BS: George Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 10:29 AM

"Another poor boy dead in the ground"

Well, Bobert, I think things are in pretty good shape, musically.

Take "The Lonesome Death Of Hattie Carroll", swap a few words around - [ same number of syllables: Zimmernam/Zantzinger, Hattie Carroll/Trayvon Martin & so on ] - and we're all ready to go.

Shows just how far "The New South" has come since 1963.



Ah, but you who philosophize disgrace
And criticize all fears
Bury the rag deep in your face
For now is the time for your tears.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 12:25 PM

SANFORD, Fla. (AP) -- A pathologist hired by the defense says George Zimmerman's account of how he fatally shot Trayvon Martin is consistent with the forensic evidence.

Dr. Vincent Di Maio testified Tuesday that the trajectory of the bullet and gun powder on Martin's body support Zimmerman's version that Martin was on top of him when Zimmerman fired his gun into Martin's chest.

Di Maio says the gun's muzzle was against Martin's clothing and anywhere from two to four inches from Martin's skin.


http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NEIGHBORHOOD_WATCH?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-07-09-10-15-15

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: kendall
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 12:47 PM

The only things I like about the south is a few people and the local music. The rest of it sucks.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 01:06 PM

Now wait a minute there, Capt'n...

We got cool cars, great food, warmer winters and pretty womenz here... Doesn't much make up for our 19th century thinking but thought it should get a mention...

I find it interesting that the defense was allowed to parade a bunch of Zimmerman's friends as witnesses who claimed that the voice on the recording was Zimmerman's but the prosecution wasn't allowed to offer "expert witnesses" that would have offered "voice recognition technology", as in science, that the voice wasn't Zimmerman's...

Southern style justice at work...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 01:19 PM

There were also witnesses who testified to the voice being Trayvon's.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 02:06 PM

(CBS/AP) SANFORD, Fla. -- A nationally renowned gunshot wound expert testified Tuesday that Trayvon Martin's gunshot wound was consistent with accused murderer George Zimmerman's story that the teen was on top of him and leaning over when he was shot.

George Zimmerman, a former neighborhood watch captain standing trial in the teen's shooting death, has said Martin attacked him and was on top of him just before the fatal gunshot. Prosecutors have argued Zimmerman profiled the teen and started the confrontation.

Taking the stand for the defense, Dr. Vincent Di Maio, a forensic pathologist, said that Martin's gunshot wound was consistent with the gun's muzzle being against his clothing, which would have been two to four inches away from his body when he was shot.

"If you lean over someone, you notice the clothing tends to fall away from the chest," Di Maio said. "If instead you're lying on your back and someone shoots you, the clothing is going to be against your chest."

Trayvon Martin's mother, Sybrina Fulton, left the courtroom as Di Maio testified. The jury saw graphic photos of Trayvon Martin's gunshot wounds in court.

Who was the aggressor in the Feb. 26, 2012 altercation in the Sanford, Fla., gated community has been a key issue in Zimmerman's second-degree murder trial, which is in its eleventh day of testimony.

Di Maio said that Trayvon Martin would have been alive for about one to three minutes following the gunshot wound, but would have been able to move and speak for at least ten to fifteen seconds.

The testimony was a contrast to the remarks of a medical examiner who conducted Martin's autopsy, who said that the teen could have been alive for up to ten minutes after the gunshot. Dr. Shiping Bao also said he didn't believe Martin would have been able to move after receiving the shot.

Prosecutors have said that George Zimmerman told investigators he moved Martin's arms away from his body after the gunshot, although Martin was found with his arms tucked beneath his chest. Answering a question from defense attorney Don West, Di Maio said that someone may be able to move their arms after receiving a similar gunshot.

Zimmerman's injuries indicate "you've had severe force, it's not just like you bumped your head or something like that," Di Maio said.

