Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don Firth Date: 16 Feb 10 - 09:05 PM GfS: "Donny, Posting one of your earlier posts from the 'Prop 6' thread is silly! Why don't you post the one you posted about the study in Massachusetts, that discarded all the other studies, and excuses, that you posted before??" Only my mother called me "Donny," and that was many decades ago. You'd look pretty silly in a dress and apron, GfS. No, I'll take that back. You might look quite chic. Now—the reason I'm back is to ask you just which post about what study in Massachusetts that I allegedly posted in the Prop 8 thread (not "Prop 6")?? I've done a "Find" search on the Prop 8 thread, and the only mentions I find of Massachusetts is that Massachusetts is one of the first three states (along with Connecticut and Iowa) to legally recognize gay marriage. I had to search the Prop 8 thread to find the post where you revealed that most interesting story about your father (which you apparently forgot about and tried to claim was my story), so here's your chance to return the favor. Get off your butt and find the post you're talking about, or just admit that you are a hopeless Nebbish. The problem that almost invariably trips up liars, whether pathological liars or those who just lie as a hobby, is that they invariably forget what all lies they've told and sooner or later (usually sooner) they start telling conflicting stories (as you did) and wind up looking like total idiots. That's one of the side effects of eating a lot of lead paint chips when you're a toddler. Don Firth P. S. I don't think he'll be back, folks. Once again, he's running toward the horizon with his ass on fire. |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: gnu Date: 16 Feb 10 - 05:35 PM "wind-up artist" = troll Been that way for, oh, 1770 posts? |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don Firth Date: 16 Feb 10 - 03:20 PM GUEST from SLIME— No, I'll leave that alone! I'm not going to sink to your level. I don't think I could get that low anyway. It was not my father who sired six children and then "decided" to become a homosexual. My father sired three children—two girls (both of whom became national figure skating champions, by the way) and me. And he did not become a homosexual, nor have any of my relatives. GfS, I was quoting from what YOU posted on the Prop 8 thread, on the 6th of May, 2009, at 12:38 a.m., in which you said: By the way, all of those who think that I have no experience with this, and that I'm just spouting from no experience with this issue, you should know that my father CHOSE a homosexual lifestyle after he had 6 children with my mother.YOU said that, GfS. Not me. YOU!! GfS, you are either a wind-up artist of the most contemptible sort, or you have completely lost touch with the real world and are running in circles spouting gibberish. In either case, you twist what people say all out of shape, either because you have the mind of a snake, or you are totally incapable of understanding simple concepts. There is no point in arguing with you any further. KB in Iowa, Ebbie, and Frogprince are right. GET HELP!! Don Firth |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: frogprince Date: 16 Feb 10 - 01:09 PM It's been apparent for some time that what we have in Gfs is one of two things, or some combination of both. Either he(?) has unraveled mentally to the point of losing all grasp on reality, or he(?) has such a vile, perverse sense of "humor" that he regulary takes great pleasure in spouting absolutely anything in the hopes of making other people miserable. I suggest that we've gone well past the point at which we should have switched into ignore mode. |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Ebbie Date: 16 Feb 10 - 12:52 PM I am rapidly feeling less sorry for you, GfS. You very clearly said in the Prop 8 thread in May 2009: "By the way, all of those who think that I have no experience with this, and that I'm just spouting from no experience with this issue, you should know that my father CHOSE a homosexual lifestyle after he had 6 children with my mother." ******************* "Not to get to personal, but to squash any type of statement about my father already being gay, I'll explain this. He was molested when he was a child by his father and uncle. He learned how to deal with the shame and pain of this act by storing it inside and never talking about it. This, undoubtedly, led to prolonged psychological effects that plagued him and eventually chose him to choose his lifestyle." You were NOT postulating on anyone else's experience, you wrote in the first person. If you cannot see that, I think that you deserve no more attention from anybody. |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: KB in Iowa Date: 16 Feb 10 - 12:49 PM Donny, Posting one of your earlier posts from the 'Prop 6' thread is silly! Why don't you post the one you posted about the study in Massachusetts, that discarded all the other studies, and excuses, that you posted before?? As for your father, being molested, having six kids, then turning homosexual....maybe he should have tried the counseling, that you seem to deny the rights of homosexuals to be able to get?...even heterosexual rape victims get counseling. Your 'rap' still falls down! GfS Don was quoting you there GfS, not talking abut his own experience. |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 16 Feb 10 - 12:24 