BS: Caliphate

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 05:26 PM

Musket.
Saudi Arabia are a rogue terrorist state. They support terrorism wherever it fits with Wahabi principles.

They do not support IS, so which do they support?

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 05:22 PM

"SAUDI ARABIA, TURKEY AND QATAR, ALL OF WHOM ARE SUPPLYING ARMS TO ISIS"

No they are not.
Maybe they did early on when it was just another rebel group against Assad, but not since their real nature was revealed

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Musket
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 03:07 PM

Saudi Arabia are a rogue terrorist state. They support terrorism wherever it fits with Wahabi principles.

Sadly, we are too far in bed with them to be able to resist sucking their dick.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 02:58 PM

Saudi Arabia has supported Isis - if it has dried up recently they have still supplied arms to Isis from those bought from the U.S. and Britain.
The reason given by Saudi Arabia for no longer supporting Isis is not because they no longer oppose their aims but "they believe Isis will target them next"
If that threat to their sovereignty lessens they will return support their aims and Britain will continue to sell them arms..   
The situation has not changed in any way with Turkey, Qatar and Kuwait - all supporting Isis - all arms customers of Britain and the U.S.
We are back to your supporting arms sales to terrorist states - leopards - spots and all that.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 02:18 PM

They are NOT selling arms to ISIS.

See my links Jim.
Your "ISIS funding" link, (except for the headline!) is all past tense.
"But in the years they were getting started,..."

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 01:51 PM

"No they are not."
Oh yess they are

ISIS FUNDING

WHAT????
"Last year alone, the government approved the export of £1.6bn of arms to Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is vital to BAE, which this year signed a deal a deal worth well over £4bn for 72 Eurofighter Typhoon jets. The company is hoping for a further £1bn-plus contract from the Saudis to upgrade the Typhoons."

KUWAIT

http://www.caat.org.uk/resources/countries/turkey/uk-arms-sales.php

Saudi helped Isis to take over Northern Iraq

Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 01:24 PM

The Independent,
"Fear of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isis, who now refer to themselves the Islamic State) is the new uniting factor for states in the Middle East and beyond who normally hate each other. The sudden emergence of Isis's still expanding caliphate, with its terrifying blend of brutality, bigotry and military effectiveness, provides a common enemy for the US, Iran, EU states, Saudi Arabia, Turkey and, in Iraq, Shia, Kurds and anti-Isis Sunni."
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/fear-brings-the-enemies-of-isis-together-at-last-9673644.html

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 01:17 PM

Guardian headline Monday,"Saudi Arabia does not support Islamic State terrorists – or any others"

"Let me make it perfectly clear. The government of Saudi Arabia does not support or fund the murderers who have collected under the banner of the Islamic State. Their ideology is not one that we recognise, or that would be recognised by the vast majority of Muslims around the world – whether they were Sunni or Shia.

Under the leadership of the Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques, King Abdullah, we launched an initiative for dialogue between all religions and cultures in 2008 with the establishment of the King Abdullah Bin Abdulaziz International Centre for Interreligious and Intercultural Dialogue in Vienna.

Following an international counterterrorism conference held in Riyadh in 2005, the UN counterterrorism centre was established with financial support of $200m from our government.

We have been and are fighting extremism within our own borders daily, indeed hourly"
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/17/saudi-arabia-not-support-islamic-state-terrorists

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Musket
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 12:59 PM

Er... I know this sounds obvious, but I'll say it anyway.

Yes they are.

Saudi Arabia buys arms from us and is the sponsor and indeed origin of Wahabism, the literal interpretation of The Q'ran and supports those who profess it. IS being a prime example.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 12:40 PM

STILL NOT A WORD OF CRITICISM ON THE FACT THAT BRITAIN IS SELLING ARMS TO SAUDI ARABIA, TURKEY AND QATAR, ALL OF WHOM ARE SUPPLYING ARMS TO ISIS.

