BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Lox
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 04:26 PM

Oh yes - I nearly forgot...

... and the OP is clearly meant as evidence that Gay men can't be trusted to be left alone with children or they will inevitably rape them.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 04:52 PM

I have a female acquaintance of the hard-charging, bra-burning, combat-boot wearing feminist persuasion who is convinced that NO man can be trusted alone around children. Not even for a few minutes.

Bad experience with a male relative when she was small. She doesn't blame that specific man. She blames men.

Sadly, one sees all too much of this kind of illogical jump from the specific to the universal. It's the basis for a great deal of bigotry.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Lox
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 05:19 PM

She wouldn't like me then ... being a single dad 'n all ...

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,erbert
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 05:38 PM

hmmm.. aahh...
I think I finally get the hang of this kind of arguement..

So if some here believe
that all gays are not to be trusted alone with children;

by the same logic it could just as easily be 'proven'
that all obsessively homophobic gay bashers
are actually repressed latent homosexuals living a life of pained confusion and futile denial !

hmmm..so then.. therefore..

its just as reasonable to claim

all raving obsessive homophobes are potential gay pervert child molesters!!!???

y'know there's a lot to be said for the value of logical discourse.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 05:40 PM

Yeah, she might even call the police on the basis of that alone. She just knows.

Kinda rabid. I don't really like talking with her. Any time I have the affrontery to disagree with something she says, she responds by saying something like, "Well, I would expect a man to say that!"

I feel sorry for her because of what her relative did to her way back (may he burn in hell), but I find it most unpleasant to be around someone who is that permanently hostile.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Royston
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 05:42 PM

well I'm glad this post cropped up, because I was feeling some guilt about assumptions I had made that Ake might have been a decent sort that I mistook for a bigot. Ake; you proved me right, you are a nasty piece of work.

You introduced this story with a flourish of prurient 'I told you so' towards the 'homosexualists' as you probably see them. You clearly expected that people who advocate tolerance and equality for gay or lesbian people should need to apologise or atone personally for the vile acts of one or more criminals that happened to be gay. It says a lot more about you than it does about anyone else.

A very dear friend of mine, no longer with us, was a family social worker who would attest with experience to the fact that most paedophiles are the heterosexual fathers of the unfortunate victims. This matches the experience of an earlier poster with experience of the US legal syste

I hope you get some help getting over yourself or whatever experiences have left you this way.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 05:58 PM

As I took it, the point that Ake saw as significant was not that this unsavoury character "happened to be gay", but rather that he had been a leading spokesman and advocate for gay rights, who had been recognised as such at a very high level.

If he had been a leading member of a (predominently heterosexual)group such as Families Need Fathers, the same kind of issues would have arisen.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Lox
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 06:56 PM

In fact I believe it was later shown that the guy in question was in fact an activist for the rights of pedophiles.

For the record, it so happens that "fathers for justice" disbanded because their membership was becoming increasingly comprised of unsuitable fathers who's "rights" wre taken away for very good reasons.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Royston
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 07:03 PM

Sorry McG, you are talking about the words

"Isn't it strange that we have had no comment on this
      from our resident promoters of homosexuality! "

Which are short, precise and unmistakably to the point "I told you so" and dripping with bile and prejudice towards gay people and those who would argue for equality and tolerance.

Shame.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 07:13 PM

I don't think Ake posted it because the guy 'just happened to be gay'. I think the ONLY reason he posted it was because the pedophile was gay.

It strikes me as fairly indicative that something's not quite right when the most important thing is that the person was gay. The actual crimes are not as significant--they only support his belief that gay = evil.

I'm also fairly surprised that so many people bit the bait, but it's pretty much the same bunch of us that always do. Every damned time...

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 10:35 PM

Jeri, there is a difference between taking a troll's bait and speaking out to take issue with a statement which is a deliberate attempt to spread misinformation. Not to speak up when one sees an obvious deception in progress is to implicitly condone that deception.