Zimmerman's injuries were consistent with having his head hit against concrete more than once, Di Maio said. The former neighborhood watch captain said the teen smashed his head into a sidewalk several times before he claimed he acted in self-defense.

The testimony was a contrast to another medical examiner, Dr. Valerie Rao, who testified for prosecutors that Zimmerman had "insignificant" injuries that didn't appear to result from multiple impacts against concrete.

Pointing to photos of Zimmerman's injures, Di Maio also said Zimmerman's nose may have been fractured, an injury he said was consistent with being punched in the nose, as Zimmerman said Martin did.

Di Maio also said it's possible to receive trauma without visible wounds. "You can get severe trauma to the head without external injuries, actually," Di Maio said.

Di Maio also explained that if clothes taken into evidence are wet and packaged in plastic bags, and not paper bags, it can ruin the samples since "bacteria multiplies and you get mold and it stinks to high heaven." Defense attorneys believe DNA evidence found on Martin's hooded sweatshirt and undershirt was degraded since the clothing wasn't packaged properly.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 02:07 PM

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57592866-504083/george-zimmerman-trial-trayvon-martin-was-on-top-of-zimmerman-when-teen-w

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 02:17 PM

A pathologist hired by the defense says George Zimmerman's account of how he fatally shot Trayvon Martin is consistent with the forensic evidence.

Gee, BullshitBruce, ya think a hired gun paid by the defense would say anything else?

Horseshit, again.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 02:24 PM

Damn, BullshitBruce- your expert Di Maio is a real wonder! A fractured nise may be consistent with being punched in the nose! DAMN! Whooda Thunkit?

As for the rest of the might be, could be, its possible, & related nonsensical speculation seems Di Maio has pretty much adopted the Beardy horseshit line.

You two working together?

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 02:29 PM

So, Greggie boy, you think Bobert is full of shit for complaining about the prosecution expert being disallowed? After all, he would just say what the Prosecution wanted, and not provide any evidence.

When you add some evidence to your opinions you have a right to comment- I have seen no support for your comments other than attacks on people without basis. If you are so sure that Zimmerman is innocent that you want him lynched, rather than getting a fair trial, like Bobert has stated, maybe you better get your sheets back on and head down to Florida.

I am still working on that duct-tape...

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 02:32 PM

Wiki.
Dr. Vincent J. M. Di Maio is an American pathologist and a nationally renowned expert on the subject of gunshot wounds.[1][2] Di Maio is a board-certified anatomical, clinical and forensic pathologist, and a private forensic pathology consultant.[3] He attended St. John's University and the State University of New York (SUNY), and received postgraduate training at Duke University, SUNY, and the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner of Maryland.[4]
Di Maio is a veteran of the U.S. Army Medical Corps, and served as chief medical examiner of San Antonio, Texas until 2006, when he retired; Di Maio has more than 40 years of experience as a forensic pathologist.[4][5] He has been editor-in-chief of the Journal of Forensic Medicine and Pathology, and a professor of the Department of Pathology at the University of Texas Health Science Center at San Antonio.[4] Di Maio is a fellow of the National Association of Medical Examiners (NAME) and the American Academy of Forensic Sciences, and in 2011 he was appointed to the Texas Forensic Science Commission by Governor Rick Perry.[3][6]
Di Maio has authored or co-authored four books and numerous articles related to forensic pathology, and has won several awards for his work, including the Outstanding Service Award from the National Association of Medical Examiners.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 02:36 PM

But Greggie boy and Bobert DON'T want experts, or evidence, or even the truth-

THEY want to string up that Hispanic "cracker" regardless of the evidence.


Sounds a lot like the "Old South" is alive and well in Bobert and Greggie boy - String them up, regardless of their guilt.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 02:58 PM

Dr. Vincent J. M. Di Maio is an American pathologist and a nationally renowned expert

AND Dr. Di Maio is being paid to get Zimmerman off.

