BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 06 Sep 16 - 07:12 PM

The damage is incalculable. There is sufficient evidence to suggest that in recent years, Haaretz newspaper has caused more harm to the image of Israel than the combined efforts of our adversaries.

Although he passionately denies being post-Zionist, Amos imposed his radical left-wing ideology onto the newspaper which has now been transformed into a vehicle that provides much of the anti-Israeli sentiment and even anti-Semitic lies and distortions that are a boon to our adversaries.

It is difficult to comprehend the depths to which this once highly regarded newspaper has descended.

The Jerusalem Post

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Sep 16 - 05:18 PM

Jaysus Jim, don't mention Haaretz to booboo! Dontcha know that they're unreliable Jew-haters that must be cherrypicked! Fer chrissake Jim, play safe with booboo and stick with the neutrals such as the Jewish Chronicle, the Jerusalem Post, the Campaign Against Antisemitism and the Daily Mail! 😂😂😂

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Sep 16 - 03:01 PM

"You need to overcome your anti-Jewish bigotry."
And you need to learn the difference between the Jewish people and ISRAELI FASCISM
IN MORE DETAIL
AND AGAIN
Jim Carrroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 06 Sep 16 - 02:30 PM

You need more reliable sources....

You need to overcome your anti-Jewish bigotry.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Sep 16 - 01:41 PM

"Sod off, Keith. You haven't the faintest idea what antisemitism is."
Don't feed the troll Steve - Uncle Tone (above) was right
It's ****** up far too may threads
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Sep 16 - 01:35 PM

Steve, it is you who refuse to recognise antisemitism that is obvious to everyone else.
Everyone else is using definitions very like those of EUMC, which you reject.

Jim, staying or going, tell us why you made all those accusations against Ruth Smeeth.

And, why you can not support any of them with a single verifiable fact?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Sep 16 - 01:09 PM

Sod off, Keith. You haven't the faintest idea what antisemitism is.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Sep 16 - 12:59 PM

Who said I'm going Keith?
I'm stopping this dialogue with someone who has no concept of truth and self-respect; that's all.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Sep 16 - 12:48 PM

Steve, are you still denying the antisemitism in Shah's comments, even though they have been recognised by the NEC, the Party leadership, Corbyn and Shah herself?

Whatever definition of antisemitism you are working to is clearly inadequate Steve.
Blatant antisemitism is invisible to you!

Jim, before you go, tell us why you are making all these accusations against Ruth Smeeth.

Then tell us why you can not support any of them with a single verifiable fact.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Sep 16 - 12:02 PM

You need more reliable sources, boobs. She said Israel, not "Israel's Jews." Israel is a country containing Jews, Arabs, Christians and none of the above. And the "Campaign Against Antisemtism" [sic] along with the Chronicle are hardly setups that anyone other than confirmed delusionals would regard as neutral, let's face it. Finally, no sane person in the UK ever resorts to the Daily Mail. You and your sources. Tsk. 😂

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 06 Sep 16 - 11:02 AM

British lawmaker who shared anti-Semitic Facebook posts under police investigation

(JTA) — A British lawmaker who was suspended from the Labour party for anti-Semitic comments posted on social media is being investigated by police.

Naz Shah, who was readmitted to the party in July, could be charged with inciting religious hatred, an offense punishable by up to seven years in prison, the Daily Mail reported Monday.

Shah, 42, one of nine Muslims in Parliament, was suspended in May for sharing a post on Facebook suggesting Israel's Jews should be relocated to the US and tweeting the hashtag "#IsraelApartheid" and a quote saying, "Never forget that everything Hitler did in Germany was legal." Another post called on her friends to back a poll criticizing Israel.

The posts had appeared in early August, 2014, during the Gaza war between Israel and Hamas. She later apologized for the posts.

She was one of at least 20 Labour figures who had been either suspended or kicked out of the party this spring amid intense public scrutiny over the proliferation of anti-Semitic and vitriolic anti-Israel rhetoric after the 2014 election of Jeremy Corbyn to lead the party.

The West Yorkshire Police opened an investigation into the social media posts after receiving several complaints, the Mail reported. The investigation reportedly is in its final stages. The full investigation file will be handed over to the Crown Prosecution Service within days, according to the newspaper.

A spokesman for the British non-profit organization, Campaign Against Antisemtism, told the Mail that the Labour Party still has not come to grips with the problem of anti-Semitism in the party ranks.

