BS: Conservative Leadership Contest

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Leadership Contest
From: DMcG
Date: 05 Jul 19 - 12:28 PM

For a long time I tried to resist using the term Brexiteer, because in my view there is a distinction to be made between those who thought long and hard before coming to their decision to vote leave, using their best understanding of the facts available (and are probably well aware that what is on offer now bears no relationship to what was promised) and those who demanded to leave without any serious thought whether it was good for the citizens of the country or not (and care not a jot that what is on offer now has no resemblance to what was promised, beyond empty slogans.) The former I always tried to refer to as Leavers, and the latter Brexiteers.

However, it was a losing battle, and I think those who still support Brexit seem to be Brexiteers, based on my experience.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Leadership Contest
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Jul 19 - 12:13 PM

Well I've never called anyone a brexshitter, Al, brexiteer being my favoured term. Perhaps we'll see you kicking up when those of your brexit persuasion insult us with such charming terms as remoaners, remainiacs, leftards and so on. But I'm not that bothered.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Leadership Contest
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 Jul 19 - 12:02 PM

The tories want old mates to be bickering and falling out with each other...

Simple old fashioned divide and rule...

Don't give in to the sneaky bastards...

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Leadership Contest
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Jul 19 - 11:36 AM

Don’t take it personally Al, it’s genuinely not meant personally - you just choose to take it that way.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Leadership Contest
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Jul 19 - 11:06 AM

hows life given me a bad deal.
i'm alive. i live in a democratic , reasonably affluent country. i'm a one hit wonder as a musician - its better than having no hits.

i've been happily married nearly 50 years.
my car will probably pass the MOT.

I'm allowed to disagree with you about Brexit. I'm allowed to express my displeasure at being labelled a Brexshitter by you BWM.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Leadership Contest
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Jul 19 - 06:21 AM

Also two serial-liars. Watch the promises disappear once one of them is ensconced...

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Leadership Contest
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jul 19 - 04:43 AM

Pete - :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Leadership Contest
From: peteglasgow
Date: 05 Jul 19 - 03:57 AM

i'm very encouraged - no matter who wins, at last an end to austerity and loads of money promised to areas that badly need it. 2 open-hearted, generous and sincere tories. rejoice!

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Leadership Contest
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Jul 19 - 07:06 AM

”They amply demonstrated their minimal concern for factory and mining communities back in the 1980's...”

Nah...it was that nasty EU bunch wot dun it! {{insert ‘blowing a raspberry’ emoji here}}?

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Leadership Contest
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Jul 19 - 07:00 AM

Tories even aspire to send their own small children to expensive elite boarding schools,
to be processed into conceited callous sociopath bullies and perverts...
traditional leadership skill for the next generation of tory politicians...

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Leadership Contest
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Jul 19 - 06:44 AM

Remember the tories are the pro dog eat dog, survival of the fittest, nature tooth and claw party..

So if your business fails because of brexit,
or any of their other ideological policies,
that's hardly likely to score high on their why-should-we-give-a-shit-o-meter...

They amply demonstrated their minimal concern for factory and mining communities back in the 1980's...

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Leadership Contest
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 02 Jul 19 - 04:52 AM

So folks, who will lead us into oblivion - the incompetent egomaniac or the nasty piece of work? Of course as far as the tories are concerned, the consequences will be a democratic decision by 'the people' which means that everyone else, including myself are sub-human scum.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Leadership Contest
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 02 Jul 19 - 04:46 AM

David,
Trouble is leavers are so entrenched that if Farage and his cronies announced that the cost of 'delivering Brexit' was the loss of their first-born they would consider it a price worth paying. They have already shown that they don't give a toss about their children and grandchildren losing the opportunities that enjoyed themselves for the last 3-4 decades.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative Leadership Contest
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Jul 19 - 02:04 AM

Sandman, you’re not a Moderator,you don’t have any authority here, but you are a notorious trouble-maker. Al is a big boy who is perfectly capable of fighting his own corner (as he has proved here and in other threads).

Your attack on me is also personal, so I recommend you to mind your own damn business.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Raggytash
Date: 01 Jul 19 - 05:23 PM

With respect Dick I think you will find that it was Al who started the personal stuff with an unfounded allegation.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Jul 19 - 05:10 PM

backwoodsman your attack on Al is a personal attack , all this stuff about chip on shoulder is unnecessary

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 01 Jul 19 - 03:47 PM

Hunt's comments were absolutely disgusting. Playing the hardman by throwing away the livelihoods of others. Simply to placate the hard right of the tory party. Utter, utter disgrace. I think now that Johnson, unbelivably, is the lesser of the evils, he might well plan to throw us all under a bus, but he might well stuff it up.

Also "the way to deal with the brexit party is to brexit". Not it isn't, the way to deal with the brexit party is to relentlessly expose their lies and repeat over and over what a despicable charlatan Farage is.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Jul 19 - 01:16 PM

If this makes me ‘intolerant of any view other than my own, I’m in very good company, and I cheerfully plead guilty...

