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BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: Amos Date: 13 Jun 06 - 08:07 PM Geeze, Hub, lissen here, I got some ocean-front property in Arizona you should think about buying as a retirement spot...Talk about naive platitudes! I swan. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: Charley Noble Date: 13 Jun 06 - 08:18 PM Pond scum floats to the top. Karl Rove is in good company. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: Arne Date: 13 Jun 06 - 08:42 PM SuSu's Hubby: Again.... Q: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? A: Evidently not or else he would have at least been indicted the same as Libby. Actually, he is. He decided to come clean during his grand jury testimony, apparently, but either he's a liar or McClellan and Dubya are liars (well, Dubya is a liar on so many other things, as was McClellan). Dubya said that no one in the maladministration was responsible (and that he'd fire them if they were; something he has not done for Rove), and McClellan said he talked to Libby and Rove an dthey told him they weren't involved with the Plame outing. Rove was initially saying he'd heard of Plame from journalists, but that just wasn't true. In fact, his latest accounts reportedly show that there were at least six people in the maladministration busy smearing Wilson, and some outing Plame. He may have dodged a bullet with evasive, ambiguous, or incomplete answers when first questioned, but there's no arguing that he a piece of lying scum. Cheers, |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: Alba Date: 13 Jun 06 - 08:48 PM Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? Well Duh! When Ole Scooter goes on Trail, Snarl Rove will be called. So he has a bit of time between now and then to rehearse his next collection of distorted truths. (Good chance however, what with his bad memory and all, he will have forgot the details when he is called to testify!) So he got himself some breathing space but more importantly, Snarl is around for the November deflections, I mean, Elections. A Guy that spins Lies for a living would be so stupid as to allow himself to be indicted when the White House is nearly on it's knees seeking approval!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: Susu's Hubby Date: 13 Jun 06 - 09:06 PM "Actually, he is. He decided to come clean during his grand jury testimony, apparently," So if that is the case then he didn't lie to begin with or he would be charged with perjury. You're talking yourselves in so many circles here that I'm starting to get dizzy. He wasn't indicted either for the outing or for perjury. Libby wasn't indicted for the outing. Just for perjury. We'll wait for the trial to see if that holds. Starting to get the picture here, pal? You guys are starting to believe the fantasies that you have created in your head due to your hatred of this administration. Liberals (or progressives or whatever you're calling yourselves today) are still losing ground in the elections. Take the election in CA last week as proof. I mean...if a liberal loses in California then you guys may as well just stop now and start getting ready for 2012. The mid-terms and the next Presidential election are still safe in conservative hands. Thank God for that. Hubby |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: GUEST,TIA Date: 13 Jun 06 - 09:49 PM So Hubby Boy, who exactly is indicted in "Sealed vs. Sealed" JFGI |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: GUEST Date: 13 Jun 06 - 10:07 PM Hubby, you are trying to deal with a mentality that is below average, well below average. Their minds have been programmed long ago and true facts will not alter them. It is okay, however, as their mindset will permit the the better Party to remain in power. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: Bobert Date: 13 Jun 06 - 10:18 PM Only better at winning election because, hey, they are in power and therefore can strongarm/extort money from corporations for campaigns and over the last 20 years the candidate who spent the most oney in all federal elections, wins... The American people are too buzy beating their brains out trying to keep their heads above water to have the luxary of really sorting thru policies so they just go with the soundbites they catch on the TV... And more $$$$ = more soundbites... I have learned here that the Bush supporter will not discuss policies... They will attack you personally but they will not discuss or debate policy... There is a reason for this... They can't... They either know that the oplicies they support are indefensable of they are tto ignorant of the specifics to engage in anything greater than rereading some bumper sticker position... And that definately describes Hubby... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: GUEST,TIA Date: 13 Jun 06 - 10:21 PM Whoever you are nameless one, I'll measure my mentality against yours any day. You name the metric. TIA on an F'in rampage tonight... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: GUEST Date: 13 Jun 06 - 10:27 PM Tia, go to bed, you are hopelessly outclassed. And bobert, the economy is rocking, more millionaires being created and I put over $50 worth of gasoline in my pickup today and simply said thanks to my debit card as all the people I know are doing. Speaking of keeping one's head above water, how are your buildings doing and how is the new house you are building coming along. God, you are a trip! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: GUEST,Condi Date: 13 Jun 06 - 10:32 PM Another Troll in Training. Must be Trolling Summer School. Amateurs! Can't live with them but you CAN live without them. Bue Bye Troll. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: GUEST,TIA Date: 13 Jun 06 - 10:32 PM Outclassed? By one who doesn't have the nads to sign a name? You're a chicken. You're afraid of me little person. Don't worry, I won't hurt anything but your feelings. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: Ron Davies Date: 13 Jun 06 - 10:35 PM Hubby-- "The midterms and the 2008 election are still safe..." It might be slightly premature to start crowing just yet. It ain't over til.... Any argument there? Sorry to burst your balloon. It would help if you actually thought before posting--also it would be a pleasant change. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: GUEST,TIA Date: 13 Jun 06 - 10:37 PM "..if a liberal loses in California..." A liberal came damn close to winning in one of the safest Republican districts in the country. Sleep tight Hubby. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: GUEST Date: 13 Jun 06 - 10:38 PM Now, now, Tia - don't get sore. Besides, I have not a clue what a "Tia" is. Most here use false names so "Guest" means every bit aa much as "Tia". "Tia".....Nope, doesn't mean a thing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: GUEST,TIA Date: 13 Jun 06 - 10:42 PM If you had half a brain, you could find out exactly who I am, and where I live, and what I do. "Guest" don't mean shit. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: Bobert Date: 13 Jun 06 - 10:49 PM TIA is a registered member who has some level of transparency, including perhaps a bio or photo somewhere in Mudville... You, Guest, on the other hand are a sniper, just like the the nutballs that shot folks from the safety of their car trunk... You have no transparancy at all... Not only that, your argument, if that's what you ***think*** you are posting are not arguments at all but just attacks from the safety of yer car trunk... TIA said you are a chicken... Not too sure about that but you certainly are about the most cowardly creep that's been 'round here for a long time... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: GUEST,Rufus Date: 13 Jun 06 - 10:49 PM Looks like Bobert's got his tit in the wringer here tryin' ta keep hold of his creditability. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: Arne Date: 14 Jun 06 - 12:17 AM Susu's Hubby: [Arne]: "Actually, he is. He decided to come clean during his grand jury testimony, apparently," So if that is the case then he didn't lie to begin with or he would be charged with perjury. You're talking yourselves in so many circles here that I'm starting to get dizzy. I'm not the one having problems thinking. If it could be shown he lied to the grand jury, you can bet there'd be indictments. If what he did was give incomplete, evasive, or even arguably false statements to the FBI and/or first grand juries, he might get off the hook. FWIW, Rove's defence of his changed story (according to his lawyers) was that he "forgot" about certain things, and that the Viveca Novak stuff "refreshed" his memory (well, maybe that and the e-mails) and now he wanted to sing a different tune and fess up to outing Plame. But there's no disagreement from anyone (including Rove's lawyers) that Rove did indeed change his story. They had to plead that he was 'really, really forgetful' and that he didn't snooker the first questioners on purpose. Fat chance of that for a person as meticulous (and as slimy) as Rove is. Apparently Fitzgerald didn't think he could get a conviction "beyond reasonable doubt" on the evidence. But face it, Rove fibbed the first time and only changed his sotry when it became clear that others wer going to dispute his account. He wasn't indicted either for the outing or for perjury. The outing requires a number of elements including "intent" that may have been hard to prove. Fitzgerald explained this in his Libby press conference. Libby wasn't indicted for the outing. Just for perjury. We'll wait for the trial to see if that holds. See above. FWIW, the White House outed Plame. There's no doubt