No they are not.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 11:10 AM

"Jim says it is because Israel has the support of EU, Canada, and US. So not really because of what they do."
What the **** are you talking about?
STILL NOT A WORD OF CRITICISM ON THE FACT THAT BRITAIN IS SELLING ARMS TO SAUDI ARABIA, TURKEY AND QATAR, ALL OF WHOM ARE SUPPLYING ARMS TO ISIS
America has just proposed joining forces with Assad to fight Isis, so instead of supporting the Arab Spring protests before Isis filled the gap they left, they will be fighting on the side of a mass-murderer in order to prevent another bunch of mass murderers from taking over.
If there is any serious opposition, Isis will quite likely be killing American troops with weapons that have been sold by Britain and America via Qatar, Turkey and Saudi Arabia, all major arms customers of Britain and America.
All very confusing - Jonathan Swift and Lewis Carroll could not have dreamed it up after a week on the batter!!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 09:04 AM

Human cost of conflict in Syria/Iraq.
2.9m
Refugees have fled abroad to escape the fighting in Syria
1.2m
Iraqis have been internally displaced
10.8m Syrians in need of humanitarian aid
1m Iraqis living in refugee camps or receiving emergency supplies
2,410 tonnes Tents and equipment being sent to Iraq in massive UN aid operation
Source: OCHA

BBC.
"the war in Syria continues to rage and has spilled over into neighbouring states. The death toll is now approaching 200,000, according to activists.

The hope of salvation has now vanished for many Syrians.

Majed, an advocate of civil disobedience and opponent of armed rebellion, has left Syria.

"The world has failed the Syrian people," he says.

"After the chemical attack I saw many men around me turn to extremism. The disappointment caused by the West's inaction created a fertile recruiting ground for extremist groups, who told those who had lost their loved ones that they were their only hope."

"People want a way out of the violence Assad is inflicting on them."

Many other Syrians feel the same.

"No-one cares about us," is a complaint you often hear, as is: "They even stopped calculating the number of dead or refugees amongst us."
"The readiness of the US to launch air strikes against Islamic State fighters in neighbouring Iraq to protect members of the Yazidi religious minority has caused further disappointment to those who once took to the streets calling for freedom and are now left suffering atrocities carried out by both Assad's forces and IS."

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: bobad
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 09:03 AM

Continue bombing ISIS where potentially efficacious, as heavily and for as long as needed. This week's bombing forced them to give up the dam they'd seized at Mosul, an act that left ISIS looking, for the first time in its history, reduced and stoppable. Go to Congress for authorization of force, showing the world we have gained at least some semblance of unity. Give the Kurds, our actual friends, every kind of help they need, from military to material. Use the threat of ISIS to forge new bonds with allies and possible allies, such as the leaders of nearby countries that are immediately threatened. Go to the U.N., pound the table, ask for the world's help. Let them humiliate themselves by doing nothing if that's what they choose. At least it will be clarifying.

And be prepared, to the degree possible, for a hit or hits on American soil or that of our longstanding allies. ISIS says it's coming. So far they've done pretty much everything they said they'd do.

Wall Street Journal

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 07:07 AM

Some countries supported ISIS against Assad, I imagine with your approval Jim.
That has stopped now and Isis captures more arms than it needs.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 06:56 AM

In comparison Musket.
There have been countless anti-Israel demos., but not one anti-IS.

Why are so many outraged by Israel but not outraged by the real evil?
Why have YOU posted so many condemnations of Israel?
Have YOU posted anything at all criticising IS?
Why the difference?

Jim says it is because Israel has the support of EU, Canada, and US.
So not really because of what they do.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 06:52 AM

"There clearly IS a difference."
Your concern for the victims of Isis doesn't quite extend to demanding that Britain stops selling weapons to those states who are arming Isis?
Now why am I not surprised?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Musket
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 06:46 AM

IS aren't getting a murmur?