PM Donny, Posting one of your earlier posts from the 'Prop 6' thread is silly! Why don't you post the one you posted about the study in Massachusetts, that discarded all the other studies, and excuses, that you posted before?? As for your father, being molested, having six kids, then turning homosexual....maybe he should have tried the counseling, that you seem to deny the rights of homosexuals to be able to get?...even heterosexual rape victims get counseling. Your 'rap' still falls down! GfS |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Ebbie Date: 16 Feb 10 - 01:14 AM Just to make absolutely SURE that Don Firth wasn't lying through his fingers I went to the Prop 8 thread, did a search and GUESS WHAT, GfS! He told the truth! YOU lied! Suddenly I feel sorry for you. |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don Firth Date: 16 Feb 10 - 12:04 AM GfS, since you are thicker than jug of molasses that's been buried in a glacier in the Antarctic for a couple of centuries, let me clarify what I mean when I said, "I was told about these two, whom I had met on a couple of occasions, by people who knew them very well. . . ." The occasions upon which I met them (one man and one woman) were at a number of congregational meetings of Central Lutheran Church, when Central was in the process of deciding to adopt the "Affirmation of Welcome" statement, which includes welcoming people of different sexual orientations as well as those of different races, nationalities, and economic classes. These two were not members of Central. But they came to the meetings to argue against including the "gender orientation" clause in the Affirmation. Apparently, this was what they did: go to different churches in the process of adopting the "Affirmation of Welcome" as written and try to talk them out of accepting the gender orientation clause. Since these were meetings of the Central Lutheral Church congregation, and these two people were not members of the church, the fact that they were being so vocal about Central's policies raise a lot of questions as to who they were and why were they there, trying to influence the policies of a church to which they did not belong. Their claim was that they had been homosexual, but when their church discovered this, their church insisted that they submit themselves to both psychological and religious counseling and, with the help of the church, be "cured of their perversion." They claimed that they had, indeed, been cured, and that churches in general, rather than welcoming "perverts," should deny them admission until they have been cured. Very "Christian" of them! I talked with them quite a bit and I made my own evaluation. Then, I (and others in the congregation) talked to several other people who had been friends and acquaintances of these two since well before they had "taken the cure." And they described how these two, and their lives, had changed—not, everyone agreed, for the better. Where they had been leading reasonably happy lives up until their church (quite conservative and leaning toward fundamentalism) learned of their private lives and jumped on their cases. We were told that after being talked into "taking the cure," they had become two obviously unhappy and angry people. Their main method of renouncing their "perversion" was to give up sex entirely. No, I do not know them personally, but I had a very good chance to assess their personalities and attitudes face to face. Not people I would care to associate with. Too hostile. Not to me in particular, but to life in general. I thought I would explain that further, GfS, before you go off on another toot and make up yet another whole fantasy novel about me, as you seem to have a penchant for doing. Don Firth |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don Firth Date: 15 Feb 10 - 06:09 PM Well, well, well, GfS! That was quite a little temper tantrum! As I have already written (definitely establishing that you read very selectively, assuming that you read at all), that I was told about these two, whom I had met on a couple of occasions, by people who knew them very well and had known them for a long time. [Shall I retype that in all caps, or can you actually read it as is? If so, read it again!] Cured? No flippin' way! From a post of mine on the Prop 8 thread: Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage BanGfS, the scientific information that I have been posting regarding genetic research on sexual orientation is the latest, and it is sound. You just don't like it, hence your tendency to foam at the mouth. And I have been honest enough to acknowledge that the research into the genetic basis of same-sex orientation is ongoing and so far not totally conclusive, although all indications are that this is the case. You, on the other hand, are so prejudiced and closed minded that you keep saying, flatly and absolutely, that sexual orientation is strictly a matter of choice—nothing more than a matter of a person flipping a coin. My "bullshit politics," as you so rationally and calmly put it, is concerned with the civil rights of a minority—and to my opposition to the matter indicated by the title of this thread. Not just the Ugandans refusal to grant the civil rights of this minority, but thier intention to pass laws mandating that homosexuals be imprisioned and executed! And this is being promulgated and supported by at least one American fundamentalist religious group, "The Family," using spurious information published by Richard Cohen, the snake-oil saleman of whom you think so highly! Lest we forget, Adolf Hitler ALSO advocated the execution of homosexuals. As to the matter of your father. One this thread, you said that your father died of a heart attack. Perhaps so. But this is the post on the Prop 8 thread about your father. It's a few paragraphs down. GfS in italics. My comments in brackets. Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban Further. There is this tidbit also posted by GfS on the Prop 8 thread: To answer your question, I'm a musician, sound engineer, screenplay author, and composed a soundtrack for a film, and when I originally stumbled upon this forum, which was by sheer happenstance, I found it extremely stimulating, and interesting. Being as I also am a marriage and family counselor, I was drawn into some of the discussions, with a certain passion, if you will. My post explains my reasons for remaining a 'Guest' In addition, I have personal information on here, that is highly confidential. Hope that answers your question. Re-read my last post, if you need clarification. Thank you.You know, GfS, you remind me a lot of a recurring character on the Canadian comedy, "The Red Green Show. His name was Hap Shaughnessy. The big difference between you and Hap is that Hap is funny! Considering the childish temper tantrums, especially evident in your recent posts, you appear to have the emotional maturity of a four-year-old. Rather than giving counseling (if, indeed, you actually are a counselor), you appear to be drastically in need of competent counseling. I really don't think it would be possible to have a mature and productive discussion with you until such time as you get your act together, start respecting the truth instead of clinging desperately to the way you would like things to be, and stop screaming and whining when it's pointed out to you that they are not. Don Firth |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 15 Feb 10 - 03:34 AM Don False: "Yes, GfS, I met two homosexuals who insisted that they had been "cured." But it was plainly obvious to those who knew them much better than I did that the form their "cure" had taken was that they were completely abstaining from sexual activity of any kind, and that they were showing signs of anxiety, depression, and hostility. I was told that they had been reasonably happy....." You're so misleading, and not even good at it! "You were told..."..by who? Did you talk to them? NO! I would think that as much as you are a champion of crackpot politicized 'science' that you'd check it out yourself....NOOO! You also lied and waged a campaign against me and my posts, based on a lie! The lie being homosexuals were 'genetic' and couldn't change over..and the whole time you knew OF two, but just never checked out the story yourself....BECAUSE IT WAS CONTRARY TO YOUR BULLSHIT POLITICS! Which by the way, is, was, or never will be for the interest of individuals..just the masses, who are deceived at distance, ..so you're oblivious to any of their real needs! "As to the rest of your most recent post, once again I invite people here who have the stomach for it to go back over our posts in both threads and see for themselves who said what." PLEASE DO!...and you will plainly see that you twist words, quote things out of context, accuse people of bigotry, and hatred, misrepresent what I've said..then 'comment' on your misrepresentation! You've LIED too many times, and now this time it's out front. You espoused crap, that you knew wasn't even true!....Go back,..read it for yourself! I'm not wasting my time trying to find solutions for lies. You and your whole trip is bogus...and its all there for anyone to check it out! Every 'theory', every excuse, every contention has been completely blown out of the water, and you've very adequately discredited yourself. Remember, you knew of two the whole time!...but never asked them anything!...and certainly not lifting a fucking finger to offer anything for their well-being...because you, like you 'cause' don't give a shit about people! If you had been honest, we could have had some GREAT stuff going on. Now as it is, everyone got to witness a phony activist being exposed! See YA! GfS |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Royston Date: 14 Feb 10 - 09:33 AM Keith: "I hate your dishonesty" That's a bit rich coming from you. de Cock was REPORTED as saying that there was no point teaching HIV prevention in Schools in London. He didn't make any comment about education or outreach anywhere else. So when the correction was made: "In all settings, a supportive environment is required, free from stigma and discrimination, legal barriers or other obstacles that prevent access to services. AIDS awareness campaigns and school-based efforts are essential to promote sexual and reproductive health, ensuring young people have the knowledge and ability to protect themselves against sexually transmitted diseases, and teenage pregnancy." What other sort of education and outreach related comment was he correcting - other than the one about London? Hmm? You're either so thick that you can't read. Or you're a liar. You clear that one up for us, why don't you? My assertions about effective prevention measures are stated by de Cock as being the correct ones IN ALL SETTINGS You mocked me. You were, and are, the fool. |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 