BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Lox
Date: 29 Jan 10 - 03:43 AM

"It would be equally mathematically correct, and equally meaningless to state,
"Since 1975, the rise in heterosexual HIV infection is over a billion, trillion percent!" "


No it wouldn't.


The 500% stat tells us about a significant change in heterosexuals which is going on NOW - TODAY.

This is directly relevant to this dicsussion and completely undermines the assertion that heterosexaual education is unnecessary and wasteful.

When you bear in mind that 10% think you can't get pregnant if you have sex standing up, you get a snapshot of some very vulnerable and at risk young straight people in our society.


The billion trillion % stat tells us that in 1975 we discovered a disease called AIDS.

So the 500% stat is relevant and meaningful.

And the comparison you have made is a bad one.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Jan 10 - 03:19 AM

Don: 'Obviously, by what they've been posting for some time now, both Ake and GfS are dancing in rage and peeing their pants.'

Dream on!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Jan 10 - 03:07 AM

All I have done is to correct your misleading and exagerated claims and bring some objectivity into the debate.
Now the 500% increase.
It is mathematically correct.
It would be equally mathematically correct, and equally meaningless to state,
"Since 1975, the rise in heterosexual HIV infection is over a billion, trillion percent!"

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 29 Jan 10 - 02:28 AM

Keith still not found a point yet.

Full of figures and facts, no idea how to use them. Typical teacher. You're like some spotty lower-6th debating captain.

So what are your proposals for reducing the burden of HIV on all affected groups, Keith?

As you know, I advocate outreach, education. There is an awful lot of going on and there needs to be more. There needs to more general education to instill the information as widely and as early as possible.

Anyone made a donation to an HIV charity yet?

What do you propose, Keith? What is your point?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 29 Jan 10 - 02:19 AM

Ake: Royston seemed to be happily waiting for the day when hetero infection rates reached parity with homo rates.....that is sad in itself, but these figures prove that he will never get his longed for wish.

You lying shit for brains. I have been advocating education and outreach programmes - unversal education - while you and Keith have been saying the exact opposite - that there is no point helping straight people. Idiot.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 29 Jan 10 - 02:16 AM

Ake: The up to date statistic from UNAID completely demolish al of the oppositions arguments in one fell swoop.

hiv infections globally down 17%
infections in SS Africa down 15%
new diagnoses for MSM....in UK up 74%.....in Europe up 39% in 3yrs


And straight british white people up 500% in the same period.

Straight, white, British people rather seem to be at the top of global league table for increasing rates of infection. What's your solution for their peculiarly dangerous lifestyle?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Jan 10 - 02:02 AM

"Not once in this whole discussion have you responded to the fact that 96% of gay males are HIV negative."

Much has been made of the fact that "only" 4% have HIV.
(The corresponding figure for straight men would be about 0.0007%)

One, tragic reason the figure is so low is that it has killed so many already.
How much bigger would the figure be if the 18 000 gay dead could be restored to their natural lifespan?
If there was a land where an incurable, fatal disease had already killed a large chunk of the population, and 4% of the survivors had it, there would be official warnings not to got there.
The international community would probably impose a quarantine.
Even the great flu pandemic of 1918 only killed 3% of the population.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 09:49 PM

Si!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 08:34 PM

Que?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 08:24 PM

Obviously, by what they've been posting for some time now, both Ake and GfS are dancing in rage and peeing their pants.

Any powers of rational argument they ever might have had (if, indeed, any at all) have totally escaped them.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Smedley
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 07:56 PM

This is what I said about my father:



"I loved my Dad, by the way, he loved me and he couldn't have been kinder & more supportive to myself and my partner."


And that makes him homophobic.....how ?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 07:56 PM

""Don.... go and read the UNAID figures, I take no pleasure from the fact that homosexual infection rates are continuing to rise so steeply.....it will ultimately mean more illness and death....unless more effective measures are taken to combat it.

Royston seemed to be happily waiting for the day when hetero infection rates reached parity with homo rates.....that is sad in itself, but these figures prove that he will never get his longed for wish.""

Ake, you are the one who set so much store by percentages, yet you ignore them when they prove you wrong.

Between 2000 and 2007, the total number of new gay male infections diagnosed in the UK, irrespective of country of origin, rose by 74%.

