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BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Bill D Date: 15 Dec 09 - 02:12 PM I wouldn't refresh this without a good reason... from New Scientist on same sex relationships in nature. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: gnu Date: 14 Dec 09 - 05:30 PM Don... I take severe umbridge at your post. It's "gnu" with a small "g". Better than a large mind, tho, eh? Gosh... it's hard to imagine a mind so large that you can't fit logic, reason, compassion, tolerence... into it. Kinda sad innit? Of course, I have always said I dislike gay parades and gay "Days" and such. I mean, no need for a public display of ANY sexuality promotion. And no need to proffer ANY such to children in any way, which is what happens eventually from same. But, as for the subject, if I had to endorse a death penalty choice, I would choose intolerant assholes rather than gays. I mean, if somebody had to go, clean up the intelligence gene pool first eh? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Wesley S Date: 14 Dec 09 - 04:42 PM According to the movie "Milk" - and who could doubt Hollywood for historical accuracy - the mayor was shot first and Harvey was shot soon afterward. If I'm remembering correctly. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Amos Date: 14 Dec 09 - 04:37 PM Ah, thanks, I misremembered. He was shot the same day as the Mayor, wasn't he? A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Wesley S Date: 14 Dec 09 - 04:11 PM Amos - Harvey Milk wasn't the mayor of San Francisco. He was a city councilman or something similar. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Lox Date: 14 Dec 09 - 02:37 PM Fascist! ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 14 Dec 09 - 02:25 PM ""Now... is there any chance that this thread can fall off the board? HINT HINT HINT?"" Careful now Gnu, or you'll find youself accused of attempting to stifle the right of free speech of those who are trying to demote a whole group of human beings to second class citizen status. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Amos Date: 14 Dec 09 - 12:53 PM Wesley: I think Harvey Milk still owns the record on this. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: MGM·Lion Date: 14 Dec 09 - 02:41 AM Of course - sorry, forgot that connotation of 'troll'. Silly me. Thank you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don Firth Date: 13 Dec 09 - 10:40 PM Referring to the trolls that are inhabiting this thead. The Billy-goats Gruff are the multitudes of rational folks who have the temerity to disagree with them. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: MGM·Lion Date: 13 Dec 09 - 09:37 PM Yes, thanks Don. Got the troll OK. Can't say I see exactly where u are coming from or what connexion is from Billy-goats Gruff to the thread — but the clicky worked OK... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don Firth Date: 13 Dec 09 - 08:55 PM Dunno, MtheGM, other than he doesn't like billy goats clip-clopping over his bridge. The link works fine for me. Here's another link to the same guy: CLICKY. I hope this works for you. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: MGM·Lion Date: 13 Dec 09 - 08:39 PM Attempt to follow that link, Don, produced a pop-up forbiddingly headed FORBIDDEN! What can be with 'THIS GUY', I ask myself. The imagination boggles... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don Firth Date: 13 Dec 09 - 08:30 PM I'm familiar with the species. THIS GUY is holed up just a few miles from where I live. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: akenaton Date: 13 Dec 09 - 07:24 PM Grey mare eh?....Oh well it IS cattle country! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Wesley S Date: 13 Dec 09 - 07:12 PM FYI - Houston Texas has just become one of the largest cities to elect a gay mayor. MSNBC Story |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Lox Date: 13 Dec 09 - 05:40 PM No homophobe would admit to being anything less then a confident healthy fearless red blooded uber-hetero. Therefore to admit to having any kind of fear of Gay people would be a sign of weakness and impossible as their impression of gay people is that they are weak, effeminate and puny and certainly nothing to be feared. "I ain't afraid of gays" etc so the same fear that makes them homophobic also prevents them from admitting that that is what they are. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: gnu Date: 13 Dec 09 - 04:33 PM Now... is there any chance that this thread can fall off the board? HINT HINT HINT? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: gnu Date: 13 Dec 09 - 04:21 PM ake... odd for you to leave yourself that wide open. But, anything for a joke is okay in my books. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: akenaton Date: 13 Dec 09 - 04:11 PM Analised homophobia......sounds a bit dodgy tae me! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: gnu Date: 13 Dec 09 - 02:58 PM Good point, K. Most definitions begin with "irrational fear". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: kendall Date: 13 Dec 09 - 01:48 PM I wonder how many homophobes have actually analyzed the word Homophobia? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Jim Carroll Date: 13 Dec 09 - 09:54 AM "you have it right.....you're confused." Not really - it only appears so to those who are incapable of thinking out of their box maybe. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: GUEST,mauvepink Date: 13 Dec 09 - 07:47 AM Don... Two really good articles and discussions. Both are interesting in the extreme and I like the connection brought in with other animals as well as the twin studies. The part about female sexuality was interesting in the first article "What Makes People Gay?". the comment "More surprising was just how different the story with women turned out to be. Most women, whether they identified as straight, lesbian, or bisexual, were significantly aroused by straight, gay, and lesbian sex" bujt no conclusion as to bisexuality being the 'norm' for females is made. It does, however, explain why women on average do not tend to stress sexuality as much as males. Women appear to have a far more fluid approach to sexuality and it is not as great a part in their make up as maybe in men. My own ideas on this has to do with women, on an evolutionary scale, having had to be far more social with each other than men have had to be on average. "On average" is a very important statement as there will always be extremes so we have to talk about 'the most in general. Most of my female friends show a fluidity of thought on sexual matters and, to that extent, it may also be why women happily share their experiences with their partners so freely with other friends. It's merely just another subject to chat about. They really don't stress about it. Men, while they will talk to each other about sex rarely share their own sexual actions with their partners. All this said, I guess this is more to do with gender differences rather than sexuality and people being hanged for their gayness so I will try not to stray so far from the topic. What does stand out is the gender bias in research. Very few studies on female sexuality and whole rafts of them on men. This whole fascination over men and trying to explain their sexuality seems to have gripped science as much as it has other areas of human thinking/activity. In the end I do believe science will find the whole answer and, as long as that is not used to discriminate then it is all well and good. Thanks for pointing the articles out! mp |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don Firth Date: 12 Dec 09 - 03:36 PM GfS, It isn't that my posts haven't been highly intelligent and perceptive, it's that you didn't like them. Too painfully true for you to handle. Do try to keep the personal invective down. It really says more about you than it does about me. I'm curious to read your answers to Amos's questions. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Amos Date: 12 Dec 09 - 03:15 PM GfS: 1. Do you believe that all homosexuality is based on an individual decision? If not, does it come from a genetic quirk? Something else? 2. Do you believe lesbians and male homosexuals are suffering from the same syndrome, from the same cause? 3. Do you think homosexuality is evil? 4. Do you think homosexuality is reversible or curable, in all cases or most cases? If so what do you think such a reversal requires? A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 12 Dec 09 - 03:10 PM Don, FINALLY you have posted a reasonably intelligent post! I'll comment on it more, when I have just a bit more time, but at present, I had to put off a couple of things to read it. As soon as I'm free, I'll go though a couple of things with you on it. I may surprise you....(again?) Regards, GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don Firth Date: 12 Dec 09 - 02:49 PM Another excellent article. Very informative. FYI-2 Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don Firth Date: 12 Dec 09 - 02:30 PM Long article, but well worth it. FYI Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: gnu Date: 12 Dec 09 - 01:15 PM I see the feeding frenzy continues. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 12 Dec 09 - 12:50 PM Jim:"Or are we confusing hatred with contempt? Jim Carrol" Who knows? but one thing for sure..you have it right.....you're confused. Perhaps, the speck is in your own eye! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Jim Carroll Date: 12 Dec 09 - 10:26 AM Or are we confusing hatred with contempt? Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Jim Carroll Date: 12 Dec 09 - 10:14 AM "By the way, since when, on what post did I ever indicate I hated them???" Something about hitting people with purses wasn't too bad a hint I'd say, wouldn't you? Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: frogprince Date: 12 Dec 09 - 10:06 AM "homosexual men were no more aroused by pictures of boys than landscapes (Freund, 1963)." Golly, that goes to show you that a homosexual male is so messed up that if he can't get a little boy he's apt to hump a tree! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: GUEST,mauvepink Date: 12 Dec 09 - 08:04 AM I have found the following link on the internet that is more than interesting. Paedophilia and Homosexuality points to the observation generally that homosexual males are no more likely to target boys than anyone other sexuality. Homosexuality and homosexual pedophilia are very different things. The figures saying that homsosexual males make up a high percentage of paedophiles has come about erroneously in many 'studies' as the observation of them being homosexual at all is has been a self assessment. I suspect many paedophiles, given the choice of calling themselves homsosexual or an outright paedophile, will call themselves homosexual. That does not mean they are homsosexual. Studies on the whole subject are rare and, personally, if the actual ethics of carrying out such a study could be sorted, I think it could finally dispell the mythical connection between normally orientated homosexual males and paedohilia. The figures are also messed up by the amount of men out there who are married to women but predate on young men/boys. If you have the time try and read the whole peice as there are lots of anomalies but the important thing that comes across - that is pointed to - is that the vast majority of male homosexuals are just that. Male homosexual and not paedoophiles. It's another myth that needs getting rid of. Lest we forget, the whole abuse thing is not just about sexual abuse either in my eyes. Sexual or physical abuse are often one and the same to a victim. Abuse is abuse. Thousands of girls have been abused in care too, which is seldom mentioned, and suffered under draconic rules and punishments. Abuse, paedohilia and rape are all centred on power and control. The sexual aspects of some of these crimes are just one part of the whole thing. It's not always about sex but it is always about power. On to families. Sadly, one has to remember that most abused children actually know their abuser. I think statistically the figures suggest that a child is far more at risk from someone within their family than they are from a stranger. That also goes for domestic abuse (naturally) and abuse of older people. There is nothing liberal in these figures. What is called for is a major study into true abuse of all kinds and, far from just pointing fingers, it should be done to highlight those at risk and those most likely to commit the offence. Just appointing scapegoats is not an option and never should be. mp |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Lox Date: 12 Dec 09 - 05:46 AM And you point was tat one of your issues with homosexuals is that they have a natural propensity to abuse children. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Lox Date: 12 Dec 09 - 05:35 AM "You would indeed Smedley, I am disgusted by the abuse of children of either gender. But we are at the moment, discussing homosexuality." Oh - but Ake, it was you who brought Child abuse into this discussion not Smedley. Ducking out again I see. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 12 Dec 09 - 04:01 AM Don:"Function: noun Etymology: French, hypocrite, bigot Date: 1660 : a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance." On that subject you ARE an expert. By the way, since when, on what post did I ever indicate I hated them??? I think you've misunderstood me, ever since the Prop 8 thread. Just because I have an understanding on what homosexuality is, and what it is not, doesn't mean I have any hatred at all, of them... I just think the people making it something that it isn't, and turning into something its not, are far more obnoxious...and then give lame, semi-literate diatribes, with no supporting FACTS, never studied, about human behavior, and use that to justify their own guilt and delusions....That's what you've mistaken for 'hatred' of them! But then, it's all about you. Most of the 'learned opinions' that have come at me, have come from completely uneducated ideologues, whose closest they've got to a classroom, is when they were trying to play at the 'Stu U', for tips, while trying to figure out the secret chord progression of Neil Young! .......then come on here, and try too hard, to be tragically hip! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don Firth Date: 12 Dec 09 - 12:43 AM Just casually passing through and thought I'd drop this off. big•otprej•u•dice Function: noun Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Latin praejudicium previous judgment, damage, from prae- + judicium judgment Date: 13th century 1 : injury or damage resulting from some judgment or action of another in disregard of one's rights; especially : detriment to one's legal rights or claims. 2 a (1) : preconceived judgment or opinion (2) : an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge b : an instance of such judgment or opinion c : an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics.Carry on. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 11 Dec 09 - 11:38 PM Nope. But this has nothing to do with the price of eggs! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Amos Date: 11 Dec 09 - 11:17 PM The truth is that sexual orientation is a complex condition and is not an individual choice (except in the purest most metaphysical sense that existence itself is). The truth is that marriage is a social convention built solely on agreements made among humans. The truth is that hatred of humans by category is a toxic behavior pattern. The truth is that civil justice works when it is uniformly applied, and when not, not. Any other questions? A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 11 Dec 09 - 11:04 PM Sorry, forgot to sign in The brilliant Don T writes:"Significant omission there GfS. You just couldn't bring yourself to add the other side of the coin, could you? So I'll do it for you NOT ALL HOMOSEXUALS ARE PAEDOPHILES!! GfS:Never said or implied they were. That's just your preconceived notion