I don't believe either Ake or GfS will ever see the error of their ways. They have too much emotional investment in their prejudices. I do not harbor the misconception that anything I say or any evidence I present, no matter how correct and convincing it is seen to be by a rational person, will ever change either of their minds.

But exposing a falsehood and trying to change the mind of the spreader of that falsehood are two different issues. One can refute Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly (quite easily, actually), and undeceive someone who might naively believe something they claim, but one will never get either of them to change their positions. Their livelihood depends on it. They're professional manure-spreaders.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Gust from Sanity
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 10:53 PM

Don:'Don't try to get into a religious argument with me, GfS. I'm one of the few people who have actually read the Bible all the way through'

Any time, any place...except on this thread, which would be off topic!!!

Don:'Has to do with fear that the recently discovered evidence that sexual orientation may be a genetic predisposition rather than a matter of free choice is true. Lots of supporting evidence that GfS vociferously denies.'

Evidence, against the FACTS!!!! Still they HAVE NOT found the gene!!!!(which I factually posted several links before, which you readily skirt around!!
...and not on this thread!!!...so stop trying to bait me..GfS

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 11:09 PM

Facts that you find uncomfortable, so you simply deny them. And the matter is quite germaine to this thread. It shows the motivation of those who are trying to spread the misinformation.

You claimed on the other thread to be counsellor.   "Physician, heal thyself."

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 11:31 PM

Facts that you find uncomfortable, so you simply deny them. And the matter is quite germaine to this thread. It shows the motivation of those who are trying to spread the misinformation.

The weak accuse others of their own faults

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 03:20 AM

Never got a reply to my comments about the wholesale rape by clerics of children in their care - and there was me looking forward to a churchless/religionless future..... ah well!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: akenaton
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 03:33 AM

Jim...I've been too busy to reply....The wood burning stove business is going mad!

Try to contain yourself, I'm just as frustrated as you   :0)....I dont even have time to read all the messages above...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Smedley
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 06:21 AM

Let me summarise them for you then, Ake:

you're a homophobe

you have issues

you're a hypocrite

you like to provoke

and, as the length of this thread shows, you're rather good at it.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 08:16 AM

A) "All gay people are paedophiles" is clearly offensive nonsense; and so is "All paedophiles are gay".

B) "No gay people are paedophiles" and "No paedophiles are gay" are clearly, regrettably, false.

The trouble is that attempts to challenge the nonsensical propositions in A can be confused with defending the equally nonsensical propositions in B, and the other way round.

And if we think our opponent is saying something as offensive as "All gay people are paedophiles" or as dangerously misleading as "No paedophiles are gay", it is no wonder if tempers get raised.

(Replace "gay" by "straight" in this post if you prefer.)

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: kendall
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 09:36 AM

I always like to ask a hard question of people who think being gay is a choice. I ask, "When did you decide to be straight"? Or, "Have you any idea why the males of all mammalian species have nipples"?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 09:48 AM

But would the question "when did you decide to be a non-smoker?" be a very effective way of challenging the idea that smoking is a choice?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: kendall
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 01:12 PM

Sure it would.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: John P
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 01:16 PM

Anyone who thinks being gay is a choice doesn't have a very good memory of their early teens. If you are straight, when you hit 12 or 13 or whenever your sexual awakening was, was there really any chance that you wouldn't be obsessing about members of the opposite sex? What makes you think anyone else is any different?

McGrath, please get your logic in better order. Comparing sexual orientation to being a smoker or not being a smoker is really dumb. I'll ask you outright: Do you think most gay people choose to be gay?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 01:48 PM

But would the question "when did you decide to be a non-smoker?" be a very effective way of challenging the idea that smoking is a choice?

Apples and Oranges.
Sexuality is an inherent part of our being. Putting a piece of burning tobacco wrapped in paper to your lips and inhaling is not.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 01:49 PM

""But would the question "when did you decide to be a non-smoker?" be a very effective way of challenging the idea that smoking is a choice?""

Yes it would, because everybody can remember the first time that they had the opportunity to smoke, and the choice they made at that time to say yes or no.