But he sure was on point about a punch to tthe nose possibly being the cause of a broken nose - even tho tha , and most of the rest of his "testimony" has nothing to do with his supposed expertise on gunshot wounds.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 03:00 PM

Beardie, that duct tape would have a better application in being applied to stem the tsunami of your postarrhoea.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 03:02 PM

And the prosecution is being paid to convict Zimmerman- so the whole fucking trial is meaningless, according to you.

Bobert has stated the only fair trial will be in Zimmerman is convicted, You have denied any value to any evidence presented by the defense ( and prosecution!)

So what is the difference between you two and the Klansmen who "knew" the blacks they strung up were guilty????

Not a damn bit, as far as I can see.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 03:23 PM

So what is the difference between you two and the Klansmen who "knew" the blacks they strung up were guilty???? Not a damn bit, as far as I can see.

And that, BullshitBruce, clearly delimits the extent of your vision. Or should I say, your delusion?

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 03:28 PM

Attack me all you want

++I++ didn't say that "Black, and a Democrat" was the same as "dumb Ni**er"- YOU did, Greggie boy.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 03:45 PM

You guys can't miss this article:

http://m.guardiannews.com/commentisfree/2013/jul/07/george-zimmerman-trial-trayv

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 05:02 PM

Good article, GUEST...

Yes, a black family is far less likely to see justice than a white family... That is a reality...

As for the forensics??? I haven't heard anything that was presented by the prosecution... Maybe someone else has but it seems that the prosecution should have had their guy in their corner... They had to know that th4e defense planned on using a hired gun "expert witness"... That's been one of my beefs with this trial... Seems like the state is going thru the motions but not much more...

There will be no justice here, people... None...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 06:07 PM

A lot of hypotheticals in here..very little 'evidence', withheld or supporting the actual criminal case.
The more I hear of the actual trial, and not the commentaries about 'racism', the more I'm inclined to think it will not take the jury very long to reach a decision.

That being said, I don't think I'm inclined to try the case here, nor demonstrate, or make up evidence to support a bias.

You can do that!...and have...and it is stupid, silly, and destructive, and only demonstrates how reverse discrimination is still discrimination, still racism, and still exactly what some of you accuse others of doing, while claiming some sort of 'righteous blathering' all in the name of 'justice'.

Frankly, I thought, just based on the presentation in court, (not here), that the prosecution did a great job of proving Zimmerman's case!

Scream and bitch all you want, but I think Zimmerman walks.
It's the press that got everyone worked up, trying to sensationalize it into something it's not.
..and that being said, I'm still not getting sucked into it.

See ya'!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 06:16 PM

Ain't attackin' YOU, BullshitBruce - only the obvious horseshit that you post.

Please pay attention.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 06:37 PM

Greg: "Please pay attention."

Maybe he is, and that's why he's not responding to your posts!

GfS

P.S. In fact, I wasn't going to either..but I thought a 'clue' may be helpful!
But, out of curiosity..what feels better, your tongue or your balls?

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 07:33 PM

"Hired gun" expert witnesses are a problem for justice. This is why (and I never thought I'd have a good word to say for the Woolf "reforms") the new UK Common Procedural Rules encourage (and in some cases require) a single agreed expert whose duty is to the court.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 01:03 AM

Agreed Richard. Like this expert:

http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/zimmerman-case-dr-hirotaka-nakasone-fbi-and

Why didn't the judge allow the tape to be heard in court and then admit the testimony of someone with the expertise to establish that the science simply isn't there to properly identify the screams? Then the judge could have disallowed all biased testimony as to whose voice it was.

