BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: GUEST,Claymore
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 11:37 AM

Bobert,

Maybe you'll feel better knowing that all the regular Federal benefits are given to the new employees of HS, so there won't be any widows crying in the snow, etc. The biggest changes will be in hiring (no Fed first policy) firing (no extensive documentation and several year appeals) transfers (you come from DOT, you are now HS and do it our way) and work rules (no two week notification, be on the plane to Bogata tonight). But sorry to tell you Bobert, Boss Hogg left in that funny orange car that kept jumping over everything... and the Social Security issue is not only not a part of the HS issue, the Dems have even stopped using the "SS being raided" issue, 'cause no one believes them any more - look at Florida.

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: DougR
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 10:08 PM

kat: in all fairness, you did not represent them as authorities. However, when one posts and provides a blue clickie, some folks could take it that that is what one is doing. I read both pieces you recommended, and what I read was opinions by writers who obviously could not be accused of being objective. The burden is on the reader, I admit, but not everyone is as objective as you and I.

I don't know whether the criticizms of White are valid or not. He hasn't been charged with anything as far as I know. If he is, is tried and convicted, I'll join the writers you referred us to in hanging him (figuratively of course).

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: NicoleC
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 06:26 PM

Bobert, if elections are called off or martial law is declared, it'll be far too late to leave...

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: katlaughing
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 05:54 PM

Doug, nowhere did I claim Kick or Hightower as authorities; I said their commentaries might be of interest to some. It is easy enough to see White's resume has been scaled down, when it comes to all of his "experience" at Enron, by a quick check at the DoD site. If you want to believe he is innocent, that's your right, but this guy stinks to high heaven and I don't think it's cause he rolled in some cow pie like a dog, either.

I don't really consider Lieberman fit to be called a Democrat much anymore, but his proposal was a far cry from what Dumbya nad his handlers have turned this bill into. As you can see, Lieberman's was geared more towards our borders, rather our citizens:

On May 2, Sen Joseph Lieberman (D-Conn.) introduced a bill to set up a Dept. of National Homeland Security that would include the Federal Emergency Management Agency, U.S. Customs Service, Border Patrol an Immigration and Naturalization Service enforcement and Coast Guard.

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 05:53 PM

Well, Claymore, I figgured you'd come down on Boss Hog's side with the collective bargaining. Now, I hope that Boss Hog is real nice to his workers but he sure don't have a good track record once he gets his goons to bust up unions. As fir myself, yeah you can call me a commie, a socialists or whatever, but with the Social Security system getting ready to be raided by Boss Hog's boys, I am concerned about folks who will reach retirement age and have nuthin'. Sure, it's real easy to say, "Well ya' sghould have thought about that a long time a go, *Like I did*, and you wouldn't be in this mess. Unfortunatetly, one size does not fit all. Especially when the male of the household bolts leaving the woman to raise kids by herself. Or someone gets real sick and their HMO tells 'em they're cancelled. Yeah, there is a mulititude of things that can happen and that's exactly why I'd ike to think that those folks who put it on the line for their country, will not die in poverty. This is a real possibility if you go to work for the Homeland Security Department the way it is set up!

Nah, Dougie. I'd hate to leave this mountain. I got a lot of blood, swaet and tears right here in this house that I built and my 5 acres of woods and gardens. But if your guy either calls off elections or decl;ares martial law, I'm out of here.

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: DougR
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 05:11 PM

Claymore: duck!

Bobert: I don't want you running off to Canada, Bobert! You're easier to pick on in WV. I'm glad your wife taught those boys of hers the right way to vote. I can't figure out why she has been such a dismal failure when it comes to you though. :>)

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: GUEST,Claymore
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 04:12 PM

A little education folks; the Department of Homeland Security was first proposed by Democrats (Liberman, et al). The President was accused of stealing the idea, when he adopted it.

