What makes a new song a folk song?

Subject: RE: What makes a new song a folk song?
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 04:51 PM

No, Steve, I'm not going by the 1954 definition. I'm going by the definition that people like the Lomaxes, Carl Sandberg, and Cecil Sharp used when they were out collecting songs.

As I just said, you can call something an antique, but only age and use makes a genuine antique. I don't think Tom Paxton, Townes Van Zandt, and other writers of folk-like songs tried to pass them off as folk songs. They knew better.

If it's a good song and other people want to learn it and sing it, it may very well become a folk song in time, but to claim it's a folk song when the ink is still wet is trying to give it a status that it doesn't yet deserve.

Phony. And a bit dishonest.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: What makes a new song a folk song?
From: mg
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 04:38 PM

I don't think it matters what you sing, just if other people pick it up and sing it.

Subject: RE: What makes a new song a folk song?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 04:13 PM

Depends what your definition of 'folk' is. There are many definitions on this forum. Most of the previous posters are going by a definition coined in 1954, but the media might argue with that, and the 'folk' themselves don't use this definition. Have a look at the 'folk' section in HMV. If Mumfords can do it so can you.

A folk song is nowadays anything sung by a folksinger! Are you a folksinger? Hee hee!

Subject: RE: What makes a new song a folk song?
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 04:04 PM

Time, and being taken up by the "folk process," i.e., other people learning it and singing it. And over time, perhaps changing it here and there.

The person who appears at a session or an open mike and announces, "This is a folk song I wrote on the bus the other day," is talking nonsense, and shows a lack knowledge of what folk music really is.

This is like taking a piece of furniture that looks like it's 200 years old to the "Antiques Roadshow" television program and saying, "This is an antique cabinet that I made in my shop last week!" He would be summarily ushered out of the place and find himself and his "antique" sitting on the curb.

One cannot not make an "antique." Nor can one write a "folk song." It may become that eventually. But only time and usage will determine that.

Don't let that stop you from writing songs, though. Just don't put labels on them that they have not yet earned. That's kind of pompous.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: What makes a new song a folk song?
From: michaelr
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 03:20 PM

I'd say that to be a folk song, it should tell a story. Typical singer-songwriter navelgazing (e.g. writing about one's feelings) does not apply.

Subject: RE: What makes a new song a folk song?
From: GUEST,#
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 02:58 PM

Welcome! :-)

Subject: RE: What makes a new song a folk song?
From: Andy7
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 02:54 PM

"Oh, welcome to Mudcat."

Thanks! :-)

Subject: RE: What makes a new song a folk song?
From: GUEST,#
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 02:49 PM

"What makes a new song a folk song?"

Not a blessed thing save age and lots of it. Thus spake the Ghost of 1954. Now stop stirring shite!


Oh, welcome to Mudcat.

Subject: RE: What makes a new song a folk song?
From: mg
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 02:41 PM

lots and lots of people singing it and passing it on and perhaps thinking it is traditional...I would say a song written last week could be and most would not agree with me..but some can go viral now...but i odn't think you can write one with the intention of it being a folk song and just declare it so. Lots and lots of people have to like it and sing it.

Subject: What makes a new song a folk song?
From: Andy7
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 02:39 PM

Hi All, I'm a newcomer to this great site, so apologies in advance, as I'm sure this must often have been discussed before. But I've sometimes wondered, what might make a newly-written song a 'folk song'?

I enjoy writing songs occasionally, just for fun, as I'm sure many of you do. But there are only a couple of these that I might label as 'folk songs' (if anyone asked me); one or two more are just lighthearted, tongue-in-cheek 'pop' songs; and the rest are just, well, songs.

So, the serious question is, what makes a new song a folk song? Should it have a particular kind of tune? Must it carry an important message? Does it need to be about ordinary people's lives?

When we're all singing a well-known folk standard from long ago, we just know it's a folk song. But what about a song written last week, or a year ago? Can that be a folk song? Or does it have to be written by an already accepted folk song writer, or stand the test of time?

Andy7