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Is there a 'Childs' songbook

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philgarringer 10 Jul 07 - 11:52 AM
The Borchester Echo 10 Jul 07 - 12:09 PM
Folkiedave 10 Jul 07 - 12:30 PM
The Borchester Echo 10 Jul 07 - 12:37 PM
MMario 10 Jul 07 - 12:40 PM
The Borchester Echo 10 Jul 07 - 12:46 PM
GUEST,countrylife 10 Jul 07 - 12:52 PM
MMario 10 Jul 07 - 12:54 PM
curmudgeon 10 Jul 07 - 12:56 PM
The Borchester Echo 10 Jul 07 - 01:04 PM
MMario 10 Jul 07 - 01:11 PM
The Borchester Echo 10 Jul 07 - 01:16 PM
GUEST,leeneia 10 Jul 07 - 01:56 PM
MMario 10 Jul 07 - 02:01 PM
The Borchester Echo 10 Jul 07 - 02:08 PM
Bill D 10 Jul 07 - 02:09 PM
Joe Offer 10 Jul 07 - 02:12 PM
curmudgeon 10 Jul 07 - 02:48 PM
The Borchester Echo 10 Jul 07 - 02:57 PM
GUEST,countrylife 10 Jul 07 - 03:15 PM
MMario 10 Jul 07 - 03:27 PM
Folkiedave 10 Jul 07 - 03:31 PM
BB 10 Jul 07 - 03:32 PM
The Borchester Echo 10 Jul 07 - 03:48 PM
MMario 10 Jul 07 - 03:48 PM
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MMario 10 Jul 07 - 03:54 PM
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The Borchester Echo 10 Jul 07 - 04:15 PM
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MMario 10 Jul 07 - 04:29 PM
Joe Offer 10 Jul 07 - 05:01 PM
GUEST,countrylife 10 Jul 07 - 05:08 PM
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Subject: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: philgarringer
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 11:52 AM

Hello all.

I have been searching for a good (guitar chords and tabs) songbook that contains lot's "Child's" ballads. Also, a good songbook for Fairport Convention's stuff.

I have Mr. Lomax's songbook from the early 70's of American stuff, which has lot's of good trad stuff in it, but I am trying to find a "British" equivalent.

I love the Contemplator website, but it's tough to find guitar chords for a lot of this stuff.


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 12:09 PM

Child Ballad Index

EFDSS Publications: Online Songbook Sales


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: Folkiedave
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 12:30 PM

Alternatively I have a ten volume set of the original publication in a limited edition of 1,000.

And I can put you on the list for the four volume set of Bronson "Traditional Tunes to the Child Ballads"!!

But you do need money for these.


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 12:37 PM

On the other hand, 99% of cyberspace is taken up with lyrics sites containing Fairport Convention lyrics.

Just google it.


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: MMario
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 12:40 PM

If you will note he is looking for guitar chords.


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 12:46 PM

He (if he is a he) will find chords in the EFDSS books.
And on the online lyrics sites.
Or, indeed, by googling the titles of songs required.


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: GUEST,countrylife
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 12:52 PM

hardly 99% *LOL* some folk (pun intended) do love to exaggerate


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: MMario
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 12:54 PM

In English the male pronoun includes the female unless it is specified to be exclusively male; so whether philgarringer is male or female "He" at this point in time is gramatically correct.

And the chords and tunes for Childs ballads are not easy to find on the internet, or we would have a bunch more of them right here in the DT.


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: curmudgeon
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 12:56 PM

You might look for a used copy of "The Singing Island," MacColl/Seeger. It ha s some Child ballads as well as guitar chords for all the songs. Maybe Folkiedave can help - Tom


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 01:04 PM


In English the male pronoun includes the female unless it is specified to be exclusively male


Bloody well doesn't!

'Tunes for Child ballads' mostly don't exist as Prof FJC couldn't be arsed to collect them together. So you use anything you damn well like.


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: MMario
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 01:11 PM

Yes, Diane, it does. And always has. they tried to change that standard in the 60's and again in the 70's and both times the change got voted down. So suck up and deal.