Between 2000 and 2009, the total number of hetero UK acquired infections rose by 500%.

Yet, you insist that the way forward is to concentrate on homosexual males, and ignore the heterosexual situation.

Not once in this whole discussion have you responded to the fact that 96% of gay males are HIV negative.

You are so blinded by your own agenda, which is, apparently, to isolate and disenfranchise homosexuals, to deprive them of civil rights, and force them into accepting curtailment of both choice and liberty, that you can't even discuss the ninety six out of every hundred who don't fit your stereotype.

So you simply ignore all reference to them.

Not good enough pal.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Smedley
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 07:51 PM

If you can't read, that's hardly my problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 07:49 PM

Smeds;"OK, thanks for that,dearest darling GfS.

You're welcome!

I hope the other readers of thread have now noted that GfS thinks love between non-heterosexuals is stupid, immature, childish and ridiculous."

No, just your post. Funny how you omitted what I said about your Dad, being a homophobe, because he was heterosexual, as your post alluded to.

Never mind, don't reply. You just keep getting sillier.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 07:46 PM

Hi Sanity. Dont worry, I think they'll pull through......after an all night hand job!!   :0)

I think they call it "comfort beating"

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Smedley
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 07:44 PM

OK, thanks for that,dearest darling GfS.

I hope the other readers of thread have now noted that GfS thinks love between non-heterosexuals is stupid, immature, childish and ridiculous.

Might I suggest that others henceforth cease asking him for his arguments. He has none. All he has is embittered, scared, petty, venomous, cretinous prejudice.

Oh and about 1735 children, each one sired with his mighty and majestic tool. I expect we'll see a statue of it erected before too long, a veritable Mount Rushmore of pulsatingly fecund manhood. I expect it's visible from space, like some throb-heavy Great Wall of China. Maybe Mel Gibson will direct a film about it, though it would have to be wide-screen.

GfS: truly America's most crucial cock.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 07:39 PM

""DonT: You keep saying 'homosexual promiscuity'...I said.......
'Promiscuity!!!!!'""

Come off it.

Your contention all through has been the same as Ake's, that homosexuals are the problem.

And not just on this thread.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 07:38 PM

Hi, Ake. Can you believe this angst against the obvious??....Jeez!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 07:35 PM

Don.... go and read the UNAID figures, I take no pleasure from the fact that homosexual infection rates are continuing to rise so steeply.....it will ultimately mean more illness and death....unless more effective measures are taken to combat it.

Royston seemed to be happily waiting for the day when hetero infection rates reached parity with homo rates.....that is sad in itself, but these figures prove that he will never get his longed for wish.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 07:33 PM

DonT: You keep saying 'homosexual promiscuity'...I said.......
'Promiscuity!!!!!'

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 07:28 PM

Smeds: "Your silence (in response to my request( speaks volumes, GfS."

I think I answered that, already...." medley, I was going to 'copy and paste' as segment from your stupidly childish post:From: Smedley Date: 28 Jan 10 - 03:03 AM ..but it was ALL so stupid and immature,.."

What part of 'ALL' don't you understand??

'All' means 'all', and that's 'all' all means!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 07:25 PM

Ake, you really should make an effort to keep up.

Both Royston and I have already dealt with the poiints you have just raised.

Try reading all the posts, otherwise you will get even more confused.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 07:22 PM

GfS, both you and Ake rattle on constantly about homosexual promiscuity.

Just four in every hundred gay men are HIV positive. This simply does not support the claims of rampant promiscuity. Rather the opposite.

You have repeatedly stated that the highest risk factor is anal sex between males.

Please explain how 96% of gay men could possibly beat the odds so comprehensively.

Could it be that your cherished perception of gay men as promiscuous risk takers is wrong?

Could it be, that, in common with heterosexuals, their pairings are about other things than sex, perhaps even the "L" word, which you always place in inverted commas.

You have all signally failed to address the above questions, and unless you can do so in a logical manner, your whole argument is in tatters.

Your comments please.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 07:12 PM

Well Keith, I guess you must have got these statistics from crazy Christian fundamentalist websit as Don says.......Oh! UNAID! but that means they're agreeing with what I've been saying for years about the dangers of homosexual practice?.......that can't be right cause Don, Lox n' Royston say I'm a "vile, perverted, shit for brains, homophobic bigot"......and they're never wrong??