Your journey to the dark delusion is complete young Slywalker.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 05:18 AM

There clearly IS a difference.
Israel is condemned, boycotted and demonstrated against and massively posted against here, while the terror and horror that US now also says is a greater threat to us all than anything else in the world today gets not a murmur.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 03:08 AM

"What is the difference?"
The only difference is that the Israeli terrorists are being allowed a free hand to continue their terrorism and slaughter with the support of the U.S. and its British poodle, while on the other hand, there is little official support anywhere for Isis (except for that of the odd trading partner of Britain, such as Turkey, Qatar and Saudi Arabia (all British arms customers), who actually help arm Isis, so indirectly, we are part of that terror trail.
How about organising a demonstration, or even putting your head above the parapet and saying no to Britain's involvement in indirect arms sales to fanatical terrorism - no - didn't think so really !!
It is gratifying to see you are at last coming around to recognising the fact that there is very little difference between the two though -
"One step at a time, sweet Jesus", as the song says.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Aug 14 - 10:30 PM

We wish.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: GUEST,Jebidiah LaCount
Date: 21 Aug 14 - 08:07 PM

Then methought,
the air grew denser,
perfumed by a Mudcat censor,
whose footfalls tinkled
on the cutting room floor.

This is my final post on the Mudcat forum, as I will take my genius where it is understood and appreciated, and not simply rabidly coveted. But before I bid the site adieu, I must impart to the humorless censor a final farewell of sorts, in the form of a hearty, "Bonk you!".

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Aug 14 - 07:03 PM

If bobad and beardie-boy have opinions at all, the poor souls are way too inarticulate to express them coherently (though beardie-boy does love his CAPITALS when he's trying to TELL you a FACT!), which is why they generally choose to post either Zionist links, without accompanying comment, or big tracts of unattributed copy and paste. There are some discussion forums that would throw them out for that type of brainless behaviour. We're quite nice to them here, aren't we?

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Aug 14 - 05:36 PM

This was posted to Facebook by my friend Tarek Fatah:

Farcebook, Boo - then its gotta be true.

Just like Bearded Bullshot's anonymous bullshit of 21 Aug 14 - 04:13 PM - gotta be true too.

Not.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: bobad
Date: 21 Aug 14 - 04:43 PM

"The Norwegian news portal VG Nett is reporting that a Muslim terrorist group, Ansar al-Sunna', is threatening that if a section of the nation's capitol isn't transformed into a sharia-complaint Muslim nation, an attack rivaling 9/11 will be launched upon the Scandinavian nation.

"We do not wish to live together with dirty beasts like you."

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: beardedbruce
Date: 21 Aug 14 - 04:13 PM

The president of the world's most populous Muslim-majority country, Indonesia, on Thursday called the actions of Islamic State militants "embarrassing" to the religion and urged Islamic leaders to unite in tackling extremism.

Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono said the scale of the slaughter wrought by the extremists in overrunning large swathes of Iraq and Syria and the level of violence being used was appalling.

"It is shocking. It is becoming out of control," he said in an interview with The Australian, a day after IS released a video showing a masked militant beheading US reporter James Foley, provoking worldwide revulsion.

"We do not tolerate it, we forbid ISIS in Indonesia," he added, referring to the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, as IS was formerly known.

"Indonesia is not an Islamic state. We respect all religions."

He urged international leaders to work together to combat radicalisation.

"This is a new wake-up call to international leaders all over the world, including Islamic leaders," he said, adding that the actions of IS were not only "embarrassing" to Islam but "humiliating", the newspaper reported.

"All leaders must review how to combat extremism. Changing paradigms on both sides are needed -- how the West perceives Islam and how Islam perceives the West."

Indonesia is home to the world's biggest Muslim population of about 225 million and has long struggled with terrorism. But a successful clampdown in recent years has seen the end of major deadly attacks.

