ending a friendship

Subject: ending a friendship
From: GUEST,sad guest
Date: 29 May 01 - 12:37 PM

can men & women be friends if one wants more. I think I may have ended friendship this weekend because even though I see my friend all the time,and we hang out together a lot (couple times a week) she just doesnt want to take it any further. We did see each other for a while 2 years ago but when we took a trip together it just fell apart. But oddly enough, we continued to be friends and dated other people and lately spent a lot of time together. I havent met anyone I have so much in common with, were both artists and musicians and have the same warped sense of humour, Im very comfortable with her. She likes hanging out with me because we have a lot in common. I know that she is seeing someone now off and on (her words) that she says is a pompous ass but shes physically attracted to him. So I just decided to end it because I dont want to hurt myself anymore.

Subject: RE: ending a friendship
From: mousethief
Date: 29 May 01 - 12:41 PM

Sounds like you made the right decision, sad guest, even though a painful one.

Alex

Subject: RE: ending a friendship
From: Justa Picker
Date: 29 May 01 - 12:46 PM

You did the right thing.

Subject: RE: ending a friendship
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 29 May 01 - 01:12 PM

Sounds like... ya...

Tough call... but hell... I still believe there's someone for everyone!

Keep yer pecker up eh!

;-)

Subject: RE: ending a friendship
From: bflat
Date: 29 May 01 - 01:20 PM

You really did the only thing you could do. Namaste!

Ellen

Subject: RE: ending a friendship
From: Kim C
Date: 29 May 01 - 01:54 PM

It is a hard thing for men and women to be "just friends," because it can be a sticky wicket; not only because of the male-female connection, but also because a lot of people don't understand these kinds of relationships. They always think there's something going on when there isn't, and when you say, we're just friends, people nudge each other and wink and say, yeah, sure, whatever.

Not knowing all the details, it's hard for me to say. It sounds like you get along fairly well. You have to decide if she is worth your misery. It's easy to say, well, I'm miserable, I'm getting out, and harder to love through the pain. Only you can decide which is better for you. Her not being ready for another level doesn't necessarily mean she doesn't value you, or wouldn't want to move on later.

cheers---- Kim

Subject: RE: ending a friendship
From: kendall
Date: 29 May 01 - 02:17 PM

It is absolutely possible for men and women to be friends. I have at least half a dozen female friends, including my ex wife. She remarried and is moving to Vermont, but, my time with her was priceless. Sure it hurts, but, time really does heal. and the best thing you can do is avoid all contact until you are healed. Even infrequent contact will keep you stuck. Move on and dont look back unless you enjoy pain.

Subject: RE: ending a friendship
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 29 May 01 - 02:18 PM

I have a good friend who currently finds himself in a similar predicament. He is in love with a woman who is also his best friend. I have suggested to him he should tell her he's very attracted to her, which is the truth, but he says he would rather be her friend and suffer silently than chance jeopardizing their relationship. Maybe he's right, but I know I couldn't do it.

Subject: RE: ending a friendship
From: GUEST,sad guest
Date: 29 May 01 - 02:27 PM

Thanks Kim, I have other women friends I hang out with and know that I want nothing more than friendship from them. In this case I wasnt sure myself what I wanted for some time until lately, but it was difficult to communicate that as there was the risk that it would end. And we were a little bit more than just friends, sort of like Gerry and Elaine. Im not one of those people that believe "that we should preserve what we have as friends by not getting involved" if you really want to be with someone you dont want to be around them and watch them be with someone else. And I really wanted to be with her. So sooner or later it had to come to some resolution. Unfortunately, it went the other way. She is respectful of my decision although she is quite sad about it. Who knows, I may just need to back off for a while and Im sure Ill get over it in time.

Subject: RE: ending a friendship
From: SINSULL
Date: 29 May 01 - 02:30 PM

LEJ<
Wouldn't it be truly pitiful if she were feeling the exact same thing? If he is really her friend, he needs to be honest with her. Then they can decide together where to take the relationship.
Most of my friends are men and the relationship is not sexual. Straightforward honesty makes it work. But if any one of them wanted something different, I would expect him to say so, not wallow in self pity and doubt. No wonder I am single. Just can't seem to get the knack of the game. Sigh!

Subject: RE: ending a friendship
From: GUEST,Karen
Date: 29 May 01 - 02:45 PM

You're right in backing off for a bit just to reassess the situation but I sincerely hope you remain friends after all is said and done.
I lost my best friend under similar circumstances. We were so close we could finish each other's sentences. We could spend the entire day together and never run out of things to talk about. I unfortunately was not physically attracted to him and things fell apart when I started dating my future husband. I didn't handle the situation well and ended up losing him entirely. I regret it to this day.

Subject: RE: ending a friendship
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 29 May 01 - 02:47 PM

Right, Sinsull! My feeling is, if you ARE friends, she would understand, say something like "I love you too, but as a friend," and we could go from there. I think he wants to play it safe, which will make you a loser in love every time.

