Subject: Test of ABC Format From: Jon W. Date: 08 Oct 97 - 09:48 AM This thread is to test the posting of tunes in the forum using ABC format. I have posted the following tune by importing an ABC file to my ascii editor and changing all carriage returns (new lines) into the HTML line break tag <br>.
T:Leitrim Fancy, The |
Subject: RE: Test of ABC Format From: Jon W. Date: 08 Oct 97 - 09:58 AM It worked! I copied the ABC tune to the clipboard and pasted it back into a new file in my editor. I then ran a compare against the original (not trusting my eyes) and it found no differences. Therefore I should be able to play the reconstituted file on my ABC player, except that's on my home computer and I'm at work now. For more information on ABC notation, go to the ABC Homepage. There is also shareware and a free demo there to download. |
Subject: RE: Test of ABC Format From: Bert Date: 08 Oct 97 - 01:37 PM Jon, The problem that I was having was trying to align the abc with the lyrics. It seems that the HTML <PRE>, for preformatted text, doesn't work in a thread but works fine in a personal message. Does anyone have a solution for this? |
Subject: RE: Test of ABC Format From: Carl Date: 08 Oct 97 - 04:35 PM Hey, that´s what I´m talking about all the time ! (Look up the Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile thread). - I know, most of you fancy that MIDI-stuff. I´d rather play an instrument than at my computer (which isn´t mine at all, by the way). So I prefer the easy way. That seemed to me something ascii-like: so I shouted out: ABC, let´s have some ABC guys! But Jon, I don´t want you to become disappointed, but the response on my promise on using ABC you can see at the above mentioned thread. Well, stay tuned, Carl |
Subject: RE: Test of ABC Format From: Jon W. Date: 08 Oct 97 - 06:25 PM I see ABC simply as a solution to the problem of including tunes with the lyrics posted in the forum. If a few of us start posting the ABC notation with our songs, more and more people will start to see the usefulness of it and start to use it. If nothing else, the burning desire to hear the tune will send people scurrying over to the ABC home page to download the software and to Notepad to copy and paste the notation so they can play the tune. It's just a matter of spreading the word and being patient. Bert, I suspect your problem with alignment should be passed on to Max - especially since it works in one place and not in the other. P.S. Why isn't < working anymore? |
Subject: RE: Test of ABC Format From: Jon W. Date: 08 Oct 97 - 06:27 PM well shoot, it worked that time. Lets try it a little different: < br> |
Subject: RE: Test of ABC Format From: dick greenhaus Date: 08 Oct 97 - 06:40 PM A VERY neat shareware program for playing tunes written in ABC is ABCMUS: It not only provides a very flexible player but will even figure out chords ov varying complexity. It will also read the SongWright files we supply with the DOS download of the database. |
Subject: RE: Test of ABC Format From: Jon W. Date: 09 Oct 97 - 03:19 PM Two things: 1) the sample above needs a line "X:1" added before other lines in order to be complete. 2) I downloaded two more pieces of software from the ABC homepage site. Each took only a few seconds to download. One is called playqabc, which plays abc files through the PC speaker. It runs under DOS. I tested it and it works, but since it only takes a file name, the ABC would have to be saved to a file. This can be done by copying from the forum, pasting to a Notepad document, and saving as ASCII. The other program (actually a pair of programs) converts between MIDI and ABC. I'm going to take them home and try them out, and I'll let you all know how they work tomorrow (I hope). If they work I'll post the two tunes in the TUNES thread I started yesterday, in ABC in that thread. |
Subject: RE: Test of ABC Format From: Jon W. Date: 10 Oct 97 - 12:37 PM I used the program MIDI2ABC to convert the tunes for Sleepy Peedie Laddie and The Handcart Song to ABC, and posted the results to the TUNES thread as advertized. This is a DOS application which best runs from a DOS prompt, not the "Run" thingie on the Start menu of Win '95. You have to be in DOS to get the redirection command to work right, so the tune will go to a file instead of the screen. |
Subject: RE: Test of ABC Format From: Joe Offer Date: 18 Oct 97 - 09:16 PM Well, I downloaded the ABCMUS program from the ABC Home Page, and I have to say I'm really impressed. I do wish it could convert MIDI files to ABC, but it otherwise seems like a very good program. And at a $10 registration fee, it's the cheapest way to get something you can use to play around with the Digital Tradition Songwright tune files. I'd say it's definitely worth a try. -Joe Offer- |
