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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Steve Shaw Date: 24 Oct 23 - 02:04 PM "...but you need to stop calling the kettle black and set aside your very dark blinders." Well perhaps, after all I've said about, them, you think I have a smidgeon of empathy for Hamas. Well I haven't, and I certainly don't need you to tell me how bad they are, thanks. But Biden refuses to criticise the utterly disproportionate response of Netanyahu. There are several pots and kettles here. Netanyahu is seriously in trouble at home and he sees the only way out is by carrying out vicious and utterly disproportionate attacks on civilians. He can't destroy Hamas and he knows it. It's just cutting off the head of the Hydra. You know that, I know that, we all know that. Biden, and he's not alone by any means, utters soft words of "advice" about how Bibi should be careful about hurting civilians. But no criticism and no call for a ceasefire. The reason for this is that Biden is not his own man. One word of direct criticism means that he will lose the next election, thanks to your all powerful pro-Israel lobby. Sunak is on the far right, is doomed anyway but is grasping at fake hubris as a last resort, so he will also say nothing. The bald fact here is that the Israeli regime requires more than criticism. It needs to be threatened with withdrawal of military aid unless it stops attacking civilians, and almost all of that military aid is sanctioned by Biden's administration. Decent people who know that Israeli shells have killed thousands of children are not going to continue to watch this horror show for evermore just because Bibi brutally and pointlessly keeps it going. We don't want to hear any more about tactics. We want to hear thst the killing has stopped. The man in the middle who can have the biggest influence I Joe Biden, and he's failing. We need a ceasefire. No more killing. Let's decide that political skins are less valuable than the lives of chidren. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Steve Shaw Date: 24 Oct 23 - 01:39 PM 'Lundging toward Non Stop moral equivalency for Hamas is what I expect from a hateful child." You simply don't understand what I was saying. Perhaps you could share some thoughts about the actual conflict in question, once you've apprised yourself of some facts. That would be a welcome move. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Steve Shaw Date: 24 Oct 23 - 04:48 AM From the Guardian: "The US has said now is not the time for a ceasefire between Israel and Hamas, as the UN reports that some Palestinians who fled their homes in the north of Gaza have returned due to a lack of food and shelter in the south. The White House national security spokesperson John Kirby told CNN on Monday that Israel still had 'work to do to go after Hamas leadership,' echoing comments from the US president, Joe Biden, that any discussions of a ceasefire could only take place if Hamas freed all its hostages in Gaza. The statement from the White House was at odds with comments from UN and EU officials who on Monday called for a humanitarian pause in fighting so that aid could be delivered into Gaza." So the US is conniving in the further bombardment of civilians in Gaza by excusing the actions which have already killed 5000 civilians, including over 2000 children, many of them having taken refuge in zones which are supposed to be safe. God help us. Not calling for an immediate ceasefire is sheer insanity. Well done Joe Biden. One of the less-bad guys, I suppose. I have just one grandchild, a lively eight-year-old lad, bright as a button, full of energy with a real zest for life. There but for fortune he doesn't live in Gaza. I wonder what I'd be thinking if he did. I wonder what Biden would be thinking if it was his grandchild who was living in Gaza. Do you think he'd take off his blindfold and see that children's lives are not less valuable, and less valued, just because they're thousands of miles away, thirsty, starving, dressed in filthy rags and living in mortal fear? "Big Important Political Decision," eh? As you were, Bibi, carry on. We only see what you're doing if we turn the telly on, but that's voluntary. We don't look if we don't have to. Every sane person in the planet should be calling for an immediate ceasefire. After everything we're seeing over the last two weeks, I for one don't want to hear of any more "tactical reasons" we shouldn't. If I were that child in Gaza I think I'd be wanting Joe Biden and Bibi, brothers in war, to shove their tactics where the sun don't shine. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Steve Shaw Date: 24 Oct 23 - 03:30 AM "And I did want to gently remind ourselves that the OP was stimulated by a horrendous attack on genuinely innocent folks who were celebrating culture in a culture that is statistically pretty free compared to ALL the surrounding 'neighbors.'" Well your "statistically free" culture applies to three-quarters of Israeli citizens but not the quarter who live in the occupied areas. That minority are free to be discriminated against, with low pay, insecure work, poor housing and schools and blatant discrimination at checkpoints, etc., and to be shot at and bulldozed out every now and then. They're perfectly free to have their best land stolen so that those culture-celebrators you mentioned can build illegal settlements. The folks may be "genuinely innocent" (here we go again...) but their leaders never have been. I feel like a parrot saying the same thing all the time, but unless you make the effort to study the history of the region, at the very least since 1948, you really can't understand what is going on in the region today. The young people had every right to have their music festival, every right to feel safe there and every right to go home happy, and Hamas had no right to perpetrate their outrage. A terrible incident, but just one out of thousands (literally) of terrible incidents that have happened down the decades. Read the history. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Steve Shaw Date: 23 Oct 23 - 06:25 PM That's your judgement, and it's clear that your predilections and prejudices are in favour of the Israeli regime. So they are the less bad guys, eh, having repressed Palestinians for three quarters of a century, stolen land from them, created almost a million refugees and killed many thousands more in every conflict since WW2, including this one. The horror of the Hamas attack was dreadful, it shouldn't have happened and I would never excuse it for one second. But,as I've said several times in this thread, do cast off the blinkers and look to the history. He really honest with yourself and reassess your notion as to who the bad and the less than bad guys really are. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Steve Shaw Date: 23 Oct 23 - 04:53 PM Well yes, Lighter, but (at risk of being accused of whataboutery), there are 4000 "political prisoners" in Israel, including hundreds of women and children and at least 1000 who are being held without charge. So no good guys in this, eh? As for Hamas hiding in tunnels, etc., some of you talk as if somehow that "isn't fair." Well they are not an army. They are up against one of the world's most powerful armies. Like all insurgents and guerrilla groups, they resort to tactics that those powerful armies have no need to resort to. That's a statement of the way things are and always have been, and is totally disconnected as to whether we should support one side of the other. Hamas thinks they're right, Israel thinks they're right. Hamas's actions were thoroughly disgusting. Israel has killed 5000-plus civilians, half of them children and women. Recoil from that but remember the history. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Steve Shaw Date: 23 Oct 23 - 02:17 PM I started this thread so we could discuss the terrible crisis in the Middle East, not so that we could go off-topic and meander about our personal philosophies of war, Maggie. Things are moving fast in Israel/Gaza and around and there's a lot to discuss. The philosophical stuff might deserve a thread of its own but in my view it doesn't belong here. A distraction that I've called out, though you clearly don't agree.. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Steve Shaw Date: 22 Oct 23 - 03:20 PM Perhaps you have evidence somewhere for those assertions, Lighter. Not sayin' you're wrong... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Steve Shaw Date: 22 Oct 23 - 10:32 AM Cross-posted there, Maggie. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Steve Shaw Date: 22 Oct 23 - 10:30 AM I'm sure that the moderators here will confirm that I didn't ask for your post to be deleted. You need to look to yourself when you get deleted. I didn't even notice the post(s) in question, but I should think it contained something not very nice (and I'm not referring to your usual doggerel). It behoves you to not make completely unjustified assumptions unless you keep them strictly to yourself. Find another way of trying to pin the "excited fan of war" slur on me. It will be a long and ultimately fruitless search, I assure you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Thompson Date: 27 Oct 23 - 02:04 AM Special Forces inoculating children against polio? Plot hole here, surely? Does this come from Conrad? Conrad would've heard about plenty of horror from his friend Roger Casement, whom he cowardly abandoned in his time of greatest need of a friend. But it would have been the horror of the colonists. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Thompson Date: 26 Oct 23 - 12:39 PM Coming in for a dog walk I met my neighbour, who said that she couldn't watch Al-Jazeera's coverage of Gaza any more. "They're showing children discovering the bodies of their parents," she said, tears in her eyes. "I don't know what news channel to watch - I'm just switching away from every one." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Thompson Date: 26 Oct 23 - 03:24 AM I was skipping around through the news channels available to me last night - BBC News, France 24, Channel 4, very occasionally Sky; Freesat used to have CNN but that's gone from me, alas. I clicked on to Al-Jazeera - which has really excellent reporting on international stories that other channels don't touch, except sometimes France 24, which has some good coverage of African news - and the focus was on a burly white-haired man in a flak jacket with PRESS on it, walking through surrounded by others similarly dressed; sometimes with a hand coming in from the crowd to pet his arm. The commentary soon told me that this was Al-Jazeera's bureau chief, Wael Al-Dahdouh. A few minutes earlier he had been commenting for the channel on an Israeli air strike on the Nuseirat refugee camp. His own family had fled to this central Gaza camp after Israeli bombing threats had warned people living in the north to move south. As he was giving his report, someone came to him and he turned aside to speak. The camera followed him to the hospital, where the bodies of his wife, his teenage son and his seven-year-old daughter were laid out. Other members of his family were under the rubble; his grandson has been found and they're still searching. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Thompson Date: 24 Oct 23 - 04:42 AM The late Dervla Murphy (a travel writer who started her career in her thirties (after caring for her parents for most of her youth) by transiting Europe in the dreadful winter of 1963, then crossing Afghanistan, all on a sturdy steel bicycle, ending up working in a refugee camp for Tibetan children) spoke to a Daily Telegraph journalist about Gaza, West Bank and Israel: “In all the countries I’ve visited,” she told me, “that is the only one where I felt it was my actual duty as a writer not to be neutral. Not to play this game of… we must look at this, look at that. We must only look at the fact that the Palestinians are treated utterly outrageously.” But each side, she says, must relinquish a dream in return for peace: the one-state solution is the only answer. “The Palestinians have to give up any notion of having their own separate, independent state, just as the Israelis have to give up having their Jewish-only state… In a sense that’s a good beginning: they both have to give up. But I don’t think that’s going to happen for a generation or two.” |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Thompson Date: 23 Oct 23 - 05:25 AM Converts and recruits aren't a lot of good if you have no country. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Thompson Date: 22 Oct 23 - 06:38 AM To be more exact, 70% are children, women and old people of the 4,700 in Palestine. In Israel 1,400 are now known to be dead; I can't find figures on the balance of age and sex, but have no doubt it's similar. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Thompson Date: 22 Oct 23 - 06:30 AM There are already 4,000 dead, most of them children. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Lighter Date: 27 Oct 23 - 04:31 PM For those who can't see the video, Kurtz says: "I remember when I was with Special Forces. Seems a thousand centuries ago. We went into a camp to inoculate the children. We left the camp after we had inoculated the children for polio, and this old man came running after us and he was crying. He couldn't see. We went back there and they had come and hacked off every inoculated arm. There they were in a pile...A pile of little arms. And I remember - I - I - I cried. I wept like some grandmother. I wanted to tear my teeth out. I didn't know what I wanted to do. ... And then I realized - like I was shot. Like I was shot with a diamond - a diamond bullet right through my forehead. "And I thought: My God! The genius of that! The genius. The will to do that. Perfect, genuine, complete, crystalline, pure....And then I realized they were stronger than we. Because...[t]hese were not monsters. These were men, trained cadres,these men who fought with their hearts, who had families, who had children, who were filled with love. But they had the strength...the strength...to do that! If I had ten divisions of those men our troubles here would be over very quickly. "You have to have men who are moral, and at the same time who are able to utilize their primordial instincts to kill without feeling, without passion, without judgement - without judgement. Because it's judgement that defeats us." The "horror" is no less than sixfold: The atrocity itself. Kurtz's realization that the perpetrators were (once, anyway) ordinary men. His conclusion that their kind of "strength" is necessary to win the war. Kurtz's implicit decision to adopt similar tactics. (That's why Willard is there to kill him.) The earlier information that Kurtz has a PhD and was once a model officer. The fact that exposure to atrocity has stripped him of his own humanity. (More "horror" than Conrad's Kurtz succumbs to?) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Lighter Date: 27 Oct 23 - 12:43 PM Rundown from the Associated Press: https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-strikes-iran-linked-sites-020822123.html A little deep background: https://time.com/6323178/antisemitism-israel-gaza-attack-essay/ "From the pulpits of mosques to the pages of op-eds to the stands of bookstores across the Arab world, the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, Hitler’s Mein Kampf and other timeless fictions and hateful works were peddled, updated, and perfected to the point that large swathes of the public stopped seeing Zionists or Israelis or Jews as human long ago. School children are taught to hate Israel, Jews are demonized as part of official curriculum, and 'summer camps' involve learning how to fire automatic weapons and kidnap Israelis." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Lighter Date: 24 Oct 23 - 01:26 PM It's all relative, Bill. Because Hitler was worse, we sent weapons and materiel to Stalin, who was not a threat at the time. In any case, here's the son of one of the founders of Hamas giving the skinny. It's well worth listening to the whole thing, even if it was on Fox News: https://www.yahoo.com/news/son-founding-hamas-leader-issues-113823186.html |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Lighter Date: 24 Oct 23 - 12:22 PM Cecil Day-Lewis (father of Daniel) summed it up in 1943 in "Where Are the War Poets?" It is the logic of our times, No subject for immortal verse – That we who lived by honest dreams Defend the bad against the worse. (In a corrupt world, defending the "bad" is sometimes a virtue, even for idealists.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Lighter Date: 23 Oct 23 - 04:24 PM According to a regional expert on MSNBC. They're not under guard as hostages, but they're not allowed to leave Gaza. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Lighter Date: 23 Oct 23 - 03:56 PM Not sufficiently publicized is that besides the 200+ hostages kidnapped in Israel, Hamas is preventing some 400 American citizens and foreign nationals from leaving Gaza. These people are essentially hostages also. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Lighter Date: 23 Oct 23 - 03:41 PM Two more hostages (Israeli women) have been released. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Lighter Date: 23 Oct 23 - 02:43 PM Expect Hamas to usher civilian shields into these tunnels (or "air-raid shelters" if you prefer), where the terrorists will hunker down as well. Problem for Israel: get the bad guys and their weapons out, while trying to recognize and spare the unarmed citizens. On Iwo Jima, it took U.S. Marines more than a month to pry the Japanese out of eleven miles of such tunnels. Hamas allegedly has 300 miles. And the Japanese didn't use human shields to generate world outrage. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Lighter Date: 23 Oct 23 - 08:01 AM Just for instance, Steve, you might refer to John G. Stoessinger's "Why Nations Go to War" (now in its 11th edition), especially the chapter on Arab-Israeli wars since 1948. A bleak general overview of destructive human activity is "War: Ends and Means," by Angelo Codevilla and Paul Seabury (2nd ed.). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Lighter Date: 22 Oct 23 - 10:46 AM Scuttling the potential Israel-Saudi accord is likely one of the chief reasons for Hamas's attack. BTW, Hamas can't lose at this point. The more death and destruction, the more converts and recruits. Its senior leaders, again BTW, live in luxury in Qatar, not with "their people" in Gaza. And their wealth makes them more popular. (Sound familiar?) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Lighter Date: 22 Oct 23 - 10:19 AM Or political, obviously. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Lighter Date: 22 Oct 23 - 10:19 AM The insoluble problem is that wars happen when leaders want what somebody else won't give them, or they need to punish other leaders for trying to grab something of theirs. Or they want to forestall a rival from striking first. Or they want revenge. And much of the time the led are all for it. No need to invoke genes, testosterone, -isms, or anything else. Kids will steal unless they're taught not to. Unfortunately, leaders don't have parents to discipline them. The pacifist movement and the League of Nations couldn't do it, and the UN hasn't been able to do it. Even the threat of nuclear weapons has been less than entirely successful. Both the US and USSR were nuclear when North Korea invaded the South. Everybody able to make an atom bomb wants one, and everybody wants cyberweapons. It's to get what they want, material or psychological. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Lighter Date: 22 Oct 23 - 08:02 AM Frederic Manning, Australian novelist, enlisted veteran of the Somme (1929): "War is...a peculiarly human activity. To call it a crime against mankind is to miss at least half its significance; it is also the punishment of a crime. That raises a moral question, the kind of problem with which the present age is disinclined to deal." Possibly because it is insoluble at our current stage of evolution. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Stilly River Sage Date: 27 Oct 23 - 11:51 PM Power and Internet and Cell coverage are all off in Gaza, and an Israeli assault has been underway tonight. Few reports from inside. The arguments for both sides in this war are powerful. With the state of social media today (what a dreadful time for Elon Musk to be at the helm of Twitter/X) there is little way to learn any truth about what is happening. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Stilly River Sage Date: 26 Oct 23 - 10:34 PM Apocalypse Now was a modern rendering of Heart of Darkness. "The Horror. The Horror." That story of colonizers in Africa, in an archetypal story that could to told in many places. Palestine was colonized several times over. And the US appears to have bombed something in Syria. Unrelated to the Hamas/Israel events, but the timing makes it all the more complicated. "Self-defense strikes" against something Iran is doing. Iran who is behind Hamas. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Stilly River Sage Date: 26 Oct 23 - 10:54 AM I regularly read Al Jazeera news also, but haven't tapped into it as much as usual. It might be an interesting exercise to look at the English-language Chinese news; they try to have an inviting site but the news is really skewed to the party line. And (alas) while the Canadian government is blocking US news sources because of fee disputes, I think we can still read the CBC reports. Offshore news helps balance what we see in the US. Senator Bernie Sanders is arguing that the bombing needs to stop, and he has enough of an audience (outside of the Senate) that some might hear him. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Stilly River Sage Date: 25 Oct 23 - 11:20 PM Participants in this thread have differing opinions regarding the guilty parties in the current Israel/Hamas war. There is no moral high ground. So far, 38 posts have been deleted, or 13% of the thread. When a thread like this includes wide-ranging information from other wars, from kind-of-similar-events, and whatever brain lint drips out through their fingertips, participants start dragging their personal soap boxes along to air their grievances about other people's opinions. Keep in mind that if you post something about the war and in the same message post an ad hominem attack critical of other people's opinions, or snotty responses to someone you have a running battle with, that the whole post is gone, good point and BS. So just stick to the facts and leave the personal animus unpublished. DON'T FEED THE TROLLS. There is news today. The Israeli IDF have played raw video (46 minutes of it) for the international media; it includes body cams, closed-circuit video, and that taken from rescuers as well as what was captured on social media from both victims and terrorists at the time of the terrorist attacks. This is pushback against the photos of wounded children in Gaza that are all over the airwaves. They are making the case that the original assault was worthy of this bloody response (their reasoning, not my opinion). I haven't looked for any of those videos, and have no plans to share any. If there are any glimpses in the links below, my apologies, I didn't view the videos in the stories. From The Times of Israel IDF shows foreign press Hamas bodycam videos, photos of murder, torture, decapitation Government says it’s revealing horrific footage collected from various sources to the media in order to fight ‘Holocaust-like denials’ of Hamas’s massacres in southern Israel From NBC News in the US: Israel shows Hamas attack videos as it tries to keep focus on brutality of Oct. 7 ambush The Israel Defense Forces defended Israel’s bombardment of Gaza but acknowledged that “we failed to protect our civilians” from Hamas’ unprecedented attack. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Stilly River Sage Date: 25 Oct 23 - 05:11 PM Give this subject a rest. The thread was making no progress, only taking more side trips and requiring the removal of sniping posts. If things change drastically it might be reopened, but don't start any more complaint threads suggesting you're not questioning why this was closed when in fact that's exactly what you were doing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Stilly River Sage Date: 24 Oct 23 - 12:02 PM The New York Times really messed up when the accepted the Hamas account of the explosions at the Gaza hospital, and now have done a big mea culpa about publishing too quickly. The culprits were from the Gaza territory and their weapon failed to clear the territory. Like all insurgents and guerrilla groups, they resort to tactics that those powerful armies have no need to resort to. Hamas are not Palestinians who are freedom fighters, they are a dictatorial terrorist group who have not allowed any other parties to participate in elections in the territories since 2006. Their leaders live abroad in rich surroundings. They are sponsored by Iran. There are no "good guys" in this war, but you need to stop calling the kettle black and set aside your very dark blinders. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Stilly River Sage Date: 23 Oct 23 - 02:19 PM CNN Live Updates includes information that 20 more trucks with humanitarian aid entered Gaza today, but are a drop in the bucket of what is needed. And the Israeli defence minister is telling troops to keep preparing. Over the weekend I listened to an interview with a woman whose research specialty is the tunnels under Gaza. It seems there are hundred of miles of them and they run at various depths so the routes criss-cross. They connect with the basements of a lot of homes. Many are concrete lined and are sufficient that military equipment is stored in there, leaders sleep down there, as do a lot of the fighters. It makes me wonder if technology such as LIDAR are going to be used, if they would work that deep. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Stilly River Sage Date: 22 Oct 23 - 10:29 AM There were no songs of peace posted here and none were deleted. The Sunday morning radio talk (NPR) have some calmer heads offering insight, and there was a piece about the role that those who advocate for peace are playing - and that they are encountering surprising pushback. The world of Social Media is great for taking sides, but one particular faith leader (apparently multi-denominational?) said that when addressing all parties and wishing for peace the pushback was confounding. We have seen it here when Don inserts his wish for peace as we debate the guilt or innocence of Hamas v. Israel. (Whether a resistance to peace or resistance to a change of thread topic is the question - offering divergent themes is a classic Donuel move.) Another commentator (thanks, Mara Liasson!) remarked that Hamas is only about war, and one of their big stated goals has been to stop the peace/trade/etc negotiations between Israel and Saudi Arabia. (That is one of the few plus marks in Trump's column, while his son-in-law was collecting huge payouts from MBS he also got talks started between the two countries.) Those talks are on hold, so Hamas count themselves winners. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Donuel Date: 26 Oct 23 - 06:01 PM It's basically Heart of Darkness. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Donuel Date: 26 Oct 23 - 09:15 AM Cheerleaders for war on FOX News have nicknamed this war, World War 3. |
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Subject: RE: written so a child can understand From: Donuel Date: 24 Oct 23 - 06:40 PM When a person or a nation practices power, it corrupts. A person feels, 'I have sacrificed, I have been wronged, and deserve to do what I want because I can do no wrong - I am always right - until they become assholes aka fascists. My own country is being threatened by fascist fantasies. That does not mean that shooting fascists is what there is to be done. The Hamas-Israel conflict has gone way beyond our stage and are both assholes who believe they are right to kill. 'Who was wronged most' games are played in narratives by both sides. The real answer is that both are wrong. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Donuel Date: 24 Oct 23 - 07:52 AM It may take less than a generation to change. The old white men with deep roots in racism and ethnic hatred who reminisce about colonialism and always getting their way, look at their last few months of life and finally depart the stage. Just living without the incitement to hate is a peace worth keeping. When one lives long enough you get to see the bastard's lies die in front of you. quote: Anonymous |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Donuel Date: 24 Oct 23 - 07:15 AM Lundging toward Non Stop moral equivalency for Hamas is what I expect from a hateful child. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Donuel Date: 23 Oct 23 - 09:46 PM I missed that nature show but speaking of predilections and news, Steve's slants remind me of Mr. Mahmood and News of the World. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Donuel Date: 23 Oct 23 - 04:10 PM 400 !? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Donuel Date: 23 Oct 23 - 03:01 PM Ground penetrating radar instruments would use a 400-MHz radio wave impulse to define stratigraphy at a spacial resolution of tens of centimeters to 10-15 m depth from a high altitude of about a mile. It is best used at ground level. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Donuel Date: 23 Oct 23 - 11:15 AM Thinking of an alternative to war is not easy. I found alternatives all involved a lesser of two evils. What is your alternative Gilly? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Donuel Date: 23 Oct 23 - 10:10 AM Platypus venom impervious to morphine. Worse than fire ants are an Amazon species. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Donuel Date: 23 Oct 23 - 09:38 AM Deterrence is an important tactic for war and its prevention. I see that mutual assured destruction is the only pain avoidance strategy but what about non-lethal actual ultimate pain being used as a deterrence? Using an ultimate pain venom for humans that morphine can not diminish and only an induced coma could relieve, might be a deterrence. PTSD and suicide would probably be an outcome so it is not truly non-lethal. Call it fact or fiction but a 'non-lethal' weapon that induces suffering without measure may have a place in our future. A synthetic hybrid version of Platypus venom combined with fire ant venom may be a candidate for such a weapon. Is the concept of ultimate pain an evil or a potential good considering the alternatives? jus thinkin outside the box. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hamas attacks Israel From: Donuel Date: 23 Oct 23 - 08:25 AM https://www.researchgate.net/publication/269867590_WHY_NATIONS_GO_TO_WARJOHN_G_STOESSINGER I remember how thirst was used as a weapon of war in the Humphrey Bogart movie 'Sahara'. |
