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BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: GUEST,paco rabanne Date: 30 Jul 09 - 07:37 PM Ah yes... London.. The natural home of our elders and betters! How rude of me to attempt to cross swords with such cosmopolitans! |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: jeddy Date: 30 Jul 09 - 07:41 PM sorry about the spelling mistakes and lack of spacing and punctuaition in my last post. my pc wouldn't let me go back to fix them. btw. we lived in alot of different areas in nottingham for over 7 years. jade x x x x |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: Lox Date: 30 Jul 09 - 07:48 PM "You hippies really have no idea what it's like to live in an English inner city have you? " The evidence above shows your statement was wrong. 2 of us "hippies" live in Inner city London and one lives in inner city Manchester. And those are just the ones who have answered so far. Paco - keep posting. You are saving us the bother of arguing as you embed your foot further and further into your mouth. It must be quite a challenge to maintain that position with your head so firmly jammed where the sun don't shine. |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: GUEST,George Davis Date: 30 Jul 09 - 07:59 PM I think France got it right. Remember the riots a few years ago ? the government there care for their own. Britain really has become a joke in the eyes of Europeans. It has become the walfare state feeding bowl of Europe for any Tom,Dick or Harry who fancies a free house, free medical care, free education and a free handout. If I went to any European country on holiday I have to take out travel insurance in case of illness, why can't this apply to those landing in the UK ? If I presented myself at the dole office in Poland, would they pay for the house of my choice ? send me a load of money each week for doing sod all ? Would they look after my granny if I flew her over to get her corns done ? I know the answers and so do you. It has to stop and the BNP are offering that leadership.
-Joe Offer, Forum Moderator- |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: Lox Date: 30 Jul 09 - 08:03 PM "I think France got it right. Remember the riots a few years ago ? the government there care for their own." Which Riots? How does the French Government care for their own? "Britain really has become a joke in the eyes of Europeans. It has become the walfare state feeding bowl of Europe for any Tom,Dick or Harry who fancies a free house, free medical care, free education and a free handout." Where is your evidence? |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: Spleen Cringe Date: 30 Jul 09 - 08:03 PM According to the 2001 UK census, Hull had a population of 243,589. Of the total population 97.7% were white and the largest minority ethnic group was of 749 people who considered themselves to be ethnically Chinese. There were 3% of people living in Hull who were born outside the United Kingdom. In 2006 the largest minority ethnic grouping was Iraqi Kurds who were estimated at 3,000. Most of these people were placed in the city by the Home Office while their applications for asylum were being processed. Also in 2001, the city had a high proportion, at 6.2%, of people of working age who were unemployed ranking 354th out of 376 local and unitary authorities within England and Wales. Now, you can't really blame the people in paragraph one for the sad situation on paragraph two, can you? Even if you ethnically cleansed the entire city, Hull would still be buggered. Try blaming capitalism rather than your neighbours. Then try joining with them to fight for social justice. Just a thought. |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: Emma B Date: 30 Jul 09 - 08:04 PM 'If I went to any European country on holiday I have to take out travel insurance in case of illness' Well actually you don't! The European Health Insurance Card (EHIC) can be used to cover any necessary medical treatment due to either an accident or illness within the European Economic Area (EEA). The EHIC entitles the holder to state-provided medical treatment within the country they are visiting. |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: Joe Offer Date: 30 Jul 09 - 08:06 PM I remind you again that we do not allow personal attacks, even if you do not happen to like the political party that your opponent represents. Argue from facts, and keep personalities out of it. I'm watching this thread closely and deleting liberally. In addition, please be aware that the BNP discussion will be confined to one, and only one thread. If there's a need for a new thread, establish a consensus in the current thread regarding the need for a new thread - and then let me know about it. I'll close the existing thread and then you can start the new one. Any BNP thread established outside this guideline, will be deleted or combined with the existing thread. I sympathize with all the Mudcatters who oppose the BNP, and that is the vast majority of us. However, I can't allow this forum to be ruled by hysteria and personal attacks, even if the hysteria and personal attacks purport to support a noble cause. In my view, if you feel you must use bullying and other strongarm tactics to oppose the BNP, you're just playing the game by their rules - and you've already lost. If your messages contain bullying and strongarm tactics, your mesages will be deleted. -Joe Offer, Forum Moderator- |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: Lox Date: 30 Jul 09 - 08:13 PM Travelling to Poland on