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 01:16 PM

'Voted down'?
By whom?
Who are 'they'?
If you mean 'he' or 'she', that's what you say.
If writing, you might put 's/he'.
What you don't do is include those of female gender under a male pronoun.
Not in my English class and not in my world.


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 01:56 PM

Long ago, I borrowed a book with a title such as Traditional Tunes to the Child Ballads through Interlibrary Loan. I don't remember the author's name, but how many books of that nature can there be?

I gather that collectors paid little attention to the tunes of the ballads. They were interested in the ballads as literature, not as music. I'm sure that some of the tunes were written down by real amateur, as they seemed unplayable.

The book did have tunes written out, but most of them were drab and uninteresting. I copied the few I found worthwhile, and of them, I now remember only one, a tune for Lord Randall which sounds like a slow air. There were no chords in the book, but the tunes are so simple that chords should be easy to work out.

Of course, a real folkie would want to see for himelf. Maybe something that looked drab to me will appeal to you. If I were you, I would go to a public library and see if it has or could borrow a book for you.

Another good idea is to make up a tune yourself. There are already many tunes for any one story. what's wrong with another one?


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: MMario
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 02:01 PM

Then, Diane, your world is abnormal.

voted down by the International Comittee on Standards for the English Language.

"They" being political reactionaries.

In English, whether you like it or not, the masculine takes the precedent, and legaly and gramaticaly is inclusive of the feminine unless it is specified to not do so. The female pronouns and feminine terms however are exclusinve and never include the masculine.

s/he is a bastardization and is *always* gramatically incorrect.


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 02:08 PM

Bollocks.

Use your time to make up a few toons for whoever it is who asked the question in the first place. 'Proper' toons that is, not just a handful of major key, ironed-out chords.


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 02:09 PM

I own a copy of 'Traditional Tunes to the Child Ballads '..it is a nice resource. There are many other books with tunes to selected ballads.

Or, if you know how and have access to newsgroups, (uesnet), many recorded versions of the Child ballads are being posted by several collectors these days. It's a great way to compare tunes & lyrics..


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 02:12 PM

Well, I suppose any songbook that has "ballads" in the title, will contain a lot of Child Ballads. Trouble is, most of those books follow the example of Professor Child and don't include melodies (and certainly not chords). Many ballad singers prefer to sing their ballads unaccompanied, so some ballad books include melodies but no chords. Classic English Folksongs, the EFDSS reissue of the famous Penguin Book of English Folk Songs, is like that.

You can find a number of Child (and other) ballads in two wonderful books that DO have melodies and chords:

  • The English Folksinger edited by Sam Richards and Tish Stubbs, 1979
  • The Scottish Folksinger, edited by Norman Buchan and Peter Hall, 1973

Both books were published by Collins in paperback. They may be out of print, but they are readily available from used book sellers.

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: curmudgeon
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 02:48 PM

If I recall correctly, all of Ewan MacColl's song collections have chords. You might also want to look for Dan Milner's anthology, "A Bonny Bunch of Roses."

If Folkiedave can't get them for you, go   here.

And MMario is quite correct in his statements on English usage - Tom


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 02:57 PM

No he bloody well isn't.
He's just one of the blokey, overbearing throwbacks intent on trying to impose outdated sexist language to try and prove they're superior,
They're not.


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: GUEST,countrylife
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 03:15 PM

"And MMario is quite correct in his statements on English usage"

"No he bloody well isn't."

Ummm...yes he "bloody" well is, as the rules of English usage now stand...want to change them? Be my guest. Do rather than talk, that's the key.


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: MMario
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 03:27 PM

Diane - if you knew me you would know how ludicrous your last post is!


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: Folkiedave
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 03:31 PM

#Generally speaking I charge around £20.00 for "The Singing Island"

I shall be at Furness Tradition Festival this weekend.

Alternatively PM me.

I don't have a Richards/Stubbs, I do have Scottish Folksinger.

Blatant self-advert in response to thread!!

