BS: Christian Persecution

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Apr 15 - 02:46 PM

No one has yet commented on the BBC making a programme about the subject of this thread entitled "Kill The Christians."

You said it was wrong for me to start this thread, and that it proves me to be an Islamophobe.

That same criticism must then apply to the BBC, yet no outcry here or in the real world about their bigotry and racism.

It shows you were all wrong to object to this discussion being started and reopened.

Right Jim?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Apr 15 - 04:31 PM

You appear to be eternally confused between a partial quote and a misquote. A partial quote is when you leave a bit out. A misquote is when you claim that the quotee said something he didn't. Which is what you did. Hope this helps.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Apr 15 - 05:02 PM

Yes, except I didn't.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Apr 15 - 05:23 PM

Well, Steve,

Kieth appears, from the abundant evidence he's posted here, to be operating at about Piaget's Preoperational, Toddlerhood (18-24 months) through early childhood (age 7) Stage.

No point in trying to engage him at a more advanced level.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Apr 15 - 05:33 PM

Dunno, Greg. He appears to have memory loss and severe confusion. Isn't that more of an old age thang?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Apr 15 - 05:35 PM

The more I think about it, the more I think it is a left brain / right brain type of issue. I fully understand what Steve says. I understand most of Musket says, although some of it goes over my head. I have met Raggy and we are definitely on the same wavelength.

Keith - I just do not know why you cannot see how you annoy people so much and why you come across, to me, as a devious liar. I am sure you are a nice guy and genuinely believe you are telling nothing but the truth. It is not your fault, it is mine. Just in the same way that I do not appreciate Jazz and Opera, I do not understand or like you. You probably think the same about me and, from various comments, you obviously do not understand what I am trying to put across. I doubt we will ever be friends but I am happy to call a truce.

You believe in god. I say I don't know. You believe in statistics. I trained for a while as a statistician and, again, will always doubt them. Your faith in these things is far greater than mine and I am sure it makes you content while I am more cynical and rely instead on self made happiness. Wouldn't life be boring if we were all the same.

I won't say good luck in your efforts because I don't believe you deserve it but I will say I wish you good health and peace.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 02:55 AM

".Jim has deserted and Team Musket have walked out with their hands up."
Nope - I have been unable to open this thread since Wednesday - extremely frustrating.
Nice to see you have added to the "I won" mob, though
'the "kill Christians" statement makes no difference whatever, if anything, it underlines the point that all religious killings are evil, whoever they are carried out by.
You have chosen either to ignore or deny any extremism on the part of Christians and have denied that it takes place   
You people are the only ones ever to have supported sectarian terrorism in any shape or form - Keith vehemently, when it comes to that carried out by te Israeli regime in the name of the Jewish people (massacres of refugees, bombardment of hospitals, use of chemical and fragment weapons, starving an entire population onto submission - all ok by him).
He and you refuse to acknowledge any similar behaviour by your particular flavour-of-the-month (Bosnia, Northern Ireland - no comment).
All slaughter, sectarian or otherwise, is unacceptably ever - by Isis, Boko Harem, By Israeli's in the name of Judaism, Bosnian Christians killing 100,000 Muslims, Nigerian Christians killing and driving out returning Muslim refugees....... all are acts of evil, whether they are carried out by religious fanatics in the name of their religion or for military or economic advantage using religion as an excuse.
All of the main religious groups are capable of such acts and in the case of some of them, it is still happening (and this includes Christians   
I is just as evil and hypocritical to take sides, either by defending those acts or by excusing and ignoring them.
You people have chosen your side - it's them, not us, and you continue to refuse to acknowledge that it is all religious groups who step outside their religious remit who are the problem, not any one religion in particular.
God save us all from bigots and religious fanatics such as yourselves.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Musket
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 03:25 AM

Let's get this right..

The BBC schedule some forthcoming entertainment and as a result, Keith reckons everyone is wrong.

And to think Dave reckons some of my posts go over his head. I'm 6'4 but Keith's post didn't even create a breeze on my slap head....

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Teribus
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 03:33 AM

GUEST,Dave the Gnome - PM
Date: 09 Apr 15 - 10:52 AM

And I would advise you, Dave the Gnome, to go a bit further back - (Teribus)

Why on earth would I want to do that?