Subject: RE: Test of ABC Format From: Jon W. Date: 20 Oct 97 - 11:39 AM I have now started testing the "MUSE" program for windows. It seems to do a fairly good job converting ABC to normal music notation - one song I tried had some problems (maybe something unexpected in the ABC file) but the other one seemed to work just fine. The really nice thing about it is that it beams the notes together just as the ABC file specifies, something that seems to be lost in converting ABC to MIDI with ABCMUS. I downloaded it from the ABC site or from the Ceolas music archive, I don't remember which (probably available both places). It gives you a 30 day free trial, then costs about $17 (10 pounds) to register - still a real bargain. |
Subject: RE: Test of ABC Format From: alison Date: 20 Oct 97 - 06:17 PM Hi Before you all rush out and spend your money , I know Alan of Oz is working on something...............Watch this space............ Slainte Alison |
Subject: RE: Test of ABC Format From: Joe Offer Date: 20 Oct 97 - 08:07 PM Well, I'll certainly wait for Alan's contribution, Alison. In the meantime, I think it would be worthwhile for some of us to download ABCMUS or MUSE and play around with them. With ABCMUS, I can highlight and copy a tune from the forum, and then play it right from the clipboard without having to save it as a separate file. Most of the ABC tunes I've found online seem to be music for folk dances, not singable songs - anybody know where I can find more actual songs in ABC? I'm having fun with this. Oh, and I unzipped all the Digital Tradition Songwright tunes, and I've found that they play very nicely with ABCMUS. Still and all, I'll betcha our Very Own Alan will come up with something worth waiting for. -Joe Offer- |
Subject: RE: Test of ABC Format From: Alan of Australia Date: 21 Oct 97 - 03:32 AM G'day, Since Alison has dropped me in it I'd better explain that I've modified a couple of programs I wrote a few years ago to convert MIDI to text and back. So what I'm doing is of interest to MIDI type people (I have a large hardware and software commitment to MIDI). I'm still testing but this will allow Mudcat users to share MIDI files without using up too much bandwidth. MIDI and ABC people can talk to each other by means of the ABC2MIDI and MIDI2ABC programs mentioned by Jon W, although these programs seem to be pretty buggy. Hopefully my programs will prove to convert more accurately. Gotta go, I have a class of C students waiting for me.
Cheers, |
Subject: RE: Test of ABC Format From: John (Brisbane Australia) Date: 24 Oct 97 - 12:09 AM Hi All, I've been playing with ABC and MIDI files for a little while. My initial aim was to pick up some tunes that I did not know, as I don't read sheet music very well. Some observations along the way about MIDI files I have found on the Web. - There are lots of Celtic tunes, but relatively few come from songs. - There are lots of other tunes around from classical and popular culture. There are quite a few G&S scores for example. - It might just be my setup (a Soundblaster 16 Bit stereo soundcard) but the volume mix on many MIDIs that I play is not very palatable/or some of the arrangements are not to my taste. And there are lots of good ones. - There is an awful lot of shareware out there to play MIDI. I picked up one package on ZDNET called MIDIMADE which allows you very easily to adjust the volume on each MIDI track, revise instruments, change key and change speed of replay. I have tried lots of others which don't seem to do this. In particular if some part of the MIDI arrangement gets up your nose then you can mute it. The registered version allows you to save the revised MIDI files, but I have not gone that far yet. I don't recall the cost. - I did turn up my nose at MIDI somewhat until I realised that I now have the ability to focus on in on a particular musical part, be it a harmony, bass, rhythm or percussion line and hear it properly - something that is not possible on a recording or similar. - Basically I'm more interested in the music that went in rather than the noise that comes out but I would welcome any feedback on whether the 32 or 64 Bit boards make folk instruments such as fiddle sound any better than the crappy noise my wife complains about on my system. Regards John |
Subject: RE: Test of ABC Format From: John (Brisbane) Date: 24 Oct 97 - 12:21 AM OOPS!!!!! The shareware package I referred to above is actually titled "Midiart". The main distinction from other players is that it contains a fairly realistic looking audio mixer on screen. I note that it costs $59US. On reflection this seems like it's moderately expensive. Regards John |
