Tune (MIDI) Req: Talk to me of Mendocino

Subject: Tune Req: Talk to me of Mendocino
From: GUEST,Paul
Date: 04 Jul 22 - 03:04 PM

This is a long shot, but does anyone have the music (or a midi) for this wonderful Kate McGarrigle song? There seem to be videos in various keys online. Thanks for reading

Subject: RE: Tune (MIDI) Req: Talk to me of Mendocino
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jul 22 - 11:06 AM

I should have added that I cannot persuade the file in the digitrad to play :-( "click to play" doesn't do anything

Subject: RE: Tune (MIDI) Req: Talk to me of Mendocino
From: DaveRo
Date: 06 Jul 22 - 01:08 PM

The midi file in the digitrad page:
https://mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=5665
should be at
https://mudcat.org/media/MENDCINO.MID
But it isn't.

And no, MENDOCINO.MID doesn't work either.

Subject: RE: Tune (MIDI) Req: Talk to me of Mendocino
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Jul 22 - 01:29 PM

Hi, Paul - I've looked and looked, and came up with nothing - even in my collection of fakebooks. Not in Sing Out! Magazine, either.

Sorry about the way it displays in the Digital Tradition. Actually, there is no MIDI file. I can tell that at a glance, but I guess it's not obvious to people who don't work with the database every day.

We have indexes for gazillions of songbooks, but Mudcat search is down today and I don't know how to search without it.

There is a songbook. It's called Thirty-three Kate and Anna McGarrigle songs (2007). It's available at these libraries:

https://www.worldcat.org/title/thirty-three-kate-and-anna-mcgarrigle-songs/oclc/156895898

Here's a company that offers to transcribe the song for you:

https://www.tunescribers.com/

Subject: RE: Tune (MIDI) Req: Talk to me of Mendocino
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 07 Jul 22 - 12:30 AM

dave, I think dt songs with a dt tune would have a TUNEFILE entry.

I've looked ths song up on both my own dt database attempt and the Yet Another Digital Tradition website just in case and neither of these has a tune for the song.

Another MC place one can try for tunes is the Mudcat MIDI page. A number of the entries have a DT link to take you to the song entry but I don't think any of the MIDIs ever made it back to the dt database.

Subject: RE: Tune (MIDI) Req: Talk to me of Mendocino
From: DaveRo
Date: 07 Jul 22 - 02:37 AM

Hi Jon. Yes, I assumed the presence of the midi player meant there was a midi file. After reading Joe's comment - "there is no MIDI file. I can tell that at a glance" - I looked at a couple of tunes:

- this song which doesn't play:
https://mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=6014

- and this one which does:
https://mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=2174

The latter has a 'Click to play" link - which actually downloads it here but perhaps works on some computers.

(I was amazed to discover that the popup player even plays on this Android tablet - it doesn't on my Linux desktop - for reasons already discussed, I think.)

Having the Pop-up Midi player on pages with no midi file is daft. It means anybody searching on Google using 'mendocino midi site:mudcat.org' will get that page and waste time trying to play it, as the OP probably did. It would probably take half an hour to fix the page.

When I first came accross 'Mendicino' (as the name of an Intel processor) I assumed it was pronounced 'Mendochino'. When I heard the McGarrigles' song I assumed theirs was a strange French-Canadian pronunciation.

Subject: RE: Tune (MIDI) Req: Talk to me of Mendocino
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 07 Jul 22 - 07:29 AM

I think I've just found an error with the Popup Player. It looks to me as if it is using "filename" rather than "TUNE FILE".

eg: Hells Angel(Wild Biker)

On my version of the dt database (which may or may not have been taken from the same release MC uses), there are 1224 songs where these fields differ.

Subject: RE: Tune (MIDI) Req: Talk to me of Mendocino
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 07 Jul 22 - 09:30 AM

Just a possible curiosity item for Joe from a query run on my dt database. It's a .ods spreadsheet which Excel should be able to handle as well as LibreOffice. The "X" column can be used for sorting/filtering and can contain:
X: no tune in db
N: song and tune in db but names don't match
Y: song and tune in db with matching names

Some song titles occur more than once in the spreadsheet as the song has more than one tune.

eg. A-ROVIN' (1)

Subject: RE: Tune (MIDI) Req: Talk to me of Mendocino
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Jul 22 - 01:19 PM

The misleading tune information in the Digital Tradition at Mudcat is due to the blending of the ASCII Digital Tradition file with the HTML of Mudcat. Max added features for playing and displaying tunes. It would have been hard for him to design a workaround for those songs that did not have tunes, so that left some of the songs with inoperable links.
I can look at Arovin'(1) and tell at a glance that there should be tune files, identified as>

TUNE FILE: AROVIN.1
TUNE FILE: AROVIN.2

Those TUNE FILE: lines won't be present in songs that have no tunes.

I see in this thread (click) that MMario had a request out for the tune for "Mendocino," but apparently he didn't get it before he died.

So, we're still lookin' for Mendocino. Holly Tannen writes lots of songs about Mendocino, and I suspect she knows a whole lot more about Mendocino than the McGarrigles ever did.

Subject: RE: Tune (MIDI) Req: Talk to me of Mendocino
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 08 Jul 22 - 10:57 AM

The misleading tune information in the Digital Tradition at Mudcat is due to the blending of the ASCII Digital Tradition file with the HTML of Mudcat.

