUEST,Guest1
Date: 24 Jan 00 - 02:47 PM

Not all ABC programs display the same. After Q:1/4=120 in the first put in another line, L:1/8, and in the second L:1/4, and see if that cures your problem.

Subject: RE: Help requested for ABC notation
From: GUEST,Guest1
Date: 24 Jan 00 - 02:51 PM

I should have noted that there are ABC standards available on the ABC homepage, but at present there are no ABC software programs that implement them precisely.

Subject: RE: Help requested for ABC notation
From: radriano
Date: 24 Jan 00 - 05:54 PM

Dear GUEST,Guest1:

Thanks for the hint but that was the first thing I tried, as 1/8 is the common meter for 6/8 time and 1/4 is the common meter for 4/4 time.

I'm using the ABC2Win program. For My Irish Jaunting Car the problem lies in the notations like B,C5 in the first line and, in The Jarvey was a Leprechaun, the notations like B9/4, also in the first line of that song.

radriano

Subject: RE: Help requested for ABC notation
From: Jeri
Date: 24 Jan 00 - 06:27 PM

It's the note length. I don't know what ABC thinks is acceptable, but I used a combination of 3 and 2 instead of 5 for the first tune, and it seemed to work.

T:My Irish Jaunting Car
M:6/8
L:1/8
R:Jig
K:G
DD2DDB,|DG3B2|BAGED2|B,C3C2|B,/2C/2D2DDB,|DG2AB2|
BAFDDE|FG3G2|G/2A/2B2GGA|Bc2BA2|d/2c/2B2GD2|
B,C3C2|B,/2C/2D2DDB,|DG2ABB|Bc2AF2|DG3G2|cB2GGA|
Bc2BA2|d/2c/2B2GDB,|C3C2B,/2C/2|D2DDB,D|G2ABBB|
AFDDEF|G3G2B|B2GGAB|c2BA2d/2c/2|B2GD2B,|C3C2B,/2C/2|
D2DDB,D|G2ABAB|c2AF2D|G4||

Subject: RE: Help requested for ABC notation
From: GUEST,Guest1
Date: 24 Jan 00 - 08:06 PM

Those ABCs must be from one of those programs that supposedly convert to ABC from MIDI, but don't usually work right.

Subject: RE: Help requested for ABC notation
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Jan 00 - 04:55 AM

Yeah, I think that Alison and I both probably used Alan of Australia's MIDITEXT, which tends to put out ABC's that aren't as compact as they could be. He's in the process of switching us over to MIDIs. Max has given him space here at the 'Cat for them. When he's set up, you'll be able to e-mail MIDI files to some of us for posting. If it would help, I can e-mail the MIDI files to you. Click on my name below to send me e-mail.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Help requested for ABC notation
From: radriano
Date: 25 Jan 00 - 10:57 AM

Thanks, Jeri, that certainly worked out fine for My Irish Jaunting Car.

I'll play with the other song and see if I can work out something similar for that one.

Cheers,
radriano

Subject: RE: Help requested for ABC notation
From: radriano
Date: 25 Jan 00 - 11:31 AM

I played with the notation for My Irish Jaunting Car and noticed that there were some other problems with the posting.

Here's what the notation should look like to draw properly:

X:1
T:My Irish Jaunting Car
M:6/8
L:1/8
K:G
DD2DDB,|DG3B2|BAG ED2|B,C3C2|B,/2C/2D2DDB,|DG2AB2|
BAF DDE|FG3G2|G/2A/2B2GGA|Bc2BA2|d/2c/2B2GD2|
B,C3C2|B,/2C/2D2DDB,|DG2ABB|Bc2AF2|DG3G2|cB2GGA|
Bc2BA2|d/2c/2B2GDB,|C3C2B,/2C/2|D2D DB,D|G2A BBB|
AFD DEF|G3G2B|B2G GAB|c2BA2d/2c/2|B2GD2B,|C3C2B,/2C/2|
D2D DB,D|G2A BAB|c2AF2D|G4||

Note the spacing in the third measure. Spaces in ABC notation make all the difference for correct drawing of the tune. It would seem that the system used to translate these postings into ABC lumped all the notes in each measure together, thereby eliminating those all important spaces.

Perhaps we can come up with some method for testing these automatic translations so that postings are accurate. I'd be happy to offer my services towards this goal although I obviously need to learn ABC notation a little better myself.

My thanks to everyone for their input.

radriano

Subject: RE: Help requested for ABC notation
From: radriano
Date: 26 Jan 00 - 10:42 AM

I got in touch with the abcusers list to try and resolve this problem and got a good answer from them the other day.

According to Phil Taylor: "...you are up against the problem which besets all midi to music converters, which is that the original MIDI file was recorded directly by a human being playing a keyboard, and the timings are all a bit irregular. This means that you have some odd note timings which do not translate directly into staff notation unless you decompose them into smaller notes which are tied together....

This is similar to the problem of playing Irish tunes from written music. You have to be familiar with the tradition to pull it off. In the MIDI conversion problem the situation is reversed. The program is taking a live performance and trying to crunch it to technical rules of music notation.

radriano

Subject: RE: Help requested for ABC notation
From: Jon W.
Date: 26 Jan 00 - 11:27 AM

Exactly. MIDI and ABC are nearly as different as a recording of a tune and the sheet music of the tune. Both are great but they aren't substitutes for each other. The midi to abc conversion programs I have used are very literal. They need to have some intelligence about timing built in to them. For instance if it sees a 7/64th note followed by a 9/64th note it should put out two eighth notes.