BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?

Subject: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 11:11 AM

Me and Mrs G went to a local pub the other night. One we have not been in for years. Had two pints of very good Black Sheep thank you but was aked to remove my hat before I was served them.

Now, I'm not one for wearing the hat inside and would have removed it when seated anyway. But while at the bar, fidling in pockets for money and carrying drinks back where is the best place to keep your hat? On your head of course! I was not unduly worried but asked why. I was told it was policy not to serve people wearing hats. Did not consider it till later. The first question is - why is it policy?

It was a pale coloured Tilley, out of interest, so the other thing that sprang to mind was if the England cricket team turned up would they have not served them? Other things on reflection were: If members of any of the religious sects that keep their heads covered asked for a drink, would they have been refused? Should I go back with a Jewish friend and see? I wear hats almost all the time now, should I be worried? But I still keep coming back to same question - what the bloody hell does it matter?

I'm sure someone here will know. Or make it up. Or flame me...

Cheers

:D (tG)

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 11:16 AM

They don't want you pouring the beer into your hat and sneaking off with their brewing secrets.

Out here in The West most men who wear hats leave them on inside, except in church or law courts or in bed. It's odd, but most women seem to object to men who wear hats, boots, and spurs to bed, especially if their man has been working with cattle or out in the corral.

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 11:22 AM

Dave - I also tend to wear hats all the time and have had the same thing in some pubs ! I think that IF the pubs have CCTV security cameras , they are concerned that they wont be able to identify someone who causes trouble . There was a case few weeks back where a lady in her seventies was refused service til she removed her hat !!

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: Rasener
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 11:36 AM

They want to check out the theory that only people with bald heads wear hats.

I agree with LF, but am sure its aimed at the young ens, so that they can detect the little buggers. Which makes me wonder why they would want to do that to Leadfingers & D (tG). Could it be

a. They look like criminals
b. They wanted to see if they had a bald head
c. Having set the precident for the youngsters, they are honour bound to apply it to all ages (inclusion and equal rights)

So discuss :-)

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: SINSULL
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 11:56 AM

My bank has a new sign - Please remove hats, hoods, and sunglasses before entering the bank. They were robbed and couldn't ID the culprit.

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 11:58 AM

Big Brother is watching you!
G.

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 11:59 AM

In a few parts of the US, hats are used as a gang insignia, and are part of the whole infantile gang bit about "showing colo(u)rs." Since prohibiting the display of "colours" (and any other gang insignia) often results in "problems" with the gangs, a few places resort to prohibiting "items of clothing that might be used as gang insignia" for all patrons. A stepson was occasionally refused admittance to a few places because of his "dew-rag"¹, which he wore to keep the drippings out of his eyes while working as a framing carpenter, but is an "item of clothing" favored by some (especially biker) gangs.

¹ dew-rag, sometimes do-rag, (occasionally called an "Aunt Jemima" esp. by ethnic gang members,) is simply a handkerchief (large) tied on the head to keep the hair (and sweat) in place. The term is most often used when the "tail" of the 'chief covers the top of the hair, but sometimes is applied when it's rolled into a band across the forehead above the eyes.

While I don't know that this would be a likely reason for prohibiting hats of more general kind, especially outside a few of our infested US cities, it's a possibility to be considered almost anywhere.

Prohibiting all headwear could be the cop-out alternative to confronting someone about possible "associations."

Other reasons speculated probably are equally likely.

John

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: GUEST,Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 11:59 AM

Hats are popular places to hide bombs, particularly in the UK. In most locales terrorists prefer to strap their bombs to their bodies, but UK terrorists have found that doing so causes chafing, resulting in uncomfortable rashes. Something to do with the climate, no doubt.

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: number 6
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 12:44 PM

"In a few parts of the US, hats are used as a gang insignia, and are part of the whole infantile gang bit about "showing colo(u)rs."

Well ... in my part of Canada, Tilley hats are used as a gang insignia ... the old fart gang which I'm a charter member of as we are the only ones that wear Tilleys ... and yes, we don't take them off when we associate in a pub, for the very reason Dave mentioned ... where would we put it.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 12:55 PM

I'm there, sIx! Can I be a member of your gang?

:D (tG)

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: r.padgett
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 01:28 PM

If I might be permitted to widen this to caps ~ as in flat caps I am appalled that new caps (UK) have suddenly grown long peaks the same length as the baseball caps

Frankly that is a move in the wrong direction, flat caps should fit neatly on the head to cover the bald patch or whatever as heat is lost greatly from the head

I can understand the request to remove the Hat with a wide peak, but I also would tend to ask why?

And whether I look as if I pose a threat to customers ~ if the answer is affirmative or rude I would tell them to stuff their drinks!

Ray

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 01:35 PM

I wear my fedora all the time, and other than people who don't know any better cracking silly Indiana Jones jokes (My hat doesn't look anything like his...) I never get any hassle....