I don't think so if I’m understanding you correctly and at least with the examples I’ve looked at. I think Dick used AskSam as his database and you will for example find the same A-Rovin song/tune file naming in the .ASK file (which btw is a binary although some text editors will make some sense of it) in the DOS dt download. I might also note that any differences marked in the spreadsheet can not possibly have anything to do with a Mudcat conversion or “blending”.

Anyway, maybe enough on that... I think that in getting carried away and showing where I’d found differences I have managed to obscure my main point (as well as not helping the OP – perhaps some of this stuff would be better moved elsewhere or whatever?). Sorry about that. They don’t matter anyway as long as the right name is used in links.

The point is that I have found songs with tunes that won’t play for me with the pop up player and I noticed that the links for the popup player are given the song file name rather than the tune file name. As an example, the provided https://mudcat.org/midi/player.cfm?file=AROVIN1 does not work for me but altering the url to https://mudcat.org/midi/player.cfm?file=AROVIN.1 works.

It would have been hard for him to design a workaround for those songs that did not have tunes, so that left some of the songs with inoperable links.

Oddly enough, since I started looking at this (and I’d not paid attention before – I don’t use the dt database often and, generally, when I do, prefer my private version - links won’t work outside home on that example btw), I have not found “Click To Play” links showing on songs with no tunes. I have noticed that these links when the do exist supply the tune file names in the urls. It may just be me but I can’t think of any technical reason whey the “Pop Up Player” links can’t work in the same way.

Subject: RE: Tune (MIDI) Req: Talk to me of Mendocino
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jul 22 - 06:57 AM

Hi Joe

Thanks for the information - which explains why it doesn't play ;-)

   There is a songbook. It's called Thirty-three Kate and Anna
   McGarrigle songs (2007). It's available at these libraries:

Yes, I know of the book. I even considered buying it a year or so ago when I found a copy for a reasonable amount - but now it's silly money ($190 at Abe books). And unfortunately all the libraries are in the US whereas I'm in the UK.

   Here's a company that offers to transcribe the song for you:
   https://www.tunescribers.com/

I will investigate this - I'm sure it would be a lot cheaper than the book. I've been trying to do it myself but it's not easy!

Thanks again

Subject: RE: Tune (MIDI) Req: Talk to me of Mendocino
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Jul 22 - 09:46 AM

I think if you try Bookfinder you'll find more books available than show up on ABE Books. I see one via Amazon (in the US) for $95, the next price down is the UK for $187. Maybe Amazon will ship to you from the US? The title is Kate and Anna McGarrigle: Songs and Stories and it is by Dane Lanken. Penumbra Press.

Looking further in WorldCat I also see Thirty-tree Kate and Anna McGarrigle songs Penumbra Press, 2007, by Tom Mennier. This is the companion book to the book listed above.

Subject: RE: Tune (MIDI) Req: Talk to me of Mendocino
From: Helen
Date: 09 Jul 22 - 08:11 PM

If you recognise notes on piano, this video is just of the pianist's hands playing it on keyboard so you should be able to work out the notes and then make a MIDI file:

MENDOCINO (Kate McGarrigle) piano cover

Subject: RE: Tune (MIDI) Req: Talk to me of Mendocino
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jul 22 - 03:05 AM

It's been "chordified" here:

Talk to me of Mendocino

Subject: RE: Tune (MIDI) Req: Talk to me of Mendocino
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Jul 22 - 12:22 PM

That Chordify thing is cool, and you can download a MIDI - if you're a paying member.

I wonder how this link will work: https://chordify.net/chords/kate-talk-to-me-of-mendocino-mike-watts?origin=WzIsMV0

Subject: RE: Tune (MIDI) Req: Talk to me of Mendocino
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Aug 22 - 11:03 AM

Thank you for the further comments and apologies for the delayed response - been away foir a few days and came back with covid (forthunately pretty mild)

   If you recognise notes on piano, this video is just of the pianist's
   hands playing it on keyboard

Helen - thank you, I think I did see this at one time during my search, but will revisit it.

   I think if you try Bookfinder you'll find more books available

Sage - indeed there are although still twice the price I saw a year or so ago and rather more than I want to pay!

   It's been "chordified" here:

Interesting, although it's still the chords and not the tune - and the paid for download of a midi file looks to be the same, just the chords.

I have one more avenue to explore, I will see if a friend of mine in the US might be able to look at one of the library copies and give me some pointers

Paul

Subject: RE: Tune (MIDI) Req: Talk to me of Mendocino
From: Helen
Date: 08 Aug 22 - 12:17 PM

Thanks for getting back to us, Paul.

I'm not sure which country you live in but try asking at a library in your area, either a public or university or state/national library. They can check whether it is available and you might be able to get them to borrow it on inter-library loan, or they may be able to just get a copy of the sheet music but, as an ex-librarian, I think the chances are high that the copyright laws would kick in on that.

Perhaps another option is to contact the McGarrigle family and ask if the sheet music for the song is available from them at a reasonable price instead of paying for a whole song book.

McGarrigles website

I have tried my usual trick of doing a Google search for:

"Talk to me of Mendocino" sheet music

and then clicking the Images tab, but I can't see that song in the images. (Note: Putting the title in double quotes helps to search for the whole title and not just any of the words in random order.)

Please let us know how your search goes.

Helen, in Australia