Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafemuddy

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


Child's English & Scottish Ballads, 1860 (online)

Related threads:
(origins) Origins: Child Ballads: US Versions Part 4 (69)
English/Scot/Child ballads - CDs? (21)
Border & Hero ballads, Child #171-188 (34)
Death in the Child Ballads (14)
Folklore: Child's Essay on Ballad Poetry (29)
(origins) Origins: Child Ballads: US Versions Part 7 (58)
Ballads not included in Child (80)
Lyr Req: Aussie versions of Child ballads? (28)
(origins) Origins: Child Ballads: US Versions Part 6 (71)
Origins: Child Ballads: US Versions Part 5 (107)
How old are the oldest Child ballads? (51)
(origins) Origins: New Child Ballad Site (17)
Child ballads for download (8)
(origins) Origins: Child Ballads: US Versions Part 3 (83)
Child Ballad site (113)
Child Ballads: Anyone recorded the lot? (88)
nostalgia...Pogo does F.J. Child (47)
(origins) Origins: Child Ballads: US Versions Part 2 (106)
(origins) Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America? (168)
Child Ballads: US Versions (165)
Folklore: Child Ballad variant letters (3)
Loomis House Press - Child Ballads New Edition (41)
Child Ballad Books (26)
Child Ballads Go Vocaloid? (2)
Child Ballads about wars (12)
Source for Child Ballads (7)
NAmerica Child ballads book (8)
Child Ballads survived in oral trad. (101)
Child Ballads as Mastermind subject (BBC2) (40)
Bronson tunes - Child Ballads (105)
Looking for a copy of Child's ballads (9)
Child Ballad chorus song (22)
Dover edition of the Child Ballads (6)
Logic of Child Ballad Numbering (4)
Is there a 'Childs' songbook (60)
F.J. Child - entire work online!!! (43)
Irish versions of Child Ballads (18)
Dover has republished Child (29)
Review: Child Ballads - Digital Edition (5)
Child ballads advice column? (2) (closed)
Child Ballad CD Rom? (29)
Songbook of Child Ballads? (51)
Child Ballads help (37)
Child and Bronson For Sale.... (9)
What's so special about F. J. Child? (65)
The Child Book of Etiquette (15)
Child Ballads on eBay (14)
Child Ballad Concordance (PDF format) (8)
Some old Scots Child Ballads with tunes (5)
Choosing a Child Ballad for Study (24)
New Edition of Child! - Loomis House Press (34)
Child Ballad discussion on WFDU-FM (16)
Child's volumes (4)
Dover edition of Child on eBay (6)
Child ballads reissue (12)
Help: Resource of Child Ballads (9)
Auctioning 1st Edition Child's Ballads (30)
BS: Happy Birthday, Francis J Child (7) (closed)
Help: online edition Child's ballads (18)
Childe Ballads (15)
Lyr Req: Child Ballads (9)
Finding Child Ballads in Database? (6)
New web article on Early Child Ballads (6)
Francis James Child, BALLADS - recordings? (4)
Lyr Req: F. J. Child ballads (10)


masato sakurai 31 Oct 03 - 09:06 PM
GUEST,Q 31 Oct 03 - 09:58 PM
Sorcha 31 Oct 03 - 10:01 PM
masato sakurai 31 Oct 03 - 10:40 PM
masato sakurai 01 Nov 03 - 10:30 AM
Joe Offer 01 Nov 03 - 01:40 PM
Bill D 01 Nov 03 - 01:57 PM
GUEST 01 Nov 03 - 02:16 PM
MMario 02 Nov 03 - 12:50 PM
Bill D 02 Nov 03 - 02:01 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 02 Nov 03 - 07:34 PM
nutty 03 Nov 03 - 03:37 AM
Wolfgang 03 Nov 03 - 11:24 AM
radriano 03 Nov 03 - 12:11 PM
GUEST,MMario 03 Nov 03 - 12:21 PM
Malcolm Douglas 03 Nov 03 - 02:43 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 03 Nov 03 - 03:57 PM
GUEST,Learchild 04 Nov 03 - 04:13 PM
Peter Shepheard 15 Dec 09 - 04:02 PM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:





Subject: Child's English & Scottish Ballads, 1860
From: masato sakurai
Date: 31 Oct 03 - 09:06 PM

Francis James Child's earlier 8-volume edition, English and Scottish Ballads (Boston: Little, Brown and company, 1860), is now viewed online as a Making of America collection:

Volume 1

Volume 2

Volume 3

Volume 4

Volume 5

Volume 6

Volume 7

Volume 8


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Child's English & Scottish Ballads, 1860
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 31 Oct 03 - 09:58 PM

Q (member on Netscape, guest on IE)

Thanks, Masato, for pointing out the Making of America resource, which is an amazing collection.
Click on Browse, and get the alphabetical listing of books and papers. History, books for children, literature, etc. etc.
From the alphabetical listing, the Child volumes can be found by selecting C, then CH.
I have the alphabetical index page bookmarked; from it I can go not only to the Child volumes but all the rest, with just the one bookmark.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Child's English & Scottish Ballads, 1860
From: Sorcha
Date: 31 Oct 03 - 10:01 PM

Omigawd. Wonder how long it woud take to print it......thanks, Masato-San.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Child's English & Scottish Ballads, 1860
From: masato sakurai
Date: 31 Oct 03 - 10:40 PM

Interestingly, "Greensleeves" is in Volume 4 (pp. 240-244). Of course, the song was not included in his definitive edition.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Child's English & Scottish Ballads, 1860 (online)
From: masato sakurai
Date: 01 Nov 03 - 10:30 AM

From the preface:
                                              PREFACE.

       THESE volumes have been compiled from the numerous collections of Ballads printed since the beginning of the last century. They contain all but two or three of the ancient ballads of England and Scotland, and nearly all those ballads which, in either country, have been gathered from oral tradition,-- whether ancient or not. Widely different from the true popular ballads, the spontaneous products of nature, are the works of the professional ballad-maker, which make up the bulk of Garlands and Broadsides. These, though sometimes not without grace, more frequently not lacking in humor, belong to artificial literature, -- of course to an humble department.¹ As many ballads of this second class have been admitted as it was thought might be wished for, perhaps I should say tolerated, by the " benevolent reader." No words could express the dulness and inutility of a collection which should embrace all the Roxburghe and Pepys broadsides -- a scope with which this publication was most undeservedly credited by an English journal. But while the broadside ballads have been and must have been gleaned, the popular ballads demand much more liberal treatment. Many of the older ones are mutilated, many more are miserably corrupted, but as long as any traces of their originals are left, they are worthy of attention and have received it. When a ballad is extant in a variety of forms, all the most important versions are given. -- Less than this would have seemed insufficient for a collection intended as a complement to an extensive series of the British Poets. To meet the objections of readers for pleasure, all those pieces which are wanting in general interest are in each volume inserted in an appendix.
    The ballads are grouped in eight Books, nearly corresponding to the division of volumes. The arrangement in the several Books may be called chronological, by which is meant, an arrangement according to the probable antiquity of the story, not the age of the actual form or language. Exceptions to this rule will be observed, partly the result of oversight, partly of fluctuating views; the most noticeable case is in the First Book, where the ballads that stand at the beginning are certainly not so old as some that follow. Again, it is very possible that some pieces might with advantage be transferred to different Books, but it is believed that the general disposition will be found practically convenient. It is as follows: —
       BOOK I. contains Ballads involving Superstitions of various kinds,-- as of Fairies, Elves, Water-spirits, Enchantment, and Ghostly Apparitions; and also some Legends of Popular Heroes.
       BOOK II. Tragic Love-ballads.
       BOOK III. other Tragic Ballads.
       BOOK IV. Love-ballads not Tragic.
       BOOK V. Ballads of Robin Hood, his followers, and compeers.
       BOOK VI. Ballads of other Outlaws, especially Border Outlaws, of Border Forays, Feuds, &c.
       BOOK VII.Historical Ballads, or those relating to public characters or events.
       BOOK VIII. Miscellaneous Ballads, especially Humorous, Satirical, Burlesque; also some specimens of the Moral and Scriptural, and all such pieces as had been overlooked in arranging the earlier volumes.
    For the Texts, the rule has been to select the most authentic copies, and to reprint them as they stand in the collections, restoring readings that had been changed without grounds, and noting all deviations from the originals, whether those of previous editors or of this edition, in the margin. Interpolations acknowledged by the editors have generally been dropped. In two instances only have previously printed texts been superseded or greatly improved: the text of The Horn of King Arthur, in the first volume, was furnished from the manuscript, by J. O. Halliwell, Esq., and Adam Bel, in the fifth volume, has been amended by a recently discovered fragment of an excellent edition, kindly communicated by J. P. Collier, Esq.
    The Introductory Notices prefixed to the several ballads may seem dry and somewhat meagre. They will be found, it is believed, to comprise what is most essential even for the less cursory reader to know. These prefaces are intended to give an account of all the printed forms of each ballad, and references to the books in which they were first published. In many cases also, the corresponding ballads in other languages, especially in Danish, Swedish, and German, are briefly pointed out. But these last notices are very imperfect. Fascinating as such investigations are, they could not be allowed to interfere with the progress of the series of Poets of which this collection of Ballads forms' a part, nor were the necessary books immediately at hand. At a more favorable time the whole subject may be resumed, unless some person better qualified shall take it up in the interim.
    While upon this point let me make the warmest acknowledgments for the help received from Grundtvig's Ancient Popular Ballads of Denmark (Danmarics Gamle Folkeviser), a work which has no equal in its line, and which may in every way serve as a model for collections of National Ballads. Such a work as Grundtvig's can only be imitated by an English editor, never equalled, for the material is not at hand. All Denmark seems to have combined to help on his labors; schoolmasters and clergymen, in those retired nooks where tradition longest lingers, have been very active in taking down ballads from the mouths of the people, and a large number of old manuscripts have been placed at his disposal.-- We have not even the Percy Manuscript at our command, and must be content to take the ballads as they are printed in the Reliques, with all the editor's changes. This manuscript is understood to be in the hands of a dealer who is keeping it from the public in order to enhance its value. The greatest service that can now be done to English Ballad-literature is to publish this precious document. Civilization has made too great strides in the island of Great Britain for us to expect much more from tradition.
    Certain short romances which formerly stood in the First Book, have been dropped from thise second Edition, in order to give the collection a homogeneous character. One or two ballads have been added, and some of the prefaces considerably enlarged.                                                            F. J. C.
    May, 1860.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
¹ This distinction is not absolute, for several of the ancient ballads have a sort of literary character, and many broadsides were printed from oral tradition. The only popular ballads excluded from this selection that require mention, are The Bonny Hynd, The Jolly Beggar, The Baffled Knight, The Keach in the Creel, and The Earl of Errol. These ballads, in all their varieties, may be found by referring to the general Index at the end of the eighth volume. To extend
the utility of this index, references are also given to many other ballads which, though not worth reprinting, may occasionally be inquired for.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Child's English & Scottish Ballads, 1860 (online)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Nov 03 - 01:40 PM

