BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???

Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 04:42 AM

Actually it was 400... even better!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: TIA
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 08:57 AM

On the stat sheet, do I get credit for the assist?

Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 09:05 PM

Standard #1: Libby says the can't remember = unaccaptable.

Standard #2: Russert says he can't remember = acceptable.

Russert's testimony:

Wells: Do you remember saying to Katie Couric about the indictment, "It's huge… first time in 130 years"?

Tim Russert: No, I don't question that I said it, but I just don't remember.

W: Do you have a bad memory?

T: No.

W: You don't remember going on TV to discuss a historic indictment, where you were personally involved?

T: I do television a lot, a lot of stories and interviews.

Fitzgerald: Which is bigger news, possible indictment or actual indictment?

T: Actual indictment.

F: What do you remember personally from October 28, 2005?

T: Press conference was a network interrupt, which was significant — and then hearing my name, which was jolting. And then Brian Williams talking me about the case and asking me to explain my role, which I did. First time in my life I'd heard my name spoken by a prosecutor.

Wells: Do you recall appearing on the Imus show the morning of the 28th?

T: (meekly) No.

W: Do you recall whether the Today show reported that Libby would be [indicted]?

T: I don't.

W: Do you remember being on the Today show yourself and discussing possible charges against Libby?

T: I don't.

W: Do you deny it?

T: I don't deny it, I just don't deny it.

W: Remember the phrase "first time in a hundred years"?

T: No.

W: You don't remember talking about this on Today show?

T: I appear on Today show several times a week.

W: How many times do you appear on the Today show to discuss possible indictment of chief of staff of VP, in a case where you were involved — first time in your life, right?

T: Yes.

W: So you don't recall

T: No. I do recall watching (Fitzgerald) news conference and discussing it with Brian Williams. (is shown Today show transcript) I don't recall this, sorry.

W: Given your personal involvement… you have no recollection of that day?

T: No, I said I remember news conf and going on air with Brian Williams

W: Don't recall Today show?

T: No.

W: Don't recall Imus show?

T: No.

W: Do you remember saying to Katie Couric about the indictment, "It's huge… first time in 130 years"?

T: No, I don't question that I said it, but I just don't remember.

W: Do you have a bad memory?

T: No.

W: You don't remember going on TV to discuss a historic indictment, where you were personally involved?

T: I do television a lot, a lot of stories and interviews.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 09:17 PM

The problem is that Tim Russert isn't paid by tax dollars to sit in private sessions to discuss ways yo discredit foes of the administration's policies...

... and that's a rather *****BIG***** difference...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 09:25 PM

Oh, an' Tim Russert was a big-time Bush cheerleader during the 2000 election and even after Greg Palist had come up with the proof that Bush had indeeed stolen the election never ***bothered*** to say anything about it on the air... It wasn't until the public opinion polls reached 60% saying the Iraq war was not worth fighting that Russert, the ever political journalist, stepped back from Bush...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 02:32 PM

So it is OK if a reporter can't remember what he told a government official but it is not OK for a government official to not remember what he told a reporter?

According to TIA: "I must point out *again* that without a control group, the polling data are meaningless."

Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 02:41 PM

You're confused Dickey. I know the word "poll" has come up in this thread and the other, but we're not talking about the same thing, so your out-of-context quoting of me is meaningless here.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 03:24 PM

context:

"GUEST,TIA - PM
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 02:46 PM

"No Dickey. I'm not saying I don't trust the polls. You are saying that the poll numbers are proof of something else, and I am saying you cannot make that leap without other evidence."

Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 03:41 PM

Ah, and then BB jumped in. Now we have a smidgeon of context. But still, this relates to this thread how?

Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 06:36 PM

Ahhhh, there's abig difference between a two hour meeting exclusively on discreditin' Joe Wilson and a somewhat casual conversation over lunch in which many topics were discusssed...

Libby has lied thru his teeth on this one... Too bad that he has been chosen as the scapegoat to protect the real crooks: Cheney and Rove...

Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 24 Feb 07 - 12:07 AM

What is the difference Bobert? Where and when was this two hour meeting held exclusively on descrediting Joe lawsuit Wilson?

