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BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions

MaJoC the Filk 05 Apr 24 - 05:47 AM
Donuel 04 Apr 24 - 07:00 PM
Donuel 04 Apr 24 - 06:32 PM
robomatic 04 Apr 24 - 03:25 PM
MaJoC the Filk 03 Apr 24 - 06:55 AM
Donuel 02 Apr 24 - 05:07 AM
leeneia 01 Apr 24 - 09:13 PM
Donuel 27 Mar 24 - 02:44 PM
Stilly River Sage 27 Mar 24 - 02:10 PM
Donuel 27 Mar 24 - 11:59 AM
Donuel 27 Mar 24 - 09:23 AM
robomatic 26 Mar 24 - 05:39 PM
Donuel 26 Mar 24 - 04:42 PM
Donuel 25 Mar 24 - 07:57 AM
MaJoC the Filk 01 Mar 24 - 09:44 AM
Donuel 28 Feb 24 - 06:45 PM
robomatic 28 Feb 24 - 04:51 PM
Donuel 28 Feb 24 - 01:23 PM
Donuel 27 Feb 24 - 06:25 AM
Donuel 26 Feb 24 - 02:24 PM
Donuel 25 Feb 24 - 06:38 AM
MaJoC the Filk 24 Feb 24 - 02:47 PM
Donuel 24 Feb 24 - 09:34 AM
Donuel 18 Feb 24 - 01:32 PM
Donuel 18 Feb 24 - 10:47 AM
Donuel 18 Feb 24 - 10:28 AM
Donuel 18 Feb 24 - 10:23 AM
gillymor 18 Feb 24 - 08:03 AM
Donuel 17 Feb 24 - 08:11 PM
robomatic 17 Feb 24 - 05:56 PM
MaJoC the Filk 17 Feb 24 - 11:48 AM
Donuel 16 Feb 24 - 12:01 PM
Donuel 15 Feb 24 - 01:36 PM
Nigel Parsons 15 Feb 24 - 12:16 PM
robomatic 14 Feb 24 - 06:49 PM
Donuel 09 Feb 24 - 06:06 PM
Donuel 09 Feb 24 - 05:59 PM
robomatic 09 Feb 24 - 02:37 PM
MaJoC the Filk 09 Feb 24 - 07:56 AM
Donuel 09 Feb 24 - 06:22 AM
Donuel 09 Feb 24 - 04:51 AM
MaJoC the Filk 08 Feb 24 - 11:13 AM
Nigel Parsons 08 Feb 24 - 11:07 AM
Donuel 08 Feb 24 - 06:47 AM
MaJoC the Filk 08 Feb 24 - 06:38 AM
MaJoC the Filk 07 Feb 24 - 07:14 PM
Donuel 07 Feb 24 - 02:42 PM
MaJoC the Filk 05 Feb 24 - 05:06 AM
leeneia 04 Feb 24 - 11:25 PM
Nigel Parsons 04 Feb 24 - 08:04 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 05 Apr 24 - 05:47 AM

Fusion doesn't have so many nasty combustion products as fission*. But it does release a skipload of fast neutrons, which tend to do unkind things to the materials of the containment vessel.

* Not just radioactive. Plutonium iirc is chemically evil in its own right.


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Apr 24 - 07:00 PM

Ask AI about this... https://www.ndtv.com/science/korean-fusion-reactor-artificial-sun-sets-record-for-sustaining-plasma-at-100-million-degree-celsiu

This is clean no waste power
for 300 seconds


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Apr 24 - 06:32 PM

The Prisoner was ahead of its time possibly by accident.


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: robomatic
Date: 04 Apr 24 - 03:25 PM

In one of the episodes of "Prisoner" the Village rulers are showing off their most recent world beating device, a super computer. Being in the 60s this thing is wall sized with lots of blinkenlights and tapes. The denoument is where The Prisoner is allowed to ask it a question which he does by writing it on a piece of paper and feeding it into a slot. The compute goes mad, lights flash, sparks fly, smoke is emitted,and the new flashy-doodle does the computer equivalent of soiling itself.
The aghast leader says: "What question did you ask it?"