on that count. That was wrong. Proving the specific crime was committed by a specific person is the harder part. Starting to get the picture here, pal? I've had "the picture" from a long time back, buddy. I've read "Bush's Brain", by James Moore, and know just what kind of a slimeball Rove is. You ought to as well. Would open your eyes up a bit about the folks you're defending. You guys are starting to believe the fantasies that you have created in your head due to your hatred of this administration. Ummm, not me. Seems that the person that is seeing hallucinations here is you. Liberals (or progressives or whatever you're calling yourselves today) are still losing ground in the elections. Take the election in CA last week as proof. Huh?!? You talking Bixby? She came a lot closer than any Democrat has come in a long time in that district. I mean...if a liberal loses in California then you guys may as well just stop now and start getting ready for 2012. I thnk you're just confused. Matter of fact, that's almost a certainty. Do you really think that California has no Republicans in office? The mid-terms and the next Presidential election are still safe in conservative hands. Thank God for that. Oh, so God's on your side. My, I'm quaking. I'd just reference Bobby Zimmerman's views on that.... Cheers, |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: Susu's Hubby Date: 14 Jun 06 - 12:43 AM "FWIW, the White House outed Plame. There's no doubt on that count. That was wrong. Proving the specific crime was committed by a specific person is the harder part." I say let's appoint Arne as the special prosecutor then since he knows so much. He's quite sure of himself. He's read a book that says Rove is a bad guy. Please....you're holding on to an invisible rope that's tied around your neck. But since you do like to believe in your self-created fantasies, go ahead and jump from the coffee table and see what happens. Hubby |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: Barry Finn Date: 14 Jun 06 - 01:12 AM The news tonight was that Rove will not be indited by the AG. I'm not a bit suprize & I don't belive anyone will ever be. Can anyone say "WHITE WASH IN THE WHITEHOUSE". Barry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: Arne Date: 14 Jun 06 - 01:17 AM Correction: I guess it was Viveca Novak's conversation with Luskin that "refreshed" Rove's memory of talking to Cooper. See here. Cheers, |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: GUEST Date: 14 Jun 06 - 08:09 AM If Rove lied to the Grand Jury, even a little bit, this Prosecutor would have him in chains. bobert, now who is the liar? And Tia, I don't need to know who you are, where you are and what you do. How would that change things? Or do you think that my knowing those things would allow me to better understand your frustrations? Rufus, what credibility for bobert? Appears he has lost the bulk of it. I am still trying to understand why some in this forum can't simply debate rather than attack the poster. The only purpose that serves is for the attacked to lower their presumed value of the attacker. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: Arne Date: 14 Jun 06 - 09:48 AM Guest: There's little argument that Rove changed his story considerably (in part after Matt Cooper agreed to talk about his contacts). Rove knew the jig was up, and decided to come clean about hs role in outing Plame. His "excuse"? "Oh, I forgot about that little conversation with Cooper! Silly me, how could I be so forgteful?" And therfe was the matter of that e-mail Rove-Libby (IIRC) e-mail turning up much later. They just mysteriously "found" it. Keep in mind that Libby did the same thing; their initial approach was to stone-wall, hoping the reporters would (inexplicably) keep their actions secret, but they both changed their tune after Miller and Cooper started talking (and showed that they both had been spreading the news about Plame). So did Rove "lie" (that is, make a material statement he believed to be false to a grand jury [or FBI agent] under oath)? You have to prove all three elements beyond reasonable doubt to get a perjury conviction, and maybe Fitzgerald thought there wasn't enough there to sustain that. But did Rove lie (that is, make a false statement)? The anser there is undobtedly yes. But that's SOP for this maladministration. Dubya is an obvious liar, and McClellan was lying all the time. Cheers, |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: GUEST Date: 14 Jun 06 - 10:10 AM Arne, I agree "there is little aguement that Rove changed his story......, I can not any fact that says he did. Well, speculation. That unfortunate fellow (Leopold?) that wrote several months ago that Rove HAD been indicated was beside himself yesterday on the Art Schultz program on Air America. Mr Schultz flat told him he had the burden of proof. I would not be surprised if Leopold takes his own life after listening to him. I hope not - any form of Politics is not worth it. While I still think of my self as a Conservation, I find Art Schultz to be basically "fair and balanced". The 'right' should listen to him and the 'left' should try Limbaugh occasionally. Ignore Randi Rhoades and Shaun Hannity, however. Those two are mind numbing! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: Amos Date: 14 Jun 06 - 12:19 PM Rove is big, in many senses, and he is certainly plump even after his recent weight loss, so I guess those two characteristics are indisputable. And, I submit, he is professionally by necessity a liar, so immersed in finding the right spin that sticking to facts or truth is a virtue completely lost from view in his world. So....yes. On all three points. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: 282RA Date: 14 Jun 06 - 12:38 PM >>While I still think of my self as a Conservation,<< I still think of myself as a liberation so I guess we're both fulla shit. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: GUEST Date: 14 Jun 06 - 12:54 PM 282RA - I think I meant Reservation............... And Arne, Many have been asking for months for one source that could prove that Rove lied. Or "made a false statement". A source please, not an opinion or a couple of people who surmise that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: CarolC Date: 14 Jun 06 - 01:11 PM The mid-terms and the next Presidential election are still safe in conservative hands. Keep telling yourself that, Hubster, if it helps you sleep at night. But the truth is, there is absolutely nothing conservative about the Bush administration. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: Susu's Hubby Date: 14 Jun 06 - 04:34 PM Well then CarolC, let's see if this works for you then... The mid-terms and the next Presidential election are still safe while not in the control of liberals. In fact, that does have a sweeter ring to it. Thanks for urging me to change my wording. For the rest of you out there, do you still believe everything you read on truthout.org? They must have hired Dan Rather. Hubby |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: Bobert Date: 14 Jun 06 - 07:30 PM Well, well, well... So Rove now says he forgot talkin' with Matt Cooper??? His first story was that he didn't talk with him... Then "Exhibit A", an email, confirmed that he lied, intentionally or unintentionally... Oh, I forgot... Hmmmmmm? "Okay, seein' as you got therse emails, yeah, looks as if I did talk with Matt Cooper afterall... I forgot about that..." Yeah, he's a big fat liar and the American people have just seen the largest whitewashing since, ahhhhhhh, maybe never.... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: CarolC Date: 14 Jun 06 - 07:31 PM LOL The mid-terms and the next Presidential election are still safe while not in the control of liberals. This statement would be true even if the mid-terms and the next presidential election were in the control of the Democrats |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: GUEST Date: 14 Jun 06 - 08:23 PM Still requesting just one, not two just one, verifiable source that show Rove lied. Feelings don't cut it and neither does 'bobert bullshit'. Ran out of gas on this one, didn't you? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: Arne Date: 14 Jun 06 - 08:46 PM Guest: Art Schultz Ed Schultz. ... the 'left' should try Limbaugh occasionally. I do, but far less often nowadays. My fiance thinks I'm masochistic. But outside of perverse curiosity, why??? Why listen to a flaming gasbag like him, except to remind oneself what the ravages of too much Oxy-Contin can do? Cheers, |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: Bobert Date: 14 Jun 06 - 08:47 PM Karl Rove's own admissions... 1.) "I dind't talk with Matt Cooper" (Enter Exhibit A, an email that shows that Rove did talk with Cooper...) 2.) "Oh, I forgot..." Conclusion: Rove lied... Hey, the amnesia defense doesn't change the ***fact*** that Rove lied... It just changes the "intent" which is the loophole de'jour for liars... "Geeze, musta have slipped my mind, silly me...." Hahahahaha... Rove can name every Republican member of the House of Representatives but somehow can't remember setting up a plot to retaliate agianst Joe Wilson... Hey, Rove lives to hurt folks of the opposition... He get's off on this kinda stuff... To him, it is better than sex... Better than anything... The ultimate dirty trick... "Ahhhhhh, sorry, guess I forgot that conversation wioth Matt Cooper..." Yeah right, this is a proven lie!!! His own admissions prove he lied... So lets get past this and argue "intent".. "Well, I din't mean to lie... I just forgot.." This is what it boils down to... Heck, Bill Clinton was impeached for less... How do you spell "w-h-i-t-e-w-a-s-h??? Geeze... Beam me up, Scotty... The Bushsh*t is gettin' too deep down here... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: GUEST Date: 14 Jun 06 - 08:54 PM Why not Arne? I listen to a flaming gasbag like "Ed" Schultz. And we have yet to hear what Ed does. I think I denote a bit of envy - if for no other reason that Conservatives rule the talk show circuit. Probably another one there but I don't care to get personal. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: Arne Date: 14 Jun 06 - 08:54 PM Guest: And Arne, Many have been asking for months for one source that could prove that Rove lied. Or "made a false statement". A source please, not an opinion or a couple of people who surmise that. You may not believe the source here, but: For one, according to the sources close to the investigation, the likelihood that Rove will be charged with perjury centers on the fact that Rove has testified at least three times that he first discovered that Plame worked for the CIA after her name was printed in a July 2003 newspaper report by conservative columnist Robert Novak. Evidence has since surfaced that shows Rove spoke to Novak about Plame prior to Novak's published report in which Novak outed the undercover CIA officer.But Google "Cooper", "Rove", "Plame" and such. Ask, and you shall receive. Here's a more conventional source. Keep in mind that none of this is first hand source, but Robert Luskin is Rove's attorney, and should know a bit about what Rove has said. Cheers, |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: Arne Date: 14 Jun 06 - 09:00 PM Guest: I think I denote a bit of envy... Oh, really? ;-) Perhaps. You'd be the best judge of that. And I'd say your vocabulary skills perhaps warrant it. Cheers, |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: GUEST Date: 15 Jun 06 - 07:01 AM Remeber, Guest thinks of himself (herself?) as "a conservation" -- unlike "Art Schultz". Of course he (she) denotes envy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: GUEST,Woody Date: 15 Jun 06 - 07:26 AM http://www.truthout.org/fitzgeraldcalling.shtml Karl Rove Indicted on Charges of Perjury, Lying to Investigators By Jason Leopold t r u t h o u t | Report Saturday 13 May 2006 Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald spent more than half a day Friday at the offices of Patton Boggs, the law firm representing Karl Rove. During the course of that meeting, Fitzgerald served attorneys for former Deputy White House Chief of Staff Karl Rove with an indictment charging the embattled White House official with perjury and lying to investigators related to his role in the CIA leak case, and instructed one of the attorneys to tell Rove that he has 24 business hours to get his affairs in order, high level sources with direct knowledge of the meeting said Saturday morning. Robert Luskin, Rove's attorney, did not return a call for comment. Sources said Fitzgerald was in Washington, DC, Friday and met with Luskin for about 15 hours to go over the charges against Rove, which include perjury and lying to investigators about how and when Rove discovered that Valerie Plame Wilson was a covert CIA operative and whether he shared that information with reporters, sources with direct knowledge of the meeting said. It was still unknown Saturday whether Fitzgerald charged Rove with a more serious obstruction of justice charge. Sources close to the case said Friday that it appeared very likely that an obstruction charge against Rove would be included with charges of perjury and lying to investigators. An announcement by Fitzgerald is expected to come this week, sources close to the case said. However, the day and time is unknown. Randall Samborn, a spokesman for the special prosecutor was unavailable for comment. In the past, Samborn said he could not comment on the case. The grand jury hearing evidence in the Plame Wilson case met Friday on other matters while Fitzgerald spent the entire day at Luskin's office. The meeting was a closely guarded secret and seems to have taken place without the knowledge of the media. As TruthOut reported Friday evening, Rove told President Bush and Chief of Staff Joshua Bolten, as well as a few other high level administration officials, that he will be indicted in the CIA leak case and will immediately resign his White House job when the special counsel publicly announces the charges against him, according to sources. Details of Rove's discussions with the president and Bolten have spread through the corridors of the White House, where low-level staffers and senior officials were trying to determine how the indictment would impact an administration that has been mired in a number of high-profile political scandals for nearly a year, said a half-dozen White House aides and two senior officials who work at the Republican National Committee. Speaking on condition of anonymity Friday night, sources