BS: £800 fine for low school attendance

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 05 Mar 10 - 06:39 PM

The poor abused children still slip through the register. That's the whole point!

You do not need a sledgehammer to crack a nut!!!!!

We have an ENTIRE SOCIAL WORKERS NETWORK which costs probably millions of pounds, and STILL these children slip through!

Open your eyes and see that these registers are not needed and that they are used for some pretty dodgy information gathering, as well as being wholly unreliable when it comes to information being protected!

This means that information on YOUR child may be passed around to any Tom, Dick or Harry. And you will never have access to the information that is written down about your child.

That may satisfy you.

It ANGERS me.


THERE are shits out there whose children are state educated, and they still do terrible things to their children.

OPEN YOUR EYES

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Emma B
Date: 05 Mar 10 - 06:39 PM

Thank you for posting that extract from a Daily Mail article taken up - well no surprise there - by

American Renaissance (abbreviated AR or AmRen)

- a monthly racialist magazine published by the New Century Foundation.

The magazine's founder Jared Taylor has been called a white separatist by the Southern Poverty Law Cente

says it all really !

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 05 Mar 10 - 06:42 PM

Nope, Miss B was a very vindictive little person, small minded, totally brain-washed by the state.

The reason her mouth was watering was that she'd be scoring lots of brownie points for putting your Jimmy on the witness stand.

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 05 Mar 10 - 06:44 PM

"(Miss 'Archer' dashes off to become Head of Edukashon Otherwise and take over the world) ;0)"

Yes, that's right Lizzie. My entire career - nay, my life - is one giant exercise in Getting At You. I hate to remind you, but contrary to the fantasy world in your head, I couldn't give a gnat's fart for your peculiar interests, and home education is of no interest to me, beyond the fact that it is criminally unregulated and does many of the children who have to suffer its vagaries a tremendous disservice. IMHO, of course. I work in schools - and we know you wouldn't be caught anywhere near one of those, Lizzie. Thank god for small mercies.

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Emma B
Date: 05 Mar 10 - 06:45 PM

You know i'm just about cheesed off with ad hominen attacks from someone who justifies her opinions with quotes from a magazine that claims that non-white minorities pose a demographic threat to the United States and other Western nations and furthermore 'argues that the United States' major social problems are due to racial diversity and a weakening of the country's white racial heritage by increased non-white immigration.'

You pays your money you takes your pick folks!

Your choice

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Emma B
Date: 05 Mar 10 - 08:55 PM

'Miss B was a very vindictive little person, small minded, totally brain-washed by the state.'

- and we are to assume that this lame excuse for humour and 'random' choice of initial does not bear "Any Resemblance to Persons Living or Dead" or mudcatter and is just coincidence?

Yeah!

Meanwhile long standing members of the forum are 'not allowed to address' this sort of ****

just 'perfick' !

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Mar 10 - 01:54 AM

Sit on the floor, cross-legged.

Place the tips of the middle fingers against the tips of the thumbs whilst resting the backs of the hands on the knees.

Close the eyes.

Repeat after me.......

"Ignore her.......ignore her.......ignore her........"

Continue repetitions of mantra until the irresistable urge to respond to a blindingly-obvious policy of deliberate provocation disappears completely and permanently.

Therein lies The Path To True Bliss, which most of us have already followed.

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: GUEST,Mike Rogers
Date: 06 Mar 10 - 03:53 AM

...or, as Dick Gaughan used to say "Do not feed the troll".

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Paul Burke
Date: 06 Mar 10 - 04:41 AM

We have an ENTIRE SOCIAL WORKERS NETWORK which costs probably millions of pounds, and STILL these children slip through!


(1) It's generally called Social Services.
(2) It costs billions, not millions.
(3) Even so, there's only so much they can do. If social workers intervene to take kids into care, the redtop screamers are all like Meddling Do-Gooders Took Away My Little Angel.
(3) The only way to catch ALL abuse of children (sexual, physical, mental, and McDonalds) would be to have 24/7 surveillance on all human activities. That would probably cost a tad more, but I'm sure you think it's worth it.

BTW if it costs £800 for low school attendance, how much do they fine you for high school?

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 06 Mar 10 - 02:39 PM

From Emma:

"Thank you for posting that extract from a Daily Mail article taken up - well no surprise there - by

American Renaissance (abbreviated AR or AmRen)

- a monthly racialist magazine published by the New Century Foundation.

The magazine's founder Jared Taylor has been called a white separatist by the Southern Poverty Law Cente

says it all really !"




No. It merely says I put a link in to a story.

Here is another link:

The same story, from Pink News - Stonewall Publication of the Year 2006/07


Now, on that link they also give mention to The Daily Mail. So, does this mean that I have chosen THAT link purely because it mentions that paper? Does it mean that those who own the site, by allowing those dreaded words 'The Daily Mail' to be in their article, are nothing more than obvious 'right wing, fascist, racist gay people with a hidden agenda? Does it mean that you have decided the same of me, merely because I linked to their site?

To me, it merely means they've printed an article on there because they want to pass the information on, in my opinion, of course.

But then, I don't have hidden agendas myself, of trying to convince people that someone is racist, when they are not.



From Emma:

"- and we are to assume that this lame excuse for humour and 'random' choice of initial does not bear "Any Resemblance to Persons Living or Dead" or mudcatter and is just coincidence?