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Jul 19 - 12:44 PM

"Do you think the late Tony Benn would have thrown in his lot with Boris Johnson."
Sigh.....!
I've told you why not wishing to stay in Europe at present is neither supporting Europe nor "Throwing your lot in with Boris Johnson"
When Benn argued against joining the EU, Britain still had an industry and the means for Britain to stand on its own feet - it no longer does and the shreds of an industry we have left is rapidly dwindling away
Benn was a Socialist but he was also a pragmatist perfectly capable of working out why this decision to leave was taken for all the wrong reasons - it was based on getting rid of immigrants, which Benn would have walked over hot coals before he'd have supported that, for starters
Feel free to disagree with my arguents al, but please don't distort them
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Jul 19 - 12:22 PM

[errmm.. obviously the edited draft after that should have been the one that got posted...]


I'll just add..
.. there are loads of other valid reasons to always detest the tories..

brexit is just for the moment sneakily masking all the others,
in order to persuade otherwise sensible old working class labour supporters
to seriously consider voting for pernicious right wing parties instead...

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Jul 19 - 12:18 PM

I'll just add..
.. there are loads of other valid reasons to always detest the tories..

brexit is just for the moment sneakily masking all the others,
in order to persuading otherwise sensible old working class labour supporters
to seriously consider voting for right pernicious wing parties...

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Jul 19 - 12:03 PM

Al, I’m not sure where that came from, but I’ll answer the two points that are intelligible...

”To say the media is pro Brexit is delusional. The media are middle class remainers to a man”

Not according to this article....

”it’s just you BWM who is intolerant of any view other than your own”

No, I’m intolerant of those who propagate misinformation and make claims about the United Kingdom and European Union that do not, in any way, represent the UK and EU that I’ve lived in since 1947 and since we joined the ECM. The picture you paint is unrecognisable to me.

It’s just you, Al, who has a chip on his shoulder because you feel that life gave you a bad deal, and you’ve chosen to scapegoat the EU for the issues that were/are the responsibility of our own successive governments.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Jul 19 - 11:43 AM

Do you think the late Tony Benn would have thrown in his lot with Boris Johnson.

Believing that membership of the EEC is bad for England doesn't make you a tory.

To say the media is pro Brexit is delusional. The media are middle class remainers to a man.

Its just yuou BWM who is intolerant of any view other than your own.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Jul 19 - 08:31 AM

...except their own.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Jul 19 - 08:21 AM

I've said it before...

.. and I'll say it again..
this time in the right order that reads a bit better...

The tories are the pro business party that don't give a shit about British businesses...

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Jul 19 - 08:00 AM

I've said it before...

The tories are the party pro business that don't give a shit about British businesses...

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Raggytash
Date: 01 Jul 19 - 05:45 AM

Au contaire BWM.

He may have given you a laugh, sorry not my sort of humour, but I cannot recall one contribution on the actual subject matter.

Anyway back to the leadership contest. It would seem that both Hunt and Johnson are back-pedaling on their previous comments about a no-deal outcome after business leaders expressed disquiet about it.

It would seem they will say absolutely anything to get a grip on the power ............ except tell the truth that is.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Jul 19 - 05:39 AM

I see according to the Guardian "Brexit: both Tory sides play down no-deal risk after business alarm". It is a difficult trick to balance 'we leave Do or die' with there is only one chance in a million of no deal, isn't it.

However, I see both sides are simply asserting the EU will give us what we want, so not much sign of reality impinging on the candidate's thoughts.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Jul 19 - 05:35 AM

Of course he has, Raggy - he’s given us plenty of bloody good laughs! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Raggytash
Date: 01 Jul 19 - 05:03 AM

From Nigel "Where is the 51st state?"

Question just for you Nigel.

Have you ever actually contributed anything regarding the actual subject to any of these debates.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Jul 19 - 04:52 AM

He voted remain. I don't know how many times I have to say it.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Jul 19 - 02:28 AM

"He believes in Brexit."
No he doesn't Al - that implies he has thrown in his lot with Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage
He doesn't trust organisations of Capitalist states like the E.U. - different thing altogether
I don't trust them either - not after the way they attempted to manipulate internal Greek politics during their crisis, but until something better comes along they're the best thing on offer as far as I can see.

"Wasn't the 51st state in Liverpool?"
According to Robert Carlyle and Samuel L Jackson, it was !
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Jun 19 - 11:10 PM

Apologies - should have been “And the impending disaster, for ordinary people, of BrexShit...”

For the media-barons behind the peddling of this diversionary fake-news will of course, being amongst the tiny cadre of immensely-wealthy, largely non-dom tax-dodgers, who dreamed up the BrexShit project for their own benefit and have controlled it at every step, it will be anything but a disaster - it will be of immense financial benefit to them, whilst the ordinary people, whom they have brainwashed with their mendacious anti-EU propaganda, will be left to pay the bill.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Jun 19 - 11:00 PM

So what does that have to do with my point, which was that the rabidly-Tory, pro-Brexshit media are, once again, attempting to draw attention away from the Tory Party’s civil war and the impending disaster of BrexShit by impugning Jeremy Corbyn’s mental and physical health?

