BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 01 Sep 16 - 08:01 PM

your bigoted yet beloved source.

Right, everyone who holds an opinion that differs from yours is a bigot. You really are an arrogant SOB.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Sep 16 - 07:42 PM

"Widely believed" by who? Your conspiracy theory is months out of date, junked. As it stands, Turkey is still a parliamentary democracy. An over-centralised one for sure, as it has been for years. But that is not the same thing as a dictatorship. Now I know how dearly you want to hang on to every word of your bigoted yet beloved source. But, really, truth is fairly important. And the truth as things stand, as of this very day, is that Turkey is not a dictatorship. Nowhere near. Pick yourself up, dust yourself off and find something else to lie about, why don't you.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 01 Sep 16 - 07:32 PM

Your final sentence betrays the fact that Turkey is not a dictatorship.

The article was written in March of this year, the situation has changed dramatically since with Erdogan assuming dictatorial powers under a "state of emergency" diktat. It is widely believed that the coup attempt was staged on his orders so that he could give himself the new powers that were denied to him by the electorate. This is how dictators operate.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Sep 16 - 07:20 PM

You and Keith really are up shit creek without a paddle. I'm not bullying you. I'm advising both of you, for the good of your health, to acknowledge that your source was incorrect in calling Turkey a dictatorship. The whole world knows it. You don't have to like the Erdogan regime. Personally, I hate it. But the simple, obstinate, unassailable fact is that Turkey is not a dictatorship. Simple. I don't need Guardian articles telling me that it might become one. I know that already. But let's stick to dealing in facts here. Turkey is, simply put, not a dictatorship.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 01 Sep 16 - 07:18 PM

See projection, above, Bubo.

Squawk!

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Sep 16 - 07:11 PM

Your final sentence betrays the fact that Turkey is not a dictatorship.


Now don't get me wrong. I don't like Erdogan. Not one little bit. But the fact is that he is not a dictator. I don't give a flying shite what your "source" says (that lackey of the Israeli regime), what Keith says or what you say. Turkey may well be run by a bunch of unpleasant people. With that I will not disagree. But Turkey is not a dictatorship. If and when Turkey ever becomes a dictatorship, I'll let you know that I agree. You see, you quoted a source that you, er, forgot to read closely enough. She included Turkey among her list of dictatorships. Now she doesn't like Islamic stuff much, as most of the rest of us don't like Islamic stuff (including me). She was directly affected by Islamic stuff in Iran. I suppose we should listen. But it seems to me that she is being taken advantage of by the Israeli regime. Look where your source was from. Hardly neutral. And she was entirely incorrect in stating that Turkey is a dictatorship. Two things from that. Because she made such a basic error, you wonder what else she says that you could rely on. Then there's you two berks, who, instead of acknowledging that she made a mistake, try to insist that she was right all along. Well the whole world knows that Turkey is not a dictatorship. Simple. Not a nice regime. Going that way in some regards, maybe. But NOT a dictatorship. Either you recognise plain facts or we know what kind of people you are. You decide.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 Sep 16 - 07:10 PM

an arrogant, self-righteous bully

See projection, above, Bubo.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 01 Sep 16 - 06:55 PM

Turkey is not a dictatorship. Now if I were you I'd drop this.

That is your opinion only, many others are of a different opinion. You are coming off as an arrogant, self-righteous bully which is your usual MO. You drop it.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 01 Sep 16 - 06:47 PM

Sounds pretty much like what a dictator does.

Erdoğan is well on his way to becoming a dictator, if he isn't one already. Not long after his initial election, Erdoğan's agents embarked on a large and sinister campaign to destroy his political opponents, jailing hundreds—journalists, university rectors, military officers, aid workers—on trumped-up charges and fabricated evidence. (In 2012, I wrote about Erdoğan's campaign for the magazine.) Despite his excesses, Erdoğan remained popular as the Turkish economy rapidly grew. In 2014, having completed three terms as Prime Minister, he ran for President and won. Still, Turkish voters have refused to give him the blank check he desired, and last year turned down his effort to rewrite the Constitution to give himself vast new powers.