Dave


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: BB
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 03:32 PM

"'Tunes for Child ballads' mostly don't exist as Prof FJC couldn't be arsed to collect them together"

In fear and trembling at the idea of being shouted down by the author of the above words, and boy, can she shout well without having to put things in capitals, two people have, I believe, mentioned 'The Traditional Tunes to the Child Ballads' by Bronson. These were collected from a large number of sources throughout the UK and North America.

Buying them is out of the question for most people, but they should be available through libraries. I would suggest getting just one at a time, finding versions that you like the tunes/words to, then work on finding out which chords to use without necessarily depending on what someone else has already written down. That way, you might find unusual versions, and make them very much your own.

Going through those books can be a wonderful voyage of discovery. Have fun!

Barbara


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 03:48 PM

It's far more interesting to do as Andy Irvine did when getting Willie O Winsbury out of Bronson, letting the pages blow over and copying out the tune for Fause Foodrage instead.

This is quite a good tune (for Bronson which contains many crap ones), so much so that it's over done now, serving as it does for the two ballads. Just as well there are plenty of others for Willie.


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: MMario
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 03:48 PM

I've got a facsimile of the abridged version of bronson - but not the four volume one.


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 03:50 PM

No I don't know MMario.
Nor does s/he know me.
I don't do ESL classes for Murkans.
Especially not those who make comments on my 'accent'.


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 03:53 PM

to clarify: *I* have the abridged paperback book of "Traditional Tunes to the Child Ballads"...though I know 3-4 people within a 30 minute drive who have the 4-volume set....and with the internet WWW1 to browse in, almost any traditional OR recently composed(last 200 years) tune can be found, even if you have to plead...*grin* I have uploaded a number of ballad tunes for folks like Roberto and others.



1(With erudite masters...('mistresses'?) about, we DO want accuracy, don't we?)


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: MMario
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 03:54 PM

Do you study to be as offensive as you are, or does it come naturally?

Because you are quite good at it.


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: MMario
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 03:56 PM

whoops! My last comment was *not* directed at Bill!


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: beardedbruce
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 04:01 PM

An obvious site to look at, and listen to.

http://www.childballads.com/


Not endorsing, just the first one to come up on search, and it looks as if it has both text and MIDI files.


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 04:15 PM

If the Original (possibly androgynous) Poster gets this far, s/he should be advised that there is really no need to try and decipher this tripe as I answered his/her query fully in #2, referring him/her to the Child Ballad Index site and to the online song book ordering site of the EFDSS.


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: beardedbruce
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 04:22 PM

Ms. Easby,

On Mudcat, the posting of a question is something to both obtain an answer and to stimulate discussion of related topics. Since your post in message number 2 does not address the totality of the poster's questions: ie,


"I have been searching for a good (guitar chords and tabs) songbook that contains lot's "Child's" ballads. Also, a good songbook for Fairport Convention's stuff.

I have Mr. Lomax's songbook from the early 70's of American stuff, which has lot's of good trad stuff in it, but I am trying to find a "British" equivalent.

I love the Contemplator website, but it's tough to find guitar chords for a lot of this stuff. "



You should be advised that your post of 10 Jul 07 - 04:15 PM is both inaccurate and insulting.Please try to consider that others might actually have information that the poster would want, from the posting, to know about.


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: MMario
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 04:29 PM

and both her links go to the same site.


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 05:01 PM

If you don't like Diane's fighting ways, don't fight with her....


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: GUEST,countrylife
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 05:08 PM

always someone else's fault, never Diane Easby's..track record proves otherwise, I think.


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 05:12 PM

I referred the OP to:

(1) the Child Ballad Index site and
(2) EFDSS publications online ordering.

That covers all relevant requirements such as Bronson's tatty tunes, other tunes, texts and chords.

Then I noticed the request for 'Fairport material'.
For that you google as cyberspace is dripping with it.

All the rest is extraneous, and thus unnecessary tripe to a poster with a specific request, though s/he might have been amused by my Andy Irvine story (or possibly not).