confirmed Rove's indictment was imminent. These individuals requested anonymity saying they were not authorized to speak publicly about Rove's situation. A spokesman in the White House press office said they would not comment on "wildly speculative rumors." Rove's announcement to President Bush and Bolten comes more than a month after he alerted the new chief of staff to a meeting his attorney had with Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald in which Fitzgerald told Luskin that his case against Rove would soon be coming to a close and that he was leaning toward charging Rove with perjury, obstruction of justice and lying to investigators, according to sources close to the investigation. A few weeks after he spoke with Fitzgerald, Luskin arranged for Rove to return to the grand jury for a fifth time to testify in hopes of fending off an indictment related to Rove's role in the CIA leak, sources said. That meeting was followed almost immediately by an announcement by newly-appointed White House Chief of Staff Joshua Bolten of changes in the responsibilities of some White House officials, including Rove, who was stripped of his policy duties and would no longer hold the title of deputy White House chief of staff. The White House said Rove would focus on the November elections and his change in status in no way reflected his fifth appearance before the grand jury or the possibility of an indictment. But since Rove testified two weeks ago, the White House has been coordinating a response to what is sure to be the biggest political scandal it has faced thus far: the loss of a key political operative who has been instrumental in shaping White House policy on a wide range of domestic issues. Rove testified that he first found out about Plame Wilson from reading a newspaper report in July 2003 and only after the story was published did he share damaging information about her CIA status with other reporters. However, evidence has surfaced during the course of the two-year-old investigation that shows Rove spoke with at least two reporters about Plame Wilson prior to the publication of the column. The explanation Rove provided to the grand jury - that he was dealing with more urgent White House matters and therefore forgot - has not convinced Fitzgerald that Rove has been entirely truthful in his testimony and resulted in the indictment. Some White House staffers said it's the uncertainty of Rove's status in the leak case that has made it difficult for the administration's domestic policy agenda and that the announcement of an indictment and Rove's subsequent resignation, while serious, would allow the administration to move forward on a wide range of issues. "We need to start fresh and we can't do that with the uncertainty of Karl's case hanging over our heads," said one White House aide. "There's no doubt that it will be front page news if and when (an indictment) happens. But eventually it will become old news quickly. The key issue here is that the president or Mr. Bolten respond to the charges immediately, make a statement and then move on to other important policy issues and keep that as the main focus going forward." Jason Leopold spent two years covering California's electricity crisis as Los Angeles bureau chief of Dow Jones Newswires. Jason has spent the last year cultivating sources close to the CIA leak investigation, and is a regular contributor to t r u t h o u t. He is the author of the new book NEWS JUNKIE. Visit www.newsjunkiebook.com for a preview. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: GUEST Date: 15 Jun 06 - 07:31 AM No, once again I think I meant reservation. lol.. and Remember is spelled as I show it. and Arne, lets' go for the poster vocabulary skills and not the content of the post. I suppose, though, that is all you have left. You and Guest. I find it both amusing and revealing. So, it is okay with me and it also provides an outlet for your apparent frustrations. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: GUEST,Woody Date: 15 Jun 06 - 07:38 AM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Leopold < font size=1> In 2002, Salon.com retracted an article by Leopold which had implicated Bush administration official Thomas White in the Enron scandal after it could not verify that the contents of the article were accurate. Afterwards, Leopold and Salon.com's editor engaged in an online debate over the incident with Leopold sticking to his story and the Salon.com editor accusing Leopold of a separate plagiarism incident. [1] [2] "Off the Record" Prior to writing News Junkie, Mr. Leopold had written a book entitled Off the Record. The book's release was permanently cancelled, however, following reported legal threats from Steven Maviglio, allegedly one of the subjects of the book. [3] In that book, Mr. Leopold planned to reveal many secrets of his life as