The New Yorker

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Sep 16 - 05:06 PM

Let me state a bald fact to you, Keith. Turkey is not a dictatorship. Now if I were you I'd drop this. You really are making a prize twat of yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Sep 16 - 03:49 PM

Steve,
She said Turkey was a dictatorship. It is not. At best she is uninformed. At worst she lied. Take your pick.

Guardian, July 27.
"The Guardian view on Turkey: beware an elected dictatorship"

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 Sep 16 - 02:06 PM

all you have to do is paste this into your every post and you'll be repeating what you've been saying in your posts for years.

Take note, Bubo:


Projection (Psychological)

1) A self-defence mechanism characterised by a person attributing their own issues onto someone or something else as a form of delusion and denial.

2) A way to blame others for ones own negative thoughts by repressing them and then attributing them to someone else. Due to the sorrowful nature of delusion and denial it is very difficult for the target to be able to clarify the reality of the situation.

3) A way to transfer guilt for one's own thoughts, emotions and actions onto another as a way of not admitting your guilt to yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 01 Sep 16 - 10:06 AM

Kudos, Greg, for distilling your posting history into one succinct post - a squawk. Very clever of you as now all you have to do is paste this into your every post and you'll be repeating what you've been saying in your posts for years.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Sep 16 - 10:03 AM

She said Turkey was a dictatorship. It is not. At best she is uninformed. At worst she lied. Take your pick.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 Sep 16 - 09:35 AM

Awwrk! Pieces of eight! Pieces of eight!!

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 01 Sep 16 - 08:38 AM

Try quoting some Chomsky at us.

Plenty quotes by Chomsky as apologist for Pol Pot and downplaying the atrocities of the Khmer Rouge can be found in his books and magazine articles. It is interesting to note that just like our resident apologists for Islamist terrorist groups and murderous Islamic regimes he is fond of describing his detractors as "neo-Nazis and neo-Stalinists", seemingly totally unaware of the irony.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 Sep 16 - 08:37 AM

Awwrk! Pieces of eight! Pieces of eight!!

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Sep 16 - 05:30 AM

Steve,
She said Turkey is a dictatorship. It isn't. A lie which you are now defending.

I merely stated facts about Turkey.

Guardian,
"The Guardian view on Turkey: beware an elected dictatorship"

"Turkey is lurching towards such a state. The arrests of 6,000 people, and the sacking of 2,700 judges, are very bad signs coming from a regime which has already done its best to intimidate civil society through the harassment and persecution of journalists. A purge of the armed forces is inevitable in the wake of a failed military coup, but it was not judges who rose up against the elected government. The attack on the judiciary is especially worrying in the light of Recep Tayyip Erdoğan's contempt for human rights and the rule of law."
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/17/the-guardian-view-on-turkey-beware-an-elected-dictatorship

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Sep 16 - 05:13 AM

Steve,
There is no freedom of speech, free press or opposition parties in Gaza, and no elections.
When Hamas took over, rival politicians who did not flee in time were thrown off tall buildings.
That would discourage anyone from criticising Hamas in Gaza.

When I make an assertion or claim I can back it.
You run away when asked to back your ludicrous assertions and claims.
You claimed that pro-Israel lobbyists have a "cast iron grip" on US politics.
How do they exert that grip except their cause is a popular one, which you also denied!

What is wrong with the pro-Palestinian lobby, except that everyone knows they rely on lying propaganda?

Should a pro-Israel lobby not be allowed? Everyone else has one.
What is your point? What is your case?

You have also run away from responding to this point put to you,
"Returning to the subject of whither the Labour Party, your definition of antisemitism leaves you blind to the real examples of it we have discussed.
It is your denial of that antisemitism, recognised by everyone else, that has kept this thread alive months after it faded from the news.
You repeatedly claimed that the EUMC definitions were discredited, whereas it is yours that are shown to be invalid."

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Aug 16 - 09:05 PM

Turn the record over, Keith. Everyone except you has left all that behind. She said Turkey is a dictatorship. It isn't. A lie which you are now defending. So what's new! 😂
"The people who live there dare not be critical.
That is certain death in Gaza."