Jakarta has estimated that dozens of Indonesians have travelled to Syria and Iraq to fight and Yudhoyono said he was concerned about their return, adding that he had tasked agencies to oppose the spread of extremist ideology in the sprawling nation.

"Our citizens here in Indonesia are picking up recruitment messages from ISIS containing extremist ideas," said the president, whose decade in office comes to an end in October.

"The philosophy of ISIS stands against the fundamental values we embrace in Indonesia. Last Friday, in my state of the union address to the nation, I called on all Indonesians to reject ISIS and to stop the spread of its radical ideology.

"My government and security agencies have taken decisive steps to curtail the spread of ISIS in Indonesia, including by prohibiting Indonesians to join ISIS or to fight for ISIS, and also by blocking Internet sites that promote this idea."

- 'Pure evil' -

Indonesia's neighbour Australia has also seen up to 150 of its nationals join the militants, with the photo of an Australian boy holding a severed head in Syria last week sparking global condemnation.

Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott on Thursday said IS was "as close to pure evil as we're ever likely to find" and what happened to Foley was "sickening".

He also voiced concern that jailed Indonesian militant cleric Abu Bakar Bashir -- the chief ideologue of regional terror network Jemaah Islamiyah -- had pledged allegiance to IS.

JI is blamed for the Bali bombings in 2002, which claimed 88 Australian lives, although a successful crackdown over the past decade has weakened such groups.

"That does indicate the potential for increased terrorist activity in our region," Abbott told reporters when asked about Bashir's pledge.

Bashir, a vocal supporter of Al-Qaeda style jihad, has been in and out of prison for years and is currently serving a 15-year term for funding terrorism.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: robomatic
Date: 21 Aug 14 - 03:31 PM

Guest, Chris B:
"Yeah, yeah, what about the Spanish Inquisition yadda yadda yadda. Fuck it. We've seen enough of this shit. The Yanks must know where these scumbags hide. A few nukes would probably work wonders in the long run. "

People would talk...

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 21 Aug 14 - 02:48 PM

Yeah, yeah, what about the Spanish Inquisition yadda yadda yadda. Fuck it. We've seen enough of this shit. The Yanks must know where these scumbags hide. A few nukes would probably work wonders in the long run.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: bobad
Date: 21 Aug 14 - 08:30 AM

This was posted to Facebook by my friend Tarek Fatah:

"In the gruesome murder of American journalist Foley, it troubles me when I hear Muslims say, "beheading has nothing to do with Islam" and then people like president Obama validate that lie.

How can Muslims deny that Prophet Muhammad himself ordered the beheading of a poet in Mecca who mocked Allah in his poetry? That makes the beheading punishment a Sunnah .

Do we deny that later Muslims would behead the Prophet's dearest grandson and then parade the head through the streets of Damascus ?

Why do we pretend we don't know that centuries later in Baghdad, the agnostic Mansoor Hallaj was beheaded publicly?

Do Muslim leaders not know about Timurlane building pyramids of skulls as Sharia experts cheered him on?

We need to stop lying."

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Aug 14 - 07:19 AM

" perhaps more so than on a hypocritical "organised religion"?"
Certainly not
Organised religion has never made any bones about putting itself at the disposal of the establishment, particularly that of the far-right Franco - Mussolini- Pinochet.... any tinpot South American dictator you could care to name did what they did with 'God's blessing', and the scriptures were often used to justify their actions "doing God's work'.
Those churchmen unwise enough to stick their head above the parapet were soon given short shrift - the French worker-priest, Romero.... gone in a flash
The genuine faithful were not given the choice
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Aug 14 - 06:28 AM

No news of anyone organising protest demonstrations against the perpetrators of these horrific massacres on a scale not seen since the days of Pohl Pot.

The scale dwarfs anything seen involving Israel.
Plenty of demonstrations against Israel though.
What is the difference?

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Aug 14 - 05:24 AM

True Jim, the "state" has always sought to USE religion to further its aims, but that reflects badly on a secular establishment, perhaps more so than on a hypocritical "organised religion"?

