F.J. Child - entire work online!!!

Subject: F.J. Child - entire work online!!!
From: GUEST,Ian Pittaway
Date: 07 Oct 06 - 07:49 AM

F.J. Child's seminal work, English and Scottish Popular Ballads, is now on the web in its entirety! Go to http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/eng/child/index.htm and you'll find links to all 8 volumes, which you can view in facsimile. The songs listed below this on the same page are in plain text. Many thanks to Cathy Lynn Preston at the University of Colorado for this wonderful work.

Subject: RE: F.J. Child - entire work online!!!
From: Cordwangler
Date: 07 Oct 06 - 08:31 AM

Thanks for this link Ian, you're a star.

Subject: RE: F.J. Child - entire work online!!!
From: Dave Ruch
Date: 07 Oct 06 - 09:13 AM

This is fantastic! Thanks for posting.

Subject: RE: F.J. Child - entire work online!!!
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 07 Oct 06 - 11:28 AM

Is anyone planning to do Bronson?

Subject: RE: F.J. Child - entire work online!!!
From: Zhenya
Date: 07 Oct 06 - 11:37 AM

Wonderful! Just added this to my Favorites list.

Subject: RE: F.J. Child - entire work online!!!
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 07 Oct 06 - 11:52 AM

Another source based on the Colorado concordance has been available for some years at Hawaii: Child Ballads - Hawaii.

There is also The Child Ballads Project, an attempt to create a discography of Child Ballad recordings.

Mick

Subject: RE: F.J. Child - entire work online!!!
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 07 Oct 06 - 12:00 PM

On the same web site there is a wealth of material including Fairy Tales (Grimms, Arabian Nights and the like) Folk Tales (Eastern European and Celtic myths and legends).
START HERE
It is one worth bookmarking in your browser.
Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: F.J. Child - entire work online!!!
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 Oct 06 - 01:39 PM

Great Stuff!! Thank you, thank you, thank you!!

(Just bookmarked them.)

Don Firth

Subject: RE: F.J. Child - entire work online!!!
From: GUEST,Brian Peters
Date: 07 Oct 06 - 02:22 PM

All very interesting. Especially since I'm planning a whole CD of nowt but Child Ballads.

David Kleiman's Heritage Muse digital Child Ballads (including tunes as midi files etc) is a very useful tool as well. He and his colleagues are planning a digital Bronson, but I have a feeling that may take some time!

Subject: RE: F.J. Child - entire work online!!!
From: Big Mick
Date: 07 Oct 06 - 06:52 PM

Another example of Mudcat at its best. Thanks, Ian, for this link. I bookmarked it immediately.

Mick

Subject: RE: F.J. Child - entire work online!!!
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 07 Oct 06 - 07:20 PM

The 'eight volumes' linked to are at the Making of America site (University of Michigan). They are not Child's English and Scottish Popular Ballads (1882 - 1898), but his earlier collection, English and Scottish Ballads (1860), which was a preliminary attempt at the subject with a much narrower scope. See previous discussions (links above) for more on that.

The version presented on the "Sacred Texts" site itself is one of several conversions to html of Cathy Preston's concordance, this time arranged as individual pages for each category, and therefore more easily accessed than most of the other online conversions of her work. It includes, for some reason, the preface to Child's earlier 1860 collection; but has neither the preface to the set presented, nor any of the extensive, and vital, supporting materials (notes, sources, bibliographies, glossary and so on). Since all contextual information is omitted, it is of little use to the serious enquirer, though it may be handy for people wanting raw material who are not particularly bothered where it came from.

It is not in any sense "the entire work", though it's understandable that people who aren't familiar with the real thing might not realise that. It's a pity that "Sacred Texts" were not more frank about the considerable limitations of the text they have copied.

For an annotated list of this and other conversions of Cathy Preston's concordance and related materials, see  http://www.folk-network.com/directory/links/song-collections_books.html.

Subject: RE: F.J. Child - entire work online!!!
From: Girl Friday
Date: 07 Oct 06 - 08:25 PM

Since going Broadband T.D.L. have found these sites, and downloaded the entire thing in 22 seconds! Watch out for more unsung Child ballads brought back to life!

Subject: RE: F.J. Child - entire work online!!!
From: Garry Gillard
Date: 07 Oct 06 - 08:48 PM

I have attempted to assemble all the links into one
simple list.

Subject: RE: F.J. Child - entire work online!!!
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 08 Oct 06 - 12:42 AM

NICE ADDITIONS - ALL of YOU!

Thank you for adding the links and resources and compilation to Mr. Gillard.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

perhaps, I can now figure out which ballad is closest to Chaucer's "Wife of Bath's Tale."