Possibly to get to the truth of the matter, but no worries Dave, I provided the details of the post by Musktwat which shows who gratuitously started flinging names about. Besides for you to have gone back yourself and checked would have required a bit of honesty and integrity and all too plainly you have demonstrated on numerous occasions you possess neither - no bloody wonder it is so easy to accept that you were "active in the Trades Union movement".

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 03:41 AM

"I provided the details of the post by Musktwat which shows who gratuitously started flinging names about"

Hmmm just this thread then, not previous threads and it's still OK for you to use abuse but not anyone else.

I neither know nor care who started the name calling and abuse and I really don't have the time to trawl back through years of posts to find out.

What I do know is that if you want it to stop continuing to abuse people yourself is not the way forward.

Double standards seem to be at play.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 04:04 AM

Of course all persecution is bad.
This thread highlights the current suffering of Christians because it is exceptional.
You people said that was Islamophobic.
It is not.
Ancient Christian communities are being driven to extinction within a single generation.
As the Pope said, to remain silent is to be complicit.

That is why the BBC is putting out a prime time programme about Christian persecution, and why I am raising it here.

Either everything you accuse me of applies to the BBC, or else you were all wrong to make those accusation.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 04:42 AM

Teribus, you selective C&P says I posted "Why on earth would I want to do that?" when the full post is

Why on earth would I want to do that? It's bad enough having to read the shite pertaining to my own posts without having to read the shite pertaining to anyone else's!

If you look at the full quote anyone can see that the qualifier makes a huge difference. Still, my post of 09 Apr 15 - 05:35 PM to Keith applies equally to you. Apart from, in your case, I think it is your fault.

Carry on posting spite and bile by all means. I believe getting rid of your frustrations in a harmless manner is good for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 04:43 AM

" course all persecution is bad."
Then admit that it is a relgious one and not one of any specific religion - as a Christian (supposedly) you should have the courage to take on the sins committed by your Church - that should be the responsibility of all who decalre themselves Christian.
Instead, you have defended and denied the atrocities committed by both your own Church and those committed in the name of Judiaism.
Yoursis not a religious stance, it is a political one
"Ancient Christian communities" have been responsible for some of the worst crimes in history - your own Church (if you are, as you claim, Church of England, came into being so a debauched pox-riddled English King could get his leg over - which led to thousands upon thousands of non-conformists suffering torture and horrific death - is that a heritage you feel is worth protecting?
People whi are massacred and persecuted are not Christians or Catholics or Pertestants or Jews or Muslims.... - THEY ARE PEOPLE, and defending and lamenting one group while excusing, and eve siding with the persecution and massacre of others is an evil act
How dare you demand sympathy for your particular religious sect after the efforts you have made in supporting the persecution of others by a terrorist state?
It is little wonder that religion is in the sharp decline that it is if you are representative of what it has to offer.
The BBC reports the news - you use that news as a platform for your bigotry and hatred - your comparison is pathertic.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 04:54 AM

Amusing, Dave, that Billy Boy misrepresents using partial quotes whilst accusing me of doing the same thing. As with the name-calling, he seems to think that any behaviour of his, no matter how outrageous, is OK - because it's him.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 05:02 AM

C'est la vie as they say in Scunthorpe.

(Hope this isn't deleted because of THAT word)

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 05:03 AM

Instead, you have defended and denied the atrocities committed by both your own Church and those committed in the name of Judiaism.

You lie about me Jim, as you always do when you lose an argument.
I have never, ever done either of those things and if it is not a lie (and a particularly nasty one) produce an example.

Ancient Christian communities" have been responsible for some of the worst crimes in history

They deserve to die then.
No.
These are some of the poorest, most deprived people in the world and they have never persecuted anyone, and have not committed the worst crimes in history or any crimes at all.