Total rubbish. Prove it!

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 Aug 16 - 08:04 PM

Steve,

Cor, she knows more about real life in Gaza than the people who live there!

The people who live there dare not be critical.
That is certain death in Gaza.

And someone really ought to tell her that Turkey is not a dictatorship.

Not having a free and independent press or media, it is not a true democracy either.
Also, anyone who ever spoke out against the regime has been rounded up following the attempted coup.

Steve, you have made wild claims and assertions, and as usual fall silent when asked to substantiate.

How does the Israel lobby exert such influence?
What has it got that lobbyists for others, e.g. the Palestinians, have not got?
Nothing but a popular cause.

Returning to the subject of whither the Labour Party, your definition of antisemitism leaves you blind to the real examples of it we have discussed.
It is your denial of that antisemitism, recognised by everyone else, that has kept this thread alive months after it faded from the news.
You repeatedly claimed that the EUMC definitions were discredited, whereas it is yours that are invalid.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 31 Aug 16 - 07:27 PM

Steve, its kinda like his slander of Black Lives Matter - no facts need apply for Bubo. Spew is all.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Aug 16 - 05:57 PM

Your "sources" are a laugh a minute. Carefully chosen in order to confirm your personal bigotry. Try quoting some Chomsky at us. Go on, bobad, it's all right, honest - he's a Jew, after all! 😂😂😂

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Aug 16 - 05:52 PM

Ah, nothing like the bobad propaganda machine in full flow! It's all true, of course, just like it was all true when he was both bobad and the anonymous troll who told us he needed anonymity so that we'd address the issues and not attack the man. Wow, the sheer integrity of the man! 😂

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 31 Aug 16 - 05:50 PM

Wow, yet another neutral and objective bobad source.

Go ahead and dispute those facts and figures with your sources. I doubt if you will. It's just your usual; any source that disproves my ideology is biased, especially if the authors of that source are Jews.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 31 Aug 16 - 05:41 PM

By 1947, Jewish holdings in "Palestine" amounted to about 463,000 acres. Approximately 45,000 of these acres were acquired from the Mandatory Government; 30,000 were bought from various churches and 387,500 were purchased from Arabs. Analyses of land purchases from 1880 to 1948 show that 73 percent of Jewish plots were purchased from large landowners, not poor fellahin.29 Those who sold land included the mayors of Gaza, Jerusalem and Jaffa. As'ad el­Shuqeiri, a Muslim religious scholar and father of PLO chairman Ahmed Shuqeiri, took Jewish money for his land. Even King Abdullah leased land to the Jews. In fact, many leaders of the Arab nationalist movement

ibid

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Aug 16 - 05:22 PM

Wow, yet another neutral and objective bobad source. You're a joke, mate. Actually, you're two jokes, as we all know. 😂

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 31 Aug 16 - 04:52 PM

Despite the growth in their population, the Arabs continued to assert they were being displaced. The truth is that from the beginning of World War I, part of "Palestine's" land was owned by absentee landlords who lived in Cairo, Damascus and Beirut. About 80 percent of the "Palestinian" Arabs were debt-ridden peasants, semi-nomads and Bedouins.18

Jews actually went out of their way to avoid purchasing land in areas where Arabs might be displaced. They sought land that was largely uncultivated, swampy, cheap and, most important, without tenants. In 1920, Labor Zionist leader David Ben-Gurion expressed his concern about the Arab fellahin, whom he viewed as "the most important asset of the native population." Ben-Gurion said "under no circumstances must we touch land belonging to fellahs or worked by them." He advocated helping liberate them from their oppressors. "Only if a fellah leaves his place of settlement," Ben-Gurion added, "should we offer to buy his land, at an appropriate price."19

It was only after the Jews had bought all of the available uncultivated land that they began to purchase cultivated land. Many Arabs were willing to sell because of the migration to coastal towns and because they needed money to invest in the citrus industry.20

MYTH: "Jews stole Arab land"

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Aug 16 - 03:04 PM

"You mean just like in the 19th century westward expansion in the United States of America
No, I mean the land grabbing that stared with Israel's independence and has continued ever since
Fekin' eeejt
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 31 Aug 16 - 02:49 PM

"The Jewish people are not responsible for the land-grabbing or the massacres, or the murderous incursions.... the Israeli regime is."