Yeah!

Meanwhile long standing members of the forum are 'not allowed to address' this sort of ****

just 'perfick' !"


Well, I've been here over 6 years now, so I guess that classifies me as a long standing member of this forum, Emma....and I feel that I'm addressing the sort of **** that's thrown at me by the same folks, pretty darn 'perfickly'.....

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Emma B
Date: 06 Mar 10 - 02:52 PM

here we go again -

'But then, I don't have hidden agendas myself, of trying to convince people that someone is racist, when they are not.'

I observed that you justified your opinions by quoting from a white supremist magazine - now just stop these ad hominen arguments and your blatent provocations because I'm just tired of your need to provoke and provoke somebody until you can squeal 'Victim' as I'm sure many others are too.

Having said that, I really will take Backwoodman's advice and leave the games and disturbing creepy tales, which are just barely disguised personal attacks, to those who have nothing better to do with their life.

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 06 Mar 10 - 03:01 PM

"Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: John MacKenzie - PM
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 09:09 AM

Do you know, I recall someone getting very self righteous and indignant about a previous Mudcatter whom they perceived as being persecuted, and 'picked on' unfairly, by other Mudcatters.
Much the same thing appears to be happening again,here.
This person felt so strongly about it, that they left Mudcat."

Allegedly

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: jeddy
Date: 06 Mar 10 - 08:53 PM

elsie has a very cruel and warped side and sounds like she identifies with MISS B.   this is worrying to me.

i feel dirty just reading it.

"alledegedly"? i left too, some things are worth coming back for!

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 02:45 AM

Although there is a risk that they become less so.

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 05:10 AM

jeddy...I was 'Elsie' on the BBC board once...and the woman who at that time was deeply vindictive to me as 'Lizzie' became soooooo nice to me, even though I was writing about Show of Hands at the time.
She fell over herself to be sweet about them to 'Elsie'. She had no idea it was me, you see.

Of course, when I told her, publicly, who Elsie was (LC being me, of course) she went nuts, because she'd been shown up as specifically targetting me as 'Lizzie', because, you see, if I wrote about SoH as Lizzie, she'd tear my posts to shreds and insult SoH left, right and centre.

Strange, huh?

Just goes to show that those with agendas sometimes let themselves down horrendously.

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 06:14 AM

"I observed that you justified your opinions by quoting from a white supremist magazine - now just stop these ad hominen arguments and your blatent provocations because I'm just tired of your need to provoke and provoke somebody until you can squeal 'Victim' as I'm sure many others are too."



Miss B was in a foul mood that morning. She'd had to walk to school, as the bus was running late, and she'd had to share the pavement with the Horrible Little Sods that she spent her working day with. God, how she hated children! They were disobedient little brats who needed disciplining at all times.

Miss B had them sussed, especially those with 'secret agendas', the budding racists, facsists, mysoginists-in-waiting...Oh yes, she could sniff 'em out at a hundred paces!

She got into her classroom and sat down at her desk. There was still 30 minutes before school started, 30 more minutes of peace before The Little Sods came in from the playground, although WHY they needed a 'play' ground she had no idea...because they weren't here to PLAY, they were here to be EDUKATED, damn it!

She sighed, feeling a little stressed...and then, her eyes rested on her Precious Pile of Resplendant Registers. How she loved them! Her hand reached out for the newest addition, which was shining on the top of the pile, touched by the sunlight. She looked at the sparkling letters that screamed out her most favourite title yet...

THE ***HATE*** REGISTER

Miss B smiled, smiled for the first time that morning...as she picked it up.

She Loved the HATE one best!

She turned to Jimmy James's page, which was getting quite full already. Soon she'd need another page for him. Her smile got even wider as she recalled how Little Jimmy had tried to explain to her that he didn't even know what a Lesbian was, how he'd just heard it on Eastenders and liked the sound of the word.

Miss B knew, you see.   Miss B knew all about Ulterior Motives. She knew that Jimmy James knew *EXACTLY* what he was doing when he used that word, and she knew he'd used it to cause maximum hurt and damage. Oh yes, she knew alright.

Miss Sweetheart, the new 'I **Love** Children' Drippy Teacher who'd just been assigned to the school for a year, had tried to make her see differntly. Bloody Sweetheart had said that Jimmy James was a dear child, one who she found to be helpful and kind, one who loved nature, had a wonderful imagination. HA! The woman was mad! She was a drivelling do-gooder who had no idea about children at ALL!

No, Miss B would make certain that the REAL James James would be exposed for all to see. She would ensure that his pages inside her favourite register remained full over the years, and that they would follow him for the rest of his nasty, sexist days..

One day, one day, they'd thank her. One day they'd see the child as she did, see all children as she did.

10 minutes left before the bell went.


Miss B picked up her other registers...

The Answering Back Register
The Disinterested Register
The Sensitive Child Register
The Stupid Child Register
The Child Who Refuses to Learn Our Way Register

Her hand found her next favourite one...almost as good as new Hate Register.....

The Truancy Register

Oh, this was a goodie too. Her smile lit up her face...Jimmy James was in this one also. Better than that though, Jimmy's mother and father were in it as well.   She opened it up, counted how many days school he'd missed and the light that shone from her now widely exposed teeth lit up her classroom.