Actually, it was funny.... The other day I wandered into my local in my hat with my British MK VII bag across my chest, and one of our new waitresses eventually came in to the room where I was sitting.... sat not far away, facing me until she caught my eye.... and blinked very slowly, revealing "LOVE" written in eye liner on her right eyelid, and "YOU" on her left.... I paused... looked again... and stammered... "uhh... give us.... reason to....date this find as we have...."

But the bell didn't ring to end class.... Heh But it sure confused the hell outa the people I was with ;-)

So, I guess if you got it in the first place, and are around fun, interesting, creative people, a hat can serve to enhance your cool.....

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 01:45 PM

That's pretty cool about the "love you" eyelids, Clinton. ;-) A moment to remember indeed.

Dave, regarding your original question about the hats... People have absolutely NO real idea why they arbitrarily decide something like "It's not right to wear a hat inside a pub." They have no frikkin' idea whatsoever. They heard it from somebody else who heard it from somebody else who heard it from somebody else who heard it from some fool who heard it from somebody else who likewise had no idea.

It's totally arbitrary, like most of the other cultural stuff we are accustomed to.

I used to wear a leather cowboy hat all the time...wore it right through the whole 70's. Why? I figured it gave me that cool folk musician look, I guess, and I liked it. Occasionally some uptight jerk somewhere would ask me to remove it in a restaurant or something like that.

He didn't have any real idea why either, I assure you...

Most of humanity is walking around about 98% unconscious of what they're really doing and why anyway most of the time.

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 01:55 PM

As an Orthodox Jew, I am required to keep my head covered at all times. If asked to remove my hat I always keep my skullcap (Yarmulke) underneath my hat. I do remove my hat if asked to but my yarmulke stays on 24/7. Judges in all courts, both state & federal, have recognized this as a religious civil right. No private establishment that caters to the public has the right to ask me to remove my yarmulke without facing legal consequences.

                                                 SOl ZELLER

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 01:55 PM

My only problem with hats is that a decent one is unobtainable anywhere in my vicinity. My current (essentially a "Trilby") replaced a ®Stetson "Indiana Jones" model about 14 years ago, and is worn any time I'm away from the house. It is getting distressingly "dog eared," and has a few holes breaking through at the wear points; but there are NO RETAILERS anywhere remotely close who sell anything other than "cowboy" hats - patterned after the preferences of "Hoss" from the well-known Cartwrights, or "novelty" junk that wouldn't last 30 minutes in outdoor sunlight.

I guess old-farts just aren't that much of a market in my region. One local dealer has promised me, annually, that he would get something appropriate "in soon," but that's been going on for more than 12 years now with no result.

Mail order is not generally acceptable, since the ads don't generally give a sufficient specification, and a couple of tries have obtained trash that was unwearable (at significant expense).

John

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: gnu
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 02:03 PM

My buddy's wife joked about the fact that I wear hats all the time to cover up my bald head. Odd, I thought. Of course I do. Otherwise my bald hear would get cold in the winter and sunburnt in the summer.

I just bought my first Tilley hat as the wide brim will help protect the scar from my slice and dice. Well, a chinese version, at less than one sixth the cost of a real Tilley - but, no lifetime warranty. It's even got a zippered pocket in the "roof" (?). So, can I join your gang, sIx?

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 02:09 PM

John... contact Steve at http://www.adventurebilthats.com/ if you're looking for a damn good hand made hat.....

Tell him I sent ya....

What's yer hat size? I have a vintage Stetson Royal Delux
Size 7 & 1/2", that's in need of a good home....

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: jaze
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 02:11 PM

Dave the Gnome, I would have picked up my drinks and asked the bar keep to carry my hat to the table!

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 02:12 PM

OOps... SIZE 7& 1/2.... not 7 & 1/2"

Man... that'd be small!

LOL

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 02:45 PM

I am going to ask next time if it is because of security. If it is I will take off my broad brimmed Tilley to reveal a tarboosh underneath:-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: Mr Red
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 02:48 PM

well I'm sorry, but if Mr Red goes into a pub wearing in full regailier inc a red cowboy (gaucho actually) hat with red glasses (& lenses) and the witnesses fail to identify him - I think I have a perfect plan to get rich quick...................

Now anyone know how to get noticed at the bar so I can get served before 20 regulars who weren't there when I arrived?

No I don't know either............. and when I say to the barman/woman "You know, I'll have to do something to get noticed" they invariably show not one flicker of acknowledgenmet (100% so far).

Dave - put the management on the spot and ask for the policy reasons - if the refer you to head (ha!) office reply by asking if it wears a hat!

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: Mr Red
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 02:52 PM

FWIW UK pubs can refuse to serve anyone and don't legally have to give a reason.

It is all about law and order, the landlord is responsible for any fracas in his pub.

