Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: Dunkle
Date: 04 Oct 20 - 10:15 AM

Didn't look at the list, but I enjoy Tomorrow Is a Long Time, Boots of Spanish Leather, Chimes of Freedom, Tangled Up In Blue...

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: gillymor
Date: 09 May 20 - 07:46 AM

Love is Just a Four Letter Word, not sure if it was mentioned here, is another good one that I don't think Dylan either recorded or performed in public. Joan Baez did a fine job with it.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 May 20 - 07:25 AM

rough and rowdy ways, bet zimmerman cannot yodel he is not much of a singer these days , now listen to this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=073MdJzs5xU

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: gillymor
Date: 08 May 20 - 05:57 PM

The Band included a notable version of it on their debut LP, Music From Big Pink, though it wasn't one of my favorites from that great album.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 08 May 20 - 05:48 PM

Wheel’s On Fire was one of the Basement Tapes collection, which he apparently didn’t intend to put out as recordings, so his manager touted a lot of those discarded songs for others to record. Songs like the Mighty Quinn, Too Much of Nothing, Keep it With Mine, You Ain’t Going Nowhere, If You Gotta Go, etc then provided hits for the likes of Fairport Convention, Manfred Mann, The Animals, The Byrd’s and others. As you say, many people wouldn’t know they were Dylan songs.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: GUEST,Pseudonymous
Date: 08 May 20 - 04:29 AM

I like Wheels on Fire (as per the Julie Driscoll version). Not everybody realises it is a Dylan song.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 08 May 20 - 03:13 AM

Oh no! Even more to choose from! Bob has announced a new album titled Rough And Rowdy Ways.

He has also released a single titled False Prophet, his third during the coronavirus pandemic, following on from Murder Most Foul and I Contain Multitudes.

All three tracks will appear on Rough And Rowdy Ways, which will arrive on June 19, according to Dylan’s official Twitter account.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 06 May 20 - 12:57 PM

I always liked that one too, although it’s not perfect. It has a few dodgy rhymes and some clumsy scansion in places, highlighted by the perfect scansion in preceding or following lines. However, its strength lies in choosing to tell the story of miners through a witness to it all, as well slowing down a jig tune (The Ten Penny Bit?) to a haunting waltz.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 May 20 - 07:22 AM

I was criticising some of his song writing[not all] but not from a folk perspective
from a song writing perspective as a popular songwriter RayDavies was more consistent, an opinion of course,but one based on analysis of some of his songs, my prefered are
times are a changing
masters of war
boots of spanish leather,
tambourine man
and this his best effort in my opinion
Come gather 'round friends and I'll tell you a tale
Of when the red iron pits ran a-plenty
But the cardboard-filled windows and old men on the benches
Tell you now that the whole town is empty
In the north end of town my own children are grown
But I was raised on the other
In the wee hours of youth my mother took sick
And I was brought up by my brother
The iron ore poured as the years passed the door
The drag lines an' the shovels they was a-humming
'Till one day my brother failed to come home
The same as my father before him
Well, a long winter's wait from the window I watched
My friends they couldn't have been kinder
And my schooling was cut as I quit in the spring
To marry John Thomas, a miner
Oh, the years passed again, and the giving was good
With the lunch bucket filled every season
What with three babies born, the work was cut down
To a half a day's shift with no reason
Then the shaft was soon shut, and more work was cut
And the fire in the air, it felt frozen
'Till a man come to speak, and he said in one week
That number eleven was closing
They complained in the East, they are paying too high
They say that your ore ain't worth digging
That it's much cheaper down in the South American towns
Where the miners work almost for nothing
So the mining gates locked, and the red iron rotted
And the room smelled heavy from drinking
Where the sad, silent song made the hour twice as long
As I waited for the sun to go sinking
I lived by the window as he talked to himself
This silence of tongues it was building
'Till one morning's wake, the bed it was bare
And I was left alone with three children
The summer is gone, the ground's turning cold
The stores one by one they're all folding
My children will go as soon as they grow
Well, there ain't nothing here now to hold them