You clearly hate these people, and hate them because of their belief.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 06:49 AM

How ****** dare you - they are ny family, my friends and neighbours - I grew up surrounded by Catholics and I live them on a daily basis
Many of them are "real Christians" - not the squalid plastic substitutes you represent.
Masny of them are far more condemnatory than I am of the Church because they and their children have suffered at the hands of Clerical abusers.
Lose an argument - what argument - you haven't put one up.
You have refused to respond to what I have said and you hide behind your newly assume#d piety to once again defend atrocities.
The poorest and most deprived people in the world are the ones still being exploited by the remnants of Empire in places like Pakistan and India - Marks ad Sparks and Primark are among those who continue to grow wealth on that exploitation.
Once again you make a case for poverty-stricken Christians, ignoring the Muslims and other religions being exploited and terrorised by "The Free West"
Exploited and terrorised people are people, it doesn't matter what religion they are.
One thing is certain, those in trouble because of religious terrorism will receive no welcome in Britain whan they find themselves forced to flee fighting that has been caused largely by the self-interested protectionism of the West, who carefully chose which despots to support and which to oppose.
Nobody deserves to die and you are welcome to present one example ofanybody ever suggesting such a thing on this forum
You are the most vociferous of the tiny handful of individuals who have ever supported state terrorism and mass murder.
Christians like you - I've never met one and I hope I never do
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Musket
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 07:24 AM

Even better. Because of the entertainment listing, everything anybody ever said about Keith apparently applies to The BBC.

Serves 'em right for commissioning Blackadder 😂😂😂

By the way. No Musket has ever name-called anyone. Our policy (15.5 rev3 review 4/16) is to respond in kind with interest at extortionate rates. Bigots pay double.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 07:27 AM

Once again you make a case for poverty-stricken Christians, ignoring the Muslims and other religions being exploited and terrorised

No.
I started a thread about the Muslims suffering in Syria when no-one else wanted to discuss it.
Your only contribution was to use it to attack Britain.

I have highlighted the plight of the Palestinians in the refugee camp near Damascus which no-one else wants to talk about. (I do not mean just the brief reference I made to Yarmouk here.)

I started this thread because the persecution of Christians has reached catastrophic levels in so many places.
To remain silent is to be complicit.
To deny it is worse.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 08:17 AM

" started a thread about the Muslims suffering in Syria when no-one else wanted to discuss it."
Nobody has ever declined to discuss it
What we eanted to do is to put in i context of all religions persecution and have consistently pointed out that it is not exclusive to Muslim extremists - this doesn't suit your hate-agenda and you have persistently attempted to confine it to Christians being the victims.
You have never been prepared to discuss it as religious persecution and you never will as you are incapable of accepting that your own claimed religion is historically the greatest persecutor the world has ever experienced
You one took a thread entitled 'Muslim Persecution' and virually single-handedly made it an attack on Muslims (link you to it if you wish).
All religions persecute, given the opportunity - it is their very nature
Accept it or you are a bigot - which we are all aware of anyway.
Take your insults and your bigotry elsewhere if you are incapable of honesty
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 10:30 AM

Many things go over my head, Musket. It comes with being a Gnome. Very little slips under the radar though :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Musket
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 11:23 AM

I'll bear that in mind, Co messiah emeritus with gnomish attributes....

Talking of low... Interesting set of articles recently in many periodicals pointing out that the high number of Christian slaughter needs analysing in the light of two aspects:

Many of those slaughtered are labelled as Christians. You cannot tally the Muslim factor of the oppressors on the same level as the victims being Christians. After all, if they attacked our village (3,400 people) the press would call us Christians yet 30 seem to be practicing and another seven or so turn up at Easter.

The other aspect is that it is being associated with the West that is the important bit. Terrorists on a jihad mission seem to think that normal people care about religion in the same way they do,whereas most people couldn't give a rats arse over here, so oppression and murdering easy targets in Syria, Nigeria etc, they think we would be upset as "brothers" are slaughtered in the same way a few Muslim kids here think along those lines.

Nobody told them it is sadly about the third news story in on a good day, and happening to foreigners. If they think they will provoke a backlash on the basis of us and them, they have been listening to too many irresponsible church leaders doing their dirty work for them by calling innocent bystanders in the wrong place at the wrong time, martyrs.

Religion is an issue, and the response of church leaders, identifying with one side on the supposition the West in general is into "us and them" is fucking disgraceful.

Yeah, let's talk about religious persecution Keith. You'd have normal people classed as on one side of an irrelevant problem, whereas the awful stance of Welby and other apologists for terror just fan the flames, and they know it.