The same is not true of either heterosexuals or homosexuals when asked to recall exactly when they had the choice, and what they decided.

I always fancied girls, and never gave boys a second thought except as rivals, but I never made a conscious, reasoned, decision to be straight. I JUST AM!

Don T

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 01:59 PM

About the "gay gene" debate:

It is clear that no such "smoking gun" single gene has been found...see this article in Discover magazine (5 pages), or this one by an AP science writer....or many other articles.

But what IS becoming clear is that there is more & more evidence that a number of genetic , environmental AND some cultural factors do influnce humans in their sexual orientation. It is far from simple 'free choice'.

The various studies indicate statistically that DNA, brain chemistry, and other factors in heredity point to some degree of causative influences...and more evidence appears every year.

It has seemed to me for years that those who are repelled by homosexuality and/or were brought up in opposition to it..often in religious circumstances, will look for any justification for the claim that it is 'abnormal' or 'against nature' or 'perverted' or whatever phrase they prefer. In contrast, many of the researchers who are finding the evidence I refer to are NOT gay, and have only an interest in 'good science'.

Being 'straight',myself, I do not appreciate being targeted by a gay guy...though it has happened only a couple of times. But all I thought, even then, was that it was rude and awkward....not that they had any 'choice' to be the way they were. (Bear in mind that in Kansas in the 1950s & 1960s, it was not easy for gays & lesbians to find willing partners! Sometimes, they just made a bad guess.)

It is a loaded topic, and I suspect that no matter how much evidence is found, that many will never reconcile the idea that "those people" can't usually control what their sexual orientation is.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 02:02 PM

With many human activities there is an element of choice and an element of inner compulsion. That appears to hold for smokers, in that many people find it pretty easy to avoid becoming smokers or to give it up, while others seem to find it impossible to stop smoking. The same goes for drinking.

The assumption that this does not hold when it comes to sexual behaviour is open to question.

Whether it's a matter of choice or compulsion does not alter how we should behave towards people who differ from us in such matters. For example, even if we think that smoking is an unfortunate compulsion or an unwise choice, that does not give us the right to insult smokers.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 02:56 PM

Good articles, Bill!

GfS hangs his/her whole snarl on the idea that a "gay gene" has not actually been found. However—

In the mid-1800s, Gregor Mendel was able to trace genetically determined characteristics without even knowing that there was such a thing as genes or DNA molecules.

Same-sex orientation seems to run in families. I observed this in the family of a friend of mine, and it can't simply be explained by trying to claim that one member of the family introduced the other members into homosexuality. An uncle here and a couple of cousins there, and the family is scattered across the country and some of them, though related, have never met.

So far, all indications are that the tendency toward this orientation comes through the female line. It may not be as simple as a "gay gene." The truth is that it is quite probably a number of factors, perhaps a combination of genes, making it a bit more difficult to trace.

No, GtS, just because you can't find your own butt with both hands and an copy of Grey's Anatomy doesn't mean it isn't there.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 03:22 PM

"..everybody can remember the first time that they had the opportunity to smoke, and the choice they made at that time to say yes or no."

I certainty can't. I can remember a time I didn't smoke, and a time I did smoke, and a time I didn't smoke any more. But I can't remember the first time I smoked - or the last time, for that matter.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 04:32 PM

Well, I can. Rather vividly. 1948. I was in my senior year in high school. I was sitting at the counter in a restaurant a half-block from school, along with a school friend, Curt Grant. Curt smoked. He talked me into trying one.

It didn't taste very good. I coughed a lot. I turned pea-green. I felt a bit nauseated. I don't know why I stuck with it, but I did. A few months later, I was smoking like a chimney.

But then, old geezer that I am notwithstanding, I have a satisfyingly tenacious memory.

I started singing folk songs in 1952. Once I got to singing here and there, I kept asking myself, "Okay, you sing. Your voice is your instrument. If you played the clarinet, would it make any kind of sense to blow hot smoke through your clarinet thirty or forty times a day!?? It's flamin' idiotic!!"