Jimmy James had been away for nearly 5 days this month! That meant he only had one more absence to be recorded and she'd have him! She'd have the whole James family! Yes! She'd be able to start the ball rolling for the £800 fine to be charged to his Mum and Dad.

Oh! Miss B was feeling Almost Orgasmic!

Suddenly, she couldn't WAIT for the children to arrive...and a minute later, the bell went off.

The sound of children playing outside stopped abruptly. Good, she was pleased about that, it was a sound she so hated having to listen to...she liked the sound of shoes on floors, tip tapping their way to classrooms and desks...and that's what she began to hear...as one by one the children filed into class and sat at their desks.

Miss B picked up The Daily Doings Register, opened it up, and began to call out the names..

"Annie Andrews?"
'Here, Miss'

"Bertie Brussels?"
'Yes, Miss'

"Dolores McDumpling?"
'Aye, Miss'

"Dolores, do not speak to me in that ridiculous accent! Speak PROPERLY!"
'Aye, Miss'

"Fenella Fumbleton?"
'Wha'ever, Miss'

"Fenella!"
'Am I bovvered, Miss?'

Miss B reached for The Bloody Disobedient Register and put Fenella's name inside it..

"Jimmy James?"
'                '

"*Jimmy JAMES?"
'                     '


"JIMMY JAMES?"
'                            '


Miss B removed her glasses, and looked up at the class. Jimmy's desk was empty.   

The smile on her face sent shudders round the room, yes, even Fenella started to quake...

"Has anyone seen Jimmy James?" she asked....but the room remained silent, the children bowed their heads...


Miss B place The Truancy Register on top of The Daily Doings one, and started to scribble inside....

Then, she told her class to get their books out and read Chapters 1 to 7, whilst she dashed to the Headmaster's Office to set £800 worth of Misery into Motion...




Down in the woods, Jimmy was playing with frogs in a little pond, watching the tadpoles starting to hatch out...He was fascinated. After a while, he lay on his back, looked up at blue sky, the fluffy white clouds....started making pictures out of them....A little later he went looking for different sorts of trees. His Dad had taught him how their leaves told you what they were, their shape too. Then he sat quiet, just listening to the birds singing, realised they had different voices, different songs...Jimmy breathed in the air and he felt so good, so FREE!

He hated being cooped up in school all day long, hated having to study from books, do loads of writing. He hated Miss B too.   He didn't want to hate her, because his Mum had told him that Hate was a bad thing to have inside you, but she made him angry. She wouldn't believe anything he said, made him feel bad about himself and tried to get others to see him that way too.

Even at six years old he knew something was wrong.

On his way to school that morning, he'd just reached a point of not wanting to go through the gates, ever again. He wasn't wanted in that school. He couldn't learn the things he loved, there was no time to sit and stare, to let your mind wander. Jimmy knew that somehow, freedom to think about thousands of different things was very important when you were young.

And suddenly the words of a song his Mum loved came to him..and he started singing...

"We don't need no Edukashun
We don't need no thought control
No dark sarcasm in the classroom
Teacher leave them kids alone
Hey, teacher! Leave them kids alone!...."

Jimmy didn't quite understand what sarcasm meant, just like he didn't understand what Lesbian or Gay meant, nor millions of other words, but he knew what he felt inside and right that moment, he felt fear...
So he turned around, just as he had done on 5 other days that month, and he went to where he felt happy, to the woods, to nature, to freedom....


Meanwhile, back at the Edukashun Ranch, Miss B had reached the Headmaster's door....She knocked and entered a little too fast.

Mr. Caneinhand was watching a video with Miss Sweetheart, one that she'd brought in to try to turn things around in this dictatorial place, because Miss Sweetheart was very worried about some of the techers in this school....

Mr. Caneinhand listened to Miss B for a moment, but just after the words "We HAVE him, Headmaster! We HAVE him!" he beckoned for her to sit down, turning the TV screen around so that she could watch.

"Miss Sweetheart, would you run the video again from the beginning, please?"

"Of course, Headmanster" Miss Sweetheart replied...

"Miss B, watch this for a moment, then tell me what you think."

And Miss B watched, silently, as her world began to implode

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Emma B
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 06:42 AM

I found the posts of 05 Mar 10 - 06:25 PM and 05 Mar 10 - 06:42 PM very disquieting too.

Not, in fact, because 'Miss B' was quite obviously a barely disguised attack upon myself but because of the disturbed nature and the unrestrained spite of the content which I found distinctly creepy.

It did appear to be a classic example of psychological projection   that occurs when a person's own unacceptable or threatening feelings are repressed and then attributed to someone else.

This mechanism enables the mind to avoid the discomfort of consciously admitting personal faults by keeping those feelings unconscious, redirecting their libidinal satisfaction by attaching, or "projecting," those same faults onto another.


Some information on the song While Gamekeepers lie sleeping on Reinhard Zierke's (Mostly) English Folk Music Website
(supporting Folk against Fascism)

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Emma B
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 06:48 AM

LOL - there's another lollipop for guessing who 'Miss Sweetheart' is

Wierder and weirder, to paraphrase Alice's comments in Wonderland!

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 07:33 AM

Miss Sweetheart ain't me, Clutterbuck...she's a relative of Miss Honey, from Roald Dahl's 'Matilda'.