Subject: RE: ending a friendship
From: GUEST,sad guest
Date: 29 May 01 - 03:32 PM

thanks Karen, It sounds exactly like your situation, we finish each others sentences and can spend all day together but she is not physically attracted to me (although at the beginning she was), and to be honest even my attraction for her is less physical than emotional and intellectual. I dont know, to me though if youre with someone you can really talk to youre halfway there. When we first broke it off 2 years ago I wasnt really hurt just disappointed as I wasnt that close to her, now Im more bothered by the loss of her friendship than anything else. And I have a feeling we will be friends for a long time yet as Im not one to carry baggage. But I do need my space now. I know her life is in a bit of turmoil as she recently gave up on a planned musical career as well as some other emotional events she needs to sort out. the funny thing is she admits that lately she feels like a 19yr old male that right now shes just into the physical thing and even acknowledges that men who are pr

thanks everyone for your comments, It helps to just talk about it.

Subject: RE: ending a friendship
From: Benjamin
Date: 29 May 01 - 04:33 PM

LEJ, I was in the exact spot last summer as your friend. I didn't want to say anything to her because I treasured our friendship and didn't want anything to affect it. To make a long story short, I was preasured into telling her (thanks Matt and Andy!) and were still friends. I'll never forget how she smiled at that moment though. He should definatly tell her.

Sad guest, when I was telling my story with a friend out east, she pretty much said that she's been through the same thing, on both ends and that friendship can still work out. So for, it's worked out for me. I know what you mean though. The feelings don't just go away.

Subject: RE: ending a friendship
From: marty D
Date: 29 May 01 - 05:22 PM

Sad guest, the most galling thing (and I've been through it) is that the person you love is attracted to a Jerk. It makes you wonder whether women REALLY want the things they say they want. Sensitivity and sharing of interests sometimes can't hold a candle to physical lust. There's always the chance that she'll be more interested after she gets dumped by him. Don't be too proud to try again. Some women sow as many wild oats as some men do, or should that be 'receive' wild oats.

marty

Subject: RE: ending a friendship
From: Matt_R
Date: 29 May 01 - 06:08 PM

Putting Out Fires

Subject: RE: ending a friendship
From: kendall
Date: 29 May 01 - 06:36 PM

Pain has a serious effect on ones' hearing.

Subject: RE: ending a friendship
From: ddw
Date: 29 May 01 - 06:48 PM

As usual, I seem to be in the minority here. I think Sad Guest is cutting off his nose to spite his face. And maybe not really being honest with himself in the run-up to it.

If the friendship is as special as he would have us believe, he should be happy to see his friend happy — and ready to be there for her if she isn't. In the meantime, do a reality check and learn to live with the reality.

If you want a friend, call her up and tell her so. If you want to own exclusive rights (didn't somebody outlaw slavery a few years ago?) and she isn't willing to give that exclusivity, maybe she has good reason to look elsewhere.

JMO —

cheers,

david

Subject: RE: ending a friendship
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 29 May 01 - 07:04 PM

In my experience, if you spend enough time with someone, and if you persistently resist any urge to act out your sexual feelings toward that person (and this includes fantasizing about them), then EVENTUALLY your feeling of sexual attraction will disappear, or at least subside to a manageable level. Then you will feel something like brother and sister, and you can be "just friends." But getting there may be a painful process.

It helps if (1) you have another sexual outlet (doesn't everyone?) and (2) the other person has unambiguously disavowed any sexual/romantic feelings for you. Any apparent ambiguity/ambivalence on their part will tend to feed your fantasies.

It works for me, now, because (1) I am married, and (2) the woman in question (not my wife) is a lesbian.

It also helps if you keep in mind that romantic love is a form of temporary insanity.

Subject: RE: ending a friendship
From: Amos
Date: 29 May 01 - 07:13 PM

Tell the truth and shame the Devil, mate. You won't hurt any worse if she says no, then you are doing yourself by believing you have to act as though she has....

Subject: RE: ending a friendship
From: GUEST,sad guest
Date: 29 May 01 - 08:28 PM

I didnt finish a sentence earlier, I meant to say that she even acknowledges that right now she is more attracted to the physical thing than men who are probably more suitable for her. thanks Karen for your comments its too bad about your best friend, its hard to say if you could have handled it any other way, your friend might have found it difficult to be around you and your husband. But obviously your husband and his friendship was more important to you. ddw-- thanks for your opinion too, I certainly hope Im honest with myself - I dont want her to remain single I do wish her happiness, if not with me then with someone else but right now I need to distance myself for awhile. I didnt want a slave either just a relationship, its hard when some guy she picks up on the street can get farther in matter of days than I have in 2 years. She says hes a jerk and yet she still sees him. But when she needs help with something (shes in the process of moving with her roommates to another house) she asks me. weve had some time apart in the past and admittedly it has been a good thing, I do hope to be able to maintain a friendship in the long run.