Martyrs... No. Dead people. Live with it. They can't so do it for them from the comfort of your judgemental armchair.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 01:52 PM

" started a thread about the Muslims suffering in Syria when no-one else wanted to discuss it."
Nobody has ever declined to discuss it

It was not discussed here at all until I started the thread after many months of slaughter.

What you say about the Muslim Persecution thread is a lie.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Musket
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 03:21 PM

Sitting comfortably fuckwit?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 03:28 PM

Keith - you have no interest in "discussing" anything that you can't use as a platform for your own prejudices.
You started the disgusting "Hom's Horror" thread telling us how terrible it was all those people being shot down - until you were informed that the bullets used by the snipers may have come from Britain, as did some of the armoured cars and riot control equipment - then you flipped and the thread became a damage limitation exercise in order to defend Britain's good name
You even went as far as to suggest that it would be fine to sell Assad equipment if it was only for "riot control) - IE to suppress Syria's Arab Spring protesters, which was what they were then.
Yo took a similar stance when Assad started using chemicals on his people - bad, until it was found that Britain sold him chemicals which could have been used in their manufacture - another damage control exercise.
As far as you seem to be concerned, we should discuss these things on your 'crocodile tears' level and make sure the world knows it is the Muslims at it again.
Here, we have the same situation - lament the poor Christians being slaughtered but please don't mention the slaughtering by Christians and other religious bodies - up on your chair, skirts hoisted up and loud shrieks of "thread drift".
Unless we are able to discuss these subjects in context and point the finger, these discussions become nothing more than pointless handkerchief wringing exercises.
Feel free so say what you wish on these topics, but I do with you would stop trying to censor and manipulate what others have to say - you must have been arned about this at least a dozen times.
Something to get your teeth into - the greatest threat of religious persecution over the last century in Western Europe has come from Christian Churches persecuting Christians, including children in their care, "fallen" girls, pregnant women and homosexuals.
Don't suppose you'd care to comment on that - other than to deny it!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 03:51 PM

Jim,
.You started the disgusting "Hom's Horror" thread telling us how terrible it was all those people being shot down

Yes I did and it was.
Where were you?
Trying to find ways to blame the West when the slaughter was being done using Russian, Chinese and Iranian weapons.
We do not make ammunition for those things.

I reopened the thread several times but no-one was interested in massacres for which Israel could not be blamed.
One other person started one other thread with the same result.

Once again you try to demonise me by misrepresenting posts from years ago instead of addressing the issues.
This is what you always do when you can not support your agenda.

Me reopening this thread,
Anti-Christian bigots may use offensive posts to get this thread closed.
Please delete the posts instead.

Musket today,
Sitting comfortably fuckwit?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: akenaton
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 05:15 PM

Yes Keith, it seems strange that these people are allowed to use obscenities and curse other members in almost every thread, without any attempt to seriously discuss the issues.

I simply couldn't be bothered with that sort of behaviour, and I'm sure if I did I would soon receive a PM from admin telling me to stop it or be permanently removed from the forum. It's not as if it's one isolated case.
I think "Team Musket" should be banned until it learns how to behave itself in debate.....then it may be possible that we all learn something from our participation here.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Musket
Date: 11 Apr 15 - 02:56 AM

Musket would have to be posting "criminal communication" which isn't the case.

However, Akenaton's homophobic trades against gay people is. Add the recent claiming Obama is only where he is because of a need for a token black and similar comments about Clinton the token woman and his claim that equality and opportunities in the army being a liberal plot look tame. At least he is leaving travellers and English people residing in Scotland alone whilst he spins on his circle of bigotry.