holiday? If you are an EU citizen (including British) you are entitleds to free health care. Evidence here "Medical facilities and standards of health care are good, but not many nurses or doctors speak English. It is advisable to have an European Health Insurance Card (EHIC) in case of a medical emergency. Free emergency treatment is available to visitors from the European Union and several countries with which Poland has signed international agreements (Albania, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, Montenegro, Russia and Serbia). EU nationals are required to produce a valid European Health Insurance Card (EHIC)" Here's another useful link. Poland - EU nationals free to enter and work without Visa |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: Lox Date: 30 Jul 09 - 08:40 PM But why would any Brit want to work in Poland? Aren't they all trying to get out of a poor decaying weak ewconomy so they can sponge off us? Isn't it true that they envy the strength and stability of the British economy? Well maybe the reason why Poles are returning and why Brits might wish to work there is "At present Poland is the only Eastern European nation to avoid recession, with the economy growing by 0.8% in the first quarter." Source |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: Joe Offer Date: 30 Jul 09 - 08:57 PM Yes, the economic situation in Poland isn't very good, but there are a lot of interesting things happening there. There are lots of risks involved, but there are lots of opportunities. Poland is a beautiful, fascinating country. I could picture myself living there. If you're an entrepreneur or a good manager and you have what it takes to make a business a success, you might find opportunities in Poland that you wouldn't find anywhere else. I've been there twice, and I want to go back again and see the western part of the country. -Joe- Oh, and the folk music and folk dancing are wonderful, especially in the Tatras. Hey, and it's the only place in Europe where the price of beer is still reasonable. |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: Royston Date: 31 Jul 09 - 03:19 AM Ken / Russ Meyer / George Davis et al: If I presented myself at the dole office in Poland, would they pay for the house of my choice ? send me a load of money each week for doing sod all ? Would they look after my granny if I flew her over to get her corns done ? I know the answers and so do you Actually we do know the answers and you don't. Others have blown your medical entitlement claim out of the water. As an EU citizen with an E101 card you would be entitled to Polish social security. Go to www.zus.pl and choose English (they like to make sure that we can access the entitlement information) and browse away. |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: akenaton Date: 31 Jul 09 - 03:34 AM The arguments for and against mass economic immigration seem to be the contentious factor in this discussion, but they are not being addressed. People seem determined to make this an issue of racial bigotry...I have heard no one on this thread denigrate others because of their race. Mr Griffin may be a racist but the the BNP members here seem to be arguing on specific issues. I hold Mr Blair and Mr Brown personally responsible for our completely illiberal and illegal attack on another nation and complicite in the deaths of perhaps a million people, yet I hear no abuse of people who still support the Labour Party! Once again I smell a witch hunt on these pages! I recognise only one racist on this forum, and that person is surely neither sane or British. There is a part of the UK in which the society is so deeply divided that huge concrete walls have had to be erected between the different sections to keep them from shooting one another through their kitchen windows....yet no comment from the "liberals"....is it because both sections are "white" and not covered by current "liberal" dogma? This thread is completely out of proportion to its importance, The UK will never become another "Reich" and you all know that very well, times and methods of mass communication have changed...you are simply posturing...parading your "liberal credentials" before an easy target. Why dont you wisen-up and start acting like real liberals, there are a host of causes which could benefit from your energy.....shame to waste it all on mutual masturbation......:0) Ake |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: Richard Bridge Date: 31 Jul 09 - 03:42 AM The BNP have two MEP's - Griffin and Bron. Not four. In their voting regions the actual number of BNP votes fell. The reason the Polish economy is not splattered (Joe, relatively it is doing better than the rest of Europe) is because they did not deregulate banks like the rest of Europe (and the USA). The Polish land market however is being driven by speculators and developers who will soon destroy most of Poland's architectural heritage if they are not stopped. |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: akenaton Date: 31 Jul 09 - 03:50 AM Just as a footnote, I live near a small town on the Firth of Clyde, to which I travel daily on personal business and shopping, I've noticed in the last few years a huge increase in numbers of Eastern Europeans who all appear to be members of large family groups. Most of these immigrants are employed on very low paid jobs in local fish farms ect.....the wages offered by these employers woul hardly keep a single man never mind a man with a wife and small children. Something just does not add up, this immigration was encouraged by the Blair