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 06 May 20 - 04:23 AM

Yes, quite so, but not just Folk performers, but also rock, blues, country, ‘Americana’, rhythm and blues, gospel, and even the ‘Great American Songbook’. We tend to be quick to criticise the folk episode in his long career, but that was only about four years out of about sixty as a performing artiste.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 May 20 - 11:38 AM

However despite my criticisms, i have to say that because of dylan , i discovered woody guthrie ,rambling jack elliott, and i belive through his popularity a lot of people were introduced to folk music and discovered other better folk performers

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: gillymor
Date: 05 May 20 - 09:52 AM

I'd put My Back Pages way higher than 47. One of The Byrds best covers, IMO.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 May 20 - 05:17 AM

I got a good way through last night and knew a few more than I thought I did. I just did not recognise the titles. Listening while reading is not ideal but there were one or two I heard that were not up my street on first listen. I am reserving judgement on them :-)

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: GUEST,fasteddy
Date: 05 May 20 - 03:26 AM

Senor, Black diamond bay, Trying to get to heaven, Mississipi, Working mans blues....? Where do you stop?

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 05 May 20 - 03:03 AM

‘Ballad in Plain D’ uses the broadly same melody as ‘I once Loved a Girl’, and takes that first line, and twists a few later ones (‘are birds free from the chains of the skyway’) as a springboard for a largely new song. How far that’s plagiarism is a matter of opinion, especially when the original is presumably not covered by copyright anyway. He went on to be completely original though, after that initial phase of copying others.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: Allan Conn
Date: 05 May 20 - 02:58 AM

So many great songs on that list but even more great songs left off. It is all personal opinion of course. For instance "Blood On The Tracks" ia a wonderful album and I know "Idiot Wind" is widely lauded as a highlight on the album and it is on the list at #3 here for best Dylan songs. It is though for me one of my least favourite tracks on that album. Maybe it is more the delivery of the song that I don't get so much as I have heard an alternative more laid back stripped down version and actually really liked that. Other great songs from that period though not that album would include "One More Cup Of Coffee" which I love.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 May 20 - 01:59 AM

ballad in plain d is poor ,what is it supposed to be a rewrite of?.
borrowing a trad tune is one thing, taking somebody elses composition and calling it your own is plagiarism.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: RTim
Date: 04 May 20 - 07:37 PM

If Masters of War is NOT in the top 50 listed (which it isn't..)...then I don't think you should take that list for much...IMO

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 04 May 20 - 06:49 PM

Well, I never said he’d written ‘Don’t Think Twice’, and as for plagiarism, yes many of his early songs are rewrites of other songs or melodies (eg Fare Thee Well, Hollis Brown, Hard Rain, Girl From the North Country, Ballad in Plain D, Farewell Angelina, Bob Dylan’s Dream, Song to Woody, Masters of War, and even Blowing in the Wind). The chord sequence to ‘Twice’, and it’s implied melody, is a standard ragtime song pattern, which I agree can be traced back beyond Paul Clayton to black blues songsters.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: gillymor
Date: 04 May 20 - 06:43 PM

"You could probably produce an alternative list of fifty great songs he himself didn’t think were good enough to keep."
Good point, Jerry. He also gave McGuinn the opening line of what became "The Ballad of Easy Rider".

The Guardian article is pretty interesting to me with tidbits about
the songs but I notice the author also left out another of my favorites "Down in the Flood".

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 May 20 - 05:57 PM

Bob Dylan clearly took "inspiration" from this song to write the words and music of "Don't think twice, it's all right".    And,, he paid a good amount later on to Clayton
the controversy was due to the fact that Dylan copyrighted the tune is his own name, with no mention that he'd taken the melody from Paul Clayton, nor any reference to to the negro song that originally inspired Clayton's song.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 May 20 - 05:52 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTZ_hMiI8Tg good old bobbie nicking other peoples work,plagiarist

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 May 20 - 05:48 PM

Check out ‘Don’t Think Twice’ where each verse has a closing rhyming triplet, quote,
dylan did not write most of that that it was written by paul clayton
dylan settled out of court, alittle bit of plagiarism by bobbie there

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 04 May 20 - 05:31 PM

I’m not sure I understand the point about cliches in ‘Blowing in the Wind’, but do agree it has some flaws, and is only considered a great song because it had a great impact, appearing at a pivotal moment in music and politics. Verse One poses three questions of which two are bland and seemingly innocent, but the third is suddenly much darker. However, the next two verses don’t quite follow that pattern, and mix up the inoffensive questions and the ones packing a punch. Check out ‘Don’t Think Twice’ where each verse has a closing rhyming triplet, descending from an inoffensive comment to a great put down on the third line - I gave her my heart but she wanted my soul, you just kind of wasted my precious time, etc.