Think about it. Here, sitting in the courtroom you have two parents who list their 17 year old son. Every night they go home to their tv and listen to all the talking heads say over and over how the screams on the are the "most crucial piece of evidence." Believing their son was the victim, It had to be painful enough for them to have to defend that the screaming for help was their son, for Trayvon's father to be second guessed in court because he told police he didn't know whether it was Trayvon's voice (it was so wrong for police to deal with a parent in shock this way), but then a veritable troupe of Zimmerman supporters saying, "Yes, that's Georgie" etc. All that could have been avoided. All of was useless testimony, except for the defense who used it to their advantage by keeping the jury focused on the last 3 seconds of the encounter instead of the "most crucial" minutes that led up to it. Not to mention the days, weeks, months, and years that led up to it in the life of George Zimmerman. The following article gives insight into how he eventually killed somebody:

http://www.tampabay.com/news/humaninterest/trayvon-martins-killing-shatters-safe

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 01:07 AM

Sorry for all the typos. I got this tiny little screen and this tiny little keyboard, it's late and I'm tired :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 01:58 AM

I think the press has exploited this trial, and now it's gotten too hard to get the genie back into the bottle.
It seems no matter what evidence is produced, people have made up their minds, both sides, on their own verdict. the prosecution has presented an anemic case, and in fact helped the defense,
You can say that Zimmerman was a cold blooded killer, or Martin was the aggressor, but if you're locked into whatever you WANT the verdict to be, you're not into justice, or finding out what really happened...you just want your verdict to fill the appetite for your personal biases, and truth to tell, whatever the verdict is, I doubt very much that your appetite will be satisfied.
My own opinion is that this was completely avoidable, but it happened because of two morons, trying to prove something, that was out of their league...and that goes for Martin, too.
I do think, that if Martin's cell phone conversations were released, it might be a surprise for the prosecution, that he bragged to his girlfriend, about confronting Zimmerman....however, that is only speculation, but nonetheless a possibility. Both of them misread each other, both of them re-acted out of their 'misreadings' Zimmerman could have watched Martin from his car...and a guy following you from behind was no excuse for Martin to start punching him out. there doesn't seem to be much question in regards to Zimmerman being on the bottom, of the altercation. Cops arrived, and found his back wet and with grass clipping on it. Zimmerman's account matches the forensics expert, as to who was where, when the gun was fired...-plus the eyewitness seems to corroborate Zimmerman's account. I think the press has done everyone a disservice, in their coverage of the story. it's been over politicized, and treated like a major sports event.
I'm not going to argue or debate the opinion...just looking at it, the way it is unfolding. If Zimmerman is acquitted, I really hope there is no violent riots or demonstrations...and if there are, I hope and pray, that NONE of you participate. It would be even more stupidity than the original event. If Zimmerman is convicted, the only lesson that comes out of it, is, don't be a wannabe cop, with a loaded gun...your emotions may not be up to the reality!

..and judging from the angst about it, they're not!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 09:10 AM

There is no justice here, GfinS...

You seem to lose sight of the facts... This is a Southern court where black people have traditionally gotten screwed... This is a Southern judge who, like most Southern judges, is partisan... This judge has already rigged this trial's outcome and guess what???

Ya' give???

Treyvon Martin doesn't get an appeal...

As for the media??? They are complicit, too... Seems that all the commentators are saying "It's going to be difficult to get a prosecution"... What??? You don't think the jury pool has heard those comments??? Of course they have... That is called poisoning the jury pool... The stuff on Martin's phone should not be admissible... In releasing it that also poisons the jury pool...

This is O.J. all over except worse because is is exposing something that we Southerners have known for years and that is white people in the South still harbor racist feelings toward black people...

And in the words of the late Walter Cronkite, "And that's the way it is..."

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 09:14 AM

Guest, I think you're making some pretty powerful inferences there.

Zimmerman's background shows a lack of good judgement and a distorted sense of threat or danger. He also clearly indicated that he REALLY did not want the kid to get away. Therefore, the most plausible theory was the gun came out in an attempt to detain the "suspect."

Look, in my neck of the woods, any record of having attempted to assault a police officer and/or domestic incident would have resulted in a flat denial of a concealed weapons permit and for good reason! I'm telling you, that gun came out, and when calls for help (from either one, doesn't matter) weren't answered, Trayvon Martin attempted to defend himself (which ever one ended up on the top or bottom, again doesn't matter), Zimmerman simply shot him. End of story.