"If it is true that there is an ongoing police investigation into anti-Semitic hate crime allegedly committed by Naz Shah, and Labour was aware of it but decided to end her suspension before the police investigation had concluded, then this is yet further evidence of the Party's abject failure to grasp its anti-Semitism problem," he said.

JTA

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Sep 16 - 11:01 AM

" juvenile flaming threads such as this one"
Uncle Tone
Apologies - won't happen again with this feller - not worth it
Welcome back
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 06 Sep 16 - 11:00 AM

Jewish British MP under police protection following anti-Semitic death threat

September 6, 2016

(JTA) – A Jewish member of the British Parliament was put under police protection following an anti-Semitic death threat on Facebook.

The message from July repeatedly called Ruth Smeeth a "Yid" and said "the gallows would be a fine and fitting place" for the Labour Party MP to "swing from," the Jewish Chronicle reported last week. It also expressed strong support for Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn, who is in an election battle to remain in his post.

Smeeth, 37, told the British media that she holds Corbyn personally responsible for the actions of his supporters.

"I expect Jeremy to show true leadership, which means calling out individuals at times by name to say what they are doing it is unacceptable," she told the British Sun newspaper last week. "He must stand up and say enough is enough, and he has done nowhere near enough yet."

Smeeth, who represents a district in Stoke-on-Trent, the largest city in western England's Staffordshire County, reportedly has received 25,000 abusive or anti-Semitic posts. She had panic buttons and CCTV surveillance cameras installed in her home, the Chronicle reported.

Corbyn, who has called Hezbollah and Hamas "friends," has been accused of fostering an atmosphere of anti-Semitism in the Labour Party.

According to the BBC, the threat to Smeeth was issued soon after she fled the launch of Labour's report into anti-Semitism in tears after being accused by an activist of colluding with the right-wing press.

JTA

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Uncle Tone
Date: 06 Sep 16 - 10:27 AM

From Steve: Yet oddly, Uncle, according to your posting record you rarely, if ever, went below the line as a participant (very sane of you!) Well I suppose you get the odd flame war "up there" as well, but Shirley not enough to get you to quit...😒

I confess to giving our Dick Miles a rough time, I think in response to what I saw then as a bit of pomposity, but we have since met eye-to- steely-eye, shaken hands and put it behind us.

Well, I have any road up.

Been busy elsewhere though.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Sep 16 - 09:43 AM

Jim, your first quote is of two journalists in the Irish Times.
Your second is from WRMA. Hardly reliable sources.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Sep 16 - 09:35 AM

Steve, I said that the Party did not believe Wadsworth's protestations and denials. That is why they suspended him.

I do not know the whole of the NEC.
"The NEC are appalled by recent cases of anti-Semitic abuse. "
That was a quote from a report on an NEC meeting.
"The entire NEC recognises the seriousness of this issue " was another from the same report.
http://labourlist.org/2016/05/alice-perrys-nec-report-corbyn-fighting-prejudice-and-listening-to-voters-online/

Jim, tell us why you are making all these accusations against Ruth Smeeth.

Then tell us why you can not support any of them with a single verifiable fact.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Sep 16 - 09:25 AM

Yet oddly, Uncle, according to your posting record you rarely, if ever, went below the line as a participant (very sane of you!) Well I suppose you get the odd flame war "up there" as well, but Shirley not enough to get you to quit...😒

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Uncle Tone
Date: 06 Sep 16 - 08:55 AM

I gave up on Mudcat three years ago because of juvenile flaming threads such as this one, especially when I found myself being drawn in and upsetting folks too (Sorry Dick). I was hoping that maybe things have improved.

Oh well. I suppose it just means ignoring certain contributors. Life's too short for bickering now.

Can't we play nicely?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Sep 16 - 08:32 AM

"A July 9 story in the Israeli newspaper Haaretz reported that Netanyahu used the epithet "self-hating Jews" to describe Axelrod and Emanuel, who are viewed by the Israeli government as the driving force behind Obama's push to pressure Israel to freeze settlement activity. Only when the quote was picked up by American newspapers did Netanyahu's spokesman, Mark Regev, issue a statement denying that the prime minister had used that term"
http://www.wrmea.org/2009-november/israel-and-judaism-attempts-to-silence-critics-of-israeli-policies-as-self-hating-jews-a-failing-strategy.html
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Sep 16 - 08:10 AM

Wadsworth is a long-time campaigner against racism and all forms of discrimination. When he made his remarks HE DID NOT KNOW THAT SHE WAS A JEW.

