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BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II

Steve Shaw 07 Feb 17 - 10:20 AM
Dave the Gnome 07 Feb 17 - 10:29 AM
Keith A of Hertford 07 Feb 17 - 10:31 AM
Steve Shaw 07 Feb 17 - 10:37 AM
Steve Shaw 07 Feb 17 - 10:38 AM
Dave the Gnome 07 Feb 17 - 10:44 AM
Keith A of Hertford 07 Feb 17 - 10:46 AM
Dave the Gnome 07 Feb 17 - 10:46 AM
Dave the Gnome 07 Feb 17 - 10:53 AM
Raggytash 07 Feb 17 - 11:05 AM
Raggytash 07 Feb 17 - 11:07 AM
Dave the Gnome 07 Feb 17 - 11:12 AM
bobad 07 Feb 17 - 11:17 AM
Jim Carroll 07 Feb 17 - 11:25 AM
Teribus 07 Feb 17 - 11:27 AM
Dave the Gnome 07 Feb 17 - 11:31 AM
Dave the Gnome 07 Feb 17 - 11:37 AM
Steve Shaw 07 Feb 17 - 12:07 PM
Keith A of Hertford 07 Feb 17 - 12:10 PM
Teribus 07 Feb 17 - 12:13 PM
Dave the Gnome 07 Feb 17 - 12:16 PM
Keith A of Hertford 07 Feb 17 - 12:19 PM
Raggytash 07 Feb 17 - 12:25 PM
Jim Carroll 07 Feb 17 - 12:36 PM
Jim Carroll 07 Feb 17 - 01:02 PM
Dave the Gnome 07 Feb 17 - 01:26 PM
Raggytash 07 Feb 17 - 01:40 PM
Jim Carroll 07 Feb 17 - 02:39 PM
Keith A of Hertford 07 Feb 17 - 02:49 PM
Jim Carroll 07 Feb 17 - 02:56 PM
Steve Shaw 07 Feb 17 - 03:15 PM
Dave the Gnome 07 Feb 17 - 03:55 PM
Jim Carroll 07 Feb 17 - 04:05 PM
akenaton 07 Feb 17 - 05:00 PM
Steve Shaw 07 Feb 17 - 05:18 PM
Greg F. 07 Feb 17 - 06:14 PM
bobad 07 Feb 17 - 06:57 PM
Jim Carroll 07 Feb 17 - 07:28 PM
Raggytash 07 Feb 17 - 07:33 PM
Steve Shaw 07 Feb 17 - 07:41 PM
Steve Shaw 07 Feb 17 - 07:52 PM
Keith A of Hertford 08 Feb 17 - 04:13 AM
Jim Carroll 08 Feb 17 - 05:10 AM
Keith A of Hertford 08 Feb 17 - 09:57 AM
Dave the Gnome 08 Feb 17 - 10:05 AM
Keith A of Hertford 08 Feb 17 - 10:07 AM
Keith A of Hertford 08 Feb 17 - 10:13 AM
Steve Shaw 08 Feb 17 - 10:14 AM
Keith A of Hertford 08 Feb 17 - 10:17 AM
Raggytash 08 Feb 17 - 10:21 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 10:20 AM

"I agree Raggytash but surely the answer is to open a new thread on the beauties of the English countryside."

Oi, Connemara's in IRELAND!! Racism!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 10:29 AM

Fair enough, Teribus. You have made it quite clear that it is your belief and cannot back it up with any facts. I can live with that and have often said the same. As long as we know it is just a belief rather than a hard fact we can work round it.

I must say I love this though. but there again you very rarely ever say anything and obviously believe very little. If I rarely say anything then why do you argue with me so often? :-)

Now, back from the ridiculous to the sublime. It is my belief that the three peaks area of Yorkshire is one of the finest scenic locations in the country. And that comes from a Lancastrian! There are prettier places and there are grander places but none that I know of have such diversity in such a compact area.

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 10:31 AM

You have still not answered the question. Do you believe that Labour party members are more likely to be antisemitic than anyone else? It really is a simple question.

It is not as simple as the questions that Steve and Jim refuse to answer.
How would I know if they are more likely to be anti-Semitic or not?
All I have to go on is the fact that Labour itself believes it has a serious problem, and who am I to argue with them?

Jim,
"No I am not!"
You have accused me of antisemitism - yes you are


I have not Jim.
I just pointed out to you that comparing Israel to the Nazis, which you do, is anti-Semitic by the most widely used definition of it.

