Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: Kim C Date: 13 Nov 02 - 09:49 AM Someone already said it, but I'll say it again.... Victor Hugo. And in conjunction with Poland, Frederic Chopin. The palace at Versailles. The Louvre. Chevre et pain. (that's goat cheese and bread) Escargot. They are good. If you like clams & oysters, give escargot a try sometime. Creme brulee. Timothy de Montbrun. That won't mean much to anyone outside Nashville. |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: Catarina Date: 13 Nov 02 - 09:58 AM Jacques Brel - who was belgian, of course. Marguerite Yourcenar - who was also belgian. Georges Simenon - and he too was belgian. Astérix et Obélix - belgian. Tintin - Guess what? Belgian. Lucky Luke - As belgian as all the others. Maybe France doesn't even exist or is just a belgian province? |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: GUEST Date: 13 Nov 02 - 10:51 AM France isn't exactly the only despicable imperial empire though. Portugal didn't exactly distinguish itself heroically in, say, South America, for instance. |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: M.Ted Date: 13 Nov 02 - 11:08 AM Rousseau, Voltaire, Montaigne et al--The Encyclopedia, manned flight as well as mechanically powered flight, bureaucracy, "The Balance of Power"-- Also, the French are to be congratulated for creating and maintaining one of the most recognizable of modern nations without ever really settling on a form of government-- |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: Catarina Date: 13 Nov 02 - 11:30 AM Dear guest, Portugal didn't exactly distinguish itself heroically anywhere. Don't worry, we know that. But the french did invade us, and we NEVER invaded France - well maybe we wanted to, but weren't able, I don't know... By the way, I forgot one thing: isn't it true that all the babies come from Paris in a tiny basket? |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 13 Nov 02 - 11:44 AM Sagging off the Yanks and the English and so forth here is fair enough, because there are plenty of them here to chip in. But there aren't many French. So I think it's better to stick to the things we like. Manon des Sources; Amelie; Francois Villon. |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 13 Nov 02 - 11:45 AM Slagging off the Yanks and the English and so forth here is fair enough, because there are plenty of them here to chip in. But there aren't many French. So I think it's better to stick to the things we like. Manon des Sources; Amelie; Francois Villon. |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: Little Hawk Date: 13 Nov 02 - 11:47 AM It was a dead heat between Portugal and Spain for most despicable brutality against the orginial inhabitants of America. The French, on the other hand, tended to get along rather well with the Native American tribes, and often adopted their cultural ways and intermarried with them. Sadly, the French colonial government was almost unbelievably corrupt and incompetent. They had one thing going for them...Montcalm. He was a superb general and a true gentleman, constantly hobbled by a corrupt and wretched civilian adminstration that he fought valiantly to protect until his untimely death. - LH |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: Pied Piper Date: 13 Nov 02 - 11:49 AM Without doubt the most important French contribution to the world is the Bidet a magnificent device, but in not so impressed by those French toilets in which you have to squat to do a No2. |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: GUEST,John Gray in Oz Date: 13 Nov 02 - 11:55 AM The world's longest running losing sequence - when did they last win anything? The world's greatest act of procrastination - in WWII they couldn't make up their minds whose team they were on. JG/FME |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: Grab Date: 13 Nov 02 - 12:07 PM M Ted - "manned flight and mechanically powered flight"? The Montgolfier brothers were the first European balloonists, yep. First flights of a winged aircraft were Von Lilienthal though, who was a German. And unless I'm *very* mistaken, it was the Wright brothers who were first with powered flight. What else have the French done for us? Strikes, of every variety. They make Arthur Scargill look like a workaholic... Graham. |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 13 Nov 02 - 12:20 PM World Cup 1998. (And I think you're getting mixed up with some other country about World War II. Getting defeated isn't the same thing as not knowing what side you're on.) Bourrés; and Blowzabella's best tunes. |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: GUEST,John Gray in Oz Date: 13 Nov 02 - 12:54 PM Yeah McGrath, you got me on the world cup thing. I was thinking of things of some significance though and a soccor cup doesn't loom large down here in Oz. I tend to look at the "300" and the Commonwealth forces in Singapore as being defeated whereas the French threw the towel in before the, inevitable, defeat occurred. JG/FME |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: GUEST Date: 13 Nov 02 - 01:20 PM And then there is the great Breton musicians like Dan ar Bras, Soïg Siberil, Christian Lemaitre, Ifig Troadec, Jean-Luc Thomas, and so many, many more. |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: M.Ted Date: 13 Nov 02 - 01:32 PM The Wright brothers achievement