The bill has a clause that states the Congress will revisit the provisions at stated intervals, such as one year, two years and four years. Since the pharmaceutical lawsuit question is included in the review provisions, I'm certain that any percieved abuses will be taken care of. I did note that one of the bargining points for the Republicans back when the Dems held the Senate, was to insure that real damages were paid, but that punative damages ( the Dems Trial Lawyers waterhole) would be capped. The Dems couldn't have their biggest supporters not getting the pork fall-out from a war-time necessity, so now they have nothing for the time being. And for Gods sake don't panic, we're not in a vacine disbursement stage yet, and with little chance of it happening anytime soon. (I am certain the Chicken Little Types will see this differently, but when I see someone claiming we are headed towards Global Nuclear War, I tend to suspect these folks have smoked too many joints without a helmet...).

The hooting loonies aside, it reads like a reasonable bill which will undergo numerous changes in the next couple of years. The smartest provision keeps the Federal labor unions out of the Department, which will increase efficiency and save millions. As one who works with many such Federal employees, I applaude that provision.

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: NicoleC
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 03:58 PM

Uh, you mean other than the *military?*

I'd love to visit Canada (plan to, next year), but I'd hate to move there just to leave the US. It's like saying, "Go ahead, take my country from me."

Maybe all this will help me drum up support for the Independant Republic of California. All we gotta do is stop exporting food. It may be easy to take the cities, but it'd be awfully hard to harvest all the food and milk all those cows to take back to the rest of the US :)

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 03:23 PM

Yep, Nicole, and the only one that the President can use and abuse purdy much as he or she sees fit. Like spying on the opposition and making lots and lots of those lists that once you're on, you don't get off.

This thing is real insane. Canada is lookin' better and better... fir real.

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: NicoleC
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 02:52 PM

LOL, Bobert. You know, the new Dept is the 3rd largest in the Government now?

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 02:44 PM

What they ought to do, Kendall, is to take a page out of Ronnie Ray-gun's book and start callin Junior and his boys *liberals* fir wanting such an intrusive governemnt. Yeap, a couple weeks of hearing Dems going around calling the Trent Lotts, Dick Army's, Bush's a bunch of *big government liberals* and you have a new ball game.

Then, it's flag time.

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: kendall
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 02:33 PM

I'm going to suggest that all Democrats wrap themselves in the flag and spout patriotic crap the next time around.

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 01:49 PM

Well, Kendall and Doug, the area of Wes Ginny that I live in still ain't broken away from the CSA. There are more confedrate flags back in this holler than one would expect to find back in the sticks in Georgia.

Doug: Hey, I just call it the way I see it. The term *redneck* probably doesn't hold the same meaning for the two of us. Like I just said, I live in a purdy6 danged redneck area but lots of these folks are also, ahhh, *friends*. My wife's three sons, all in their 30's and all college edgy-cated, live in North Carolina and all three ar, well, what I consider *rednecks* because they are more interested in NASCAR and bass fishing than actually reading anything but the sports pages of their newspaper, yet they are very emotional about their political beliefs which do not go beyond what they have read from a bumper sticker. Hey, they are great kids. Just don't know nuthin' about whats going on in the US or the world. You'd be proud of 'em 'cause they all voted for Bush and will agin in '04. Like I said, *red necks*, but I love 'em all...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: kendall
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 12:44 PM

Doug, West Virginia broke away from Virginia in, I think, 1862 and stayed with the union.

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: DougR
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 12:37 PM

Bobert, were I living in the South, I think I might be a bit offended by the tone of your November 20, 5:26 P.M. post. I'd likely reply that not all southerners are "red necks," and most have sense enough to come in out of the rain. You really think southerners are as dumb as you paint them? Isn't West Virginia considered as being in the South?

I'm beginning to wonder if the loss of the election hasn't affected your, uh ...sensibilities. I worry about you. :>)

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: DougR
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 12:28 PM

So Russ Kick and Jim Hightower are offered as authorities on Secretary White? What makes them authorities on the subject, kat? Isn't it condemnation enough that White was a CORPORATE executive? I don't recall reading that White has been charged with any crime. Has he been? What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 10:58 AM

Well, since the passage of the HS Bill is now history, I have taken the liberty as the originator of this thread to move on towards trying to unravel the implications and have satrted a new thread entitled...

"Spy Cameras in Every Bedroom?"...

...and would invite folks to bring their thoughts to that thread.