Subject: RE: F.J. Child - entire work online!!!
From: Folkiedave
Date: 08 Oct 06 - 03:39 AM

I can only echo Malcolm Douglas when I say that this is not the "proper" thing. I seem to remember that Child did this as a hack work as part of a series on English poetry. This was an eight volume work, the other is ten volumes.

The best complete edition of Child is probably the Dover Edition. For many years this was expensive second-hand. It has sinced dropped in price like a stone (new edition?). And can be pickd up for around 80 pounds/90 pounds a set.

Subject: RE: F.J. Child - entire work online!!!
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Oct 06 - 03:47 AM

Thanks for the clarification on that, Malcolm.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: F.J. Child - entire work online!!!
From: masato sakurai
Date: 08 Oct 06 - 06:42 AM

Previous thread on this 1860 edition: Child's English & Scottish Ballads, 1860 (online).

Subject: RE: F.J. Child - entire work online!!!
From: BB
Date: 08 Oct 06 - 10:33 AM

Brian, I hope you'll let Mudcat know when said CD is available. If not, please let *me* know!

Barbara

Subject: RE: F.J. Child - entire work online!!!
From: GUEST,Ian Pittaway
Date: 08 Oct 06 - 03:51 PM

Malcolm, Folkiedave, thanks for pointing out that this is not the Child collection that I guess everyone thinks they're referring to when they mention "Child", but an earlier edition. Nonetheless, it's *still* fantastic to have this resource online.

Girl Friday - how did you manage to download this? I can't see a way of doing this. The concordance is downloadable, but not the book itself, as far as I can see. Please put me right, as I'd love to download.

Subject: RE: F.J. Child - entire work online!!!
From: Peace
Date: 08 Oct 06 - 03:59 PM

Maybe she means this?

Subject: RE: F.J. Child - entire work online!!!
From: GUEST,Ian Pittaway
Date: 08 Oct 06 - 04:06 PM

Possibly, Peace, though it's not the actual book (facsimile), which I took GF to mean.

Subject: RE: F.J. Child - entire work online!!!
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 08 Oct 06 - 04:15 PM

There still seems to be some misunderstanding here.

There are two separate sets of files linked to at 'Sacred Texts'. The first is at another site (details above); that is the facsimile of the 1860 collection.

The second is Sacred Text's rendering to html of the song texts only of English and Scottish Popular Ballads (1882 - 1898): this was made (whether or not with her permission I don't know) from Cathy Preston's textual concordance, which was originally published online as a raw database.

Because it is a concordance, all contextual information (probably half or more of Child's work) is omitted. It isn't immediately obvious whether or not the people at 'Sacred Texts' have grasped this point.

The whole thing ought to be clear enough to people who use the links I have provided to further information instead of just jumping to conclusions.

Subject: RE: F.J. Child - entire work online!!!
From: Girl Friday
Date: 08 Oct 06 - 06:40 PM

Ian - we downloaded it using Broadband. It's approx, 8.5 megabytes- 1800 pages- downloaded in seconds. Saved it by using copy/paste then spent hours sorting and cataloguing it.Took about 4 hours and only quarter through. Well worth the trouble as we are finding material that we never knew existed. We're transcribing into reasonable English and writing tunes. Watch this space! Come to Orpington Folk Clubs.

Subject: RE: F.J. Child - entire work online!!!
From: Joybell
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 01:56 AM

Thank you Ian and Geoff. Since I have the Child collection already - the Dover books - it was the other books I was interested in. I'm having a fine time among the "Popular Romances of the West of England". I sent links to the local Cornish Association and several friends. Also the "accompaniment of Decorative Drawings" in "A Book of Old English Ballads" by George Wharton Edwards are just wonderful. Having a great time.
Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: F.J. Child - entire work online!!!
From: GUEST,Pamela from Ithaca
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 10:02 AM

The whole pie or not, this is a wonderful resource...
and made better by the clarifications and depth of knowledge
on this list. Thanks to all!

And I second BB's anticipation of Brian's planned CD of Child Ballads.
Let us know when it's ready for enjoyment!

Cheers, Pamela

Subject: RE: F.J. Child - entire work online!!!
From: GUEST,Ian Pittaway
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 10:56 AM

Girl Friday, I'm still confused as to what you downloaded, as I cannot see anywhere where it is possible to download the whole facsimile in one go. Could you give a link to the specific page and then point out where on that page you can download the whole thing for the slow, like me?!

Subject: RE: F.J. Child - entire work online!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 11:08 AM

I'd guess she used something like this

Had someone download 99Mb from our site with that one the other day. Will have to keep an eye on the situation...

