The Concept of FREED Folkmusic

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Sep 10 - 04:54 PM

Conrad, the Baltimore Folk Music Society seems to be a bit heavy on folk dancing, but they also have a pretty active "StoryFolk" series of programs going. Along with a "coffeehouse" a couple of times a month, and all kinds of other programs. Having read their "statement of purpose," it seems to me that you could multiply your efforts by affiliating yourself with this organization.

Or is your interest in folk culture and keeping everything totally without money changing hands so deep that the $27.00 yearly membership fee put you off?

Or are they, perhaps, the ones who kicked you down the front stairs after you ran your mouth?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Sep 10 - 04:32 PM

". . . festivals that have become nothing but masquerade."

Are you talking about Renaissance Fairs and/SCA activities, Conrad?

I wouldn't equate those events with folk festivals.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Smokey.
Date: 08 Sep 10 - 04:30 PM

Generally I do not render an opinion unless asked

Good job we didn't ask, then..

What is your opinion of the maxim 'live and let live'?

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 08 Sep 10 - 04:11 PM

So now I am the Pol Pot of folk music! A strong remedy is needed.
I would not go to those lengths.

Yes I told my folkie friends that a. I was a conservative republican (no not tea party far from it) b. I was religious c. I tend to favor authentic celebrations and old non commercial folk over commercial and festivals that have become nothing but masquerade.

Actually a big issue was that I objected to folk, other festivals where one's impression of the festival was more of an outside shopping mall and money collecting activity than the stated goal.

Generally I do not render an opinion unless asked and generally abstract discussions here are more in more colorful language than face to face communication.

So there you go that complaint dealt with on to the next defense of the status quo.

Conrad

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Ralphie
Date: 08 Sep 10 - 03:11 PM

Pol Pot was in a minority of one as well.
So, the Killing fields of Cambodia are justified?

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Sep 10 - 03:11 PM

Basically what you have done as far as your folk musician ex-friends are concerned, Conrad, is committed suicide with the same weapon with which Samson slew 1,000 Philistines.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Sep 10 - 03:06 PM

"I have recently lost a good group of folk musician friends for simply defending my own particular values and philosophies."

Quelle surprise!!

Here's a little truism for you to ponder, Conrad. If you go around calling people "despicable leeches," it's not at all surprising that you got a boot up your backside, sending you ass over teakettle down the front steps, followed by sound of the door slamming behind you.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Will Fly
Date: 08 Sep 10 - 01:54 PM

Thanks for the compilation. But I am not the confused one!

Really? Just look at the tripe you've written and reflect. If you can't see the stupidity, the conflicting statements, the unverifiable assertions, the envy, the bitching, etc. of your thoughts and viewpoint, then there's no hope for you. End of story.

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 08 Sep 10 - 11:18 AM

Well so far critique has been quite weak.

The biggest problem is accepting that although some do practice free folk and have success with it, it has to be made the rule rather than the exception.

Professional music needs to be the exception rather than the rule.

We need to accept that folk music as a way of life needs more attention and accessibility. Folk music has more cultural lifeway implications and obligations. It is not well suited to commercialism as commercialism limits its accessibility and growth.

Conrad

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 08 Sep 10 - 10:47 AM

And of every 100,000 "reformers" who believe that *they alone* have the inside track on how things should be, maybe 99,999 are nut-jobs while maybe 1 has some truly new insight.

So what are the odds, Conrad?

(Rob...dipping back into this morass briefly)

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 08 Sep 10 - 08:46 AM

Reform often starts that way.

Just because the majority in the pro musician worship group are of one mind does not mean that it is a sane mind.

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 08 Sep 10 - 06:51 AM

Conrad.
You are in a minority of one!

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 08 Sep 10 - 06:44 AM

Thanks for the compilation.

But I am not the confused one!