I wish TIA could tell us which polls are meaningless and which are not.

TIA: It is now your obligation to pop up whenever someone cites a poll and tell us wether it is meaningless or not.

Otherwise I will have to assume they are all meaningless now that you are casting doubt on them.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: dianavan
Date: 24 Feb 07 - 05:01 AM

Dickey was the first one to mention a poll on this thread. What poll are you talking about, Dickey?

Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Feb 07 - 09:39 AM

Dickey,

Washington Post,Feb 23, 2007, Page A-3, "A Nonpartisan Reputation at Stake" by Carol D. Leonnig

"The trial has given Fitgerald cahnces to show his well-known mastery of facts and his expertise at cross examining.

When Libby's former deputy, John Hanna, testified for the defense on the overqwhelming nature of Libby's job, Hanna said that at the time, Libby was monitoring al-Qaeda plots, the Iraq war and other national security threats.

Hannah, who said he was lucky to get a few minutes to talk to Libby, was supposed to help butress Libby's argument that ha had more important things to remember when he spoke to investigators than conversations with reporters.

With two quick questions, Fitzgerald drew Hanna to the week of July 6, 2003, when, the jurors had been told, Libby met for two hours with Times reporter Judith Miller to complain about Wilson.

   "And so, if you look at what was going on... if he gave    someone an hour or two during that week, it was something that Mr. Libby thought would be important, correct?" [Fitzgerald]

Hannah paused, but had to agree: "With regard to me, yes."

********************************************************************

So, Dickey... Realy hate to interupt yer little Bushite cut 'n paste but there are some inconvient facts here, regardless of the verdict in this case... Think O.J. Simpson here... Crooks don't always get nailed...

Speaklin' on crooks that don't get nailed... Dick Cheney is a crook of the highest order with Karl "Crook" right behind him and with Libby set up to take the fall (or not, think O.J., Part B) there is a good chance that the corrupt Justice Department will not so much as make an attempt tp bring these two repulsive individuals to justice...

And just a side bar pop quiz question:

How much did the government spend to investigate Bill Clinton during his presidency??? And ho much has the government spent in investigating the Bush admininsrations efforts to discredit Joe Wilson???

Give up???






























Clinton $71M

Snitch-gate $1.4M

Hmmmmmmmmm???

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 24 Feb 07 - 01:10 PM

Dickey,

You are an idiot. I never said polls are meaningless. I said that YOU cannot interpret a poll a particular way without a further key piece of evidence.

You say the polls only went up a little, therefore the propaganda campaign doesn't exist.

I take may dog out to pee every morning, then the sun comes up. So, I say my dog peeing makes the sun come up.

Should make perfect sense to you Dickey.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Feb 07 - 04:50 PM

Well, while most polls are purdy much meaningless, others are fairly accurate... It all depends on the wording, meathodology and the motives of the pollster/s... I don't trust any poll that is released by a party that has soemthing to gain from the results of the poll... This, of course, includes all politicans and political parties and many so-called objective organizations which have their own axes to grind...

Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 02:44 AM

"when, the jurors had been told, Libby met for two hours with Times reporter Judith Miller to complain about Wilson."

Told by Whom?

And what Bushite cut and paste was that? Is everybody that disagrees with Bobert a Bushite?

According to Bobert when "It wasn't until the public opinion polls reached 60% saying the Iraq war was not worth fighting that Russert, the ever political journalist, stepped back from Bush"

So could TIA say with certainty tah the polls caused Russert to flip flop? Were those polls accurate? Was Bobert an idiot for citing polls?

Were the polls cited by Bobert "released by a party that has soemthing to gain from the results of the poll"?

Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 03:01 AM

Does the fact that less people believed that Saddam Hussein was involved with 9/11 during the alleged propaganda campaign than before the alleged campaign mean that the campaign, if there was a campaign, support the assertion that it was brilliant and highly successfull?

It was from Bobert's source of the truth, the Washington Post.
        