It really doesn't take a genius to figure this one out.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 10:26 AM

And btw, Zimmerman has a psychiatric diagnosis of adult ADHD. Here are the the symptoms:

Mental Disorganization
Recklessness
Marital Difficulties
Extreme Distractibility
Poor Listening Skills
Extreme Restlessness

In addition, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder often leads to problems controlling emotions. Many people with adult ADHD are quick to explode over minor issues. Often, adults with ADHD feel as if they have absolutely no control over their emotions. Many times, their anger fades as quickly as it flared, long before the people who dealt with the outburst have gotten over the incident (ie: Trayvon Martin).

4% of the population are diagnosed with adult ADHD. It is an indicator of a troubled individual with behavioral issues, someone who shouldn't have a gun. Zimmerman probably got this diagnosis as a result of one of the unfortunate incidents in his background. And people should also realize that medications that may be prescribed do not cure disorders, they are an attempt to manage symptoms. Additionally, many times the cure is worse than the disease.

Zimmerman was taking Adderall, often called prescription speed. It has a full slate of physical and mental side effects comparable to methyl amphetamine and cocaine. And one of them is clearly aggression! It's one of the great myths and true hypocrisies of American society, aided by drug war propaganda, that a little marijuana is dangerous while very dangerous prescription drugs are not. My son smoked marijuana as a teenager and it made him very non-aggressive. That is effect it has on most people.

So marijuana does not make people aggressive and people who believe it does have never touched it and are informed by "Reefer Madness." But speed, on the other hand, sure does make people very aggressive. Anyone but a moron knows that. Big Pharma in bed with the psychiatric establishment will do anything to make money regardless of the consequences to individuals and society. Anyone but a moron knows that too.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 10:39 AM

I've done my share of both pot and martial arts and can tell you that the last thing in the world you want to do when you have a buzz on is get into a fight...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 11:01 AM

Dream on. You guys are ignoring the circumstances that led to him being shot, and trying to make it solely a case of him being shot, because Martin was black. Do you think Zimmerman would have shot him, if Martin wasn't on top of him, beating him up??? Yes, I agree that it was a lack of good judgement..on both of their parts. Yes, it would have never happened, if Zimmerman had remained in his car, against the advice of the officer who advised him to stay in his car, BUT, Zimmerman getting out of his car, against that advice, was in itself NOT breaking a law. It was dumb, yes, and he followed Martin, which eventually led to him being assaulted by Martin, according to the evidence...but following a person, does NOT give permission, common sense, or reason, for that person to turn around and accost the guy following you...and technically, and legally, Martin was the first to break the law, by doing so. It was a stupid act of bravado, as was Zimmerman trying to take the law in his own hands. IT WAS ALL STUPID!

Guest: "He also clearly indicated that he REALLY did not want the kid to get away. Therefore, the most plausible theory was the gun came out in an attempt to detain the "suspect."

Your 'logic' is based on a 'theory'(your words) and a supposition, that he shot him because, 'he REALLY did not want the kid to get away.'...while ignoring the fact, supported by witnesses, and the evidence, by witnesses AND the officers arriving at the scene(Zimmerman' back was wet, had grass on the back, which got there by being UNDER Martin)..I don't think not letting the 'kid get away' was the determining factor, at that point, do you???

Bobert: "It's going to be difficult to get a prosecution"... What???"

Originally they weren't even going to charge him, because it was obvious TO THEM that it was self defense...it went to court because of the political fallout, trying to appease guys like you!

Bobert: "The stuff on Martin's phone should not be admissible..."

And why not? If it was on, while the crime was being committed, why not? You'd be arguing the other way, if it had picked up Zimmerman saying, "You damn nigger, I'm going to shoot you, just for the fuck of it!".....but it didn't, it had what it had, and it didn't support YOUR 'cause', regardless that it was considered an 'ear witness'...it just didn't have what YOU wanted on it..