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 02:52 PM

Easy to get served at posh winebars - Just shout very loudly for a bottle of vintage Bollinger. When the barstaff ask what vintage just say "Sorry I was only kidding, but now I have your attention..."

I have only been thrown out of one so far;-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: number 6
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 03:02 PM

Gnu and Dave ... sure, ya can join .... we're looking to expand our charter membership in other localities. Us old fart outlaws always need to stick together ... especially during these times.

CH ... do you carry a wip in that bag? ... is it a World Famous brand clone of the British MK VII or is it the real thing? Just asking since those are rather difficult items to find these days.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: Amos
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 03:07 PM

Raise your voice, Red, and holler HOWDY!!!


A

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: Amos
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 03:13 PM

Clinton:

I'll take it. Just the right size!!

Lemme know. I'll PM you an address.


A

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 03:19 PM

Clinton -

US hat sizes are commonly in inches - by the diameter of the (round) post it fits on. I have found that ordering by mail is not reliable, due to size tolerance as well as to quality. Apparently some makers use a "fuzzy post" to measure, as there's quite a lot of variation in hats all marked as the same size, even when dealing with the rare real hat dealer or maker.

Assuming an accurate measure, a 7-1/2 would be a a bit large to be comfortable on my little pin-head, and at the rate I'm losing the hair the head may be smaller than my existing hats were originally built. With sufficient wear a good hat will "shrink in place" a bit, but there are limits to how far one can go.

One of my first "real" hats felt fairly comfortable, until I noticed that the tops of my ears were getting "chapped" from it resting on them. (Actually, one ear or the other, depending on the degree of jaunty tilt. I'm a bit less jaunty now, perhaps; but a proper sizing is needed.)

John

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 03:27 PM

" CH ... do you carry a wip in that bag?"
Why would one carry a whip in a bag like that, when one can get a perfectly good whip holder to put on ones belt, should one need to? Or is that supposed to be YET another Indy joke? LOL (FYI, he never carried the whip IN the bag..... ,-)

"is it a World Famous brand clone of the British MK VII or is it the real thing?"
It is a clone from a company called What Price Glory.... They have repros and also often have authentic bags in stock... I went with repro casue I didn't want someone else's beat up junk...... It's the best Murse (Man-purse) I've ever carried.....

Amos... I offered to sell it to JiK first, but if he's not interested, we can talk turkey... PM sent to ya :-)

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 03:28 PM

" a 7-1/2 would be a a bit large to be comfortable on my little pin-head"

Heard that.... on me, it's WAY too small!

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: Amos
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 03:39 PM

You can also insert padding behind the sweat band to make up for 1/8-1/4 of a size.

A 7 1/2 nominally fits about 23 1/2 around the middle of the forehead (and clear of the ears! :D).

A

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 03:42 PM

Never mind the hats question. Yesterday I went into a local Wetherspoons bar in Cardiff while the Speedway was on, walked up to the bar, viewed the selection of beers (always a good selection), made my choice and waited to be served....

Barmaid: What can I get you?
Me: A pint of Carolus Ambrio please.
Barmaid: Sorry we're not allowed to serve it in pints, only halves.
Me: Ok, I'll have two halves of Carolus Ambrio please.

Barmaid then serves me two half-pints, charges me £1.89 and goes to serve the next customer, without, apparently, noticing anything odd with the transaction.

CHEERS
Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 05:08 PM

Wow! 94.5p per half! I knew Cardiff was a good place but not THAT good:-)

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 05:28 PM

To gain attention at a busy bar, move sideways, rather than up and down or forward and back... no-one else will be moving that way and you should get the attention of any sensible bar person.

If there is someone else moving sideways, it's either me or Maureen Lipman and we were there first!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 06:59 PM

They had a notice up in our Wetherspoons a few weeks ago saying no hats with peaks - when I asked them they said it was so the security camera could ID anybody making trouble. No worries about yarmulkas or turbans, since they don't shadow the face (and in any case in our part of the wolrd they'd tend to make it easier to identify the wearers in such an eventuality, since they aren't worn by too many people).

The notices seem to have gone now. I don't know if the policy is still there. Anyway I never have anybody coming up and telling me to take my Captain Haddock type cap off as I enter - though I generally take my headgear off indoors anyway, that being the normal thing we do in my culture.

As for the Carolus Ambrio - well it is 8%, double the strength of the average brew, so it makes sense to draw attention to that.    With Wetherspoons prices, I think it's a bit churlish to grumble at something like that. (And at that price it might easily be assumed that it was a standard strength beer.) After all, pubs don't sell whiskey by the pint glass either, though there's no objection to people buying a trayful of whiskeys at the same time.