Washington Post Poll:
Saddam Hussein and the Sept. 11 Attacks

Saturday, September 6, 2003

The latest Washington Post poll is based on telephone interviews with 1,003 randomly selected adults nationwide, and was conducted Aug. 7-11, 2003. The margin of sampling error for overall results is plus or minus 3 percentage points. Sampling error is only one of many potential sources of error in this or any other public opinion poll. Interviewing was conducted by TNS Intersearch of Horsham, Pa.

*= less than 0.5 percent

How likely is it that Saddam Hussein (INSERT ITEM) ? Would you say that it is very likely, somewhat likely, not very likely, or not at all likely?

                                  --------Likely------- -------Not Likely------   No
                                  NET   Very   Somewhat NET   Not very   At all opin.
a. was personally involved in
   the September 11 terrorist
   attacks                         69    32       37      28      15       12      3
b. has provided assistance to
   Osama bin Laden and his
   terrorist network               82    51       31      14       8         6      4
c. was trying to develop weapons
   of mass destruction             84    62       22      14       9         5      3
d. had already developed weapons
   of mass destruction             78    51       27      19      12         7      3

a. was personally involved in the September 11 terrorist attacks

               --------Likely------- -------Not Likely------   No
               NET   Very   Somewhat NET   Not very   At all opin.
8/11/03         69    32       37      28      15       12      3
2/6/03*         72    34       38      25      16         9      3
10/24/02       71    34       37      25      16         9      4
9/13/01#       78    34       44      12       9         3      9

* 2/6/03 and previous - Time/CNN. "…personally involved in the terrorist attacks
(on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon) on September 11th (2001) -- very likely,
somewhat likely…"
# "How likely is it that Saddam Hussein is personally involved in Tuesday's terrorist
attacks..."
b,c,d. No trend.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 09:15 AM

Well, Dickey, if you had read, rather than skimmed my post that quioted the Wsahigton Post article you wouldn't have to ask brought up the two hour meeting but for review:

Fitzgerald asked the question which was based on information that had been provided to him druing the investigative stage... Had it been a meeting that never occured than Libby's defense team would most certainly have objected and the judge most certainly would have sustained the defenses objection...

The polls I am referring to are really a combination of several non-partisan polling organizations that I pay some attention to including the New York Times, the Washington Post and even the network polls... While these organizations do represent the ruling class on the whole, they are at the very least somewhat in the ball part evn if they tend to scew toward the folks in power so when I see them admitting that 60% of the American people thought that the Iraq invasion was a mistake then in my mind I factor in the "corporate/establishment variable" which means that the number is probably somewhat higher... Learned that in "Statistics 201" which dealt alot with polls...

Now to your 2003 poll??? Well, yeah, at the time the American people were being bombarded with super-patriotism and lies so it's no wonder they held the opinions that they held... Even a year later after the Saddam/al-Qaeda connection had been debunked and the nuke lie had been debunked there were still a lot of people who still believed both of those lies...

Why is that??? Well, Hitler put it very well when he noted that people will believe "the big lie" and so the million$ that went into proaganda were well spent...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 02:48 PM

Yes Bobert, People will believe the big lie if it comes from the Washington Post or the New York Times:

The Washington Post Jan. 29, 2001, "Of all the booby traps left behind by the Clinton administration, none is more dangerous or more urgent than the situation in Iraq. Over the last year, Mr. Clinton and his team quietly avoided dealing with, or calling attention to, the almost complete unraveling of a decade's efforts to isolate the regime of Saddam Hussein and prevent it from rebuilding its weapons of mass destruction. That leaves President Bush to confront a dismaying panorama in the Persian Gulf," including "intelligence photos that show the reconstruction of factories long suspected of producing chemical and biological weapons."

The Source of the Trouble

"Pulitzer Prize winner Judith Miller’s series of exclusives about weapons of mass destruction in Iraqâ€"courtesy of the now-notorious Ahmad Chalabiâ€"helped the New York Times keep up with the competition and the Bush administration bolster the case for war. How the very same talents that caused her to get the story also caused her to get it wrong."

Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 05:51 PM

Bobert:

"Now to your 2003 poll???" It was a Washington post poll. How about the 2001 poll compared to the 2002 poll?