"This mechanism enables the mind to avoid the discomfort of consciously admitting personal faults by keeping those feelings unconscious, redirecting their libidinal satisfaction by attaching, or "projecting," those same faults onto another."

Blimey, I never realised you thought my one brain cell was that complicated. 'libidinal' I presume, comes from the The I Know Far More 'Hintelligent' Words Than You Register, right?

Tell me, Emma, why haven't you chosen to comment/judge/damn me on the other link I put it in. The one which told exactly the same story. The one from the Pink News magazine?

To me, you see, it's just another link. I don't check out the backgrounds of people who own sites before I link to them, if they have a story I want to link to...and I'd imagine that loads of other folks don't either (said Jimmy James, in his effort to try to get this woman to understand)

As I recall, you linked to a story in The Daily Mail, relatively recently, saying that you didn't like linking to that paper, but found it the only link that was displaying the story you wanted to highligh.    Do you remember that?

So, how come it's OK for you to link to that paper, but not me, or anyone else...unless of course, like you, they feel they have a right to do so?

I'm just puzzled, that's all.

If you *REALLY* want to know why I linked to that first one, it was simply because it was the second on the google list. The Daily Mail was the first one reporting that story and that site was underneath it. It was extremely late at night and I copied and pasted the link, put it on here, and voila...

It really was THAT simple.   I *am* a simple soul, not pedantic about facts, figures or owners of sites.

But, just like Miss B, you have already written me down in your Hate Register, and set off on your crusade to prove to the world that I really AM the person you KNOW me to be...and that I linked to that site KNOWING it was run by people who'd infuriate you further.

But there's no point in getting you to understand that, 'cos you won't. So you scribble away..and look up sites which apparently now describe my peysonality...but you won't find one that fits, I'm afraid, because I don't think inside your box or anyone else's.   My brain and the single cell which dwells within, is it's own person.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to the woods, like Jimmy, where I can get right away from minds that assume they KNOW how and why other minds think like they do, then demand that ALL minds think as THEY do.


'Jimmy' and I are free people. Born Free to Live Free and Die Free.

And here, whilst I'm away in the woods, is another magazine for you to read, one run by a lovely family who left these shores to live in France and raise their children as they wanted to. Their three children are now all grown up, incredibly intelligent, able to look after themselves, grow their own food, build their own houses, as their father did.   


FREEDOM in education

Think OUTSIDE the Box, Emma...and you will find life takes on very new and wonderful meanings.

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: jeddy
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 07:59 AM

i know who i am talking about when i said elsie.. :)

whats the point of your nasty little stories? i got halfway through the last one before i started to feel sick and couldn't finish it.

'miss sweetheart' sounds like she is doing a wonderful job to me. she is teaching children to be independant, to have their own mind. and to rationalise. also teaching them to regconise their self worth.
isn't that something that you were saying we should all be doing not so long back?

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Emma B
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 08:05 AM

'and look up sites which apparently now describe my peysonality'

On the contrary - I studied Psychology at University and I am describing a classic mechanism -

As I've seen quoted elsewhere

'If the shoe fits....'

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Emma B
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 08:26 AM

'Miss Sweetheart ain't me, Clutterbuck...she's a relative of Miss Honey, from Roald Dahl's 'Matilda'.

'Cluuterbuck'! what a quaint slang term for a 'female mammals reproductive organ'; maybe you should just say what you really mean? :)

Strange as it may seem to you, as you have such an intractable opinion of my inability to think outside 'state regulations', I recognize a singularly bad pastiche of a well known chidrens book when I see it and also the use of Joy Adamsons titles for her books describing her experiences in Kenya.

The next 'tale' - from 'The Borrowers'?

Thank you

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: GUEST,Raphie
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 09:46 AM

Poxicat......Errrrrm.....Looks like it!

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 12:14 PM

Joy Adamson, wow, not thought of her in a very long time. Nope, my words on FREE didn't come from Elsa, or Elsie...and it's strange, that if you know Roald Dahl so well you would even consider that Miss Sweetheart was me.

As for jade, yes, Miss Sweetheart IS a Sweetheart, that's the whole point. Because she cares for her children, respects them and sees them as whole people rather than means to fill the tick boxes in Examland, her pupils think the world of her. And she saw the truth in Jimmy James. Miss B saw only what she wanted to see and that was darkness and suspicion.

Clutterbuck was a name that just whizzed into my head, actually. I've never heard of that slang meaning. Mine came from the clutter on my desk, surrounding the screen here. I simply think of things on the spur of the moment, Emma. Surely you must appreciate that my Simple Mind does not contain the capacity to be so devious as you make out? You can't have it both ways.

Poxicat, a very wise and wonderful teacher once said to me that Education starts AFTER students have finally been able to walk away from school, not whilst they're tied into it.

Look up John Gatto and read what he says about education, another teacher of over 30 years standing, an award winning teacher too.

A child can learn far more on a holiday than sat on a chair having to study something they have absolutely no interest in.


If Hate Registers are brought in, then it will be the end of the Education system as we know it, because the whole idea is so utterly sick that it proves what kind of weird individuals are in charge of the nation's children.