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 08:34 PM

Do you have a point?

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: bobad
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 07:30 PM

The Guardian reported Wednesday that, according to a former hostage, the British national who acted as executioner in the Foley murder video was one of three U.K. citizens known among jihadists as the "Beatles," who are in charge of holding foreign hostages in the Syrian city of Raqqa.

Shiraz Maher, a senior research fellow at the Center for the Study of Radicalization at King's College London, said he estimates that between 500 and 600 British citizens have gone to fight the Jihad in Syria, with the vast majority of these volunteers joining ISIS. He said that in his field research on the Turkish/Syrian border, rebel fighters have said the British foreign fighters are often the most extreme.

The UK Jihadists who Murdered Foley

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 03:48 PM

"Come on Jim, you cannot blame the results of greed and avarice on "Christian faith""
I don't - I blame it on the Christian -and any other church.
The Empires were built on "civilising and Christianising" the world
"God" - whichever god, has been used as a conquering symbol down the ages.
The World War one bloodbath was fought for "God, King and Country" - i that order.
Wars are still fought "with God on our side" - didn't somebody write a song about it?
The written doctrines of Christianity are filled with stoning as a punishment for for sinful women - look up 'The Bad Bible' sometime.
Our moving away from the more primitive side of our religions has been a matter of the church having no choice.
When Belgium carried out its atrocities, it did so in the name of King Leopold (appointed by God" and with the full knowledge and blessing of the Church.
In the 1930s, Mussolini's bombers slaughtered the Abyssinian people with bombs blessed by the Pope.
Give us a break Ake - you claim to be a Marxist
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 02:43 PM

"Prior to the start of World War One, 'Gallant little (Christian) Belgium didn't blink an eye when its government and commerce slaughtered 10 million 'heathen blacks' (Congolese) in pursuit of rubber."

Come on Jim, you cannot blame the results of greed and avarice on "Christian faith"

Of course there have been horrific things done in pursuit of booty,
Capitalism and colonialism have much to answer for.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 02:26 PM

"No Christian could hold such beliefs and remain a Christian."
This was an essential part of Christianity for many centuries - not just Christian versus non Christian, but Christians who kicked with the wrong foot.
Not so long ago a leading churchman being questioned on the Inquisition not only justified the deaths that had occurred over the centuries of its existence, but he said that, should it be necessary, he could see no reason why it should not happen again.
The killing of non-believers is an essential part of many religions including Christianity.
The only thing that has changed if the opportunity to carry out such a doctrine.
Prior to the start of World War One, 'Gallant little (Christian) Belgium didn't blink an eye when its government and commerce slaughtered 10 million 'heathen blacks' (Congolese) in pursuit of rubber.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 02:20 PM

Socialist French President Francois Hollande said Wednesday he would arrange a conference next month on the threat posed by Takfiri extremists in Iraq, describing the current international situation as "the most serious since 2001".

"I think we are in the most serious international situation since 2001..."

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 01:47 PM

to be rather more succinct M, Greg can be a right pain in the balls at times, but he has been here a long time and CAN make valid points when he wants to.

He has strong views and says it like he sees it, but he is not a phoney smart arse like our mutual friend.

Greg and Ian might seem similar in M.O., but they inhabit completely different universes.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 11:54 AM

A troll who should not be fed, IMO.

Then why dost thou continue to do so, Leon?

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Musket
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 11:28 AM

So, we see Akenaton and Michael both saying that Muslims are all potential terrorists now. Michael not able to tell the difference between a newsagent in The UK and a member of The Taliban in Afghanistan, and Akenaton saying responsible Islam can turn to radical Islam or some such nonsense, whilst ignoring the Christians who kill for their superstition.