Then you are more stupid than you appear to be - Bobad does it all the time, so does bBearded Bruce, MtheGM did it, and numerous others, regularly

Then it will be easy for you to provide an example.

The Israeli Minister of Justice said it publicly and you supported her doing so.....


I did not, and I do not accept that she did.

A reliable witnesses's SUBSTANTIATED EVIDENCE may be accepted or rejected alongside all evidence but never at any time would an unsubstantiated accusation be ever be taken seriously -

These are witnesses who say they have seen and heard anti-Semitism within Labour.
Such a witness statement is hard evidence for a court, and several would be proof beyond reasonable doubt for any intelligent jusry.
Case proven.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 10:37 AM

I made the severe error of doing the Three Peaks in a brand-new pair of boots that I'd bought the day before. We couldn't hang about either as we'd decided to do it on a gloomy day in late October. It took me five pints in a pub in Settle before the pain started to subside. Pendle and surrounds are one of my favourite areas. Only half an hour out of Bury up t'M66 an' all. All my dad's side come from round theer.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 10:38 AM

I haven't refused to answer it. I'm still thinking about it. I'll let you know. I'm a bit busy 'til November though.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 10:44 AM

Never done the three peaks all in one go. Did do the round of Kinder some years back from Hayfield - That was a killer as well. 25 miles and up and down Kinder Scout 4 times! Called in the Sportsman pub near the start of the mass trespass when we had finished and had drunk our pints before the barman had made it back with our change! One really odd thing on that walk. We started about 7:30 am and as we made our way up the Snake path there were 2 blokes coming down dressing in 1930s hiking gear. Tweeds, shirts and ties an all. Very odd.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 10:46 AM

Dave,
You have made it quite clear that it is your belief and cannot back it up with any facts.

You have had lots of facts.
Numerous suspensions.
The statement last week from Baroness Royale.
Statements from numerous prominent people including Sadiq Khan, Tom Watson, the current and former leaders of Scottish labour, and the "entire NEC" which includes Corbyn himself.

Labour has a serious problem with anti-Semitism, while other parties do not.
That is a fact, and is the full answer to your question.

Do you believe they are all lying Dave?
Do you have any evidence to justify dismissing any of them Dave?


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 10:46 AM

Sorry - they were not dressing. They were already dressed. If they had have been dressing that would have been even stranger.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 10:53 AM

I have already said...

Oh, sorry, forget it was more than 2 posts ago.

I have already said that I believe that Labour does have a problem with antisemitism. I do not believe the problem is worse than any in any other group of people. You have said specifically that the problem is not the Labour party itself and you will not say whether you believe that labour party member are more prone to antisemitism than any other group of people. The only facts that you come out with is that some senior people within the Labour party have admitted that there is a problem and that they are working towards addressing it. Do you think that is a bad thing?

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 11:05 AM

Hmmmmmmmm So Momentum has FLOODED into the Labour party has it.

At the last count Momentum had 20,000 members.

The Labour Party 500,000.

I make that 4%, IF all 20,000 members FLOODED into Labour.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 11:07 AM

The Connemara is exceptionally beautiful and extremely varied. I would recommend it to anyone............. well nearly everyone.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 11:12 AM

Here is some more food for thought for you. Almost half of Britons hold antisemitic view, poll suggests .

Amongst lots of interesting facts and figures there are some gems. Including It also found that one in four (25%) Britons believed that Jews chase money more than other British people, a figure which rose to 39% of those participants who identified themselves as Ukip voters.

Now, I am sure people can so the sums but just how many people were suspended over allegations of antisemitism? Was it 50? Tell you what, I'll be kind and double that. No, hang on, Ill multiply by 10 and make it nice round 500. There are, what, 500,000 current members. 500 as a percentage of 500,000 anyone? Is it 39% like UKIP? Or 25% like the general public? Sorry, you will have to help me out here...

:D tG


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: bobad
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 11:17 AM

Almost half of Britons hold antisemitic view, poll suggests

Doesn't surprise me in the least.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 11:25 AM

"You have had lots of facts."
None - and indicative of that fact is that once again you refuse to produce them here
You said the Jewish victims of the antisemitism refused to give dtails so how can we possinly have had them
Suspensions are inevitable when accusations are made - where are your facts
Why do yo persist in this Keith - haven't you humiliated yourself enough with your dishonesty?
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Teribus
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 11:27 AM

You rarely say anything, but you do ask a lot of questions, I answer them.