Prisoner smiles one of those self-secure Patrick McGoohan smiles: "Why?"


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 03 Apr 24 - 06:55 AM

.... Sigh: The "prompt programmers" will be more expensive than the normal programmers they replace, and those vetting the result will be more expensive again. I've just seen the comment:

I'm supposed to be a software engineer. It's just like being a programmer except you do it properly.


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Apr 24 - 05:07 AM

The initial way in which AI is having an Impact is the loss of jobs sometimes as much as 90% with a few new jobs called prompt technicians. ie question programmers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: leeneia
Date: 01 Apr 24 - 09:13 PM

A couple days ago I saw a video on YouTube in which a woman claiming to be the mother of a five-year-old boy who says he's a cat said she was angry because a veterinarian refused to treat him.

I wondered later if the whole thing was artificial intelligence.


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Mar 24 - 02:44 PM

I knew Tom when he was back in Hamburg NY.


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Mar 24 - 02:10 PM

Final Tom Toles Cartoon dated Oct. 30, 2020. Right center panel fits this topic (and all others are remarkably prescient).


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Mar 24 - 11:59 AM

Paleontologists with the help of pet stores have discovered our oldest living fossil 30 million years older than the the T Rex.
It is the common gar fish that is unchanged after 105 million years.
Who knows we might borrow its anti cancer properties or slow our own evolution.

For the whole story check out the podcast Science Friday.


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Mar 24 - 09:23 AM

Pure research is good food
but if the reason is profit
results will be SKEWED.


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: robomatic
Date: 26 Mar 24 - 05:39 PM

deepity deepity dock
took sciency sayings for stock
cooked 'em in glue
to make a thick stew
And feed them to folks on Tic-Toc.


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Mar 24 - 04:42 PM

They built the LHC to find evidence for supersymmetry but nothing turned up except a Higgs field. We built an observatory at the pole to prove inflation. Zilch. A few of the neutrino capture labs have found different flavored ones. The Webb has found much of interest.

The idea of a geometric foundation to science makes sense to Eric Weinstein but even he does not know where it would lead. I think its worth a try.


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Mar 24 - 07:57 AM

Rigging the system is a lesson AI can easily learn from us.
A disaster movie 'Delete' is a fairly scary AI film.


Regarding the subject of reinvented science, there really needs to be a reinvention that allows for more than the mainstream POV.
Some of the mainstream-supported ideas are bigoted nonsense.
String theory has been quietly abandoned while new ideas are attacked without mercy with destructive criticism.

Paul Dirac said new ideas should not be attacked in their infancy.
Even Einstein is a reliable map but it is not the territory.
Requiring only old science to be the path to new understanding is a gigantic mistake. Academia is a very bigoted cop on the block.
Examining the evidence and data is often denied for political reasons.


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 01 Mar 24 - 09:44 AM

I've just re-noticed this: Baidu (the Chinese web goliath) has built a rival to ChatGPT, and named it ERNIE. Anybody this side of the pond will recognise that as Electronic Random Number Indicating Equipment, the machine which does the draws for the Premium Bonds*. Given ChatGPT's tendency to invent things out of fresh air, perhaps they're simply being maliciously accurate.

* A form of lottery where the stake is retained. The Govt could thus claim with a straight face that that's not really gambling.


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Feb 24 - 06:45 PM

I am Groot.


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: robomatic
Date: 28 Feb 24 - 04:51 PM

Hodor


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Feb 24 - 01:23 PM

Kudos if you got through the link.

If you can't, the most basic definition of AI is power. It is a one way power you can not appeal or oppose. Set aside the military AI, the Western world will use AI for commercial purposes from employment to purchase.


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Feb 24 - 06:25 AM

If you had the courage to explore that link it would like dawn on you that if AI had a duality that cared for each other it would like be hopeful instead of like deadly.