Guest: "Zimmerman's background shows a lack of good judgement and a distorted sense of threat or danger."

Which is completely irrelevant LEGALLY, to what happened in those moments, of the actual crime.

The FACT remains, that the prosecution didn't have much to work with, to prove that Zimmerman is guilty, BEYOND a shadow of a doubt, even on a foggy day...and in THIS country(or what's left of it), you are innocent, unless PROVEN guilty...and that hasn't happened,(yet).

Also, you talk about the jury pool being influenced by the media..well I certainly hope they weren't listening or watching MSNBC, who doctored the tapes, editing them, to make it sound like, Zimmerman only shot him, because he was black, and George was a racist. You did know about that, didn't you??..or are YOU the one being poisoned by the press releases, and still hung over from it?!?!

now you may not like it, neither do I, but the media HAS fanned this up, to bolster the political prejudices of both sides...and that IS a fact...I'm not going to give them the satisfaction of playing their divisive game. You can..and are..YOUR apologetic discrimination, has allowed you to be played like a fiddle...and you're playing THEIR tune!!!

Fact is, this was a needless, stupid chain of bad judgements, that led to a dead kid, beat up wannabe, and gas thrown on the biases of a nation, already willfully divided, by the media, exploiting hatred.

Don't play...don't play their game....don't be their pawn...be above their manipulations of people's negative emotions.
Personally, if truth be known, you had more remorse for your cat that dies, than Martin. Martin only gives you a soap box..get off it!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 11:08 AM

""But Greggie boy and Bobert DON'T want experts, or evidence, or even the truth- ""

Come off it Bruce, FFS!

They just want ALL the experts, ALL the evidence, and the WHOLE trurh.

Not just what will acquit a man who:-

1. Ignored advice to leave the police to do their job.
2. Racially profiled and confronted a subject.
3. Shot an unarmed schoolboy.
4. Went to work with a loaded gun which, it has been said, is against neighbourhood watch policy.

You talk of lynchings! Just what IS your interest in seeing Zimmerman acquitted? Do black kids deserve execution for walking through a gated community?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 11:29 AM

""Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch volunteer, had called police to report a suspicious person when he spotted Martin. In the videotape, he walked officials through what happened next as he approached Martin.

"I reached for my pocket, and I was looking for my phone, and he just punched me in the nose.""

So, the defence claim that Martin should have known that George was reaching for a phone, and not a gun? As it turned out, that wasn't so far fetched, was it?

If I were black, in Florida, I certainly wouldn't take a chance on that. Faced with the likelihood of being shot in the back if I turned and ran, I too would have smacked him in the jaw, and made every effort to prevent him reaching into his pocket.

So would anybody else with half a brain. Unfortunately for Martin, he was considerably outweighed and unable to control Zimmerman, and lost his life as a result.

Ironically, if he had turned and run, Zimmerman would have paid the penalty he deserves. An entry wound in the back is just so difficult to explain.

Instead, the local law enforcement and Zimmerman's cracker friends have got their story together and with the judge sleeping through the trial, the neighbourhood hero will walk free. After all, it's only another dead n****r.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 11:37 AM

Once again, Don T is proud to show how stupid he is!

Don T:

"Not just what will acquit a man who:-

"1. Ignored advice to leave the police to do their job."

    Not Illegal..bad judgement, but bot illegal

"2. Racially profiled and confronted a subject."

That is a jump to conclusions,,AND not illegal!

"3. Shot an unarmed schoolboy."

A. He wasn't in school, so play the sympathetic game... B..and your little unarmed 'schoolboy', was six inches taller than Zimmerman, on top of him beating the crap out of him..THAT IS WHAT THE TRIAL IS ABOUT...the question of self defense or not!