Thanks,

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 10:43 AM

Well, the Barkeley BushBoy helped tip the scales. Soon we will have the elected Minnesota BushBoy to help things along.

The Best BushBoy flash animations can be viewed here:

http://www.bushboy.com/

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: kendall
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 10:34 AM

The fact is, as long as we want a free and open society, we will be vulnerable to terrorist attacks. So, it looks like the hoodlums in Washington are bound to take away our rights to protect our freedom.

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: NicoleC
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 05:37 PM

In the interest of fairness, I'll admit that the bill isn't all bad. I think it's hopelessly flawed -- in the rush to pass SOMETHING we'll be crippled by this law for years. I was just digging through Thomas trying to find some of the good stuff:

Any and all activities of the Federal Government to implement the proposed component program of the Citizen Corps known as Operation TIPS (Terrorism Information and Prevention System) are hereby prohibited.

Well, we've been thrown a bone, anyway :)

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 05:26 PM

Nicole:

Hey, I *agree* with you entirely on your take on the '04 election, and perhaps the '06 midterms. The point I was making was that without the support *Southern Man*, the Repubs will loose big and for the last two decades, they have had *Bubba* in their hip pocket. All they gotta do is wave a flag and show up at a few NASCAR races and the South is in their column.

Problem is that it is folks in the South who suffer the most from Boss Hog's "Right to Work" (14-B, Taft Hartley Act) and there will come a time when from paying off Juniors big war debt, no money to keep granny at the nursing home and Bubba is gonna be ripe fir pickin'. He ain't yet but the operative word is yet. Give Junior unfettered access to Bubba's kid's to kill, Bubba's wallet and couple that with Bubba now having to come home from work, rather than stop at the bar and talk NASCAR, to take care of Granny and pick up them expensive medications fir her on the way home and, ohhhhhhh, bye, bye Repubs and Hello Repubocrats.

The only twist on this is that there is an outside chance that the Dems will get oput of the *cash grab* business and become a a party of leadership and opposition but the odds are very much against this happening...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 05:01 PM

The fellow who heads the Army now, Secretary Thomas White, was a big Enron exec. He's the one who will obstensibly be in charge of all of the data gathering under this bill. A quick peak at his resume before the Enron scandal and after is quite revealing: The Memory Hole.

Also, I would urge anyone who is interested to go to Jim Hightower's website and read some of his archived commentaries, esp. the one called Voter Owned Elections. It can happen and these people are proving it! It's enough to give a person real hope!

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: DougR
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 04:55 PM

Kendall: yep, I've seen that movie.
Whale shit? Is that lower than Llama shit? Mouse shit?

Nicole: As far as I'm concerned they can strike the amendment you refer to also. The one about corporations with off-shore bank accounts.

They could also strike the amendment that establishes a research center at Texas A&M University too and it wouldn't upset me. If they are going to establish a research center they should allow other qualified universities to bid on receiving it. I think they should justify establishing one in the first place though. Bobert, I'm a bit surprised the Repubs didn't make your Senator Byrd an offer he simply would not be able to refuse ...his support in exchange for establishing the center at the University of West Virginia. :>)

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: kendall
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 04:43 PM

I just wrote to both my senators and I really tore them a new A*****e.

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: TIA
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 03:17 PM

Doesn't the title alone "Department of Homeland Security" sound fascist? Ooops, now GW is going to be all pissy at *me* for making a Hitler reference.

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: kendall
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 03:09 PM

"The people, sir, are a great mob; unfit to govern themselves" an elitist named Alexander Hamilton.

Doug, have you ever seen the film "The Third Man"? Harry Lime's justification for his rotten business was.."Switzerland has had 500 years of peace and quiet, and what have they produced? The Coo Coo clock.
Once again, less than half the people voted; proving that we get the kind of government we deserve, and, that bad leaders are elected by good people who don't vote.
I am thoroughly disgusted with every son of a bitch who voted for that bill; they are lower than whale shit.

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: NicoleC
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 02:34 PM

I question how statements like "the majority of Americans support this" (or not -- I'm guilty myself) can be made when 95% of the actual contents aren't yet known. Ouch.