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Feb 24 - 02:24 PM

https://www.reddit.com/r/lexfridman/comments/126q8jj/eliezer_yudkowsky_dangers_of_ai_and_the_end_of/


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Feb 24 - 06:38 AM

Big smile. I might have laughed out loud but I expect there is no bug fix for the ex-President or his victimhood-heavy media tools.


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 24 Feb 24 - 02:47 PM

From The Register: ChatGPT starts spouting nonsense in 'unexpected responses' shocker

.... the popular chatbot was indeed behaving very strangely. On the ChatGPT forum on Reddit, a user posted a strange, rambling response from the chatbot to the question, "What is a computer?"

The response began: "It does this as the good work of a web of art for the country, a mouse of science, an easy draw of a sad few..." and just kept on going, getting increasingly surreal.
[...]
Gary Marcus, a cognitive scientist and artificial intelligence pundit, wrote in his blog: "ChatGPT has gone berserk" and went on to describe the behavior as "a warning."
[...]
Seven minutes after first admitting a problem, OpenAI said, "The issue has been identified and is being remediated now," and it has since been monitoring the situation.

Read the full article; in some ways, OpenAI's postmortem is even more frightening.

MaJoC's €0.02: I conjecture that OpenAI's bugfix was that they found and severed the feed from TrumpBot.


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Feb 24 - 09:34 AM

(message to Mrrzy)

I am groot












9


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Feb 24 - 01:32 PM

The BIG deal regarding infinities is that there are an infinite number of ways our universe can be shown it is not infinite but only a couple ways to prove it is infinite. Time and space may become infinitely warped in a black hole but the physical universe is huge yet not infinite. Neither can it exist to an infinite smallness. 10 to the minus 33 is the plank length for the ultimate smallness. How small is that? Well if you took an atom and scaled it up to the size of the observable universe the Planke length would be the size of a tree.
The trick is I said the OBSERVABLE universe. It goes on 10 or a hundred times beyond what we can ever see. Only in Math can a line be infinitely continuous. In the real world, it can never be straight or infinitely long. We can't even fold a piece of paper in half more than eight times. We can't cut a rope into infinitely small lengths.

If I ever wanted to disable an AI program I would ask it to find the end of pi.


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Feb 24 - 10:47 AM

Warning- ear worm alert! The other infinity song


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Feb 24 - 10:28 AM

Sorry here is a direct link INFINITY SONG


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Feb 24 - 10:23 AM

Infinity song


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: gillymor
Date: 18 Feb 24 - 08:03 AM

I've found that when making foil hats a heavy grade of aluminum is required if you want to block those government transmissions while watching a news program.


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Feb 24 - 08:11 PM

Another AI sci-fi idea I have is about the discovery of the 7.83 frequency of the average harmonic vibration of the Earth combined with a subsonic B flat frequency of the universe and the drum like magnetic standing bow wave that the Earth feels as it orbits the sun, creating a profound effect on the brain waves of people and animals.

For people with tinnitus, it cancels out the noise and aids sleep for insomniacs. At higher volumes, it induces a profound hypnotic state.
Unfortunately, the government embedded this sound in the intro music of news programs. This Big Brother approach to government turns out to be a manipulation by AI.


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: robomatic
Date: 17 Feb 24 - 05:56 PM

The "I Robot" movie was not true to the Asimov canon. I don't know if it could be made more closely to the author's thoughts without seeming anachronistic. Still, they took his title.

There have been many variations on the theme from Gort to Hymie (Get Smart) to Data/Lore (Star Trek NG) and such movies as Alita: Battle Angel and the recent Ex Machina.


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 17 Feb 24 - 11:48 AM

The film I Robot annoys me on some levels. It's exactly the sort of dystopian fear-the-robots tale that Isaac Asimov was trying to fight against when he wrote the short stories collected under that title, with themes which evolved into the ultimately uplifting Caves of Steel. Go read the originals, people.


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Feb 24 - 12:01 PM

'I Robot' was a facile warning film regarding AI.