SFA, as far as I can see.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Jun 19 - 04:48 PM

The point is of course that Corbyn would have made a far more fearsome negotiator than anyone the tories can field.

He believes in Brexit.

Not what the Corbynistas want to hear....but I think think he could look Junkers and Tusk in the face and say, no deal - and they'd know he meant it.


And they wouldn't want that - no other country in Europe will be daft enough to pay their wages.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Jun 19 - 04:31 PM

Some sources would have it - incorrectly, of course - that there are already 52 states in the US.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Stanron
Date: 30 Jun 19 - 04:22 PM

Wasn't the 51st state in Liverpool?

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 30 Jun 19 - 04:12 PM

From: Raggytash - PM
Date: 29 Jun 19 - 08:01 AM

52nd state of the Union perhaps?

Where is the 51st state?

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Jun 19 - 12:00 PM

wiki: "He [Hunt] is a distant relation of.. Sir Oswald Mosley."...

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Jun 19 - 11:41 AM

”Of course Corbyn has been one of your despised Brexshitters - long before Boris or 'unt.”

Doesn’t change the fact that it’s a diversion-tactic used by the Right whenever they’re in the doo-doos. So your point is...??

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Jun 19 - 11:17 AM

"well Thatcher wasn't firing on all cylinders. several of the top chambers missing."
She certainly would have made up a winning hand in any card game alongside this pair of jokers
JIm Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 30 Jun 19 - 10:41 AM

Mr Jeremy C Hunt now says he is prepared to tell business owners whose businesses go bust because of his mad no-deal brexit plan that its all worth it. Easy to say when your fortune is already made and stashed away safely overseas. I am beginning to think that Boris is actually the lesser of two evils here. Hunt is just playing the hard man with other people's lives as collateral.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Jun 19 - 10:33 AM

well Thatcher wasn't firing on all cylinders. several of the top chambers missing.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Iains
Date: 30 Jun 19 - 09:00 AM

The quote is from the Irish Times article. Do try to get the facts right before disparaging it. Guido never makes elementary mistakes like that!

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Jun 19 - 08:14 AM

Interesting interviews with the leaders of the two main Unions underling the problems Corbyun is facing
McDonald says he is frustrated at Labour's Brexit approach, McClusky says Corbyn is doing his best to unite all the views in the country into a workable policy
Given the circumstances, the latter makes sense to me
JIm Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Jun 19 - 08:03 AM

Of course Corbyn has been one of your despised Brexshitters - long before Boris or 'unt.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Jun 19 - 07:53 AM

Tories knackered and BrexShit a complete debacle? “Look over there - Corbyn, Labour!”

Distraction tactics from clueless Right-Wing dimwits.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Jun 19 - 07:36 AM

"Luvvin it."
A quote from an unnamed article which studiously ignores all the other views in response to the article
Unlike the majority of the British Press, the IT gives space to a spectrum of views, from left to right and its letter pages echo that democratic approach to media access
Quiting one writer because he/she corresponds to your rightist vies is harking back to your total reliance on the criminal blogger Paul Staines - just as meaningless
One of these days you'll learn to put together your own thoughts (if they exist) rather than trawling the web to find somebody to speak for you

Far from "ignoring the membership" Corbyn has fought desperately to cater for all the membership. including the New Labour ullage
If he didn't, Labour would end up like the now totally divided Tories with its backbiting, in-fighting and clandestine coup-planning
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Iains
Date: 30 Jun 19 - 07:23 AM

Rather than benefiting from the Tory meltdown, Labour has put its own dysfunction on full display. It too is deeply split on Brexit.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/editorial/the-irish-times-view-on-british-labour-s-troubles-the-jeremy-corbyn-effect-1.379801

" His lack of intellectual curiosity, his intolerance of dissent and his doctrinaire faith in ideas he formed in the 1970s leave him ill-equipped to lead a major party, let alone a broad church like Labour. Time and again, on big issues – Venezuela, Russia, Syria, and many more – Corbyn has got it wrong. Most damning of all, however, is his mishandling of the Brexit debacle. Labour members hate Brexit and want a second referendum. Yet the leader who made a virtue of obeying the membership on all matters studiously ignores them on the biggest issue of all. That is because he, a eurosceptic, wants the UK to leave the EU."

Just not what the hard left labour mudcat luvvies wanted to hear, and just look who is saying it!

Luvvin it.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Jun 19 - 06:00 AM

"They’re absolutely terrified of him, aren’t they?"
Petrified
I get the Times (for Codeword) Murdoch's minions have produced what counts as an obsessive hate campaign against Corbyn since he appeared on the scene
Their cartoons out-grotesque those of Punch aimed at the starving Irish by miles
Amazing what progressive policies evoke when the status quo is genuinely challenged
"People tend to like someone with gravitas as PM."
Brits tend to, I think - can't help both the physical and mental similarities between Boris the Braindead and Trump the Thug - wonder if Boris likes golf !!!

I was lucky enough to have seen both Michael Foot and Tony Benn speak publicly on several occasions; (shared a platform with Benn once)
Neither could be described as 'personalities', but the passion and trustworthiness of both left you walking on air
Jim Carroll