Conrad

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Will Fly
Date: 08 Sep 10 - 05:35 AM

Here's a collection of some of the sayings of Conrad throughout this thread:

[pro folk musicians are] walking juke boxes that you need to put money into in order to get music out

For centuries the folk world did without all the expensive frills and produced great music and musical experiences for large numbers of people.

House concerts are not really casual but highly contrived alternative money making schemes. Never go to one just thinking it is a casual ordinary music opportunity- they will want money.

When will I ever learn that if I want to sit down and simply learn to sing and play with others that I must give up my freedom of speech.

I also ran a virtual tin whistle folk festival all organized on line once- totally free totally self help.

I have given up selling my books as people have no money left. I do very well however by distributing order forms- which do come in eventually

inside groups of folkies do strictly enforce their political and lifestyle paradigms.

if public music was free it would expand the demand such that professionals would indeed have better incomes

I have recently lost a good group of folk musician friends for simply defending my own particular values and philosophies.

the folk world is jingoistically liberal, alt lifeways, socialist and tightly knit making it difficult for people with other views to come in from the outside.

Why do folk musicians have to travel? Stay where they are and train sufficient others and create an adequate local scene.

pro folkies in my area are shown to be a bunch of arrogant piss heads just wanting to control your philosopy.

I do the local festivals for free always. The key word is always. Occasionally I will accept a small donation for special private sort of events.

Professional musicians charging fees benefit from scarcity.

I am really concerned about the continuing use of public funds for folk music in these difficult times

Then again folk music is rationed. Folk musicians want to inflate their ego and charge rock star admissions.

The value of the music is found in much more than the notes heard but in the cultural setting associated with the music

professional folk musicians and those using festivals and other public events to make money are slowing the spread of the music and should make it more accessible via adopting the free folk music model

I am always surprised that folk musicians, poor folk that they claim to be always seem to hold sings and sessions at the most expensive places. If one drinks properly one can only afford to attend for a few minutes.

Why do we have performers that need to make a living?

We never ever needed traveling musicians we need to spread it locally.

Nothing wrong with buying music though. Just another form of transmission.

Nothing but professional lefty, adgenda pushing, rock stars sucking the blood out of the experiences, limiting access via funds.

I as a traditional player playing as part of my life do not envy pros they are despicable leeches.

There you have it - the wit and wisdom of Mr. Dazed and Confused of Baltimore.

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Ralphie
Date: 08 Sep 10 - 03:50 AM

Can't wait to tell Martin Carthy that he is a despicable leech! Lol!

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 10:13 PM

Look who's calling who "despicable leeches!!

". . . organizers say they take public funds and proceeds and spend it all on musicians and set up. Musicians claim to not make money at all hardly."

No, Conrad, they're both telling you the truth. Public funds amount to only a small subsidy, never enough to cover a whole event, and the organizers have to scramble to dig up contributions from elsewhere to supplement the public grant, otherwise it's not going to happen at all. NOBODY gets rich. In fact, people lose money. But they do it because they think the music is worthwhile.

Which, obviously, you do not!

And you can take your insults and shove them where the sun doesn't shine, Conrad. I've told you what the problem is, but you're too friggin' lazy and cheap to do anything about it. You want it all done for you, and for nothing!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Smokey.
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 10:11 PM

I don't worry about free folk, Conrad, that seems to be a concern of yours, not mine, and I no longer look to music to make a living. I'm not sure what you think you are going to achieve by blathering out all this offensive rubbish, but it certainly isn't popularity or influence.

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 09:47 PM

hey smokey I as a traditional player playing as part of my life do not envy pros they are despicable leeches. (most of the time except for those exceptions cited by Don)

Ok the story thus far.....organizers say they take public funds and proceeds and spend it all on musicians and set up. Musicians claim to not make money at all hardly. Which is wrong...probably both...

Ok why worry about free folk if your not making much anyway....

Don thanks for once again bringing in the exceptions! You have not given us anything or way to improve have you. Exploitation of volunteers and hero worship and limiting accessibility is ok then for you.