has to be qualified quite a bit--it is something to along the lines of "first powered, winged, heavier than air" (and even at that, there is another competing claim) as there had been powered balloons around since the 1860's though I cannot remember who-- The French have had a colorful history in aviation, my favorite episode being Leon Gambetta's escape from Paris by balloon during the German siege in 1870 (October 17, if you keep track), which I always thought was the inspiration for the balloon escape in the movie of the Wizard of Oz-- |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 13 Nov 02 - 01:39 PM Noone's mentioned the Norman Conquest. For good or ill. |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: Bill D Date: 13 Nov 02 - 02:43 PM immortality for Jerry Lewis?....strange folks, them frogs. Plaster of Paris? (well, everyone else beat me to the good stuff!) |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: gnu Date: 13 Nov 02 - 03:19 PM Brigitte Bardot. The only thing that could make her look better is a club. gnuwholikescodfillets |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: gnu Date: 13 Nov 02 - 03:24 PM Come to think of it, they did sink that boat with that bunch of tree huggers on it, didn't they ? Whassaname, Greenpiss ? Damn fine bunch a lads ! Mighta saved the Atlantic Salmon if they'da used more TNT. |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: catspaw49 Date: 13 Nov 02 - 03:33 PM Look gang, whatever we may owe the French and whatever they have given us, we will always be in their debt for taking Jerry Lewis off our hands (except on Labor Day). Spaw |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: boab d Date: 13 Nov 02 - 03:43 PM gave the plague to England and killed most of them along with just a few Scots. Well done |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: Hrothgar Date: 14 Nov 02 - 02:45 AM The Napoleonic Wars. How many casualties? The Emperor Maxmilian of Mexico. The Rainbow Warrior murder. All based on these wild delusions that they have had any real military capacity since about 1750. And this is while I'm in a good mood ......... |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: Steve Parkes Date: 14 Nov 02 - 09:11 AM Wasn't there a bloke called Coanda who made the first rocket-powered flight in France some time before the Wrights? He discovered soemthing now called the Coanda (or wall-attachment) effect, whereby a moving fluid (in his case, the rocket exhaust) attaches itself to and adjacent flat surface (in his case, the aircraft fuselage). He made a successful take-off and a successful flight, but ... well, there's enough there for you to work it out! Steve |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: Peter T. Date: 14 Nov 02 - 11:27 AM I think it is fair to say that the crown for the worst imperial bastards in Western History (I ignore Russia, China, and Japan) was held by the Portugueuse. I would rank Spain second, Belgium third (they started late, but really caught up), and France and Britain a tossup. The British at least stopped the slave trade, virtually single handed, which counts for a lot. The Portugueuse have a virtually unblemished history of miserable doings from 1443 until the 1960s! For sheer longevity alone, they win the prize. yours, Peter T. |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: M.Ted Date: 14 Nov 02 - 12:27 PM Coanda flew his jet in 1910--not before the Wright Brothers, but thirty years before it was "invented"--He also used the Coanda principle to the design of a "flying saucer" that could take off and land vertically-- He was a Romanian, though he studied in Paris--the French tend to claim as their own anyone who has lived in France and also done something noteworthy-- |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: Irish sergeant Date: 14 Nov 02 - 04:01 PM I rather think French is a beautiful language so that. great wine. Dan Ar Bras. Sophie Marceau, Emmanuelle Beart, Edith Piaf (Damn that woman could sing!) Catherine Deneuve. Voltaire, The Curies, Alexandre Dumas (Pere et Fils), and a host of interesting and entertaining politicians. The line "We'll always have Paris." is from the movie "Casablanca" Humphrey Bogart said it to Ingrid Bergman at the end of the flick. Great movie!! Kindest regards, Neil |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 14 Nov 02 - 04:47 PM Maybe it's better to concentrate on our own bad points, and other people's good points, nationally as well as individually. It sounds a lot less ugly than doing it the other way round. Sidney Bechet (who came from the States, but found France a much more welcoming place at that time). |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: Just Amy Date: 14 Nov 02 - 05:02 PM I was going to say Napoleonic Code but, of course, everyone knows he was a Corsican not French. Did anyone say - They gave us Vietnam when they were done with it. |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: Laurent Date: 14 Nov 02 - 07:20 PM Bonjour ! Well, I would like to rectify some mistakes. Catarina, Asterix and Obelix are French! Only the publisher was Belgian. René Goscinny was born in Paris. His parents were Jewish emigrants (his father was from Poland, his mother from Ukrainia). He lived for a while in Argentina and in USA before coming back to France. He died 25 years ago (5/11/77) Uderzo was born in Fisme (France) from Italian emigrants. They both worked for a Belgian publisher. Asterix and Obelix are caricature of French people : grousers, undisciplined, inflated with the sense of their own importance, proud of their glorious past story (forgetting all we did wrong…) I remember my History lessons when I was a kid : there were few heroes : - Vercingetorix, the first French resistance fighter (What was France when Cesar created Gaul?); - Joan of Arc, treacherously burnt by the English ; - Saint Louis (number IX) ; - The sly Louis XI ; - François I with the castles along the Loire ; - Louis XIV and Versailles ; - Barras, the teenager who died for Revolution ; - Napoleon the Great; - Pasteur and thevaccine against rabbies; - And the last bu t not least Général de Gaulle. Dead Horse you're right. A kind of guillotine seems to have been used in England (likewise Germany, Italy and even Persia). Dr Guillotin and a German harpsichord maher, Tobias Schmidt improved(?) the English machine. I'm glad we abolished death punishment in 1981. The guillotine had a lot of juicy names in French slang in the late 19th century and the early 20th. (If someone is interested, I can give some). Dead Horse: if Châteauneuf-du-Pape is an excellent wine, 69 du pape has a strong sexual connotation! I don't think Mrs Bardot is a good example of what French people should be. Though she is really concerned by baby seals survival, she is also known for her affinity with French National Front ideas (You know, Jean-Marie Le Pen, the guy who proclaimed that the nazis had good ideas…) Don't touch seagulls but chase out of France African people… Even if we are proud of Marie Curie (for a lot of youngsters, it's just the name of their school), who was probably one of our best scientist with Pierre her husband, she was born Marya Sklodowska in Warsaw. Is Napoleon French? You'll have to decide. He was born two years after Corsica joined France. Some Bretons musician may not regard themselves as French. Why did nobody mentioned the Lumière brothers who invented cinema, or Georges Melliès who first used visual effects in movies. Louis Pasteur ? It was quite a long post. A bientôt! Laurent |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: M.Ted Date: 14 Nov 02 - 07:56 PM Laurent, I was going to mention the Lumière Bros and Mellies myself, if only to disabuse those who believe cinema to be an American invention--by the way Joan of Arc was not French- |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 14 Nov 02 - 08:13 PM I don't think it was Brigitte Bardot's politics that people had in mind. Surely Charlemagne would have been in that list of approved Fench heroes. And wash your mouth out, M.Ted. Lorraine was French then and it's French now. |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: Little Hawk Date: 14 Nov 02 - 10:01 PM Given the fact that Napoleon was Emperor of all France, I would say he was French, without a doubt, regardless where he was born. Sort of like saying that Hitler (born in Austria) was not German to say Napoleon was not French. France has also given the world some great pastries and other fine cooking. - LH |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: DougR Date: 14 Nov 02 - 10:11 PM French Onion Soup. DougR |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: Duane D. Date: 14 Nov 02 - 11:54 PM Chocolate pudding. |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: Steve Parkes Date: 15 Nov 02 - 03:25 AM A vaccine against rabbies? Oy, vay'z mir!! |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: Troll Date: 15 Nov 02 - 08:03 AM They serve as a marvelous bad example.When it comes to dealing with anyone NOT French that is. I'm surprised that the rest of the world hasn't finally had enough of surly waiters and rude shopgirls and burned the whole place down. I guess they just can't get together on that anymore than they can get together on anything else, so France is probably safe. For now. troll |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: Dead Horse Date: 15 Nov 02 - 08:56 AM It were them thar filthy swines, the Spanish, that welcomed the (twice) outcast Cadiens into Louisiana that can (possibly) take the credit for Cajun music (not the Cajuns, ignore 'em)(better still, transport 'em to Kent. U.K.) And although the poor old froggies have been blamed for much destruction in Portugal during the peninsular war, I hazard a guess that us Brits did a fair amount of *liberating* despite Wellingtons orders to the contrary. I have heard somewhere that Portugal are our oldest ally, so what did they do in two world wars? Allied 'emselves to Switzerland, no doubt! At least we know where the French stand, firmly and unequivocally on both sides of the fence.....so there. (rather like us, really) Now, lets get at the Dutch!!! |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: Irish sergeant Date: 15 Nov 02 - 03:40 PM I can't speak for Paris having never been there but I have been to Cannes, Toulon and Marsailles. I found the people generally polite and welcoming. Laurent, wasn't there a politician (I think Danton)who referred to the guillotine as "The Lottery of Saint Just"? I was under the assumption tha Joan of Arc was French from Orleans (Hence her being called the "Maid of Orleans") I had forgotten about Pasteur. Wasn't there a biologist called LeVosier (The spelling may be off). Let us also not forget the great aviators