Ewan MacColl's trousers

Subject: Ewan MacColl's trousers
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 01:41 PM

Although from his life's that MacColl saw himself as a man of the left with total commitment to the working class, his trousers had a dubious middle class look about them.

How come so many people did not recognise them as the clue to his class treachery? Can we really hear those Radio Ballads again knowing he was in those trousers when he putting together those great tales of working class struggle, not from a working position, from the comfort of those trousers?

Subject: RE: Ewan McColl's trousers
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 01:44 PM

I was more concerned about his underwear...

Subject: RE: Ewan McColl's trousers
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 01:49 PM

There is a rumor that he put them on by jumping up and putting BOTH legs in simultaneously, rather than one leg at a time like 'regular' folk!

Subject: RE: Ewan McColl's trousers
From: Emma B
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 01:54 PM

Wot! - he didnae wear a kilt?

Subject: RE: Ewan McColl's trousers
From: Scrump
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 01:55 PM

I've gone right off 'im now you've told me that ;-)

Subject: RE: Ewan McColl's trousers
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 01:56 PM

Look this is serious - I was hopping for a bit of inspired Marxist analysis, not just a poke about in his underwear or should that be underware?

Subject: RE: Ewan McColl's trousers
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 01:58 PM

and when they were up they were up

and when they were down they were down

and when they were only half way up he sang:-

"little what ye wha's comin'" and was arrested.

Scandalous I say -

Anyway - moving on (song)

Subject: RE: Ewan McColl's trousers
From: Scoville
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 02:04 PM

My dad has lots of suspiciously middle-class clothing, nearly all of which he inherited from the dead husbands of my mother's friends, which would make a good enough story for any folksinger.

Subject: RE: Ewan McColl's trousers
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 02:10 PM

Scoville, your story has the smell of LeCarre, but I want Ewan nailed for his henious trouser class treachory, even though I cannot spell most of those words!

sel ni notlrohc

Subject: RE: Ewan McColl's trousers
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 02:17 PM

I may have seen him wearing a tie once (or was that Bert Lloyd?). Oh yes, and he had a beard - don't forget that!

Subject: RE: Ewan McColl's trousers
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 02:19 PM

I remember him in a flowered tie, St George's Hall Liverpool, around 1968. Was that class treachory or his hippy phase?

Subject: RE: Ewan McColl's trousers
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 04:42 PM

do you mean that you remember him
when you wear a flowered tie?
or that you wear a flowered tie
to remember him by?

Subject: RE: Ewan McColl's trousers
From: Les from Hull
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 04:53 PM

It's a good job he didn't always keep 'em on. The best thing he ever did in his (much-discussed!) life, IMO, was to help produce Kirsty!

Subject: RE: Ewan McColl's trousers
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 05:09 PM

I thought Steve Lillywhite produced Kirsty MacColl

I hope he kept his trousers on

Subject: RE: Ewan McColl's trousers
From: Les from Hull
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 05:10 PM

Any road up, how come they aren't 'troosers'.

I'll get me coat...

Subject: RE: Ewan McColl's trousers
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 05:15 PM

No No - it's a fair point.

I think we deserve an answer

Subject: RE: Ewan McColl's trousers
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 05:45 PM

Didn't Ewan MacColl play Wallace in the Wallace and Gromit Animation

Oh no ... hold on ... the wrong trousers ...

... carry on ...

Subject: RE: Ewan McColl's trousers
From: Charley Noble
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 05:50 PM

Wide cord as I recall and rather dark in color/colour.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Ewan McColl's trousers
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 03:24 AM

Typical of this website. I ask a perfectly serious question about the relationship between the Artist, his music and his relationship to societal change and you all go on about fashion!

Subject: RE: Ewan McColl's trousers
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 03:39 AM

That question then opens up a whole new raft of questions of the 'should you sing the Padstow Mayday song at any other time of the year or in any other town?' variety.

Should you only be allowed to sing songs from your background/tradition/area whilst wearing the appropriate clothing?

Personal opinion is that if someone insists you can only sing songs from your own personal background, but then sings a song about a job they never had, under a name they weren't born with, in a town they don't come from, in clothes they never worked in.... well, hypocrite isn't a strong enough word.

If clothing were part of the 'deal', then many people would have to sing naked and that is surely going to affect audience figures.....

LTS

Subject: RE: Ewan McColl's trousers
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 04:10 AM

Go on Liz, you have opened up an interesting idea with the cloths thing

Subject: RE: Ewan McColl's trousers
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 08:38 AM

Ordinary man by frank waterson is a great song as it describes the troubles of a particular era. It is written from the perspective of a factory worker who loses his job along side all his workmates when the factory they work in closes down. It expresses the frustration of the working class very coherently and with feeling.

Christy Moores version is the only one I've ever heard, apart from my own and my brothers.