The provision about off-shore tax shelters is pretty nauseating, too. Too bad only corporations get a "get out of jail free" card to cheat on their taxes in perpetuity. If I hid money in a Cayman Islands bank account, I'd serve time in prison.

Prediction: over the next two years, the Democrats will make a big deal about fillibustering and working against the Republicans on a few specific but not very important issues where they have tacit permission to do so. ANWAR, for example, while still supporting an energy policy that does nothing to address the dwindling oil supplies and needing to support other energy sources. Then, in two years, the Democrats will pat themselves on the back around election time for "standing up" to the Republican majority, even though they'll have doen nothing of any consequence.

Meanwhile, the Republicans will STILL claim that they couldn't get the legislation through the they wanted to because the Democrats were being (watch for this word) "obstructionist." Any big errors or problems with Republican legislation will still be because of the Democrats and how slim the majority is.

You see, I disagree with you Bobert. After all this grandstanding is done, the American public won't be blaming the Republicans for anything... it'll still be the Democrat's fault for being "obstructionist," see?

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 02:15 PM

I'd like to see it removed, but I totally agree with you on it not applying to retroactive cases. thanks, Doug.

Spaw, missed your posting...I've got you vomiting, my "other" Roger feels like crying, and the rest of us are everything in between....exciting times, I guess, huh? Fuck is right!

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: DougR
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 02:02 PM

I don't think it should be retroactive, kat. I don't buy that at all, and would like to see it limited to those drugs that relate to the war on terrorism.

Nicole: but I didn't gloat! :>)

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 01:51 PM

Thanks, Nicole, for pointing that out. Doug, it is retroactive not even just for war-related vaccines!

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: catspaw49
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 01:51 PM

Pardon my non-participation here, but I have been reviewing this shit in depth on another site and at this point I am about to vomit over the whole thing.

Two points.......I am saddened that it looks as if the majority of the American people actually support this. We are in real trouble on that one. Good, solid, upstanding Americans, the salt of the earth, the common clay of the country.......you know....morons (paraphasing Mel Brooks). It also seems that it will be damn near impossible to get the toothpaste back in the tube since the tube has also been thrown out. Just fuck me.............Lemmee just join up with the assholes....

GO OHIO STATE....WE'RE NUMBER ONE.....BEAT MICHIGAN!!!!

rah..rah..rah...fuckin' A rah.....

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: NicoleC
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 01:31 PM

Doug, if the amendment had been limited to the kind of situation where a mass innoculation is required, or in the wake of a bio-terror event, etc., it might be reasonable in a Security act. Pharm companies are given incentive to develop because a) the preliminary research is almost always done at taxpayer expense in major universities, b) there's this thing called a "patent." It's why we have drugs that cost $500 a bottle until the patent expires. It's also why most drug companies spend 5-10x the money on marketing that they do on research.

Unfortunately, the amendment is worded specifically to limit manufacturer's liabilities for ALL vaccines. So if Big Pharm Co, Inc. decides it's not cost effective to practice good hygiene or hire competant personnel, a few thousand kids could die of a bad batch of measles vaccine and the parents can't hold them responsible even if it's due to negligence.

If you don't think big corporations make those kind of cost of lawsuit liability vs. cost of safety assessments, you don't remember the Ford Pinto.

It's a payback for millions of dollars in campaign contributions; vaccine manufacturers have been pushing for this for years. There are hundreds of cases pending against vaccine manufacturers for kids who died or became autistic after being vaccinated. All of those cases have just been tossed out before being heard on their merits.

Yep, Doug, they ALL want to be re-elected. And we know how well the Dem's strategy of being almost-Republicans has worked in getting Dems elected. Just a couple of weeks ago, you were happy as a clam at how well it worked Nov 5th :)

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: DougR
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 01:08 PM

Kendall: on the pharmaceutical lawsuit question, the argument for that particular amendment, I believe, is: serums to combat a variety of germs that that might be used as biological weapons in the war against terrorism will be needed. Many of them may not yet exist and when they are developed by pharmaceutical companies may carry risks for a percentage of the population that uses them, just as the small pox serum does. If the companies are subject to law suits filed by the families of those affected, it might discourage the companies from developing them.