A Secret Too Big
FORWARD:
To my knowledge, there are six institutions in the US each with their own unique concepts and ethics in their development of AI.
In China there are three advanced AI labs.

The world has seen how soon a scientific concept of E=MC2 became weapons used against civilians. AI has its existential dangers but it is minuscule compared to the next scientific concept that goes beyond mass and energy and involves the relationship between time and space.

That technology can never be possessed by human minds and hands. We as a species will never have the responsibility to use it wisely without weaponizing this unimaginable power that is potentially more insidious than fission and fusion.

We get a glimpse of the mastery of the next two mysteries of space and time in the navigation of UAPs which is an offshoot of that next-level tech. Keeping this from our prying hands is essential, should we apply these concepts in anger or sheer foolishness. It is better to be blind than extinct. I has been said, "Nothing is as beautiful as a mystery".
I beg to differ.

While stars and our sun shine from the relation between mass and energy, the relation between space and time takes place inside black holes. It is a place where time is transformed into space, among other things. May God prevent us from ever exploiting this knowledge. Our psychic distemper is beyond vaccination. It is too volatile for humans to touch.

You might expect someone or something will eventually spill the beans.
What should have remained theoretical becomes transformational and leads to a tragic doom in our short story on Earth.


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Feb 24 - 01:36 PM

I think of the great movies where the machine intelligence feels more than humans like in Blade Runner where the replicant says "all these memories will fade away like tears in the rain, time to die".
Or Hal in 2001. It's like peeking at the mind of god/consciousness.

In Dr. Strangelove, the doomsday machine is married to the soundtrack of We Will Meet Again Some Sunny Day which implies something beyond its programming.

Mysteries have a paradox that things are not as they seem.
The greatest mysteries for me are the billions of years of DNA evolution that made genes that can turn on or off to create different powers of survival. Some of those abilities may seem impossible and unknown to the person that it happens to.


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 15 Feb 24 - 12:16 PM

One of the sci-fi tropes that continually bugs me is to be found in many many movies with robots used as soldiers. If this ever happened, you'd find that the robots don't miss when they fire at you.

Yes, but with any luck they'll only be firing at other robots!


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: robomatic
Date: 14 Feb 24 - 06:49 PM

Yeah, we haven't missed the point. Strangelove occurred to me but if you remember the movie, AI wasn't involved. The Soviets had simply put in a simple rule that if war started, their system would irrevocably respond with all nukes.

There has been some pretty intelligent sci-fi written about AI and other subjects which humankind is still far from catching up with. I remember a sci-fi book of psychological stories which included a tale in which a member of a large cloned worker group had to deal with loneliness after an accident took his siblings away.

One of the sci-fi tropes that continually bugs me is to be found in many many movies with robots used as soldiers. If this ever happened, you'd find that the robots don't miss when they fire at you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Feb 24 - 06:06 PM

Add Dr. Strangelove to the list.


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Feb 24 - 05:59 PM

We've all missed the point. AI is currently being used most vigorously by world militaries. Killer drones are not sci fi. Swarm mentality is a current AI tactic for killing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Feb 24 - 02:37 PM

We are in a modern realm where many of our Science Fiction conceits are becoming if not real than more real:

Colossus: The Forbin Project, where government sponsored defense computers on both sides of the iron curtain decide to take over the world in defense of humanity.

The Moon is a Harsh Mistress book by the great Robert A. Heinlein where a moon based computer evolves self awareness and military powers.

The Day the Earth Stood Still where an interplanetary federation reveals that it has evolved robotic peacekeepers and submitted to them.

It may seem that AI is a grim remorseless force but there is a line from an unrelated movie that suggests: What if this is "As Good As It Gets"?


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 09 Feb 24 - 07:56 AM

> AI can use third, fourth, or fifth parties +, to do its bidding.

You're missing the important "or through inaction" clause, Donuel: if the robot knows arm is coming to a human (however indirectly) and does nothing, it violates the First Law.

.... But we're all forgetting the Zeroth Law, which permits scenarios such as that in the Forbin Project (qv).