More anti-Semitic tropes from the usual suspect. If it was written on paper the only good use for it would be to wipe your arse.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 31 Aug 16 - 02:45 PM

A TV event not to be missed especially by those who swallow the phony "Palestinian" narrative and outright lies perpetrated by the "Palestinian" propaganda machine.


Las Vegas, August 30 – A duo of prominent stage magicians known for their outspoken stances on political issues and for their vocal support of skepticism toward many widely-held beliefs have announced they will produce a once-off revival of their Emmy-nominated TV show arguing for skepticism of those notions, with the special episode focused on the disingenuous, distorted, and outright false claims behind the Palestinian national movement.

Penn Jillette and Raymond Teller, one of the most famous magic acts in history, issued a press release today to the effect that "Penn & Teller's 'Bulls**t!'" would come back for a special one-time, two-hour episode to examine the common misconceptions, myths, and falsehoods peddled by advocates for the Palestinian cause, aiming to demonstrate that support for such a cause keeps millions of people stateless and miserable, perpetuates violent conflict, discourages a peaceful resolution of Arab-Israeli differences, and draws precious international resources away from where they are actually needed.

"I have to say our biggest regret, in terms of the topics we took on in our show, was not devoting attention to the Palestinian cause," said Jillette, referring to the seven-year run on the Showtime cable channel that ended in 2010. "Teller and I shifted our emphasis when the run ended, but we've always had a nagging sense that we needed to go back and tackle this topic. It's a source of tremendous bulls**t, after all."

Specifically, Penn and Teller aim to shine a critical lens on the notion of Palestinian nationhood, the historicity of Palestinian claims to indigenous status, Palestinian denial of a Jewish connection to the Holy Land, the misleading application of terminology such as "occupation" and "genocide," and numerous other features of Palestinian advocacy. "We're not even going to spend a lot of time on the violence and intimidation that characterize so much of pro-Palestinian rhetoric, especially on college campuses, but that will get a mention, because it has to," explained Jillette, to nods from Teller. "Millions of people are walking around with this stupid image of Palestinians as these poor native victims of imperialism, but it's a load of bullsh**t, and the more it spreads, the farther the world gets from the possibility of resolving this conflict peacefully."

Whereas the original series episodes ran 28-30 minutes each, the special revival episode will run four times as long. "There's enough material to make it ten hours if we wanted, and we wouldn't cover the same ground at any point," noted Jillette. "But that would be overkill, so we're going to cap it at 2 hours."


Penn & Teller To Revive 'Bulls**t!' To Debunk Palestinian Claims

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 31 Aug 16 - 11:31 AM

"The Jewish people are not responsible for the land-grabbing or the massacres, or the murderous incursions.... the Israeli regime is."

You mean just like in the 19th century westward expansion in the United States of America - "The American settlers were not responsible for the land-grabbing or the massacres, or the murderous incursions.... the American Government/regime was." Which of course is wrong, personal greed of the population and pressure of population prompted the expansion. The 1776 War of Independence was not fought over "Taxation" and "Representation" - they served as the convenient excuses - the war was fought to break the 1754 treaty that the British signed with the Native Nations that limited westward expansion - a treaty that the British honoured. The War of 1812 was another similar opportunistic land grab where at the end of hostilities the British honoured the terms of the treaty and the American Government did not, but nobody at the time could be bothered with objections - after 21 years of war Britain and Europe wanted peace.