You really are a simple old fool with a nasty streak aren't you?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Apr 15 - 03:00 AM

The West, or anybody who gave support to Assad, was to blame - anybody.
Britait did what they did - sold armoured cars, ammunition and riot control equipment to a murderous dictator who they knew to have a record of suppression, torture and murder - at a time when Assad's snipers were using mothers carrying children in arms as target practice, you sneered at the sales as "a few sniper rifles" - very Christian and compassionate, I'm sure!!
When he was discovered to have been sold chemicals capable of manufacturing the weapons he was found using on the Syrian population, your response was "he said he was only using it for peaceful purposes" - Christian trust and understanding, I take it?
Nobody supported the sale of weapons and equipment to murderous regime by anybody - you supported its sale by Britain.
The failure of the UN and later, of the Western Powers, to intervene in the war crimes and atrocities committed by Assad on his people, gave impetus for Isis to take advantage to step in and become the threat is now is - the West fully shares the blame for that rise to power.
Britain allows and encourages the sale weapons to mass murderers, terrorist states and feudal dictators, knowing full well their reputations - that is immoral.
I deplore all sales of weapons to anybody, by anybody - it is an abomination.
When it is done on my behalf it is my duty, as a British citizen, to make my disapproval known - not to defend it on the basis that others do it, as you do.
Wonder what happened to the "Thou Shalt Not Kill" part of the Christian creed - unprofitable an inconvenient to some Christians, it would appear, along with "suffer the little children"
A Christian - you must be joking!!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 11 Apr 15 - 05:36 AM

Semantic point on a common misunderstanding:   When Jesus said, as rendered in the AV translation of Luke 18, "Suffer little children to come unto me and forbid them not", the word was used in the old sense of "suffer", meaning "allow"*; nothing to do with "suffering" in the sense of undergoing pain or trouble or other disagreeable experience. All Jesus meant was that people shouldn't try to stop children from approaching him and listening to what he had to tell them; it does not mean that they should be made to undergo anything unpleasant.

A much misunderstood passage which I think it worth elucidating.

≈M≈

*A usage that survived in common use till early C19: cf the poor but dignified Miss Bates in Jane Austen's Emma, when she thinks the apothecary Mr Perry might offer to treat her niece without charge, "But this cannot be suffered, you know. Mr Perry has a family to maintain and is not to be giving away his time."

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Apr 15 - 05:56 AM

I still use the word in that old sense quite frequently. It's us northerners, tha knows. With our dosts, thees and thous too.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 11 Apr 15 - 06:18 AM

I find that of great interest, Steve. I don't think it would still be common linguistic currency here in the effete south! Further drift, re thous & thees &c: My late first wife Valerie came from the Forest of Dean, a Gloucestershire enclave which had bits of surviving dialect of its own in her childhood: she remembered old neighbours who would still say "thee bist" for "you are".

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Apr 15 - 06:40 AM

"the word was used in the old sense of "suffer", meaning "allow"*"
Aware of this Mike - my point being that it doesn't leave a great deal of room for the destruction of hospitals and medical centres housing children, or the use of white phosphorus ("harmless illumination") which burned children s faces to the bone when it was showered down on them in Gaza, both of which this particular 'Christian' has supported on various occasions.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Musket
Date: 11 Apr 15 - 09:20 AM

It would appear that many priests and a number of vicars misunderstood the old meaning of 'suffer"

And there was me thinking they abused children for the fun of it..

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Apr 15 - 10:06 AM

both of which this particular 'Christian' has supported on various occasions.
Lie.
(for the record.)

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Apr 15 - 10:12 AM

You were in denial about the white phosphorus, Keith, and you simply didn't have it in you to say that the IDF should not have used white phosphorus in Gaza. You made up stuff about its not being used as a weapon or something, as I recall. Perhaps you'd condemn its use in so many words if IS used it, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Apr 15 - 10:14 AM

white phosphorus ("harmless illumination")

Faked quote, for the record.

Why do you do it Jim?
Lie about things I did not say years ago.
Why can you never just address the current issues?

Because although you want to, you can't.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Apr 15 - 10:17 AM

But you were in denial about it, Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Apr 15 - 10:18 AM

Keith, and you simply didn't have it in you to say that the IDF should not have used white phosphorus in Gaza.

I DID say they should not have used it in Gaza.
I said I deplored it.

Why no comments from you about barrel bombs and chemical weapons targeted at civilians in Syria for years now.
Why do none of you people speak out against the abominations there that dwarf anything that ever happened in Gaza?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Apr 15 - 10:23 AM

Why do none of you people speak out against the abominations there that dwarf anything that ever happened in Gaza?

There's no secret to the answer to that question.