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Smokey.
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 09:18 PM

Jack - shhh, don't tell everyone..

Remember, Icke is supposed to look like a loony.

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Smokey.
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 09:11 PM

Heh, I didn't spend 40 years at the arse-end of the music business without learning something, Don..

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 09:02 PM

Cross-posted with your last post, Smokey. EXACTLY RIGHT!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Jack Campin
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 08:56 PM

What Conrad has not yet realized is that folk music is controlled by us Reptilians. Of course we're not interested in keeping him entertained.

http://www.davidicke.com

Keep it coming. You're snakefood.

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 08:53 PM

Well, then, Conrad, it sounds like you live in an isolated little enclave populated by nothing but mercenary barbarians. My condolences!

Yours is a very insular and parochial viewpoint, Conrad. You are extrapolating from your unfortunate circumstances and assuming that the way things are in your benighted community is the way things are the world over. Not so! The rest of the folk music world is doing just fine, thank you!

I would suggest that you either move to a more civilized area of the world, or get busy locally and try to change things in your community, Stop trying to mess things up where they are working well.

The old wheeze is, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

And, Conrad, where I am, and where most of the people on this thread are, it ain't broke. So stop insisting that we fix it!

Clean up your own yard before you try to tell other people how to do things!

By the way, Conrad, since the general demise of small communities during the past century, the migrations of many formerly rural people to large cities, and the advent of mass entertainment media such as radio and television, to a large extent, professional musicians who perform folk material ARE the guardians of the tradition. They are often an inspiration to others to learn to play and sing themselves. Have you never heard Pete Seeger enthusiastically urging his audiences to make their own music? Good, entertaining performers, who are also informative tend to spread enthusiasm wherever they perform. It behooves them to do so. After all, their livelihood depends on enthusiastic, and if posssible, ever-increasing audiences.

So your idea that professional musicians have a vested interest in "rationing" folk music and keeping it "scarce" is patently nonsensical!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Smokey.
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 08:48 PM

I'll tell you something else, Conrad - only a miniscule proportion of working rock musicians ever get to see a hotel swimming pool unless they're cleaning it. Or jazz musicians, or classical musicians. The chances of actually becoming rich through playing any sort of music are so ridiculously slim, that unless one is seriously deluded, the motivation has to be love of the music itself and the satisfaction of sharing its benefits and beauties with an audience. To accuse musicians of deliberately 'rationing' is deeply insulting.

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Smokey.
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 07:53 PM

I think this contempt for professionals and professionalism is, as Don pointed out, pure envy. Envy based on a non existent fantasy world where folkies get to loll about by swimming pools and somehow make even more money by rationing their performances. A world where shit doesn't smell and people eat their litter.

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 07:45 PM

And another thing.....

the DC Baltimore crowd does not do trad they do new singer songwriter techno, rock celtic of their own creation.

Nothing wrong with that but they should do more to preserve and transmit the own material rather than being so selfish and ego centric.

We have little resources, little time, why ration, why play only or mostly your own material, why just perform why not teach. Why not help get the treasures of the past out there too.

But no pro musicians only want to sell their own take, their own material, become famous and do the national tour and sell those cds.

We need more of a guardianship of the tradition.

Less fame and fortune.

Conrad

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 07:41 PM

Dont claim to be original but just try to get performers to attend a free very traditional and non bulshit event when there is highly commercial fairy festival based upon masquerade or nothing else. They follow the money and dont give a hoot about loyalty to tradition.

I do it.

Yes others do it but by and large it is hard to find such events and they are rare.

Generally its folk musicians aping rock stars.

Yes don you have lots of exceptions. Come to Baltimore and Washington area and you will find lots of exceptions on the other side of the equation. Nothing but professional lefty, adgenda pushing, rock stars sucking the blood out of the experiences, limiting access via funds.