a journalist such as a prior drug addiction, bouts with mental illness and suicide attempts, breaking journalistic rules, and lying to employers about a criminal conviction. [4] Reports of Karl Rove indictments in 2006 This article documents a current event. Information may change rapidly as the event progresses. On May 13th, 2006, Mr. Leopold reported on the progressive website Truthout.org that Karl Rove had been indicted. [5] The story spread quickly throughout the blogosphere[6]. Rove spokesman Mark Corallo issued a flat denial of Leopold's story, calling it "a complete fabrication". [7] On May 15th, Truthout.org Executive Director Marc Ash defended the story, saying they had more than two sources with corroborating information. [8] On May 18th, Ash provided another update, saying that they had found additional sources as well as three "network level" reporters who offered "off-the-record confirmation and moral support". [9] On May 19th, Ash issued a "partial apology" for "getting too far out in front of the news-cycle". He said "we will be taking the wait-and-see approach for the time being."[10] Currently, Truthout.org is the only news outlet reporting Karl Rove has been indicted [11] and there is still no evidence or confirmation that Rove was indicted on May 12th.[12] [13] On May 26th, Ash reaffirmed that several independent sources existed to back up Leopold's story, and added that "We know that there were two network news crews outside of the building in Washington, DC that houses the offices of Patton Boggs, the law firm that represents Karl Rove. We know that the 4th floor of that building (where the Patton Boggs offices are located) was locked down all day Friday and into Saturday night. We know that we have not received a request for a retraction from anyone. And we know that White House spokesman Tony Snow now refuses to discuss Karl Rove - at all." Ash speculated: "Rove may be turning state's evidence. We suspect that the scope of Fitzgerald's investigation may have broadened - clearly to Cheney - and according to one 'off the record source' to individuals and events not directly related to the outing of CIA operative Valerie Plame. We believe that the indictment which does exist against Karl Rove is sealed. Finally, we believe that there is currently a great deal of activity in the Plame investigation."[14] On June 3, 2006, Ash released another follow-up on the story, stating that "Right now we have only general indicators as to why an announcement might not be made when an indictment has been returned. And even though these indicators do exist, we need to more clearly understand exactly what is happening in this case before we can report on them." [15] On June 12, Leopold wrote claiming that the indictment of Rove was in federal case number 06 cr 128, tantalizingly titled "Sealed vs. Sealed." Leopold acknowledges that the grand jury that handed down this sealed decision also meet to discuss other cases, but contends that "legal experts watching the Plame-Wilson investigation have been paying particularly close attention to Sealed vs. Sealed since the Karl Rove indictment story was published. The legal scholars have said that a federal prosecutor can keep an indictment under seal for weeks or months - something that is commonplace in high-profile criminal cases - especially if an investigation, such as the CIA leak probe, is ongoing."[16] On June 13, Robert Luskin, Rove's lawyer, released a statement that said Fitzgerald "has formally advised us that he does not anticipate seeking charges [against Rove]...[and] we believe that the Special Counsel's decision should put an end to the baseless speculation about Mr. Rove's conduct." [17] [18] Nevertheless, Ash continued to stand by Leopold's story and questioned the accuracy of Luskin's statement, saying "the information he is providing is directly contradicted by the information we have." [19] |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: GUEST Date: 15 Jun 06 - 07:45 AM http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2006/06/12/rove2/index.html In an editor's note accompanying Jason Leopold's latest story on Karl Rove today, Truthout executive director Marc Ash tried to "clearly separate what we know from what we believe." Among the "things" Ash said "we know for certain" is a claim that we've already shown to be wrong: Ash said "Sealed v. Sealed," the title of the criminal case Truthout "believes" to be "directly related" to the Valerie Plame investigation, is "unusual," and that "typically, a sealed federal indictment will be titled, 'U.S. v. Sealed.'" In fact, as we reported earlier today, all sealed criminal cases in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia go by the title "Sealed v. Sealed," and there have been at least 31 such cases filed so far this year. What about some of the other things Ash said he knows