On June 19th, 1978, my 47th birthday. A warm, sunny day, sitting on John Dwyer's deck in Marysville, Washington, overlooking Puget Sound, I smoked my last three cigarettes. And gave my cigarette lighter to someone else there who smoked.

I haven't smoked since.

It was definitely a matter of choice, first to start smoking, then to quit.

Don Firth

Now back to our regular broadcast.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 04:57 PM

Smoking is almost always curiosity and social pressure to start, but it is physically addictive. Thus, the desire to quit needs to be pretty strong. My parents smoked...my younger brother smoked.... I never did. There 'may' be some genetic factor involved in my having no desire to start, but... *shrug*

I doubt there is a gene that says: "roll up some plant material in a piece of paper and set fire to it."
We are, however, genetically programmed to have various degrees of sexual desires, or there wouldn't be these discussions... *wry smile*. The concern now is learning in what ways the programming might differ, due to hormonal variations or other conditions that would 'tend' someone to be gay.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 05:29 PM

"t has seemed to me for years that those who are repelled by homosexuality and/or were brought up in opposition to it..often in religious circumstances, will look for any justification for the claim that it is 'abnormal' or 'against nature' or 'perverted' or whatever phrase they prefer. In contrast, many of the researchers who are finding the evidence I refer to are NOT gay, and have only an interest in 'good science'." Bill D


I agree with you, Bill, but to take it further: It is not only those who are repelled by homosexuality and/or were brought up in opposition... often in religious circumstances' etc; sadly, it evidently also applies to those who are drawn to same sex sexuality and are torn between feeling that it is wrong, a sin, a direct slap at their parents and the church, and the acting out of the deepest compulsion of their being.

I say, "sadly" because I can't imagine much greater torture than a young person might feel in that case.

People who condemn homosexuals as having 'free choice' and making the wrong choice are lacking in logic. Why in the world would a person choose to be ostrcized, ridiculed, assaulted, shamed, and even killed if they had a choice?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 05:44 PM

It seems reasonable to speculate that most aspects of how we are have some kind of relation to our genetic make-up, but that's not the same as there being genes that determine what we do.

How a tree grows is affected by its genome, but also various other factors, such as the soil in which it grows and the way the wind blows and the rain falls.

I can't see that if there's an element of choice in how people behave sexually that is something to be uncomfortable about. In fact the idea that there isn't is a bit alarming. Even threatening, opening vistas of eugenic "cleansing".

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 07:47 PM

Looks like this thread fell at the first fence!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 08:27 PM

There is evidence to support the theory that, no matter what physical equipment a fetus is endowed with (determined by XX or XY chromosomes), what determines its sexual orientation is the timing of an infusion of hormones. When and how much. Not unlike a recipe. Oftentimes how a recipe works out depends on when and/or how much of a particular ingredient is added.

This may have to do with the genetic make-up of the mother. And this mis-timing may not happen with every child she bears. Hence, with three sons and a daughter, say, two sons and the daughter are heterosexual and one son is same-sex oriented.

This could also account for identical twins (presumably genetically identical) when one is heterosexual and the other is homosexual. For some reason, one of the fetuses receives the "prescribed" dose of the necessary hormone, and the other does not.

So in examining homosexual males for a "gay gene," researchers may be looking in the wrong place.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 08:32 PM

Don:'No, GtS, just because you can't find your own butt with both hands and an copy of Grey's Anatomy doesn't mean it isn't there.'

Mr.Firth, I did not attack you in any way, nor made crude comments concerning you in any way. Matter of fact, you're the one who came out swinging at me, unprovoked. I think a gentleman, at your age, should know better. Perhaps showing a better example of decency, in a forum, or in any public arena, of exchanging ideas, might present yourself, as a little more convincing, that you might have something of value to add.
Nonetheless, Regards,..GfS

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 09:05 PM

Don, By the way................(must have been from 'reading the whole Bible).......

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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 09:37 PM

Short memory there, GfS. You were hacking at me right from the start, and as a gentleman of my age, I've learn that it's best to step on snide remarks when they first start, otherwise they tend to escalate.