Oh and by the way you did ask what I BELIEVED. I detailed the facts that support that belief.

Corbyn Leader? Fact
Corbyn regards Hamas and Hezbollah as friends and is on record as stating such. Fact
Corbyn supports BDS Fact
Labour's NEC Commissioned an Inquiry into anti-Semitism in OULC. Fact
Baroness Royall stated that although not "institutionalised" anti-Semitism within the OULC did need to be addressed urgently and immediately. Fact
Royall's Inquiry prompted Labour to commission a far wider reaching Inquiry under Shami Chakrabarti. Fact
Labour's NEC fail to implement Baroness Royall's recommendations. Fact

Care to dispute any of those Facts Gnome? They've certainly unsettled and worried a number of Labour Party Members particularly Jewish members - another inconvenient Fact for you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 11:31 AM

It is a worry and one that we should be ashamed of, bobad. Particularly considering that this survey has rates of antisemitism going down in other countries. There are factors like the number of Muslim residents who, whether we like it or not, are more likely to be antisemitic. The reasons for that are a different argument.

What it does show though is that while the other parties and the country in general do not seem to be acknowledging the issue, the Labour party is already addressing it. So, once again, we come to the point I keep trying to make. The Labour party membership are no more antisemitic than anyone else. Considerably less so if the figures add up. I know it is futile trying to get that point across though so we may as well stick to more pleasant topics like the Yorkshire dales, holidays and botany.

:D tG


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 11:37 AM

I did ask what you believe, Teribus and, to your credit, you gave a good measured answer. It is still just a belief though and does not measure up to the facts produced in the surveys I have linked.

No, I do not dispute any of your facts and there is no real need to embolden the word. None of them indicate that the Labour party have a bigger issue than anyone else though do they. In fact, they show that the Labour party are already addressing the issue while everyone else seems to have difficulty even acknowledging that antisemitism is a problem in general.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 12:07 PM

Er, look a little more closely, Dave. Corbyn, in front of a Home Affairs Select Committee, expressed regret for calling Hamas and Hezbollah friends, regretted his choice of words and giving the explanation that he was trying to be inclusive at the time, encouraging reconciliation. Issuing the "fact" Teribus-style is to intend to mislead by omission. If you leave it at the point where Corbyn called them friends and omitted the stuff I've just given you, you may be misled into thinking that that is still his opinion. Which it isn't. I think it's rather important, and far more honest, to give the full story. I know how inconvenient that can be when it flies in the face of a demonising agenda. Maybe I'll get back to the other stuff later. We had the most gorgeous rainbow here half an hour ago. Chicken and chips for tea!


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 12:10 PM

Dave,
. I do not believe the problem is worse than any in any other group of people.

Why do you believe that?
No other party has had to deal with that issue. No other party has had all those complaints from within. You are in denial Dave.

senior people within the Labour party have admitted that there is a problem and that they are working towards addressing it. Do you think that is a bad thing?

No, but those people also say that Labour is not working towards addressing it. That is a bad thing.

We heard it from Labour Peer Baroness Royale just days ago, and she was appointed by Corbyn to lead an enquiry into it and produce a report which she says has been ignored.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Teribus
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 12:13 PM

"I do not dispute any of your facts and there is no real need to embolden the word. None of them indicate that the Labour party have a bigger issue than anyone else though do they" - DtG

"None of them indicate that the Labour party have a bigger issue than anyone else" - You mean ignoring the FACT that all the facts you accept are ALL specific to the LABOUR PARTY.

Going back to your YouGov Survey article in the Guardian - what was the percentage given of Jews questioned who no longer felt safe in the UK? Jewish Students do not feel safe attending University Labour Club debates and meetings - WHY? Because they are generally open and Labour Youth and Students vote to support BDS as does the Party Leader. Intimidation, racism and misogyny at Constituency Labour Parties. And they all seem to be at ones where dissent is shown to the Leader - Coincidence?


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 12:16 PM

Why do you believe that?

Because nearly half of people in the UK display antisemitic leanings and it is nowhere near that in the Labour party. It is no so much that no other party has had to deal with it. It is that no other party has even looked yet. Do keep up Keith.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 12:19 PM

Jim,
You said the Jewish victims of the antisemitism refused to give dtails so how can we possinly have had them

They gave details to the party for them to deal with it.