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: John O'L
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 07:21 PM

Dave, I had a similar experience some years ago when my wife & I called in for a beer on the way home from watching cricket. I was wearing a wide brimmed leather hat, which I only ever wear when I'm in the sun for a long time, and which I took off as I walked in from the street. (This is what I was brought up to do.) I went to the bar, ordered drinks for my wife and myself, and finding I had only one hand to take two drinks I put the hat in the only place it would go. The barmaid didn't ask, she told me to take it off. I had to walk to the table with a beer in each hand and a hat hanging from my teeth.

I don't care what the reason is, and I don't mind if it's as silly as 'that's the way it's always been', what annoyed me was the petty pedanticism. I had to carry my hat in my mouth about ten paces, when I had a perfectly good head going to waste. Ridiculous.

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 07:25 PM

There are a LOT of cowfolk out here would would take considerable umbrage in leaving their hats anywhere but on their heads. As I said earlier, not in church, not in court, and not in bed. They aren't orthodox Jews, they just like their hats on their heads.

If you want a GOOD hat, go to a good Western wear store -- not one that caters to tourists, but a real one. You can get a hat that's 100X beaver, assuming you're willing to pay the cost. It would last so long you could be buried in it for a century and it would still look good (a lot better than you will, anyway). And a good store will crease it to your specs -- PRCA, double mule kick, Montana, Top Hand, whatever you wish. And they'll include this in the (HUGE!!) price you'll pay for a very, very, very, very good hat.

Do pubs in the UK have that much trouble with troublemakers?

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 07:42 PM

"With sufficient wear a good hat will "shrink in place" a bit"

.. or is it the head swelling? :-)




" I had to carry my hat in my mouth about ten paces, when I had a perfectly good head going to waste. "

... and something else useful for carrying hats... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 09:15 PM

Not a lot of cowfolk round our way. And if there are any they would be wearing flat caps, if they wear anything on their heads.

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: John O'L
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 09:26 PM

and something else useful for carrying hats



I'd like a dollar for every time I've wished I was a moose.

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 10:23 PM

If you were a moose and came by, I'd hang my hat from your antlers. Then I'd offer you a Moose Drool.

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: John O'L
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 10:29 PM

A Moose Drool? Should I accept or politely decline?

(Or should my response be more immediate?)

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 10:33 PM

Moose Drool!!! (You decide your reaction. Mine is to reach for the opener.)

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: John O'L
Date: 05 Jun 06 - 12:26 AM

Ah. I see. Then I would reciprocate by offering you a bottle of O'Lennaine's Blackheath Bladder Fodder, which will not only make you live 1,000 years but yodel like Gene Autry too.

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 05 Jun 06 - 02:24 AM

It's considered GOOD MANNERS to remove your hat indoors.

eric

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Jun 06 - 02:43 AM

I'd make hats compulsory. They would have peoples phone number, and DNA profiles on, favouite ice cream flavour, predilections in ladies underwear, and the number of speeding tickets they'd been issued with.

Anybody with the wrong hat on would be sentenced to a period of readjustment, until they agreed that no one who wasn't wearing a collarless Grandad shirt, without the regulation finger in the ear, and possessing all the Waterson/Carthy cds in existence should be allowed to sing folk songs.

theres too much of it about, and we need to clamp down.

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: Rasener
Date: 05 Jun 06 - 03:21 AM

"Do pubs in the UK have that much trouble with troublemakers? "

Yes, but even more trouble when they get outside.

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: John O'L
Date: 05 Jun 06 - 04:01 AM

It's not the troublemakers that are the problem, it's the quiet polite bastards who are the problem.

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Jun 06 - 04:47 AM

make 'em wear hats - that would keep them quiet.

anyuone who was a nasty piece of work...... you know the type, sings bloody folksongs all the time......

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 05 Jun 06 - 05:30 AM

Britain's fall from Greatness dates from the time people stopped wearing hats. Look at any old- say pre-1930- photograph. EVERYBODY is wearing a hat, even little kids. They were respectful to their elders, people worked 80 hours a week and went happily to the workhouse when they wore out, soldiers Did Their Duty and went over the top when the sergeant blew the whistle, people had hobbies, collected stamps or train numbers or made cuckoo clocks with marquetry inlays, there was a bobby on every street corner, and The Times was infallible.

Now there are few hats, and Britain is hell on earth, the police arrest OAPs for being mugged, kids can't read or write, and boy scouts don't even wear short trousers.

Subject: RE: BS: What's wrong with hats all of a sudden?
From: Rasener
Date: 05 Jun 06 - 07:09 AM

"kids can't read or write"

Mine can, and one is Autistic and the other ADHD.
Mine are also respectful to olders.
They are 10 & 14

I am also sure that there are a large proportion of kids who are the same.

The trouble is that the minority pleb gits are running wild with police not having any power to stop them.

It would be interesting to know percentages of respectful families versus ASBO families. I am sure you will find that the ASBO's are in the minority and make evrybody else suffer.