Subject: RE: Test of ABC Format From: Joe Offer Date: 24 Oct 97 - 01:35 AM Yeah, John, it does seem that it's hard to get a good music software package at a reasonable price. I got an ad in the mail from a tax program from Intuit for $16, but Noteworthy Composer wants $40 US. Heck, SongWright is still a hundred bucks, and Cakewalk costs about the same. Seems to me there should be a good $25 program that will play, read, convert, and print any type of music file. When I consider the sophistication of other types of programs, I think the music programmers could come up with something that gives us more for our money. Maybe Alan will be able to help us out. -Joe- |
Subject: RE: Test of ABC Format From: Alan of Australia Date: 24 Oct 97 - 02:58 AM John, To get a better sound from a sound card you need a WAVETABLE card. You might be able to get a daughter card to plug into your existing card. They're a bit expensive. My sound card is a Roland and the sounds for most instruments are extremely good. Roland also make daughter cards. Wavetable means that the instuments are real instruments that have been digitally recorded. This works better for some instruments than others. e.g. piano, drums etc. sound great. Fiddle is not so good - it is a real fiddle but doesn't sound like it's being played by a real fiddler. Still it's a lot better than the FM synthesis that most cheaper sound cards give you All sound cards are 16 bit. Cards such as AWE32 etc. are 32 CHANNELS. Joe, The main program I use is a commercial one called Musicator Audio which does a great job of playing, printing, creating MIDI files and all the things mentioned by John. It is also a multi track digital recorder capable of recording voices & real instruments in CD quality, mixing down to stereo in real time just like a real mixing desk. Also mixes any MIDI instuments into the final product. Costs hundreds though, software prices are a ripoff in this country. Cheers, |
Subject: RE: Test of ABC Format From: John in Brisbane Date: 24 Oct 97 - 04:26 AM Alan, Thanks for the tips. I have been stumbling about a bit in my experimentation. Joe, Have you tried YATOMID to convert MIDI to ABC. As I recall from the description in Ceolas it is supposed to do it. Because I have an acceptable MIDI player I have not bothered to try. Regards John |
Subject: RE: Test of ABC Format From: Jon W. Date: 24 Oct 97 - 10:27 AM Alan, I take it from your description of your program that it converts MIDI to both ABC and to some other form of text - sounds interesting. I can't wait to try it out. Joe, I paid the $40 for Noteworthy Composer nearly a year ago and I haven't regretted it. But you're right, there needs to be something that converts between the various formats and also plays the music. MIDI seems to be the lingua franca but (someone correct me if I'm wrong) I don't think there are ways of representing some of the subtleties of music notation such as tied notes, stem direction, grace notes as such, etc. Now how about a real challenge? I've been wondering if there was any software for converting scanned music notation (bit mapped image) into MIDI or any other symbolic "language." Seems I heard years ago about a robot that could "read" sheet music and play an organ, that was developed at some university somewhere. Such an "Optical Music Recognition" algorithm would be necessary for that project. If I didn't have to make a living, I'd be tempted to write one myself. Keep up the good work, Jon |
Subject: RE: Test of ABC Format From: Joe Offer Date: 24 Oct 97 - 03:09 PM Jon - I believe there are a couple of "Optical Music Recognition" programs available, but I haven't looked into them because they cost well over a hundred bucks - and I'd also have to invest in a flatbed scanner to read my songbooks. I'm on the prowl for one, though. I don't read music very well and I've failed at playing every instrument I've attempted. I have lots of great songbooks, but the only way I can teach myself a song is to enter it into Noteworthy, which is a tedious process. -Joe- |
Subject: RE: Test of ABC Format From: Jon W. Date: 24 Oct 97 - 04:03 PM Joe - I picked up a flatbed 24bit 300dpi scanner several months ago for around $200US. The price fell to between $150 - $170 immediately after that (just my luck). Don't know if that will fit your budget or not. Can you recall the names of the optical music recognition programs you've heard of? I've never seen anything like that (except the research project I mentioned earlier).