And I don't need any lessons from you in matters of decency. Again, physician, heal thyself!

I'm trying to stick to the subject. You're the one who thinks you can make debating points by try to admonish me. That's known as the fallacy of the "Appeal to Pity." Trying to discredit a person's argument by claiming that that person is being mean to you.

Don't keep attacking me if you don't want me to retaliate.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 09:43 PM

More snidities, there GfS. When I mentioned Grey's Anatomy, I was not referring to the television series. In fact, I didn't even think of the television series (I've never watched it). I was referring to the standard medical school textbook and a reference book that at least used to be in every doctor's office.

Perhaps if you studied a copy of the textbook, you might actually be able to locate your butt.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 09:51 PM

Don, I just scrolled down through this thread, and found no attacks from me to you. On the contrary, you started your antics, once again, (that is quite evident, as well). If you find, somewhere on this thread, that substantiates your accusation, cut and paste it. Prove me wrong..or shut up!!!

Other than that, let's stick to the topic, ok?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 10:23 PM

Sorry, forgot to 'sign in'

More snidities, there GfS. When I mentioned Grey's Anatomy, I was not referring to the television series. In fact, I didn't even think of the television series (I've never watched it). I was referring to the standard medical school textbook and a reference book that at least used to be in every doctor's office.

Perhaps if you studied a copy of the textbook, you might actually be able to locate your butt.

Don Firth


P.S.Did you mean?:

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Just clarifying, because 'Gr-E-y's Anatomy, IS the T.V. show.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 10:48 PM

Horrendous victory, there, GfS! Yes, I was referring to GRAY's Anatomy. So you caught me in a spelling error! Oh, HORROR!!

There will be champagne in the GfS house tonight!

It started, GfS, when you accused me of being bigoted toward Christians when I identified those who tried to have a Washington State law rescinded as an out-or-state Christian coalition. My identification of this group was accurate, and it had nothing to do with my being bigoted toward Christians. As I explained, I belong to a Christian church. A main-line denomination (Lutheran) church which, I might add, is quite liberal, and has, on occasion, performed marriages for same-sex couples.

Then, you started quoting totally irrelevant Bible verses at me, and it went fromt there.

Also, you have a bit of a history from the previous thread on California's Proposition 8.

Speaking of history, I note that, as close as I can tell from your posting history, you have never posted on any of the music threads above the line. This is a folk music forum. Do you sing? Do you play a musical instrument? What are you doing here, anyway?

Don Firth

P. S. My wife just called me to dinner. I won't be back this evening.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Lox
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 05:11 AM

"How a tree grows is affected by its genome, but also various other factors, such as the soil in which it grows and the way the wind blows and the rain falls."


McGrath, I hadn't read that metaphor before, least of all put in such sublime simple terms.

I think it deserves to be framed and hung in every family's home.



A quick aside on the subject of Addiction,

Recent research has shown a link between a persons propensity to be an addict and the dopamine levels in their brain.

Those whose brains do not produce normal levels of dopamine are significantly more likely to develop addictions.

Dopamine levels are predestined depending on what happens in the womb.

The child of someone who drinks, smokes or does drugs is much less likely to produce normal levels of dopamine and consequently they are more likely to develop addictions.

Current research into treatment for addicts is centreing on trying to synthesise dopamine as a chemiical "cure" or drugs that can help regulate dopamine levels.


As for why people get into the drugs in the first place,

most addicts suffer from addiction as one factor in a unique mixed package of various different problems.

Kids who suffer from personality disorders often develop addictions as part of their disorder.

Personality disorders are generally defined by a self centred mindset, an inability to take responsibility for oneself, a tendency to see the world in black and white absolute terms with no capacity to consider sades of grey, a tendency to self abuse and an inability to form nurturing relationships.

(While there are Gay people with personality disorders, homosexuality is not an example of one as the majority of Gay people are able to be considerate, take responsibility for themselves, respect themselves, form nurturing relationships and understand that not every question has a YES/NO answer.)