You cant keep dwelling on exceptions. Each one of those is wonderful.
Get on the the meat of the argument.

The reason folk music has not expanding- its called rationing and exclusion of all but the small number of the elite generally. That should change. Yes they have barely enough elite to keep them going.

But you all keep telling me that the status quo does not make any money and that you are all poor.....ok then time for a change right?

Lets hear some proposals for FREE folk rather than ways to keep it from happening....

Ha!

Conrad

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Tootler
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 06:53 PM

The more this thread goes on, the deeper the hole you are digging for yourself, Conrad and the harder it will be for you to get out.

You say

Actually at my events there is no audience- everyone is an equal participant.

We've been doing that for years here in the UK. We call it a singaround. Don Firth has been doing it a long time, only he calls it a "hoot". Nothing original there, then.

All in all, Conrad, I find it hard to find anything original in what you are proposing. It has all been done before. The only difference is that most of us don't have the contempt for professionals you have.

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Jack Campin
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 06:50 PM

Don - thanks. Your link led me through the Dyer-Bennet site to look up Sven Scholander on Spotify.

I think you'd have to know Swedish to get it. It's amazing that somebody like that should have been a major indirect influence on the postwar Anglo-American revival.

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 06:26 PM

Yeah, Smokey, it sounds like the economics of the folk scene in the U.S. is pretty much as it is in the U.K.

As far as Conrad's wanting no differentiation between performers and audience, I don't see that working in any kind of really large event. But I've already described the "hoots" or informal gatherings that folk music enthusiasts have been engaging in for as long as I've been at it (since 1952, and I know they were going on for years if not decades before I came along). Simply informal gatherings, more often that not in someone's living room or recreation room. No separation between performers and audience, and any member of the "audience" who feels so moved can jump in at any time. Nothing as formal as a "song circle," and no "rules" beyond simple courtesy and willingness to let anyone who wants to take a turn rather than one or two people trying to dominate the scene.

Oftentimes, some of the older performers at hoots will offer suggestions to the newer ones. Early on, I learned a lot while singing at hoots. I'd do a song, and when I'd finished, Walt or someone might say something like, "Have you ever tried to put a Dm in near the end of the second line before going to the G7?" Good stuff!

And in performances where there is a separation between performer and audience, such as a concert—or for that matter, a television show!!—as far as setting "entertainment" aside in favor of "education," you'd better keep it entertaining or people aren't going to hang around long enough for you to "educate" them. But you've heard the old gag about, "I knew he was a folk singer because he talked for ten minutes introducing a three minute song!" What, I wonder, does Conrad think the performer is talking about during that theoretical ten minutes? About the song and its background! Not giving a recipe for making your own guacamole!!

And as far as performers doing more to "educate" their audiences, my major break as a performer came in the form of being asked to do a series on folk music on KCTS-TV, Seattle's (and the whole area's) major educational television station, which was based at the University of Washington at the time. The series, "Ballads and Books," was funded by the Seattle Public Library. As a result of this educational series, not only did I get a regular paid job in Seattle's nicest coffeehouse, I was asked to do presentations in American History classes in various schools.

How did I first meet Richard Dyer-Bennet? My voice teacher had heard me mention Dyer-Bennet during my lessons. She taught singing one day a week at a school in Bellingham, Washington, an hour and a half's drive north of Seattle, and said that if I could contrive to come to Bellingham and be at the school at 10:00 in the morning, she would see if she could arrange for me to meet him. I did, and she did. Dyer-Bennet was not doing a concert as such. He was performing for students at an assembly. Sponsored by the school's English Literature and Music departments.

And Richard Dyer-Bennet, the "Twentieth Century Minstrel," who did concerts in Carnegie Hall and New York's Town Hall, and often performed wearing white tie and tales, was the nearest thing to a "jet-set" professional singer of folk songs that I can think of. He usually traveled from engagement to engagement (many school assemblies) by train or bus!