The up to date statistic from UNAID completely demolish al of the oppositions arguments in one fell swoop.

hiv infections globally down 17%
infections in SS Africa down 15%
new diagnoses for MSM....in UK up 74%.....in Europe up 39% in 3yrs

"The re-emergence of the epidemic among MSM is now clearly apparent"

"The UK needs to re-prioritise hiv prevention among homosexual men otherwise we risk falling further behind"

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Smedley
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 07:10 PM

Your silence (in response to my request( speaks volumes, GfS.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity 1400???
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 07:04 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 07:03 PM

Don Perhaps you would like to give your interpretation of the following from Ake, whom you have been supporting for months past.

""You Lox and Royston(Smedley must have seen the light), are the ones who seem unable to grasp what the figures show.
I repeat how high must the homosexual infection figure,or African immigrant figures go before we are compelled to take some action?""T. "

He is quoting from Ake, not me....my post about HIV/Aids was:

From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Jan 10 - 02:50 AM

Personally, I think if you find your spouse, who was not promiscuous, and you valued that in your partner, enough to be that way, for the person you were to love, enough to feel as if passing it to your kids, and being as you love one another, there wouldn't be the controversy about who has more cases of AIDS/HIV!..would there? but we always make allowances, for the lowest of intelligence!..You don't think so????...ok, ......its like arguing about having one bullet, or two, because playing Russian Roulette, feels good!.........

Promiscuity!!!!!

Don T: "BTW, your link still isn't a blue clicky."

My 'blue clicky' doesn't work for some reason. Right click over the link, and an option comes up to 'search the web'..when it comes up, click on it.(it may open a new tab for you, click that.

Don Firth, Your definitions of 'liberal' that you used are misleading. 'Liberal' in political context, means a liberal interpretation of the Constitution, as opposed to a Conservative interpretation.

You knew that...I think!
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 06:50 PM

My answer to that asinine comment from Ake would be.....The figures would need to be much higher than 4 percent.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Smedley
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 06:49 PM

My last sentence needs an "other than" added after "alternative".

Sorry if that didn't need pointing out.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 06:48 PM

Ake uses the word "liberal" rather—well--liberally as a pejorative term. Obviously, he is opposed to liberalism.

So what is liberalism all about?

Liberalism (from the Latin liberalis, "of freedom; worthy of a free man, gentlemanlike, courteous, generous") is the belief in the importance of individual freedom. This belief is widely accepted today throughout the world, and was recognized as an important value by many philosophers throughout history. The Roman Emperor Marcus Aurelius wrote praising "the idea of a polity administered with regard to equal rights and equal freedom of speech, and the idea of a kingly government which respects, most of all, the freedom of the governed".

Liberalism was an important idea in the Age of Enlightenment, rejecting many foundational assumptions that dominated most earlier theories of government, such as the Divine Right of Kings, hereditary status, and established religion. John Locke is often credited with laying the philosophical foundations of liberalism arguing strongly for limited government. He wrote "no one ought to harm another in his life, liberty, or possessions."

In the 17th Century, liberal ideas began to influence governments in Europe, in nations such as The Netherlands, Switzerland, England and Poland, but they were strongly opposed, often by armed might, by those who favored absolute monarchy and established religion. In the 18th Century, in America, the first modern liberal state was founded, without a monarch or a hereditary aristocracy. The American Declaration of Independence includes the words (which echo Locke) "all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; that to insure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."

According to John N. Gray, the essence of liberalism is toleration of different beliefs and of different ideas as to what constitutes a good life.

I would say that Ake knows as much about liberals, liberalism, and "the liberal agenda" as he knows about most of the things he talks about.

Zero. Zip. Zilch. Nada!

Ake and GfS have no solutions to the problems they allege are caused by homosexuals that they are willing to express frankly and openly. The truth is that all of Ake's flogging of HIV/AIDs figures and GfS's claims about same-sex orientation being a psychological abberation that needs to be "cured" are just a couple of weak excuses. They want all gays herded into a ghetto, then lock them in, and throw away the key.