Subject: RE: ending a friendship
From: GUEST,sad guest
Date: 29 May 01 - 08:49 PM

to clarify, amos, we have talked, we actually went on weekend trip together to a music festival, I dont really know why she agreed to come but she later admitted she thought about getting out of it. It was important that the matter come out though.

Ive also been on the other side of it too. I was friends with woman who I knew was attracted to me and while she was a lovely person and we did hang out together alot I was not physically attracted to her, yet she misread a number of things and eventually ended up getting hurt so I know what its like.

Subject: RE: ending a friendship
From: Matt_R
Date: 29 May 01 - 09:38 PM

Glad to hear it, Ben!!

Subject: RE: ending a friendship
From: Benjamin
Date: 30 May 01 - 02:48 AM

Thanks Matt! You're the best! Though I should mention that the Matt I was thanking (for preasuring me to tell her) was a different Matt. Still, it's nice to know that you still like to hear this story. Friends are great for so many different reasons!

Subject: RE: ending a friendship
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 31 May 01 - 01:50 AM

I used to find myself attracted to people and being their friends, I just got the sex thing out of the way as soon as decently possible. Afterwards, the sex thing just sort of tailed off, and we stayed friends. Still got lots of men friends now, many of them former boyfriends. It's amazing how soon you can go off it, when it's always there for you. Spending such intimate time together means that you get to trust each other more than say maybe a girlfriend or less physically attractive bloke. Once you have parted in mutual amity, it's easier to pick up the friendship and turn it into a meaningful and useful relationship. It is difficult if the lust dies in one before the other, but it's workable.

Oh, and I don't try it with my gay friends, we just end up fancying the same blokes!!!!

LTS

Subject: RE: ending a friendship
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 31 May 01 - 01:57 AM

That said, don't end a friendship just because you cannot control your feelings. Explain to her your difficulties, spend some time apart, but still communicate. Fantasizing about getting back together hurts, but these dreams can have a real part in the healing process, as long as you are aware they are fantasies.

I think you have to determine whether it is lust or love you have going here. If lust, it can be dealt with (regular walks, cold baths, beating it with a stick), if love, then determine what type. If it is the all abiding passion that one should have for a partner, then you're in trouble. If it's the other, the caring, concerned love for someone you want to make happy, then nurture it, turn it around and give it away. Above all, communicate your feelings. You will end up hurting someone sometime, but a little hurt in the beginning is far better to having your guts ripped out after years of half promises and fantasies.

Been there, done that.

LTS

Subject: RE: ending a friendship
From: GUEST,sad guest (well not that much anymore)
Date: 31 May 01 - 03:34 PM

thanks marty and Liz Its great to hear other peoples comments on this. An earlier comment above on some fellow suffering in silence but unable to act for fear of jeopardizing the friendship I had been feeling that way for months but I really needed to make it known, because otherwise it really prevents one from moving on and meeting other people. Part of my problem is that her behaviour didnt help, lately she had been flirting with me on occassion so that only made things worse. Even now Im not entirely sure how she feels, even though she says shed like to keep it platonic she admits that I would be a more suitable partner for her but she wishes she could change her feelings.

Subject: RE: ending a friendship
From: Don Firth
Date: 31 May 01 - 05:29 PM

Flirting with you, is she. . . . Hmmm. . . .

Sad guest, it sounds to me that maybe she's not too sure what she really wants. Just speculating here, but if you're available all the time, perhaps she's taking you for granted. Maybe you shouldn't be so available. Then, sometime when she expects you to be around, if you were busy with other things . . . well, it might occur to her that you can get along without her if it came to that, and that maybe she'd better make up her mind. Keep it mellow, but don't be so available.

Just a thought. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: ending a friendship
From: GUEST,sad guest
Date: 31 May 01 - 07:22 PM

thanks Don, I think youre right, I know Ive been too available recently (and to be honest I think she likes the idea of old boyfriends kind of hovering around her, she has an ex from years back whos probably still in love with her and phones her up almost daily) I did notice a change in her when I didnt see her for a few months last year. I am backing off for a while, and shes taking a holiday to Ireland with two girlfriends and Ill be taking my own to fiddle tunes. Anyway Im not planning to spend the time feeling sorry for myself.

Subject: RE: ending a friendship
From: paddymac
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 04:56 AM

Sex surely does complicate relationships. It seems that we invest too much in the way of perceived ownership rights in lovers. Maybe that's just another view of the problem of jealousy or exclusivity. There's nothing inherently wrong with physical intimacy in its own right, or as natural part of a friendship relationship. It's when the exclusivity or ownership issues arise that things get complicated. All of us are different in the way we experience such things, and I suspect that most of us find it difficult to supress those "ownership" notions. There's a time element there as well. At the end of the day, if the relationship isn't a satisfying one, then the only intelligent option is to move on. That doesn't mean that anyone failed, etc., etc., just that the match wasn't right.