When it comes to Palestine {That is the League of Nations Mandated Territory of 1923}, European Jews had been settling there since around 1847, there were also Jews who had been resident in the Territory for at least 800 years {Hebron was a largely Jewish city}. All land settled by the European arrivals was bought from the Ottoman rulers, who generally sold land that they thought was worthless, modern farming methods related to drainage and irrigation altered that and where land couldn't be farmed it was given over to industry. Most of the land was owned not by individuals but by the Ottoman administration - examination of maps shows this clearly - When the Mandate was established - what had been unassigned "government land" under the Ottomans became unassigned "government land" under the British Mandate Authorities. Throughout the period of the Mandate parcels of this land was sold off. The only recognised borders of Palestine are those of 1923, there are no officially recognised borders for Israel or any Two-State solution primarily because in 1947 the Arabs of Palestine refused the Two-State Solution offered by the UN. Under the terms of the 1923 Mandate anybody could settle anywhere in Palestine, only Arabs could settle in what was then called Transjordan. To settle all you required was the purchase price of the land.

The Arabs of Palestine basically found themselves in two camps, one backed by those who ruled Transjordan who wanted to take over the lot, a second group headed up by Yasser Arafat's Uncle, the self-styled Grand Mufti of Jerusalem wanted to expel the Jews, take over what they had built up and make it into his own fiefdom. He was responsible for the attacks made on the Jews of Palestine by the Arabs of Palestine from 1920 onwards.

Asked before and I will ask again: How many rockets/missiles have been fired from Gaza or the West Bank into Israel in the last month? (Think you'll find that the answer to that is NONE) Now tell me how many Israeli attacks have there been on Gaza or in the West Bank in the last month? (Think you'll find that the answer to that is also NONE) - Spot the correlation? Since May 1948 the Arabs of the region have been unable to - they still chose war over peace - and they still lose - The Israelis cannot be blamed for the intransigence of the Arabs of Palestine, or more correctly their leaders, who have deliberately kept the people they are supposed to be responsible for looking after in poverty and a state of hopelessness - charity cases to be presented to the international community on demand. Remember the Israelis took in more Jewish "refugees" than the Arabs took in Arab "refugees" big difference being that the Israelis allowed their refugees to integrate, the Arabs shut theirs up in Refugee Camps on land belonging to the self same refugees and used them as political pawns and a convenient income stream.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Aug 16 - 09:44 AM

Cor, she knows more about real life in Gaza than the people who live there! 😂😂😂 Unsupportable nonsense. And someone really ought to tell her that Turkey is not a dictatorship. Still, why would a hired lackey for the Israeli regime lets facts get in the way! 😂😂😂

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 31 Aug 16 - 08:42 AM

"The Western world must support Israel; the ONLY free and democratic country in the Middle East. The Western world must support groups that follow secular enlightenment values, and must openly condemn those leaders and groups that do not.

I support Israel and condemn her enemies; the enemies of humanity and freedom; the enemies such as Hamas, Fatah, Hezbollah, Islamic Republic of Iran, the dictatorship regimes of Syria and Turkey, The Arab League, including Saudi Arabia, Al Qaeda and ISIS. If we let Israel succumb to their forces, it will be a disaster for the rest of the western world.

I support Israel because it is a free and democratic state; a true Liberal state where 30% of its population is atheist, far more than the secular Ireland. In Israel you can freely change your religion or go to the ONLY nude beach in the Middle East without being harassed by police. Israelis had another successful Gay Pride Parade which took place in Tel Aviv in June and was voted BEST gay city in the world in 2011! I am sure some supporters of the Palestinian and Iranian regimes would like to tell the world when next gay pride parade under their sharia law will take place ?

That which comes out of Israel is kind, humanitarian, hopeful. This canary is a beacon of light and a breath of fresh air in an otherwise dark, suffocating, and terrorizing Middle East."

Shabnam Assadollahi: Why I support Israel!