We know for a fact that Labour has a serious problem because of statements from numerous prominent people including Sadiq Khan, Tom Watson, the current and former leaders of Scottish Labour, and the "entire NEC" which includes Corbyn himself.

Why do yo persist in this Keith

Only because you persist in denying it!


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 12:25 PM

In May I'm taking a party of 10 on a week long tour of the Dingle peninsula. Another beautiful area.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 12:36 PM

"I detailed the facts that support that belief."
ow you are doin a Keith - if Labour is guilty of the accusations made against it what form does that antisemitism take and why is nobody prepared to describe it?

Corbyn Leader? Fact
Smokescrewen
Corbyn regards Hamas and Hezbollah as friends and is on record as stating such. Fact
No, but even if it was, that does NO mean there is a problem of antisemitism within the Labour Party
Corbyn said he regarded Hezbolah "friends" (around the time Britain was describing Assad as an ally and was still propping up the Qaddafi regime with arms and political support)
He has since withdrawn that description, saying he regretted making itit   
Corbyn supports BDS Fact
Good on him - BDS is supported by all religius denominaqtions and shades of political thought - Jews and no Jews alike - throughout the world
Labour's NEC Commissioned an Inquiry into anti-Semitism in OULC. Fact
Baroness Royall stated that although not "institutionalised" anti-Semitism within the OULC did need to be addressed urgently and immediately. Fact
And it was - it is not an indication that there was a majort problem or in anyway more of a phenomenon in the Laboutr Party - just that what there was needed to be dealt with.
Last March, the Tory Party was accused of having a problem with islamophobia - as a response, they appointed a racist as foreign secretary.
Royall's Inquiry prompted Labour to commission a far wider reaching Inquiry under Shami Chakrabarti. Fact
See above
Labour's NEC fail to implement Baroness Royall's recommendations. Fact
The enquiries that were hald found there to be no significant problem - fact
All smoke and mirrors - totally meaningless.
We are still waiting for the British Muslim's demand for an enquiry to be responded to - that we should all live that long!!!
There will be no proven problem with antisemitism in the Labour Party until it is described and quantified - until such time, it will remain merely unsubstantiated accusations.
Jim Carroll