You don't believe him, do you, Keith? You cherrypick who to believe in Labour, don't you, Keith? How many times now have you supported the "whole of the NEC" when they've supposedly expressed how appalled they are at the antisemitic this, that and the other? Do you know who is on the "whole of the NEC," Keith? Why, there are a good few people on there who you wouldn't personally trust to tell you the time, yet, when you glean that they're allegedly saying things that suit your warped agenda, they're almost saintly in their honesty and truthfulness! And if you REALLY can't see that Bibi's singling out of the largest non-Jewish section of the Israeli people as a demographic problem is blatant racism, then I'm afraid you clearly haven't a clue as to the meaning of the word. Well, we know that anyway, I suppose.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Sep 16 - 08:09 AM

"The "regime" has not done that.
Yes it has Keith and you were given proof of that - from Haaretz and from Jews throughot the world
You lied - you lied about lying - now you are denying facts
"Israel has announced a $26 million investment in an anti-BDS campaign. Accusing its non-Jewish critics of anti-Semitism and its Jewish critics of being "self-hating Jews" is a central element of this campaign."

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Sep 16 - 07:37 AM

Jim,
the regime "have insulted all Jews who disagree with them as "self-hating" is made up shit Jim

it is "made up shit" Jim.
The "regime" has not done that.
There is a free press that disagrees with them all the time, and an opposition whose very purpose is to criticise the "regime."

Jim, tell us why you are making all these accusations against Ruth Smeeth.

Then tell us why you can not support any of them with a single verifiable fact.

It looks a lot like prejudice Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 06 Sep 16 - 07:31 AM

You are just running with the pack of antisemites

He's lead dog in the pack of sickos.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Sep 16 - 07:24 AM

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford - PM
"So, your assertion that the regime "have insulted all Jews who disagree with them as "self-hating" is made up shit Jim, like so many of your claims."
Somewhat stupid to lie about something you said on the same thread
Now will you piss off?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Sep 16 - 07:17 AM

"I have made no such accusation."
Oh, for Christ's sake!!!
do you wonder why nobody wants any part of you?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Sep 16 - 06:31 AM

apologise for accusing me of making pu the "Self hating Jews" statement

I have made no such accusation.

Smeeth attended the conference, as I sated - that for me, is enough to link her with the pro Israel campaign

So what? Like Steve she is pro-Israel.
She has family there. What is wrong with that?

She supported Netunyahu' racist slur of the Palestinian people

How do you know she supported it?
What was the racist slur anyway? Quote please.

She is also an employee of a group whose job it is to attract the elite to supporting the Israeli regime

Please justify that claim.

You have still not put up a shred of evidence to support one of your smears against her.
You are just running with the pack of antisemites with their campaign of hate against her as a Jew.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Sep 16 - 05:09 AM

"No you have not Jim."
Yest I have and I am not going to respond to your accusations until you begin to answer some of mine - and apologise for accusing me of making pu the "Self hating Jews" statement
Smeeth attended the conference, as I sated - that for me, is enough to link her with the pro Israel campaign
She supported Netunyahu' racist slur of the Palestinian people - which you claim is not racist.
She is also an employee of a group whose job it is to attract the elite to supporting the Israeli regime - enough evidence for me, without her support for Netunyahu's "NOT" racism.
"You have nothing on Smeeth. "
Yes it could - the group who took the action is an internal Quango, answerable to nobody but themselves.
He was not even given the right to reply - that is not how the Labour party operates - as you well know
If he, or anybody, is guilty of Antisemitism, they should be kicked out on their arses, but it has to be proved that they are.
Labour has acted impeccably throughout this affair and has gone by the book
The Tories j=have yet to even acknowledge the demand for an enquiry into Islamophobia and have appointed a racist as foreign secretary.
I know where my vote would go for a principled and responsible party
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Sep 16 - 03:47 AM

Have done Keith

No you have not Jim.
You have nothing on Smeeth. If you did you would be happy to repeat it.
Just lying smears against someone attacked for being Jewish Jim.
For shame!

