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Subject: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 27 Feb 03 - 03:37 PM There was already a thread started on this subject, but because it did not pass Mr. Offer's inspection he came to the conclusion that it was "useless horsehit" (direct quote) and moved it to THIS THREAD. As we are playing in Max's park and Joe has been designated by Max to referee our little games, I'm bowing to Joe's authority and taking his suggestion to start a new thread on the same subject. If he wants to delete the first paragraph of this post, that's okay with me. Here is a link to a news story about The Justice Department arresting 55 people in a nationwide crackdown of "narcotics paraphernalia" (mostly Marijuana pipes) sales on the Internet. CLICK HERE. Here's my opinion on the subject: At least half of the people in The United States have smoked Marijuana at some time in their lives, and many do so now. Most of those people are not low-life stoner pot-heads. They are responsible members of society who like to slightly alter their state of consciousness using a substance which our government has deemed so harmful as to declare it illegal, but which is, in fact, less harmful than alcohol, a legal substance. Furthermore, our government has determined that any material or device which it feels has been produced for the purpose of ingesting Marijuana into one's system is also illegal. I find the whole idea of declaring such devices illegal absolutely absurd. As one who smoked Marijuana in his youth, I can tell you that I made pipes from toilet paper cores, Bic pen barrels, PVC pipe and assorted plumbing fittings. I also rolled joints in toilet paper, tampon wrappers, credit card receipts and onionskin typing paper. My point is that it is useless to declare a particular item illegal because of a use to which it may be put when there are an infinite number of perfectly legal items that will serve the same function. I particularly feel that the Justice Department is wasting its resources on pursuing such relatively trivial transgressions. In the current climate, their busting people for selling bongs is the equivalent of the cops stopping someone for running a stop sign while there are rival gangs having a shoot-out in the intersection. Most importantly, I am extremely concerned over the fact that the business records and computer hard-drives of the people who were arrested are now in the hands of The Justice Department. That means that for anyone who ever purchased anything from them, Mr. Ashcroft and his crew now have their credit card numbers, names, and addresses and that they have been identified as drug users and are subject to surveillance. I doubt that even someone as reactionary as Ashcroft would think that a record of someone purchasing a hash-pipe on the Net would be grounds for a search warrant, and I certainly hope that no judge would sign a warrant based on such evidence. But they can certainly monitor your comings and goings, find out who your visitors are from their license plates and generally snoop around in your life until you make a mistake that they can nail you for. And some of the folks who made such purchases may well be our own friends and family members. Bruce Makes a lot more sense, Bruce. Here's your message from the "Purple Haze" thread. -Joe Offer- Thread #56705 Message #899468 Posted By: Bee-dubya-ell 26-Feb-03 - 05:31 PM Thread Name: BS: Miscellaneous Iraq- Feb 2003 Subject: RE: BS: Terror Alert Level: Purple Haze!
Yeh, I heard about those busts on NPR. Wonder how many convenience stores are going to stop selling cigarette papers for fear of getting popped. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: GUEST, Ernest C Date: 27 Feb 03 - 03:51 PM Yes, useless horseshit. Not music, not music related, not folklore, not . . . Joe was right. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: GUEST Date: 27 Feb 03 - 03:52 PM Hey Pot head. Where does drug money go to? To buy guns and bombs for terrorists. |
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Subject: . From: Jack the Sailor Date: 27 Feb 03 - 03:59 PM Rolled a joint in a Tampon wrapper??? What were you smoking????? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Bobert Date: 27 Feb 03 - 04:07 PM Well, seriously speakin' here, the intolerance of the American people seems to be increasing. That does not bode well tor the basics: freedom and liberty and all that stuff. At some point in time the country wil implode from its own intrusions into the personal lives of ordinary, hard workin', tax paying citizens. Persecuting and prosecuting *victimless crimes* does no appreciably alter the collective behavior of society but does cost our econmoy billions and billions of dollars that could be better spent on better schools in the inner cities and a decent and *affordable* healthcare sysytem for America's working class. With the warloards taking back massive chunk's of Afgan real estate and women starting to be oppressed (al la the Taliban) by the *good guys* I would think that prioritizing pot users as terrorists or terrorist supporters is not only a stretch but purdy danged stupid. So what is Johnny Ashcroft gonna do next? Bust people for having mathes in their pockets? Give my stoned butt a break... (Well, not exactly "stoned" since I've kinda outgrew the stuff, but you know what I mean.) Beam me up... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 27 Feb 03 - 04:33 PM Yes, useless horseshit. Not music, not music related, not folklore, not... Please click on my name above and see my track record for posting on this forum. I think you will find that at least half of my posts are directly related to music. Sorry that my knowledge about folk music is not so encyclopedic as to be able to offer input to every music thread that appears here. And if pot isn't part of our contemporary folklore....(same ellipses you used) Hey Pot head. Where does drug money go to? To buy guns and bombs for terrorists. #1 - Haven't touched the stuff in at least 15 years and will gladly take a piss-test to prove it. #2 - The only reason that pot money circulates in illegal circles is that the government has forced it there. #3 - You're an unidentified GUEST so I can call you an asshole. You're an asshole. Rolled a joint in a Tampon wrapper??? What were you smoking????? JTS - Don't tell me you never noticed that the paper that Tampax brand tampons comes (or at least used to come)in is almost identical to cigarette rolling paper. Now, those newfangled tampons with plastic wrappers.... That shit's probably carcinogenic. Bruce |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Rapparee Date: 27 Feb 03 - 04:42 PM I was in a small city when this happened, actually (really, truly!) having lunch with the mayor. The Feds let the local cops know that they were gonna bust three local stores and wanted help. The mayor and the police chief discussed it and detailed one (1) local cop to the thing. Both thought it stupid, since (and his honor pointed out) you can turn both Coke cans and toilet paper cores in bongs, and Zig-Zags are sold in 'most all convenience stores. I just wondered, but didn't ask, the mayor how he knew that a Coke can could be so used..... Ashcroft and Justice is gonna get a LOT of these raids kicked out of court...and look stupid because of it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Bobert Date: 27 Feb 03 - 04:43 PM Remember making pipes from beer cans, bee-dubya-ell? Yep, puch a few holes in 'em and ya' gotta a nice little pipe. Wonder is Johnny Ashcroft is goinna be bustin' a few of them folks up there in the NASCAR stands for porssession of empty beer cans? Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Rapparee Date: 27 Feb 03 - 04:44 PM Oh,yeah -- please don't call anyone, especially a GUEST, an asshole. Remember, assholes serve a useful purpose: consider where you'd be without one. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: open mike Date: 27 Feb 03 - 04:44 PM "busting people for selling bongs is the equivalent of the cops stopping someone for running a stop sign while there are rival gangs having a shoot-out in the intersection." This is like the cops being afraid to raid meth labe for fear of the armed , "under the influence" culprits, bad dogs, etc, so pester peaceful gardeners instead because it is less dangerous, therfore safer for the cops. Sounds like what is going on on a world wide scale: Harrass the Iraqis although meanwhile North Korea is testing weapons which might have the capability of reaching our shores. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Bobert Date: 27 Feb 03 - 05:10 PM open mike: Hmmmmmm? Good points. Why is it that bullies always pick on the lesser foes? Hmmmmmm? (Well, Bobert. *That's* what makes 'em bullies!) Nevermind... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Jim Colbert Date: 27 Feb 03 - 05:13 PM Hey, that reminds me. I personally haven't impibed in anything I didn't have a prescription for since 1986, which people confuse with me being against marijuana use. I'm not; it was just no longer right for me. Respiratory problems, and I was just plain doing it too much. But figure, I'm 41 now, and I've been exposed to "don't smoke dope" messages from well-meaning souls for about 30 years now, from TV ads to policemen that came in the schools to print ads. Saw one that, for the first time ever, made me think, "whoa! Now THAT might convince me not to." It was the tv commercial stating that one joint has the amount of cancer-causing tar as 4 cigarettes. Now THAT I had never heard before, and frankly if I did still do it, that would make me seriously consider whether I wanted to or not. And how it ties in to music for me, other than spending a lot of time getting stoned and listening to music in high school, is shortly after I stopped getting high I started writing songs. Don't think the two had any correlation, but that was how it happened! jim |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: open mike Date: 27 Feb 03 - 05:21 PM funny i thiught this was a music thread - i twice read the subject as "feds bust song sellers.." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: GUEST Date: 27 Feb 03 - 05:42 PM "There was already a thread started on this subject, but because it did not pass Mr. Offer's inspection he came to the conclusion that it was "useless horsehit" (direct quote) and moved it to THIS THREAD. As we are playing in Max's park and Joe has been designated by Max to referee our little games, I'm bowing to Joe's authority and taking his suggestion to start a new thread on the same subject. If he wants to delete the first paragraph of this post, that's okay with me." Bruce, actually you aren't the first person to complain of Joe doing this to some of the political BS threads I've started. I don't have the time, inclination, or energy to play these sorts of petty games with Joe, so I do thank you for taking the time and making the effort to start a new thread. Sadly, Joe did the same thing with a thread I started providing a link to a Kurt Vonnegut interview too--that one was deemed "frivolous" as well. Just more of Joe's latest attempts at trying to get me stop posting at Mudcat. Apparently, "consolidating" threads is just another way of Joe playing net cop. It makes him feel better apparently. Apparently, you "don't have the time, inclination, or energy" to use some thought when you start a thread. Here's the message you used to start the thread I deleted. I'll let it speak for itself. Thread #56705 Message #899433 Posted By: GUEST 26-Feb-03 - 04:50 PM Thread Name: BS: Miscellaneous Iraq- Feb 2003 Subject: BS: Terror Alert Level: Purple Haze!
Yah, so have you heard about the latest efforts of our fearless Justice Department leader, AG Asscraft? This will keep us safe from terrorists, I'm sure. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Jack the Sailor Date: 27 Feb 03 - 06:10 PM Smoking Tampon wrappers is disgusting, no matter how you look at it! ;) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Bobert Date: 27 Feb 03 - 06:31 PM Do not, I repeat, *DO NOT* reply to J the S's post above, Bobert! Ahhh, no comment... Bobert |