government to "keep wage rates competitive in a global market", but obviously like other New Labour policies it has not been thought through....the cost of keeping those competitive wage rates are being more than cancelled out by benefit payments. The economics of the madhouse! This post is for information only! |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: Royston Date: 31 Jul 09 - 04:02 AM Akenaton The arguments for and against mass economic immigration seem to be the contentious factor in this discussion, but they are not being addressed But the point is that this idea of "mass immigration" and "swamping" is a total fantasy. It isn't happening and that has been demonstrated by the production of evidence on several occasions in this and other related threads. People seem determined to make this an issue of racial bigotry But that is the issue. Proof has also been provided that the BNP is a racist and fascist party based on the German Nazi model. It lies about its ambitions and true policies (specific proof has already been given). As I have said before, there is nothing wrong with being worried about immigration and social change but people need to bring those worries out for proper discussion. The proper response of a genuinely concerned decent person is not to vote for the next Adolf Hitler to be PM of our great nation. This is about the BNP and how dangerous its ideas are. Some people think it is innocuous. Proof to the contrary is provided. Now if these supporters are "decent" they would be considering their position of support quite carefully. Yet they ignore all evidence and continue their support for what they now know to be a neo-nazi fascist party. Therefore I do say that these people *are* racists and fascists. That is a fair and reasonable conclusion on the evidence of their own behaviour. All their arguments are stripped away to the point there is only one conclusion left that explains their position. There is a part of the UK in which the society is so deeply divided that huge concrete walls have had to be erected between the different sections to keep them from shooting one another through their kitchen windows....yet no comment from the "liberals"....is it because both sections are "white" and not covered by current "liberal" dogma? That sentence should be in the past tense, referring to the situation in Northern Ireland. And the left/liberals were active in seeking an end to that as well. It took a left-ish conservative PM and a labour government to bring it to something approximating an end. There's little point discussing 20th Century history in the context of this thread. This thread is completely out of proportion to its importance, The UK will never become another "Reich" and you all know that very well No, this country will never become another Reich because most British people are decent and fair-minded and because enough of us will ensure that the BNP lies are exposed for their horrible reality. |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: Royston Date: 31 Jul 09 - 04:07 AM Ake Most of these immigrants are employed on very low paid jobs in local fish farms ect In the Southeast of England we have a lot of Eastern European workers because local unemployed Brits see the work as beneath them. Farmers employ through agencies in Poland and often provide static caravans for worker-accommodation. Most of the work is at, or slightly above, minimum wage. So unless your local fish-farmers are breaking UK law (min wage) then their migrant workers are getting what HM government considers a fair living wage for all adults on these isles. |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: akenaton Date: 31 Jul 09 - 04:16 AM Royston....thank you for responding civilly but,much of what you write is factually incorrect or exaggerated. I don't have time to answer your all your points in detail, but have another look at the situation in Northern Ireland and you will see it is still very much a 21st century problem, its society as divided as ever, the "peace wall" still stands and sectarian murders on the increase again. I tried to explain, the followers of any given party do not necessarily follow blindly the opinions of its leader.....we are all an amalgamation of many opinions some good some bad. These opinions only become a danger to society when they are concealed under the label of something else.....as in... free speech/thought must be supressed in the name of Liberalism. |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: akenaton Date: 31 Jul 09 - 04:34 AM ROYSTON....Without wishing to be "offensive", have you ever tried to live on the minimum wage?.....if you are a young single man it might give you some quality of life....if you live with your parents! If you are married with a couple of kids you take top-up benefits worth more in real terms than your wages(after deductions)....or starve! Blairs policy of encouraging immigration as a way of cutting the National wage bill was indeed the economics of the madhouse, while at the same time encouraging bank the deregulation which led to our current economic collapse. A "left leaning liberal government"......Dont make me fuckin' laugh! |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: Spleen Cringe Date: 31 Jul 09 - 04:43 AM Ake, I absolutely agree that free speech and thought must be defended otherwise we play into the hands of those who use suppression of ideas against us. That's why I'm against calling on the state to ban fascist organisations because historically those are same the powers the state readily uses to