Wadsworth was suspended from the Labour Party. That could not happen unless the leadership, the NEC and Corbyn believed it justified.

Netanyahu. I linked to the passage you cut and pasted.
It is about demographic trends in Israel. Nothing racist in it.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Sep 16 - 01:14 PM

It is virtually impossible to find out who makes up the 'constitutional unit' other than it was set up by the Labour 'old guard', has vehemently opposed Corbyn from day one, has attempted to block his re-election and objects to new members being allowed to join.
It seems to have no connection to the mainstream Labour Partyand in no way represent their view.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Sep 16 - 12:57 PM

"Why not tell us Jim?"
Have done Keith
Why not respond to your accusation that I made up "Self-hating Jews" and while you're at it, you might as well add Netanyahu's "non racism" - or is this something else you are going to do a runner from?
Can add as many of these as you wish each time you ask, if that's what you like.
"but the Party did not"
The Labour Party have not been given the opportunity to decide on Wadsworth's behaviour, just has Wadsworth has not been given the opportunity to state his case.
"I've now been expelled from the Labour party. I've received a letter from this very shadowy unit called the constitutional unit and they have summarily expelled me without any opportunity to give my side, just based on media reports."
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Sep 16 - 12:23 PM

She attended the conference and she made her position clear - you have what she said

You have not told us what she supposedly said or who claims to have heard her.
Why not tell us Jim?

Steve,
Netanyahu's remarks about the problem of Israeli Arabs is about as racist as it gets. Trust you not to see it.

I may not be the only one. Explain the racism, and what it has to do with Smeeth anyway.

Re Marc Wadsworth, you may believe his denials and protestations, but the Party did not. He was suspended.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Sep 16 - 05:44 AM

Cross posted ungrammatically with Jim there.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Sep 16 - 05:40 AM

If I wanted to distance myself I'd tell you out loud, twat. You do not get to read anything into the fact that I had yet to refer to her. Life's too short. Netanyahu's remarks about the problem of Israeli Arabs is about as racist as it gets. Trust you not to see it.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Sep 16 - 05:35 AM

Netanyahu's "not racism"

"Demgraphy" – a study of birth, deaths and disease

Netanyahu: Israel's Arabs Are the Real Demographic Threat
Israel's growing demographic problem is not because of Palestinians, but of Israeli Arabs, Finance Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said yesterday.
Gideon Alon and Aluf Benn Dec 18, 2003 12:00 AM
Israel's growing demographic problem is not because of Palestinians, but of Israeli Arabs, Finance Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said yesterday.
Speaking at the Herzliya Conference on security, Netanyahu said Israel had already freed itself from control of almost all Palestinian Arabs. He said he could not foresee a future in which "any sane Israeli" could try to make Palestinians either Israeli citizens or "enslaved subjects." The Palestinians would under all circumstances rule themselves and administer their own affairs, he said.
"If there is a demographic problem, and there is, it is with the Israeli Arabs who will remain Israeli citizens," he said. The Declaration of Independence said Israel should be a Jewish and democratic state, but to ensure the Jewish character was not engulfed by demography, it was necessary to ensure a Jewish majority, he said.
If Israel's Arabs become well integrated and reach 35-40 percent of the population, there will no longer be a Jewish state but a bi-national one, he said. If Arabs remain at 20 percent but relations are tense and violent, this will also harm the state's democratic fabric. "Therefore a policy is needed that will balance the two."
The economy is the single most important factor that will lead to Jews immigrating to Israel, he said. "I go mad when I see that because of low taxation in Moscow, there is now a capital flow there. If we want Jews to come here, we need a flourishing and dynamic economy. If we want Israeli Arabs to integrate, we need a flourishing and dynamic economy."
He said it was necessary to improve education standards, especially for Arab citizens. Netanyahu said that the "separation fence" would also help to prevent a "demographic spillover" of Palestinians from the territories.
Reactions to the speech were not slow in coming from Arab Knesset members and others. "Netnayahu's demographic time bomb is a stink bomb and a racist one," said Ahmed Tibi (Hadash). "The day is not far off when Netnayahu and his followers will set up roadblocks at the entrance to Arab villages to tie Arab women's tubes and spray them with anti-spermicide."
Azmi Bishara, of Balad (National Democratic Alliance) said: "Describing the original residents of this land as a demographic problem would be considered racism in any normal, or even abnormal, country."
Makhoul Issam Makhoul (Hadash) said: "A leader who considers 20 percent of the population of Israel to be a demographic threat and treats them as an existential problem, is himself a racist threat to democracy, sanity, and the rule of law - and he should be disposed of immediately for the good of both peoples."
Talab a-Sana (United Arab List) said: "How would Netanyahu react if someone in the West or the U.S. said that the reproduction rate of Haredi Jews was a demographic problem? Netnayahu has double standards."
Labor whip Dalia Itzik described Netanyahu as "a serial pyromaniac." She said: "He has already lit the flames between rich and poor, and now he is trying to do the same between Jews and Arabs."
Yossi Sarid, MK (Meretz), said: "It is amazing to see how great leaders can instantly be revealed as small racists. The Palestinian problem has not yet been solved in the territories and they are already trying to create another problem with Israeli Arabs... A thousand firemen will not be enough to put out the flames one frivolous man set alight."
Haaretz
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Sep 16 - 04:57 AM