Old friend Bob Nelson put together a six-part course relating folk songs to American History. He talks about various historical events, then sings the songs that grew out of those events (much like Burl Ives's radio program back in the late 1940s that I used to listen to). Last I heard, Bob has done his series at six different schools so far. Bob has also been asked to do a radio program on folk music at a local radio station. Entertainment AND education at the same time.

Conrad doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. It's really kind of sad when someone tries to re-invent the wheel when he doesn't even know what a wheel is for.

He needs to go to a home for the terminally bewildered.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 06:20 PM

"You and Wav should form a duo....Bound to pack in the crowds. "

Sadly, neither would appreciate the other, nor think the other was good enough to cooperate with.


"Get rid of the audience performer relationship"

So without an audience, what are you doing?

... 99, 100, change hands ....

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Smokey.
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 02:39 PM

The point is, Conrad, that your 'paradigm' is already happening in the field of 'folk' music, and always has. However, if it wasn't for professionals, amplification, stages and big organised events (with toilets) there would never have been any expansion and many people would be fairly oblivious to it. In other words, if you keep it small, it stays small. It's a simple thing to understand. Every professional knows that if they charge too much they don't get the job; they don't 'ration' themselves, they need all the work they can get. I don't really know the economics of the US folk scene, but in the UK it's impossible to make a living from folk music without a great deal of travelling and playing large festivals. Even then it's not a decent living unless you are prepared to play outside the country, where gigs tend to be significantly more lucrative - if you can get them. Maybe you would prefer folk music not to be entertainment, that's your prerogative, but to the vast majority that is not the case. As for volunteers being exploited, the key to that one is the word 'volunteer'. Likewise the audience, who volunteer to buy tickets so that the events which provide their favourite form of entertainment can be perpetuated. I don't particularly like the fact that public money is necessary to keep the UK folk scene going, but on the other hand the same is true for classical music the world over, and I wouldn't want to lose that either. As they say, there's no such thing as a free lunch.

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Smokey.
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 12:26 PM

Thats it my paradigm is so different from contemporary practice that even the concept of no audience is confusing.

No it isn't, only when you've just mentioned that you always get 'positive crowd feedback' when you perform. Either there's an audience or there isn't, and if there isn't, you aren't exactly expanding the market, are you?

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Bettynh
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 12:25 PM

Following a Conrad thread is sorta like watching a bug with three legs. You know it's wrong (don't feed the trolls), but it's fascinating to see the vital fluids leak out and the bug squirm.

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 11:42 AM

"We need to do what we can to lessen costs and improve access, strengthen transmission at the expense of entertainment"
Huh?

What on earth does that mean?
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I thought performers (of any genre) would like to entertain others?
Isn't that the whole point?
Now...where did I put that hair shirt?

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 11:23 AM

"Nothing wrong with buying music though"
Hah! Gotcha! Hoist with your own petard at last.
You and Wav should form a duo....Bound to pack in the crowds.

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 10:15 AM

Nothing wrong with using the internet. I dont tend to pay for music on the internet. Nothing wrong with buying music though. Just another form of transmission.

The problem is having all of our folk venues dominated or at least made more expensive by the worship of pro musicians who drive the costs up, ration their music and take public moneys from more needy purposes.

We need to do what we can to lessen costs and improve access, strengthen transmission at the expense of entertainment

Of course there are some wonderful exceptions. But they are not the rule.

Conrad

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 08:37 AM

"Before that on never saw these folks in the village and villagers simply played as part of their lifeway. As it should be now."

They didn't have the Internet either. Are you willing to give that up as well? I do hope you'll lead by example.

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Surreysinger
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 08:14 AM

>>WAV ?
Walk Abouts Verse

Sorry Conrad,but I think I can see the similarities. :-(

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 07:52 AM

WAV?

Thats it my paradigm is so different from contemporary practice that even the concept of no audience is confusing.