Would I EVER let my kids go to be around anyone who had a Hate Register to hand, who recorded what 5 year olds were saying, then kept those words for reference for the next 13 years, to harp back to?   Are you MAD????? Of course I bloody wouldn't! And I'd hope that you wouldn't either, because YOUR children are just as capable of coming out with the new buzz word or summat they heard on TV last night, as anyone else's.

We truly have now reach Orwell's 1984, yet you folks seem happy with that situation.

??????????????????????????


And then, of course, there was The Disappearance Register:

"People simply disappeared, always during the night. Your name was removed from the registers, every record of everything you had ever done was wiped out, your one-time existence was denied and then forgotten. You were abolished, annihilated: vaporized was the usual word."
- George Orwell, 1984, Book 1, Chapter 1


Miss B's favourite quote was this....

"And if all others accepted the lie which the Party imposed—if all records told the same tale—then the lie passed into history and became truth. 'Who controls the past' ran the Party slogan, 'controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.'"
- George Orwell, 1984, Book 1, Chapter 3

...because she knew, that with her Hate Register held firmly in her hand, she controlled not only Jimmy James past, but also his future..


Big Brother is watching not just you, but your children.

Be afraid.
Be very afraid.

Then..send them off to school with their little lunch boxes and pray they don't say anything they shouldn't.

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 12:27 PM

Oh and jade, I suggest you look up the life story of Roald Dahl, because in there you'll find how terribly bullied he was at school, by his teachers.

The day that schools replace their 'soon to have' HATE Registers, with LOVE Registers will be the day that Edukashon System really starts to care about the children within its walls.

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 12:36 PM

Well, all I can say is that my partner is a primary school techer, and so are lots of our friends.
Sorry, No sign of boiling children alive as yet.
C'mon Lizzie...Name me one teacher/head teacher who would have the time to fill in these ledgers of crime that children apparently commit.
They're too busy teaching. I find most of your comments intrinsically insulting to the vast majority of teachers in this country.
By all means, remove your children from the system if you so wish. Your choice. We wouldn't dream of doing such a stupid thing.
I suppose Universities are out of the question too?
Is that why you are a shop assistant?
(Memo to self...Don't get dragged in again....Just don't!)

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 01:16 PM

First of all, Ralph, I don't look down on anyone who works in a shop, or cleans toilets or works on the roads.

Obviously, you do.

Arrogance.


Secondly, if my children wanted to go to university, they are free to do so. My daughter is doing an Open University degree, whilst working at the same time, two jobs, both of which you'd sneer at,I've no doubt, but she sees them as a means to an end. She has no debts and money in the bank.

The vast majority of teachers in this country are snowed under with paperwork already, this will just be yet more. It is insanity.

Home Education is far from 'stupid', but is a very natural way of learning and it's the way people learned for generations, even if they couldn't read or write. They learned to be farmers, farriers, blacksmiths, taught by their fathers, or mothers..or housekeepers..

The human race DID exist long before school was ever invented, you know.

Teachers themselves are turning to Education Otherwise, and other Home Ed groups to try to learn what they do so RIGHT that school is doing so wrong.

I have, and always will, back excellent, brilliant, compassionate, caring teachers. I have no time for the rest. They do far more damage than good and shouldn't even have the job in the first place.

You are free to do whatever you so choose with your children, Ralph. I recognise that fact and would not sneer at you for doing it.


Oh..and for your information, I did used to clean toilets too, when I was in Sidmouth, looking after three little old ladies.

Why am I a shop assitant? Well, because I like working with the public, always have done..and because I have no problem with BEING a shop assistant in the first place, be it for The National Trust, a chemist or who I work for at present. I've been the Harley St. secretary, worked with Princes, Rulers, Princesses, Politiicans, Actors, the Paul McCartneys etc....and I'm quite happy working in a shop.....It also fits in with me being a carer and with home education too.

It's a big sacrifice but one that nearly all Home Ed families feel a worthy thing to do.


And now, I'll leave you to go back to your Edukashon System Sneering Down upon on other people you deem lesser beings than yourself...

Perhaps Emma could find me a more insulting word than Clutterbuck (not that I knew it was an insulting word, much less...a word!)


You really are the most terribly arrogant snob, aintcha!

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Emma B
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 02:14 PM

"Home Education is far from 'stupid', but is a very natural way of learning and it's the way people learned for generations, even if they couldn't read or write. They learned to be farmers, farriers, blacksmiths, taught by their fathers, or mothers..or housekeepers"

What children learned to do the 'natural way' before compulsory education -


No. 116. — Sarah Gooder, aged 8 years.

I'm a trapper in the Gawber pit. It does not tire me, but I have to trap without a light and I'm scared.
I go at four and sometimes half past three in the morning, and come out at five and half past.
I never go to sleep. Sometimes I sing when I've light, but not in the dark; I dare not sing then.
I don't like being in the pit. I am very sleepy when I go sometimes in the morning. I go to Sunday-schools and read Reading made Easy. She knows her letters, and can read little words. They teach me to pray. She repeated the Lord's Prayer, not very perfectly, and ran on with the following addition:--"God bless my father and mother, and sister and brother, uncles and aunts and cousins, and everybody else, and God bless me and make me a good servant. Amen." I have heard tell of Jesus many a time. I don't know why he came on earth, I'm sure, and I don't know why he died, but he had stones for his head to rest on.
I would like to be at school far better than in the pit.