Subject: RE: F.J. Child - entire work online!!!
From: GUEST,Brian Peters
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 11:11 AM

"And I second BB's anticipation of Brian's planned CD of Child Ballads. Let us know when it's ready for enjoyment!"

A bit more research to do before I book the studio, but rest assured I will let you people know in some tasteful and not over-commercial way!

Subject: RE: F.J. Child - entire work online!!!
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 11:21 AM

for ballad lovers, a CD re-issue of the Ewan MacColl/Peggy Seeger 5-LP set "Blood and Roses" is imminent. Watch this space!

Subject: RE: F.J. Child - entire work online!!!
From: nutty
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 11:21 AM

Cathy Preston's 'Concordance' material is included in the Bruce Olson Website which can be accessed via 'quick links' at the top of this page. The material is all downloadable.

I believe the site also contains some tunes to the ballads in ABC format.

Subject: RE: F.J. Child - entire work online!!!
From: Valmai Goodyear
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 11:57 AM

A splendid bit of work.

Ballad lovers, may I draw your attention to the fact that Brian Peters is running an all-day ballad forum at the Lewes Arms, Lewes, East Sussex, UK, on Sunday 3rd. December this year? Full details and a booking form are on the Lewes Arms Folk Club website www.members.aol.com/lewesarmsfolk.

Mr. Pittaway, please could you let me have your email address so that I can send you details of our all-day workshop on Early Music For Folk Musicians with Phil Humphries (Mellstock Band, serpent & trombone) on Sunday 19th. November? My address is valmai goodyear @ aol.com (remove spaces before using).

Best wishes,

Valmai

Lewes Arms Folk Club

Subject: RE: F.J. Child - entire work online!!!
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 04:11 PM

Links to the complete Dover printing of Child (Hawai'i website) have appeared several times; including links in threads
79114: Here
69044: and here

Also referenced several times is the complete corrected second edition now being printed by Loomis House Press. Volumes 1-3 (of 5) have been issued so far. Very reasonable cost considering the quality of this hardbound edition (paperback volumes also being printed). www.loomishousepress.com/child

Subject: RE: F.J. Child - entire work online!!!
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 04:28 PM

The reprint by Dover, 2003, sells for $75.75 through amazon.com, for the five volumes. A bargain price.
Some used sets are available, from about $58.

Subject: RE: F.J. Child - entire work online!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 12:38 PM

Dick Greenhaus
Don't forget 'The Long Harvest'
Talking of which - when the Long Harvest was issued there were 2 supplementary albums recorded for the series, non Child ballads - provisional title - Second Crop. They were never issued - does anybody know what happened to the recordings?
Also - in 1969 Argo (Decca) recorded MacColl talking about ballads with a view to issuing a disc of the talk - I was a member of the audience at Decca studio in Hampstead during the recording. This also was never issued (question as above).
I asked Peggy but she doesn't know.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: F.J. Child - entire work online!!!
From: GUEST,Ian Pittaway
Date: 10 Oct 06 - 03:49 PM

The Loomis House Press revised Child ballads looks ridiculously good value for money. First 3 volumes issued, 2 to go. Link provided elsewhere but here it is again: http://www.loomishousepress.com/child/

Subject: RE: F.J. Child - entire work online!!!
From: Kaleea
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 02:30 PM

All very interesting links! Thanks!!

Subject: RE: F.J. Child - entire work online!!!
From: Fidjit
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 05:50 PM

Yes all very interesting.

So can anyone direct me to something about the - Trubadours of France. 1400'ish or less. Surely some of their ballads would be interesting??

I vaguely know that Elanor, who was once married to a Louis of France (Can't remember which one, there were 14 or was it 16 of them!) and became Henry VIII's mother, sang songs. And that the trubadours or travauis, travelled extensivly all over "Gig-ing".
(No Ryanair in those days either).

Henry VII wrote songs too. Some of them rubbish. A few of the Child ballads are from that era and beyond.

Wot Ya Fink ?

Chas

Subject: RE: F.J. Child - entire work online!!!
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 06:10 PM

GUEST- (and anyone else that's interested in The Long Harvest)

Please E-mail me ([e-mail]). I may have some interesting news.

BTW-
The Loomis House Edition of Child, IMO, is a considerable improvement over the Dover reprints.
a) It consolidates Child's notes, which were scattered over the five volumes, and puts them where Child would have wanted them--attached to the ballad they refer to.
b) It presents the tunes that Child provided (meager as they were) in a sane manner: the tune is presented next to the set of words that uses that tune.
3) A large number of tunes, available to Child from his sources, but not included by Child in older editions have been added.