14 Feb 10 - 08:24 AM ""The new UK infections are within those communities."" Now that is a barefaced LIE! You cannot possibly know what proportion of new infections are within which communities, and to claim that there are no infections of heterosexuals other than those of Africans is a)bloody nonsense, and b)a cynical, and dishonest attempt to apportion blame for the whole to African immigrants. With each post your agenda becomes more clear. Royston has you pegged! Don T. |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: GUEST,keith Date: 12 Feb 10 - 06:10 PM last 2 posts were me. |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: GUEST Date: 12 Feb 10 - 06:08 PM Here is the correction again. Ther is no change in the statements about developed countries. We wish to clarify misinterpretations concerning WHO and UNAIDS' positions on the status of the AIDS epidemic in recent media articles. The story in the Independent on Sunday titled: "Threat of world AIDS pandemic among heterosexuals is over, report admits" contained a few seriously misleading statements that have led to inferences and conclusions that bear no relation to the highly complex realities of the HIV epidemic. First and foremost, the global HIV epidemic is by no means over. At the end of 2007, an estimated 33.2 million people were living with HIV. Some 2.5 million people became newly infected that year, and 2.1 million died of AIDS. AIDS remains the leading cause of death in Africa. Worldwide, HIV is still largely driven by heterosexual transmission. The majority of new infections in sub-Saharan Africa occur through heterosexual transmission. We have also seen a number of generalized epidemics outside of Africa, such as in Haiti and Papua New Guinea. Heterosexual transmission continues to drive the epidemic among sex workers, their clients, and their clients' partners. In addition, prisoners, injecting drug users, as well as men who have sex with men, may also engage in heterosexual relationships. In sub-Saharan Africa almost 60% of adults living with HIV were women, 48% in the Caribbean. HIV prevention and treatment efforts are showing results. Building on these successes will require improved outreach to populations most at risk with evidence-informed approaches based on local HIV epidemiology — an approach we call "knowing your epidemic." In all settings, a supportive environment is required, free from stigma and discrimination, legal barriers or other obstacles that prevent access to services. AIDS awareness campaigns and school-based efforts are essential to promote sexual and reproductive health, ensuring young people have the knowledge and ability to protect themselves against sexually transmitted diseases, and teenage pregnancy. UNAIDS and WHO remain focused on strengthening monitoring of the epidemic to refine responses further and to recognize changes in transmission patterns should they occur. To recap: AIDS remains the leading infectious disease challenge in global health. To suggest otherwise is irresponsible and misleading. I hate your dishonesty. In the end, no one else is reading any of our shit so I suppose it does not matter. It is all yours for now. |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: GUEST Date: 12 Feb 10 - 06:00 PM How devious to try to change de Cock's opinions to suit yours. He foolishly said no heterosexual infection outside Africa meaning not in developed countries. He should have remembered that other third world countries like Haiti have very similar epidemics. That is what he corrected. Read his correction. He does not correct his statements about the developed countries. If you say that he corrected those statements, that is a lie. |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: GUEST,Keith A Date: 12 Feb 10 - 05:54 PM Don, if you read any of those reports on the Africam communities that I linked to, you would see that the infection is spreading within those new communities. You would see that dangerous patterns of behaviour are being practiced. Massive intervention is going on that will help to bring it down. Mercifully, it is not spreading outside those communities. The new UK infections are within those communities. |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 12 Feb 10 - 05:42 PM ""Yes it is and it is confined to their communities. There is no generalised epidemic. Just the high risk groups."" Pay attention Numbnuts! If it is UK ACQUIRED, they contracted it here. They did NOT bring it with them. It cannot, then, be the African strain. African immigrants do not necessarily confine their activities to their own closed communities. I worked for a disabled charity, which employed dozens of African carers, and they were out in the mainstream of social interaction. Your blythe assumption that, because something hasn't happened yet, it can't happen, is mind blowing in its naive stupidity. Don T. |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Royston Date: 12 Feb 10 - 01:10 PM de Cock was also reported as saying that there had been no generalised epidemics outside sub-saharan Africa and that there would probably not be one anywhere else. You liked that a lot He then corrected that by saying actually there have been two other such epidemics and he made clear that preventing more of them required exactly the interventions that I described - including in this country - and for which you first mocked me and then