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Aug 16 - 03:38 AM

"You really are going insane aren't you!"
I should read your own Islamophobic rants if I were you.
You are saying about Muslims exactly what the Nazis said about the Jews to give themselves an excuse to exterminate them - the only difference being the ethnicity of the victims.
You have no interest in the well-being of the Jewish People - you wouldn't have painted targets on them by equating them with Israeli State terrorism if you had.
Your support is for the policies of a regime that has been compared, by Jews and non Jews, with that of the Nazis - a policy of mass murder, of attempted ethnic cleansing, of land grabbing and mass destruction of homes, schools, hospitals..... and worst of all, a war against impoverished civilians on a massive scale.
That is not "Jewish" - not by the standards of the Jews I count among my friends.
You come onto this forum in your cowardly anonymity and accuse everyone who criticises the monotheistic policy of the Israeli regime of being "Antisemitic", yet your own attitude of blaming the Jews for the war crimes being committed by the sadistic crowd running Israel is as Antisemitic as it comes.
The Jewish people are not responsible for the land-grabbing or the massacres, or the murderous incursions.... the Israeli regime is.
If you can't recognise that describing opponents of extreme right wing policies of being either "Antisemites" or "Self-hating Jews" is evil and dangerous - you are a vicious, stupid man.
If you don't recognise that your massive rants against Muslims as a whole, against their culture, their religion, their way of life, is raw racist bigotry no different than that directed at the Jewish people - you are a very dangerous man.
Go read the hate-filled diatribes you hae trawled up from extremist sites, then compare them to the similar things that were being said about the Jewish People in 1930s Germany - there really is no difference, apart from the people they are aimed at - then it was The Jews, now it is the Muslims.
You really should be ashamed of yourself - particularly if you come from a Jewish background
When the Holocaust survivor family I knew in Manchester back in the 60s told me "Never again, not to anybody", you were exactly the type of person they had in mind.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 Aug 16 - 03:38 AM

Steve, you have made wild claims and assertions, and as usual fall silent when asked to substantiate.

How does the Israel lobby exert such influence?
What has it got that lobbyists for others, e.g. the Palestinians, have not got?
Nothing but a popular cause.

Now, your definition of antisemitism leaves you blind to the real examples of it we have discussed.
It is your denial of that antisemitism, recognised by everyone else, that has kept this thread alive months after it faded from the news.
You repeatedly claimed that the EUMC definitions were discredited, whereas it is yours that are invalid.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 30 Aug 16 - 09:59 PM

African American leaders who represent over 9 million people have rejected the anti-Israel stance of the Movement for Black Lives, which supports the BDS Movement while accusing Israel of being an apartheid state and committing genocide against the Palestinian people.

JOL

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Aug 16 - 08:12 PM

Jaysus, Greg, this thread is beyond tedious. Two clueless bigots, both yesterday's men (are they actually men??), getting more and more desperate. Ask yourself whether they're worth it. Are we mad or what! 😂

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Aug 16 - 07:13 PM

Bubo, you really ARE two years old! You think that saying things over and over makes them true! Still no facts presented, just your own plus Pruden's bullshit.

True to form. And now I'm done with you,asshole.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 30 Aug 16 - 05:18 PM

The Black Rights Movement is glaringly anti-Semitic, take your blinders off.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Aug 16 - 10:09 AM

Bubo, your boy Pruden is a disgusting piece of work. His opinion piece cites no facts, no evidence and is a smear on Black Lives Matter - just the sort of tactics you revel in.

From the article you reference (emphasis mine):

Black Lives Matter, in protesting the shooting of young black men by police (and in the case of one or two of the young black men, they were asking for it)

I don't know which of you is the larger sack of crap.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 30 Aug 16 - 09:19 AM

The Black Rights Movement is glaringly anti-Semitic, take your blinders off.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Aug 16 - 08:52 AM

Bubo, attempting to label the Black Lives Matter movement with antisemitism is even more disgusting that your usual vomit.

Wesley Pruden is a neo-Confederate racist, and his spew has consistently anti-Black since he first signed on with Sun Myung Moon.

Not surprising that you would have the same twisted view that he does.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 30 Aug 16 - 08:34 AM

Islamophobic rantings (particularly Bobad's. on the other Labour thread)

You really are going insane aren't you!

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 30 Aug 16 - 08:27 AM

"Between 1939 and 1945," writes Joseph Telushkin in the Tablet, an online magazine, "one-third of the Jewish people in the world were murdered. That was genocide. And since Israel took control of the West Bank and Gaza in 1967 [as a result of a] war of self-defense, the Arab population in these two areas has gone from just over a million to 4 million. That is not genocide. It's a population explosion."