"Heard by who saying exactly what Jim?"
Finished Keith
She attended the conference and she made her position clear - you have what she said
You want to pursue it find someone else - you are really not worth spending time on any more for the reasons I have stated.
Netanyahu dismissed the entire Palestinian people with one sentence - that, for me, is racism - obviously not for you.
My point in underlining Smeeth's position is to call into question her accusations of Antisemitism - there are many others you have supported who have done and said far worse.
We all realise that Netanyahu is one of your lily-whites, militaristic thug that he is.
I certainly have no intention of entering into an argument with you on the merits of a racist, war criminal - my stomach isn't up to another bout of your atrocity denying this morning.
You refuse to respond to your own accusations when thet are proved totally false, yet, should one of your heroes be maligned, you move heaven and earth to defend them.
Do you a deal - respond to your accusations that I made up "Self-Hating Jews" and I may, just may, tell you where to find Smeeth's statement.
Otherwise, go away - I'm no longer interested in wasting time proving wrong somebody who just walks away from their mistakes and dishonesty.
You demand attention from people you treat with contempt - not acceptable on a publicdebating forum.
Expect to be treated the way you treat others
Your behaviour has long exceeded the bounds of common decency.
Ever your "Muppet" friend
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Sep 16 - 04:23 AM

Jim,
Smeeth attended the Hertzliva Conference and was heard speaking in support of Benjamin Netanyahu's, "Palestinian citizens of Israel were a "demographic threat" claim.

Heard by who saying exactly what Jim?

Here is what Netanyahu actually said. There is no racism in it.
http://www.haaretz.com/netanyahu-israel-s-arabs-are-the-real-demographic-threat-1.109045

Steve, if you want to distance yourself from Jim's accusations, please do. So far you have shown nothing but support for his shit.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Sep 16 - 03:55 PM

"made-up shit."
Don't mind trying out new dishes, but that's taking it a bit far
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Sep 16 - 03:44 PM

It was delicious. I'd post the recipe but Keith would say it was made-up shit.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Sep 16 - 01:38 PM

"I dashed that off. I have to make a risotto from scratch."
Try making it from rice and whatever - scatch tends not to be very tasty - though I suppose it depends which bit you're scratching!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Sep 16 - 01:28 PM

"If any of that shit is true, produce something "
Have you looked on the site that has all those "experts" who said that "implant" thing about Pakistani males?
Or maybe the one where all those "many" NC members said they had serious concerns about Antisemitism in the Labour Party.
Or perhaps the one that gives numbers of Antisemites, or describes how that Antisemitism manifests itself.
Or maybe it's on the one which describes how the Irish hate Britain.
It could be on any of these - or the many, many more from which you gained your information and then refused to substantiate it.
I get a bit fed up with your challenges, and then, when it's produced, you walk away from it.
Not too long ago you accused me of "inventing" the Israeli "Self-hating Jew" accusation aimed at all Jews who opposed their policies.
I gave it to you and asked for an apology - you ignored all requests and refused even to acknowledge it.
Why on earth should I bother re-posting something you have already been given, only for you to ignore it?
Life really is too short to bother with people like you.
Tell you what - Keith - you start responding to the things we put up and acknowledge them, and stop calling us "liars" and of "making up" facts, and maybe, just maybe, you will be taken seriously.
Up till then, as far as I'm concerned, I will continue putting up information to back my beliefs
You want to challenge it - fine - you want to ignore it - fine.
But don't you dare demand something that has been put up, so you can just walk away from it.
A clue, if you like
Smeeth attended the Hertzliva Conference and was heard speaking in support of Benjamin Netanyahu's, "Palestinian citizens of Israel were a "demographic threat" claim.
She later said she didn't recall doing so.
That is from memory from all the links I have put up on the matter; it is the last concession you'll get from me.
You start responding to questions and I will - I'm sure the rest of us "Muppets" and "Ignoramuses" will do the same.
A debate forum is a two-way street.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Sep 16 - 01:18 PM