As a liberal, I protest!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 06:48 PM

""that gay men need to be in some way controlled or punished - not helped or supported. They argue that homosexuality is uniquely harmful."

Both parts of that asinine statement are bold faced lies!""

Perhaps you would like to give your interpretation of the following from Ake, whom you have been supporting for months past.



""You Lox and Royston(Smedley must have seen the light), are the ones who seem unable to grasp what the figures show.
I repeat how high must the homosexual infection figure,or African immigrant figures go before we are compelled to take some action?""


Your comments GfS?

BTW, your link still isn't a blue clicky.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Smedley
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 06:43 PM

GfS, I really would appreciate knowing which parts of my post are stupid, childish, immature and ridiculous. It would not only help me but would enable others to ascertain the detailed core of your viewpoint.

In the absence of such specifics we might have no alternative to conclude that you are only resorting to abuse because you have nothing else to offer.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 06:18 PM

Royston: "Ake and GfS and others argue that it is the *fault* of gay men, that it is only a problem for gay men, that gay men need to be in some way controlled or punished - not helped or supported. They argue that homosexuality is uniquely harmful."

Both parts of that asinine statement are bold faced lies!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 06:16 PM

Sorry, Don....try:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFwMvlPu4Qw

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 06:02 PM

Keith, you're straight back at it again.

When did anyone ever claim that HIV was NOT a disease that affected predominantly gay men in the West? Hmm? When did anyone ever deny that? Hmm? Show us!

Ake and GfS and others argue that it is the *fault* of gay men, that it is only a problem for gay men, that gay men need to be in some way controlled or punished - not helped or supported. They argue that homosexuality is uniquely harmful.

The point others have been making is that in the wider scheme of things, it is a much bigger problem for heterosexual people. You make a big deal of how HIV is increasing again amongst gay people - you talk about a 74 percent increase over 8 years. You say this to support the bigots. You say increase is important but not the heterosexual increase of 500% over the same period. Absurd double standards. If you're going to support a position in which you don't believe, you could at least be consistent about it.

Ake, it is ALL about education and condom-use. Dr. de Cock said that, and you like his views. All the people who get HIV through sex - the gay ones, the straight ones, the black ones - they all got it because they didn't use a condom and/or didn't use it properly.

Ake, GfS, you want to exact some sort of social control or punishment or enforcement on gay people. Tell us what you mean. Take a room of 1,000 gay people - 960 of whom are not and will never be HIV+. What is your plan for all these people. what should their punishment or peculiar treatment be? Hmm?

I posted links to just a few of the outreach groups working tirelessly within gay communities and to find the hidden closet-cases. If any of you really cared about this issue, you would get your credit cards out and make a donation. Write to your MP to demand more funding. Will you? I doubt it.

Keith, still haven't found a point yet? I never thought you would. Just neutral statistics, eh?

Well, if this debate is now down the rump of Ake, Keith and GfS, then I think the case is closed. We are just going around in circles now.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 06:01 PM

What's up Grit for Brains?

Can't manage a proper link? Then I can't be bothered to give any credence to your posts.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 06:01 PM

Here, Smeds, and Don Firth...just in case electric instruments offend you......you can hear the lyrics better, too!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFwMvlPu4Qw&feature=related

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 05:59 PM

""Worryingly, the global decrease in new infections is not being seen in the UK. Here new diagnoses have trebled in the past ten years. HIV diagnoses among men who have sex with men in the UK rose by 74 per cent between 2000 and 2007. The UK needs to re-prioritise HIV prevention among gay men, otherwise we risk falling further behind.""

So what do we get from this?

Gay men with new HIV infections........Increase between 2000 and 2007 of 74 percent.

Heterosexuals with new UK ACQUIRED HIV infections...Increase between 2000 and 2009 of 500 percent.

N.B. The figures for gay men are total numbers of new diagnoses, without any allowance for infections NOT UK ACQUIRED.

Removing those new infections acquired abroad would obviously reduce the figure, but it doesn't suit the gay bashing tenor of these surveys to bother finding out by how much.

Ake and Co will of course dive in and claim that there are no gay African, Carribean, or other non EU, males in this country.