said 'Honestly, Royston, I don't know' The edinburgh study, echoed my comments and de Cock's comments about transmission networks and their roles in defining who gets HIV and who doesn't, behaviours being - as they are - very similar. You mocked me for those assertions. The BMJ article asserts as I did, that as the number of carrier's here grows, so does the risk to all. You mocked me for asserting that. The BMJ article mirror's my view and de Cock's view that early and effective education and intervention is needed to avert a much bigger crisis in our country. For being so wrong about the role of behaviour in differentiating affected groups, about the risks to individuals in this country, about the measures needed to protect ourselves and care for our communities, about 'responsibility' for disease, for making overtly racist and homophobic statements (your 'behaviours' outburst), for supporting bigots and mocking people, not just me, that clearly always had a much better understanding of this subject than you, I would expect at least a little humility. Have a nice week off. |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Royston Date: 12 Feb 10 - 12:38 PM de Cock, by issuing corrections, tells us that he did not say those things or that he was misrepresented. Or that he subsequently thought he was wrong to say those things. In any event, I was right, you swallowed fallacy and laughed at me. Who's the fool? |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 12 Feb 10 - 11:10 AM I really do not want "a further discussion." I only wanted to establish that there is no sign of AIDS breaking into the general population. First you thought it was, then yesterday you changed your mind and then changed it back again. De Cock. "Reported as saying" in capitals. Is that you suggesting he did not say those things? Say what you mean. I laughed last night at your about turns and posturing, but never about the value of education, which I am part of. I have told you I don't agree with stigmatising. You talk about me knowing what I say is wrong and being a liar. I have said nothing that is wrong and do not lie. That casual false indictment makes me bloody angry. You never give examples, because you can not. The BMJ piece just said what I have been saying. What is not to like? The Edinburgh research. Strains have evolved slightly differently in different places. The strain we in the West have mostly experienced. Heteros have been exposed and a few have caught it, but no epidemic. The African one has now arrived with our new communities, and local heteros will be exposed to it, but it is less virulent than the one that has already failed. I am taking a week off. Good luck with it. |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Royston Date: 12 Feb 10 - 09:21 AM I'm stopping by here every now and again. In the event that Keith stops banging on about all the things on which we agree - mostly African straight HIV, probably won't be a generalised academic, etc etc etc and addresses some of the more recent issues, then there might be a further discussion to be had. We could try and draw him back to how he leapt around like an angry chimp laughing at me for advocating general and school-based education in spite of what de Cock was REPORTED AS SAYING. As he was reported in the article to have said - in summary - that general education and school-based education in the UK would not be beneficial, and was not reported making a comment anywhere about education in other places; so it follows that the CORRECTION which said "In all settings..." such programs and removal of stigma and other barriers are essential to HIV prevention, asserts his advocacy for these measures in the UK. You see, Keith, I will continue to read these stories and then apply my knowledge, intellect and experience to them and I will come to my own conclusions. You are too witless to do anything other than lap up the things that you like the sound of. Either that or you are a liar - you are intelligent enough to know that what you say is wrong, yet you say it anyway. On the BMJ piece, we all know what we agree on, Keith, no point you reposting it. What about the assertions that you don't like, but the BMJ make nonetheless? On the scientific paper from Edinburgh, I don't claim to understand the genetic heritage of HIV subtypes well enough to comment other than to say that the abstract and summaries are clear in talking about the operation of sexual networks as a driving factor in the disease and also variant subtypes in different networks of transmission. It is just an example of the complexity of the epidemic that you could have found, had you chosen to do. There are now so many points on the table over the last few days that you are ignoring in favour of repeating all the same stuff on which we have largely agreed. Until you calm down and get up to date, there isn't a lot of point to this. |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 12 Feb 10 - 03:02 AM From your new strain piece. Transmission in heterosexuals also progressed at a much slower rate than in homosexuals, the study finds, with only 2% occurring within the first 6 months of infection (25% in homosexuals). (Why might that be Royston?) While in the 1990s genetic characterisation of the virus in heterosexuals showed a predominance of subtype B - the most common form in the Americas, Australia, Europe, Japan, and Thailand - more recent studies