of what you (almost) think I said, or mean. Don:"YOUR agenda is very plain to see, and with every twist of the truth you make your bigotry more obvious." GfS:Truth?? You actually know the truth?..Ok, what is it? Don:"God help the unfortunates who find themselves being counselled by possibly the most vicious, bigotted, hateful, and incompetent carer in the business." GfS: Oh here comes the bigoted bullshit again, something that is thrown around when you have no FACTS to back it up! Being gay is not behavioural and categorising them in this way is HOMOPHOBIC, and YOU should be ashamed of yourself. GfS:You must have missed my post, about the lesbians, and the child custody battle..scroll down its there, complete with link to the article. OH, and the rest of your blather about it not being behavioral..PROVE your statement, or shut up! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Jim Carroll Date: 11 Dec 09 - 09:11 PM "but I feel the family structure and the production of offspring has a profound effect on the sexual behaviour of heters......in general terms." Not sure what 'heters' is, but surely it depends on the family. Would that include the father that was found guilty of raping his daughter for six years that was reported in today's paper, not an uncommon occurrence in some families apparently? "homos have thrown away natures rule book" Can I buy a copy of this on Amazon - or are you selling them from home? Another step out of the closet - keep going and you'll get there. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Amos Date: 11 Dec 09 - 07:37 PM How, then, do you account for the frequent cases of homosexual conduct amongst animals in nature, Ake? All this, though is besides the point. I agree completely with you that HIV should be eradicated. I agree that completely with you the abuse of others, especially the young, is abhorrent. I agree completely with you that homosexual is not personally attractive to either of us. I also submit, however, that homosexuality is not sufficient grounds to deny an individual the right to marry as he pleases and that the same legal coverage afforded to heterosexual marriages should be extended to all humans regardless of sexual preference. This however does not shelter anyone from the consequences of crimes, which are covered under criminal justice. What we are talking about here is the curtailment of civil rights under the law. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: akenaton Date: 11 Dec 09 - 05:56 PM You would indeed Smedley, I am disgusted by the abuse of children of either gender. But we are at the moment, discussing homosexuality. I also think that human "morality" is a very thin veneer indeed Heteros and homos abuse children, but I feel the family structure and the production of offspring has a profound effect on the sexual behaviour of heters......in general terms. As I said on another thread, it appears that homos have thrown away natures rule book....and there is a rule book no mmatter how often it is denied; unwritten, but still valid after ??million years. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Smedley Date: 11 Dec 09 - 05:11 PM Feel free to debate it, Ake. Some 9not all) of your posts strike me as exemplifying the point I made, namely that the abuse of boys is an issue that causes greater alarm. Would I be wrong in thinking that you thought this ? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 11 Dec 09 - 05:07 PM ""Of course not all pedophiles are homosexual, but that does not excuse those who are. Likewise, those who are heterosexual pedophiles, are, indeed, child rapists. This is not rocket science, rocket men!"" Significant omission there GfS. You just couldn't bring yourself to add the other side of the coin, could you? So I'll do it for you NOT ALL HOMOSEXUALS ARE PAEDOPHILES!!! YOUR agenda is very plain to see, and with every twist of the truth you make your bigotry more obvious. God help the unfortunates who find themselves being counselled by possibly the most vicious, bigotted, hateful, and incompetent carer in the business. Don T |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: akenaton Date: 11 Dec 09 - 05:05 PM Interesting ,if highly debatable Smedley. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Date: 11 Dec 09 - 05:05 PM Smedley - yes good point. The 'seduction' of an underage girl, seems to attract less condemnation that the 'sodomy' of an underage boy. While the deflowering of virgin girls ("jail-bait", "nearly-legal", "Fruit-vert") has ever been casually perceived as a desirable & understandable manly enterprise, the sodomising of young males has been deemed quite the opposite. In fact, once at least, there was the presumption that somehow male rape (man or boy) was far more disturbing for a male, than it could possibly be for a female (as women like men, so being raped by one would be nearly like having sex). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Smedley Date: 11 Dec 09 - 04:56 PM Child abuse cases where boys are victims frequently get more coverage in the media (certainly in Britain) than cases where the victims are girls. It is difficult to avoid the conclusion that male victims are seen as more newsworthy because in a patriarchal culture like ours, boys are more highly valued, so their abuse is more shocking. In other words, even in an area such as child abuse, sexism rules the roost. |
