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BS: Senate Seat for Sale
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Subject: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: SINSULL Date: 09 Dec 08 - 11:47 AM http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28139155/ I can honestly say that I never suspected that such corruption is possible. How do these people sleep at night? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Wesley S Date: 09 Dec 08 - 12:06 PM What an idiot. What made him think that he wouldn't get caught? I hope we get to hear the names of anyone who made him an offer too. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Rapparee Date: 09 Dec 08 - 12:16 PM Jesse Jackson, Jr. approached him but I don't know any more than that. Look: this is Illinois politics. This is the dude who lived in Chicago and worked in Springfield and so he flew to and from (at State expense) so that he could be home every night (instead of living in the very nice Governor's Mansion). Ryan, the previous governor, is in jail for corruption; so was Richard Ogilvie. Paul Powell, Secretary of State back in the late 60s/early 70s, was found to have shoeboxes full of cash money in his apartment after he died. This is the State of King Richard I, the State in whose favor the US Supreme Court ruled when the systems of nepotism and favoritism in use were challenged. This is the State of Tony Resko. This is the state of four Presidents: Lincoln, Grant, Reagan, and now Obama. Welkome, Bienvenue, Welcome To Illinois, to the politics, Of Illinois. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Riginslinger Date: 09 Dec 08 - 12:25 PM I think John McCain talked about politicians from Chicago during the campaign. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Rapparee Date: 09 Dec 08 - 12:36 PM Sorry -- Ogilvie wasn't among them.... Three former Illinois governors have gone to prison in the past 35 years. -Otto Kerner, a Democrat who was governor from 1961 to 1968, served less than a year of a three-year sentence after his 1973 conviction on bribery, tax evasion and other counts. He was convicted of arranging favorable horse racing dates as governor in return for getting horse racing association stock at reduced prices. Kerner died in 1976. -Dan Walker, a Democrat who was governor from 1973 to 1977, served 1 1/2 years of a seven-year sentence after pleading guilty in 1987 to bank fraud, misapplication of funds and perjury. The charges were not related to his service as governor. -George Ryan, a Republican who was governor from 1999 to 2003, was convicted of corruption in 2006 for steering state contracts and leases to political insiders while he was Illinois secretary of state and then governor. He is serving a 6 1/2-year prison term. In addition, William Stratton, governor from 1953-1961, was later indicted but was acquitted on charges of income tax evasion. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: SINSULL Date: 09 Dec 08 - 12:42 PM I wonder if their cells are anything like the nightmare at Reikers? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: pdq Date: 09 Dec 08 - 01:00 PM Grant - born and raised in Ohio, nothing to do with Illinois. Lincoln - born in Kentucky, lived in rural Illinois. Reagan - from the state, but moved to California in the 1930s. Preferred to live in semi-rural area if he could. A fine horseman, something that few people in Chicago politicians can claim. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: SINSULL Date: 09 Dec 08 - 01:02 PM OOPS Rikers One ray of hope - Obama was putting forward his candidate of choice but they refused to give anything but a thank you. "**** that" was the governor's reply. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Rapparee Date: 09 Dec 08 - 01:02 PM Grant -- lived, worked, and was elected from Galena. Lincoln -- lived, worked, and was elected from the Springfield area. Reagan -- we're trying for forget about him. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Stilly River Sage Date: 09 Dec 08 - 01:02 PM Link to ABC news. Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich wanted President-elect Barack Obama "to put something together…something big" in exchange for going along with Obama's choice to fill his vacant U.S. Senate seat, according to a FBI affidavit unsealed following the Governor's stunning arrest. "I've got this thing and it's f***ing golden, and, uh, uh, I'm just not giving it up for f***in' nothing. I'm not gonna do it. And I can always use it. I can parachute me there," Blagojevich said in a phone call secretly recorded by the FBI on Nov. 5, the day after the election, according to the affidavit. "It is conduct that would make Lincoln roll over in his grave," said U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald in announcing the charges today in Chicago. He said the Governor's efforts to "sell" the Senate seat was the "most sinister and appalling" of a range of alleged corrupt acts detailed in today's case. the rest is on the page linked at the top. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Riginslinger Date: 09 Dec 08 - 01:19 PM I wonder if Obama made a counter offer? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Bobert Date: 09 Dec 08 - 01:23 PM Ho-hum... I mean, lets get real here folks... Thos current governemnt we have is corrupt from top to bottom... Our sheriff, Danny Presgraves, here in Page County, Va. is facing 22 felony charges... And let me throw this out... Had the FBI, the IRS and the US Justice Department investigated Dick Cheney over the awarding of contracts to Halliburton then the indictments would sound just about the same, including all the bleepin' bleeps... There is a "culture" that is firmly entangled in our corrupt system where every Senator has to raise $8000 a day just to have enough money to finance the next cmapaign... Until we figure out ways to elect peole without them having to raise so much money then I think it is incongruous for us to blame people who get caught doin' purdy much what the $yStem expects and demands... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Big Mick Date: 09 Dec 08 - 01:38 PM Mary, m'luv, please. You lived in NYC. Of course you knew that such corruption existed. Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Dan Schatz Date: 09 Dec 08 - 01:50 PM Thus far, Jackson Jr. doesn't seem to be connected with this - there is some hint that an Illinois house member may have been prepared to pay cash up front, but it's way too early to tell. What does seem to be clear is that the Obama administration wasn't willing to play along. Obama apparently did have a favorite candidate, a top aide, but wouldn't offer Blagojevich anything for it. As others have said, Blagojevich didn't take to this too kindly. "They're not willing to give me anything except appreciation. [Expletive] them," is the exact quote, according to Politico. He also referred to Obama as a "mother[expletive]er" and said, "For nothing? [Expletive] him." So the Republican's already evident attempts to somehow connect the President-elect with this scandal seem doomed from the outset. Obama comes out smelling like a rose. Still, I imagine Obama woke to this news thinking, "This I don't need." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Barry Finn Date: 09 Dec 08 - 01:58 PM "I wonder if Obama made a counter offer?" Maybe he did & that's what got him busted? Bastard should start breaking rock in Yuma, put him on a chain gang Barry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: kendall Date: 09 Dec 08 - 02:06 PM One of the many good things about Maine is, we have never had such a scumbag in any of our offices. The worst one I can think of, Peter Kyros, was convicted of DUI. Come to think of it, so was Bush. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Bill D Date: 09 Dec 08 - 02:10 PM Blagojevich did his shenanigans in the purview of US Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald....his ass is grass, and Ramsey operates the lawnmowers... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Dan Schatz Date: 09 Dec 08 - 02:17 PM Here is a link to the actual indictment. Dan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 09 Dec 08 - 03:15 PM Dan, that can't be all of it. It gives only two Counts, and perhaps two (I didn't count) pages. The video comments of the prosecuting attorney mentioned seventy-six pages! And the one you linked to makes no mention of the Senate-seat sale. Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: JohnInKansas Date: 09 Dec 08 - 03:23 PM Not much to say that would add to the opinion, but a technical correction is in order: Bastard should start breaking rock in Yuma, put him on a chain gang Ain't no rocks big 'nuff to break in Yuma. It's all just little pebbles that float to the top of the sand - that they call "desert pavement." Only thing for jailbirds to do there is "stack sand" and sweat. The "historic" territorial prison would be an appropriate place for this guy; but some renovation would be needed since a couple of the walls fell down. Same as for the troops stationed at the Ordnance Test Base there, where I spent most of a two year tour. (But we had big trucks to test for amusement, and a bar at the "club" on post.) John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Dan Schatz Date: 09 Dec 08 - 03:26 PM Weird, Dave. I click on that link and get the full 78 pages - but it may be scrolled down to the end. Try scrolling up and see if the rest of it's there. It's fascinating reading. Dan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 09 Dec 08 - 03:52 PM I didn't go far enough. However, the Indictment was only two pages, and didn't mention the Senate seat. The affidavit in support of the Indictment made up the rest of the PDF. Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: SINSULL Date: 09 Dec 08 - 03:57 PM Mick - I nearly cried when I read that article. Nothing in this country is sacred anymore. I don't believe I know anyone capable of selling a seat in the Senate. It is so obcene. Or maybe i am too naive for words. Is this not akin to treason? Couldn't we just shoot anyone involved? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: JohnInKansas Date: 09 Dec 08 - 04:08 PM The "full indictment" is a .pdf, at least at the link in the msnbc article. Right click on the link, and "save target as" to get the whole .pdf document on your own computer, where you can open it and browse in it without "connection delays." It's 75 pages, but only 316 KB. This should work the same: PDF of full indictment *** *** *** It appears that the gov was just "carrying on Illinois tradition." See: Illinois has long legacy of public corruption at msnbc. The affidavit includes a number of additional charges, aside from the offer to sell the Senate position. It likely will be a long and expensive trial ... unless they find a judge that works cheaply enough. (some are included among the "influenced" at the last link) John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Riginslinger Date: 09 Dec 08 - 04:14 PM Word on the street is Rod Blagojevich is about to appoint Sarah Palin to the Senate. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Rapparee Date: 09 Dec 08 - 04:16 PM Oh yeah, it does. It's 76 pages long and Section 116 states: 116. In addition, in the course of the conversations over the last month, ROD BLAGOJEVICH has spent significant time weighing the option of appointing himself to the open Senate seat, and has expressed a variety of reasons for doing so, including frustration at being "stuck" as governor, a belief that he will be able to obtain greater resources if he is indicted as a sitting Senator as opposed to a sitting governor, and a desire to remake his image in consideration of a possible run for President in 2016, avoid impeachment by the Illinois legislature, make corporate contacts that would be of value to him after leaving public office, facilitate his wife's employment as a lobbyist, and assist in generating speaking fees should he decide to leave public office. Talk about thinking too much of yourself! I also think that the "President-elect" (as he is called in the document) must have given the green light for this. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: VirginiaTam Date: 09 Dec 08 - 04:25 PM Clearly the bastard's wife is as guilty. Can't tell me she didn't have knowledge of his dirty dealings if he was trying to finagle high paying job for her. Is she being questioned? What kind of responsibility can the state and federal government place on her for knowing and not reporting such nefarious behaviour in an elected official? Or is Illinois one of those backward states where a wife is not permitted to testify against husband? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: pdq Date: 09 Dec 08 - 04:38 PM "Or is Illinois one of those backward states where a wife is not permitted to testify against husband?" Are you sure that is what you intended to say? Imagine divorce court if the wife is not permitted to testify against her husband. I believe the concept is 'a wife cannot be forced to testify against husband'. Seems unlikely that she would, either, but the evidence may be strong enough that she may want to plea bargain. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Dan Schatz Date: 09 Dec 08 - 04:41 PM Not only did she know about it; apparently she was actually in on some of the phone calls. They also make several mentions in the indictment of "Deputy Governor A.), which worried me - would Blagojevich's replacement be implicated? But no - apparently in Illinois a "deputy governor" is different than a "lieutenant governor." Thank goodness. Dan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 09 Dec 08 - 05:21 PM Rapaire opined: I also think that the "President-elect" (as he is called in the document) must have given the green light for this. Based on what evidence? Other than prejudice, of course. Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Genie Date: 09 Dec 08 - 05:26 PM Bobert's right. Blagojevich's actions are reprehensible (I'd add, "if only for the chutzpah of saying the things he said on the PHONE - AFTER Congress authorized Dubya's administration to tap everyone's phone lines without probable cause"), but they pale in comparison to the treasonous actions of that same administration. Where's the outrage over the way the Bush administration has trashed the Constitution and trampled over citizens' rights and human rights in general? Oh, and IMO one of the worst things about this breaking political scandal is that it has grabbed our quite unnecessarily tunnel-vision "news cycle," thus diverting attention from the workers' justified sit-inover Bank of America refusing to lend Republic Windows and Doors so they could pay severance and accrued pay to the workers before closing their doors. The Illinois governor's actions are criminal and the story's a juicy one, but we really do have other matters of greater significance to the vast majority of people, and I hate to see those issues shoved out of public focus by preoccupation with political scandal. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: GUEST Date: 09 Dec 08 - 05:27 PM If Obama's choice for a replacement was turned down because he didn't offer anything to the Governor, I wonder why he didn't report that to the Special Prosecutor? It should have been clear to the President Elect that the Governor was violating the law by asking for a bribe. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Bobert Date: 09 Dec 08 - 05:35 PM What, Dougie??? You know somethin' that noone else knows??? You got Obama's phone tapped, 'er what??? Geeze, can I get a copy of them tapes??? I'll give you 100 bucks... No, make that 200 bucks for the tapes... (Yer biddin' against yerself, Boberdz...) Okay, make that 300 bucks fir the tapes... Come on, Dougie... We're tight, ain't we??? 400 bucks??? 500??? B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 09 Dec 08 - 05:39 PM Mightn't it be better to wait until the trial is done rather than assuming that all the allegations stand up? I mean, that stuff about "innocent until proved guilty" may be a bit old-fashioned, but... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Bat Goddess Date: 09 Dec 08 - 05:42 PM It's all in the fine ooooold American tradition (alas -- and not what they taught us in History class, either), right up there with buying votes, and getting voters drunk and telling 'em who to vote for and, the strongest tradition of all, profiting from the office. Remember Spiro Agnew? Governor of Maryland and Veep under Nixon (another fine, upstanding American, cough, cough) -- in1973 during his 5th year as VP, the United States Attorney's office in Baltimore, Maryland investigated and brought Agnew up on charges of extortion, tax fraud, bribery, and conspiracy. He was charged with having accepted bribes totaling more than $100,000, while holding office as Baltimore County Executive, governor of Maryland, and Vice President of the United States. "On October 10, 1973, Agnew was allowed to plead no contest to a single charge that he had failed to report $29,500 of income received in 1967, with the condition that he resign the office of Vice President." (Wikipedia to check facts -- but I remember it all reasonably well). Okay, and back to Illinois, how 'bout Chicago Mayor ("Organization, not machine! Organization, not machine!") Daley (the first one, of course)? Remember, I hail from Chicago's northernmost suburb -- Milwaukee (WI). But neither Illinois nor Chicago has any monopoly on greed and corruption (not to mention arrogance). Probably the most honest politian I can think of was Frank Zeidler, Socialist mayor of Milwaukee from 1948 (the year before I was born) until 1960. Took the streetcar to work every day and left office living in the same modest home he started out with. He certainly never profited from the being mayor and he had the best interest of Milwaukeeans at heart. Linn |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Bobert Date: 09 Dec 08 - 05:44 PM I kinda agree with McGee... I mean, O.J. beat the murder rap, didn't he??? Hey, when you go wiretappin' things can go very wrong with warrents and 4th Ammendment issues... And, hey, this Governor is gonna have plnety to spend on lawyers 'cause seems that he still has the Senate seat to sell off... He's still Governor, ain't he??? Heck, maybe he can sell off the Governor job, as well... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Genie Date: 09 Dec 08 - 05:47 PM Actually, GUEST (who really should use some sort of name), It's beginning to look like Obama's chief-of-staff designe, Rahm Emmanuel, may have been the one who tipped off the Justice Dept, and it may have been precisely BECAUSE Blagojevich tried to get a tit-for-tat re Obama's preferred replacement and Blagojevich was far from gracious when Obama refused to play ball. Again, though, where was all the outrage when the Bush administration handed out federal govt. jobs, e.g., in the Justice Dept. -- jobs that are not supposed to be patronage jobs -- to political backers and cronies and fired qualified, competent workers in those depts. just for being Democrats? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: John on the Sunset Coast Date: 09 Dec 08 - 06:05 PM Corruption in Chicago or Illinois!!!? To coin a phrase (via Claude Rains), I'm shocked! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Genie Date: 09 Dec 08 - 06:07 PM Yeah, yeah, John. But do you really think politics in Texas and Alabama are any cleaner? G |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: dick greenhaus Date: 09 Dec 08 - 06:07 PM I guess it's reassuring to see that, as far as corruption goes, there's no partisan politics. Crooks on both side of the aisle. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Rapparee Date: 09 Dec 08 - 06:24 PM I think that Obama gave the green light because the "President-elect" is mentioned more than a few times in the affidavit. Let Roddy get himself in deep and then drop the brick on his head before he sullies YOUR house. I do think that Obama's hands are as clean as my own in this. For one thing, he's too smart and savvy to get involved. That is NOT to say that some around him might have their names mentioned in court.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Bobert Date: 09 Dec 08 - 06:27 PM Lemmie see yer hands, Rap... Awww, jus' funnin'... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 09 Dec 08 - 06:27 PM When there was all the stuff about "cash for honours" in the UK a little time back it was generally regarded here as pretty hilarious. I don't mean the allegations were seen as trivial, but generally people like to see the politicos in trouble, almost regardless of party. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: JedMarum Date: 09 Dec 08 - 06:38 PM This thing is partyless! This bastard would be the shame of any party. I cannot see blaming the system for the obvious corruption of one very bad actor. It is disappointing he got as far as he did - but they nailed him - and he won't get away with it anymore. The f*cker oughtta be run out of town on a rail!! Why don't we do that anymore??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Rapparee Date: 09 Dec 08 - 06:41 PM Because it's so hard to get tar and feathers these days, Jed. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: pdq Date: 09 Dec 08 - 06:43 PM Perhaps it's the high price of tar? Petroleum-based, you know. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: JohnInKansas Date: 09 Dec 08 - 06:53 PM The allegation that the phone taps were done under the Bush "warrantless wiretaps" crap are not sustainable, as the affidavit for indictment clearly identifies the courts and judges responsible for issuance of the warrants (including dates and times of issue and of subsequent re-issues and extensions) under which the surveillance was done. While I fully concur that the Bushisms are repugnant, they do not seem applicable in this case. A bright light here is that the US Atty filing the charges is the same one who managed to get Libby convicted (not of the crimes but at least of lying about them) prior to the Bush pardon. [And do we all regret that he couldn't get to Cheney?] John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: JedMarum Date: 09 Dec 08 - 07:03 PM Why regret that regret that Fitzgerald couldn't get to Cheney for Richard Armitage's misdeed? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: pdq Date: 09 Dec 08 - 07:12 PM And while he is at it, perhaps he can give everybody an example of these "warrantless wiretaps" that the anti-Bush folks talk about so often. I believe the president said he reserved the right to order such a thing in event of a national emergency, such as the 9/11 atrocity. All wiretaps in the past 8 years have been properly approved, as far as most people say. That cannot be said of of the previous 8 years. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: SINSULL Date: 09 Dec 08 - 07:14 PM So...did Caroline Kennedy back Obama with the promise of a Senate seat? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Bobert Date: 09 Dec 08 - 07:30 PM I been thinkin' about this thing all day and, ya' know, there's something eerilly similar to these charges as to the ones brought against Bill Clinton over Monika Lewinski... (What you smokin', Boberdz???) No, hear me out... This guy has been under investigation for 5 years and all that they came up with after 5 years was stuff that occured over the last two weeks??? And only two charges??? Come on, folks, let get real here for just one minute... That makes 4 years, 11 months and 2 weeks worth of investigatin' and nothin"... I mean, Sunday-school teacher zip... But these are yer tax dollars at work for 4 years, 11 months and two weeks and all those tax dollars down the drain... I mean, had I been in charge of the investigation I think after a year or tweo I'd call off the blood hounds... But nevermind the fact that Bush and his buddy Gonzalez fired federal prosecutors who wouldn't hang in there for 4 years, 11 months and 2 weeks to try to dig somethin' up on a Democrat... But lets even forget that... Here's a guy who, yeah, got caught up in some funky sh*t that isn't even in the same league as the stuff that Bush and Cheney have done and fine, Fitzie, you caught one... Big fu*kin' deal... Here's a lollypop... But why Fitzie had to go and say stuff like Lincoln rolluing in his grave and Illinois being the most corrupt state is so blatently partisan an' downright stupid and no one is calling him on it is beyond my belief... I mean, almost 5 yeras of wiretaps and stings and God knows what else and Fitzie finally gets two friggin counts and now he wants to make some generalization about Illinois politics smacks of partisanship... If this had been a Texas governor and a Dem appointed prosecutor had called Texaas the most corrupt state in the universe there would be death threats against that prosecutor... I just think the entire episode, once we strip off the media spin, is just one big ahhh-hah, gotcha game that the Bush administration has pulled on the state from where Obama was a Senator and I think it is nuthin' more than more sour grapes by a defeated party... But speakin' of parties, I'm sure that the Repubs are happy tonight... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: wysiwyg Date: 09 Dec 08 - 07:31 PM It's just Flatlander Psychosis. Or sociopathy. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Rapparee Date: 09 Dec 08 - 09:41 PM Bobert, the man had a 13% approval rating in October. He's looted the Teachers' Retirement System even though he was backed by the teachers' union. In January he's facing an ethics inquiry by the State Legislature. He's a scumbag politician who doesn't know enough to maintain deniability, something every Precinct Captain in Chicago learns with their first breath. The reason he was elected the first time was because of the teachers' union backing and the second because he promised to do better for the schools (nobody, of course, got anything except his cronies). I grew up there in Illinois and I've seen the politicians. Some of them you wash your hands immediately after meeting. This guy requires sandblasting. You should hear what my brothers (who still live there and who are NOT Republicans) say about the man they and others call "Rod Sonuvabitch." I suspect that this is the top of a great big pile of, well, what you plow into the garden. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Bobert Date: 09 Dec 08 - 10:18 PM Actually, Rap... I never heard of the guy until today... Yeah, he's prolly a real jerk... I reckon after 8 years of Karl Rove I look at everything that happens in the political world as yet another attempt to slime the opposition party... I'm still there... It may take me a couple years to get it out of my system... As long as the Repubs are in power I can only think that everything that goes wrong between now and Jan. 20 will be something that the Repubs orchrestrated to bring doubt upon Obama... I don't understand why this guy had to make the Lincoln or the most corrupt state comments... That seemed to me to be partisan and uncalled for... I mean, when the prosecutor busted Seriff Danny Pregraves here in my county on 22 felonies she didn't go beyond the facts of the case... No "Page County is the most corrupt"... No people turnin' over on graves... IMO, that was over the top... That kinda stuff is the kinda stuff that sends the red flag up to me... It's the kinda stuff that we heard in the mad-dash-to-Iraq... It's emotional and meant to hit home... I am tired of folks tryin' to manipulate me... Jst give me the facts without the theatrics and emotions... We've had way too much theatrics and emotions so when I see them I go to defualt in thinking that that person in front of the camera is trying sell me a bill of goods... I'm ready for "just the facts" without the political overtones... Might of fact, I am completely sick and tired of politics... Policies??? That is different... Politics??? They sick... So when I hear a federal prosecutor damning the entire state of Illinois it really pisses me off... And it should everyone else who has had enough of Karl Rove... End ot rant... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: GUEST,MarkS (on the road) Date: 09 Dec 08 - 10:29 PM Gosh all peanutbutter - how could such a thing happen? I wouldn't know about such goings on. I'm from New Jersey. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Genie Date: 10 Dec 08 - 12:18 AM dick greenhaus - PM Date: 09 Dec 08 - 06:07 PM I guess it's reassuring to see that, as far as corruption goes, there's no partisan politics. Crooks on both side of the aisle. John in Kansas, I never said Bloggie was wiretapped without a warrant. I was just saying that since we know the Bushies don't NEED a warrant, it's DOUBLY stupid to invite your opponents or the authorities to listen in on your communications. And, yes, I too regret that we " couldn't get to Cheney." pdq: "All wiretaps in the past 8 years have been properly approved, as far as most people say. That cannot be said of of the previous 8 years." Oh, really? As I understand it, current policy allows the Bush Justice Dept. to intercept snail mail, email, and phone calls WITHOUT authorization by a FISA court either before OR afterwards. Bobert: "But nevermind the fact that Bush and his buddy Gonzalez fired federal prosecutors who wouldn't hang in there for 4 years, 11 months and 2 weeks to try to dig somethin' up on a Democrat." Hey, Beau Bear, I think ya may be onto sump'n! And yer right about this: "They sick... So when I hear a federal prosecutor damning the entire state of Illinois it really pisses me off... And it should everyone else who has had enough of Karl Rove." Genie |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: JohnInKansas Date: 10 Dec 08 - 05:27 AM Genie - Apologies if I misread your intent. The slight ambiguity is one reason I didn't cite by post date/time back to your post. I intended to make my comment sufficiently vague to not point specifically to your post, but apparently I was insufficiently vague if it seemed that I did. Of course we should all have lots of faith in orders from a court that meets in secret, whose members identities are secret, whose orders and deliberations/conclusions are secret, etc. But we KNOW that someone's taking care of us. (Court member IDs have been "leaked" a couple of times, but members are rotated frequently, and are often gone from the court before it's known who they might have been. Even when leaked, one is never sure if the info is, or was, credible. Members are picked/assigned by ... guess who(?)) John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Teribus Date: 10 Dec 08 - 07:50 AM "...let me throw this out... Had the FBI, the IRS and the US Justice Department investigated Dick Cheney over the awarding of contracts to Halliburton then the indictments would sound just about the same, including all the bleepin' bleeps..." - Bobert. I would throw that out too Bobert, as would "the FBI, the IRS and the US Justice Department". Much as though you would like to think that Dick Cheney awarded contracts to Halliburton - He, Dick Cheney did not. Oh Bobert, while you're about it, on the awarding of contracts to Halliburton please tell us all if what is written below is true: - In 1998 during the Clinton Administrations second term, Halliburton were awarded a five year Frame Agreement Service Contract with the Pentagon. - That contract was awarded as the result of a "Competitive Tender" process. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: SINSULL Date: 10 Dec 08 - 08:17 AM I spent the night remembering Watergate - feel better now. Politicians have always been pigs. Except Ed Koch, the NYC mayor. He always said and did what he believed. It was a riot to watch. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Bobert Date: 10 Dec 08 - 08:33 AM Competetive bid is ther operative term here, T... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Riginslinger Date: 10 Dec 08 - 10:01 AM Fox News is desperately trying to link it all to Obama. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Maryrrf Date: 10 Dec 08 - 10:31 AM I knew corruption existed but I was staggered by the brazeness of this one. What an arrogant SOB. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 10 Dec 08 - 12:32 PM As I understand it, the problem with this guy Blagojevich is that he too seems to have "said and did what he believed". Not a wise thing to do in the circumstances. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: JedMarum Date: 10 Dec 08 - 01:05 PM It's incredible to me that the news IS trying to link it to Obama! They just want headlines that'll sell. No wonder their readership is dropping like flies! Obama is on top of the world right now. Anyone with a lick of brain could see he wouldn't have touched this under any circumstances - didn't have anything to gain from doing so, and didn't have any need to do so - even if he was inclined to do that sort of thing (and there's nothing in his past to say he is inclined to such things). I didn't vote for Obama but any fool can see he has no hand in this. It makes me angry that every time some idiot does something outrageous we have a chorus of media pundits trying to prove it is a systemic problem! Blagojevich is bad apple. He may have infected a few others around him, but this is NOT the way all politicians work - and it's a damn good thing the prick got caught. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Rapparee Date: 10 Dec 08 - 01:20 PM Unless Obama is quite, quite stupid -- and he's not -- there is nothing to link him to this. The "Senate Candidate 1" is presumed to be someone Obama appointed to another office -- it looks to me like Roddy boy is wriggling like mad in this and can't get free. Hubris will do that to you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: pdq Date: 10 Dec 08 - 02:21 PM Tuesday, December 09, 2008 ...Ryan Lizza's piece in the New Yorker: That year, (Obama) gained his first high-level experience in a statewide campaign when he advised the victorious gubernatorial candidate Rod Blagojevich, another politician with a funny name and a message of reform. Rahm Emanuel, a congressman from Chicago and a friend of Obama's, told me that he, Obama, David Wilhelm, who was Blagojevich's campaign co-chair, and another Blagojevich aide were the top strategists of Blagojevich's victory. He and Obama "participated in a small group that met weekly when Rod was running for governor," Emanuel said. "We basically laid out the general election, Barack and I and these two." A spokesman for Blagojevich confirmed Emanuel's account, although David Wilhelm, who now works for Obama, said that Emanuel had overstated Obama's role. "There was an advisory council that was inclusive of Rahm and Barack but not limited to them," Wilhelm said, and he disputed the notion that Obama was "an architect or one of the principal strategists." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Genie Date: 10 Dec 08 - 02:26 PM Even if Obama helped advise and plan Blagojevich's gubernatorial campaign strategy -- which I don't think would be unusual, as members of the Illinois Democratic party -- that would in no way suggest that Obama was party to any of Blagojevich's corrupt actions as governor (or even as a candidate). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Bobert Date: 10 Dec 08 - 02:53 PM I guess that no one else finds it the slight bit curious that this guy has been under investigation for, what, 4 years and it's only stuff that he's done very recently that brought charges against him??? I'd be willing to bet that every Democratic governor has also been under investigation for the last 4 years... Yeah, the Repubs hate to lose and they don't do it very well... This was their early Christmas present but I don't think they are finished with the mischief yet... I mean, lets get real... This is exactly what they did with Bill Clinton, too... Investigate, invetsigate and investigate and if it weren't for some boneheaded things on his part the Repubs would have come up empty... With all the real crime that is out there I find it incrdulous that taxpayers money was being spent month and month after month after month adding up to well over 3 years of investigating without someone sayin', "Hey, ain't nuthin' here" and shut doen the investigation... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: GUEST Date: 10 Dec 08 - 03:35 PM When I read the title, I mistook it for a Canadian Senate seat (we have 14 or so vacant). I thought, now that's a good idea, sell it on EBay. It could be an alternative political party funding route. |
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Subject: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Genie Date: 10 Dec 08 - 03:37 PM Yeah, Bobert, I find the timing rather convenient too. And I too wonder if Republicans are being investigated as diligently as Democrats are (though I think Fitzgerald himself is pretty non-partisan). The Dems in Congress, though, seemingly are still sticking to the "let's move on, let's "work across the aisle," and let's not get bogged down with distractions like investigating Republican corruption" strategy. Problem is, when your side takes that tack and the other side's perpetually out for blood, your side's corrupt politics either get exposed more often or get more media attention or both. In this case, though, I think the Democrats may have pushed as hard as the Republicans for Blagojevich to be indicted now. I don't think they wanted him to appoint a tainted Democratic senator and then later have both be exposed. They want the Senate seat but they don't want that Senate appointee to be exposed as corrupt after s/he has been seated. I also think that the Democrats are a lot like cats when it comes to being herded. Today's Republican Party seems to have a stronger hold on the reins of their members than the Democratic Party has on theirs. The Republicans/neocons/"conservatives" also have a huge, powerful echo chamber in the corporate media consortium. So when Republicans are exposed as corrupt - even indicted, convicted, etc. - there seem to be all sorts of voices on radio and TV and within the party coming to their defense. Ted Stevens was almost re-elected to the Senate despite being convicted of corruption. William Jefferson was soundly defeated for re-election to the House after being indicted for that money found in his freezer - and that House seat hasn't been won by a Republican in a long time, until now. The liberal and progressive talk shows are being as tough on Blagojevich as they ever were on Stevens or Libby or Abramhoff (sp?), etc. And I don't hear other Democratic politicians condoning Blagojevich's actions or supporting him. They want him out. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 10 Dec 08 - 03:46 PM " I guess that no one else finds it the slight bit curious that this guy has been under investigation for, what, 4 years and it's only stuff that he's done very recently that brought charges against him??? " Obama helped push for an ethics reform bill in Illinois (yes, he was paying some attention to his home state during the campaign)which was to put curbs on campaign contributions. The Gov., seeing that his funds would dry up, started to push for "donations" before the reforms took effect. People started talking, the feds started investigating, and guess what they found! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: GUEST,Congressional staffer Date: 10 Dec 08 - 03:55 PM One thing to take away from all this... Government is Government but the Banks OWN it all. Don't F around with the Bank of America or you bleeping bleeps are bleeped. In other words; Don't give the public a view of organized legitimate dissent against the Banks, or the Banks will organize against you. In the real world the rhetoric that we have heard, bleeped to death, is not unusual. What would be unusual is if money, instead of "favors" were actually exchanged for the Senate seat. There is no claim or proof that any money or promises were made for the seat. When Presidents are mere pawns to owners of Big Banks, a Govenor is just dust in the wind. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Rapparee Date: 10 Dec 08 - 04:01 PM First of all, where I in Fitzgerald's place I'd do exactly what he did: arrest Roddy and try to stop him from selling a seat in the Senate or worse, taking it himself. This isn't politics, it's good law enforcement. Secondly, Roddy started out as a reform candidate following the Ryan governorship and God knows, Illinois needed reform after that! He did okay for the first couple of years and then power corrupted. Thirdly, trying to link Obama to Roddy's sins is kinda like linking me to the Director of the University library: I know her, we work together, and that's about it. People working in a job tend to know others working at their same level; it in no way means that they are somehow connected in unsavory matters. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Donuel Date: 10 Dec 08 - 04:10 PM Reform has come to mean "this time we promise not to get caught" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Genie Date: 10 Dec 08 - 04:13 PM You're right, Ron, and that's an important factor. Blagojevich did rev up his efforts to line his pockets before the new reforms went into effect on Jan. 1, and that in itself probably hastened is being exposed for corruption. I actually think Blagojevich is not just extremely corrupt but also mentally unstable - perhaps even delusional. Not unlike Nixon. Somehow he convinced himself that he could not only shake down contract bidders, current office holders and would-be office holders in exchange for designated funds, appointments, etc., but that he could talk openly about this stuff on the phone while inviting both legal and illegal eavesdropping and wire taps. Pretty crazy, IMO. Did he, like Nixon, think that because he was acting as a chief executive whatever he did was legal? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: SINSULL Date: 10 Dec 08 - 04:16 PM The timing looks right to me. He was about to sell off a seat in the Senate and going public was the only way to stop it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: pdq Date: 10 Dec 08 - 04:16 PM "First of all, where I in Fitzgerald's place I'd do exactly what he did: arrest Roddy and try to stop him from selling a seat..." Actually, by arresting him immediatly, before he could "sell" the Senate seat, Fitzgerald prevented gov. Blagojevich from committing a crime. Now, it can be said that he "just thinking about it", which is not a crime. This allows the governor to step down and say he is sorry and go home a free man. Much less damage to the party that way. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Genie Date: 10 Dec 08 - 04:24 PM I'm not sure he's off the hook. If there's clear evidence that he solicited bribes (e.g., asked for an offer of money or goods in exchange for an appointment or a government contract), I believe that in itself is a crime. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Rapparee Date: 10 Dec 08 - 04:31 PM There's also the matter of conspiracy...remember that Roddy isn't along in the warrant. Roddy is taking all the heat, but John (I think it's John) Harris is also named. I'm pretty sure it's not BOB Harris.