find that there has been a shift. Most HIV cases these days in the heterosexual risk group in the UK are of the non-B subtype, 'indicating viruses originating among immigrants from sub-Saharan Africa,' the scientists state. |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 12 Feb 10 - 02:55 AM Quotes from your BMJ piece. Although the number of people becoming infected with HIV through heterosexual intercourse in the United Kingdom is rising steadily, most of the overall rise in HIV diagnoses among heterosexuals is among people who originate from and were infected abroad, mainly in Africa. Numbers of HIV infections acquired through heterosexual intercourse in the United Kingdom have risen in recent years but continue to represent a small proportion (< 10%) of all HIV infections diagnosed in heterosexuals in England, Wales, and Northern Ireland each year |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 12 Feb 10 - 01:22 AM Not one post stood up to a moment's scrutiny. The people who know tell us it is not going to break out of the high risk groups and cause a general epidemic. You can not deny that. You were wrong and you are still wrong. |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 12 Feb 10 - 01:19 AM The 500% increase is in UK acquired HIV. Therefor it is not as a result of African import. Yes it is and it is confined to their communities. There is no generalised epidemic. Just the high risk groups. |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 12 Feb 10 - 01:17 AM Here is the cut and paste Don. Kevin de Cock, the head of the WHO's department of HIV/Aids said there will be no generalised epidemic of Aids in the heterosexual population outside Africa. Dr De Cock, an epidemiologist who has spent much of his career leading the battle against the disease, said understanding of the threat posed by the virus had changed. Whereas once it was seen as a risk to populations everywhere, it was now recognised that, outside sub-Saharan Africa, it was confined to high-risk groups including men who have sex with men, injecting drug users, and sex workers and their clients. Dr De Cock said: "It is very unlikely there will be a heterosexual epidemic in other countries. |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 12 Feb 10 - 01:14 AM The Independent correction by de Cock does not retract a single thing that he said about AIDS in the developed world. He was just worried that people might infer that the global epidemic was over. Don T, he made both those statements. I was not being inconsistent at all. |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 12 Feb 10 - 01:10 AM "And anyway, it is not for me or you to discover why HIV is not more prevalent in UK heterosexual populations." So you could not come up with a politically correct reason, and try to avoid the question. Your BMJ piece just goes over the same ground again. The hetero epidemic is a black African epidemic. That is what it says. |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 12 Feb 10 - 01:05 AM Not one valid point in all those posts. I am going to enjoy knocking each one down. Bear with me, it will need a few posts. Inorder ot posting. "So it only a matter of time before HIV in the UK is mainly, numerically, a heterosexual phenomenon." I showed days ago that at this rate the growth will make it a rare disease in heteros for well over a hundred years. "By the way, that academic paper about the different strains - 2 minutes googling on a blackberry. How or why did you miss it. You are one that claims to have scoured the earth for facts and truth. I never made any such claim. I prefer issues." I did not miss it. Hetero AIDS here is overwhelmingly confined to black African Communities. The report acknowledges that. And they have brought with them the sub Saharan strain. And that is what your researches found. An African strain in African people, less virulent because transmission is so much easier there. |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 11 Feb 10 - 07:12 PM ""Errrhhhh.... Nobody is listening. Why don't you just ask Keith for his home number so you can ring him and save bandwidth! You will never accept that anal sex between two men, and the passage of semen/blood that results causes Aids will you? Drone on baby!!"" Barmy indeed. Anal sex between men does NOT, and never did, cause HIV/AIDS. It merely transmits it, when one of the men is infected. The idea that anal gay sex causes it was discredited years ago, and only ignorant, bigotted, twerps like your good self are stupid enough to still believe it. Why don't you educate yourself, then rejoin the discussion when you know what you're talking about. By the looks of things, it will still be going strong. Don T. |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 11 Feb 10 - 06:54 PM ""Kevin de Cock, the head of the WHO's department of HIV/Aids said there will be no generalised epidemic of Aids in the heterosexual population outside Africa."" ""Dr De Cock said: "It is very unlikely there will be a heterosexual epidemic in other countries."" The above are two sentences from the same post, by Keith. So Keith, which is it? You can't even quote him consistently in the course of typing a two minute post. And we should take what you post as factual because............? Don T. |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 11 Feb 10 - 06:45 PM ""Now we see that most of those are accounted for by a newly