A Jewish view of Labour antisemitism
AS A JEWISH LABOUR MEMBER, I'M SICK OF ANTI-SEMITISM BEING USED AS A POLITICAL WEAPON AGAINST JEREMY CORBYN
Michael Segalov
For years now I've travelled across the UK to report from far-right, fascist and neo-Nazi rallies. I've seen the real threat that faces Jews in the country, those who wear swastikas as badges of honour. Where was your concern for my community then?
It's become an all too regular occurrence, waking up to headlines reporting that anti-Semitism in the Labour party is now an endemic problem, and that bad feeling against Jewish people in the party is on an upward trajectory.
As a Jewish Labour Party member, they are stories that should have me alarmed. I know from experience just how dangerous anti-Semitism can really be: vast swathes of my ancestors were lost to the murderous hands of the Nazis, and observant Jewish friends of mine have been harassed and attacked on British streets. I've read the slurs, faced the trolls, had neo-Nazis shout abuse in my face.
And yet it's not just anger against bigots that hits as I scan story after story, but frustration towards those trying to use an all too real threat facing my community for their own political gain. Since Corbyn's election as Labour leader, unsupportive MPs, campaigning groups and journalists have been desperate to paint him and the movement who support him as anti-Semitic fanatics, despite knowing it's really not the case.
I could tell you about my own experiences, how I've never experienced or witnessed anti-Semitism inside the party – but that's just what I've seen, non-Jewish defenders of my religion will claim. My experiences, and those of countless other Corbyn-supporting Jewish members who I've spoken to, aren't reflective of what's really going on, apparently.
Just a few months ago, I found myself sat in the Channel 4 News studio, tasked with discussing anti-Semitism under Corbyn. Sat opposite me was John Woodcock MP, desperate to tell me it's the "hard-left" who are "associated [with] Soviet Russia" with anti-Semitic views infiltrating the party who were responsible for stirring up hatred.
Now, we only need look at the most high-profile of cases to see that anti-Semitism is by no means a product of Corbyn's supporters. Naz Shah, MP for Bradford West, was rightly suspended for sharing anti-Semitic posts on Facebook, not a Corbynite but a backer of Yvette Cooper in the last leadership election. Ken Livingstone, similarly sanctioned for his remarks about Hitler, has been a party grandee for decades. An insurgent? I think not.
Woodcock pointed me towards "a rise in anti-Semitic incidents" within the party, without having a single statistic or figure to back it up. It's an answer I hear time and time again, and for those of us – Jewish or otherwise – committed to fighting anti-Semitism, enough is enough.
It's tiring and it's frustrating, but moreover it's frankly dangerous.
For years now I've travelled across the UK to report from far-right, fascist and neo-Nazi rallies, and the counter-demonstrations that take place alongside. I've seen the real threat that faces Jews in the country, those who profess hatred for Jews and our religion, who wear swastikas as badges of honour, who'll salute like a Nazi in front of your face. Where was your concern for my community then?
It's not just the distinct absence of those MPs in Labour who now claim to be at the forefront of the fight against anti-Jewish prejudice that's striking, but the presence of those they now claim to be British Jewry's biggest threat.
It's the left, and Corbyn's supporters, who've put their bodies on the line time and time again to protect us from these racist organisations.
That's why these cries of anti-Semitism make a mockery of a real and present danger. Corbyn's commitment to fighting discrimination and prejudice has been well documented for decades. His supporters are those who've stood alongside him. Accusing these people now of peddling prejudice is nothing but political point-scoring at its worst. It undermines real hatred, and waters down the impact of calling out anti-Semitism when it rears its ugly head.
I'm not saying Labour members haven't experienced anti-Semitism inside the Labour Party, and of course, a progressive movement like Labour should hold itself to higher standards than other organisations. Those few who blindly label all incidents of anti-Semitism as anti-Corbyn slander and restrictions on critiquing Israel need to listen to the voices of victims and let conversations about Judaism and Israel be led by Jewish members: we are here and we know how to speak,
This isn't to say I don't value the concern, but I want to make a few things perfectly clear. Anti-Semitism is not a problem particular to Labour; using the words "Judaism" and "Israel" interchangeably is just as (if not more) common on the right as on the left.
Oppression, discrimination and Jewish identity are complex; the relationship between our religion and the state of Israel is constantly debated; disagreements will happen inside our community. Let us lead these discussions. Don't quickly take sides simply to advance your faction, angle or personal interests.
And if you're truly concerned about fighting racism and anti-Semitism, I look forward to seeing you stand alongside us in meetings and on the streets.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 01:02 PM

"They gave details to the party for them to deal with it."
You've given this excuse before Keith and followed it with your antisemitic suggestion that they did not describe that antisemitism publicly because of their love of the party
It is antisemitic to suggest that Jewish people would put the interests of a political organisation before that of their people
You said you had produced plenty of facts - you lied
Now you are back to your 'Jewish pact of silence' claim - make up your mind - which story are you going to stick with?.
Dig away - you'll get to Australia eventually
You don't know Labour has a serious problem - we only know Labour has treated the accusations seriously and held enquiries - a million miles from what is happening on the opposite bench in Parliament.
Put up your examples and nobody will be able to deny them - if they are substantiated.
You dishonest claimed you had already put them up - stop lying and put them up - that's what you would have to do in a court
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 01:26 PM

I loved the Dingle peninsula when we were there. Only spent a shot time there but even the journey was magical. I am sure you will be able to name the places I forgot so I will not look them up. We were staying in Finuge, hometown of Sean McCarthy, just outside Listowel. I cannot recal the full journey but I know we stopped briefly in Tralee before crossing a high mountain pass to drop down to Dingle itself. The view across the bay to Blasket (?) was stunning. After a stop in Dingle we headed off and followed a more roundabout route to get back.

They had a Sean McCarthy festival while we were in Finuge and I got to meet his widow! Part of the festivities were in the village hall which was dry but had a pub across the road. The number of people nipping out for 5 or 10 minutes at a time was quite phenomenal :-) There were also a lot of Irish rebel songs and stories, none of which I felt were threatening at all but one evening when I was in a bar in Listowel the local brancj of the Chelsea fan club came in after losing to Man United. When one asked where I was from I said Bolton :-)

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 01:40 PM

Being a United supporter would not have mattered Dave, I drink in a pub over there that is firmly Arsenal (for some reason)never had a problem.

I spent a great afternoon in Bantry a few years back watching Ireland V England at Rugby Union, not once did I feel even slightly intimidated.

I will be watching the Ireland V England game over there again this year, not a problem.