But overall, his output puts most modern songwriters to shame, bearing in mind he has discarded many songs that are better than many others could produce - Waggon Wheel, Abandoned Love, Up to Me, Series of Dreams, Wanted Man, Blind Willie McTell, Love is Just a Four Letter Word, etc, etc. You could probably produce an alternative list of fifty great songs he himself didn’t think were good enough to keep.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 May 20 - 04:20 PM

What about the Christmas one!

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: GUEST,Jo-Jo
Date: 04 May 20 - 03:47 PM

Correction Talking WW3 Blues.
Two songs which might be considered rubbish are: All the Tired Horses - the same line repeats all thru, but I love it!
The other: Wigwam, this is a 'song' consisting just of La La's but again I love it. Only Dylan could get away with that. The true test is that ppl STILL buy his music, made him very rich - wish I could do that!
My Faves list above is by no means exhaustive. Like Marmite you either hate or love Dylan.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: JHW
Date: 04 May 20 - 03:46 PM

Thanks for the reminder. Alternatively I have 'Younger than that now' CD. 30 and more songs by Bob Dylan but sung by other people.
Favourite track Not Dark Yet sung by Steve Philips at the Grosvenor, Robin Hood's Bay. I shall go downstairs and play it.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: oldhippie
Date: 04 May 20 - 03:27 PM

My favorite, Desolation Row, is ranked #5, I'm good with that.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: GUEST,Jo-Jo
Date: 04 May 20 - 02:59 PM

Three of my faves, and ones I consider to be excellent are:
Masters of War
To Ramona, and
Ballad in Plain D
Talking WW2 Blues is also great fun - yes, fun!
I believe Bob just liked to play around with words. Listen to his Nobel Prize Lecture.
Whilst on the subject of comparing poetry to music, I think MOST songs come fron (first) written poetry.
T Hardy wrote magnificent novels, and also poetry, some of it real drivel, but like someone once said (paraphrasing here) "You cant be great all of the time" and Dylan is no exception.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 May 20 - 01:40 PM

As I said earlier, Dick, given the number of songs he has written there is bound to be some dross.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 May 20 - 01:37 PM

yes guest jerry,but i would not describe that as one of his vague progressive cliches however i did provide some examples, your example is a red herring, becquse i never said it was progressive cliches in its entirety
these were the examples
How many roads must a man walk down
Before you call him a man?another example
How many seas must a white dove sail
Before she sleeps in the sand
and this meaningless cliche
Yes, 'n' how many times must a man look up
Before he can see the sky?
that is why i do not think he is agreat songwriter ,not because all his ongs are rubbish but because some of his songs have major flaws

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 May 20 - 01:33 PM

Fine, Jim. I thought I had already ended it but, if you feel the need for the last word, please go ahead. I thought it was already over now, Baby Blue but maybe the times they are a changin.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 May 20 - 01:26 PM

"But please feel free to plough your own furrow on this."
And I pointed out that it was not "my" anything
I reall don't need anyone's permission to post what I want but I could do without being told it was off topic which it isnt
Nor do I ned to be told what thread to post to - you can't compartmentalise discussion to suit yourself
Let's end this here and not spoil the discussion eh ?
Jim

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 May 20 - 01:17 PM

I've input them on a playlist. I'll start on them tonight while reading in bed. Will Bob Dylan to with Ben Aaronovitch?

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 May 20 - 12:44 PM

The ants are my friends...

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 04 May 20 - 12:11 PM

How much must a boy experience before he can be treated like an adult?
How far around the world do birds fly before they take a well earned rest?
How much loss of life must we endure before we agree that warfare is bad?
The answer is unknown, and we can only guess.