arrived high risk group. They caused your dogleg up turn."" NO! THEY DID NOT! The 500% increase is in UK acquired HIV. Therefor it is not as a result of African import. If those people acquired it here, it matters not where they came from, because they didn't initiate it, they caught it from contact with indigenous carriers. Don T. |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Royston Date: 11 Feb 10 - 06:40 PM I really am going to stop now. |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Royston Date: 11 Feb 10 - 06:35 PM In fact, I am filing you in the same bin as Ake and Paco. |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Royston Date: 11 Feb 10 - 06:34 PM So the experts do in fact agree with everything I said about outreach, removing stigma, caring. In particluar they do agree with my assertion that schools-based, generalised education is very important. You laughed at me and derided me for that. I stuck to my guns, I was right. I didn't even need to go googling for the truth (but I've found the activity quite compelling this evening.) You are just not very bright are you, Keith? |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Royston Date: 11 Feb 10 - 06:30 PM Keith, hang on to your breeches, you'll love this. Correction to AIDS Story in The Independent, 8 June 2008 New York, 11 June 2008 http://data.unaids.org/pub/PressStatement/2008/20080611_notetomedia_en.pdf We wish to clarify misinterpretations concerning WHO and UNAIDS' positions on the status of the AIDS epidemic in recent media articles. The story in the Independent on Sunday titled: "Threat of world AIDS pandemic among heterosexuals is over, report admits" contained a few seriously misleading statements that have led to inferences and conclusions that bear no relation to the highly complex realities of the HIV epidemic. First and foremost, the global HIV epidemic is by no means over. At the end of 2007, an estimated 33.2 million people were living with HIV. Some 2.5 million people became newly infected that year, and 2.1 million died of AIDS. AIDS remains the leading cause of death in Africa. Worldwide, HIV is still largely driven by heterosexual transmission. The majority of new infections in sub-Saharan Africa occur through heterosexual transmission. We have also seen a number of generalized epidemics outside of Africa, such as in Haiti and Papua New Guinea. Heterosexual transmission continues to drive the epidemic among sex workers, their clients, and their clients' partners. In addition, prisoners, injecting drug users, as well as men who have sex with men, may also engage in heterosexual relationships. In sub-Saharan Africa almost 60% of adults living with HIV were women, 48% in the Caribbean. HIV prevention and treatment efforts are showing results. Building on these successes will require improved outreach to populations most at risk with evidence-informed approaches based on local HIV epidemiology — an approach we call "knowing your epidemic." In all settings, a supportive environment is required, free from stigma and discrimination, legal barriers or other obstacles that prevent access to services. AIDS awareness campaigns and school-based efforts are essential to promote sexual and reproductive health, ensuring young people have the knowledge and ability to protect themselves against sexually transmitted diseases, and teenage pregnancy. UNAIDS and WHO remain focused on strengthening monitoring of the epidemic to refine responses further and to recognize changes in transmission patterns should they occur. To recap: AIDS remains the leading infectious disease challenge in global health. To suggest otherwise is irresponsible and misleading. Dr Kevin M. De Cock Director Department of HIV/AIDS WHO, World Health Organization Dr Paul De Lay Director Department of Evidence, Monitoring and Policy UNAIDS, Joint UN Programme on HIV/AIDS |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Royston Date: 11 Feb 10 - 06:02 PM Crikey Keith, You will come to regret asking me to google stuff. in the last 10 minutes (including reading a few long articles, I found this from the BMJ "The number of people becoming infected with HIV through heterosexual intercourse in the United Kingdom is rising steadily. As the number of heterosexuals living with HIV (diagnosed and undiagnosed) in the United Kingdom grows, the likelihood of heterosexual transmission within the country will increase, particularly among ethnic minorities." Which confirms what I say about the rise of HIV that is coming for heterosexual people in this country notwithstanding the truth - that remains - that we will probably never have an African-scale problem. How did your detailed research miss that Keith? http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/330/7503/1303 |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Royston Date: 11 Feb 10 - 05:40 PM And anyway, it is not for me or you to discover why HIV is not more prevalent in UK heterosexual populations. It is enough to have proven that the low prevalence is not primarily or mainly a result of their sexual behaviour. That is the issue in debate here. The prevalence of STI's in straight people shows appalling sexual hygiene and behaviour. De Cock reckons that networks are a more important epidemiological factor, the scientists at Edinburgh with their peer-reveiwed paper also assert this. They also find a different, slower in transmission, strain of the virus. It's