The comment about the rise in UK acquired heterosexual infections (from infinitessimal to miniscule) is disingenuous in the extreme, since a 74 percent increase has resulted in the current infection of just 4 percent of gay men with HIV.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 05:52 PM

Smedley, I was going to 'copy and paste' as segment from your stupidly childish post:From: Smedley Date: 28 Jan 10 - 03:03 AM ..but it was ALL so stupid and immature, I just posted the date so you could review it yourself,(and anyone else), just to PROVE what I've been saying about how immature, and ridiculous you sound! Was your Dad one of those 'homophobe' heterosexuals you alluded to?

In the meantime, here for your enjoyment of irritation,(whatever)!
Listen to the lyrics!!!

Don, you might enjoy this too, though you might find a deeper meaning to it!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZRFjddiNoo

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 05:33 PM

Those damn facts just keep getting in the way, don't they???

Russian Roulette anyone??..Two bullets or one?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 04:26 PM

Don Wyz, I do not disagree with it.
It is just that a five fold increase only takes the rate from infinitesimal to miniscule.
Meanwhile, from the latest evidence, the rate for MSMs, especially the young, already very high, is taking off again.

I have taken on board your comment about sources in the other thread.
"A so-called fact from a source or origin with a serious axe to grind, a fixed political bias, or a somewhat iffy mental capacity"

I will not rely on the British Medical Journal again!
This is from Pink News.http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/11/24/new-hiv-infections-down-globally-but-rising-for-gay-men-in-the-uk/

The UNAIDS 2009 AIDS Epidemic Update, released today, shows that new HIV infections are down by 17 per cent over the last eight years around the world.

However, the number of new diagnoses of gay men in Europe has risen with gay men in the UK being particularly affected.

In the last eight years, there has been a 74 per cent rise in diagnoses of infections of gay men in the UK. This is the percentage of new diagnoses, rather than the rate of new infections.

In Europe, the figure rose by 39 per cent between 2003 and 2006.

The report said: "A re-emergence of the epidemic among men who have sex with men is now clearly apparent in many high-income countries."

It added that this rise was "tied to an increase in sexual risk behaviours".

The report also warned that there had been "sharp increases" of the number of gay men in high-income European countries becoming infected with other sexually transmitted infections.

Despite the rise in new HIV diagnoses in Europe and North America, rates of infection decreased globally.

Since 2001, when the United Nations Declaration of Commitment on HIV/AIDS was signed, the number of new infections in sub-Saharan Africa is approximately 15 per cent lower. In East Asia new HIV infections declined by nearly 25 per cent and in South and South East Asia by 10 per cent in the same time period.

"Worryingly, the global decrease in new infections is not being seen in the UK. Here new diagnoses have trebled in the past ten years. HIV diagnoses among men who have sex with men in the UK rose by 74 per cent between 2000 and 2007. The UK needs to re-prioritise HIV prevention among gay men, otherwise we risk falling further behind."
The UNAIDS 2009 AIDS Epidemic Update, released today, shows that new HIV infections are down by 17 per cent over the last eight years around the world.

However, the number of new diagnoses of gay men in Europe has risen with gay men in the UK being particularly affected.

In the last eight years, there has been a 74 per cent rise in diagnoses of infections of gay men in the UK. This is the percentage of new diagnoses, rather than the rate of new infections.

In Europe, the figure rose by 39 per cent between 2003 and 2006.

The report said: "A re-emergence of the epidemic among men who have sex with men is now clearly apparent in many high-income countries."

It added that this rise was "tied to an increase in sexual risk behaviours".

The report also warned that there had been "sharp increases" of the number of gay men in high-income European countries becoming infected with other sexually transmitted infections.

Despite the rise in new HIV diagnoses in Europe and North America, rates of infection decreased globally.

Since 2001, when the United Nations Declaration of Commitment on HIV/AIDS was signed, the number of new infections in sub-Saharan Africa is approximately 15 per cent lower. In East Asia new HIV infections declined by nearly 25 per cent and in South and South East Asia by 10 per cent in the same time period.

"Worryingly, the global decrease in new infections is not being seen in the UK. Here new diagnoses have trebled in the past ten years. HIV diagnoses among men who have sex with men in the UK rose by 74 per cent between 2000 and 2007. The UK needs to re-prioritise HIV prevention among gay men, otherwise we risk falling further behind."