4. Went to work with a loaded gun which, it has been said, is against neighbourhood watch policy.

'It has been said'???? Huh??? Against 'neighbourhood watch policy' is not in itself a crime.

EVERYTHING you posted has very little to do with anything other than circumstantial hearsay..adjectives. A trial is supposed to judge the accounts of witnesses, to determine if the accused is guilty as charged. Eulogies and platitudes are not evidence to the facts. The fact that you bring that up in here, is evidence of something else...but that's another story....

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 11:44 AM

Don T: "Ironically, if he had turned and run, Zimmerman would have paid the penalty he deserves. An entry wound in the back is just so difficult to explain."

We cross posted..I didn't think you were going to get any sillier..but you did!

You assume that Zimmerman would have shot him in the back, running away??? That's quite a jump, chump...and he is not being charge with that...BECAUSE IT DIDN'T HAPPEN ANYWHERE BUT IN YOUR MIND!

Jeezus peezus! How much more idiotic does it get??

Oh my God, I shouldn't have asked....you'll tell me!

Hey, I'm only stating what the case has shown. I don't have a pig in this race..you guys do...so ham it up!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 12:07 PM

True :-)

But I have to say, it could have been worse. If George Zimmerman had been shot and killed with his own gun in the struggle, Trayvon Martin would have been arrested and held until trial, sold out by a court appointed attorney, have already been convicted and would be sitting in a prison cell by now. Because even as the victim, we see an overriding assumption of black male criminality at work here. Imagine if it had turned out another way.

Because a disturbed individual was running around with a loaded gun and an itchy trigger finger, Trayvon Martin's fate was sealed either way. I believe that. When I heard Zimmerman say in an interview with Sean Hannity that it was God's will that he shot Trayvon Martin, I thought I was going to be sick. No remorse. Instead, he attributed his own will to God. Now that's delusional.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 12:45 PM

Do black kids deserve execution for walking through a gated community?

Damn right they do, Don! Now you're thinkin' like a Floridian and like Bullshit Bruce! A long time comin' but you've finally turned the corner.

;>)

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 12:58 PM

GfS:   "Do you think Zimmerman would have shot him, if Martin wasn't on top of him, beating him up???"

Yes!

Simple fact is that Zimmerman wanted to shoot someone. A black teenager in a hoody walking home after buying a bag of candy at the local 7-11?

Perfect target!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 01:00 PM

GfinS,

Your insistence on defending Zimmerman's every little screw up borders on racism...

Like Don T said... I want justice and I want the truth and we ain't getting either here... We're getting Southern style racist justice that gives the defense everything and and anything it wants and fucks with the prosecutors, who BTW, ain't all that great to begin with...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 01:19 PM

I heard that there were recordings available of someone's cries for help. That Zimmerman's friends said it was Zimmerman and Martin's family members said it was Martin.

The suggestion was made that they submit the recordings for scientific voice analysis, which would be the logical, intelligent thing to do.

But the judge would not allow it to be put in evidence.

Is this, indeed, true?

And if true--why would the judge disallow it?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 01:35 PM

A voice recognition expert was called by the State and did testify.
"Trigger happy"
A fair description of a person who waits until he has been beaten up and then fires a single shot?

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 01:47 PM

Trigger happy? You bet, Keith - deadly force applied unnecessarily. Zimmerman's life was never in immediate danger. See commentary by olddude, et al.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 01:57 PM

"A voice recognition expert was called by the State and did testify."

Not according to anything I've read or heard. Just the opposite.

Can you document that?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 02:20 PM

Guest, I never said that Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin because he was black nor because he didn't want him to get away. There was a struggle but it's a fact that Zimmerman was the true instigator...

Race enters into this case in two ways. 1.) Zimmerman racially profiled the kid. Deny it if you want but it's there. 2.) How race generally and predictably plays out in the justice system, especially in the South, is the second thing to consider. Deny it if you want but it's there.