I was a bit disappointed because the more visible part of this site is scans of the printed work. Not to worry. There is a text version of each volume available - you just have to look for the link. It's a big download, but not horrible.
Having it in text makes it searchable, which is a great advantage.
-Joe Offer-


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Child's English & Scottish Ballads, 1860 (online)
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Nov 03 - 01:57 PM

well! amazing...that is the set I have bound in 4 volumes. Now, if I can search the text, then go read MY copy leisurely by the fire...*grin*...
Thanks, Masato, for the find!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Child's English & Scottish Ballads, 1860 (online)
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Nov 03 - 02:16 PM

Another great contribution by Masato.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Child's English & Scottish Ballads, 1860 (online)
From: MMario
Date: 02 Nov 03 - 12:50 PM

Does it include tunes?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Child's English & Scottish Ballads, 1860 (online)
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Nov 03 - 02:01 PM

tunes were never provided by Child. Can't imagine how this could. (but we can wish)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Child's English & Scottish Ballads, 1860 (online)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Nov 03 - 07:34 PM

Has anyone compiled a list of the lyrics in the 1860 edition that do not appear in the later editions? - Short of checking title for title.
This probably has been done already.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Child's English & Scottish Ballads, 1860 (online)
From: nutty
Date: 03 Nov 03 - 03:37 AM

Mmario ...... Bruce Olson's site has ABC's of many of the old ballads included in Child's collections.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Child's English & Scottish Ballads, 1860 (online)
From: Wolfgang
Date: 03 Nov 03 - 11:24 AM

Thanks

Wolfgang


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Child's English & Scottish Ballads, 1860 (online)
From: radriano
Date: 03 Nov 03 - 12:11 PM

MMario,

There is another book which is a sourse of tunes for the Child Ballads. In fact, in some cases several different melodies were collected for any individual ballad. Now my memory cells are playing hide and seek again but I think the author's name is Bronson? Can someone confirm that? I do have a copy of the volume at home so I can post details tomorrow unless someone else gets to it first.