for certain? We tried -- not very successfully -- to learn more about one of them today. Ash said in his editor's note that he knows for certain that "the federal indictment" -- and we'll assume for now that Case No. 1-06-cr-128 actually involves an indictment -- "was returned by the same grand jury that has been hearing matters related to the Fitzgerald/Plame investigation." We sent Ash an e-mail this morning asking him to explain the basis for that claim. "Good question," he responded. "Let me [get] that 'exact' answer and I'll get back to you." After a few hours passed, we followed up with a more detailed version of the same question: "In your note, you say you 'know for certain" that 1-06-cr-128 was 'returned by the same grand jury that has been hearing matters related to the Fitzgerald/Plame investigation.' But you also say in your note that claims designated as 'what we know' are based on 'official records and official statements.' What 'official record or statement' supports the claim that 1-06-cr-128 represents an 'indictment returned by the same grand jury that has been hearing matters related to the Fitzgerald/Plame investigation'?" Ash's response to that question: "Yes, I see your point on ... confirming the information about which grand jury returned 1-06-cr-128. I am contacting those who worked on that and WILL get back to you." A little later, we asked Ash and Leopold whether Truthout's focus on 1-06-cr-128 might be based on some confusion about a similarly numbered matter (1-06-mc-128) that involves Time's challenge to a subpoena in the Scooter Libby case. Leopold said, "No." Ash said, "Not exactly. This information was provided to us by someone who knows these issues -- first-hand. But before I try to explain to you what they explained to me, I want a detailed clarification. Our interest in 1-06-cr-128 is based on a multitude of factors." We tried one last time to get an answer late today. Leopold responded by saying: "Marc Ash handles all media inquiries. " Ash, in turn, said he is "frankly reluctant to get into [a] parsing contest" and that Truthout is "pretty comfortable with what we've published." "We're going to let her ride," Ash said. "Thanks for following up." -- Tim Grieve |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: GUEST,TIA Date: 21 Aug 06 - 01:04 PM Seems we may still be waiting to find out. A sealed indictment is still out there, and Patrick Fitzgerald is still on the case. Details. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: GUEST,Karl Rove Date: 22 Aug 06 - 07:05 AM Karl Rove IS a big fat liar. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: GUEST,Karl Rove Date: 22 Aug 06 - 07:06 AM Sorry, I mis-typed my last posting. Karl Rove IS NOT a big fat liar. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: Don Firth Date: 22 Aug 06 - 04:19 PM I believe attorneys refer to Ken Lay's "I didn't know what was going on," and Karl Rove's "I don't remember," as "The 'I'm an Idiot' Defense." Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: Greg F. Date: 22 Aug 06 - 06:16 PM Jaysus, Rove lies for a living! That's what the BuShites PAY him to do! He's lied Baby Bush into the White House. He was the moving force behind the Swift Boat Liars, he's mobilized the same filth merchants against Murtha & on & on & on. No surprises here. Its a "man bites dog" situation: it might be news if Rove DIDN'T lie for once. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: TIA Date: 21 Feb 07 - 04:01 PM Don't know about Rove, but it seems that Cheney might be... " During closing arguments Tuesday in the obstruction of justice and perjury trial of former vice presidential staffer, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, Fitzgerald told jurors that "there is a cloud over the vice president. ... a cloud over the White House over what happened," according to a copy of the transcript of Fitzgerald's statements. "We didn't put that cloud there," Fitzgerald said. "That cloud's there because the defendant obstructed justice. That cloud is something you just can't pretend isn't there." Moreover, Fitzgerald told jurors that Libby, Cheney's former chief of staff, discussed aspects of the investigation with the vice president only when he was told by investigators not to talk about the probe, according to the transcript. Libby is "not supposed to be talking to other people," Fitzgerald said. But "the only person [Libby] told is the vice president. Think about that." The suggestion by Fitzgerald that Cheney was complicit in the unmasking of Valerie Plame Wilson's undercover CIA status led to immediate speculation by pundits that the special prosecutor is widening his probe and may have Cheney in his crosshairs." source |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar??? From: Liz the Squeak Date: 22 Feb 07 - 04:41 AM Answer.. probably but I don't care, I got 300!!! LTS |