Have you ever had a gun pointed at you? Trust me, until you do, you don't how you might react. There are people who do not readily submit to a stranger attempting to detain them at gunpoint without the legal authority to do so. I am of course arguing my own theory.

So you're saying that an unarmed individual pursued by a gunman has no right to defend himself. Meanwhile, an armed pursuer has the right to "defend" himself against an unarmed individual's attempts to do the same - with lethal force.

Well ok, it's a little twisted, but sure, why not? Hey, your guy's about to walk. You want me to run out and grab some beers so we can celebrate? I'll be right back :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 02:41 PM

CBS News july 1 2013.

George Zimmerman trial: Voice expert testifies during second week of testimony

State witness Dr. Hirotaka Nakasone, a senior voice recognition scientist with the FBI, testifies in the George Zimmerman trial in Seminole circuit court, July 1, 2013 in Sanford, Florida. / Photo by Joe Burbank-Pool/Getty Images
(CBS/AP) It's not possible to scientifically identify who is screaming in the background of a neighbor's 911 call placed to dispatchers the night of the fatal confrontation between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin, an FBI audio expert testified at Zimmerman's murder trial Monday. However, a person who is familiar with Zimmerman's voice or Martin's voice might have a better chance of identifying it, according to the expert.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 02:46 PM

The judge would NOT allow the prosecution to have testimony of either of the two "expert witnesses" that were trained in voice recognition technology... Both, BTW, had previously said that whereas they could not verify the voice was Martin's that they were sure it wasn't Zimmerman's...

That ruling came before the start of the trial and has been 9mm slug to the chest of the prosecution... That's one reason why I say this trial is rigged to get Zimmerman off...

One needs to keep in mind the reality that the folks in Florida, especially those sending in big $$$ for Zimmerman's defense, didn't give a flying fig that Martin had been murdered...

"Another poor boy dead and in the ground" (Blind Lemon Jefferson) is fine with them...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: pdq
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 03:10 PM

Dr. Hirotaka Nakasone, a senior voice recognition scientist with the FBI, testified that there were just over 2 seconds of un-interruped screams and that the recording was of very poor quality.

He said the standard for the FBI is 20 seconds of good quality recording involving 16 clearly-spoken words. Still, that would not be absolute enough to decide a man's guilt in a murder case.

The judge correctly decided that all the "voice identification" experts (the Defence has three more themselves) would not be allowed in the actual trial, for obvious reasons. The testimony was in the pre-trial hearings, although Nakasone was called back and gave his opinion(s).

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 03:20 PM

Well, if the recording was of such poor recognition then why did the judge allow a parade of Zimmerman worshipers to testify for the defense...

And why were the two "expert witnesses" that the prosecution lined up not allowed to testify...

That's bullshit, pdq... I've got friends who I haven't spoken with in years and when either I call them or they call me we know each other by our voices with a simple, "Hello"... This Dr. Nakasone sounds like another Zimmerman worshiper...

This trial is as bogus as a $3 bill... Only the white Republicans here don't see it that way...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 03:31 PM

Sorry, Bobert.

If a black man were convicted on as little evidence as has been presented, you would be ( rightfully) screaming about the rush to judgement.

There were two prosecution experts and three defense experts who were ready to testify- the judge determined that NONE ( emphasis, not shouting) could accurately determine who it was screaming, and presented testimony from one expert to that effect, letting the jury know that someone who knew the screamer might be able to tell. It is up to the jury as to whether the cries are believed to be from Martin or Zimmerman- NOT ( emphasis) you.

You have wanted this whole trial to be overturned, advocating illegal actions by the prosecution that would throw it out. You have stated that the only "fair" verdict would be conviction of Zimmerman, regardless of the evidence and his guilt.
Please tell me how, other than the color of the people you hate, you are any different from those Klansmen that lynched blacks they "knew' were guilty? Why have a trial, if you will only accept your predetermined result?

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 03:32 PM

600