of the early periot of flight. Bleroit, Georges Gunymeyer, Rene Fonck, Raoul Lufberry nad Charles Nungesser (Who may have actually been the first to cross the Atlantic solo. Experts think he became a smoking hole in Nova Scotia.) By French law, Napoleon Bonapart was French indeed he spent his life in the French army starting out as an artillery officer. If nothing else he gave British children a bogeyman. (Until JAck the Ripper came along, that is.)Kindest regards, Neil |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: M.Ted Date: 15 Nov 02 - 04:10 PM Jeanne D'Arc was from the Duchy of Lot, which did become a part of France for another couple hundred years--The voices told her to go to France, and, being divine in origin, they knew their geography pretty well--She is called the "Maid of Orleans" because she raised the siege-- ... This voice told me, two or three times a week, that I must go away and that I must come to France; and my father knew nothing of my leaving. The voice told me that I should go to France and I could no longer stay where I was. It told me that I should raise the siege laid to the city of Orléans. The voice told me also that I should go to Robert de Baudricourt at the town of Vaucouleurs, who was the captain of the town, and he would provide people to go with me. And I replied that I was a poor girl who knew neither how to ride4 nor lead in war."5 |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: Bert Date: 15 Nov 02 - 04:26 PM Pierre Vernier |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: Laurent Date: 15 Nov 02 - 06:53 PM Joan of Arc (Jehanne Darc) was born in the village of Domrémy-de-Greux (now called Domrémy-la-Pucelle) during the Feast of the Epiphany, Twelfth Night (January 6th), probably in the year 1412. (see for details : http://members.aol.com/hywwebsite/private/joanofarc_domremy.html or http://www.stjoan-center.com/military/stephenr.html). She lived a maid until she was raped in her jail by English soldiers. She is supposed to be a symbol of French national feeling and a symbol of French resistance to English invaders. But the Hundred Years war, was both a feudal and civil war in France. Question her holiness is still a taboo (rumour reports teachers being sacked)… Nevertheless, two of her mates are famous : Lahire (French Jack of Heart) who was an "écorcheurs" (assassins) gang's chief and Gilles de Rais, hanged and burned for murdering (and raping) of many children. I don't know if "Lottery of Saint-Just" is a true Danton's quotation. He 's known to have told the headsman on the scaffold : "Show my head to the people, it is worth seeing!". As French, I'm an anglophile (Argh!! do I need to be put away?). You told about rude shopgirls… Yes it's true, even for French people. But I met a rude shopboy in London's tower too. Fortunately, I also met a lot of charming people in England, welcoming the bloody foreigner I am. I fear we all have a bunch of bad tempered people throughout the world! A relation who worked in London in the sixties (or seventies) told me that n Eastside pubs, there was a note "Forbidden to dogs and French". I think it's time to bury the hatchet. Steve Parkes, sorry for the double b… Ikh bin eyn Schlemiel! (I hope it is correct Yiddish. I'm a goy. Nobody is perfect!) |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 15 Nov 02 - 07:18 PM Guilt by association should never be acceptable. Particularly when, as in the case of Gilles de Rais and Lahire it's to do with things that happen after Jeanne d'Arc had been murdered. As I've said on another thread, about what the USA has done for us, I'm inclined to think it's maybe rather a pity it wasn't the French rather than the English who came out on top in America in the 18th century. But to balance that, I think I'd sooner the English had won at the Battle of Hastings. |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: GUEST,Jane002_wales Date: 15 Nov 02 - 07:23 PM Given us an excuse to be xenaphobic - sorry Gareth but its true you are xanaphobic about the french |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: Don Firth Date: 15 Nov 02 - 09:30 PM Well, there is Louisiana. . . . Don Firth |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: greg stephens Date: 15 Nov 02 - 09:44 PM There have been some criticism of B Bardot's politics in earlier threads. I'd just like to say it wasnt donkey sanctuaries and Le Pen that my right hand was thinking of in 1958. |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: GUEST,bdatki Date: 16 Nov 02 - 12:07 AM Lavoisier was a well-known chemist. France had a lot of chemists, Charles, Lavoisier, a few others. |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: mousethief Date: 16 Nov 02 - 12:51 PM Cinco de Mayo by losing to the Mexican army on that date. Alex |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: GUEST,wdyat24 Date: 16 Nov 02 - 08:35 PM Shells fall in and out of a midden over time. wdyat24 |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: Hrothgar Date: 17 Nov 02 - 05:08 AM They also gave us good examples of things not to do - like the Terror and the Vichy Government. Oh, and le Grande Charles ... |
Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ? From: Laurent Date: 17 Nov 02 - 05:15 AM French Revolution has been a terrible mess. When Lavoisier was condemned to death in 1794, he was told that Revolution didn't need scientists. |