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Donuel Date: 10 Dec 08 - 04:33 PM Govenor Blagojevich whose head inspired the animated TV cartoon 'Jimmy Neutron' and whose political rise to power inspired 'Omen III', is going to be prevented from legally selecting himself for the Senate Seat by a new law to be passed by the Illinois Legislature. Obama will be relieved to have Blago not sully his administration with Chicago political machine shenanigans. Too bad Jesse Jackson Jr. is being connected to Blago as the secret candidate #5. Lets hope this doesn't become a witch trial by insinuation that destroys good people by rumor. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Genie Date: 10 Dec 08 - 04:40 PM I agree, Donuel. Let's hope nobody gets permanently tainted just by insinuation or accusation (as the Republicans tried so hard to do to Obama throughout the Presidential campaign). Here's an interesting NY Times article: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/10/us/politics/10chicago.html?_r=1&nl=pol&emc=pola1&pagewanted=print. December 10, 2008 Obama's Effort on Ethics Bill Had Role in Governor's Fall By MIKE McINTIRE and JEFF ZELENY In a sequence of events that neatly captures the contradictions of Barack Obama's rise through Illinois politics, a phone call he made three months ago to urge passage of a state ethics bill indirectly contributed to the downfall of a fellow Democrat he twice supported, Gov. Rod R. Blagojevich. Mr. Obama placed the call to his political mentor, Emil Jones Jr., president of the Illinois Senate. Mr. Jones was a critic of the legislation, which sought to curb the influence of money in politics, as was Mr. Blagojevich, who had vetoed it. But after the call from Mr. Obama, the Senate overrode the veto, prompting the governor to press state contractors for campaign contributions before the law's restrictions could take effect on Jan. 1, prosecutors say. Tipped off to Mr. Blagojevich's efforts, federal agents obtained wiretaps for his phones and eventually overheard what they say was scheming by the governor to profit from his appointment of a successor to the United States Senate seat being vacated by President-elect Obama. One official whose name has long been mentioned in Chicago political circles as a potential successor is Mr. Jones, a machine politician who was viewed as a roadblock to ethics reform but is friendly with Mr. Obama. Beyond the irony of its outcome, Mr. Obama's unusual decision to inject himself into a statewide issue during the height of his presidential campaign was a reminder that despite his historic ascendancy to the White House, he has never quite escaped the murky and insular world of Illinois politics. It is a world he has long navigated, to the consternation of his critics, by engaging in a kind of realpolitik, Chicago-style, which allowed him to draw strength from his relationships with important players without becoming compromised by their many weaknesses. By the time Mr. Obama intervened on the ethics measure, his relationship with Mr. Blagojevich, always defined more by political proximity than by personal chemistry, had cooled as the governor became increasingly engulfed in legal troubles. There is nothing in the criminal complaint unsealed Tuesday to indicate that Mr. Obama knew anything about plans to seek money and favors in exchange for his Senate seat; he has never been implicated in any other "pay to play" cases that have emerged from the long-running investigation of the Blagojevich administration. But like those previous cases, this latest one features political characters who figure in various stages of Mr. Obama's climb from little-known state senator to presidential candidate, and who have since become politically radioactive because of corruption scandals. Some of those relationships posed a threat to Mr. Obama during the presidential campaign, forcing him to return tens of thousands of dollars in tainted campaign contributions and providing fodder for attack ads by rival candidates. Though extreme examples, they were emblematic of the path cut by Mr. Obama through Chicago politics, where he became known for making alliances of convenience with personalities that seemed antithetical to his self-image as a progressive reformer. His political roots were in the left-leaning neighborhood of Hyde Park, but at key moments in his career he did not hesitate to form relationships with politicians who were fixtures of the Democratic machine. When he ran for the United States Senate in 2004, he aggressively courted Mr. Jones, a sewer inspector turned legislator who had clawed his way up through ward politics and was viewed as something of a kingmaker in the Illinois Democratic Party. He also formed a good working relationship with Mayor Richard M. Daley of Chicago, a symbol of establishment politics with whom Mr. Obama had never been close. Mr. Obama was an adviser to Mr. Blagojevich's first campaign for governor, in 2002, and endorsed him again in 2006, even though by that time questions had been raised about the possible selling of state jobs. Mr. Obama has also credited one of Mr. Blagojevich's closest confidants, Antoin Rezko, a businessman who was convicted of corruption charges this year, with helping him get his own start in politics. Mr. Rezko was among the first to contribute to Mr. Obama's earliest State Senate race, in 1995, and later became a major fund-raiser for his campaign for the United States Senate. Mr. Rezko was known around Chicago as a collector of politicians, and he did not hesitate to make the most of his high-level contacts. The New York Times reported last year that when he was entertaining Middle Eastern financiers at a Four Seasons hotel in Chicago, he arranged for Mr. Blagojevich and Mr. Obama to drop by, separately and on different occasions, to impress his guests. Mr. Rezko derived his political influence mainly from his close relationship with Mr. Blagojevich, who relied on him to recommend loyal campaign contributors for state appointments to boards and commissions, according to the complaint unsealed on Tuesday. But as Mr. Rezko's legal troubles escalated, Illinois politicians who had previously found him useful, including Mr. Obama, disavowed him and started returning his campaign donations. Mr. Obama's relationship with Mr. Blagojevich was not much better when he made the decision to call Mr. Jones in September about the stalled ethics bill. For Mr. Obama, the move marked an unusual return to Illinois politics, turf from which he had studiously worked to distance himself throughout the presidential race. At the time, one week before the first presidential debate of the general election campaign, Republicans were trying to tarnish him in the eyes of voters by attempting to link him to Chicago's history of corrupt politics. Mr. Obama used leverage that he had seldom employed — publicly, anyway — and strongly urged Mr. Jones to bypass Mr. Blagojevich and approve the ethics bill, banning the so-called pay-for-play system of influence peddling in Illinois. When asked at the time how Mr. Obama had come to be involved, Mr. Jones replied, "He's a friend." When the Illinois Senate passed the measure by 55 to 0 on Sept. 22, with Mr. Jones reversing his position, Mr. Obama praised the move as one creating "a tougher ethics law that will reduce the influence of money over our state's political process." Mr. Obama's intervention deepened a rift between him and Mr. Blagojevich that had been growing for some time. When Mr. Blagojevich left Congress in 2002, he talked openly about the notion of running for president one day. After he was elected governor, and after Senator John Kerry lost the presidential race in 2004, he began eyeing a potential run in 2008. It was short-lived. The federal corruption investigation that eventually led to Mr. Rezko's indictment, and Tuesday's charges against Mr. Blagojevich, had already begun to taint the governor's administration. And by 2006, Mr. Obama had eclipsed the governor as a plausible national candidate, dashing his presidential aspirations. The criminal complaint unsealed Tuesday underscored the acrimony between the two men. Recorded telephone calls showed Mr. Blagojevich being far less than respectful when discussing the president-elect and voicing frustration at his inability to advance beyond the governor's office. "If I don't get what I want and I'm not satisfied with it, then I'll just take the Senate seat myself," the governor said, according to the criminal complaint. Later, he said the Senate seat was a "valuable thing — you just don't give it away for nothing." Meanwhile, Mr. Blagojevich was busily trying to shake loose up to $2.5 million in campaign donations, much of it from contributors with business before the state, according to federal prosecutors. The governor's goal was to bring in the money before the end of the year, the complaint said, "before a new state ethics law goes into effect on Jan. 1, 2009." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 10 Dec 08 - 05:15 PM I guess that no one else finds it the slight bit curious that this guy has been under investigation for, what, 4 years and it's only stuff that he's done very recently that brought charges against him??? Seems very possible to me that the wheels of the gods were grinding slowly, but along came this, and they had to move quickly, lest he got a price he liked and appointed whoever bribed him. Another thought: I understand that it's only recently that they had probable cause to plant a bug in his headquarters and tape his home phone. Those operations brought this forward, in an unmistakable way that gelled the overall investigation and made it ready for indictment. Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Riginslinger Date: 10 Dec 08 - 05:20 PM Bobert could be right. It could be that all the Democratic governors were under investigation so that uncovered information could be made public when it would do the most damage. Also, I thought it had been confirmed that candidate #5 offered half-a-million for the seat, but that Blagojevich had countered with a million. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Genie Date: 10 Dec 08 - 05:42 PM I don't think anything's really been confirmed about "Candidate #5." I think all they have on that is Blago's allegation. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: JedMarum Date: 10 Dec 08 - 06:07 PM Candidate #5 is fool for playing along - but I don't suppose he/she is anywhere near as guilty as the scum-bag offering to sell the Senate seat. This is really and truly abhorrent to me, as I am sure it is all of us. Neither party has a lock on bad actors - and this is truly one of the most egregious of transgressions, it seems to me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: pdq Date: 10 Dec 08 - 06:24 PM "Candidate #5" is Jesse Jackson, Jr. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Bobert Date: 10 Dec 08 - 06:25 PM I think the liberal talk show should re-examine their stance... Hey, not that this guy needs defending, mind you but no one is pointing out the 3 year, 11 month long empty investigation... The linerals are just content to move on... I'm not... If we can dig emepty hole after empty hole on an Illinios governor why can'r we so much as scratch the ground over how Halliburton got those billions and billions without having to bid... Teribus would have us bvelieve that those contracts could only be preformed by Halliburton but that is just not true... Anyone can build a school or cook or drive a truck... Ain't rocket science... None of it was rocket science... Yeah, the liberals are playing way to nice... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Rapparee Date: 10 Dec 08 - 06:31 PM Bobert, believe me: they have stuff on this guy going back 3 years and 11 months. I know this because my brother told me -- I can't tell you WHY or HOW he knows but he does and it will all be coming out soon. Let's just say that he's in a position to know what's been going on. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 10 Dec 08 - 06:40 PM That last post by Rapaire makes it sound like an urban legend... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Bobert Date: 10 Dec 08 - 06:45 PM Well then, Rap, then let's have at it... I mean, if yer brother-in-law knows stuff then you can bet that lotta folks know stuff and if that's the case then the stuff outta come oozing thru the cracks any minute noe 'cause that is the way human nature is... People love to talk and leak stuff so tell bro to give it up here in Mudville... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Genie Date: 10 Dec 08 - 07:27 PM I agree, Bobert. Aren't no-bid contracts and jobs in the federal govt. handed out to your campaign contributors and supporters also bribery, even if it's not strictly illegal? The Bush administration has handed out all sorts of favors involving big money to lots of people just for helping him get elected and get his agenda through. This hardly excuses a jerk like Blagojevich, but our system of campaign finance is an open invitation to tainted politics and corruption. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Bobert Date: 10 Dec 08 - 08:22 PM No, Genie, I don't condone what the Blagman did but, hey, I think if folks would listen to the LBJ tapes, or even the Nixon tapes, that this is politics in America... Is it corrupt???... Well, heck yeah, it is... But this is the way stuff is done... I'm sure the Givernor was absolutely dumbfounded when he was arrested becuase he was just doin' in American style... I hate to see sacrifical lambs... Either kill 'um all or nuthin'... Every governor in this country has had conversations that if wiretaped wouldn't llok too good... Like I say, I ain't condonin' Blagster's behavior but given the levl of corruption in governemnt I think it pales in comparision to the crap we've seen for the last 8 years... BTW, most of that crap will never be investigated... Never... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 11 Dec 08 - 03:34 AM From: SINSULL Date: 09 Dec 08 - 11:47 AM I can honestly say that I never suspected that such corruption is possible. How do these people sleep at night? You didn't????!!!!!???!!..(Happens all the time)..just a little slicker! I'm wondering how anyone sleeps at night, knowing such naivete, abounds in such large groups of people..who didn't think our government ON ALL LEVELS, is 'less than corrupt'!