Radriano


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Child's English & Scottish Ballads, 1860 (online)
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 03 Nov 03 - 12:21 PM

I've got the single volume Bronson 'The Singing Tradition of Child's Popular Ballads'


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Child's English & Scottish Ballads, 1860 (online)
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 03 Nov 03 - 02:43 PM

A search for bronson will locate a good number of past discussions.

One of the most useful results of having the shorter "first draft" of Child easily available will be the opportunity to compare the texts; in particular material omitted in the later work; supporting material such as fuller transcriptions of some of the European analogues, and some entire ballads. Child had good reason for cutting those latter, of course, and comparison should help to understand a little more of his methodology.

Oddly, my local University has the 1860 work on the shelves, but you have to go to the City library for the English and Scottish Popular Ballads itself. Now I can drop a major job from the photocopying list. Thanks to Masato for letting us know about this very useful resource; and especially to the University of Michigan for providing it.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Child's English & Scottish Ballads, 1860 (online)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Nov 03 - 03:57 PM

Complete poems of Lord Byron, other poets on the website. The indices to the works available are worth copying for reference. Years of reading material here.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Child's English & Scottish Ballads, 1860 (online)
From: GUEST,Learchild
Date: 04 Nov 03 - 04:13 PM

Radriano
Professor Bertrand H Bronson, of University of California at Berkley published a 4 volume set entitled the Traditional tunes of the Child Ballads. Child apparently could not conclude his research into the ballads as they appeared in the American tradition, this work of Bronson appears to be an excellent conclusion to that research. The tunes that we know and sing here in the north of England seem to be as published in Bronson. It is a massive work in itself. Published by Princeton University.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Child's English & Scottish Ballads, 1860 (onli
From: Peter Shepheard
Date: 15 Dec 09 - 04:02 PM

The Loomis House reprint of Bronson's The Traditional Tunes of the Child Ballads is available through Springthyme both in UK and for Worldwide distribution - priced at £22 per volume (paperback) and £28 (hardback):
Link: Bronson: Traditional Tunes - full set for £87

We have also been distributing the Loomis House reprint of Child's: The English and Scottish Ballads for several years - since the first volume was published in 2001.

Bronson: Traditional Tunes of the Child Ballads - Special Bargain: POST FREE (to UK and Ireland) : BUY ALL FOUR VOLUMES TOGETHER and be offered a FREE CD with fully searchable files for the complete collection: 2,200 pages of tunes and texts with notation for 4,120 tunes. The bargain of the century!

The Singing Tradition - that is, Bertrand H Bronson's The Singing Tradition of Child's Popular Ballads, is a single-volume, abridged edition of Bronson's four volume The Traditional Tunes of the Child Ballads.

To create this edition, Bronson selected those tunes and texts which had the strongest representation in the oral tradition, excluding those from the original collection which only existed in print. The volume has an excellent new introduction where Bronson analyses the essential unity of a ballad text and tune and he shows how ballad tunes have evolved to produce tune families. His introduction to the modal structure of tunes in the Anglo-American tradition is essential reading for singers and students of the ballad tradition.

Dick Greenhaus of Camsco Music was the driving force behind the Bronson reprint - obtaining permission from the original publishers Princeton University Press and then working with Loomis House Press to arrange the republishing. Loomis in the United States had already set about republishing Child's English and Scottish Popular Ballads and we at Springthyme in Scotland arranged to distribute the Loomis Child volumes through our website. The four volume of Bronson's Traditional Tunes of the Child Ballads became available earlier this year and now the condensed Singing Tradition in November 2009 is an alternative for those without the funds or the bookshelf space for the full set.

All these are available from Springthyme - including a special bargain price on the four volume set of Bronson: BUY ALL FOUR VOLUMES TOGETHER and be offered a FREE CD with fully searchable files for the complete collection: 2,200 pages of tunes and texts with notation for 4,120 tunes. The bargain of the century!

Have a look at:
Bronson: Traditional Tunes of the Child Ballads
More about Bronson's 'Traditional Tunes' & 'Singing Tradition'

For years it has been almost impossible to get the full set of Bronson (and the cost could be well over £1000) and the condensed edition has been near £100 (paperback) and up to £400 for the hardback. Congratulations to Dick at Camsco!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 21 June 1:32 AM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.