suppress dissent and radicalism. Ordinary people using their own power of thought, word and deed to oppose and expose fascism for what it is at a grassroots level is an entirely different matter. Part of the process is discourse and the battle of ideas. Personally I will use some of my own free speech to counter the views of divisive, authoritarian organisations who use their freedom of speech to promote themselves dishonestly in order further their visions of a fascist state. Luckily, we aren't in the position the Spanish found themselves in in the thirties and I agree that we are unlikely to be. Part of ensuring that is to continue to nip the ideas of the far right in the bud with better counter arguments... |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: GUEST, Richard Bridge on new desktop Date: 31 Jul 09 - 04:52 AM Actually, Ake, when I first got onto lecturing, by the time I had paid for my travel, and allowed for travelling time and preparation time, I was working for well below minimum wage. But you miss the point. The workers you object to should be getting the same wage as anyone else on the minimum wage. Insofar as that minimum wage suffices for indigenous labour it likewise suffices for non-indigenous labour. Family credit and so on assist on a means-tested basis, in general without regard to origin, which is again right. You do however correctly identify that the taxpayer, via tax, subsidises the low-wage economy (so enabling employers to pay low wages) to the benefit of capital, so the government is playing Robin Hood in reverse - steal from the poor, give to the rich. However, if you argue that guestworkers should not receive the same consideration as indigenes, then I regret to say that that appears to be a discrimination based on race. Really must do some work - I was just adding another PC to the network and got sidetracked. |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: fairplay Date: 31 Jul 09 - 05:00 AM Some posts have depicted BNP members as 'knuckle-dragging skinhead thugs' or similar. I've never met a BNP member AFAIK but I did look at a video of some green conference on their website and they looked and sounded like intelligent professionals who would be an asset to any party. |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: Royston Date: 31 Jul 09 - 05:02 AM Ake, Don't make me regret responding civilly to you. No I have never had to try, fortunately, living on the minimum wage. My point is that Eastern European workers cannot *legally* be treated any worse than an indigenous worker. Lots of folk have to eke out an existence on minimum wage, my point is to ask why should we regard Polish min wage workers with suspicion? As you said that, for Polish workers "Something doesn't add up". In my experience of living cheek by jowl with Polish migrants and counting a few of them as friends (some of the mudcatters have met at least one of my Polish friends and his wife and baby daughter), I would suggest that they come here for jobs they sourced through contacts or Polish agencies and have assistance from their employers with accommodation. Or they club together to live in close-quarters in cheap private-sector rented housing. Then they work bloody hard to improve their lot. I thought I was being sarcastic enough in describing min wage as "What HM government considers fair..." I would be happy to be even less subtle in future; just let me know what you prefer. I am not left-leaning or politically liberal, I am a socialist. I vote for socialist-values candidates whenever one is available to me - that is normally 'Left List' or Green Party. Otherwise I vote Liberal as the best of a bad lot. One thing I will agree on with many here is that Labour sold itself down the river in 1993/4 and should be ashamed to call itself "Labour" |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: akenaton Date: 31 Jul 09 - 05:17 AM Richard come on! I agree with you on most things, but you know I did not mean immigrants or their families should be deprived of a living wage or benefits if they require them. The problems are all symptoms of mad government policy which Blair was composing "on the hoof" in the days when he and the New Labour Project were seen as the saviours of humanity. In fact all they did this fine "left leaning liberal govt" was discredit us in the eye of world as bloodthirsty warmongers and saddle our children and grandchildren with a National Debt which will make their lives very unpleasant indeed, while Fuhrer Blair earns millions, is employed as a "peace envoy":0) and is being touted as the next president of the EU!! Time to re-set your guns you mighty hunters after truth and justice....get you priorities right! |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: akenaton Date: 31 Jul 09 - 05:22 AM As far as I can see the point I made above about mad govt policy is the same as is being made by th BNP members on this thread. |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: GUEST,Russ Meyer Date: 31 Jul 09 - 05:26 AM Emma, wrong wrong wrong "The European Health Insurance Card (EHIC) can be used to cover any necessary medical treatment due to either an accident or illness within the European Economic Area (EEA). The EHIC entitles the holder to state-provided medical treatment within the country they are visiting." It's a patch up job ONLY. Just checked, if you need a major operation,your heart packs in, you stroke and it could cost you a leg ! Facts my dear, always check first before posting. |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: Royston Date: 31 Jul 09 - 06:40 AM Ake, As far as I can see the point I made above about mad govt policy is the same as is being made by th BNP members on this thread. But unlike the BNP members you haven't (I presume) concluded that the right medicine to heal the body-politic or a fractured society is a lethal dose of cyanide or the nuclear option (voting BNP). |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: Richard Bridge Date: 31 Jul 09 - 06:49 AM Well, ake, assuming that you DON'T mean that the immigrants should not get benefits to which eveyone else is entitled, then no, your policy is not the same as the BNP. I hope your policy is "a living wage, and if necessary, a safety net from all". It doesn't read that way above. AFAIK the BNP policy is "a living wage for white English and other similar racial groups as defined in our membership policy - but no others" However, yes, the right-turns and lies of B. Liar were and remain sickening - but less sickening than the BNP, most of whom are knuckle-dragging unintelligent thugs. |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: Royston Date: 31 Jul 09 - 07:05 AM Well Russ, I've been on the NHS website. Don't know what site you were on. The EHIC card entitles UK citizens to the same treatment in an EEA country as a resident of that country. So you are lying aren't you? If I have a heart attack in Romania I get the same state treatment as any other citizen of that country. It's all on the website. In some EEA countries there are patient charges - like we have - for medicines, prosthesis, dentistry etc etc but these apply equally to us as they do to local citizens. UK citizens may be entitled to recover those in-country charges from the NHS on return to the UK. We are entitled, for instance to go to Cyprus and have our teeth fixed (so long as we don't need dentures) at a flat-cost of EUR2 per visit. Bargain. A Cypriot coming here would have to pay our high NHS dentistry charges then recover the cost from his or her own government on return. PROOF NHS WEBSITE More to the point, we have reciprocal healthcare arrangements with a lot of non EEA countries. Proof is on the link above. Below is a list of reciprocating countries. Russ, how can it be that absolutley everything you ever say turns out to be untrue. Even on random pot-luck I'd have thought you might occasionally stumble upon a fact or two. List of Non-EEA countries that have reciprocal healthcare arrangements with the UK: A-J Anguila Armenia Australia Azerbaijan Barbados Belarus Bosnia and Herzegovina British Virgin Islands Croatia Falkland Islands Georgia Gibraltar Isle of Man List of Non-EEA countries that have reciprocal healthcare arrangements with the UK: K-Z Kazakhstan Kyrgyzstan Macedonia Moldova Montserrat New Zealand Russia St Helena Serbia and Montenegro Tajikistan Turkmenistan Turks and Caicos Islands Uzbekistan Ukraine |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: akenaton Date: 31 Jul 09 - 08:17 AM Richard..my policy is that encouragement of immigration as a method of wage control is bad economically and bad socially, by that I mean the policy is sure to cause racial tension. I've never read any of Mr Griffins speeches but I will take your word that he is a racist....that does not make anyone who supports any particular policy of the BNP automatically racist. My policy would be misunderstood by many here as anti -immigration and therefore racist....but as an intelligent guy with a very good grasp of the machinations of politicians, I hope you personally understand that I am about as far from racism as it is possible to get. One of my best friends in an area that almost completely "white" is a very dark skinned Indian from Goa. |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: Lox Date: 31 Jul 09 - 09:39 AM Ake "encouragement of immigration as a method of wage control" Where is the evidence of this? "As far as I can see the point I made above about mad govt policy is the same as is being made by th BNP members on this thread." And the thing it has in common with their points is that it remains unsupported by any evidence. Fairplay "they looked and sounded like intelligent professionals who would be an asset to any party." Are there any examples of this? so far the only examples provided here demonstrate the opposite. Minimum wage is currently £5.70 an hour, set to go up to £5.80 in october. 40 hours a week and you earn £232 a week = 12,064 per year. Add working tax credit and child tax credit ... for a family with one working parent and one stay at home parent of two children with the above income this works out at £5014.73 working and child tax credit calculator Total income = £12,064 + £5014.73 = £17,078.73 If your earned income is less than £15,000 per annum you can also apply for asistance from housing benefit. When I was on income support in London, I received around 17,500 a year in total icluding every type of benefit available including tax credit, child benefit, council tax benefit, housing benefit etc. Thats in London. A working family in London receiving the minimum wage could expect their housing allowance to bump their income up to around 20,000 a year. Then there's child benefit etc which you receive regardless of your income. The point is that you get more if you work and receive minimum wage than you do if you are on benefits. A two parent family would not qualify for income support as only one is considered necessary to care for children - unless the working parent has already contributed significanty to their national insurance.