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Teribus Date: 11 Dec 08 - 11:27 AM "Teribus would have us bvelieve that those contracts could only be preformed by Halliburton" - Bobert Now just when did I ever say that Bobert. What I have said is that in 1998 Halliburton put in a Tender/Bid for a five year Service Contract in competition against others. Halliburton won that Contract against its main rivals, within the 5 year period, when work came up that fell into the scope of the services contract it automatically went to the company who had won the services contract in 1998. Not rocket science at all Bobert, and what's more all perfectly legal and above board. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Genie Date: 11 Dec 08 - 12:18 PM But, Teribus, our feds do continue to hand out no-bid contracts. Not all the work given to Halliburton (etc.) is just an extension of already-existing contracts. And even if a policy is fully legal and above board, it doesn't necessarily mean it's sensible, just, or effective. Say a company submits the best bid for rebuilding a bridge and even does a decent job on that project. Automatically handing over all other such projects (not to mention totally different kinds of projects) to that company for several more years on a no-bid basis is an unwise practice and one wildly open to abuse. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: SINSULL Date: 11 Dec 08 - 12:26 PM GFS - it was a momentary lapse. I spent the evening reviewing Watergate and Abscam and assorted horrors and came to my senses. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Rapparee Date: 11 Dec 08 - 12:44 PM Gee, and here I've been thinking about the Vatican and the Reformation.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Teribus Date: 11 Dec 08 - 06:14 PM "And even if a policy is fully legal and above board, it doesn't necessarily mean it's sensible, just, or effective. Say a company submits the best bid for rebuilding a bridge and even does a decent job on that project. Automatically handing over all other such projects (not to mention totally different kinds of projects) to that company for several more years on a no-bid basis is an unwise practice and one wildly open to abuse." - Genie Now the Government Departments requiring this work to be done takes your advice Genie and puts the next job for the US Military out in Iraq or Afghanistan out for Competitive Tender. You have say four bidders: Contractor A - Did the last bit of work there, already has all security vetting of personnel and clearances in place, has plant and personnel on site, or at least in the area, are fully familiar with operating routines and systems. Contractors B; C & D - Fully capable of doing the work, all personnel have to go through security vetting to get required clearances, all their plant and equipment must be hired locally or transported to site, once on site they must allow time for aclimatisation and familiarisation with operating routines and systems. Now all those facets of the job are cost items that have to factored into the bids - You tell me which contractor is best placed to put in the most attractive bid in terms of cost; effectiveness; degree of comfort to the Client. My money would be on Contractor A. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Bobert Date: 11 Dec 08 - 06:33 PM I think when it was discovered that Halliburton was trying to cheat US that that should have been grounds, if for no other reason, to demote them from no-bid to bid... Also, T, I disagree that "legal" and "above board" are one of the same... Presenting contracts to the Dick Cheney's company, which BTW was still paying him at the timwe the contracts were *given*, might have techincally been legal but above board??? Hardly... It reeked of corruption... I brought this up at the tinme and got purdy much the same "proclamations" from you then as we are getting now... There are more than one reason why Dick Cheney';s approval ratings are even worse than Bush's and this little ball-game that has going with Halliburton is a big factor in his low approval ratings... I realy don't see that this Governor is in the same league with either Dick Cheney or George Bush when it comes to corruption... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Bobert Date: 11 Dec 08 - 06:34 PM And further more... ...100... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Genie Date: 11 Dec 08 - 07:08 PM Teribus, you're right - a number of factors must be weighed in deciding who should get a govt. contract. However: - not all contracts are for military projects and - when competitive bids are submitted for one project a number of companies probably get vetted. It's probably not necessary to start from scratch for everyone when a new project comes up. - it would probably be a good idea for the govt. to keep (current) records on a number of potential contractors, both in terms of competence and in terms of security, just so no one company can take advantage of lack of competition. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Genie Date: 11 Dec 08 - 07:11 PM Oh, and, Teribus ("Now all those facets of the job are cost items that have to factored into the bids - You tell me which contractor is best placed to put in the most attractive bid in terms of cost; effectiveness; degree of comfort to the Client. My money would be on Contractor A."), you're still talking about BIDS. Choosing which bid to accept could involve all the factors you mentioned (and more). My quarrel is with the idea of NO-bid contracts. Seems to me the Bush administration has handed out quite a few of those. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Rapparee Date: 11 Dec 08 - 11:05 PM Don't forget in all this talk about the Senate Seat that Roddy B. also withheld Medicaid funds from a Children's Hospital until the doctors there could come up with an $800,000 "contribution".... My youngest brother called and asked me "Who's going to get the longest jail time -- your Senator or my Governor?" (Idaho Senator Larry Craig just had his guilty plea upheld in Minnesota.) Bro also said that Roddy is probably the loneliest man in Illinois right now, because the Chicago Machine has cut him lose. Of course, his FIL, a rather powerful Chicago Alderman, hasn't seen his grandkids in two years -- and Roddy hasn't talked to his Lt. Governor in 18 months. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Teribus Date: 12 Dec 08 - 01:41 AM In which case Genie suggest to Obama that the US Government do away with Frame Agreement Contracts and award all work on a competitive bid basis. It will provide great opportunities, increase the risks and probabilities of complete screw ups, delay the completion of the work required to be done and dramatically increase the costs of government in evaluating all those bids and awarding the work. It was precisely to avoid all these pitfalls that Frame Agreement Contracts were thought of. Any conflict of interest issues with regard to Dick Cheney's former employment and him running as VP of the USA were thoroughly investigated and gone into prior to the 2000 Presidential election campaign Bobert. You might not have liked the outcome, but those responsible for doing the checking were quite content with what they found. As to his "pay" Bobert, are you referring to all that money he declared, as he had to, and all that money he donated to charity. Yes Bobert you did go into all of this at the time - the dog didn't hunt then, it isn't hunting now - no case to answer, move on, get over it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Riginslinger Date: 12 Dec 08 - 09:22 AM They're getting closer to Jesse Jackson Jr., and starting to look at Obama. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Bobert Date: 12 Dec 08 - 10:25 AM Exactly who "thoroughly investigated" the Cheney conflict of interest, T??? No, don't hurt yer head on that one 'cause i'm gonna tell you... The Republican dominated governemnt led by George Bush and, ahhhhhh, Dick Cheneym that's who... You still don't get it, do you, T... The worst 8 years of American history since maybe Nixon or maybe the Civil War or maybe the worst ever and here you are with these proclamations od inocence by everyone involved... (It was Bill Clinton's fault, Boberdz... Slick Willie is completely responsible for everything bad that has happened since 2000!!!) I don't buy that bull... And I don't buy your proclamations, T... They are not one bit credible... And, BTW, you may not be aware of American tax codes but every dollar that is donated to charity come off one's "taxable income" which mean's that the US Treasury subsidized Cheney's donations... So that money that came from Halliburton wasn't exactly donated in that Cheney did not financially beneift because he did benefit from the GHallinburton money... That is a fact, T... Check out out tax codes before making any more proclamations that Cheney did not benefit from the money he recieved from Halliburton and after you have all the facts maybe it's you who should just accept that there was conflict of interest and get over your denials... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Teribus Date: 12 Dec 08 - 11:53 AM Hey Bobert don't try to convince me, try to convince those who gave the man a clean bill of health to run as V-P. The truth to this day is that nobody has proven any conflict of interest. By the bye Bobert you were asked to provide details of any contract awarded to Halliburton by Dick Cheney. How much out of the public purse is Obama getting to run his "Transition" Office?? In 2000 after the election the Bush-Cheney team were given nothing, the costs were borne privately by Dick Cheney. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: pdq Date: 12 Dec 08 - 11:57 AM Athough this thread is not about Dick Cheney, and all the possible questions about his estate have been awswered, it looks like we need to go back and look again. All of the assets of Mr. Cheney and his wife were put in a very complex blind trust with at least three compartments.The stock options from Haliburton were a major part of his compensation as it's CEO and my have be their largest asset. Any increase in value of these options was to be given to charities. Any loss in value would be borne by the Cheney's. Three charities were chosen and are as follows: "The charities chosen by the Cheneys are Capital Partners for Education, which provides educational assistance to low-income highschool-age children in the Washington, D.C. area, George Washington University Medical Faculty Associates, also in Washington, D.C., and the University of Wyoming in their home state." Cash, property and deferred salary are seperated treated but also in the blind trust. The only people who could possibly benefit from and increase in value were in the charities. Anybody from the general public who thought that having Haliburton's former CEO as VP could have bought stock in the company. Perhaps the only two people in the world who could not were the Cheney's. About the contracts mentioned, involving driving trucks and feeding troops in Iraq, Haliburton took them because the government asked them to. They are more dangerous for employees and pay less than the company receives for their specialized oil field developement in the oil-rich regions of the world. Also, Haliburton was ranked at about 105 on the top corporations list when Cheney took office. Last time I checked it was at about 155. Some benefit from having "their man" as VP, eh. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Teribus Date: 12 Dec 08 - 07:01 PM Hells teeth pdq, don't whatever you do confuse Bobert with facts that can be clearly established as being the truth - Everybody knows Bobert just can handle the TRUTH!!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Bobert Date: 12 Dec 08 - 07:49 PM Yeah, right, T 'n pdq... That is so much bull it is barely worth (yet again) responding to but here are the facts... Blind trust or not, the Cheney's showed ****income**** from Halliburton at a time that Halliburten was being awarded no-bid contracts!!! This is a fact!!! It is public information!!! Okay, maybe you two don't care about this but it is a fact... (But, Boerdz, this was perfectly legal...) Well, let me put this another way... If Bill Clinton had donme something like this he would have been ***fried***... If Obam ever come close to this he will be ***fried***... You guys just don't get corruption, do you??? I mean, really... Geeze Louise... Exactly what would Chaney have to do for either of you shills to say, "The boy done messed up"??? I mean, last I heard is that Cheney's approval ratings were around 10%... There is a reason, unbeknownst to either of you Cheney cheerleaders, for that... He is a repulsive crook and I resent my tax dollars being ***handed over*** to his company!!! And 90% of Americans feel exactly like me... I want transparancy in how my tax dollars are spent and that has never occured with Halliburton other than when they tried to scam $6B outta the Treasury... Scammers... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Charley Noble Date: 12 Dec 08 - 08:41 PM Let's get back to the thread topic, please. So Jessie Jackson, Jr, is somehow implicated? From news reports that I've read it's possible that one of his financial supporters was indeed willing to raise $500,000 or so to have him made senator. Jackson didn't necessarily know about that proposal but certainly one of his staff people did. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Bobert Date: 12 Dec 08 - 09:04 PM Why, Charlie??? This discussion about Cheney is the leader for things to come... We need to figure out why a governor thought it was okay to say stuff like "pay-to-play", why he thought is was pefectly okay to do some of the completely dumbass stuff that he has done... We have a sheriff here in Page County who alot like the governor... Young, handsome, etc. who got busted on 22 felony counts and like them governor didn't have a clue that what he had done was, ahhhhhhh, wrong??? Google "Danny Presgraves" for details... Cheney is a central digure in alot of folks lives and misdeeds... He was the guy who broke all the rules and said it was "Okay"... We can't really discuss the governor of Illinios without discussing Dick Cheney... There is a culture of corruption where people really have no idea that they are doing stuff that is wrong... To discuss this without keeping the role model in mind ain't discussing it at all... These youngin's really don't have a clue that they are committing crimes... That is the real story here... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 12 Dec 08 - 09:05 PM If you guys wanna discuss Cheney, Haliburton, and no-bid contracts, how about starting a separate thread for that purpose? Some of us would like to discuss and/or read about something vaguely resembling what the thread title indicates. Has nobody ever explained the meaning of the term "hijack" to you? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Bobert Date: 12 Dec 08 - 09:31 PM No, Beezer... Nobody has... Awwww, jus' funnin'... Okay, I'll leave Cheny alone, fir now, but hold the rights to bring him back into the discussion whould need arise... Okay, so back to the seriously messes up Illinois Governor who thought that he was gonna get a call from Obama to speak at the Dem convention, who thought it was okay to get something in return for a Senate appointment, who really didn't get anything at all... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Rapparee Date: 12 Dec 08 - 09:53 PM Bobert, please don't bring Cheney back. Man, I just ate! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Riginslinger Date: 12 Dec 08 - 10:04 PM "Jackson didn't necessarily know about that proposal but certainly one of his staff people did." Doesn't matter. Jackson Jr. is toast. That's the way American politics work. They're trying desperately to splash some of it on Obama. Time will tell. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Genie Date: 13 Dec 08 - 02:33 AM Riginslinger - "They're getting closer to Jesse Jackson Jr., and starting to look at Obama." "They?" Maybe Fitzgerald is "getting closer to Jesse Jackson Jr" but the only "they" who are starting to look at Obama - any more than at anyone else who may have any connection to Illinois politics - seem to be the same Republican crowd that set out to dig up some dirt on Bill Clinton before he even took office. There's been nothing revealed by news sources that in any way implicated Obama other than wild-assed speculation, mostly by those who have ulterior motives. Sad to say, at a time when our nation could really use some healing and bipartisan cooperation - after a disastrous 8 years and a solid victory by the Democrats - too many of those who opposed Obama seem more interested in hobbling him right out of the gate than in doing anything to help the country survive the crises we're in. Fitzgerald has lots of taped conversations and other evidence. Why don't we let his office do its job before we go off on witch hunts? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: akenaton Date: 13 Dec 08 - 03:27 AM "at a time when our nation could really use some healing and bipartisan cooperation" I hope that's just another of your little political jokes Genie!! What your country could do with, is a large measure of fury about being treated like fuckin' idiots. The very worst part is that you all seem to know that the political system is rotten, yet after being comprehensively fucked, you follow your leader Mr Obama, roll over and invite them to fuck you again! I'm beginning to think that the "right" in America are the ones with the balls......and I include Sarah Palin in that. When will it ever dawn on you that change never has been and never will be served up to you by the US Corporate political system? They will use any trick in the book to convince you otherwise....race....gender....finance....terrorism, but as proved by the Anti Vietnam and the Civil Rights Movements, the initiative has to be taken by the American people themselves. Forget token black men or token women listen, to what the bastards say, watch what they do......always remember what they are and where they came from.......You want change?.....break the fuckin' mould!.....Ake |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Genie Date: 13 Dec 08 - 04:48 AM Akenaton, I'm not sure I fully understand where yer comin' from, but let me throw this out: Yeah, I know the neocons have screwed us (the country) over for - well, at least since the "Reagan revolution" - but, like it or not, this country is so divided (has been for at least 20 years) that nobody's gonna bring about major reforms (salvation) without at least SOME bipartisan backing. As long as we're stuck in the "gotcha!" politics mode, we'll waste the public's attention span and the media's and Congress's resources slapping each other in the face like Curly, Moe, and Larry instead of plugging the growing holes in the dike. To quote our President elect, "ENOUGH!" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Genie Date: 13 Dec 08 - 05:06 AM OK, gotta five our sun-god-worshipper pharaoh a bit more of a response. Akenaton: "What your country could do with, is a large measure of fury about being treated like fuckin' idiots. The very worst part is that you all seem to know that the political system is rotten, yet after being comprehensively fucked, you follow your leader Mr Obama, roll over and invite them to fuck you again! I'm beginning to think that the "right" in America are the ones with the balls......and I include Sarah Palin in that. When will it ever dawn on you that change never has been and never will be served up to you by the US Corporate political system? They will use any trick in the book to convince you otherwise....race....gender....finance....terrorism, but as proved by the Anti Vietnam and the Civil Rights Movements, the initiative has to be taken by the American people themselves." Funny, but we're arguing yet we don't really disagree. Except maybe on tactics. I may be wrong, but I think - and I hope - that Barack Obama's tactical disagreements with me (and you?) reflect more his astute grasp of political realities than disagreements with progressive ideals. The Democrats do not have a filibuster-proof majority in the US Senate. And there are a few "blue dog Democrats" who will usually side with the Republicans/conservatives on many voes. It's not like the Democratic/Progressive wing can just push through major policy changes without convincing large portions of the Republican/conservatives to come aboard, without convincing the majority of the voting public to agree. One of the main points repeated by Thom Hartmann in his book, "Cracking The Code: The Art and Science Of Political Persuasion," is that when you want to win someone over to your side, it's important to start by finding common ground. What's too often been lost in US (and maybe other) politics is that search for common ground. Back to the thread topic, specifically. I'd say both (all) parties can agree that Senate seats and other public offices should not be up for the highest bidder. We'd probably probably all agree, too, that flagrant wrongdoers need to be removed from office and probably prosecuted beyond that. Like you, I'm pissed that the Democrats - for reasons I have yet to comprehend, much less endorse - seem to lack the spine to thoroughly investigate/prosecute Republican party wrongdoing. (Does someone have serious "art" on Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid?) Still, I hope and have some faith that Barack Obama is a very shrewd, yet basically clean, politician, who has a firm grasp of how to accomplish needed reforms. That probably doesn't mean being always totally above suspicion. I don't know how anyone who was could possibly be elected dogcather. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Bobert Date: 13 Dec 08 - 08:28 AM Well, folks... Seems as if the Republican Party is in such disarray that the only thing they know is to run the same play over and over hoping it will work so expect more of the 90's Republicans with very rich people ponying up to pay for Obama investigations and crate conspiracy theories... But here's the wrinkle in their play book... Not only will they attack, attack, attack Obama but now are perfectly willing to do Boss Hog's biddin' by trying to lay the fault of the econimic meltdown at the feet of unions??? I personally think this ios ill-thought-out on the Repubs part because the working class has had enough of their bullsh*t about just how much ***they*** (Boss Hog) pays in taxes... The Repubs will lose this argument under these econimic circumstances... The working class will not allow the Repubs to put the load on them... It might play well with the Republican Base put the Republican base cannot sustain the Party anymore... But let them flail... I love seeing this... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Riginslinger Date: 13 Dec 08 - 08:57 AM "What your country could do with, is a large measure of fury about being treated like fuckin' idiots." Collectively, we are idiots, and it's not going to get any better until something is done to improve public education. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: akenaton Date: 13 Dec 08 - 04:35 PM Genie....As my friend Bobert has already noted, there is no sign of even the toenail clippings of a progressive polititian in Mr Obama's administration. With the financial edifices crumbling around us and the spectre of the worst depression in living memory looming over us,I will repeat what I said months ago. "The US doesn't need a mealy mouthed Harvard lawyer as leader.....they need a "rabble rouser" to unite the people who will bear the brunt of the crimes committed by previous administrations, both Republican and Democrat....Fuck the politicians, they were instrumental in creating this corrupt mess. Its patently obvious who our real enemies are, so let the people unite against them....not fight and argue amongst themselves. Over here in Scotland we have a saying in the old Scots tongue, "Ye need smeddum tae be richt coorse....or richt kind" "smeddum" is bravery, guts, the ability to be inspired to go on, when the obstacles seem insurmountable....spirited. The American people at this juncture need smeddum to rid themselves of the parasites who have preyed on them for decades and made their country a pariah to the rest of the world.....Ake |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: GUEST, heric Date: 13 Dec 08 - 05:35 PM We are being treated like fuckin idiots. However, I think the problem is more that we are growing lazier while still wealthy, as opposed to collectively idiotic. In about twenty years, people may take to heart what Akenaton is saying now - But as it is, Obama gives us hope and pablum. Ake is an inspiration, and it would be nice to get him a forged birth certificate, but it's too soon for the message. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Ebbie Date: 13 Dec 08 - 07:11 PM "A rabble rouser"? Huh? Someone like Huey Long? Or George Wallace? Or Sarah Palin? Just what do you think the chances are of getting such a person elected in the US? Or in the UK, for that matter. I suggest that you shovel your own manure before you chastise the citizens of another country. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Bobert Date: 13 Dec 08 - 09:35 PM Yo, Ake, Yeah, I'm not terribly impressed with the folks that Obama has appointed but I do understand his strategy... Me??? I woulda had every nufall leftie I could find but that's me... Obama, on the other hand, ain't me an' he's gonna try to pull an end-around on the establishment usin' establishment players... Hey, it's ballsy but it might work... I'll be the first to admit that I would have picked Dennis Kucinich to be Secretary of Stte but maybe Hillary (oh, I hate to say this) will do a better job than Dennis would have done... I donno... I'll give Obama 6 months to a year and then make asessments... Until then I'll blast away where I think it is needed... Remember, Ake, that I am kinda new at this... Ya know, supporting a Dem... Last time I did this was when Jimmy Carter was elected so... ...I'm a little outta practice.... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: GUEST,Sawzaw Date: 13 Dec 08 - 11:28 PM Bobert: Tell us that funny story again about Obama buying that beat up airplane and he had to spend $500,000 in campaign money on it to make it acceptable. You know with the custom embroidered seats and so forth? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Amos Date: 13 Dec 08 - 11:34 PM "CHICAGO (Reuters) - President-elect Barack Obama's choice for White House chief of staff spoke to Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich's office about who the governor should appoint to replace Obama in the U.S. Senate, the Chicago Tribune reported on Saturday. The talks did not suggest that Rahm Emanuel, currently a Chicago congressman, was involved in an alleged deal-making scheme for the Senate seat that has resulted in federal charges against Blagojevich, a 52-year-old Democrat. The two-term governor and his former chief of staff John Harris are charged with attempting to peddle the Senate position for campaign cash or a lucrative job for the governor, as well as paid corporate board appointments for his wife. The Tribune, citing sources, reported that contact between Obama's staff and the governor's administration about the Senate seat started days before the November 4 election. The governor has sole power to appoint a replacement for Obama. Emanuel called Harris with a list of names "acceptable" to Obama to fill the Senate vacancy, in conversations that were captured on court-approved wiretaps, the newspaper said." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: akenaton Date: 14 Dec 08 - 05:16 AM "Just what do you think the chances are of getting such a person elected in the US? Or in the UK, for that matter." That is exactly the point Ebbie........Sometimes....most of the time, the electoral process will not produce the required product......as in "progressive change" We all know we need it. We will never get it with an administration of old guard capitalist warmongers. The folks who made significant change towards a fairer better society, did so through people power, bypassing the corrupt electoral system. Sometimes, if we REALLY want to change things, we must be prepared to get our hands dirty! Don't lecture me on "my country"....."your country". We have lost children to "Your" war and will suffer much hardship, in large measure by the actions of "Your" financial institutions! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Riginslinger Date: 14 Dec 08 - 08:14 AM "The Tribune, citing sources, reported that contact between Obama's staff and the governor's administration about the Senate seat started days before the November 4 election. The governor has sole power to appoint a replacement for Obama." It's important not to lose track of the fact that "The Tribune" is a player in all of this. Further, it continues to amaze me that Sam Zell can take the company into bankruptcy and it doesn't affect his finances personally. He bought the paper in 2007, Obama gets elected in 2008, and right after the election the paper goes into bankruptcy after prolonged attacks on the governor. It's just all too weird! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Bobert Date: 14 Dec 08 - 08:19 AM Bush was right about one thing, Ake, when he said "you are either with us or against us", Ake, ol' buddy, 'cause this ain't Ebbie's war anymore than it is my war or your war... It is "their" war and "they" know exactly who "they" are here in Mudville... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Riginslinger Date: 15 Dec 08 - 08:12 AM Then there's Patrick Fitzgerald. Word on the street is, he brought this investigation to the public now so he wouldn't be fired after Obama took over. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Rapparee Date: 15 Dec 08 - 08:52 AM He can still be put out of work. Happens all the time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Riginslinger Date: 15 Dec 08 - 09:09 AM Oh yeah, he can be. But if Obama dismissed him in the middle of the investigation, it would look like he (Obama) had something to hide, and wanted the inquirery discontinued. It's customary for incoming administrations to disimiss all the federal attorneys, and start with new appointees, unless that attorney is involved in an ongoing investigation. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 15 Dec 08 - 09:21 AM Riginslinger asserted, in part: Word on the street is, "Word on the street" here meaning "hostile speculation", without any attribution. The launching of an ill-natured rumor. Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Riginslinger Date: 15 Dec 08 - 10:11 AM Dave - It's simply an observation; nothing hostile about it. But there's this from the Herald Tribune: 'Fitzgerald has said nothing about his future as Barack Obama prepares to assume the presidency, often an occasion for turnover among U.S. attorneys. But Richard Durbin, the senior senator from Illinois and a Democrat, has publicly called on Obama to keep Fitzgerald on, and the betting is that he will remain in the job." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Genie Date: 15 Dec 08 - 05:57 PM Riginslinger, " It's customary for incoming administrations to disimiss all the federal attorneys, and start with new appointees, unless that attorney is involved in an ongoing investigation." It's perfectly legal -- the new administration does not have to show "cause" for replacing the attorneys in the Judicial Dept. -- but I don't know that it's all that "customary." What IS unusual is for those attorneys NOT to be perfunctorily replaced at the outset of a new administration but to be fired later, mid-term, for not prosecuting enough people in the opposing party(ies) or for pursuing prosecutions of people in the administration's own party. That's what the G W Bush administration has been doing. And the Dems are wimps for not investigating those firings. The Justice Dept. is not supposed to be an arm of any political party. Those attorneys are supposed to apply the law with equal vigor, no matter who is suspected of violating it. As for Fitzgerald fearing Obama would fire him, I'd say there's little basis for such fear. Obama's already shown willingness -- too much, in the minds of most progressives -- to keep on key people from the Bush administration and to behave in a "post-partisan" way. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 15 Dec 08 - 06:46 PM ALL THE SEATS are for sale...ask any lobbyist! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Riginslinger Date: 15 Dec 08 - 08:15 PM Genie - I didn't explain myself very well. I didn't mean to suggest that Fitzgerald would fear that Obama would fire him. Fitzgerald could certainly find a position that would pay many times what he makes as a US Attorney. The thing that seems to drive Fitzgerald is not money, but the trail of the hunt. He wants to see the cesspool of Chicago politics drained. If the Blagojevich thing had not been exposed now, the case might very well have gone undetected by the media. By bringing the whole thing public now, Fitzgerald has stressed the point that other "Blago" connections should be followed. That would include Tony Rezko and others who have had contact with Obama and his chief of staff, and other members of his Chicago political ties. If the case had not been made public now, those connections probably would not have surfaced until historians had a go at them sometime in the future. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Genie Date: 15 Dec 08 - 08:23 PM "If the Blagojevich thing had not been exposed now, the case might very well have gone undetected by the media." Seriouslyb doubt that, Rig. The bigger danger - and I think Fitzgerald wanted to avert this - was that Blago would go ahead and appoint someone to the Senate, which would then make the Senator appointee suspect. That would have been a much bigger can of worms to have to deal with. It certainly makes sense for Blagojevich to be busted before he did that much more damage. As for the media, au contraire. They'd have had a field day with a humongous, widespread political scancal that could be seen (spun) as threatening to bring down the Illinois governor, other Illinois politicians, the new Democratic administration, and perhaps the Democratic party as a whole. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Riginslinger Date: 15 Dec 08 - 08:36 PM They didn't seem to know a thing about it until Fitzgerald made his announcement. And then there's the problem with the Chicago media, and whose pocket they might be in. Sam Zell was considering the governors demands, at least by some accounts, to can some of the Tribunes editorial staff. He, of course, looks out for number one. The way it is now, though, it could easily become the next Whitewater. Kenneth Starr must be chomping at the bit. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Genie Date: 15 Dec 08 - 09:12 PM Seems to me you're the one chomping at the bit, Rig. *g* Oh, and Whitewater turned out to be much ado (and much taxpayer money spent) about nothing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Riginslinger Date: 15 Dec 08 - 10:12 PM Exactly! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 16 Dec 08 - 01:37 AM From: Genie Date: 15 Dec 08 - 09:12 PM Seems to me you're the one chomping at the bit, Rig. *g* Oh, and Whitewater turned out to be much ado (and much taxpayer money spent) about nothing. Expecting Starr to 'find out' anything was like asking the weasel to guard the hen house! He wasn't supposed to find anything...just give the appearance that something exhaustive was being done! The higher the game, the shallower the motive! Bush/Clinton, have long ago been in bed with each other. Fooled you again, didn't they?? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Riginslinger Date: 16 Dec 08 - 02:48 PM My best guess is, there wasn't anything to find, and they knew that before kicking off the investigation. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: DougR Date: 16 Dec 08 - 05:14 PM Obama made it quite clear at a recent press conference that his choice for Chief of Staff at the White House met with the Governor or his representatives and presented a list of nominees Obama would find acceptable to fill his senate seat. It has been reported that the Governor expressed disgust (to put it nicely) that all he could expect from Obama, should he award the senate seat to someone on his list, would be "appreciation." I cannot believe that Rahm Emmanuel did NOT report this information to Obama. If he did, Obama was aware of the Governor's illegal efforts BEFORE Fitzgerald held his press conference and broke the news to the world. I believe that Obama could be culpable for not reporting the Governor's shenanigans to proper authorities. Remember, Obama was not aware that Fitzgerald had the evidence on tape. Better still, Obama should have called a press conference and exposed the Governor himself. That would have made him a hero and would have assured the public that he truly planned to mount a transparent administration. Anyone who believes Obama had anything to do with the possible selling of his senate seat is just not thinking clearly. He is not stupid. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Bobert Date: 16 Dec 08 - 05:31 PM Maybe you haven't noticed, Dougie, but Obama has been extremely busy of late in making appointments and getting his transition team up and running... He's probablu putting in some long days and, guess what, the choice of who will replace him in the Senate is something that he really doesn have time to get bogged down with and is letting his staff do what any responsibile staff would do in making the various contacts... I know that the Repubs are despondant because they just got trashed in the election but playing the same old Watergate play isn't going to help them one bit in the long run... They need to find an identity that is something other than snooping and bashing... Snooping and bashing ain't in these days... That is why Obama won with such a large margain... My suggestions to the Repbs is hire some control groups and run some of this stuff by them before the knee-jerk stuff... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Genie Date: 16 Dec 08 - 06:26 PM Doug, you're right that Obama isn't stupid enough to have offered Blagojevich anything but his appreciation for considering the replacement candidates he found acceptable. But for him to have 'blown the whistle' on Blago, he'd have to have known what the governor was doing, and for all we know, it never got any further than Blago CONTEMPLATING "selling" the Senate seat and discussing with his own staff the wish to do so. We don't know that he actually ever proffered a quid-pro-quo to anyone. The taped conversation where Blago says of Obama, "F___ him!" was not a conversation with a member of Obama's staff. How do you know Rahm Emmanuel knew about that conversation? It's also possible that someone on Obama's team did 'drop a dime' on the governor, but we don't really know if any of them had enough evidence of any illegal activity to warrant running to the feds with it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Bobert Date: 16 Dec 08 - 06:39 PM Doesn't much matter to Dougie, Genie... He's a team player and if the Repubs decide that their best game plan is to try to make chicken salad outta chicken sh*t then by golly that's what they are gonna try to do... But it isn't going to work 'casue the American people are fed up with brand of politics and if the Repubs push it they will find themselves a 3rd Party in the not too distant future... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Riginslinger Date: 17 Dec 08 - 08:04 PM Well, the court's not going to do it! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Bobert Date: 17 Dec 08 - 08:17 PM No, looks as if the Illinois legislature is gonna have to do it and to tall ya' the truth, Rigs, it ain't a slam dunk... I couldn't give a rat's ass what happens as long as it is entertaining and the Repubs get off their kick to try to get Obama sucked into the noise... Yeah, I know that I'm supposed to be against an election because that might get a Repub into fill a Dem seat... Hell's Bells... I couldn't care less... I just want get some entertainment outta this... It's kinda like a side show at the carnival... It's time to rumble so get it on... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Genie Date: 18 Dec 08 - 02:52 PM Well, the Dems have extra reason to be pissed at Blagojevich. Not only have his shenanigans (going way back before this Senate seat thing) been a black mark on the party in Chigago, but they may result in the Dems losing a Senate seat that should have been theirs. Still, what Blagojevich is accused of re the Senate appointment is not that far afield of the LEGAL horsetrading that goes on among politicians and lobbyists. And the Bush administration has been as heavily involved in trading government appointments for political favors as anyone else I can think of, if not more so. What wonders might we uncover if Patrick Fitzgerald were turned loose on Bush and Cheney and all their cohorts? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: pdq Date: 18 Dec 08 - 03:00 PM "Bush administration has been as heavily involved in trading government appointments for political favors as anyone else..." One shred of evidence? Perhaps all you need is haterd for all Republicans and a closed mind in order to make an unsubstantiated statement like that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Riginslinger Date: 18 Dec 08 - 06:23 PM "What wonders might we uncover if Patrick Fitzgerald were turned loose on Bush and Cheney..." Didn't we go down this street with the Valerie Plame thing? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Genie Date: 18 Dec 08 - 06:35 PM The Bush administration has protected its ranks from many investigations that could have shown illegal actions; they have redacted or outright destroyed many potentially incriminating documents. Some of the "shredding" or other document destruction was not legal; some of it has been, for the moment, protected by the overextension of so-called "executive privilege" (by the same factions who wanted the Secret Service to be subpoenaed to testify against Bill Clinton in the Lewinsky matter). I'd add that the Democratic leadership in both the House and Senate have been way too reticent to undertake Congressional investigation of suspected illegal actions of people in the G B Bush administration. The firing of attorneys in the Federal Dept. Of Justice on political grounds and replacing them with highly partisan attorneys is just one of the areas where, even if this were to be fully adjudicated and found to be legal, it's still political horse-trading and putting partisan goals above the even-handed execution of law. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Bobert Date: 18 Dec 08 - 06:44 PM Actually Genie has brought up something that I hadn't thought of and that is if Blago gets busted up big time over this then the Dems can just go ahead with the investigations of the dozen or se Bush scandals and say, "Hey we did it to our guy so what are you complaining about???" So crank up the bus... Sorry, Blagz... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Riginslinger Date: 19 Dec 08 - 05:48 PM It looks like Blago is determined to stay! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 20 Dec 08 - 06:08 AM From: Riginslinger Date: 19 Dec 08 - 05:48 PM It looks like Blago is determined to stay! Well good for him!! Like so many politicians who like the comfort of getting an "E Ticket" on the Titanic! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: pdq Date: 08 Jan 09 - 01:45 PM Meet the Blagojevich burger: meat, cheese and a hefty slice of bologna By Christopher Borrelli | Tribune reporter January 7, 2009 The #!@%¿ Blagojevich Burger at Kuma's Corner is a &%$! valuable hamburger. This thing is &!%$ golden. I mean, they're not just &^%$# giving it away. It costs $10. But as a note on the chalkboard of this popular Avondale burger joint on Chicago's Northwest Side makes plain: "Price is negotiable." Which is generous, for the #!@%¿ Blagojevich Burger—also known as the "Bleeping Blagojevich Burger"—is genius, not merely named in honor of Gov. Rod Blagojevich, with a vague metaphorical connection, like most sandwiches named for politicians or celebrities. The #!@%¿ Blagojevich is deeply evocative of the man. Or so we hear. It is the invention of Kuma owner Michael Caine, who once sold a Chicago City Council Burger, topped with foie gras. That was much tastier. But then, &*!% 'em: The Blago begins with a 10-ounce patty, a feisty foundation that remains nonetheless in the @$ background, marrying well with the *&^@# condiments; the patty is best ordered pale pink for maximum evocativeness. Next, the burger is topped with a very thick slice of bologna, ensuring every bite of beef is undercut by a mouthful of salty, startlingly bold baloney. The grandest touch, however, is the "bun." Burger and bologna are held between grilled cheese sandwiches of Wonder Bread and processed American cheese. The grace note: yellow mustard, squirted into the shape of a dollar sign. For the record, it went down surprisingly smoothly. However, once we picked off the bologna, we were left with a lot of cheese. Caine has sold about 70 since last week, and he won't take less than $10. "But if you want to pay more, sure." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Riginslinger Date: 08 Jan 09 - 10:18 PM I hadn't realized Michael Caine was in the burger business. He ought to get together with Ted Turner and work on something using Bison meat. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Sawzaw Date: 09 Jan 09 - 12:26 AM Illinois GOP wants closer look at Burris, Blagojevich tiesBy Drew Griffin and Scott Bronstein CNN Special Investigations UnitSPRINGFIELD, Illinois (CNN) -- Did Roland Burris secure his appointment to Barack Obama's vacant Senate seat through some kind of pay-to-play politics of the very sort that have tainted the man who appointed him, Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich? Roland Burris told reporters in Washington on Wednesday his appointment has nothing to do with money. Republicans in the Illinois state legislature are asking that question, and they want Burris, the former Illinois attorney general, to answer in person at a hearing scheduled for Thursday on Blagojevich's impeachment. And the question is reverberating back to Washington, where Democratic leaders have been blocking Burris from taking the Senate seat, saying the appointment is tainted by Blagojevich, who was arrested last month and accused of trying to sell the seat for money and influence. Blagojevich, however, has not been indicted and remains governor. He and Burris say the appointment is legal. In a written affidavit given to the impeachment panel, Burris said he had one limited conversation with the governor about the Senate seat before he was appointed. And that conversation, he said, was initiated by a Blagojevich attorney. But records show the two men have long ties to each other -- including lucrative state contracts, political contributions and even a job for the governor's wife. Those records are raising thorny questions from state officials, particularly Republicans. "I want Mr. Burris to, under oath, talk about that, about exactly when his interest in his seat, when he became interested in the seat," said Republican State Rep. Jim Durkin, "how far back it went, who did he talk to, and exactly the communication that went back and forth between him and the governor and any type of documentation which he may have given to the governor." On Wednesday, Burris told reporters in Washington that his selection had nothing to do with money or any pay-to-play scheme. "There is certainly no pay-to-play involved, because I don't have no money," said Burris, who returned later in the day to Illinois, where he planned to appear Thursday before the impeachment panel. Don't Miss "I'm going to tell them exactly what transpired between the governor and I," he told reporters when he arrived in Chicago. Illinois state records show Burris, who once ran against Blagojevich for the Democratic nomination for governor, and his lobbying firm have contributed more than $20,000 to the governor's political campaigns. Two years ago, Burris hosted a $1,000-per-plate fund-raiser for Blagojevich. What's more, Burris's consulting firm -- Burris & Lebed Consulting -- has won nearly $300,000 in state contracts over the past four years. Finally, the governor's wife, Patti, was hired in September to an $80,000-a-year job with the Chicago Christian Industrial League, where Burris' lobbying partner is a board member...... http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/07/burris.blagojevich.gop/index.html |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Riginslinger Date: 09 Jan 09 - 06:19 AM Still, Burris is probably cleaner than any of the other candidates mentioned. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 09 Jan 09 - 01:29 PM The Theory of Intelligence Coupla guys, leaning on the bar, on their next-to-last (6th) beer of the night. 'Well you see, Charlie, it's like this. A herd of buffalo can only move as fast as the slowest buffalo. And when the herd is hunted, it is the slowest and weakest ones at the back that are killed first. This natural selection is good for the herd as a whole, because the general speed and health of the whole group keeps improving by the regular killing of the weakest members. In much the same way, the human brain can only operate as fast as the slowest brain cells. Now, as we know, excessive intake of alcohol kills brain cells. But naturally, it attacks the slowest and weakest brain cells first. In this way, regular consumption of beer eliminates the weaker brain cells, making the brain a faster and more efficient machine. And that, Charlie, is why you always feel smarter after a few beers.' |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Riginslinger Date: 09 Jan 09 - 01:49 PM It makes sense to me. So for Blagojevich to get out of this mess, all he has to do is drink more beer. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 09 Jan 09 - 02:03 PM Actually, that joke was supposed to go into the First Joke Thread for 2009. However, Rig may be right. Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: pdq Date: 09 Jan 09 - 02:07 PM "Finally, the governor's wife, Patti, was hired in September to an $80,000-a-year job with the Chicago Christian Industrial League, where Burris' lobbying partner is a board member..." One of the items mentioned in taped conversations as possible compensation for the Senate appointment (sale), was a fat job for his wife. You know, the kind of job you don't have to show up to do. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: SINSULL Date: 09 Jan 09 - 02:08 PM The joke's on us... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: gnu Date: 09 Jan 09 - 02:11 PM Time for some old fashioned justice? On accounta real justice don't seem ta be gettin done. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Riginslinger Date: 09 Jan 09 - 02:12 PM "was a fat job for his wife." Better than a job for his fat wife, which would have sounded really bad on tape. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Amos Date: 09 Jan 09 - 02:50 PM SPRINGFIELD, Ill. — The Illinois House of Representatives voted overwhelmingly to impeach Gov. Rod R. Blagojevich on Friday morning on the grounds of abuse of power as the state's chief executive. He is the first governor in Illinois's history to be impeached, and his case now goes to the state Senate for trial. The Illinois House of Representatives debated a resolution to impeach Governor Rod R. Blagojevich on Friday in Springfield. The House deliberated less than an hour and a half before voting 114 to 1 to oust the governor, just one day after a 21-member House investigative committee unanimously recommended impeachment. The only member to vote against impeachment was Milton Patterson, a Democrat from Chicago. No one spoke up to defend Mr. Blagojevich. The last governor to be impeached was Evan Mecham of Arizona, who was removed from office in 1988 after serving 15 months. Mr. Blagojevich, 52, was jogging in his Chicago neighborhood when the vote came down. He has scheduled a press conference this afternoon. Legislators spent the morning discussing the merits of the case against Mr. Blagojevich, the two-term Democrat who has been embroiled in a sprawling legal and political drama since his arrest on Dec. 9 on federal corruption charges, including accusations that he schemed to sell the United States Senate seat formerly held by President-elect Barack Obama. (NYT) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Riginslinger Date: 09 Jan 09 - 10:54 PM The New York Times seems to think it is important to impeach Blago before some of this shit splashes over on Obama. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Sawzaw Date: 10 Jan 09 - 01:32 AM Patti's Fundraising May Not Save 100-Year-Old ShelterCAROL MARIN and DON MOSELEY Chicago Sun TimesPatti Blagojevich is the fundraiser for the Christian Industrial League, a 99-year-old homeless shelter and outreach center, but it remains in dire financial straits and has even discussed the possibility of bankruptcy. Every Monday through Friday Illinois First Lady Patti Blagojevich arrives at the Chicago Christian Industrial League to raise money to help the city's most needy citizens. Hired last September, she works out of a small office in the League's brand new facility in North Lawndale. The First Lady has not spoken publicly since her husband, Gov. Rod Blagojevich, was arrested by the FBI on corruption charges on December 9, 2008. She agreed to be photographed but declined to speak to both NBC Chicago and the Chicago Sun-Times. Patti Blagojevich was hired as a fundraiser for the 99-year-old institution, but an investigation by the Chicago Sun-Times and NBC Chicago shows the Christian Industrial League is in dire financial trouble and that internally, the Board members have discussed the possibility of bankruptcy. According to the Christian Industrial League's interim executive director, Mary Shaver, private funding has dropped, federal HUD money has been lost and the facility is now only half full. Many of the financial problems can be traced back to when the Christian Industrial League moved from its home in Greektown to a plot on Roosevelt Road. The new $25 million state-of-the-art shelter opened in 2006. It provides food for the hungry, beds for the homeless, and job training for the willing. For 97 years, the Christian Industrial League was located in Chicago's Greektown neighborhood, an area that in the last decade has become prime real estate. Today condos selling for more than a half a million dollars sit on the old site. Among the condo developers are two politically powerful and well-connected businessmen. Michael Marchese is one of Mayor Richard Daley's closest friends. William Cellini is a Springfield multi-millionaire indicted in the ongoing pay-to-play federal investigation. An investigation by Chicago Sun-Times reporter Tim Novak shows that taxpayers of the City of Chicago paid $13.5 million to facilitate the Christian Industrial League's 2006 move from Greektown to North Lawndale. And with that move the Marchese-Cellini team was free to begin building. The Christian Industrial League was ready to move after nearly a century at the old site. "The buildings were falling down around us," Shaver said. But trouble was already looming, according to documents obtained by the Sun-Times. Memos written by officials inside City Hall and the Christian Industrial League warned the mayor's office that costs associated with the move were out of control. "There's a four year trail that shows the Christian Industrial League never had any money to fund its share of the building," according to Sun Times reporter Tim Novak, "which is why they ended up hiring Patti Blagojevich."........... She is failing at her job, the place is going bankrupt but she still gets paid. The city pays for them to tear down the old building and move so fat cats one of them charged with extortion, can build condos. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Riginslinger Date: 10 Jan 09 - 09:59 AM Well, hopefully all of this will come out in the impeachment hearings. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale From: Sawzaw Date: 17 Feb 09 - 03:24 PM Should Burris be Scootered off to jail for perjury? SPRINGFIELD, Ill. â€" U.S. Sen. Roland Burris has acknowledged trying to raise money for former Gov. Rod Blagojevich before being appointed to the Senate. According to a transcript posted on the Chicago Tribune's Web site, Burris told reporters in Peoria Monday night that he talked to some friends about putting together a fundraiser after being called by the ex-governor's brother. But Burris says he told Rob Blagojevich shortly after the November election that he couldn't get any friends to contribute and suggested he might be able to find others. Burris testified last month to a committee that recommended impeaching Rod Blagojevich that he had told only one Blagojevich associate he was interested in being senator. But he released an affidavit over the weekend indicating he had spoken to four others, including the calls from Rob Blagojevich. |