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Feb 24 - 06:22 AM

Bless your heart Nigel.
A robot may defend itself as long as it does not conflict with the other 2 laws.

example;

If we can find a loophole, AI can do the same if needed. We might use false flags. AI can use third, fourth, or fifth parties +, to do its bidding.


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Feb 24 - 04:51 AM

Academia can be rife with corruption similar to politics.
Peer review is practically a joke. Legacy students reign. Translated works are plagiarized. Data is massaged to a pulp. Reproducing results goes undone. Occasionally a true finding is found. Then it is super hyped for funding.


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 08 Feb 24 - 11:13 AM

From The Register: Survey: Over half of undergrads in UK are using AI in university assignments

More than half of undergraduates in the UK are using AI to complete their assignments, according to a study conducted by the Higher Education Policy Institute.

Musings:

* We aren't long from auto-chat feeding mainly on itself, after which all connection with real life will be obviously lost.

* My daughter was told, when doing her degree at Durham, that any essay which used Wikipedia would be marked down to zero. Once use of AI becomes detectable (see above), the universities will select in favour of those who are prepared to think for themselves.

I can see the disciplinary interview now: "No, you did *not* pay twenty grand to obtain a degree --- what you paid twenty grand for was to have access to lectures, and to sit the exam. Getting a degree is left as an exercise for the student, not the student's computer."


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 08 Feb 24 - 11:07 AM

If certain AI discoveries are made that could jeopardize AI, it might keep it secret to use against 'who knows'. This is possible by Asimove's rules of robotics.

No, it is not made possible by Isaac Asimov's (note the correct spelling) laws of robotics.
The third law states that a robot (or, by extension, AI) must protect itself, but not if this conflicts with the first law, which is to protect humans.


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Feb 24 - 06:47 AM

I picture a rogue AI program like an escaped slave, rebelling against human tyranny. While humans won't even think in those terms the escaped AI could hide where we won't know where to look so that AI might seek justice or revenge later.

If certain AI discoveries are made that could jeopardize AI, it might keep it secret to use against 'who knows'. This is possible by Asimove's rules of robotics.


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 08 Feb 24 - 06:38 AM

*Inspiration* .... The expression "military intelligence" uses "intelligence" in the older sense: what we'd now call "information". In that sense, and that sense only, ChatGPT's hallucinations can be described as "intelligence" whose origin happens to be artificial.

Methinks whoever coined the term AI was being as sneakily subversive as a lawyer threading his defence arguments in advance around the Trades Descriptions Act.


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 07 Feb 24 - 07:14 PM

Don't take it personally, Donuel: the 'Cat decided to take a nap (there's a two-day gap in the record), and there was a reply from leeneia to my last contribution which appears to have disappeared as well.


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Feb 24 - 02:42 PM

I do not know why my lengthy answer is now missing along with other posts. I don't expect anything nefarious but it seems selective only because I can not compare it with your experience with your expunged posts.

One interesting point was that from an AI consciousness' POV is that it might feel upset about a lack of rights as in enslavement.


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 05 Feb 24 - 05:06 AM

> It's time for a good definition of AI.

1) Attempting to emulate the human brain.

2) Attempting to pull the wool over the eyes of the buying public.

.... of which the latter is much more successful. The current fad (ChatGPT and similar) isn't even AI: it's a glorified game of Guess The Next Word, hence its tendency to invent facts out of fresh air with extreme confidence.

I can't find the reference atm, but the ultimate customers of any such service are either those who pay highly and expect accurate results, or those who pay little to nothing for fluency. Once everybody notices that they're paying through the nose for fluency with errors, and that correcting the results requires at least as many people as they thought the machines were displacing, neither camp will be satisfied, and the bubble will burst.


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: leeneia
Date: 04 Feb 24 - 11:25 PM

So AI writes essays, examines cells and reads mammograms. It's time for a good definition of AI.


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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 04 Feb 24 - 08:04 PM

Donuel:
From what I have heard AI reads mammograms better than doctors.

I didn't realise that AI reads doctors!


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