Thanks, |
Subject: RE: Test of ABC Format From: Joe Offer Date: 25 Oct 97 - 05:15 AM Jon, maybe I was dreaming. I looked through several Web sites and every software catalogue in the recycling bin, and didn't find a music-reading program. I've wanted something like that forever, and maybe I just wished it into existence. Darn. I'm a little afraid to try to run a flatbed scanner from my PC. The boss provided me with one of those HP Office Jet Fax/Printer/Scanners, and I think a second scanner might cause conflicts. Unless I want to use a 386SX laptop, I have to provide my own computer. Guess I'll have to learn to read music and transcribe it into ABC at lightning speed, eh? -Joe- |
Subject: RE: Test of ABC Format From: Alan of Australia Date: 26 Oct 97 - 09:44 PM John, Haven't tried YATOMID if I get time I'll track it down.
Jon,
Jon & Joe,
Cheers, |
Subject: RE: Test of ABC Format From: Joe Offer Date: 27 Oct 97 - 12:45 AM Thanks, Alan. As I rapidly approach the age of 50, it's a great consolation to know that I'm not totally delusional - yet. As for growing older, do you expect to live much longer if you go around saying things like, "If alison can do it, ANYBOBY can." I'd say you're cruisin' for a bruisin'. -Joe Offer- |
Subject: RE: Test of ABC Format From: Alan of Australia Date: 27 Oct 97 - 06:07 AM Joe, You're still a young bloke - I passed 50 a couple of years ago. On the other hand Alison's a cheeky Irish youngster with no respect for age & if there's any justice I owe her a whole lot of insults.
Cheers, |
Subject: RE: Test of ABC Format From: alison Date: 27 Oct 97 - 07:06 AM I'm with you Joe! Can you please tell Alan of Oz that I'm not speaking to him........ Cheeky youngster am I? (I'll probably let him away with that seeing as I am still young.....) Computer thicky am I? I have to admit though I am looking forward to this program, there hve been so many good lyrics on this site, it'll be great to get the tunes. Slainte Alison |
Subject: RE: Test of ABC Format From: Alan of Australia Date: 28 Oct 97 - 04:24 AM Ignore this - it's just a test!
MIDI file: G:\TURBOC\MIDI\BLCKTHRN.MID Timebase: 480 Name: Blackthorn Stick X:1 Cheers, |
Subject: RE: Test of ABC Format From: Alan of Australia Date: 28 Oct 97 - 04:33 AM So far so good, I converted a MIDI file into the text above. After posting it I copied back from the forum and converted back to MIDI. It worked, keep watching. Cheers, |
Subject: RE: Test of ABC Format From: alison Date: 28 Oct 97 - 05:28 AM Hi Alan, Unfortunately it didn't work here. got a message saying not ready, reading drive g cannot open g:\TURBOC\MIDI\BLCKTHRN.MID Got Mark to check it he reckons you've hard coded it, (by the way g is my CD ROM.) Better luck next time. Here's one for you to try.
MIDI file: C:\MUSIC\MW2\ALLGROG.MID Timebase: 480 Name: ALL FOR ME GROG To download the MIDItext software click here ABC format: X:1
Slainte Alison |
Subject: RE: Test of ABC Format From: alison Date: 28 Oct 97 - 05:42 AM HI tried with "All for me grog" and it seemed to work. Send me another tune. Alison |
Subject: RE: Test of ABC Format From: Alan of Australia Date: 28 Oct 97 - 06:47 AM Thanks Alison, the bugs should be fixed now. Here's what mine should have looked like:-
MIDI file: BLCKTHRN.MID Timebase: 480 Name: Blackthorn Stick ABC format: X:1 And here's what yours should have looked like:-
MIDI file: ALLGROG.MID Timebase: 480 Name: ALL FOR ME GROG To download the MIDItext software click here ABC format: X:1 To other users: this should work. To get your copy of the MIDItext software click where it says "click here" above. Cheers, |
Subject: RE: Test of ABC Format From: Alan of Australia Date: 28 Oct 97 - 09:50 AM Discussion of the MIDItext software has moved to a new thread "Now you can post MIDI files". Cheers, |
Subject: RE: Test of ABC Format From: Alan of Australia Date: 28 Oct 97 - 09:59 AM Alison, I should have mentioned that your "All for me grog" MIDI file converted without problems once I fixed the software.
Cheers, |
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