And is the "nuke lie" you are referencing the one from The Guardian in 2000:

"SADDAM HUSSEIN has ordered his scientists to resume work on a programme aimed at making a nuclear bomb, a defector warned yesterday.

The Iraqi dictator, whose efforts to make atomic weapons were thwarted by United Nations inspectors after the Gulf war in 1991, revived the plans two years ago, the defector said.

Scientists who had previously worked on the weapons programme were made to return to their duties in August 1998, four months before Saddam expelled the inspectors. "

Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 08:15 PM

Well, Dickey, it was ***you***, not me who chose to use a four year old poll to try to defend a current day issue... Heck, if that is your M.O., you could justify slavery if you dug back far 'nuff...

And, just to show that you perghaps are incabable of discussing ***current*** events you drag up some ancient paragraph, which most likely came from the editorial page, to try to prove a point, whatyever yoar particular point is, that is...

Can you bring yourself to the here and now, or at least a little closer than scrounging up 6 and 7 year old obscure editorials??? 'Er is this too much to ask??? BTW, whatever Bushite blog that you are usin' sucks... There are much better ones, I'm sure, than this one that gives you editorials that were printed over a half a decade ago to argue pionts with...

...but I do always enjoy you Bushites bringin' up Bill Clinton as the root of all Bush's problems... Always good fir a chuckle... Not that I liked Clinton, mind you, but it a sorry stae of affairs in the Bushite circle when here yer guy has been in the white house for over half a decade an' all his screw=ups are Clinton's fault???

Hahahaha...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 06:34 PM

Well, I just heard a spokesman for the Scotter Libby trial say that the jury was concerned that Libby was being made a scpaegoat for both Rove and Cheney...

Hmmmmmm???

Yeah, nither will be brought to justice but, like O.J. Simpson, thet will both me marked men until the day they die...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 10:20 PM

Ha Ha Ha, Dickey always takes the absurd position a mile to the right of Pat Buchannon just to get your goat.

Will prison make Libby flip?

He sure could if put in general prison population right off rt. 1 in Burtonsville.
If however he gets the brig at Camp David he could do 2 years in a 4 room suite with a private chef for his meals.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Amos
Date: 19 May 08 - 12:48 PM

(Huffington Post, May 15 2008):

"Just off the House floor today, the Crypt overheard House Judiciary Committee Chairman John Conyers tell two other people: "We're closing in on Rove. Someone's got to kick his ass."

Asked a few minutes later for a more official explanation, Conyers told us that Rove has a week to appear before his committee. If he doesn't, said Conyers, "We'll do what any self-respecting committee would do. We'd hold him in contempt. Either that or go and have him arrested."

"


A

Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Bobert
Date: 19 May 08 - 12:57 PM

Hmmmmmm.... Better move over Scooter... Karl's movin' in....

Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Sawzaw
Date: 27 Jun 10 - 10:01 AM

What happened to your prediction Bobert?

Were you WRONG again?

But I'm gonna go on record of predictin' another 9-11 event in just over a year becuase the Repubs will be in desperate need for one and if they are goina stand any chance of holding the White House, after this dismal 8 years of theivery and lies, they can't do it without another 9/11... Keep in mind that the week before 9/11 Bush had the lowest approval rating of any president since such polls have been taken....

So that's my prediction... Sad... but I'm sticken by it...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Jun 10 - 08:35 PM

Call yer Betty Ford counselor, Sawz...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Sawzaw
Date: 29 Sep 12 - 08:58 AM

Still waiting for an explanation for your WRONG prediction Bobster.

First of all, I am very rarely wrong!!! No brag, just pure fact!!!

Ever notice how Bobert brags about not bragging?

Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Sep 12 - 09:30 AM

Blow Me.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 29 Sep 12 - 09:57 AM

So what if this particular prediction did not come true? It would not even diminish his statement about being rarely wrong, much.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Stringsinger
Date: 29 Sep 12 - 10:36 AM

No one is going to prosecute Karl. He is above the law. He also is responsible
for incarcerating Alabama Governor as well.

He is a powerful operative who controls the GOP.

Anything he says should be totally mistrusted.