Especially the bollocks about gender specific language use delivered in a highly patronising and sexist manner, none of which had anything whatsoever to do with the original request.

Who's fighting? I answered a question. End of.


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: Jeri
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 05:16 PM

Diane, what's the link to EFDSS Publications: Online Songbook Sales? If you post it, I'll fix your earlier link.


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 05:18 PM

http://folkshop.efdss.org/publications/index.htm


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: Jeri
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 05:23 PM

Got it - thanks.


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: Jeri
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 07:04 PM

Phil (if you're still around), out of curiosity, I Googled for following: "fairport convention" tabs, and got a ton of hits. Whether there are any tabs at those sites, or how many/how good they may be, I don't know.


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: masato sakurai
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 07:24 PM

Some tunes are included in F.J. Child's The English and Scottish Popular Ballads, part 10 [vol. 5] (1898). "Ballad Airs from Manuscript" are on pp. 411-424. See also The English and Scottish Popular Ballads, vol. V [pts. 9-10] (reprint ed., 1956).


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: masato sakurai
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 07:34 PM

Robert Chambers, comp., Twelve Romantic Scottish Ballads: With the Original Airs, Arranged for the Pianoforte (1844) is at Google Book Search.


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: BB
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 05:10 AM

Diane, why do you have such a down on Bronson, referring to the tunes he published as "crap" and "tatty"?

Obviously the original singers thought they were worth singing, and the collectors thereof thought they were worth collecting - surely, Bronson just brought them together so that others could make up their own minds, and along the way enabled some of us to learn quite a lot about traditional tune structures, modes, etc.

I'm not trying to stir up an argument here - seriously, I would like to know.

Barbara


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 05:25 AM

The very fact that many singers thought it necessary to fit different tunes to ballads or write their own is an indication that a lot of existing ones were not altogether inspiring.

Many ballads were collected without tunes anyway; whether this was an indication that they weren't very good or that the collectors weren't skilled in notation is a matter for speculation. Probably both.

Obviously not all Bronson's published tunes are crap but many can be, and have been, bettered.


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: GUEST,Sue Allan
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 05:34 AM

For information re. the spat further up this thread on use of 'he' instead of 'she':

My copy of Hart's Rules, the guide for editors and printers published by Oxford University Press (2005 edition),clearly states that "it is now generally regarded as old-fashioned or sexist to us he in reference to a person of unspecified sex, as in 'every child needs to know that he is loved.' The alternative 'her or she' is often preferred, and in formal contexts is probably the best solution, but can become tiresomely long-winded when used frequently. Use of 'they' in this sense ('everyone needs to feel that they matter') is becoming generally accepted coth in speech and in writing, espeically where it occurs after an indefinite pronoun such as everyone or someone..."

The OED website states:
"The English language unfortunately lacks a simple singular pronoun which does not specify gender. Various people have suggested new words to fill this gap, but none of them has caught on, or (frankly) is ever likely to: it is not practical to try to change such a basic element of the language by sheer will.

"However, children and adults alike naturally find the obvious solution to this conundrum: rather than using the formal and awkward formula 'he or she', they simply use they, especially after words such as anyone and no one which are strictly singular but often imply a reference to more than one person.

"This is not a new problem, or a new solution. 'A person can't help their birth', wrote Thackeray in Vanity Fair (1848), and even Shakespeare produced the line 'Every one to rest themselves betake' (in Lucrece), which pedants would reject as logically ungrammatical.

"If you do not find this usage acceptable, there are alternatives. You could resort to the awkward 'he or she' formula, or to the practice of writing 'he' when you mean 'he or she' (which many people find objectionable), or to recasting all your sentences to avoid the problem!"

I think, MMario, that the lesson is that no committee can ultimately legislate on the English language: it is forever changing and moving and USAGE is the best guide. And if a given usage offends people then it will tend to disappear, which is what is happening with as 'he' used as generic term irrespective of gender.


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: BB
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 05:49 AM

"Many ballads were collected without tunes anyway".