So for a child who has been born of alcoholic parents and perhaps abused or abandoned by them, becoming addicted to a substance is not necessarily a choice any more than it was a choice for me to resist becoming addicted to anything..

I am insticntively repelled at the idea of becoming dependant on a drug and my being would fight against my addiction if by some freakish chance I became addicted to something.

I am very grateful to my parents.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Wolfgang
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 01:09 PM

Nearly all paedophiles are male. Is it sexist to mention this? No, it's just a fact.

Does follow from this fact that nearly all men are paedophiles? Not at all. Nearly all males are not paedophiles.

Some Mudcatters, however, have difficulties if it is mentioned that members of a minority group are more likely than people not belonging to this group to commit a certain type of crime. That can happen if it is religion what defines the minority group or sexual leaning or whatever.

But in fact, the situation is quite the same as in the innocuous starting paragraphs of my post.

Men with homosexual leanings are more likely than men with heterosexual leanings to commit the crime of paedophilia. That is a simple fact that everyone can know who has read a bit on that field.

Does from that follow that most homosexuals (men) are paedophiles? Not at all. By far most of the homosexual men are not paedophiles.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Wesley S
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 01:26 PM

"Men with homosexual leanings are more likely than men with heterosexual leanings to commit the crime of paedophilia. That is a simple fact that everyone can know who has read a bit on that field."

If it's a simple fact I'm sure you'll have no trouble providing a link to the research that proves your statement.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 01:47 PM

"Men with homosexual leanings are more likely than men with heterosexual leanings to commit the crime of paedophilia."
I'd like to see the research on that one too please.
On the other hand, the overwhelming majority of rapes and sexual abuses (on both adults and children) are committed by hetrosexual men - so where does that leave us?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Lox
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 02:08 PM

Thank you Jim.

In answer to your question, I suspect sadly that it leaves us no further than before.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 02:47 PM

It's utterly irrelevant I know, but as a female child victim of 'heterosexual' paedophillia (is indeed there such a thing, when one is a child with no orientation of ones own, as the terminology itself utterly eradicates the victim?) I Love men, be they Straight, Gay or Bi.
Loadsa lovely men out there: one of them is my partner, many of them of whatever sexual orientation/persuasion are my friends and brothers. I also know very charming homosexual gentlemen, who have been very dear to me as uncles and employers. I'm sure many of them would have made exceptional fathers, who may have indeed protected me from the 'heterosexual' paedophiles, who repeatedly sexually assaulted me throughout my early Childhood.

Homosexual, heterosuxual, you're having a fucking laugh man, a child-fucker is a child-fucker. They each may have their personal kinks, but it's all the same to them: it's small, and it squeals when you do stuff to it..

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Wolfgang
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 02:51 PM

I knew someone would bite.

E.g., Kurt Freund, et al., "Pedophilia and Heterosexuality vs. Homosexuality," Journal of Sex & Marital Therapy 10 (1984)

Look, out of three victims of paedophilia, two are girls and one is a boy, roughly. Put that in proportion with the respective percentages of homosexual and heterosexual males then you should not be surprised about qwhat I have written.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Wolfgang
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 02:57 PM

Bill Watkins & Arnon Bentovim, "The Sexual Abuse of Male Children and Adolescents: A Review of Current Research," Journal of Child Psychiatry 33 (1992)

for the last statistic mentioned.

Robert L. Johnson, Medical Aspects of Human Sexuality (September 1988) for the claim that boys' abuse may be underreported.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 04:55 PM

Wolfgang, Kurt Freund's research is not accepted by everyone as reliable. CLICKY #1

Also worth reading. CLICKY #2

What articles I was able to find by Watkins and Bentovim seemed to be dealing primarily with the sex abuse scandals in the Catholic Church, and they seemed to be shot through with an attempt to convey the idea that what some rogue Catholic priests were up to with the altar-boys is common behavior in the secular community as well. A suspicious looking attempt to justify the behavior by claiming that "everybody does it." This sort of motivation tends to skew any attempt to provide "scientific evidence" for a particular viewpoint.

Don Firth