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Subject: Making it a song thread From: katlaughing Date: 27 Feb 03 - 06:36 PM IFC is going to run Easy Riders this next weekend. Don't bogart that joint my friend...Pass it over again... I wonder if they will raid the White House and take the shrub's mirror and paper money or the tip of his pinkie nail? Aren't those the preferred paraphernalia of cocaine sniffers? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Bobert Date: 27 Feb 03 - 06:44 PM Good one, girl... Heck, Kat, while they're at it maybe they could just cart off everything connected to the pinkie nail as "Exhibit A". Danged pretzel eatin' coke head wantin' to bust a few peace lovin' pot smokers?!?!?!?!?!?.... Hummmpffff! Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: GUEST,Asshole Date: 27 Feb 03 - 08:06 PM Nobody here disagrees with the fact that drug money eventually finances terrorism. Asshole |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 27 Feb 03 - 09:18 PM On the Ning Nang Nong Where the cows go Bong! And the monkeys all say Boo! There's a Nong Nang Ning Where the trees go Ping And the tea pots Jibber Jabber Joo. On the Nong Ning Nang All the mice go Clang! And you just can't catch 'em when they do! So it's Ning Nang Nong! Cows go Bong! Nong Nang Ning! Trees go Ping! Nong Ning Nang! The mice go Clang! What a noisy place to belong, Is the Ning Nang Ning Nang Nong! Spike Milligan (Voted the UK's favourite piece of nonsense verse) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: michaelr Date: 27 Feb 03 - 09:23 PM Hey Asshole -- that's bullshit! Hell yes I disagree. Cheers, Michael |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Bobert Date: 27 Feb 03 - 10:27 PM Well, GUEST, ass****: Good one. Of course when I take my seeds up into the top of the mountain and plant 'em and come back the end of September and fill my little bag that I am indeed supporting terrorism. Hey, if that's what you think, then I obviously need to get some better seeds.... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: GUEST Date: 27 Feb 03 - 10:30 PM sorry but the majority of drugs in this country are made in the "gardens" or in a private lab.....by people who have no affiliations with terrorists.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Padre Date: 27 Feb 03 - 11:44 PM better to bust bong sellers than song sellers |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: leprechaun Date: 28 Feb 03 - 02:32 AM I wondered if anybody would post a thread about this. I happen to be one of those nasty cops who was physically present for two of those fifty-five arrests. The way I understand it, those three-hundred dollar intricate hand-blown colored glass bongs were only intended for smoking legal products. At least, that's what I was told. And that other stuff we found in the closet, well, that was just a coincidence. I don't think many of these search warrants are going to be thrown out. The innocent businessmen we arrested are probably only going to be interrupted for a little while, so they may have to either postpone their next European vacation, or leave sooner and stay longer. So are we gonna see full page advertisements in High Times for Tampax wrappers? Party on dudes! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Gervase Date: 28 Feb 03 - 03:09 AM I'm not sure I get your point, leprechaun. My son supplemented his income a few years back by making bongs and pipes (very nice ones, too) which he sold at festivals and to the sort of shops that were busted. Are you suggesting that anyone with what the UK cops tend to call 'drug-related paraphenalia' is ripe for arrest? As Bobert says, many of us grow our own, and contribute not a cent to organised crime or terrorism (Oops - unless we pay our taxes in the USA, of course - in which case some pretty spectacular bad guys have benefitted from our bank-rolling). At the risk of letting this thread creep, anyone who enjoys a smoke (at his or her own risk - for we're all aware of the health implications) has a moral and ethical duty to use home-grown. The link between crime and drugs is indisputable. Of course, the ideal solution would be to decriminalise possession - and, indeed, many more enlightened UK law enforcement officers regard the continued illegality of cannabis/marijuana as a major problem in fighting the real menace of hard drugs and organised crime. Sadly some, like Commander Brian Paddick in Brixton, have been pilloried by the right-wing media for advocating just this, but change will come. Already we have seen a positive move, with cannabis being moved this year from a Class B drug to Class C. As someone who has enoyed a mellow smoke with several coppers and one person who subsequently rose to ministerial rank, I welcome the beginning of the end of some of the hypocrisy surrounding the issue. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: leprechaun Date: 28 Feb 03 - 03:16 AM I don't know what the law is in the UK. I would agree with moving marijuana from Schedule I to Schedule II or III. And any copper who smokes pot with you should be shit-canned. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Bobert Date: 28 Feb 03 - 12:03 PM Look what happened during "Prohibition". When booze was illegal, folks who had been good law abiding citizens, became criminals overnight. Heck, the US and UK are both loosing an opportunity here. They loose revenue. They pay out billions of dollars to mess with folks who smoke pot. And just as important, they loose an opportunity to have a dialogue with the folks who use pot by making them go undergroud. Purdy shortsighted, as far as I'm concerned. Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: GUEST,Asshole Date: 28 Feb 03 - 12:13 PM Now I know why there are so many people here protesting the war. Their brain has been rotted away by smoking pot that is either home grown or originating from terrorist sources. Then the same Lala Land peacenicks insinuate that Bush is unfit because he sniffed some coke. You guys want it both ways don't ya? Asshole |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Bobert Date: 28 Feb 03 - 12:27 PM No, not really. Hey, I could care less if Bush snorted coke. I just don't like the hypocrisy. If Bush hadn't been a rich kid, he probably would have some some time in the joint (no pun inteneded) for his life style and wouldn't be where he is today. Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: leprechaun Date: 28 Feb 03 - 04:02 PM No, in that case you would have voted for him. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Kim C Date: 28 Feb 03 - 04:13 PM Well, now. I too haven't touched the stuff in 15 years. Last time I did, I got throwin-up sick. Have no idea what was in it. Anyhow, I didn't like the way it made my contacts stick to my eyeballs. Besides that, the smell is a dead giveaway for what you been doin. However, as a good Libertarian, I support the right of every adult person in the US to poison themselves in any manner they see fit, as long as they don't go driving a motor vehicle afterwards. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: DougR Date: 28 Feb 03 - 04:18 PM Uh, Lep. That's a "gotcha" isn't it? :>) Nothing is more convincing to me of the gender gap here on the Mudcat as this thread. I haven't the foggiest idea what a bong or a Zig or Zag or whatever is. I do know what a tampon is, though, and I don't think I'd ever want to smoke one. Particularly a used one. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Kim C Date: 28 Feb 03 - 04:32 PM ZigZag is a rolling paper. In Tennessee they won't sell em to you unless you also buy tobacco. And Doug, he was just talking about the paper the tampon comes wrapped in. ;-) A couple of years ago, Mister and I went to see Tom Petty in concert. Some teenage boys sat behind us on the lawn. I went to the ladies room, and when I came back, they had one of Mister's cigarillos (which he had given them), and were taking out the tobacco to use the wrapper to roll a joint. I said, Do you know what they're doing with your cigar? Oh sure, he said. I used to do that too when I didn't have any papers. And they didn't even offer me any. You would have said No, I said. Yes, he said, but it's the principle of the thing... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 28 Feb 03 - 05:07 PM Pipe is a pipe. If it works for the illegal stuff it'll work for the legal stuff. Scales are scales - they can weigh anything. King-sized cigarette papers can be used for rolling king sized tobacco ciggies. I used to think the USA constitution was quite impressive. Now I think we are probably better off with the the European Convention on Human Rights - (http://www.hri.org/docs/ECHR50.html) Maybe what you need is an "American Convention on Human Rights" running throughout the nations of America, to supplement your Constitution, the same way ours supplements our Constitutions, where we have them - and, in the case of the UK goes some way to make up for the fact we haven't got one. (For example the British Home Secretary the other week went ape when a courageous judge ruled that some very repressive legislation hitting at refugees was illegal.)
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: GUEST, herc Date: 28 Feb 03 - 10:44 PM When the guys bust in, tell them it IS filled with tobacco, make'm try it to prove it, then show the the following website and everything will be fine: http://knightsgate.com/melanie/ In fact, McGraw, if you're still as high as you were during that last post, you might get a kick out of it right now. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Bobert Date: 28 Feb 03 - 10:55 PM Hahahaha, Dougie! You stoner! Yeah, tryin' to pretent you don't know nuthin'? Hahahaha! Have you read some of your posts? "Well, I don't know a Zig for a Zag." Yeah right! Takes a stoner to know one! So come on Doug! Spill it! Don't worry. I won't tell John Ashcroft! I promise. The truth will set you free! Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: GUEST,Asshole Date: 28 Feb 03 - 11:01 PM Bobert: Your statement are pretty hard for someone that is not stoned to figure out. Does this mean you snorted coke and / or had his lifestyle and did some time in the slammer cause you were not a rich kid or what? "I just don't like the hypocrisy. If Bush hadn't been a rich kid, he probably would have some some time in the joint (no pun inteneded) for his life style and wouldn't be where he is today." It looks like your are the one guilty of hypocisy. Asshole |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: GUEST, herc Date: 28 Feb 03 - 11:05 PM Watch out Bobert. Jenna Bush used to post here a lot, but I haven't noticed her posting under her own name lately. Mr. A. could just be a nom de plume. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Bobert Date: 28 Feb 03 - 11:22 PM No, A-hole, doesn't mean that at all... Whereas I might play a little hear at the Catbox, the reality is that in my past life I worked as both a jailhouse teacher and a counselor and teacher in a drug rehab facility (Rubicon, Inc, Richmond, Va.). So, no, I don't like drugies actin' as if they are the most righteous folks in the world. Seen lots of that. More than you could imagine. It was the first thing we tried to *break down* in our "clients". If you are familiar with the "Daytop" model, that's what I know. Drug addicts need to have the "pridefull* layers stripped off before any progress is made. I'd suggest that Bush could use a little a little Rubicon/Daytop. He still is pridefull. And don't fool yourself into thinking the "pretzel incident" had any thing to do with pretzels! Bush has a serious alcohol problem... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Rick Fielding Date: 01 Mar 03 - 01:16 AM Doug, Doug, Doug! I don't think it's an age thing. We have a LOT of old (sixties and seventies) dopers in Ontario! Now some of the stories floating up from Texas, back thirty five years ago were TRULY scary. That was NOT the place for bongs, zig-zags, and if I'm not mistaken you could get ten years just for having a "Black Light" in your apartment! Did you ever smoke any bananas tho' dude? I used to get headaches with ANY kind of dope or booze. Jeez, I was SOOOO straight, despite myself! Cheers Rick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 01 Mar 03 - 03:20 AM It appears that Chong (the other half of Cheech) was busted for selling his bongs in this sting.
Sincerely, |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: leprechaun Date: 01 Mar 03 - 03:26 AM This was an interesting posit from Open Mike: This is like the cops being afraid to raid meth labe for fear of the armed , "under the influence" culprits, bad dogs, etc, so pester peaceful gardeners instead because it is less dangerous, therfore safer for the cops. The bong thing was a rarity, the only one I can remember. I'd rather bust a heroin dealer, but we can't always specialize. The fact is, we raided a meth lab the next day, as we do about once or twice a week. However, the most dangerous thing we do is raid marijuana dealers. All told, the marijuana dealers are significantly more vicious than heroin, meth or cocaine dealers. We seize more guns from marijuana dealers than from all the other types of dealers combined. Around here, when a cop is shot dring a drug raid, it's usually a marijuana dealer. I think there are several reasons for this. I have observed that people who regularly smoke marijuana tend to have the emotional maturity of a spoiled twelve year old. Combine that with the "hemp culture" mentality and a lot of High Times indoctrination and the result is one dangerous individual who thinks he's defending his gods-given right to do anything he wants to. I think the clearest illustration of this type of mentality is somebody we all know and love, by golly, it's Conspiracy GUEST! Imagine having Conspiracy GUEST sitting in his living room under several thousand watt grow lamps, surrounded by ten thousand dollars worth of thickly budded sinsemilla, with a huge chunk of currency in the false floor of the closet. It might be enough to make him paranoid or something. Peaceful gardeners my ass. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Rapparee Date: 01 Mar 03 - 07:03 AM Lep, my brother works for the IL state police (sort of an administrative intelligence person, he's not sworn but damned close to it). He says that when they raid meth labs they're careful not to blow themselves up because of the chemical fumes or inhale the anhydrous ammonia, but raiding a pot patch...yech! They first send in a team who trained on Vietnam boobytraps, since they have found: punji sticks, claymore mines (both the real thing and improvised ones), trip-wired shotguns, homemade land mines, guards with automatic weapons, dogs which have been trained to crotch-bite and whose bark appartatus has been surgically removed, and other such fun things. The first team usually goes in at night and moves about a hundred yards in 4 hours, clearing as they go. Down in KY's Daniel Boone National Forest I understand it's a lot worse. Grow it at home, in your greenhouse -- fine. Those who grow it for a living are just plain dangerous -- for one thing, they don't always clean up the nasty stuff when they move. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Bobert Date: 01 Mar 03 - 08:26 AM Yeah, like I said. Keep it criminalized and expensive and you're gonna find, ahhh, criminals involved in its growing and distribution. This is a no brainer. Decriminalize it and guess what? The criminal element is going to have to find work 'cause then everyone who uses it will have their own little pot patch. Like big woop! 'Cept it now saves the taxpayers a lot of dough in lawyers, cops that could be going after bad, bad people and the prison/industrial complex. But in today's political climate, decriminalization ain't about to happen. No, we're in for a long stretch of intrusive government with this batch of nosey hypoctrites. Bush being the head nosey hypocrite. Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: GUEST,Asshole Date: 01 Mar 03 - 08:50 AM Bobert: "He still is pridefull." Judging from your posts are both pridefull and righteous. "And don't fool yourself into thinking the "pretzel incident" had any thing to do with pretzels!" What conspiracy says otherwise? "Bush has a serious alcohol problem..." How serious? When? Where? How? Why? Do you have or have you had any alcohol problems? I hope I am not getting too personal but there is nothing more vengeful than a reformed alcoholic or someone that quit smoking when they are denigrating someone that drinks or smokes. I myself have quit smoking. Now when I look at someone that smokes I can't under stand why they keep it up. I don't attack them. I might mention that I quit and they could too. I have never had a problem with drinking and the older I get the less I drink but I do not attack everyone that drinks or smokes. But what do I know, I am just an asshole. leprechaun: It sounds to me like those growers could be called terrorists except they are in America. I would say anybody that does dope is supporting mean people that will do harm to America. The Canadian chapter of the Hell's Angels grow most of the BC Bud. They are nice peaceful people aren't they? Are they among the "Millions Marching for peace"? Asshole |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Peg Date: 01 Mar 03 - 09:56 AM It's one thing to arrest growers who booby-trap their crop with dangerous weaponry, or who mutilate dogs for protection. It's quite another to arrest otherwise law-abiding members of society who procure, or cultivate, small amounts of marijuana for their own personal recreational or medicinal use. To lump all "pot-smokers" into the same category is very wrong indeed, and leads to the sort of mentality that thinks the guy who is found with fifty kilos, a full drying shed and rifles in his cabin is no different from the guy found with an ounce and a bong. Yet both, in some areas, might end up doing jail time. This is very wrong. Marijuana is the number one cash crop in the United States and has been for years now. While the anecdotes our law enforcement friends have provided may be true, I am thinking they represent a VERY small percentage of the growing and distribution activities in this country. And we still have a much bigger problem with heroin, amphetamine and crack cocaine use in this country than with marijuana, in terms of the cost to health and the amount of violent crime connected to their abuse. Also, marijuana is not addictive: cocaine, heroin, oxycontin, etc. are extremely addictive. They are also widely available in prison, which is why addicts sent to prison (for possession or larceny, not for violent crime) are virtually impossible to rehabilitate and often end up back on the streets, still addicted, and often led into crime to support their habits. The vast majority of pot smokers are productive members of society and include doctors, lawyers, cops, teachers, artists, politicians, and virtually every line of work one could imagine. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 01 Mar 03 - 05:00 PM Dunno what went wrong with my link up there to the European Convention on Human Rights - (http://www.hri.org/docs/ECHR50.html) Basic rule is, always check your link before posting, and I normally do. But if it's illegal to sell something that might be used to do something illegal, as well as something legal, how come all those cars are on sale all over the place? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: GUEST,Asshole Date: 01 Mar 03 - 05:16 PM OK. Let's lump everybody that is in support their government's policy on Iraq as "warmongers" regardless of what they do, what their position is, what they believe in or their IQ. They are all to be criticized, detested, discredited and told they don't know what they are talking about even if they are in the majority. From the posts I see here it would seem that the majority of anti-war protestors are enlightened drug abusers with a greater knowledge of what is good for the opposing majority. I would believe the views of the law abiders over the views of the law breakers. There are countries where drugs are legal. How are they doing? Is anybody leaving the US avoid the unfair drug laws here? If they do it is good riddance. Asshole |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 01 Mar 03 - 05:21 PM They were all illegal under the Taliban, or in Saudi Arabia right now, especially including booze. About the only people who are consistant on this kind of thing are the Mormons, who won't even allow Coca Cola. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: *daylia* Date: 01 Mar 03 - 05:43 PM A-hole, are you out of Preparation H? If so, I believe marijuana is effective for relieving pain and irritation from those pesky 'roids. Might want to check it out. At the least, you might find it satisfying to stuff some where the sun don't shine! Anything to improve your mood a little ... music's good too ... ;-) daylia |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: DougR Date: 01 Mar 03 - 05:56 PM Sorry Bobert, but no sell. I've never touched the stuff. I have become a slave to Charles Shaw Merlot, though, that you can only buy at Trader Joe's though. Kim: I was just jabbing about the tampon. I knew what the poster meant, but thanks for setting me straight anyway. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Bobert Date: 01 Mar 03 - 05:59 PM It all comes down to "tolerance", A**hole. You are so rigid in your thinking that all you can truely see is "black or white". You tru to project that rigidity onto others here but it ain't gonna wash. You think that anitwar folks think that anyone who supports Bush's policy toward Iraq is a "warmonger". That's projecting as well as wrong. If we felt that way, then why would we spend so much time trying to argue our case? Well, I'll tell ya why. Because we feel that some folks need *information*. Keep in mind that Thomas Jefferson warned us that the only way this little experiement would work is if we were "informed". Like, I say, "information". Heck, if I didn't hink I had a chance to change one person's thinking around toward peaceful solutions top complex problems then I would be a total idiot to make the effort to "inform". Now, you accused me of being "righteous". I am, thank you, in the in my walk thru life I practice love and respect for my fellowmen, even when I find myself on the other side of an issue. If that is righteous, then so be it. But I think you would be surprised that I am a member of gopod standing of a couple of my local town's committees that are comprised of conservative Republicans. Now as for "alcoholism". Yeah, I know a lot about it. In my prior life I worked as a jailhouse teacher (GED stuff), in a drug rehab facility and as the Director of Outreach of Rubicon's Alcoholism program in Richmond, Va. Yeah, I know about addicts and addictions and have no addictions of my own, though I'd hate to loose my wife or my old Martin guitar. Lastly, Mr. Bush: I don't think it is any secret that in his past he has had problems with both alcohol and drugs. I have never driven drunk. Might of fact, other thean getting drunk when I was about 17 years old, I don't get drunk. Bush, on the other hand was convicted of DUI. Do you really think that was the first time he had driven drunk? Highly (no pun intened) unlikely! When Bush says he doesn't drink that sends out a message to me. Hmmmmm? First thing I think of when someone says that, when I know they used to drink, is that they are a "recovering alcoholic". Now, lastly, the pretzel incident. I don't have any evidence but you are the cop so you put it together. How many lies have you heard? Thousands? I'm sure. Now, here's a guy who has to show up for work with the bruise from "hitting his head on the table" abd says he choked on a pretzel, passed out and fell into the table. There, play cop with that one. Well, sorry if I missed any of your points but I'm going to take me a ligttle break from the pudder now. Righteous Bobert (Pompous, according to ttr..) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: GUEST,Asshole Date: 01 Mar 03 - 06:08 PM McGrath: What do comments like "illegal under the Taliban" prove? Are drugs illegal in Harlow? If so is the Taliban in charge there? If someone can compare living conditions in the US to a country where drugs are legal and conditions are better they might be able to prove a point such as it is desirable to legalize drugs. I thing conditions would be worse so therefore I think it would be undesirable to legalize drugs. A great number of us have done drugs and decided it was bad, illegal and not worth the risk involved so didn't do it any more. Others did it and felt they were better off because they did not have to face things in the same way any more, hence the saying "reality is for people that can't handle drugs" I would rather face reality myself and I don't need a bunch of drug advocates dragging the quality of life in the US down. If you don't like my opinions just go light up and soon you won't give a damn. I came by this name honestly in a post above Asshole |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: leprechaun Date: 01 Mar 03 - 08:22 PM Peg, I agree that heroin, crack cocaine and methamphetamine are bigger problems than marijuana. However, they are also treated diffently under the law. I keep hearing about people who are serving long prison sentences for getting caught with a joint. I've never met one, though. From my perspective, marijuana is almost legal now. The feds won't even look at a marijuana case unless it involves a hundred pounds or more. These bong sellers pissed somebody off, but they are banking some major ducats. I think the paraphernalia merchants were thumbing their noses a little too much. And medicinal use is a scam. Boberto - I don't remember saying anything about pretzels. Is there another cop around here? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Bobert Date: 01 Mar 03 - 08:57 PM Sorry, Lepper, must have gotten you corn-fused with Kojack. My apologies... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 01 Mar 03 - 10:11 PM Lots of drugs are legal in Harlow, true enough, as they are in most places. All kinds of drinks containing alcohol(which of course were banned by the Taliban, and in Saudi Arabia), various ways of taking nicotine - cigarettes, rolling tobacco, cigars, nicotine oatches...And of course there is tea and coffee and cocoa, and coca-cola. And there are lots and lots you can get in chemists, some over the counter, like aspirins and paracetamol, and some that need prescriptions Oh yes, and the government in Westminster has decided that it's no longer going to be an arrestable offence to have small quantities of cannabis for your personal use in this country. I think there most of the people living in various countries where a more relaxed attitude toward cannabis is prevalent - such as the Netherlands - would probably say that they'd rather live there than in the United States, thank you. Not especially because of the drug laws, but because they are good places to live generally, and who'd want to leave their native country if they really had the choice?. (My point in mentioning the Taliban was to remind people that places where they come down heavy on drug use aren't necessarily great places to live.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Bobert Date: 01 Mar 03 - 11:02 PM McGrath: Hmmmmm? If things in the US continue on the downward slide, I amy be lookin' for a place to relocate. Hey, I don't really care about smokin' pot but I certainly would welcome a more tolerant atmosphere where a bunch of "rule people" wouldn't be peekin' in my windows. John Ashcroft is a closet homosexual so I gotta put up with his "holier than thou" intolerance. Getting to look a lot less and less like America every day. Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Sam L Date: 01 Mar 03 - 11:23 PM I've smoked enough pot to know it's a very mild drug, nothing compared to alcohol, and less addictive than video games, or internet forums. I balked at the price and the whole hassle of it a long time ago, 5 bucks a full unweighed bag, about five fingers, seemed about right. That was a while ago. Now it's an overpriced commercial culture much like any other, the illegality is a great marketing tool, especially to the young. Much the way rich idiots buy persian rugs they don't even like in a fantasy of themselves as cultured aristocrats, young people buy pot in a fantasy of themselves as outlaws. Both things are about as silly. Old persian rugs are things people made themsemselves for their own houses, and if you don't understand that, nothing you ever learn or know about them will ever make you understand them, really. And pot should be dirt cheap, a poor business prospect, just the little buzz it is, not an overwrought marketing culture. But what gets me rattled about it is how people defend the way things are, just because they are that way. It's so unprincipled, unthinking, careless, depressing, dumb. If peanut butter were illegal some certain mentality of person would "feel" certain that it should be, and be glad to feel superior to all those low-life nut-heads. I wish I got some satisfaction, got some sense of superiority from people who can't think of the difference between "reality", and what's reified, but it just depresses the living crap out of me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: GUEST,Asshole Date: 01 Mar 03 - 11:52 PM McGrath: You have got some good points there. I was going to mention the Netherlands where you can buy iced tea with LSD in Amsterdam. I know a student who traveled around Europe and he said Amsterdam was filthy. This leads me to believe that conditions there are not as good as they are in the US. It would not bother me if all the dope smokers emmigrated there or some where besides here. I get sick of hearing people complaining about how bad it is here. Who is forcing them to stay here? Fred Miller: Just fire up some herbs. It is the ultimate cure for depression. What ever your problem is, don't bother to solve the problem. Just cover it up with drugs. The same goes for alky but that is legal after a certain age. Asshole |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Rustic Rebel Date: 02 Mar 03 - 01:05 AM I would like to get back to the article a minute. It said it was a nationwide crackdown with 10 national distributors and 7 buisnesses in W. Pennsylvania, so I don't understand this to be a nationwide thing when they seemed to have focused on one state. I do however remember quite a few years back they had a crackdown on paraphernalia and shops in my home town were closed down. My only reaction to this was, it gave way to more artists to make and/or create their own pipes to use. My point, like Bee-duby-ell's, it's not going to stop people from smoking, by taking away their bongs. But one thing in the article I thought was really bogus was this statement, made by chief John Brown of the DEA; He said sellers of drug paraphernalia were just as responsible as others for the illegal drug trade. "They are as much a part of drug trafficking as silencers are a part of criminal homicide," Brown said. Then you might as well say, the guns and ammo distributors are responsible for criminal homicide and we better have another Ashcroft nationwide crackdown! Where does this guy come from? Peace. Rustic ps. Bobert, I don't know about smoking from alum. cans. Seems like you would be doing some aluminum oxides along with that bud! Now being reefer does a number on memory to begin with, then add AL2O3, we're talking a sure case of Alzheimer's! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: winterchild Date: 02 Mar 03 - 01:17 AM Interesting thread, folks. Some points of discussion on the topic; - I believe that paranoia is supposed to be one of the possible side-effects of long-term heavy use of Cannabis; does anyone know if this is true? - I know that there is mental deterioration - but that is only significant _IF_ one uses it heavily, for several years - and there is the problem with the tar, but there again, mj is not usually smoked the way cigarettes are (if nothing else, the user is bound to pass out...). Alchohol causes mental deterioration at a greater rate, and cigarettes cause cancer more easily and are ten times as addictive. So, other than it being illegal (which is why I stopped), why is pot so bad? - I've heard that cannabis is used as a "Thresh-hold" drug, a way of easing users into harder drugs. If it were legal, would it stop being used that way? (or, will it always be a risk that way, since folks high on mj are more suggestible?) - I think this was addressed already, but if drug money finances terrorism (hey, I thought that was _Cigarettes_ those dudes smuggled interstate to raise money for the Taliban?), would making marijuana legal deny those terrorists income from marijuana? Jim - yes, there actually _is_ probably a correlation between your quitting pot and starting to write music. From my own past experience, creativity is not as easy while under _any_ influence that dulls the mind. There's a reason they call it "dope". On the other hand, some folks need that dulling to bear unusual pain or harsh conditions. The trick is not to let it become a habit, or a means of avoiding facing something difficult, surmountable, or strengthening. McGrath; I like what you say. "I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"! Bobert - great posts! Interesting input... Guest whom some call Asshole - Life is not black-and-white, but a creation extremely difficult to decipher. While keeping one's conclusions simple may be very satisfying, it is unfortunately true that this complicated world seldom matches those conclusions very widely, or for very long. Making wide-ranging and absolute statements does not usually fit in with reality. Name-calling does not solve problems. Those who yell because they don't like what others say are not listening, and might miss information that would be useful and enlightening (or is that the idea?). Life is change, like a good piece of music that you play a little differently depending on when and where you are, and how good you are (which itself changes). I hope you will keep this in mind next time you come across an amiable discussion in a controversal subject like this, and flame a little less, o dragon! WinterChild who does not smoke, or partake of drugs, and seldom drinks, but who understands that the needs and situations of others may be drastically different. Winterchild |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: GUEST,Asshole Date: 02 Mar 03 - 01:36 AM Well put Winterchild. Indeed everything is not black and white. However if I had my choice I would rather live in a society of law abiders. I would rather have the dissenters go elsewhere an quit telling me I am wrong and that the law is not the law. What would Mr. Rogers have smoked? Nothing? Man, what a square. Asshole |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Peg Date: 02 Mar 03 - 01:46 AM medicinal use of marijuana is not a "scam" whatever that means... If you mean it has no legitimate medicinal use you are very wrong indeed. Two good and very legitimate examples of the types of people who could benefit from smoking pot medicinally that I can think of immediately are 1) a good friend who smoked it to get rid of nausea from anti-AIDS medication that destroyed his appetite, and 2) my mother, who has glaucoma. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: GUEST,Asshole Date: 02 Mar 03 - 02:09 AM I would like to know where MJ use originated. Usually the medicinal medicinal benifits of plants were discovered by Indians somewhere. Who discovered cannabis? Asshole |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: winterchild Date: 02 Mar 03 - 02:22 AM Peg is right, although I believe they've come up with something for glaucoma derived from cannabis 'though without the THC, but which still treats the disease. Another very valid use for Cannabis is for those who have fatal conditions of several sorts. Most of those conditions are very painful, and the medications for many of them have side-effects. Guest whom some call Asshole, while it is true that many people in America break the law, that is true in most countries. Yes, it does seem worse in America, but there are crimes and there are crimes; a jaywalker does not compare to a murderer. What most of us were saying is that what we call "victimless" crimes should, perhaps, not be pursued with the same vigor as crimes that harm others. We were also trying to determine whether or in what situations pot does harm others. This is not arguing over whether something is the law, but whether the law should be changed. This is why our wonderful country is a democracy. Laws can be changed, and can be discussed freely. Fred Rogers was a wonderful man, trained in compassion and wise enough not to push his religion on trusting children (some of whom would have been excluded in the process, as he once explained). Can we do less? Winterchild |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: DougR Date: 02 Mar 03 - 02:43 AM Hey Bobert, maybe you should try Iraq! Saddam is pretty busy with other concerns and "grass" is probably not one of them. Beside that, you could have a front row seat! :>) DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: winterchild Date: 02 Mar 03 - 03:25 AM our Guest sometimes called Asshole has a good question; where did the use of Cannabis originate? WC |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: GUEST Date: 02 Mar 03 - 03:58 AM uh asshole....name one american city that is not filthy? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: *daylia* Date: 02 Mar 03 - 10:40 AM GUEST A-hole, marijuana has been used for millenium for medicinal, religious and 'industrial' (ie. making clothes and rope etc.) purposes. Use of the plant in Africa, Euro-Asia, the Middle East and the Far East is quite well documents by archeologists, according to the National Commission on Marijuana and Drug Abuse. There's information about the sacred use of the plant by worshippers of the 'Great Goddess' (the Hindu Kali-Ma, the Sumerian/Assyrian/Semitic Asherah or Astarte etc.)at this site. For a description of it's ritual use in the Ceremony of the Dead by the nomadic Scythians of Eastern Europe and Russia, as well as for clothing etc. click here. Although you may find the last two links suspect because they are obviously from the pro-legalization camp rather than 'Big Brother', I have encountered this information before at a few other sources, including the Encyclopedia Brittanica (which is quoted in the articles). Enjoy! daylia |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Sam L Date: 02 Mar 03 - 10:46 AM I believe the oldest known use of cannabis is India, I seem to remember from a book. It was chewed, possibly and it seems somehow likely by the stoner who invented zero as a math concept. Asshole, thanks for letting me know that alcohol is legal at a certain age, as opposed to cannabis. You are one insightful and observant dude. I think you've brought the discussion to a new level of understanding. I've seen more thoughtful cases made against pot, back in high school, but those guys were seniors. If Paul McCartney had quit smoking pot and worked on his problems, maybe he'd get over his crippling depression and write a few memorable tunes. Far from wishing everyone who complained about laws in the U.S. would leave, I think it's part of the whole free speech and process of law. Maybe people who think everyone should shut up and do what they're told should go somewhere else, where that is the deal. It isn't the idea here, and never was. I just wish people who don't use turn-signals would all drive into each other's vehicles and get off the road. The effects of drugs are partly cultured, sometimes what one expects them to be. Other drugs are much more troubling to me as a matter of policy and law than pot. The idea that it's a threshold--people make all sorts of arguments when they don't know what they are talking about, and I kind of collect them. Like the woman who told me, aqbout conservation "My husband says there are more trees now on earth than when God created it"! Three years later I met him, and was fascinated, kept looking at his head. Pfffft. 'ere. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: *daylia* Date: 02 Mar 03 - 11:33 AM And for a glimpse into the problems that the love of cannabis caused for our ancient ancestors, click here. He he he - daylia |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: GUEST,Asshole Date: 02 Mar 03 - 12:42 PM Fred Miller: The reason I was asking about who "discovered" pot was to try to figure out what the overall effect was on them, good or bad. Does that ethnic group or country still exist? I have not seen anything good come from use of drugs outside of medical uses. I will now be told about the medical uses for pot. Correct me if I am wrong but if a doctor prescribes it you can get it. The reason I reiterated the obvious legal age for smoking and drinking is to illustrate that laws to regulate certain substances can be beneficial and acceptable. The reason I am mentioning Alcohol and Nicotine is because they are not beneficial as drug use including THC is not beneficial. It just happens that even though smoking and drinking are legal, smoking and excessive drinking are not good for you. If you want to eliminate the laws against drugs or pot in particular you also have to change the laws about under age drinking and smoking. As far as drug culture goes should we recognize NAMBLA as well as NORMAL? Should we do away all of the taboos like incest and rape? Should we have total anarchy with everybody smoking enough grass that we can't or won't hurt each other? Somebody previously mentioned that American cigarette companies are involved in laundering drug money by trading cigarettes to South American smugglers and getting paid in drug money. This is true and it should be stopped by the US government. That would be a good purpose for a demonstration that might do some good. Asshole |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: leprechaun Date: 02 Mar 03 - 12:46 PM Daylia - That dinosaur was just mad because the caveman was charging three-hundred dollars for the bong. Fred - I'll have to agree with you on the addictive nature of Internet Forums. But the pot you and I were getting in antiquity for ten bucks a "lid" ain't the pot they have now, and it ain't mild by any means. These days, marijuana is significantly more powerful than it was back then. No self-respecting stoner will waste money or kilowatts on bud that doesn't get them ripped in one bong hit. Three nights ago I had a straight shot of delicious tequila and it had no visible effect on me. If I had downed two more within an hour, I might have felt some slight effect. I could have had four or eight more, and actually abused myself. I could have twelve a day for the next year or ten years and then, yeah, in that case, I might be better off with pot. But at a sensible rate, alcohol is not "worse than marijuana." Peg - maybe you know two out the dozen or so people in the United States who believe, in good faith, that marijuana is the only thing for an actual debilitating condition or disease. But I've met hundreds of perfectly healthy folks who are skillfully scamming the recently enacted medical marijuana laws to get marijuana for nothing more than recreational or commercial use. And you and I both know the laws were designed for just that purpose, to make marijuana laws virtually unenforceable. But they were not presented to the voters that way. Guest Asshole - Can't we find a gentler, more whimsical nickname for you? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: *daylia* Date: 02 Mar 03 - 01:15 PM How about 'GUEST Orifice', or 'GUEST sphincter'? Maybe 'GUEST rectum-darn-near-killed-'em'? ;-) daylia |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: leprechaun Date: 02 Mar 03 - 01:32 PM That's not actually getting much closer to what I had in mind. If we must do body parts, how about "pinkie" or "lips" or "earlobe?" And if we can't avoid the area, how about "cheeks?" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: GUEST,Asshole Date: 02 Mar 03 - 01:35 PM After my first post here where I stated drug money eventually ends up in the hands of terrorists, Mr. Bobert proclaimed "You're an unidentified GUEST so I can call you an asshole. You're an asshole." Bobert will have to give me a new name. I still say that using drugs supports terrorism. It may not be true 100% of the time but it is true that terrorists raise money by producing or trafficking in drugs. They do the same with charities and they even rake in millions with shopping coupon fraud. If we are to defeat terrorism we need to address every possible angle that they use against us. Asshole |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: leprechaun Date: 02 Mar 03 - 01:40 PM OK, so come on Bobert, let's get this GUEST a nicer nickname. I mean it! A nice one. Come on, show 'em what you're made of. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Peg Date: 02 Mar 03 - 04:34 PM leprechaun wrote: Peg - maybe you know two out the dozen or so people in the United States who believe, in good faith, that marijuana is the only thing for an actual debilitating condition or disease. But I've met hundreds of perfectly healthy folks who are skillfully scamming the recently enacted medical marijuana laws to get marijuana for nothing more than recreational or commercial use. And you and I both know the laws were designed for just that purpose, to make marijuana laws virtually unenforceable. But they were not presented to the voters that way. --I think there are way more than a dozen; that's just insulting for you to trivialize this matter and if my friend with AIDS I referred to earlier weren't dead, I'd send your comments to him and see what he had to say. Most unsympathetic of you. Fortunately AIDS sufferers these days have a better chance of longer survival, into the decades, but there are still problems with nausea from medication, and marijuana is still helpful. I have another friend in this situation now. Would you deny him the option of feeling better because the system makes it hard for medical marijuana laws to be implemented? Perhaps there are people scamming medicinal marijuana laws to obtain pot for purposes unrelated to medical problems. That's unfortunate, and dishonest, but then again, I believe pot should be legal for recreational use as well. The point is, marijuana is one of the best treatments known for the nausea incurred during chemotherapy and the drug cocktails taken by AIDS sufferers. And I do NOT "know" that these laws were designed to make marijuana easier for people to exacpe prosecution. As far as I am concerned, medical marijuana laws are just what they soud like: laws designed to allow easier and legal access to this substance because it will relieve their symptoms. I agree that the hydroponically-grown pot available now is much stronger than it used to be; but I disagree that people would not waste their money on it unless it provided an instant and very potent high; in my experience, people are often looking for something milder and are nostalgic for the days when the available types of pot varied greatly in strength, quality, freshness etc. depending on their region of origin. This is why I rarely smoke it anymore. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Sam L Date: 02 Mar 03 - 05:23 PM Guest, whatever Bobert will call you. Hunh? Why would we have to change laws about underage drinking if we changed laws about pot? Why not just model the laws about pot on the ones we have for drinking, and leave them as they are? What does it have to do with taboos about incest and rape? And anarchy? I don't follow any of that at all. Leprechaun, I don't quite believe that weed is so new and improved. Although I never buy it, I've still joined in once or twice over the years, and I think it's got more expensive, and no better. Drugs affect people differently, but I think alcohol is much meaner. I know people who can't have one drink without fear of wrecking their lives. You can compare sensible use of alcohol to insensible use of pot, but what's the point of that? All these questions get harder for me with toxic, addictive drugs. Pot is pretty darn safe and mild, makes you self-amused, then sleepy, like a turkey dinner. What's that drug in turkey called--trypton-something? I think the benefits of clearing courts and jails and a thriving illegal industry outweigh the dangers of a relatively tame drug, with a bad rap. Cultural biases and fears are attached to pot that really have nothing intrinsically to do with it. I'm getting tired of advocating pot now, since I don't really care. I just don't like the judgemental terrorists link nonsense, it doesn't add up. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: leprechaun Date: 02 Mar 03 - 06:10 PM Peg - we're closer to agreeing than you might think. I didn't say your terminally ill friend shouldn't have pot. But the law that made it avalailable, at least in my state, was designed to make it available for recreational and commercial purposes, speciously using "compassion" as a selling point. I think it was done in bad faith by the people who promoted that law, and I need look no further than clever language of the law itself, which allowed the hordes of healthy people to scam, yes scam themselves a medical marijuana card. Are there any other medicines you smoke in a bong? And if it's such a powerful medicine, why should it be available for recreational purposes? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: *daylia* Date: 02 Mar 03 - 06:51 PM Leprechaun, alcohol is powerful medicine too - most 'experts' agree that in small amounts it aids relaxation and relieves stress. My grandmother used to swear by her evening oz. of brandy! And alcohol is (obviously) available for recreational purposes! From the religious point of view, it's interesting to note that wine is found on ALL European altars, Christian and pre-Christian. And it's there for it's 'psychoactive' effects - the slight change of mood and perception that small amounts of alcohol produces, which are seen as conducive to experiencing things of a 'spiritual' nature. This is the same purpose that cannabis served on the altars of the Goddess in ancient times - to open one to visions etc. The difference is that cannabis is a plant - and an extremely hardy, adaptive useful one that's easy for any average human being to access and cultivate. Unless of course, it's criminalized. Booze producers have enjoyed HUGE profits through the centuries in the production of the traditional European 'drug of choice', regardless of it's often disastrous effects on people's health and lives. Cannabis, being so easily grown anywhere by just about anyone, did not lend itself so well to commercial profiteering by a wealthy 'elite' - until the advent of criminalization. And cannabis, being the traditional 'drug of choice' of the Arab, East Indian and African peoples (the very populations and continents that Europeans sought to dominate and exercise total control over for centuries) - became just another means of criminalizing and controlling the poorer, often non-white 'problem populations' who used it. That's the real reasoning behind the marijuana laws, imo. Opium as well. daylia |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Bobert Date: 02 Mar 03 - 09:17 PM Okay, okay! Yeah, I think GUEST, A**hole coule use a new handle, though the one that he has is pretty danged fittin'... Awww, jus' funnin'. Well, I had me a few tokes before thinkin' of this *new and imporoved* handle. Hey, I thought that A**hole would appreciate that! Ahhhh, what's the question? Oh yeah, I rememeber. .. Well,in light of the fact that A**hole likes laws more than his guitar, wife of SUV I think I've come up with just the handle for A**hole. Drum roll, please... !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GUEST, rule boy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whaddayathink? Heck, that's GUEST, A**hole to the tee. Never met a rule he didn't like.... Bobert p.s. Hey, I lied about takin' a couple of tokes GUEST, rule boy, so please don't conspire with Dougie to send me to Iraq. Heck, it's too hot and word on the street is that they're gonna have a war there. Or is it a guest lecturer on the latin names of every azalea? Hmmmmm? Either one, please, depot agent, don't sent me to Iraq... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: GUEST,Asshole Date: 02 Mar 03 - 09:44 PM |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Bobert Date: 02 Mar 03 - 09:48 PM So what are you trying to say, GUEST, rule boy? Come on, spit it out> Cat got yer tounge? What, ol' hillbilly got you speechless? Nah... Must be a pudder problem... 'er you're stoned... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: GUEST,Asshole ruleboy Date: 02 Mar 03 - 10:07 PM So Bobert you worked in drug rehab and don't believe in the rule of law and the democratic process of self rule as it exists now? Why not get into politics and help change things the way you think they should be. You can call me anything you want except anarchist. Self governance by law abiding people that treat each other with respect is my bag. I don't really have a beef with the way things are now except that some people that are not satisfied try to call the satisfied people square or not as intelligent as they are. Then they use that to justify breaking the law, the same reasoning that gets so many underage drinkers killed or arrested. Ask Bush's daughters. First pot is legalized then in a few years it is not taboo enough so coke is recreationally correct. Why not legalize that too. Where do you stop? It is decadence. If it is not decadent someone please explain what decadence is. A little wine is beneficial as per my doctor's recommendation but excessive drinking is not beneficial. Nor has my doctor advocated the use of pot. Rule Boy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Peg Date: 02 Mar 03 - 11:30 PM leprechaun wrote: Peg - we're closer to agreeing than you might think. I didn't say your terminally ill friend shouldn't have pot. But the law that made it avalailable, at least in my state, was designed to make it available for recreational and commercial purposes, speciously using "compassion" as a selling point. --on what do you base this? Do you KNOW that the legislators who drafted the bill had this purpose in mind? That this is the result of its being passed may be true but how can you be sure this was its only intention? I think it was done in bad faith by the people who promoted that law, and I need look no further than clever language of the law itself, which allowed the hordes of healthy people to scam, yes scam themselves a medical marijuana card. --again, just because the language provides for easy abuse, doesn't mean that was the law's intention. Are there any other medicines you smoke in a bong? --one can smoke a great many herbal substances; bong, pipe, it doesn;t much matter. Coltsfoot is good for the lungs when smoked, actually; mullein also. Certain herbs are smoked for promoting vivid dreams. And if it's such a powerful medicine, why should it be available for recreational purposes? --as I hoped to have made clear by now, I approve of its use both as a medicinal and as a recreational substance. And I think hemp should be cultivated for its industrial use, too. There are plenty of medicinal substances that people take for recreational purposes that are FAR more dangerous than marijuana. Codeine in cough syrup, for example. Oxycontin and Oxycodone (most phramacies in the Northeast cannot even stock Oxycontin now because of theft; it's a top-selling street drug now) . Demerol (highly addictive). Other narcotics used for chronic pain, available by prescription. And all abused for non-medical purposes. Why are these substances legal? They are addictive and dangerous. Their sale and distribution leads to illegal and violent crime. Yet we can get them from doctors' notes. Is the problem perhaps that the pharmaceutical corporations don't benefit from the development, patenting and sale of plants? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Bobert Date: 02 Mar 03 - 11:40 PM Taxol, which is derived from the bark of trees is used as the mainstay of chemotherapy for women suffering from breat cancer. Don't know where this info blends into the discussion but thought it was worth mentioning... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: hesperis Date: 02 Mar 03 - 11:45 PM Now Bobert's being the asshole. Anyway, everything can be used as medication, and pot does not necessarily lead to use of harder drugs. I knew a lot of people in high school who swore they'd never touch anything harder, because that's scary shit. I still think smoking pot (recreationally) is rather stupid, but it's even stupider to have it criminalized because that makes it a bigger problem than it would be if it were legal. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Sam L Date: 03 Mar 03 - 10:06 AM Guest rule boy, I don't think anarchy and civil disobedience are the same thing, and I think your worry that legal pot will break down society is overwrought. Having done my share of pot smoking I strongly suspect that cheap legal pot would be much less popular than the whole cult of the expensive illegal stuff. I think it was Peg? who mentioned commercial motives in keeping pot illegal. I'd suspect it. The money and the market is more the thing to watch in drugs, legal or otherwise. There's your decadence. It's decadent because, like a drug, money puts off the question of personal values, you don't need to figure that out, because with money you figure you can probably get or pursue whatever you value, whatever it turns out to be. So it induces an opium-dreamy, drugged, addicted, morally procrastinating view of life. Maybe we should make it illegal? No, of course not. We should use it responsibly, like anything else. Drug money is about money, not drugs. I sometimes think advertising can be inherently corrosive, and laws have emerged to control some of the worst of it in my lifetime. When people make links between drugs and where the money goes, I don't see the logic. It's just blaming drugs for the way things are, with money, with or without the drugs. When I tested for a CDL license there was a law still on the books in IN that you can't shift gears in an intersection--because of the old split-shift busses that would sometimes jam. So I didn't. The Trooper faulted me for going through it too slow, in second, and holding everyone up. Laws should reflect some basic pragmatism, and not clog up all our time and resources with piddly business and old irrelevent worries. Just because something is still illegal doesn't mean that it will break down the rule of law to change it, and just because there are no laws to properly prosecute new crimes like identity thefts and video voyeurism doesn't mean there shouldn't be, quick. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: *daylia* Date: 03 Mar 03 - 10:11 AM Ruleboy said "Self governance by law abiding people that treat each other with respect is my bag." I'm all for people that treat each other with respect. But 'self governance by law abiding people' seems a bit contradictory to me. How can one be truly self-governing unless the only laws one abides by are self-created and self-enforced? Or am I misinterpreting what you said? Regarding 'decadence' - Webster's Dictionary defines 'decadence' as "marked by decay and decline" and "characterized by or appealing to self-indulgence". When I'm bleary-eyed early in the morning, I'll often indulge myself with some coffee or Earl Grey tea, knowing that I feel more alert after a shot of caffiene. When I'm feeling sticky and yukky and tense I'll often light some candles, burn sweet incense and indulge myself in a long hot bubble bath, knowing that I'll feel more relaxed and content when I step out of the tub. And I often indulge my 'sweet tooth' by providing myself with various forms of chocolate (yum yum!) to enjoy after meals or at the end of a long day. I know these things aren't physical necessities, and they're probably self-indulgent, but does that make them 'decadent'? Well, only if I drank a couple gallons of coffee, spent most of my time in the tub or ate chocolate by the pound every day! Then I'd probably be setting myself up for quite a serious decline! IMO if people choose to indulge themselves by occasionally smoking a bit of cannabis, mild intoxicant that it is, this is no different than any of the self-indulgences I mentioned above. Furthermore, unless it presents an immediate threat to my well-being it's really none of my business. In my opinion, the only thing dangerous about cannabis (if it's used with common sense of course, like coffee and chocolate and alcohol) is the threat of being arrested and criminalized for using it. As far as 'drug money' being used to support 'terrorism' goes, even if that's true (and that's a pretty big 'if') it's no different than the 'support' I give both sides of the 'war on terrorism' every time I buy gas. Most people I know who use cannabis would much rather grow their own than buy it from the 'crime-lords', but the present laws have made that impossible. Want to quit funding the 'drug lords'? Then, in the case of marijuana anyway, let people get back to growing it themselves if they want to use it. Simple. Cocaine, however, is in a completely different ballpark because it is a chemical, not a plant. Coca in it's natural form is not harmful at all - it is in fact beneficial for the people who live high in the South American mountains where it grows. They chewed on the leaves for millenium because the mild effects helped to cope with the lack of oxygen at high altitudes. And it caused no health problems for anyone until Europeans discovered how to extract it's active ingredient to create a deadly drug many times more potent than it's natural form. And why did they do that? To make a profit! Same old story, very boring at this point. daylia |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: *daylia* Date: 03 Mar 03 - 12:40 PM PS Just thought of one more danger presented by using pot, and that's the danger to life, limb and wallet inherent in dealing with the often less than virtuous types who sell it. (Like the types who sell bongs for $300). And again, this has everything to do with the present laws and nothing to do with the plant itself. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: katlaughing Date: 03 Mar 03 - 01:46 PM daylia, they still use it in the mountains of Venezuela, near the COlumbian border, at least. My Rog was down there and said they put it in their coffee/tea, exactly for the reasons you state. He said it made for some strong coffee! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Kaleb Date: 03 Mar 03 - 02:24 PM Guest Rule-boy, In my county the law still states that I can beat my wife as long as I hit her with a stick that is no thicker than my thumb. I can do this and still be a law abiding citizen. THAT'S THE LAW. My point is that just because something is written in a law book somewhere doesn't make it right or just. -Kaleb |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 03 Mar 03 - 04:30 PM An anarchist is someone who believes self-governance is possible. If it were true that a major source of finance for terrorists was drug smuggling and drug dealing, that would be a very strong argument for legalisation. However I think it is pretty clear that in general, the main sources of their money are the same kind of dodgy semi-legal dealings as a lot of other organisations rely on. Property deals, protection rackets, money for favours and so forth. As for Amsterdam, great place, even aside from the dope - here's the tourist site. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Bobert Date: 03 Mar 03 - 06:56 PM heperis: Hey, Now I'm not too sure how I got the a**hole tag fri mentioning that Taxol is made from a plant, but hey, there are at least a few things in this world I don't understand. Yep, spend three yours yesterday wityh my wife at an "Azalea Lecture", heard so much Latin that I thought I'd I was in some kind of marathon mass at the Vatican and say 3000 slides of flowers that all looked alike to me. Now that's just fir starters on stuff I don't understand. How did my wife get me there? Hmmmmm? Seee, there's another one... But I think the a**hole tag was out of line considering the post. Hey, there are a lot of healing properties in plants. Heck, I take about ten herabs abd suppliments every day and believe strongl;y that these keep me healthy. Now "righteous" or "pomposous"? Hey, they're fine. Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: DougR Date: 04 Mar 03 - 12:15 AM Mebbe so, Bobert, but you didn't mention a great healer that was a mainstay when as a wee tad we could not get ahold of Camel cigarettes. Grapevine! You never mentioned smoking grapevine! DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: hesperis Date: 04 Mar 03 - 12:30 AM I was referring to your previous post, not the one right before mine, as it took me longer to read the thread than I realized. By the time I posted that, several people had posted, including you again. I thought you were reacting a bit too strongly to Guest Asshole in your post previous to that. I was half joking, not that it matters now... sorry. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Bobert Date: 04 Mar 03 - 08:23 AM Well, thankee. Heck I'd take *half an a**hole*... Gotta start somewhere... Grapevines, Doug? Sorry, but that was before my time. Never tried the banana peels either. Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 04 Mar 03 - 10:20 AM At one time people used to say Camel Cigaretes actually contained a proportion of camel dung. One thing about grass is I always think it smells a lot better than tobacco, say when you're walking through a crowd and it wafts over. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: leprechaun Date: 04 Mar 03 - 10:37 AM That's right Bobert. I was hoping you could find a nice nickname to make peace with our new GUEST. It looked like an opportunity to get nominated for the Mudcat Peace Prize. You could have moved on from there to get Fred Miller and me to quit lobbing bombs at each other. Industrial uses for hemp, like medical marijuana - just another scam. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: *daylia* Date: 04 Mar 03 - 12:22 PM leprechaun, retailers in my small Canadian cities have been selling hemp paper, clothing, bags and wallets, string for crafts, hand lotion and oils for a few years now. I don't buy the stuff - I find the clothing rough and itchy, and I don't like the smell of the cosmetic products. Historically though, hemp has been used for a myriad of industrial purposes, most importantly making rope (hence the old saying 'smoking rope' which is found in Mark Twain's novels etc.). Use of industrial hemp declined in the 20th century as new and improved synthetic fibers etc. became available. So you're probably right - making these products available again today could be just a tactic of the pro-legislation lobby. But that doesn't make the industrial use of the plant a 'scam', does it? Using hemp to make paper sure beats clearcutting the forests for wood imo! daylia |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 04 Mar 03 - 03:18 PM "Cannabis" is really the same word as "canvas", because that's what they made it out of. George Washington used to grow hemp, in quite a big way. But he wasn't just growing it for the fibre, it appears. There are records extant about his arranging to destroy the male plants in the harvest, at times, which is what you do when you want to make sure the female plants produce lots of resin instead of seeds. For making rope, the male palnts are actually better. You had a better class of George in charge over there, in those days. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: GUEST, herc Date: 04 Mar 03 - 03:44 PM Qualification: He wanted to *separate* the male plants, which make a better fiber. However, his (August 7, 1765) diary *implies* that he may have wanted to separate them before fertilization, which *implies* a desire to potentially increase the pharmacological efects of the female plants. http://ebook.iforgot.ca/index.cfm?page=details&Data.ArticleID=97 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Bobert Date: 04 Mar 03 - 06:59 PM Lepper: Think you and Fred just need to sit down and smoke a little peace pipe.... Oh, I fogot, they're illegal... Nevermind... I'll think of somethin' else... Ahhhhh, peace brownies? Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: GUEST,Ruleboy Date: 04 Mar 03 - 11:42 PM Daylia: marked by decay and decline fits perfectly. Todays pot has far more THC, Thera-Hydra-cannabinol than the original wild growing stuff. The the wine, caffiene, sweets, chocolate and candles and stuff is not produced by terrorists and they are not illegal. However overuse can be harmful to your health. Someday cigarettes will be outlawed and people will be puffing them clandestinely and claiming they can't hurt you. Kaleb: It means it is legal and you could not be prosecuted. Do you live in a democracy? If so work toward having it changed. There are dumb laws in the US pertaining to crap like eating peanuts on Sunday in public for example. Im am sure they could be changed if it was worth the effort but it is ignored. The laws on Marijuana are of a little more serious nature and are not ignored. At one time there were no laws on MJ use and even on Cocaine. Coca Cola was invented by a druggist in Atlanta who added Cocaine to some syrups. It was not carbonated back then. It was like a tonic and a pick meup. You could buy Opium over the counter in the form of Laudnum. Eventaully Opium, MJ and Cocaine were seen as dangerous substances and laws were passed against them. What can I say besides follow the laws until you can change them, If pot smokers were such intellectual giants as they claim to be, it should be a simple matter to enter government and work to change the law. If they do, by then they are of an age and position to realize that pot is bad so they leave the law as is. If you don't believe me just Ozzy Osborne. Rule Boy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: *daylia* Date: 04 Mar 03 - 11:57 PM Okay Ruleboy, you have it your way, and I'll have it mine. Why not? *yawn* "Whatever gets you thru the night it's alright ... it's alright ..." (Always liked John better than Ozzy). Sweet dreams - daylia |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 05 Mar 03 - 10:01 AM How about some zero tolerance for those sociopaths who think it's alright to eat peanuts on a Sunday? Where does a society that tolerates law-breaking like that end up? It's a slippery slope... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Sam L Date: 05 Mar 03 - 10:36 AM Damn! I thought we were getting along okay, Leprechaun, just arguing. Really I did. I keep doing this with people. I like the sparring. One of the earliest sociological studies of criminals found that they were generally less than average intelligence. Later another study pointed out that the first study had used prison populations--exclusively the criminals who got caught. Leprechaun, do you think maybe people who use pot responsibly don't care to show it off to you? Think maybe you tend to see a lot of the worst-case? I've accepted little gifts of weed from old friends, though it seemed a waste, because I felt I ought to, for old-time's sake. And the little gifts sat around for 8 years in a drawer--a drug prosecutor close to me told me to shut up about this, didn't want to know. I can see why. Got rid of it at a party eventually. Rule-Boy, the laws are changing and will change further, without my lifting a finger. When you can have popular movies with pot dealer clowns, Jay and Silent Bob, or even anti-hero-heros, American Beauty, it says something about the general culture. Not that they are growing tolerant of pot--that's old news--but they are just inertly tolerant of still having pot illegal. They won't be forever. You have a point. If someone I know, a pretty messed-up person I'll grant you, bi-polar and unwilling to get help for it, dead-sober and no tobacco, but wasting time and money not just on pot, but on going to concerts of bands I thought were dead, buying t-shirts and crap, having lost all self-confidence--if that person went to jail on account of the pot, I'd be pissed. And yes, partly at myself for having done nothing to change the law. It's horrible to think of. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Peg Date: 05 Mar 03 - 11:38 AM leprechaun, please exaplin why the industrial use of hemp is yet "another scam." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Peg Date: 05 Mar 03 - 11:42 AM Here's an interesting article: http://www.emagazine.com/september-october_1999/0999feat2.html |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Peg Date: 05 Mar 03 - 11:43 AM Here's the clicky: |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Peg Date: 05 Mar 03 - 11:46 AM right, HERE's the clicky: http://www.emagazine.com/september-october_1999/0999feat2.html |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: *daylia* Date: 05 Mar 03 - 11:50 AM "Eventaully Opium, MJ and Cocaine were seen as dangerous substances and laws were passed against them." Ruleboy your lack of knowledge on this subject is really glaring! If the law-makers were truly concerned about protecting people from so-called "dangerous" substances, why are tobacco and alcohol and gasoline still legal, for just a few examples? Please, take the time to do some research - and use your own head to do some creative critical analysis of what you discover before you make claims like that! Here's what Canadian sociologist/criminologist Peter Elgin has to say about the reasons for the development of Canadian narcotics legislation criminalizing the import, manufacture, sale, possession and use for other than medical purposes of opium and it's derivatives, and of cocaine and marihuana, back in the time-period 1908-1923: "(1) the racial conflict between 'whites' and 'orientals', (2) the status conflict between the high-status medical profession and its clients using narcotics for therapeutic purposes and the low-status users, particularly Chinese, using opium for pleasure, and (3) the prevailing cultural beliefs and values about drugs and their links to sexual promiscuity and 'race mixing' ... (God forbid, interracial sex)." "...Those legal norms created the public morality that was responsible for the moral transformation of a private indulgence into a public crime.... In time, through the efforts of zealous reformers and enforcers and the paucity of organized or influential opposition, the public came to share that drug ideology that motivated the initial anti-drug crusaders. ...The 'solution' to the marijuana problem is not the prevention of it's use but a changing of attitudes towards it. Such a change could also have other consequences. If the cultivation, distribution and sale of cannabis were legalized, then one would do away with a lot of deviant activity. One would have put an end to the need to smuggle the drug and also the illegalities involved in the use of the profits from the trade. ... Whether marijuana is harmful is a complicated question, and whether it is more so than other drugs [tobacco and alcohol] in widespread and legal use is debatable." From "A Sociology of Crime", 1992 Dr. Peter Elgin and Dr. Stephen Hester Peter Elgin was one of my professors at Wilfrid Laurier University, highly respected and certainly no 'pot-head'. Although he did make some waves being a fan of Noam Chomsky! Anyway, it cost me much time and effort - and money - to study these things. I'm certainly not going to do any more of your research for you! daylia |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Sam L Date: 06 Mar 03 - 11:51 AM Well, I'll be accused again of knowing everything, but I think Ruleboy is expressing an attitude, not an opinion, and while it's fun to poke at it, I don't expect to change it. A reasonable opinion based on weighing alternatives might be changed by information, but an attitude does as it likes. I was very much looking forward to an argument based on the origin of the use of pot, with a stated presumption of cause and effect. Never mind goverment, culture, religion, fate, history, natural disaster, let's set out to blame pot with a xenophobic and racist spin. That anyone thinks they can make a reasonable argument out of an unreasoning premise makes me want to argue in fun that smoking pot must improve cognitive function and logic. And it shouldn't be necesary to point out to Leprechaun that comparing sensible use of one substance to excess with another makes no earthly sense. But... I don't think I'd want cops to go around deciding which laws they liked, and I've had jobs where I had to maintain an unreasoned attitude. Retail--having to maintain all that fake professional Niceness, with people you'd personally rather kick hard in the ass. Maybe that's why I seem to be prone to venting. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 06 Mar 03 - 10:21 PM My understanding is that it was basically that, once prohibition of alcohol in the USA was ended, the agency which had been built up on the basis of prohibition had to find something to deal with, or it would have been in danger of getting wound up, and marijuana fitted the bill - with the big advantage, at the time, that it was disempowered people like Blacks and Mexicans who tended to use it. And the rest of the world just followed Big Brother Jonathan, which is often the easiest thing to do. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: GUEST,Ruleboy Date: 07 Mar 03 - 01:49 PM "Eventually Opium, MJ and Cocaine were seen as dangerous substances and laws were passed against them." The only way I could be wrong about this statement is #1 one or more of them had laws passed to control the use of them or #2 there were laws against them all along. Possibility #3 is that no one or at least no one in the position to pass laws saw them as dangerous. Now which part or parts of the statement is wrong? Tobacco an alky is controlled by minimum age requirements. Someday I expect tobacco, nicotine to be exact, to be illegal. It is an addictive drug that is harmful. At least the people suing the tobacco companies claim it is and they are winning. Alky is not dangerous if taken in moderation. A lot of common things taken in excess is dangerous. You can die from eating too much salt. It is difficult to draw a line between what is necessary like salt and what is unnecessary like drugs. Has anybody's life ever been improved by using illegal drugs? If so they don't have nuch of a life. They need to fix their life instead of escaping from it by using drugs. Ruleboy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: leprechaun Date: 07 Mar 03 - 02:04 PM Isn't it a horrible thing to have an innocent plant so degraded and maligned? How distressing that a plant, made by nature, should be subjected to such obloquy by mere humans. Here's a plant that is so useful for food, medicine, fiber...why, there are hundreds of uses, and the native Americans weren't reluctant to use it. Of course I'm talking about, Typhacaeae Latifolia, more commonly known as the cattail. Unfortunately ther's no part of that plant you can smoke to get high. That's why there isn't a multi-million dollar industry making cattail wallets for junior high kids to carry around. You won't find scratchy, coarse, ugly skirts and pants made from cattails being sold in head shops. Woody Harrelson won't be holding any rallys to promote the industrial use of cattails, and he won't be making ludicrous assertions that we can save all the old growth forests if we just start making paper out of cattails. There may have been a time when hemp was a legitimate industrial material, but that time is long passed. There's no paper, cloth or ropw you can make hemp that can't be made better and cheaper with other materials. If the plant didn't get you high, Woody Harrelson and half a million hippies in scratchy clothes wouldn't give a shit about hemp. Cattail |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: leprechaun Date: 07 Mar 03 - 02:25 PM Peg - Oxycontin, and many forms of codiene ARE controlled substances. You can't use them recreationally without breaking the law. That's why we have pharmacists. As for going to prison for smoking pot, where the hell does that happen? Where I come from, people get a ticket for simple possession, recently raised to $250.00. I avoid marijuana cases every chance I get, because heroin, cocaine and meth are much more fun for me. (Heroin's my favorite) But I helped with an arrest of two fellows with sixty pounds of BC bud last year. One of them got probation, and the other one spent a few months in jail because he had a criminal history. Right now, the feds classify marijuana as a Schedule I controlled substance, ostensibly on a par with heroin, and more dangerous, based on the schedule, than cocaine, a Schedule II substance. But the schedule doesn't equate when compared with sentencing guidelines. Federal prosecutors won't even look at a marijuana case unless it involves more than eighty pounds, or several hundred plants. Marijuana offenders aren't sentenced anywhere near as severely as heroin, meth and cocaine offenders. That's as it should be. Some people think we should legalize all drugs. I think that's a very bad idea. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Peg Date: 07 Mar 03 - 02:31 PM leprechain: Peg - Oxycontin, and many forms of codiene ARE controlled substances. You can't use them recreationally without breaking the law. That's why we have pharmacists. --I know. You're missing my point. My point is, these substances are far easier (and legal) to obtain than marijuana and are far more dangerous and addictive. And they are a MUCH bigger problem as a street drug. As for going to prison for smoking pot, where the hell does that happen? Where I come from, people get a ticket for simple possession, recently raised to $250.00. --Not for smoking. For possession of small amounts. Texas. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Beccy Date: 07 Mar 03 - 05:02 PM I tried smoking some dried hay in high school. My advice? Don't try it. Ick... I think marijuana ought to be decriminalized, but until it is, doesn't it make sense that everything connected with it (bongs, pipes, etc...) ought to be illegal, too? I think decriminalization will come, but until then it's a controlled substance who's purchase supports the criminal community in a direct or indirect way. Who wants that grief and guilt? (I might point out that even if decriminalization comes, I will not be partaking...) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: open mike Date: 07 Mar 03 - 05:21 PM http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1107-990728.html a story about the internet intrusion allowed for the sake of ... national security?? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: leprechaun Date: 08 Mar 03 - 03:41 PM Oxycontin is available by prescription, but I bet I could get a pound of marijuana quicker than I could get quarter ounce of oxycontin, legally or illegally. I'll bet if I arrest somebody for selling a quarter ounce of oxycontin, that person will get in more trouble than the person who sells a pound of marijuana. Even though, from the feds point of view, oxycontin is deemed useful, and therefore legal if obtained by prescription, its illegal sale would eventually get an offender in more trouble than the sale of marijuana. In that respect, the federal schedules are inconsistent, when compared with actual sanctions. There is a federal law against manufacturing and marketing paraphernalia specifically designed for the illegal use of controlled substances. I wasn't even aware of it until my DEA buddies came up with Operation Pipe Dreams. There's also a state law in my area, but it has not been enforced. Until this happened, the paraphernalia merchants were getting away it by claiming, (nudge, nudge, wink, wink) that their products were only for the consumption of legal products. That same nudgenudgewinkwink is currently used by the overwhelmingly vast majority of ostensibly "seriously ill" people who have obtained "medical marijuana" cards. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Sam L Date: 08 Mar 03 - 04:23 PM Well, I guess I'd have to say my life was enhanced a little by pot, at one point. The best my brother and I ever got along was when we used to get high together, talk about music endlessly. It's a small thing, but I wouldn't give it back. And I really do believe that after you get high for a while, you learn it, can do it mentally without the drug, you can access a mental frame of mind in which everything is a little bit funny. There are times at work, in difficult circumstances, when I throw out the idea that it's funny, on no ground whatsoever but class-A stoner silliness, and it catches on, we all have a better, less stressful day. Pot helped me squeak through a difficult adolescence, and when I found other things to do, it was the easiest thing in the world to quit. On the down-side, it takes up a lot of time and trouble, makes you tired, eventually, and costs way too much. I don't think everything connected to it should be illegal, or any of it, for that matter, but the headshop stuff is more of the overblown commercial culture of pot that doesn't happen to suit my personality. Any respectable stoner should be able to make a bong out of any three given objects, anyway. As if pot didn't cost enough itself, you've got to buy a bunch of pointless paraphenalia. What a scam. I tend to agree with Leprechaun that hemp is sort of a scam, overvalued as a material because of second-hand-smoking-pot hipness--except that I think overpriced illegal pot is a scam also. But there are lots of basically senseless marketing scams that we can't really fix, except by not buying them. Is it necesary, Ruleboy? O' reason not the need, man, for in the basest thing a beggar is superfluous--or something like that from King Lear. It's one of the published virtues of the earth, or something like that. It's quite pleasant, soothing, entertaining, pretty harmless, and not addictive. Will we have to get rid of useless, un-productive sex, too? Bummer, dude. Hope I die before doctors figure out how to make me live so long. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: JennyO Date: 09 Mar 03 - 12:14 AM A couple of people have said that clothes made from hemp are "scratchy". I would definitely disagree with that. I have three hemp shirts, and they are like a heavy cotton, and very soft. They feel substantial, hang beautifully, and creases tend to fall out of them. I love them. I also have a beautiful hand cream made from hemp. As for smoking it, I'd just like to say that you don't hear about husbands bashing their wives in a fit of "stonedness" (is that a word?) Misuse of our legal drug of choice, alcohol, is a catalyst in many violent crimes and dangerous driving, but the big companies own that industry, so you don't see that made illegal. I don't mind the odd drink (or the other stuff for that matter)in moderation, but I can't see any moral reason for one being legal, and the other not. I might PM Paul (Clean Supper) about this thread. He wrote a good song on this issue. Jenny |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: leprechaun Date: 09 Mar 03 - 12:37 AM When they completely legalize it, I probably won't feel like it's the end of the world. The end of the world won't happen until they legalize heroin. In my unit we joke about how, when the anarchists take over the world, all drugs will be legal. People will be shooting up at the bus stop in front of the grade school and we'll be reduced to saying, "I'm watching you fellow! You're just lucky it isn't ten years ago!" They'll still need cops though - to arrest people who eat meat, make money, or use internal combustion engines. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Bobert Date: 09 Mar 03 - 12:48 AM Well, Iz here to say that I went up to the neighbors tonight with my guitar, a slide and 3 beers in a bag. Well, was it my idea to bring out the hard stuff? Heck no... They brought it out and, well, since real pipes are *outlawed*, we had to make a pipe out of a beer can... Ahhh, so we did. Glad we weren't busted by Johnny Ashcroft for havin' a pipe made out of a beer can! Whew! Like real terrorism here! Ahhhh, like anyone ever think about why it is that any frat boy, GWB hisself, can go out drunk out of their gords drivin' on the highways killin' folks and if I smoke a little pot, Mr. Ashcroft wants to send my butt off for 99? Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: leprechaun Date: 09 Mar 03 - 01:01 AM I apologize Bobert. Looking over this thread, it appears it was Bee Dubya Ell who first called our GUEST an Asshole. It appears you've been falsely accused. When Ashcroft sends you to prison for 99 years, I will recommend leniency in the interest of justice. But you can get a substantial reduction in the remaining 66 years if you'll give up your supplier. Ha ha, just kidding! I already know who they are. I just access the secret internet server, and with a quick search I get the name of every person in the United States who bought a beer can in the last six months. I'm gonna have to start mass producing Custody Reports! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 09 Mar 03 - 08:39 AM Has anyone ever invented a pipe that you couldn't use for smoking tobacco? Or that you couldn't use for smoking pot? Or matches that you could only use for one or the other? Or cigarette papers? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: *daylia* Date: 09 Mar 03 - 09:01 AM Jenny, maybe you folk down under know how to make hemp clothes! Honestly, the stuff sold here in Barrie Ont looks like it's made out of bailing twine and feels about as pleasant. Most of it looks like a Grade 8 HomeEc class did the cutting and sewing. Is your hemp clothes 100% hemp, or is it combined with cotton or some other fiber for a softer feel and better fit? People's tastes vary in what smells good too. A few people I know like patchouli oil, but I can't get away from it fast enough. The Hemp stuff smells similiar - to me, anyway. I'd like to see it legalized, the crime-gangs put out of business. I remember a few teens and young adults murdered here over the last couple decades because they owed drug money to the wrong person. What a waste. And I'd like to see the plant used for purposes other than just getting high. Like making paper. I've seen the vast tracks clear-cut forests a few times driving across this great country of mine - especially in BC and northern Ontario. The devastation angers me and breaks my heart. Even if paper manufacturers used 50% hemp, 50% wood it would help, imo. There were a lot of lay-offs in logging industry on Vancouver Island last winter, due to the squabble over soft-wood taxes with the US. I was almost relieved, though. Vancouver Island is one of the few places left in North America where Bald Eagles nest. But between the loggers felling the ancient trees (nests and all!) and the pollution from the fishing industry, they are becoming an endangered species there as well. People just don't seem to care at all. Most days, I like the eagles better! ;) Sorry bout the 'drift there - daylia |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Sam L Date: 09 Mar 03 - 09:28 AM I'm gonna start mass producing black market bongs and pipes, double the price every few years, and claim they are much better than they used to be. (Who remembers anyway.) Maybe I can make them out of industrial hemp and get free celebrity advertising. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 09 Mar 03 - 01:54 PM I'm rather surprised the Netherlands hasn't turned up so far in Bush's Axis of Evil list. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: leprechaun Date: 09 Mar 03 - 01:58 PM Fred - I have some interesting pipe design ideas I stole from the folks we arrested. I think they were gonna patent them, but then they got high. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Bobert Date: 09 Mar 03 - 06:11 PM Lepper: No problem. I thought we had all-ready gotten that one staight. But just 'cause we're tight again don't mean Iz gonna tell you were I grow my "evil weed". No sir... Actually, I've still got an ounce left from last year and as little as I smoke, I may not plant anything. Yeah, I know. "What kind of old hippie are you anyway, Bobert?" Well, Lepper, everything in moderation. Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: leprechaun Date: 09 Mar 03 - 06:48 PM Nice buds, no seeds? Keep it too long it gets stale. Have you considered a vacuum sealer? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Bobert Date: 09 Mar 03 - 08:56 PM Thanks, Lep. Heck of an idea. I never thought about that. Then what? I like to bury my extra stash in a zip lock baggie in a mason jar out in the woods. I bury it about a foot deep. Ya' reckon them dog can sniff it? Ahhh, as fir seeds, nah? I don't use 'em. I got friends who clone and they jus gimmie two 'er three palnts and I take 'em back in the holler where I got some nice holes and refresh 'em with some cow manure and a little bat dung, mulch em' good and let nature take care of the rest of it. Then 'round the 1st of October I go on back there and see what's up. Usually some nice sticky buds. Heck, one year I went back there and all three palnts had growed about 12 feet tall. Man, oh man. I harvested one of 'em, pulled the other two and just left 'em fir the deer. Heck, even danged deer deserve to catch a buzz now and then. Right? Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: leprechaun Date: 09 Mar 03 - 11:58 PM Nice and nach'ral, no hydroponics or grow lights for you! In fact, indulging in the manner you describe, if you were to get caught, it would offend me to see you go to prison. I don't know if simple possession is decriminalized in West Virginia like it is in Oregon, but chances are that cultivation penalties are more draconian. So ten cuidado mi amigo. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Sam L Date: 10 Mar 03 - 02:33 PM Funny you mention it, Leprechaun, because I was thinking when I posted that making bongs and stuff illegal was kinda like giving a patent to the illegal business. Except when, unlike patents, enforcement favors the little guy. The PTO used to adhere to uncoded standards of decorum, but now you can do nearly anything. I think you could probably only go for a design patent, in most cases. You couldn't argue a new use for smoking different substances, because they'd come back saying it's obvious you could smoke different stuff. The only utility-worthy idea I can think of, off-hand, would be a lowfire pipe or bong, based on the thermodynamic that a burning substance burns up some of it's effective ingredients, the lowest heat is more effective. I bet there are a few. I wonder how it plays out now in regard to patent law, given the obvious multi-purposes, as McGrath observed. But I'm too lazy to check into it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 10 Mar 03 - 02:46 PM I believe that there is evidence that the higher the heat of the burning, the worse the carcinogen production, and that might be one reason why cigarette smoking is especially dangerous (only one reason - inhaling the smoke is a major factor here as well). So Fred Miller's idea might actually make a lot of sense - water pupes of course lower the temperature of the smoke itself, but that's a different mater. People often assume when they see water pipes that they are just used for pot, but they have traditionally been used for tobacco as well. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Bobert Date: 10 Mar 03 - 07:16 PM Not to worry, Lepster... This is Wes Ginny. We ain't got no cops here. No crime either. Figgure that one out... Like which came first the crook or the cop? Anyway, we ain't got 'em in this holler. Well, okay, there was one time when Ricky Penwell, with one leg in cast and supposedlu arrested in the back of a state police car riding close by, somehow overpowered the sate boy, stole his car and, to make things worser, the officer's dog and left the officer on the side of the road. Then Ricky headed back in this holler. Boy, we had cops that day. No one got out of the holler without having their trunks checked fir a guy with a cast on one leg and a police dog. But they didn't catch him. Nope, that old boy drove the old logging road up on the ridge past the Peace Meditation Center and thru three or four streams and came out down around Mt.Weather, where Ollie North lives. But those were the last cops 'round here. Ahhhh, you are probably wonderin' why we ain't got no crime? Well, Dreaded Guest knows. We all got guns! No one messes with no one! Hmmmmmm? Bobert p.s., Lepper. Gets me all choked up to think you'd be pissed if I got busted! Sniff, sniff.... sniff....... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: leprechaun Date: 10 Mar 03 - 09:22 PM I wouldn't be pissed if you were busted. I'd be pissed if they put you in prison for possession of pot. There's a difference. And no wonder you ain't got no cops. I saw a West Virginia cop on the cover of Parade Magazine's "income" issue. The poor fellow only makes 28 G a year. He'd have to sell bongs to make ends meet. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: *daylia* Date: 10 Mar 03 - 09:33 PM Hey leprechaun - so that's what the raids are all about!!! ;-) daylia |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Bobert Date: 10 Mar 03 - 09:35 PM LOL, Lep. But, hey, 28 G's, ya say? Hmmmmmm? Sound like aton of money to me. Maybe I'll apply. You got any ideas on passin' the pee test? 28 G's? Wow. I would have figgured about $7 an hour! Man, like's that some real dough. BTW, now Iz real hurt!.... Fir a minute there I thought you would be pissed if I got busted! But no! You would love to see me get busted. Just don't want me to do no hard time. Well, danged, Lepster, that's real white of ya! Danged! Bobert Awww, jus funnin'. Hope they bust you for being a knucklehead.. but hope you don't do no hard time... See how it feels? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: *daylia* Date: 10 Mar 03 - 09:40 PM PS Sure wish they'd give you the mandate to bust the corporate 'criminals' responsible for poisoning the air and sickening the waters and destroying the forests instead ... but that's probably only in my wildest (heaven forbid not marijuana-inspired!) dreams ... daylia |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Bobert Date: 10 Mar 03 - 09:57 PM Yo Lepper: What daylia said! Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: JennyO Date: 11 Mar 03 - 06:34 AM Hey Bobert, what's become of Dreaded Guest? Things have quietened down around here! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: JennyO Date: 11 Mar 03 - 06:51 AM How about that! Clicked on the next thread and there was DG again. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Feds Bust Bong Sellers From: Sam L Date: 11 Mar 03 - 09:26 AM 28g? Dang. I could do the pee test, but can't hold a position of resposibility where I have to understand radio squawk. Ca#$r $56*(2, rqepo*&d to &84*^#@#!^&! What? Do What? For 28G? Forget it. I'd rather teach. Somebody tells me there's a lawsuit about a state-hired medicinal weed grower who was then busted by the feds, but I haven't found any real news about it. |