At the time that many of the ballads were collected, there was no real interest in the tunes - the collectors, and those who were likely to buy their publications, were only interested in the words - 'Ancient Poetry' - which is why many of the old collections are so frustrating to many of us today. Some collectors, like Alfred Williams, actually felt that the songs shouldn't be revived as songs, but felt that the words should not be lost. Strange isn't it, when the main focus of the collectors around the turn of the 19th/20th Century was, generally, the melodies of the songs they collected? To me, as a singer, I find both attitudes immensely frustrating at times, but the work of Bronson and others makes up for it to some extent.

I doubt that many of those who collected without melodies chose not to do so because the tunes weren't very good, although later collectors may have rejected certain songs for that reason. If collectors had wanted to collect tunes with the words, they would have taken someone with them who could take down tunes by ear (as Baring Gould did) - not an easy skill for anyone. So I suspect your speculations are unlikely.

You may be right, Diane, that those are the reasons that singers use(d) different tunes, either their own or others, but it may simply be an indication that they wish to make the songs their own rather than slavishly copying others, or they don't remember or misremember the tunes they originally heard, i.e. what is usually called 'the folk process'. It could just be a matter of individual creativity; sometimes the variations were anything but minor!

Barbara


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 06:00 AM

>>>My copy of Hart's Rules, the guide for editors and printers published by Oxford University Press (2005 edition),clearly states that "it is now generally regarded as old-fashioned or sexist to us he in reference to a person of unspecified sex, as in 'every child needs to know that he is loved.' The alternative 'her or she' is often preferred, and in formal contexts is probably the best solution, but can become tiresomely long-winded when used frequently. Use of 'they' in this sense ('everyone needs to feel that they matter') is becoming generally accepted coth in speech and in writing, espeically where it occurs after an indefinite pronoun such as everyone or someone..."<<<


Good Lordy!

I've no problem if people refer to me as 'he'. I know I'm not and I don't regard it as being sexist in the slightest.......and besides...the world's in one HELLUVA state...so aren't there truly more important things to worry about?

We could always call each other 'Its'....then no-one would get upset..

Rolls eyes up to heaven smiley....

We do Elizabethan English in our house...No rules, no upsets. :0)


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: GUEST,Brian Peters
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 06:15 AM

Having recently spent a good deal of time in the company of Prof. Bronson and his meisterwerk, can I speak up in his defence? The tunes in his four volumes, far from being "crap", "tatty", "dull" or "uninteresting", include some of the most beautiful traditional airs you can find anywhere. Lovely modal melodies, unconventional rhythms, its all there if you just take the trouble to look for it (and even an apparently simple tune can be the perfect vehicle for a good story, in the right hands). Of course this does require (a) access to a copy of Bronson, and (b) the time and patience to go through what can be an intimidatingly large body of material.

One of the problems with the Child Ballads is that many he considered pivotal to his collection were not widely sung even in his day, if ever. Those are the ones you need to compose or adapt tunes for if you're going to sing them - and many are tales well worthy of the telling. You want to sing 'Sir Aldingar' or 'King Estmere', and you're on your own. 'Willie's Lady' has only one entry in Bronson and it isn't too inspiring, so it's small wonder that Martin Carthy decided to look elsewhere. 'Kemp Owyne' also has only one trad. tune - it looks dull on paper but comes dramatically to life when you actually sing it. But if you're interested in 'The Gypsy Laddie', 'Two Sisters' or any of the many Child Ballads common in oral tradition, you can go to Bronson and you'll surely find one you like amongst the dozens he prints.

What's frustrating is that so many performers of Child Ballads neither look up interesting versions in Bronson or elsewhere, nor compose tunes of their own, but merely copy the versions that Martin Carthy or Nic Jones or Fairport popularised years ago.

As far as the original question goes, recent EFDSS publications (including the new edition of Marrow Bones) would certainly be a good place to start. Or you could always listen to some source recordings - Voice of the People, for instance. Then make up your own guitar chords.