Subject: RE: F.J. Child - entire work online!!!
From: Girl Friday
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 06:38 PM

Ian
the address where the entire text resides is as follows:

http://www.ling.hawaii.edu/faculty/stampe/Oral-Lit/English/Child-Ballads/child.html

child ballad text


then, when on the site, (a picture of francis child is the first item to be shown) wait a couple of minutes while your browser loads the text (there are 1800 odd pages of it) then right click the mouse, select all, edit, copy to clipboard, open a new 'word' document, and paste contents of clipboard. this takes a few minutes, even on broadband, as the file is massive. then save the word document ( again, it takes a few minutes to save, because of the size). the best bet then is to break it down into separate documents with edit,cut,and paste, because it is really too big to simply read through. Happy hunting!

Mumblin Len

Subject: RE: F.J. Child - entire work online!!!
From: GUEST,Ian Pittaway
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 02:52 PM

Girl Friday - ohhhh! I *thought* you meant you had downloaded the *facsimile* pages! But looking at the Loomis House Press revised Child ballads (link in my post above) I think I'll go for that, it seems, much superior option. Not free, but not exactly expensive for what it is, either. Cheers, GF.

Subject: RE: F.J. Child - entire work online!!!
From: Girl Friday
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 08:49 PM

Ok Ian - glad you're sorted. GF

Subject: RE: F.J. Child - entire work online!!!
From: masato sakurai
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 02:31 PM

Child first published English and Scottish Ballads in 1857 (vols. 1-4) and 1859 (vols. 5-8), which is not the same as the 1860 edition. Both are an 8-volume edition, but classifications are here and there different and he also substituted his preface completely in 1860. The 1864 edition (I saw only the first volume of it) is substantially the same as the 1860, with minor bibliographic additions.

Subject: RE: F.J. Child - entire work online!!!
From: Valmai Goodyear
Date: 19 Oct 06 - 05:59 AM

More about the all-day ballad forum Brian Peters is leading at the Lewes Arms on 3rd. December, with a list of the ballads chosen so far. The earlier you book, the better chance you have of doing your first choice of ballad:

Lewes Arms Workshop No 75
BRIAN PETERS
BALLAD FORUM
Places £15
SUNDAY 3rd. DECEMBER 2006
10.45 a.m.- 4.45 p.m.
The Lewes Arms, Mount Place, Lewes,
East Sussex BN7 1YH
        The ancient ballads of Britain include many of the most powerful story-songs in the folk repertoire, exploring themes of heroism, savagery, magic & the supernatural. In this forum Brian Peters, leading researcher & performer of some of the greatest of the Child Ballads, will lead the group in discussing where to find the ballads, how to collate & arrange them, & how to set about singing them to best effect.
        You are invited to bring along
at least one traditional ballad of your choice to sing & talk about.*


ON SATURDAY 2ND. DECEMBER
BRIAN PETERS & GORDON TYRRALL
PERFORM AT
THE LEWES ARMS FOLK CLUB
(£6; advance tickets available
from address at end of this form)
BRIAN PETERS
BALLAD FORUM
SUNDAY 3rd. DECEMBER 2006

10.45   Registration & coffee; order lunch (refreshments not included)
12.30 - 13.30         Lunch
15.15        Tea/coffee break
16.45        Finish

*To avoid clashes with other contributors. please state your preferred ballad in advance. If your choice has already been taken, we will let you know so that you can choose another.

*BALLADS CHOSEN SO FAR:
CHILD OWLETT
THE CONSTANT LOVERS
LADY MARGARET & SWEET WILLIAM'S GHOST
A WAGER, A WAGER (version of Broomfield Wager)
WILLIE'S LYKE-WAKE

        Brian has led ballad workshops & classes from Sidmouth & the National Festival in England to festivals & camps in the USA & Canada, including the prestigious Pinewoods Camp in Massachusetts. 'Brian Peters plunges deep into the ancient songs, finds their power, mystery, evil, drollery & courage, & brings them to us fresh.' Folkstuff, newsletter of Cornell University Folksong Society, NY, US.

N.B. Booking is recommended as numbers are limited. Maps & accommodation lists
will be sent in advance.

BRIAN PETERS
BALLAD FORUM
SUNDAY 3rd. DECEMBER 2006
BOOKING FORM
I would like to attend the ballad forum on Sunday 3rd. December 2006. I enclose a cheque for £15.00 (refreshments not included).

Name:

Address:





*BALLAD CHOICE:

No. of tickets for Saturday evening (£6 each, include SAE for these):

Telephone:
E-mail address:

Tick for map:      Tick for accommodation list:

Please make cheques payable to Lewes Arms Folk Club and send with this booking form to: Valmai Goodyear, 20, St. John's Terrace,
LEWES, East Sussex BN7 2DL

Tel. [phone]
e-mail: [e-mail]
Website: http://members.aol.com/lewesarmsfolk/