No. 72 — Mary Barrett, aged 14. June 15.

I have worked down in pit five years; father is working in next pit; I have 12 brothers and sisters — all of them but one live at home; they weave, and wind, and hurry, and one is a counter, one of them can read, none of the rest can, or write; they never went to day-school, but three of them go to Sunday-school; I hurry for my brother John, and come down at seven o'clock about; I go up at six, sometimes seven;
I do not like working in pit, but I am obliged to get a living; I work always without stockings, or shoes, or trousers; I wear nothing but my chemise;
I have to go up to the headings with the men; they are all naked there; I am got well used to that, and don't care now much about it; I was afraid at first, and did not like it; they never behave rudely to me;
I cannot read or write.

No. 26. — Patience Kershaw, aged 17, May 15. *

My father has been dead about a year; my mother is living and has ten children, five lads and five lasses; the oldest is about thirty, the youngest is four; three lasses go to mill; all the lads are colliers, two getters and three hurriers; one lives at home and does nothing; mother does nought but look after home.
All my sisters have been hurriers, but three went to the mill. Alice went because her legs swelled from hurrying in cold water when she was hot.

I never went to day-school; I go to Sunday-school, but I cannot read or write; I go to pit at five o'clock in the morning and come out at five in the evening; I get my breakfast of porridge and milk first; I take my dinner with me, a cake, and eat it as I go; I do not stop or rest any time for the purpose; I get nothing else until I get home, and then have potatoes and meat, not every day meat.
I hurry in the clothes I have now got on, trousers and ragged jacket; the bald place upon my head is made by thrusting the corves; my legs have never swelled, but sisters' did when they went to mill; I hurry the corves a mile and more under ground and back; they weigh 300 cwt.; I hurry 11 a-day;
I wear a belt and chain at the workings, to get the corves out; the getters that I work for are naked except their caps; they pull off all their clothes; I see them at work when I go up; sometimes they beat me, if I am not quick enough, with their hands; they strike me upon my back;
the boys take liberties with me sometimes they pull me about; I am the only girl in the pit; there are about 20 boys and 15 men; all the men are naked; I would rather work in mill than in coal-pit.

This girl is an ignorant, filthy, ragged, and deplorable-looking object, and such an one as the uncivilized natives of the prairies would be shocked to look upon.

*
The Unthanks perform The Testimony of Patience Kershaw


Let's all go back to The Good Old Days!

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Emma B
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 02:23 PM

Hurriers coal trappers and thrusters

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 02:56 PM

I knew it was a mistake. But I'll add "being a snob" to all the other insults that come hurtling through the ether.
Getting quite a list now!
Haven't had the gratuitous sarcasm that others have had to put up with....yet. No doubt it will be on it's way.
I'm not going to go down that line of "my job is more miserable than yours"
.....Actually I will.

1972
First job, working as a supplementary benefits officer for the DHSS in London.(known to the Red Tops as "Sex Spies"..which was nice)
I was means testing an unemployed chap. Unhappily he was just over the threshold for benefits.
He went very quiet for a few seconds. I said "sorry, but those are the rules"
He thanked me kindly, walked to the window and stepped out.....4 floors up...
He had two kids.
Satisfied?

Emma has quite lucidly pointed out how children were treated 100 plus years ago.
I know the Patience Kershaw story, and am grateful (if that is the word) to have been pointed towards the other two sad cases. (and I'm sure that there were thousands of others in the 19th century and before.)
Child exploitation was rife before the early 20th century. Women were chattels, until the suffragette movement got them the vote.
And it took until after the second world war to form what is now known as the NHS.
And you squeal about the temerity of teachers to perform their "Duty of Care" by keeping an eye on your little darlings during school hours. And that you can do it better??? With no traiing???
Words fail me.
Lizzie welcome to the 21st century. Take those rose-tinted spectacles off, and see all the gun and knife crime around you. Who caysed it?....Teachers? They haven't got bloody time to show kids how to roll a spliff, take crack cocaine, not to mention the techniques of murdering people.
No, In the main its caused by lack of proper schooling and feckless parents, who either can't, or don't want to care.

I would suggest that you spend a week watching the Jeremy Kyle show. That is broken Britain. Not...Social Services or the Teaching profession.
You profess to want to change the world. Well...Go on then...But leave us decent intelligent people alone and start ranting at ITV (or whatever damn channel it's on)

When you are sitting in your nice warm National Trustshop tommorow, selling mugs to tourists. Remember Patience Kershaw, and the others.

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 03:00 PM

I know it is frowned upon to comment on a certain persons rants but I am now calm enough now to mention some of the personal attacks that have been going on here. Unlike the way I felt a few hours ago. There was a post a few hours back that literaly made me feel sick. It was the vilest and most underhand thing I have seen on any forum ever. I have already PM'd the management about to ask them to delete the posting. I think now though that it would be better to leave it on show to see what depths some people can sink to.

Goodnight and hoping to never have to witness these sick ravings again.

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 03:02 PM

And before you jump down my throat again Lizzie, The sentence that reads

"In the main it's caused by lack of proper schooling and feckless parents"
Please delete "of proper schooling and"
(Wish this site had an edit function)
It should read.
"In the main it's caused by feckless parents"

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 03:06 PM

BTW - I case of doubt the posting I refer to was at 6:14AM.