Facts are stubborn and persistent, but so are those who deny, manipulate and abuse them. Black Lives Matter, in protesting the shooting of young black men by police (and in the case of one or two of the young black men, they were asking for it) was a positive thing, but the movement now is trying to turn the rage against injustice to destructive rage against Israel. It's an old phenomenon. Blame the Jews: They're rich (most of them own department stores) and live the life of Riley, so why not?

Until now the Jew-baiters tried to camouflage their game, being careful to say they weren't talking about the Jews, just the Zionists, the Jews who wanted to build and protect a Jewish homeland. When a black student at Harvard tried this line on Martin Luther King, he was having none of it. "When people criticize Zionists," he told him, "they mean Jews. You're talking anti-Semitism."

Black Lives Matter and the endless war against the Jews

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Aug 16 - 04:30 AM

"How does the Israel lobby exert such influence?"
Keith - you've told us six times on this thread that "This is not about Israel"
Unless it suits you, it seems
Personally, as a non Christian, Jew or Muslim - I find Keith's and Bobad's Islamophobic rantings (particularly Bobad's. on the other Labour thread), every bit as hate-filled as anything the Nazis ever managed to come up with.
It is extreme Anti-humanity directed at Muslims rather than Jews and is just as lethal to those it is aimed at.
Israel is gradually arriving at the Nazi figures reached by the Holocaust, though it is taking longer to get there.
A curse on all hate-filled religious bigotry, no matter what denomination is used as an excuse.
Want thos facts about chemical warfare against the gazans and Bedoiuins again Keith
Plenty more where they came from.
Scumbags all
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Aug 16 - 04:11 AM

Steve,
. Quite simply, in the US the shrewd politician does not brief against Israel unless he wants to lose his influence at best or his job at worst.

How does the Israel lobby exert such influence?
What has it got that lobbyists for others, e.g. the Palestinians, have not got?
Nothing but a popular cause.

Now, your definition of antisemitism leaves you blind to the real examples of it we have discussed.
It is your denial of that antisemitism, recognised by everyone else, that has kept this thread alive months after it faded from the news.
You repeatedly claimed that the EUMC definitions were discredited, whereas it is yours that are invalid.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Aug 16 - 09:40 PM

Hear, Hear!

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Aug 16 - 06:59 PM

I said nothing about AIPAC worshippers or a Jewish mafia. Do your homework. AIPAC is the main player in the US pro-Israel lobby. AIPAC contains many members who are not Jews. I call it the pro-Israel lobby because it is pro the Israeli regime. I do not call it the Jewish lobby and never have, and if you look hard enough you will find posts of mine on this board that admonish people for using that term. That is not because I'm avoiding anything. It is because pro-Israel lobby is an accurate term, whereas Jewish lobby is wide of the mark. It implies support of an ethnic group by fellow members of that group, which is incorrect on both counts. It is a political lobby, nothing to do with ethnicity. I am very pleased to be able to explain this to you, bobad. Now go and check it all out for yourself for once. As for you, Keith, the pro-Israel lobby in the US is right up there with the big corporations and the NRA in terms of undue influence on politics. Quite simply, in the US the shrewd politician does not brief against Israel unless he wants to lose his influence at best or his job at worst. Now when I say undemocratic, the electorate do not vote in the polling booths for AIPAC, the NRA or for big oil companies. Yet no politician would dare suggest banning gun ownership to save lives, putting two dollars per gallon on gas prices to pay for environmental damage or making military aid to Israel conditional on taking part in genuine peace talks with compromise to the fore. It isn't done and it can't be done. Israel never has to give one inch, and it's almost all because of the power of that lobby in the US. Get real, Keith. You'll deny yourself to death one of these days. Come into the real world.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Aug 16 - 09:44 AM

OK Steve, so tell us, if it is true, how Israel lobbyists exert "a cast iron grip" on the US when other lobbyists can just be dismissed.
That was your assertion.
Just for once, justify your claim.

Your latest assertion, that the cause is not even popular, makes it even harder to believe.