I believe that is the reasoning behind including that particular amendment, and why they felt it belonged in the Homeland Security Bill.

You do not have to agree with it, of course, but I believe that is why they included it.

It does not seem unreasonable to me.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 01:05 PM

You're absolutely right, Doug, until they discover that's it's too danged late to speak up in protest. Yep, talk about unfettered access to the working mans wallet, privacy and lives, whew....

Like I've said before, the problem is that if you take the undereductated southern working class rednecks out of the equation the Repub party becomes a woefully minority party. When these working class folks figgure it out they are gonna bolt as fast as they bolted from the Dems two decades ago. When that happens, there won't be enough wars and falgs to get 'em back.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

And don't get gettin' all pouty on me, Dougie. I ain't talking about you here. Youm got smarts, unlike the folks Iz talkin' about. You just happen to be, well, ahhh, a tad on the partisan side and more than a tad on the conservative side...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: DougR
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 12:55 PM

Nicole: I'm not convinced that the majority of the U. S. population will be upset about the vote in the senate. The ethics of Senators can be questioned, perhaps, but they are not stupid. They ALL want to be re-elected. I certainly have not seen or heard about any polls that support your view on that point. Had the vote have been closer, you might be right.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: NicoleC
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 12:19 PM

I expected the bill to pass, damaging amendments and all, but the final tally was a slap in the face. The Senate did not even vaguely represent their constituants, and individual Senators did not vote in a way that represented their stated idealogy.

How many Senators said to the newspapers, "I think this is a bad bill, but I'm going to vote for it anyway." By hiding behind the dubious safety of a PR version of patriotism, I think a lot of Senators will lose their jobs. After all, I'd rather vote for a person with who I disagreed provided he acted with integrity and lived up to his promises, than to vote for someone who claims to share my idealogy but clearly doesn't have the courage to behave that way.

So... Philosophical question - has the US Senate become irrelevant?

The Senate has yet again failed in it's responsibility to independantly weigh the matter -- the cornerstone of our government. At 500 pages, the bill was literally too long for them to study, let alone READ!, before the vote. So has our Senate become a rubber stamp? A minor procedural hurdle for the President?

And what else is buried in those 500 unread pages that's now law?

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: GUEST,Hagbardr
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 11:37 AM

It's amazing the disregard Shrub, Ashcroft, and the Congress have for the Constitution and for personal liberties... looks like Orwell was 20 years too early.

--Hagbardr

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated --the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: kendall
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 11:23 AM

There are none so blind as those who WILL not see.

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 11:11 AM

Forget it, Kendall. Junior and Co. will win or steal that one, too. I called the last election and this is going to be the way it is until the rednecks figure out that Repubs are greedier than the Dems. Yeah, junior will be able to drape the flag around himself like a protective robe and hold off the naked truths until the midterms in '06. He'll have his war going and he'll just get a few NASCAR drivers to do a few commercials and it will be a *done deal*. Guarenteed!

And the Dems. will be scratching their heads again which they are getting real good at, I might add.

Sorry to be the one to lay this on ya, pal, but it's the way I see it...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: kendall
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 10:09 AM

Senator Byrd did bring home the bacon. True. BUt, I repeat what the hell has limiting the amount of liability in bad drug suits to do with Homeland security? This is way beyond pork! This is an outrage!
"Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad with power."
If we can just hang on until 2004.

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 08:32 AM

...and I always thought Conservatives were generally opposed increasing the size of government. At least, that's what Conservative mouthpieces like Limbaugh used to unendingly rail against Clinton about. This new Orifice of Bonehead InSecurity will be nothing but a big drain on the U.S. economy. Its budget will grow from year to year as its beaurocrats will be prone to see a terrorist act behind every "Bush Sucks" statement from here on out. And the U.S. middle-american taxpayer will be forced to shoulder the burden. And all s/he will get for their money is lots of unwarranted invasions of privacy. Hell, I feel more secure just typing about it... Makes it seem all the more credible to sidle alongside the conspiracy theorists and hypothesize that the elections were rigged just so this blunderbus could sail through Congress.

"Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything." - (attributed to) Stalin

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: DougR
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 01:02 AM

Bobert, you're breaking my heart! EVERBODY knows Byrd is the champion pork gatherer in the U. S. Senate! I don't think even the Democrats would argue that. I never lived in WV, Bobert. I've been there though. Beautiful state.

Sorcha, the sky ain't gonna fall, and we are not going to have a nuclear war. Rest easy.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: Sorcha
Date: 19 Nov 02 - 10:44 PM

I know what my Sens did, and my Rep too..........this is just getting really scary...........maybe I should change country of residence......wouldn't save the planet though.

Doug, are you really serious?? You really are looking forward to sending the entire planet into a Global Nuclear War??? That is what will happen, I think. How can you in concience, send our children to die for a lost cause? How can you want to send our children/friends/family etc to die for such an asshole reason????

Guess I better dig out my After the Nuke Mess survival books......and hope I don't survive the initial mess.............

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Nov 02 - 10:33 PM

Tell ya' what Doug. The little pork that comes into West Virginia, relative to over a century of it's people gettin' up at 4:00 in the mornin' to go down in mines sometimes no more than 36 inches tall, and dig coal fir the rest of the east coast is a drop in the bucket. And with all this pork, how come there ain't a dime to be found anywhere in the state. More typical Rebup fabrications.

I'd laugh but it ain't funny. This state is one of the poorest of the poor. Black lung still kills off a thousands and thousands of folks every year. And yes, men still wake at 4:00 in the morning to dig coal. And yes, there are still 36 inch mines wherre theymstick the miner on this thing which looks like a bob sled on tracks and send him a ile deep into the mines so that Boss Hog can turn his thermostat up that night and feel all Boss Hog comfy warm.

Robert Byrd may be a lot of things but he ain't no Oral Roberts when it comes to bringing any miracles to this state.

You lived here once, Doug, you should know. We certainly know.

Yeah, we could use just a percentage of the pork that went to the non West Virginia special interests today. Heck, I'd settle for just 1% though we are techicnally 2% of the states but we got.... the usual.... zipo!

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: GUEST,guitready
Date: 19 Nov 02 - 10:26 PM

i'll tell ya though....anybody who thinks there is a difference between republican politicians and democratic politicians needs to buy my new book "how to turn a ukelele into a trumpet". (i was going to say "is crazy")......

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: DougR
Date: 19 Nov 02 - 09:20 PM

Uh, I don't recall saying I approved of the amendments added to the bill. However, for Democrats to complain about "pork," well I find that a bit ludicrous. Who, Bobert my friend is the champion of "pork" in the U. S. Senate? Your Senator Robert Byrd of course!

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: kendall
Date: 19 Nov 02 - 09:08 PM

Naturally, both of mine, who claim to be moderates, voted with Bush. They all make me sick. Doug, how the hell can you support such blatent special interest feeding? What has a vaccine have to do with security? What does limiting awards in suits have to do with security?What does allowing big business to take its operation off shore to avoid taxes have to do with security?

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: NicoleC
Date: 19 Nov 02 - 08:51 PM

Funny, Doug. I thought you were a conservative. Oh well. I was under the impression that conservatives weren't in favor of loading up legislation with benefits for special interest groups.

So much for the Bill of Rights. Can we say "habeus corpus" boys and girls?

Pardon me, I'm gonna go check to see what my Senators did.

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Nov 02 - 07:58 PM

Well, Dougie, I heard that when it came to the loadin' of all that pork that they started at the end of the alphbet so by the time they got the the "A" states that danged plane was about to burst with all the pork they laoded and they were afaid the danged thing just wouldn't get off the ground.

Next Pork bill will start with the "A's" and your boy will vote for it with both hands.

And you can take that to the bank..... but take some plastic with ya 'cause the account has an echo in it after today...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Homeland Security Bill Passes Senate
From: DougR
Date: 19 Nov 02 - 07:49 PM

Yessiree, I knew when we won back the senate they would start getting things done up there in Washington! Way to go, U. S. Senate! I'm a bit miffed at my Senator (McCain) though. He voted with the Democrats. Since he is more Democrat than Republican anyway, it won't surprise many people out here though. Senator John Kyl voted the right way though.

DougR