Oh, and PS: the tune in Child for 'False Foudrage' is indeed a good one, but far better suited to Willie O' Winsbury than to the grim but ultimately heroic tale of the ballad with which it was collected. Better to find an alternative for 'Foudrage' - I used 'Lord Gregory', and it's surprising how few people spot it.


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 06:25 AM

it's small wonder that Martin Carthy decided to look elsewhere

Quite. But it wasn't his idea to use the Breton pipe tune Son Ar Chistr for Willie's Lady. Ray Fisher had the original inspiration and Martin used it with permission.

And yes, Andy Irvine was indeed 'inspired' (or lucky) to have put the 'wrong' tune to WoW.

And you know how much I like your FF, Brian.


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: GUEST,Brian Peters
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 06:30 AM

"Ray Fisher had the original inspiration and Martin used it with permission."

Yes, quite right. And I think I like Ray's version - with all the crunching Scots dialect left in - even more than Martin's. Though it's a close thing.


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 10:01 AM

"The tunes in his four volumes, far from being "crap", "tatty", "dull" or "uninteresting", include some of the most beautiful traditional airs you can find anywhere."

How about posting them (or some of them) as MIDI's, Brian? I'll see if I can find the one I vaguely remember.


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: GUEST,Brian Peters
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 10:10 AM

"How about posting them (or some of them) as MIDI's, Brian?"

Er..... sounds like quite a bit of trouble to go to to prove a Mudcat point. I know Heritage Muse were planning to do exactly that, but the task would be Herculean. Which ballad was it you "vaguely remembered" the tune for anyway?

There will, of course, be several tunes from the Bronson collection on my forthcoming CD of Child Ballads (and thank you for giving me the opportunity to mention it).


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: Folkiedave
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 11:33 AM

I think sometimes people get a bit hung up here.

The tunes to Child that Bronson discovered (generally speaking) are available since he found them.... so can anyone else.

But there is no need to restrict the tune to say "Riddles Wisely Expounded" to that ballad. Each tune can be adapted, adopted, borrowed and so on....just see Bronson as a starting point would be my advice.

There is a good biography here
though it doesn't emphasise (enough) why he disliked the earlier version he did in the 1850's. He later realised it was not the precise work he wanted so he devoted himself to tracking down original sources.

Let me get the original out and I'll come back later....

Dave


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: GUEST,Brian Peters
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 12:09 PM

"just see Bronson as a starting point would be my advice."

Indeed. Using a given tune for different ballads seems to have gone on in tradition, so no reason not to switch them around now. Or use phrases from two different tunes to create a new one. Or tweak a collected tune, like Tony Rose did with "Banks of Green Willow".

Sometimes, though, the song as collected is so good that it doesn't need to be tampered with.


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: GUEST, Sminky
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 12:50 PM

There's also an online edition of Chappell's 'Popular Music Of The Olden Time'

Volume 1

and

Volume 2

which contains many ballad tunes.


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 01:47 PM

The man wants guitar chords,so why doesnt he buy Martin Carthys Books[Iwould be surprisedif it contained no ballads],or better still get a set of words and a melody and work out his own chords,its not difficult.


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: peregrina
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 02:10 PM

Another thing you could try for melody and chords for some of the Child Ballads is the Ballad Book of John Jacob Niles (widely available secondhand).
Some really lovely tunes there.

(I just saw that there are a few threads here on mudcat with really interesting discussions about JJN and his activity; off to read those now).


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 02:21 PM

I just sent Joe Offer a MIDI of the tune I remember for Lord Randall. It has the tune in the key of G and then in the key of D to suit the needs of various musicians.


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: GUEST,Brian Peters
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 02:56 PM

Sorry leeneia, I misunderstood your previous post. But the sad truth is I don't actually know how to make MIDI files in the first place. If I did I could certainly share the version of 'Lord Randall' that I just dug out of Bronson. A deceptively simple tune, but it works for me.


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Subject: RE: Is there a 'Childs' songbook
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 03:00 PM

My post of 10 Jul 07 - 04:01 PM has a clicky to a site with MIDI files.


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