A bit strange then that some people find any talk of holidays and botany on this site intimidating really.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 02:39 PM

Do you know the story of Mac City's manager, Steve Coppell walking down the street carrying a television set?
He bumped into his mate, who asked him, " What's with the teleevision set"
He replied, " I got it for the team"
"That was a good swap", came the reply
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 02:49 PM

if Labour is guilty of the accusations made against it what form does that antisemitism take and why is nobody prepared to describe it?

Why do we need to? I do not even care, but there is no doubt that Labour has a serious problem because all those people say so.
Or do you believe they all lie against their Party like you believe the deputy Leader does?

You've given this excuse before Keith and followed it with your antisemitic suggestion that they did not describe that antisemitism publicly because of their love of the party

I am sure that they all love their Party.
When they experience anti-Semitism within that Party, or any other kind of discrimination or intolerance, the standard thing to do is report it to the Party and let them deal with it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 02:56 PM

"Why do we need to? "
You've just said you have - are you admitted to having lied?
You chatge someone with something, you need to specify exactly what you are charging them with
What an incredibly stupid question - even for you
"but there is no doubt that Labour has a serious problem because all those people say so."
No they don't - you made that up as well
You are still anti semitically accusing the Jews of a pact of silence
You are a classic antisemite
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 03:15 PM

In 1977 we spent two lovely weeks staying at Nellie O'Neill's B&B at Cross Cloghane. We got to know her sister too, who ran Murphy's pub four miles down the road at Brandon. Nellie's lovely granddaughter Ellen served us breakfast. If we ate everything we got even more next morning. It even got to the pitch where we were getting chips on top of everything else! Saved on lunch...

That would be Conor Pass, Dave. It was a bit hairy on the day we first drove over it but I found the rare St Patrick's Cabbage up there. Not a cabbage at all, it's a saxifrage similar to the garden one called London Pride. We climbed Brandon Peak whilst there but it was a bit murky. 1977 wasn't the best summer for weather!


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 03:55 PM

What did St Patrick say as he drove the snakes out of Ireland?

"Are you alright back there lads?"

:D tG


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 04:05 PM

Anybody who thinks they can accuse somebody of something without specifying what is ******* insane
End of story
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 05:00 PM

For all his faults, at least Jim sticks to the subject and the rules of the forum......the rest of you should be ashamed of yourselves.


If you want to chatter to one another do it on a thread set up for the purpose......what you are doing is forum abuse and moderation should take note.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 05:18 PM

What rules?

Careful, Jim. You've made a new friend...😂


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Greg F.
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 06:14 PM

With friends like that......


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: bobad
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 06:57 PM

......who needs enemas.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 07:28 PM

"Careful, Jim. You've made a new friend."
Go wash your mouth out
If you have anything to add to the hang-em-high non-response of these weirdos, feel free - they really are getting boring.
Meanwhile, back at the serious business:
A young black lad in Manchester was kicking a ball up against a wall when a scout for Man City spotted him.
He watched for ten minutes as the lad's skill became apparent - kicking the ball up over his head, back-heeling it, passing from heel to knee and back without hesitation.... absolutely superb.
After the display, the scout approached the lad and said, "how would you like to test for City?"
"**** off", said the lad - it's hard enough being black in this part of the world".
Or
A sweet little girl lived with her single-parent mother next to a site where they were building new houses.
Every morning she would go out and watch the men working through the wire around the site, till one day one of the men spotted her and asked her if she would like to sit down and watch.
They brought her on to the site, found her an old chair to sit on and the next day they had a whip-round and presented her with a little pink boiler-suit, a pink hard-hat and a little pink lunch-box with neatly cut cheese sandwiches and a bottle of pink lemonade inside.
At the end of the week they handed her a little pink envelope with her wages in it.
She ran home to her mother and handed her the money, and her mother said, "that's very nice dear; are you working next week?"
"It depends whether those ****** at the builders merchants deliver the blocks in time", was the reply.
G'night all
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 07:33 PM

Nora Murphy's Bar at Brandon is simply the most exquisite bar I have ever had the good fortune to drink in.

Mary Murphy was the forth generation of the family to run the bar, she was an absolute delight. So kind, so generous, a wonderful hostess. I cannot sing her praises highly enough.

The location of the bar is beautiful, wonderfully beautiful.

As one of our party said as he stood in the doorway, gazing at the amazing vista "take me God I'm ready"

Nothing in all in my 22 intervening years of drinking has come anywhere close.