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: jeddy
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 03:18 PM

agreed david, although after the 'rape' thread it doesn't suprise me, it shocks me!! i thought things couldn't get much worse. just goes to show how off my thinking is.

just so you all know the miss sweetheart i was referring to wasn't the one in the story, i didn't get that far! well.... i read her name once.

i wish there was some things i could let ride when they sicken me
but better me say something than people think i agree by silence.

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 03:34 PM

Agree Jeddy.
Hence my little spat above. Mea Culpa to any who might have beeen offended by my musings (Except one of course!)
I always remember my father explaining to me that the reasons the Nazis did so well, was that nobody stood up to them (either by fear or ignorance).
You could apply that to the BNP too.
Peace Ralph

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 03:34 PM

Sorry, you've lost me. What was 'sickening' about Miss Sweetheart, jeddy?

It's interesting ain't it, because as I write this 'Lark Rise to Candleford' is on the TV. The story this week is about a teacher who left the village school, because of the way the children were acting up. One of the village mothers stepped in to help out. She was ousted, albeit kindly, by another woman from the town, who deemed herself to be 'a teacher'.

Of course, she was total crap at the job and the children gave her a hard time. And so, the mother stepped back in, told the kids stories, educated them in the way she knew they'd understand, brought in the things she knew they'd listen to, want to learn about...

Well, well, well, well, well. :0)


Ralph, you being a former BBC employee, I should imagine you'd want to take this terrible atrocity up with the BBC and producers of Larkrise, because hell's bells, for them to dare to infer that a mere woman of the village...a MOTHER, to boot, would have the brainpower and the children skills to make a better teacher than the 'official' one, needs to be dealt with ASAP.

Sorry, I'm chuckling as I write this. Ha! Lark Rise couldn't have come at a better time, really, could it.

OK, you lot, back to your HATE Registers, where you can fill my words all in and send them to the Headmaster as fast as you can.

;0)

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 03:39 PM

No, Ralph, you were demeaning to people who work in shops.

That is why I called you a snob. You are actually far worse than that, patronising comes to mind.

How DARE you assume that you are better than anyone else? How DARE you assume that those who work in shops are not worthy for you to wipe your boots on?????

I was taught by my Father that I am better that no man and no man is better than me.

I suggest you adhere to his outlook and get off that high horse of yours, before you fall off.



Perhaps, jeddy, you have a story where Miss Sweetheart is really Miss Whiplash?

I know a GREAT song about Miss Whiplash!! Where's ALAN? Someone send for Alan and we'll sing a few rousing choruses together...

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 03:49 PM

Lark Rise is fiction.
My story, which you chose to ignore, was fact.
Have you ever been the unwitting cause of someones suicide because of the circumstances of your job?
Pleased to note that you are chuckling. I'm not.

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 04:02 PM

Excuse me

Aaaaaaaaaagggggggggghhhhh!

Thank you. I feel better now.

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 04:16 PM

David you are a vey naughty boy ! Lol!

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Emma B
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 04:25 PM

'Lark Rise is fiction.'

Well Ralphie as has been mentioned in another thread the TV version certainly is!

However the book of memoirs written by Flora Thompson , a slip of a girl working in a village post office having left school at 13, was not

'In Lark Rise, Over to Candleford and Candleford Green, Flora describes her childhood in the impoverished farming community of Juniper Hill in the remote corner where Oxfordshire, Northamptonshire and Buckinghamshire meet.

She writes with such warmth, freshness and unsentimental clarity that you can smell the bread baking in cottage kitchens and hear the laughter of children playing by the brook.

BUT you can also smell the stink of privies and feel the pangs of near-constant hunger, for this is no misty-eyed account of a lost rural paradise.
Life was harsh, deprived and primitive. It was common for a family of 10 to live in a two-bedroom cottage with no running water

Then, virtually all the men worked on farms for a mere 10 shillings a week, which pauperised them and their families.
They ate what they could grow in gardens and allotments, keeping a pig and hens for meat.

"Poverty's no disgrace, but 'tis a great inconvenience" was a favourite saying that occurs frequently in the book.'

From 'Literary landscapes'

There are more objective archive records from Thatcham, another rural community in Berkshire during the same period as the Larkrise memoirs

The Newbury Weekly News correspondent reported:
"A pitiful wail reaches me from Ashmore Green where many men with large families are out of work, some of whom have been making a tour round (to find work) but without result. Though the people hear of soup being given away in this parish (Thatcham), none of it reaches the hamlet; in fact, a humorist friend says, they are worse off than their neighbours, who get Cold Ash daily; the Ashmore Green people get the cold shoulder, and that over the left", (N.W.N., 8.1.1891). Although a good deal of charity was being distributed, many people still suffered unnoticed through no fault of their own.


Life in Thatcham at the end of the nineteenth-century was still hard, and there were people in the twentieth-century who could look back and remember the village in the 1890s.
One of these people was George Rutter, who wrote a series of articles for the Newbury Weekly News in the 1950s; he remembered the hard times:
"Many are old enough to recall the poverty, distress end malnutrition . . .", he wrote, "so obvious to philanthropic minds that efforts were made to feed and clothe the more necessitous cases. There are memories of soup kitchens and food canteens. . .".

