 sj |
||
|
||
BS: Caliphate
|
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: Stilly River Sage Date: 28 Jul 14 - 08:06 PM I added content for the stray reader who wishes to do further reading, to be given access to balanced views, and to think globally. Clearly you are set in your ways and I don't know why you bother to participate in these threads that must dismay you no end. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: bobad Date: 28 Jul 14 - 08:00 PM "Horrifying footage has emerged showing Sunni insurgents of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isis) beheading a police officer. In a shocking piece of footage - too graphic to publish - fighters are seen knocking on the door of a Sunni police major in the dead of night before they blindfold and cuff him. They then carve off his head with a knife in his own bedroom as religious hymns are played in the background. After the decapitation, the militants took a picture of the officer's head and posted it on Twitter with the comment: "This is our ball. It's made of skin #WorldCup." The Huffington Post UK |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: bobad Date: 28 Jul 14 - 07:56 PM "Death to the Jews" chanted the crowd waving the black flags of the Islamic State, or ISIS as it used to be known. They were looking for new supporters for their cause, the creation of a worldwide caliphate answering to the man who now calls himself Ibrahim: a zealot too radical even for Al Qaeda who has stormed through Syria and Iraq carrying out mass executions, crucifying rivals, beheading enemies. But these marchers were not in Syria or Iraq; they were in The Hague in The Netherlands. And their message was one tailored to the disaffected young descendants of Muslim immigrants in Europe." ISIS's Black Flags Are Flying in Europe |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: bobad Date: 28 Jul 14 - 07:53 PM The thread topic is the Caliphate SRS, do you have anything to say about that or are you only fixated on Israel? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: Stilly River Sage Date: 28 Jul 14 - 07:24 PM Your blinders are held in place with a vise, bobad. It's cutting off the blood supply to your brain. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: bobad Date: 28 Jul 14 - 07:20 PM "And the Israelis who foist it upon others are over-representing what it is about." I stopped reading at this point. Like I said I've got your number. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: Greg F. Date: 28 Jul 14 - 07:17 PM Ah, but SRS: some people are not in their right minds. As for reading the article & following the links, little to no hope |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: Stilly River Sage Date: 28 Jul 14 - 07:13 PM No one in their right might would accept that document that you claim has such gravitas, bobad. And the Israelis who foist it upon others are over-representing what it is about. You have to hunt to find criticisms of that group ("European Union Monitoring Centre on Racism and Xenophobia"), but they're out there. The "definition" you clutch to your breast is a document written by a hyper-Israeli special interest group that is not the policy accepted by the European Union (though the name would suggest this illustrates a rhetorical category of false advertising). The story of the EU Monitoring Centre's 2005 draft working definition of anti-Semitism, a text so enthusiastically pushed by Israel advocates in California and beyond, is not well known — but it is illuminating. Written by special hand-picked zealots, how could it work out any differently? And by the way, the group is no longer called EUMC. Based in Vienna, the center has subsequently been renamed the Fundamental Rights Agency. When you quote their dogma, be sure you name the group correctly. Since its publication, the definition has been repeatedly cited by pro-Israel advocacy groups to attack Palestine solidarity activism, and used — in the words of Ken Stern himself, in the aforementioned Kantor Center's conference program — "with the subtlety of a mallet." Those paragraphs are filled with links. Go read the article and follow some of them. SRS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: bobad Date: 28 Jul 14 - 05:58 PM And it doesn't change the fact that you are defined by the words you use. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: Greg F. Date: 28 Jul 14 - 05:28 PM Hey, Boo- it was ranting nonsence when you posted it once - posting it twice doesn't make it any better. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: Greg F. Date: 28 Jul 14 - 05:25 PM Thank you, SRS. Nicely and succinctly stated. Certain ranting hate-mongers on this forum have been throwing this idiotic "anti-Semite" bullshit around for an eternity. It doesn't improve over time. Best, Greg |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: bobad Date: 28 Jul 14 - 05:15 PM And I'm going to call them on it every time they do it whether you like it or not. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: bobad Date: 28 Jul 14 - 05:11 PM So, SRS, do you accept the European Union Monitoring Centre on Racism and Xenophobia (EUMC) definition of antisemitism or do you have your own definition? When I say someone is an antisemite I am calling them on the criteria as stated in the definition. You may call it name calling but I call it as it is. I've got your number. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: Stilly River Sage Date: 28 Jul 14 - 04:47 PM bobad people can be opposed to what Israel does as a nation, what the Israeli government does as a body, and even opposed to what individual jewish individuals do in the name of their religion (such as kidnapping and killing children or building more settlements) without being an anti-semite. When your case (the one you, bobad, make against others here at mudcat) is so poor that the only answer you have in a dispute is to call the other party names, then you have no argument. Ad hominem attacks mean you're trying to distract by appealing to unrelated arguments (does calling someone "antisemite" mean they have to stop the first discussion and go on the defensive regarding their own attitudes towards jews? No. It doesn't.) If the only card you have to play is name calling, your argument is bankrupt. Check and mate. SRS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: Richard Bridge Date: 28 Jul 14 - 04:31 PM A spot of a difficulty, linguistically. When an individual Moslem (or a specific group of Moslems) does something that accords with the stereotypical views held by the usual suspects about Moslems, then the usual suspects complain that nothing is done about it because of political correctness. But when an individual Jew (or a specific group of Jews) does something that accords with a stereotypical view of Jews, then the SAME group of usual suspects cry "antisemite" if the actions of that or those Jews are criticised. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: Stilly River Sage Date: 28 Jul 14 - 04:29 PM It is all tied together, no tail wagging the dog here. When Israel fights with its next door neighbors it stirs up the anger of the entire region. When Israel picks on Palestinians regional factions look around to see who they can attack as a counter measure. One assumes any jews still in Iraq are buried deep and out of sight, or more likely, left. That makes christians and minority sect muslim residents next in the SRS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: bobad Date: 28 Jul 14 - 04:23 PM "A group of people like the Palestinians, perhaps?" You really are a fucking antisemite aren't you Greg? Israel treats its Palestinian citizens better than any of it's neighbouring Muslim countries do. They themselves say that. They also say that they prefer living in Israel, where they have equal rights as citizens, than in any Muslim country. Palestinian majority villages and towns refuse to become incorporated in the West Bank in a land exchange proposal. Your attempt to demonize Israel with your vicious lies makes you an antisemite. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: Greg F. Date: 28 Jul 14 - 04:10 PM But it is the eradication of a group of people – race, culture, ethnicity, religion. So this meets the official test of genocide." " A group of people like the Palestinians, perhaps? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: beardedbruce Date: 28 Jul 14 - 03:24 PM Greggie, you total shithead, the comment that Wolf made is about the actions of the "caliphate" The subject of this thread. If you have further problems, try taking your head out of your ass before making a post next time. "The terrorist group the Islamic State, an al Qaida off shoot that has taken over large swaths of Iraq in recent months, told Christians in the Iraqi city of Mosul they had to convert to Islam by July 18 or they would be killed, according to the Economist. The only other option they were given was to leave Mosul, a city which has had a Christian presence for nearly two millennia. So thousands of Christians have now fled the city in fear for their lives. "It is genocide. It meets the test of genocide," Wolf said Friday on Hugh Hewitt's radio show, which this writer guest hosted. "The definition of genocide was put together by the UN by a guy named Raphael Lemkin. But it is the eradication of a group of people – race, culture, ethnicity, religion. So this meets the official test of genocide." " |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: Greg F. Date: 28 Jul 14 - 03:05 PM You mean what does Frank Wolf have to do with it, Bullshot? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: beardedbruce Date: 28 Jul 14 - 11:06 AM Greggie boy, What does Gaza have to do with the Caliphate? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: Greg F. Date: 28 Jul 14 - 11:00 AM My congressman Frank Wolf of Virginia was one of the co-sponsors of House Resolution 1765. Frank has been in Congress a long time and he is reported to be the largest recipient of Israel PAC money in the state of Virginia. In his promotional literature Frank brags about what a great family man he is, including pictures of himself with his grandchildren. I wish him and his family no ill, but I would like to make him think of the consequences of how he votes in Congress. Put Frank and his whole family into a burned out shell of a house in Gaza for a few days without food or water, knowing that to stick their heads out invites a round from an Israeli sniper. See how he would like it. What would be his reaction if one of his grandchildren were to become sick only to be denied access to a hospital three hundred yards away because an Israeli border patrol thug is trying to show how tough he is?... Philip Giraldi is a former CIA Officer |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 28 Jul 14 - 10:43 AM If genocide is recognised UN is bound to intervene, so it will not be recognised. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: beardedbruce Date: 28 Jul 14 - 10:25 AM http://news.yahoo.com/congressman-genocide-against-christians-going-iraq-white-house-164618191.html Virginia Republican Rep. Frank Wolf says there is a genocide being perpetrated against the Christians of Iraq and the White House hasn't said a word about it, much less acted to stop it. The terrorist group the Islamic State, an al Qaida off shoot that has taken over large swaths of Iraq in recent months, told Christians in the Iraqi city of Mosul they had to convert to Islam by July 18 or they would be killed, according to the Economist. The only other option they were given was to leave Mosul, a city which has had a Christian presence for nearly two millennia. So thousands of Christians have now fled the city in fear for their lives. "It is genocide. It meets the test of genocide," Wolf said Friday on Hugh Hewitt's radio show, which this writer guest hosted. "The definition of genocide was put together by the UN by a guy named Raphael Lemkin. But it is the eradication of a group of people – race, culture, ethnicity, religion. So this meets the official test of genocide." Asked if President Barack Obama has spoken out against this atrocity, Wolf said he has not. "No, the president hasn't said anything, the State Department hasn't said anything," he lamented. "Frankly, nobody is saying anything." Asked what the United States could do about the situation in Mosul, Wolf listed several options. "There is a lot we can do," he said. "One, the President of the United States can urge the Kurdish government to continue to guard and protect the Christians." "Secondly, we can give some of the foreign aid that we are already giving, give it to a group like Catholic Relief or World Vision or a group like that, to provide relief – water, food, clothing," he continued. "Thirdly, we can tell the Maliki government to start protecting the Christian sites and the Christian communities. [Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-]Maliki flew out – all the Shia were flown out of Mosul – and they left the Christians there to die." "And lastly," Wolf concluded, "every person who is listening should call their congressman and their senator and insist that they insist the White House do something." |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: Teribus Date: 28 Jul 14 - 09:13 AM "There are 23 pending sanctions through resolutions for The USA to either lift their veto or move to abstention." Complete and utter bullsh*t Musket A resolution is drafted and discussed by the Security Council of the United Nations. A final wording is agreed and a vote is taken. Any of the five permanent members can then veto the resolution and if that happens then that particular resolution is dead in the water - it cannot be "resurrected", there could be no lifting of veto or alteration of position - The phrase "That the council remains seized on or fixed on" relates to the possible drafting of new resolutions on the same subject. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 28 Jul 14 - 07:49 AM There are no UN sanctions in force. You stated that there are. No wonder you sign yourself Prat! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: Musket Date: 28 Jul 14 - 06:39 AM There are 23 pending sanctions through resolutions for The USA to either lift their veto or move to abstention. Obama, according to BBC reports, told Netanyahu over the weekend that they will be implemented if Israel doesn't cease hostilities. You are purposely muddying the waters by differentiating between sanctions in force and sanctions awaiting enforcement. Oh, by the way, your stupid comment about dictatorships getting resolutions through? Members of the security council have a veto on implementation as The USA demonstrates. The sanction is there, the veto is about implementation. The technical term is "resolve to sanction." Far right websites don't tell you that bit. You'll have to broaden your reading matter. Prat. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 28 Jul 14 - 05:19 AM Take the first one. UN sanctions against Israel. What are they Musket? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 28 Jul 14 - 04:57 AM You still have not learned anything then. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: Musket Date: 28 Jul 14 - 04:51 AM Err.. Let's see. Yes there are. Yes there are. Yes, when there is no recognised war, as in this case. No, they are both seen as aggressors and defending, as diplomacy demands. Look Keith, I know you are one of those sad old buggers who likes to impress people, pretending to be a soldier and all that. Good luck to you. My mate Pete even went as far as an SAS badge to sew on his blazer. No harm in that. But you have to know where to stop. You are trying to impress people who actually know what they speak of, and some of us feel embarrassed for you. Grubby dictatorships with a vote... Let's leave it at that eh? At least you can go out on a silly high note. That's worthy of your pet worm, never mind you. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 28 Jul 14 - 04:34 AM No one listens to the General Assembly which is dominated by grubby dictatorships each with a vote. What does Ban Ki Moon say? It takes a buffoon to pontificate on something they know so little about. You thought there were UN "sanctions" against Israel. You thought there were EU "restrictions." You thought that any civilian death means a war crime is committed. You did not know that EU, Canada and most democracies recognise Hamas as terrorists and Israel as acting in self defence. You are an ignorant buffoon. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: Musket Date: 28 Jul 14 - 03:27 AM Tell you what I do know, having chaired a few bodies, including government quangos before now. The position of a body is the resolution of its highest ratifying assembly. In the case of The UN, that would be the general assembly. (Yes, funnily enough I have checked that. Years ago in fact when fishing for WHO funding for a UNHCR project we got involved with.) So, first you say The UN don't have resolutions against Israel, then you say nobody listens to them (inadvertently a fact) and then you say the position of The UN isn't decided by The UN. Not much point in carrying on till your medication stabilises. When you said buffoon, for a minute there I thought you meant me. Sorry, you don't have to introduce yourself. Most people on Mudcat seem to know you and where you are coming from... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 27 Jul 14 - 01:51 PM "The UN reiterates no such thing, except that General Council resolutions always go against Israel." If that is so funny or wrong, produce an example of UN reiterating that. You can't because it is bollocks. I have quoted Ban Ki Moon and other officials on this. The General assembly always votes against Israel, but that is not the UN position. You just have no idea about any of this. Your are indeed an inadequate, posturing buffoon. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: Musket Date: 27 Jul 14 - 01:26 PM Ha! Ha HA!! "The UN reiterates no such thing, except that General Council resolutions always go against Israel." Eeh. if I were in the pub, I'd be shouting that one at you over the bar every time you'd have the barefaced cheek to show your sad face in there. Hey Keith! Repeat that one about self defence again? It's about the first time you have said anything in favour of the Palestinian struggle. I suppose I should stop goading him. He doesn't have the intelligence to make an argument you could discuss against or even, Clapton forbid, agree with. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 27 Jul 14 - 07:42 AM "Most international lawyers would agree that rockets launched against civilians that disrupt the social life of part of a country constitute an armed attack for the purposes of Article 51" BBC. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: Jim Carroll Date: 27 Jul 14 - 05:36 AM There has never been any question of defence other in the minds of those who wish to defend Israel's genocide. Hopefully, the country who has suffered greatly under political extremism, (which was fully supported by our own dear Mrs T) will give inspiration to others with its announced boycott of all Israeli goods Jim Carroll |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 27 Jul 14 - 04:41 AM BBC "Enshrined in Article 51 of the UN Charter, the right of self-defence is accepted as a fundamental principle of international law. While aspects of this principle are disputed, it is universally agreed that a state can defend itself against an armed attack. There is some debate as to the intensity that an armed attack should reach before a state can lawfully resort to self-defence. Most international lawyers would agree that rockets launched against civilians that disrupt the social life of part of a country constitute an armed attack for the purposes of Article 51" http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20415886 |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 27 Jul 14 - 04:40 AM Am I dreaming or has Keith repeated yet again that Israel is legitimate in bombing children? You are dreaming. It is illegal to attack civilians. He keeps talking of international law yet The UN keeps reiterating that Israel is an aggressor and has no more right than Hamas. The UN reiterates no such thing, except that General Council resolutions always go against Israel. You will find no official reiterating such bollocks. This thread is not about Israel and Gaza BTW. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: MGM·Lion Date: 27 Jul 14 - 04:08 AM Still hope enjoyed Poulaphouca, mind... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: Jim Carroll Date: 27 Jul 14 - 03:50 AM "Not much concerned with your opinion of me" Sadly the feeling is mutual Jim Carroll |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: MGM·Lion Date: 27 Jul 14 - 03:43 AM Not much concerned with your opinion of me, Jim: so obviously do not greatly value your 'promise'. But Happy Birthday to you nevertheless. Enjoy! ≈M≈ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: Jim Carroll Date: 27 Jul 14 - 03:25 AM "and I will stop thinking you 'antisemitic' in going on as if they already have" And I will stop regarding you as a cowardly hypocrite when you extend your disapproval of Israel beyond broken camera and fruit trees to take in the deliberate wholesale slaughtering of defenceless human beings - that's a promise. Jim Carroll |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: Musket Date: 27 Jul 14 - 02:23 AM Am I dreaming or has Keith repeated yet again that Israel is legitimate in bombing children? He keeps talking of international law yet The UN keeps reiterating that Israel is an aggressor and has no more right than Hamas. It is this attitude, when repeated by important people rather than armchair soldiers such as Keith, that make situations worse. On another thread I referred to the vast number of resolutions and sanctions against Israel. I even quoted from Keith's favourite source Wikipedia. Pathetic. In the meantime, Bradford City Council are flying the Palestinian flag outside the city hall. Not everybody is taken in by the fodder Keith loves to read and salivate over. He says my comments are amusing. His make decent people queasy. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: MGM·Lion Date: 27 Jul 14 - 01:06 AM BTW ~~ Considering the tedious interminability of the portentous documents you continually see fit to copy/paste here, and appear to expect any human being to plough right thru, I think an accusation of 'hiding behind pieces of paper' somewhat ill becomes you, James! Regards again ≈M≈ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: MGM·Lion Date: 26 Jul 14 - 02:38 PM Stop hiding behind bits of paper Mike The logic of your argument is that if Israel set up gas chambers and herded the Palestinian people into them it would be "Anti-Semitic" to compare them to the Nazis - give us a break! .,,. Constantly astounded at the rubbish one of Jim's apparent intelligence can keep on unblushingly coming out with. Time for him to "give us all a break". Re pt 1: Hardly 'hiding behind a piece of paper' to cite the findings of an official committee set up by a recognised international body for the express purpose of establishing a definition of the topic immediately under consideration. Pt2 - Let me know when they do, Jim; and I will stop thinking you 'antisemitic' in going on as if they already have -- which, just as a matter of fact, they haven't, you know; or anything remotely approaching it; and only a hostilely motivated fool could even suggest such a contingency. Honestly don't know what in hell you are on about — -- & don't believe you really do either. You do sometimes get a bit carried away by your own rhetorical verbosity, you know, dear old chappie: and almost invariably make the sort of bloody fool of yourself which anyone with half an iota of sense can see you have done here, with that idiotic invented contingency quoted above. Best regards as ever ~M~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: bobad Date: 26 Jul 14 - 02:29 PM 175,000 and counting - Oh yawn........no "Palestine" hashtag! http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/World/Middle-East/85-Syria-troops-killed-in-jihadist-takeover-Monitor/articleshow/39052684.cms |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 26 Jul 14 - 02:08 PM The Israelophobes are driven to hijack threads, any threads, to attack Israel. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: Mrrzy Date: 26 Jul 14 - 02:06 PM Well, it was *supposed* to be about the Caliphate. Now it seems to be an object lesson. It was already Thursday, but His Lordship's artificial limb could not be found. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: Jim Carroll Date: 26 Jul 14 - 01:42 PM "You two are just incapable of understanding." Comes from not being "infallible" eh? Jim Carroll |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 26 Jul 14 - 11:04 AM Not arrogant bullshit but facts. You two are just incapable of understanding. |