all out there for you Keith, you just have to have an intelligent, open and enquiring mind. But you will run away from these issues. Ho hum. We tried. |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Royston Date: 11 Feb 10 - 05:29 PM Keep crowing Keith, you just look more and more stupid. There will probably not be an African style epidemic here. Only 4% of gay men are HIV+ - that is tiny compared to Africa. If, every year, more straight people are diagnosed than are gay men, and if that continues, then how could HIV fail to become - in time - a disease that mainly, numerically, affects straight people. That is very simple, all the statements are compatible. You are degenerating rapidly, but that's fine. You know, it just occurred to me that if you claim to be on an impartial quest for factual knowledge, how is it that after all your efforts you fail to find the academics that find against your ideas? By the way, that academic paper about the different strains - 2 minutes googling on a blackberry. How or why did you miss it. You are one that claims to have scoured the earth for facts and truth. I never made any such claim. I prefer issues. If you have anything new to say on today's points then I will respond. |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 11 Feb 10 - 05:16 PM "So it only a matter of time before HIV in the UK is mainly, numerically, a heterosexual phenomenon." So, you are reinstating the opinion you withdrew a few hours ago. EXCELLENT! Now again you are expressing and asserting beliefs diametrically opposed the the people who are supposed to be world experts. OUTSTANDING ROYSTON! You should contact de Cock at once. He will be so gratefull. He probably has no one down at the WHO who knows as much about AIDS as you do. You have now made a complete arse of yourself, and with only minimal help from me. I am so enjoying this. Now we have the results of 10 days frantic googling. A different strain of the virus. You still have not told us why the main strain could not cause a heterosexual epidemic Royston. They have been exposed to it for 40 years. It can not be differences in behaviour because that would be ideologically unacceptable. The virus must know that obviously! And the different strain is the one found in subsaharan Africa! Who would have thought it! How ever did it get here and who ever might be carrying it? I do not go in for abuse. I will just remind you of some epithets you have used recently. Dim. Idiot. Shit For Brains. |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Paco O'Barmy Date: 11 Feb 10 - 04:58 PM Errrhhhh.... Nobody is listening. Why don't you just ask Keith for his home number so you can ring him and save bandwidth! You will never accept that anal sex between two men, and the passage of semen/blood that results causes Aids will you? Drone on baby!! |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Royston Date: 11 Feb 10 - 04:03 PM And here is just one scientific explanation for the slow spread of HIV in straight people in the UK. They are lucky enough that the principal strain of HIV sub-type doing the rounds in straight circles just happens to be slower in transmission. It's easy to find this information if you try. If you choose to try. If you are not a bigoted fool. http://cordis.europa.eu/fetch?CALLER=NEWSLINK_EN_C&RCN=31290&ACTION=D There seems to be quite a good discussion about networks and clustering of HIV - a lot of the things I have been saying. |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Royston Date: 11 Feb 10 - 03:56 PM Watch Keith run from the current discussion back to picking away at old news and numbers. Laughable. What a one-trick pony. At present, more straight people are newly diagnosed each year than gay people - regardles of where they got it, they are here. So it only a matter of time before HIV in the UK is mainly, numerically, a heterosexual phenomenon. Now you just play away Keith. You're doing a grand job. |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 11 Feb 10 - 03:46 PM Another couple of years and UK Caucasian Heterosexuals will have caught up nicely. 14th Jan |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 11 Feb 10 - 03:42 PM Another. The numbers show it is on the way to being a mostly heterosexual problem in this country. |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 11 Feb 10 - 03:40 PM Another 11th jan post you may want to withdraw Royston. And while we are being candid, let's just clear up this whole 'gay plague' thing. As a percentage of the whole group, gay men suffer disproportionately with HIV infection. The numbers show that this will soon be a historical irrelevance. |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 11 Feb 10 - 03:36 PM Are you running away from this Royston? I ask you again. What are the (ideologically sound) reasons why there has been no heterosexual epidemic despite 40 years exposure via bisexuals, needle sharers and infected blood transfusions? |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Royston Date: 11 Feb 10 - 03:08 PM But then, Keith, we know what you are and why you choose to carry on this way. |
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Royston Date: 11 Feb 10 - 03:06 PM It's all in black and white, Keith. From me and de Cock. I can't explain it any more clearly and you are the only one having difficulty with it. Save for Ake, who will have difficulty with anything and everything. |