Even when you are telling a story if it is in a smallish setting- maybe 20 people it is possible to do way more than entertain. Eye contact and body language work across space from individual to individual. People can chime in with proverbs, ranns, sayings that are appropriate to the story. These are things which are only made difficult when crowds are huge and amplification is necessary. Hard to interact totally with someone you can barely see and through as speaker. In this way there is no division between teller or singer and those who come to take part.

Get rid of the audience performer relationship. Placed in the context of the old music and the courts of kings and chieftains the audience has simply taken over the role of the royalty and is no longer the family or the village group surrounding the player or teller. We need to liberate ourselves from the excessive formality and the dominance of the performer.

Consult the history of the musician as dance master and instructor in Ireland. At first they served in courts and high houses but with loss of power of the Irish warlords they were forced to adapt, begin traveling the country and exployting the ordinary folk making expenditures upon them required for social advancement.

Before that on never saw these folks in the village and villagers simply played as part of their lifeway. As it should be now.

Conrad

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 05:21 AM

It's heartening to discover that the US has it's very own WAV....I thought it was just we Brits!

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Smokey.
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 12:52 AM

"Always positive crowd feedback."

"Actually at my events there is no audience"

I have to confess to being a little confused..

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Smokey.
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 12:19 AM

Well, I suppose if there's no audience that does eliminate quite a few problems.

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 06 Sep 10 - 11:32 PM

Actually at my events there is no audience- everyone is an equal participant. Try it sometime. Always free.

And proud to announce that our Guy Fawkes Celebration will feature top rate craft "nut brown ale" half keg donated by a friend!

People bring what they have. Easy!

The concept of having to have an uplifted raised up performer is really kind of strange.

Conrad

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Smokey.
Date: 06 Sep 10 - 11:23 PM

I reckon if you have an event where everyone gives their services for nothing and the audience gets in for free, the audience are then exploiting everyone else. What's fair about that?

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 06 Sep 10 - 11:05 PM

Storys are for many purposes.


Too often we think only of entertainment but many were created for the transfer of information or moraltiy.....

We too often think of folk performance when performance, that is for entertainment is only one purpose of many of folk artifacts.

The most important purpose is transference from one generation to another. This requires often a different presentation style- rote learning is not always entertaining.

Is transference of folk artifacts from one generation getting overshadowed by the dominance of entertainment which does not serve transference as well.

So often professionals wishing to maintain scarcity fail to transfer and in some cases tell audiences that the story or folk artifact is theirs alone, invoke copyright and prohibit this most important of functions.

Conrad

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Sep 10 - 11:00 PM

(. . . still doesn't get it. Doubtful that he ever will. . . .)

Conrad, it's not that traveling singers of folk songs can travel because they were born with silver spoons in their mouths and a huge inheritance. They can travel because they are good at what they do, good enough so people not only want to hear them, but are willing to pay to hear them. The reason they don't get rich is because a lot of what they are paid has to be spent on travel and living expenses while they are on the road.

It's called "overhead." And even if an event is free and is all-volunteer, including the singers, it still incurs overhead. No way to avoid it. Sooner or later, Conrad, as someone once said, "You have to pay the piper!"

By the way, I have never, nor do I know any singers who have, gotten paid enough to stay in a hotel sufficiently posh to have a swimming pool where I could hang out.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Smokey.
Date: 06 Sep 10 - 09:28 PM

For me, preferable, but we aren't talking about cake..

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 06 Sep 10 - 09:23 PM

A cake with no frosting may still be good cake.

Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
From: Smokey.
Date: 06 Sep 10 - 09:06 PM

That's a pity. See, for me, good stories are ten-a-penny, but good storytellers are much more of a rarity. I enjoy quality performance, sometimes even when I'm not that fond of what is being performed. Just to see or hear something done well is a buzz for me - I see it as an affirmation of human excellence, a reminder of the better side of humanity. Poor quality I can do without, free or not. Each to his own, I suppose.