Rutter describes the lives of the inhabitants of the village in the 1890s.
The women of Thatcham ". . . were hard-working and self-sacrificing, knowing how to provide meals for many stomachs with but a few pence, scrupulously clean and never having any leisure from this full-time job of chores, cooking and mending...
The public house was an additional headache to many women of that day. Beer was cheap but even so money for it could be ill-afforded out of the house-hold budget . . .".

For others life was even harder: "There was also a weekly queue in the Broadway, rather a sad one, a gathering of the old and poor, who waited outside the registrar-cum-relieving officer's home on Friday mornings, in all weathers, for the weekly dole of a shilling and perhaps an order for bread".

Extracted from Thatcham Historical Society

Not what people want to sit down and 'escape' with on Sunday evening

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 04:27 PM

Er Lizzie...
Confused now.
I've worked in many a shop...Yes, Yes, Yes....Have done bins too.
Therefore that makes ME, better than ME?
Are we moving into the realms of Quantum physics, where a particle can exist in various states simultaneously?
Ralph
(When do I get the upgrade to the Moaning Minnie status...rather be that than just a Snob.)
Is it something to do with Farmville?

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 04:34 PM

Emma B
I doff my cap to you. Very interesting and informative.
I never read the original diaries, maybe I will now.
Knowledge is strength after all.
Bob Coppers "Song for every season" is worth a glance if you can find a copy. Also Packie Byrnes "Songs of a Donegal Man" is prety good too.
Dave Eyre might be able to help.

So nice that we can put this thread to bed on a harmonious note, without interruption!
Good Night
Raplhie.

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 04:54 PM

Just to add a dose of reality: I would point out that neither of the women in tonight's episode of Lark Rise actually ended up as the teacher - neither was qualified. The school board duly brought in a properly qualified teacher at the end of the episode.

And yes, it was a work of fiction. If all teachers ever had to do was tell ghost stories and make puppets, as the village mother did in Lark Rise, their jobs would be far less demanding.

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 05:52 PM

Now of course I am forbidden to address teacher's pet, or to discuss her, but I can I hope discuss song lyrics.

"Who put the bomp in the bomp-she-bomp-she-bomp
Who put the dim in the dit-de-dit-de dim"?

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 06:08 PM

Just in case you forgot what you said, Ralph..it's here.

"...By all means, remove your children from the system if you so wish. Your choice. We wouldn't dream of doing such a stupid thing.
I suppose Universities are out of the question too?
Is that why you are a shop assistant?..."


I'll leave you to explain exactly what you meant by the 'shop assistant' bit.

I would however, point out to you that I'm damn LUCKY to have ANY job at all, because people are piss poor down here in Torquay. There are NO jobs, and if some do come up, then there are dozens of people going for every single one. People are struggling, REALLY struggling.

Your jobs do not interest me.

This thread is not about anyone's jobs. It is about education and the madness of what is happening inside The System which is putting appalling pressure on teachers, parents and most importantly, children.

I don't give a fig about you, or about any of your buddies who are the usual gang, although they've now roped in jeddy as well, which is a shame because we did used to be quite friendly...but that is her choice and her responsibility.

Richard, do you know something? You are so starting to sound like that person on Facebook, the one who makes double pages of folks in here, then puts unpleasant comments on about them.

I'd have thought, what with you knowing all about those pages, that you'd have decided to never get like him. Hey ho. Again, it's your choice.

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: jeddy
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 07:23 PM

lizzie, i haven't been roped into anything, yes we were friends once, even going over to FB. but the first time i disagreed with you, you defriended me! not something a true friend would do.

since then the more i have read of you, the more i dislike you.

i actually agree loosley with some of the things you say, but not your approach.
i have seen little in your posts that you are able to accept you are wrong or mistaken on anything.
you worry me lizzie. the way you can upend every subject to suit your mood that day is actually rather scary. i know i use the word I alot, but am quite happy to try to understand how things i write can affect other poeple something which you seem to have problems with.
you say you care about people when you comes accross as being incredibly self centred.

to you and me (depending on the subject) words on a screen are exactly that. but i think you forget that there are PEOPLE behind that screen with emotions and feelings.

i need no one to pull my strings and have a brain of my own. i don't know about your friends but mine would never try to TELL my what to think, just inform me and they trust me to make up my own mind.

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: jeddy
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 07:30 PM

i got 500!!!! yay meeeee.

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: jeddy
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 07:31 PM

oops, who can't count? i meant 150.
good job i don't work in a bank, you would all love me!

x x x x x x

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 08 Mar 10 - 02:57 AM

"lizzie, i haven't been roped into anything, yes we were friends once, even going over to FB. but the first time i disagreed with you, you defriended me! not something a true friend would do.

Eh?

jeddy, for your information, I removed ALL my friends from my Facebook page because I closed that page down. I took the whole lot off, friends, videos, words..everything. It was not personal, you know. That is the danger of the internet, people misinterpret things, assume the worst. I did not have the time, nor the inclination, to write to everyone on my page. I merely shut that page down.


"since then the more i have read of you, the more i dislike you."

Fair enough. That is entirely your choice. I am not here to justify myself to you, or others. There are times I'm not too keen on things you say, but please note, that I do not openly attack you or say the things you do about me or to me.

Thank you.