None of us has ever experienced the fate of the CHARACTER in the STORY that the song tells.

And that's the point. It's a story told in the first person. So what!

Does that mean I'm not allowed to tell it?

It is a good story, well set to music and inspires thought and feeling in it's audience.

To call me or anyone else who learns and sings the song a hypocrite for performing it is insane rubbish.

If it wasn't for us, a good song would go unheard, a good point would go unmade and a good story would go untold.

There is a load of nonsense being talked these days on the subject of "keeping it real", with the result that noone seems to have anything interesting to say anymore.

If we as mudcatters were that "real" in our everyday dealings we would be required to write every song about the tap tap tapping of the bloody keys and the great wisdom to be found in cyber world - that and the shops and our job.

The monotony is driving me insane already.

Great artists: writers, painters, performers etc have "imagination" and credit their audience with having it too.

Come on - drop the fashionable attitude and engage yourself honestly - that's what I call "real".

Subject: RE: Ewan McColl's trousers
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 08:40 AM

My personal background by the way is Irish, so though I have never been driven west by cromwell myself, I am grown from that stuff.

Subject: RE: Ewan McColl's trousers
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 08:51 AM

I'm with you lox, the argument has never been better stated around here.

Subject: RE: Ewan McColl's trousers
From: GUEST,musicman
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 09:29 AM

I thought he wore a kilt!

Subject: RE: Ewan McColl's trousers
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 09:49 AM

Lox - read again... I didn't say that anyone who sings a song not from their background or experience was a hypocrite.

I said that in my personal opinion "if someone insists you can only sing songs from your own personal background, but then sings a song about a job they never had, under a name they weren't born with, in a town they don't come from"... THEY would be the hypocrite.    I have never been so arrogant as to demand that only people who come from Nottingham are allowed to dance the Nottingham Swing, neither do I insist that Linden Lea is only ever sung in Dorset (or strictly speaking, NOT in Dorset as it's a song about homesickness for a particular place), in dialect and wearing a frock coat, parson's gaiters and a wide brimmed curate's hat.

Although to be honest... that would improve some performances a lot.. not everyone can wear gaiters!

LTS

Subject: RE: Ewan McColl's trousers
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 12:09 PM

not everyone can wear gaiters!

What king of descrimination is this Liz. But still I am glad you are bringing us back from the wayward drift of this thread.

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl's trousers
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 04:14 PM

Sorry liz,

I did actually notice that point as I read your post and mine back - it's a fair cop.

I will however be a bit naughty, not just for arguments sake but out of further curiosity to explore the issue open the can of worms that is ... (dare I say it) ...

What does he mean by personal background?

Personal experience? ... or could it mean ones own cultural background - in which case someone with a muddled personal cultural history, i.e. with multiple roots in various different backgrounds (like Scotland, salford, a good school and "proper" education etc) might end up performing a hotch potch of styles, maybe even in a hotch potch of accents (see "Ewan MacColl's Accent" in music threads)

My life was enriched when my brother bought me a Ewan MacColl cassette for Christmas, and I have yet to be affected in a detrimental way by any of his recordings.

I am disappointed though to hear that he wore wide cord trousers though. I've never liked them and I had hoped that he owned a large wardrobe of khaki bush shorts. Now I must sadly accept that even if he did he probably only wore them in private or on holiday.

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl's trousers
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 06:08 PM

I've been upset about Ewan MacColl's trousers for as long as I can remember. I'm glad someone saw fit to post about it at last. ;-)

Subject: RE: Ewan McColl's trousers
From: Bert
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 07:08 PM

Wot no knee irons?

Subject: RE: Ewan McColl's trousers
From: gnu
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 07:23 PM

Slacker!

Subject: RE: Ewan McColl's trousers
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 07:41 PM

Takes a good set of calves to wear proper gaiters... any old leg can have an orange bailer twine tied at the knee, but clerical gaiters are an art form (think puttees).

LTS

Subject: RE: Ewan McColl's trousers
From: GUEST,Colonel Bloodknock
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 10:08 PM

You sad wankers, are your lives so shallow that you talk about someone else's trousers.

For fucks sake get a life.

Subject: RE: Ewan McColl's trousers
From: Charley Noble
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 10:26 PM

Colonel-

Well, if you take the trouble to read the entire thread rather than just the thread title, you just might learn something. But then maybe you did and you didn't learn a thing.

Now Jon Campbell composed an entire song about underwater, underwire, underwear. That's really one amazing song.

With regard to the culture I was raised in, it's pretty much a muddle. Mother's father was from Lithiuania, her mother was from California. Father's father was from Romania and his mother was from Hungary. And I was raised in Maine. Whatever! I do the best I can.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Ewan McColl's trousers
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 11:50 PM

Yes, Colonel Bloodlock, you humorless old bastard, our lives ARE that shallow. We have lives so shallow, in fact, that a gnat wouldn't get his knees wet wading through them. And we're proud of it, and not about to change to please you, so just sod off now like a good chap, will you?