I dashed that off. I have to make a risotto from scratch.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Sep 16 - 01:15 PM

I dashed that off. I have a risotto to make from scratch.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Sep 16 - 12:55 PM

Ruth Smeeth is indeed an avid supporter of the Israeli regime and campaigns within an official body to get the boycott of Israeli goods lifted. I think she's severely deluded but she's entitled to her opinion. The old boy who left her floods of tears at the launch of the Chakrabarti report DID NOT KNOW THAT SHE WAS A JEW. His criticism as expressed and widely reported was absolutely nothing like a "traditional antisemitic slur." She accused him of being in Momentum (big deal anyway), which he denied. It could have been made about anyone in cahoots with the right-wing press, Jew or non-Jew. Plenty of non-Jews get involved in conspiracy theories, and HE DID NOT KNOW THAT SHE WAS A JEW. As a matter of fact he's been a prominent campIgner against racism and discrimination for decades and has condemned antisemitism. The abuse she has received online is vile. So, Keith, what should Jeremy do about it? Demand the identities of all 25000 abusers from their ISPs? Do you think they'd tell him? How do you know how many of them are really Labour members, or are you indulging in guesswork? Your Brexit friends' racist and xenophobic comments during the referendum campaign almost certainly provoked a significant increase in race attacks. Bit of a parallel there, I'd say. What are you going to do about Farage, Gove and Johnson then, Keith?   Indulge in silence and denial?

And one more thing, Keith. Twice now you have criticised "you two" for joining in attacks on her and smearing her. Well this post contains my very first mention of her, or indeed any allusion to her at all. You are a thoroughly dishonest man whose words should never be trusted.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Sep 16 - 11:39 AM

Smeeth has been subject to vile antisemitic abuse and intimidation.
You two joined in the attacks on her with accusations that you refuse to substantiate.

"Ms Smeeth is also a pro-Israeli activist with links to the American Security Services."
"She has been described as an anti-Palestinian racist."
"Both Ms Smeeth and Michael Foster are Pro-Israeli activists defending the war crimes of a terrorist State ."

If any of that shit is true, produce something to back it up, and not just from Electronic Intifada!!

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Sep 16 - 09:42 AM

So, Booboo, you're telling us to cherrypick Haaretz in order to spot the cherrypickers. You'd be bloody hilarious if you weren't so pathetic.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Sep 16 - 09:04 AM

By the way -Algemeiner is an extremist journal which has instigated witch-hunts against critics of Israeli policy
Quite a lot of people know that, as Michael Caine once nearly said
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 04 Sep 16 - 08:53 AM

While Haaretz does have some quality journalism it also has an editorial policy to give voice to a wide spectrum of opinion even when that opinion reaches the extremist nut job end of the spectrum. This is the tree which Israel haters cherry pick from and one of the reasons that it has an insignificant readership among average Israelis. The target audience for the English version is not the same as that for the Hebrew one and that is reflected in how, very often, facts are presented in ways that distort the truth of the story they are telling. See: Haaretz, Lost in Translation

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Sep 16 - 08:24 AM

Heheh. Bobad makes scraping the bottoms of barrels look like preparing a gourmet dinner. 😂

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Sep 16 - 08:15 AM

"Jeffrey Goldberg of The Atlantic on why he will stop reading Haaretz:"
So those running Haaretz are all "Self-hating Jews"?
That "Neo-conservative", Jeffry Goldberg doesn't like it is confirmation that' it's worth reading, as far as I'm concerned.
JEFFREY GOLDBERG
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 04 Sep 16 - 08:00 AM

Another zinger......recognize yourselves?

It's not just neo-Nazis. A wide variety of Israel-haters tokenize u [Haaretz] as the Jews in their corner.