Her nephew now runs the bar, I suspect it will not have changed one iota.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 07:41 PM

Sorry, Jim. He's no joke for sure. Amazing how someone like him who crows about "remoaners" as much as he does moans like a banshee when we are only doing such innocent things as telling gags, discussing the old days, reminiscing about our golden pasts, chatting about the nice places we know and cataloguing wild flowers. Disappointing coming from a man who does equally innocent things such as praising bigots like Trump and Farage, militating against equality and talking about horrendous leftie women. Remind me never to become a socialist just like him, Jim.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 07:52 PM

Think we may have mentioned that bar before, Raggytash. We went there most nights during that two weeks. It was always packed out and none of the old boys bothered pouring their Guinness into glasses, shades of trendy modern types with their bottles of horse-piss lager. As the evening went on all the space under the wooden benches became taken up with dead men. One night we were treated to a girl of about ten playing the most devastatingly good tin whistle I've ever heard. Mrs Steve and I got involved in a bit of cloak and dagger, spiriting a huge salmon the provenance of which we didn't care to enquire about, down to the pub. Our reward was a hunk of the finest salmon I've ever eaten. Not from a fish farm, that one! The name Nora rings a bell. It was 1977 - does that fit time-wise? Anyway, Nellie was her sister, the lady who looked after us for a fortnight. Happy days!


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Feb 17 - 04:13 AM

Jim,
"but there is no doubt that Labour has a serious problem because all those people say so."
No they don't - you made that up as well


I can put all the quotes up again Jim, but I am sure everyone else remembers them.

You are still anti semitically accusing the Jews of a pact of silence

Ha ha! So silent that no-one knows about Labour's anti-Semitism! Ha ha!


Anybody who thinks they can accuse somebody of something without specifying what is ******* insane


When all those people say that Labour has a serious problem with anti-Semitism, anybody who thinks they are all lying to damage their own Party is ******* insane!


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Feb 17 - 05:10 AM

Put up the evidence of the accusations Keith - that'll do nicely
Until you do, you have no case
You have now reached the satage of multiple lying
you put up evidence - there is no evidence because the Jews prefer to support their party rather than their people - now back to your reinvention of what people are supposed to have said.
You really are an obsessive right wing hate monger
Know any good jokes?
If not, you really have well and truly shat in your own nest here
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Feb 17 - 09:57 AM

there is no evidence because the Jews prefer to support their party rather than their people

No Jim. They experienced anti-Semitism and reported it to the Party to deal with.
All those women MPs who complained about Labour misogyny did the same, as did the gay MP who complained of homophobia.

Do you also claim that gays and feminists " prefer to support their party rather than their people ?"


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Feb 17 - 10:05 AM

It's a much nicer atmosphere in the Yorkshire Dales, Jim. Or Whitby. Or Cornwall. Or Ireland or course :-)

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Feb 17 - 10:07 AM

What Sadiq Khan said.
Do you think he is lying to damage his own Party and help the Government Of Israel Jim?
Do you like being laughed at?


Labour's leadership does not understand anti-Semitism, the party's London mayoral candidate has said as he criticised Jeremy Corbyn for not stopping "unacceptable" racism against Jews from some members.  
Sadiq Khan said recent high-profile incidents of anti-Semitism in Labour should be a "badge of shame" for the party and called for members of the ruling body to be retrained in what constitutes discrimination.
The Tooting MP also directly challenged his leader to take a "tougher stance" on the issue, saying he was "embarrassed" by the party's record and demanding it was time not just to "talk the talk" but "walk the walk"


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Feb 17 - 10:13 AM

What the NEC said,
"The NEC are appalled by recent cases of anti-Semitic abuse. Anti-Semitism has no place in the Labour Party and is contrary to everything we stand for."

"at anti-Semitism within the Labour Party. The entire NEC recognises the seriousness of this issue "

That is the leadership, including Corbyn Jim.
Obviously you think you know much more than they do!


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Feb 17 - 10:14 AM

He's not the mayoral candidate. He's the mayor. And he's wrong.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Feb 17 - 10:17 AM

And he's wrong.

You really believe you know more about Labour's problem than Khan does!

You must like being laughed at too Steve.
Ha ha ha.
There you go.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 08 Feb 17 - 10:21 AM

Instead of offering peoples opinions professor, provide some evidence.

Anyone can make a claim about anything, but to substantiate that claim evidence is needed.


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