- ie unless they have already been working for years. Myth No. 2 - you get more for signing on than you do for working on minimum wage. Ake - have you ever worked for the minimum wage? Have you ever survived solely on benefits? |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: Lox Date: 31 Jul 09 - 09:43 AM The final point of my previous post is that a 2 parent family would not qualify to live off the state so that is also a Myth put about to create resentment. For the purposes of this thread, I don't care who is or isn't a racist, but the views being shared on the subject of sponging immigrants on the one hand and the pointlessness of working on the other are unsupported and uninformed fiction. |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: Lox Date: 31 Jul 09 - 09:45 AM So what is the incentive to work? Your income will go up. |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: Lox Date: 31 Jul 09 - 10:45 AM BTW I would gladly contribute to a discussion on the failings of the Labour Government and would offer my pennorth on their shortcomings. That however would be a different discussion. This thread (as can be seen fairly explicitly in the title) is about the BNP. It asked the question "why have they gained votes?" to which thwe first obvious answer is that they haven't. Their supporters, ignoring this, then went on to argue that their support is due to the consequences of immigration. They argue that immigration causes unemployment as migrants come and take British Jobs. They also claim that Migrants put a strain on the economy as they come here and sponge of the state. There is no evidence to support these views. Lots of evidence has been provided to refute these views. So if these arguments have been dismantled so easily and repeatedly, what reasons are left to support the BNP? Why cling on so tenaciously to a party whose view of Britain has been so clearly shown to be a fiction? Why regurgitate views that have been disproved time and time again? I'll tell you why - because when you hate people you will use any lie or excuse to be rid of them. And the BNP and their supporters are full of hatred. They will cling on to their ideology and blame foreigners no matter what arguments or evidence are presented to them. And they will lie to anyone that will listen, especially someone vulnerable to get their support and to try and get them to hate foreigners too. We may like to think that we are so much better than the Germans of the 1930's or the Hutus of Rwanda or the Hans of Urumqi, or any other of a million ethnic groups that have at some point reached a criyical mass in terms of nationalist hatred of another group, but perhaps that is exactly what we need to be alert to. We are all human and all capable of getting whipped up into a destructive frenzy and we must always be vigilant that our siciety does not make the same mistakes as before. Democracy as we know it is a recent phenomenon. The absence of war in western Europe is a recent phenomenon. We live in politically luxurious times. The only insurance that we have against the regression of society is our own participation in democracy. Therefore we need to guard against Apathy and racist lies to ensure the longevity of our freedom. The wolf is ever at our door and in this country one of its manifestations is the BNP. We may not be happy with Lib Lab or Tory, but our current political reality is a million miles better than our ancestors of 60 years ago and before that. The BNP represents a return to the Jungle. |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: Paco Rabanne Date: 31 Jul 09 - 05:43 PM Boing, said Zebedee. |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: MartinRyan Date: 31 Jul 09 - 08:17 PM Paco Well said! Regards |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: GUEST,Russ Meyer Date: 31 Jul 09 - 08:18 PM Give me a nudge when this is all over, it's like listening to grass growing, pulling your own teeth out would be less painless than this thread. We have had runs over the years that were boring, over worked, senseless, anti Irish, pro Irish, anti Bush, Martin Gibson, that stupid one about him with the rug on his head who appeared in Star trek and Michael Jackson. This one wins hands down at insulting, swearing, cut & paste, breaking cat rules and people having to take their trousers down to talk. Please give it a nice funeral and in doing so it will extend all our lives. |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: MartinRyan Date: 31 Jul 09 - 08:24 PM Lest we forget... Regards |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: Lox Date: 31 Jul 09 - 08:42 PM I love the Magic roundabout. I loved the film - dougal and the blue cat. Remember? Buxton the blue cat wanted everyone to be blue and if you weren't blue you had to go to prison. There was a character called the Blue Voice who's line was "Blue is beautiful, blue is best. I'm blue, I'm beautiful, I'm best ..." It was a superb way of teaching kids about both the absurdity and the cruelty of Fascism. I remember at the age of 5 or 6 being extremely upset by this scene in particular, in which florence and her friends are imprisoned in the dungeons for not being blue. Florence |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: fairplay Date: 01 Aug 09 - 02:31 AM Richard's effective likening of BNP members to apes (knuckle-dragging) sounds like the biological racism that used to be directed against the Irish. This constant stream of insults, demonisation and dehumanisation is ever the totalitarian's prelude to mass murder. Quite a few here have hinted at just that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: Royston Date: 01 Aug 09 - 03:05 AM So, just for the record, when all the BNP lies get shot down in flames with FACT, all they've got left is: "Give me a nudge when this is all over, it's like listening to grass growing, pulling your own teeth out would be less painless than this thread." And some people would vote for this???? |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: akenaton Date: 01 Aug 09 - 03:26 AM Lox....Your last pile of posts keep asking for evidence of political motives, well you must be very politically naive if you think political parties in power will attach an information sheet to their legislation explaining its true purpose. Sometime, no matter how difficult it may be, we just have to use our brains....Politicians use code to disguise what they intend(another example of "Double think" or "Newspeak" and how "Liberal" govts use Orwellian methods to manipulate society), in this particular case, I think the phrase used all over the media was "we need to encourage immigrants to these shores in order that the UK can remain competitive in a Global Economy" I repeat, immigration used as a tool to control wage rates is bad policy, in fact immigration used as a tool in any sense is always storing up trouble for the future. The immigration issue should be handled sensitively and thoughtfully.....something which seems quite impossible for polititians. |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: fairplay Date: 01 Aug 09 - 04:05 AM Even if all the copy-and-paste smears about BNP extremism were true, they would pale into insignificance in comparison with the prospect of demographic change facing Europe, especially where that has an Islamic dimension. England's major cities will cease to be predominantly English. Europe will not be the same place with different people. |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: Gervase Date: 01 Aug 09 - 04:14 AM even if? They are, and they are far more of a threat to liberty and a decent way of life than the ethnic make-up of the UK. |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: Royston Date: 01 Aug 09 - 06:14 AM Even if... Fairplay, what planet are you from? Copy and paste from the BNP manifesto. Video's of NICK GRIFFIN explaining IN HIS OWN WORDS his plans for lying about his true agenda until he gets into power. What more do you want? Either you are stupid or you actually rather sympathise with Nick's "White power, send 'em all home on on the end of a boot" agenda. Grow the balls to be honest enough to tell us which you are. |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: jeddy Date: 01 Aug 09 - 06:23 AM fairplay, i don't think you and the rest of us are living in the same country! i think that whatever drugs you are on, you need to stop man. they are clearly making you delusional and paranoid. wow i never thought i would be telling anybody that!! i can only think of one town that might seem like it has been 'swamped' but that has more to do with the local council placing restrictions on people and writing road signs in different languages than it does with the amount of immigrants there. i can see why some people have a problem with those who do not try to learn the language, which is just bad manners really, but that problem is in reverse when any of the british or english go abroad too. take care all jade x x x x x |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: fairplay Date: 01 Aug 09 - 06:43 AM How many countries have or value liberty? |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: GUEST,William Kimber Date: 01 Aug 09 - 07:16 AM I just popped in to have a free reed . . . . .. |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: Royston Date: 01 Aug 09 - 07:21 AM Fairplay, If you have a point, then make it. Liberty is subjective, no society allows unfettered liberty. Anyway, how about answering the questions stacked up at your door before starting some new avoidance tactics. |
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Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes? From: Lox Date: 01 Aug 09 - 08:25 AM "Lox....Your last pile of posts keep asking for evidence of political motives" No - where people make claims or assert an opinion, I ask them to back up their opinion with evidence. So far on this thread, the Anti BNP posters have provided a wealth of evidence to suppport their opinions. The pro BNP posters have provided none. Likewise, there has been no evidence provided to support the view that immigration is responsible for any legal reduction in wages, nor that it is responsible for unemployment, nor that Immigrants sponge off the state. These things may happen, and if they do there will be examples/evidence. In the absence of reliable evidence we can only conclude that such allegations are fiction. There is a large gap between the two following statements. "we need to encourage immigrants to these shores in order that the UK can remain competitive in a Global Economy" and "immigration used as a tool to control wage rates" Their meanings are significantly different. The government may have issued the first statement. The second statement comes from you. Your point of view is that the government uses immigration as a tool to bring wage rates down. The government may spin or lie or sing nursery rhymes, but this has no bearing on whether or not your point of view is supported. Do you have any evidence to suport your point of view? "Sometime, no matter how difficult it may be, we just have to use our brains" Thank you for that helpful advice - I'l bear it in mind. |