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 04:25 PM

As you know Don, I dont usually respond to your abusive nonesense, but this is beyond suffering

"We're not using figures to dehumanise people Smedley. We are pointing out trends which the other side don't seem capable of grasping, in the vain hope that they might realise that they are indeed barking up the wrong bloody tree, and increasing the risk to people, by focussing on gay males and ignoring the rising threat to the rest."

You Lox and Royston(Smedley must have seen the light), are the ones who seem unable to grasp what the figures show.
I repeat how high must the homosexual infection figure,or African immigrant figures go before we are compelled to take some action?

Or do we just sit on our arses handing out condoms that nobody seems to want?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 03:48 PM

""You wanted to show that in UK,heterosexual infection had overtaken MSM infection.
It had not.
Only if you counted infections that happened in subsaharan Africa.""

No! He didn't, and it's a bit bloody stupid to claim he did when he has just copy/pasted his original post (28th Jan 2010 0829hrs), which does not contain any such statement.

What Royston said was that HIV was on its way to becoming a hetero problem in the UK.

In view of the fivefold increase in UK ACQUIRED NEW INFECTIONS between 2000 and 2009, what is your basis for disagreeing with that?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 03:35 PM

""Oh goody. More percentages. I really must stop contributing to this thread, as I tend to keep forgetting that it's no longer about people.""

We're not using figures to dehumanise people Smedley. We are pointing out trends which the other side don't seem capable of grasping, in the vain hope that they might realise that they are indeed barking up the wrong bloody tree, and increasing the risk to people, by focussing on gay males and ignoring the rising threat to the rest.

If Ake had his way, and locked up all the male gays tomorrow, would HIV die out in the UK?.....NO! It bloody well would not.

It might empty the prisons in time though, which those three would probably consider a result.

Don T

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 03:33 PM

Ake: and I refuse to believe that heteros will ever reach the percentage rates of infection that are occuring among the homosexual community

Go to Africa. Africa proves that heterosexual practice can be lethal where HIV is concerned. More dangerous than for gay men.

The bad-luck reasons for the relatively high - historically - incidence rate amongst gay ment in "the west" have been explained patiently to you many times.

96% of gay men do not and will not contract HIV, so homosexual practice is overwhelmingly HIV-safe.

Regardless of where they caught it, more straight people are diagnosed with HIV in this country than are gay men.

You see, Keith. Next time you pitch in, ask yourself "what is the point?" If all you ever do is reinforce people like Ake and GfS in their dangerous and ignorant prejudices.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 02:58 PM

Royston, I dont really think I want your "respect" after all the nasty names you have been calling me and others here whom I KNOW to be honourable a fair minded.

When I called you a cheat, it was partially because you failed to mention that a large percentage of the hetero hiv figures you quoted were aquired in Africa, but more importantly you were citing real numbers which were absolutely meaningless in the context we were discussing.....the ratio of homo/ hetero new infections.

The fact that homos are more than 50 times more likely to become infected, points to a serious problem for homosexuality and a serious problem for those who wish to present homosexual practice as safe and healthy.
All the statistics I have presented show MsM as the most risky demographic.....and I refuse to believe that heteros will ever reach the percentage rates of infection that are occuring among the homosexual community

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 02:47 PM

Glad you liked the post.
I would have accepted that from the start and I believe that has been my case all along.
We could so easily have been in agreement.
I already had a shrewd idea how much respect you have for me.
I can read between the lines.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 02:33 PM

Your suggested post is a good one, Keith. It is a shame that you chose not to make until after all of other attempts to support the bigots had been knocked down.

Now we know the answer to that question "Keith, what is your point?". The answer appears to be that you may have no point whatever; save for a desire to support bigoted and harmful people and opinions. You may not even believe the things that you say, or the positions you support. As I said, Keith, I can have more respect for Ake than for you at times.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 12:11 PM

What did you think of my suggested post?
Was it not more informative than anything you have put up on the subject?
And only 2 lines.
And no one insulted.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 11:55 AM

You are right Royston.
If you combine UK and Africa together, AIDS overwhelming effects heterosexuals.
Most people would find it more useful to know what is going on with infections here.
Most people would have though that that was what you were telling us.
But they would be wrong.