Give me ‘vague progressive cliches’ any time, rather than overly transparent platitudes.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 May 20 - 11:16 AM

Thanks Dave (S). Glad I got your sentiment right :-)

Jim. No one is interfering with what you post. I refer you to my post of 04 May 20 - 07:39 AM, from which you quote but do not complete. The line you omited was But please feel free to plough your own furrow on this. I welcome diversion but bear in mind that a diversion is all it is.

Carry on discussing MacColl or whoever else you want to bring in to it but, personally, I think he deserves a thread of his own and I shall stick to Dylan on this one.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 04 May 20 - 10:40 AM

Sorry to arrive late here but it has been a busy morning in lockdown but…………..how in Hell does a discussion on Bob Dylan’s top 50 songs as published in The Guardian suddenly turn into a defence against those intent on attacking Ewan MacColl? I have never given MacColl a kicking either alive or otherwise in the fifty odd years that I have been aware of his work. On the contrary I have the highest regard for the man; if I hadn’t why would I have booked him at our club on three occasions, travelled to other venues where he was performing to hear him, possess a vast amount of his recordings as well as his own writings and writings about him?
If Dylan fans attack MacColl it would have more to do, in my opinion, with the interview previously quoted from Sing Out which is almost verbatim to the one he gave Karl Dallas in Melody Maker around the same time (late summer 1965) where he slaughtered Dylan as a songwriter, a poet and a political commentator. He still found room to have a go at Tom Paxton and Phil Ochs stating that they “weren’t saying anything that LBJ could disagree with” – naturally it provoked a record mailbag to the paper. Even some four years later on the ITV programme “Abroad with Behan” he was just starting to dismiss Dylan as the programmes’ credits rolled. However having followed Dylan for some 56 years and having heard countless tales about him, some plausible, some apocryphal I have to say that this one about a telephone call is a new one on me; still every day is a school day!
As Dave pointed out earlier (thank you) my comments were totally in connection with the actual article in The Guardian where there were 1,626 posts to the list published which, while some disagreed ferociously with the choices, it was all carried out in a most good natured, supportive and amicable atmosphere that it was a pleasure to be involved.
Very similar to the atmosphere following Dylan’s (along with Neil Young’s) Hyde Park appearance last July when it was possible to discuss with complete strangers the concert just completed along with previous concerts and his work in general in the same non-confrontational ambiance – which was the point I was trying to make some 24 hours ago.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 May 20 - 10:13 AM

"MacColl has no bearing whatsoever on Dylan's greatest songs."
Once these things are up they can be taken wherever anybody wants within reason - it's not "my" anything it'ss called democracy
MacColl collected a version of Scarborough Fair, Carthy got it from him, Dylan got it from Carthy and Simon and Garfunkle copyrighted it
Scarborough Fair is considered by many as "one of Dylan's greatest songs"
That connection can be made with other "Dylan's greatest songs"
Please don't interfere with what I post
Jim

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: GUEST,Roger
Date: 04 May 20 - 09:40 AM

On yonder hill there stands a coo,
It must have gone for its no there noo.

Must be a hidden meaning in there somewhere.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 May 20 - 08:07 AM

And the great McGonanagall of course :-F

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 May 20 - 08:02 AM

That's it, Dick. The song is a crossover between obscurantism and cleverdickery in m'humble...

I don't care too much for poetry in general (especially when it's read by poets in their obligatory mournful monotone - leave it on the bloody page!). We were Wordsworthed to death at school, and the relentless introspection in his big jobs just did me brain in, which I'm sure colours my present attitude. To me (unsupportable opinion coming up...), a good poem, or a line in a poem, that sparks something off in my brain, gives me a "why didn't I think of it that way" moment, articulates a delicious thought I could never have come up with myself, hits the nail on the head, poignantly strikes a sudden emotional blow, or simply provides a lovely and lyrical juxtaposing of words, is what I call poetry. I don't want to hear strain or dogged, relentless forcing. And call me flippant and superficial, but, to me, John Betjeman and Pam Ayres have it in spades...

Miss Joan Hunter Dunn, Miss Joan Hunter Dunn...

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 May 20 - 07:55 AM

I like Cicely Fox-Smith too, Dick, and occasionally sing "From the North".