Fucking disgusting

His rambling nonsense on Christians is as funny to read as it must have been embarrassing to type. Hey Worm! You might wish to become a Muslim yourself! Like Christians, they are taught to hate gay dudes! But like anybody who is culturally religious, the vast majority live and let live.

By the way, you have already lost. I'll chuck the first stone at you when I come up to Inveraray in a couple of weeks time.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 11:02 AM

No Christian could hold such beliefs and remain a Christian.

Sorry Ake, but there's plenty of folks that CALL themselves "Christians" and DO hold such beliefs.

Just as there are plenty of folks who CALL THEMSELVES Muslims & do so.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 10:19 AM

Your first clause is the point, Ake. "Deserve" is the word; as in the incomparable Jane Austen's formulation, "she did not think he deserved the compliment of rational opposition."

He is short on real argument, but long on mere assertion. A troll who should not be fed, IMO. Why not just leave him to chunter away to his stupid self?

Thus another germane quotation to adduce: Beatrice to Benedick in first scene of Much Ado About Nothing: "I wonder you would still be talking, Signor Benedick. Nobody marks you."

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 09:51 AM

Greg, I don't think you deserve many of the responses you get, but it is just not reasonable to equate the actions of fundamentalist Christians, with the actions of radical Islamists.
Please stop insulting people and start using you brain in a positive manner.

The Islamists believe that all who oppose them, or blaspheme against them should be put to death.
No Christian could hold such beliefs and remain a Christian.

Without doubt we are facing a great danger, and one which we will ultimately lose through weakness. Our society is corrupt and debauched, we have lost our values and sense of direction.....we have no example to show the madmen.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: bobad
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 09:12 AM

Isis- "one of thousands of Islamic militant groups" (NYTimes) beheads another. But by all means lets keep pretending all religions are alike

    — Bill Maher (@billmaher) August 20, 2014

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 08:59 AM

"responsible Islam" can very quickly change to "radical Islamism", given the right conditions.

Yup- just like "responsible Christianiity".

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 04:19 AM

Which is why you constantly try to deflect us to "stuff that Muslims do over the border that's much worse than anything Israel does". Come off it, Keith

I do not do that.
I just contrast the outrage and ask why the difference, when the carnage is so much worse on the other side of Israel.

Gaza is a big issue and I contribute to the discussion, while you people even subvert other discussion to Israel.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 03:24 AM

you all seem to intentionally miss the point, "responsible Islam" can very quickly change to "radical Islamism", given the right conditions.

How do you think the ISIL faction made such swift and rapid advances?
Anyone who follows a religion which is so intolerant of other religions, is an easy convert to radicalism, or at least tacit acceptance of radicalism.

When they are further encouraged by the knife at the throat, there is no further argument.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 08:29 PM

So true, Greg.

Good interview on Newsnight tonight, Kirsty meets Daniel Barenboim. Daniel has ruffled many a feather in Israel over the years (I never agreed with him over his insistence on playing the music of that ultimate antisemite, Wagner, in Israel), but he has more than legitimised his stance by dint of his founding, with Edward Said, of the West-Eastern Divan Orchestra, composed of young musicians from Palestine and Israel and beyond.

Quoth Daniel: The Divan is not a love story, and it is not a peace story. It has very flatteringly been described as a project for peace. It isn't. It's not going to bring peace, whether you play well or not so well. The Divan was conceived as a project against ignorance. A project against the fact that it is absolutely essential for people to get to know the other, to understand what the other thinks and feels, without necessarily agreeing with it. I'm not trying to convert the Arab members of the Divan to the Israeli point of view, and [I'm] not trying to convince the Israelis to the Arab point of view. But I want to – and unfortunately I am alone in this now that Edward died a few years ago – ...create a platform where the two sides can disagree and not resort to knives.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 08:08 PM

Hey, FKWTS is FKWTS, Steve. He can't help himself.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 05:00 PM

Which is why you constantly try to deflect us to "stuff that Muslims do over the border that's much worse than anything Israel does". Come off it, Keith.