Subject: RE: Ewan McColl's trousers
From: GUEST,Col. Bloodnocks
Date: 01 Oct 06 - 03:04 AM

Don't talk to me until you can spell or at least copy my name correctly little horse.

Subject: RE: Ewan McColl's trousers
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 01 Oct 06 - 03:05 AM

Bloodknock - how could that ever be funny?

Subject: RE: Ewan McColl's trousers
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 01 Oct 06 - 03:16 AM

For fecks sake Dennis calm down, it's what we here call FUN.

eric

Subject: RE: Ewan McColl's trousers
From: Les from Hull
Date: 01 Oct 06 - 07:53 AM

I don't think it's Dennis, Eric. He only reached the rank of Major and spelt his name differently to the two different spellings that the Colonel uses. Besides, Dennis was always frightfully interested in trousers.

Subject: RE: Ewan McColl's trousers
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 01 Oct 06 - 01:23 PM

Ah, but it was a female gorilla, there's nothing funny about the Major!

LTS

Subject: RE: Ewan McColl's trousers
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Oct 06 - 02:09 PM

I have to tell you, Colonel Bloodwurst, that your choleric character is the least valuable of your negligible assets. Furthermore, your side whiskers are extremely unattractive. I suggest getting a clean shave at the earliest opportunity.

Subject: RE: Ewan McColl's trousers
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 01 Oct 06 - 02:24 PM

He's only jealous because noones interested in his trousers - least of all what's in them.

You know who wears the trousers in his life ... hmmm ...

... any speculation? a new thread perhaps -

"colonel bloodclots trousers"

(apologies to any easily offended jamaicans in the house)

Perhaps if he washed the blood out he might have more luck ...

Probably a bladder infection

Subject: RE: Ewan McColl's trousers
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 01 Oct 06 - 10:25 PM

A Blood Clot is a fine drink! Vodka, tomato juice and Jello...

Art

Subject: RE: Ewan McColl's trousers
From: GUEST,Bruce Baillie
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 01:19 AM

... Yes Ewan McColl did wear a kilt, probably a middle class kilt, it's a little known fact that one of the earliest songs he wrote was the famous 'Donald where's yer Troosers?'
Printed below is the verse that Andy Stewart never sang on the White Heather Club...

'On a walking holiday in Wales,
the lassies all gave shouts and wails,
when I walk through the heather well I leave three trails
when I havenae on ma troosers!'

Let the wind blow high etc...

Subject: RE: Ewan McColl's trousers
From: ossonflags
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 04:25 AM

Surely it should be "Breeks" Les? as in "long may your breeks reek"

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl's trousers
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 03:47 PM

at least he spared us the kilt

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl's trousers
From: GUEST,Geordie
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 06:22 AM

Johnny Handle used to wear a pit helmet when singing in the Troubadour.

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl's trousers
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 06:39 AM

" ... if someone insists you can only sing songs from your own personal background, ..."

Here we go again! He didn't insist on any such thing! The Singers' Club (of which EM was a founder member), in London, at a particular time, had a POLICY which encouraged participating singers to sing songs from their own backgrounds. This was because, at the time, many British singers were singing mainly American songs and EM and the club wished to encourage singers to re-discover their own folk musical heritages. Seems to be perfectly reasonable to me. But if it doesn't seem reasonable to you it was years ago and applied to one club only - for God's sake, get over it!!!

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl's trousers
From: treewind
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 07:00 AM

"Johnny Handle used to wear a pit helmet when singing in the Troubadour"

I thought Troubadour audiences were better behaved than that.

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl's trousers
From: Vic Smith
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 07:14 AM

We heard on the recent radio programme that Ewan MacColl told the members of the Critics Group one week to go away and write a song about Vietnam "by next week". What the programme did not add was that in order for the delivery of the song to be considered authentic they would have to wear the proper Viet Cong black pyjama trousers and that Ewan was prepared to supply these at a reasonable rate.
The programme also does not mention that Tom Paxton was a member of the Critics group at the time and he was one person who took up Ewan's suggestion. He even remembered MacColl's reference to the appropriate trousers for in one verse, he wrote:-

Every night the local gentry
Slip out past the sleeping sentry
They go to join the old V C
In their nightly little dramas
They put on their black pajamas
And come lobbing mortar shells at me.

Tom Paxton was living in Penge at the time, though funnily enough, he never joined The Rolling Stones.

I can vouch that every word in this posting is 100% true because I read all the facts on Mudcat.

As a bit of reflected glory, I can state honestly that for over 20 years I have been playing the same band as a bassist who once gained 3rd place on the Worst Trousers section of the Folk Roots Readers' Poll