I know what you mean about some of Dylan's lyrics.

You used to ride on a chrome horse with your diplomat
Who carried on his shoulder a Siamese cat

Sorry, but if I can't make sense of it after all these years, it's wasted on me!

There is a lot of his stuff that I like, just as I like some poems by Kipling, but it is a matter of personal taste for me. I don't really go in for critical analysis of styles and structure. I either like it or it's not my cup of tea. Maybe I'm shallow but life's to short to force myself to listen to something I don't like :-(

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: gillymor
Date: 04 May 20 - 07:45 AM

...but I prefer versions by Earl Scruggs Revue and Old Crow Med. Show of this fun rave up.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 May 20 - 07:44 AM

at least mick jagger[another phoney] admits he is a conservative

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: gillymor
Date: 04 May 20 - 07:42 AM

Most Likely You Go Your Way is an add for me.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 May 20 - 07:40 AM

in my opinion kipling was not a very good poet like c fox smith his poems imo work better as songs because they are written to a rythym. bob dylan songs that i think are amongst his better ones are masters of war,times they are changing, he specialise in not making his meaning clear in a good proprtion of his songs , one example, farewell angelina what the feck is that about, apart from a load of hippie cool cliches. blowing in the wind is better but still he deliberately writes meaningless lines example line one and two
How many roads must a man walk down
Before you call him a man?another example
How many seas must a white dove sail
Before she sleeps in the sand
and this meaningless cliche
Yes, 'n' how many times must a man look up
Before he can see the sky?

How many roads must a man walk down
Before you call him a man?
How many seas must a white dove sail
Before she sleeps in the sand?
Yes, 'n' how many times must the cannon balls fly
Before they're forever banned?
The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind
The answer is blowin' in the wind
Yes, 'n' how many years can a mountain exist
Before it is washed to the sea?
Yes, 'n' how many years can some people exist
Before they're allowed to be free?
Yes, 'n' how many times can a man turn his head
And pretend that he just doesn't see?
The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind
The answer is blowin' in the wind
Yes, 'n' how many times must a man look up
Before he can see the sky?
Yes, 'n' how many ears must one man have
Before he can hear people cry?
Yes, 'n' how many deaths will it take 'til he knows
That too many people have died?
The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind
The answer is blowin' in the wind
Yes, 'n' how many times must the cannon balls fly
Before they're forever banned?
The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind
The answer is blowin' in the wind
Yes, 'n' how many years can a mountain exist
Before it is washed to the sea?
Yes, 'n' how many years can some people exist
Before they're allowed to be free?
Yes, 'n' how many times can a man turn his head
And pretend that he just doesn't see?
The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind
The answer is blowin' in the wind
Yes, 'n' how many times must a man look up
Before he can see the sky?
Yes, 'n' how many ears must one man have
Before he can hear people cry?
Yes, 'n' how many deaths will it take 'til he knows
That too many people have died?
The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind
The answer is blowin' in the wind
a song full of vaguely progressive cliches, from an era when hippes sat around stoned saying how cool dylan was and nodding sagely and opting out of society,
it was just the sort of song that suits the establishment

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 May 20 - 07:39 AM

Bob and Ewan joined at the hip? Now, there's an image to conjour with! I don't think so, Jim. There may be some crossover but MacColl has no bearing whatsoever on Dylan's greatest songs. But please feel free to plough your own furrow on this.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 May 20 - 07:29 AM

"that was a typo "
Freudian slip probably Steve - mus frame it
"I have no reason to disbelieve the quote from Sing Out!,"
Why - did you know the writer Dave
Thar have been enough misquotes of MacColl to my personal knowledge to fill a library
I'm just discussing a classic with a friend by e-mail at present "How folk songs should be sung"
It seems some people will believe what suits them nowadays
Pleae don't pull the "off topic" stunt - the two are joined at thi hip as far as the history of the revival is concerned "You can't habve one without the other" - like love and marriage
Jim

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's 50 greatest songs
From: clueless don
Date: 04 May 20 - 07:21 AM

I'm aware of the distinction between "great" and "my favorite". That having been acknowledged, I was sorry to see my favorite missing - Bob Dylan's 115th Dream.

Don