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The Concept of FREED Folkmusic
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: catspaw49 Date: 04 Oct 10 - 01:51 PM We're all familiar with circular reasoning; Conrad shows us circular blabbering. Names Conrad......jetset pros......names.... Spaw |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: Will Fly Date: 04 Oct 10 - 01:46 PM You people are scared shitless by the prospect of loosing market share to a world where ordinary people learn and play music for themselves and get back to protecting the tradition at all levels and pro musicians only find work occasionally and festivals have no production companies and all the other blood suckers. You, Conrad, have proved in this post that you are a complete moron who has no idea of what the real world of folk music is all about. "Ordinary" poeple - of whom I'm one - do learn and play music for themselves. Can't you get that through your thick head? I've no interest in "Market share" - you're the one who appears to be scared shitless by the concept! As for protecting the "tradition" - you don't appear to have the faintest idea what the "tradition" consists of. Just answer one of my requests about songs and tunes - and prove me wrong! |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: Howard Jones Date: 04 Oct 10 - 01:15 PM Conrad, I find your latest posting even stranger than all the others. Your description of a world where ordinary people learn and play music for themselves and get back to protecting the tradition at all levels and pro musicians only find work occasionally and festivals have no production companies and all the other blood suckers describes exactly the folk scene as I've known it for the last 40 years. That's in the UK of course, but from what I've learned on Mudcat I doubt whether the American folk scene is much different. People who've just drunk 8-9 pints always insist they're not drunk. But it's not your personal drinking we object to, provided you behave yourself (although we've had reports about your behaviour), and your health is your own concern. It's your insistence that drinking is necessary and that the overriding priority for a folk venue must the price of beer that we utterly reject. |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: *#1 PEASANT* Date: 04 Oct 10 - 01:00 PM First you teach then you entertain you can combine them by teaching in an entertaining way many people do it. You people are scared shitless by the prospect of loosing market share to a world where ordinary people learn and play music for themselves and get back to protecting the tradition at all levels and pro musicians only find work occasionally and festivals have no production companies and all the other blood suckers. And I can drink 8-9 pints easily over a 4-6 hour period and not be drunk in the least. A question of training (I did go to school in the NE) and body weight and metabolism. Conrad |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: Will Fly Date: 04 Oct 10 - 10:44 AM Excellent point, Howard. There's not much point, other than curiosity or general interest, in going to a guitar workshop if you cannot play a guitar. Furthermore, a good performance will certainly inspire many more people to play than a workshop. Any workshop - and I've both attended and run them - is very dependent on the skill levels of the attendees. I've watched, on TV, filmed workshops/masterclasses held by opera singers such as Pavarotti, and they're a mixed bag, frankly. Undoubtedly useful for the people being taught, but not as inspiring as a concert by Pavarotti. Workshops can also dig down to levels of detail which can be tedious for the onlooker, though fascinating for the attendee. The other point, which we've rammed home here, is that you can take a horse to the water but you cannot make it drink. There are no shortage of places where one can listen to folk music - clubs, sessions, singarounds, festivals, even on Spotify - so those who want to be drawn in will be drawn in - and those that have no interest in the genre will give it a miss. I've still not heard any evidence that folk music is so necessary to one's "lifeway" that we have to concentrate on educating people into it, rather than simply enjoying it for what it is. As for folk clubs changing, dying and being born - which is what has happened continuously for the last 50 years or so - I wouldn't trust the sole evidence of the BBC when I have the evidence of my own environment all around me. Like many another before you, Conrad, you talk constantly of folk music consisting of songs. But, as I've constantly banged on about in this forum on previous threads (and I apologise in advance to those who know my taste here), traditional music is composed of both songs and tunes. There are literally hundreds of books of traditional tunes - arranged for piano, guitar, fiddle, mandolin, pipes - available for the musician. I was up in Morpeth only last week and picked up a clutch of tune books from the bagpipe museum. (The total cost of those books, by the way, was around the price of 4-5 pints of beer, and I know which will last longer and give me more pleasure). I would be very interested in knowing what tunes you would select from your repertoire as being of importance - so important that they should be taught to people who know nothing of traditional music - so important that it's more important to teach them than to entertain with them. I await your response with bated breath... ... but I'm sure I'll wait in vain! |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: Howard Jones Date: 04 Oct 10 - 10:02 AM It's true there are many songs celebrating drinking, but not many celebrating drunkenness. On the contrary, songs like "Seven Drunken Nights" or "Farewell to Whisky" either ridicule or disapprove of the drunkard. No one has expressed a "fear" of drinking, just an objection to drunken boorish behaviour which interferes with the enjoyment of others. However for 99% of people the price of beer is not a determining factor in deciding whether to go to a folk event. If you're part of the other 1%, doesn't that suggest you've got your priorities a little muddled? Your claim that you are not drunk after 10 pints is simply self-deception. Besides, if you are not drunk then what is all this nonsense about "freeing the muse"? If your muse is so dormant that it takes 10 pints to awaken her, perhaps that is a hint that she should be left to slumber. Actually, in Genevieve's latest programme Phil Hare makes the point that he and other guitarists are always co-opted into doing workshops at festivals as well as concerts. However, if there is only time to fit one of these in, a workshop would mainly be of interest to a few guitar players, whereas a performance will attract many times that number - which is going to be more effective at spreading folk music and inspiring people to play? |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: catspaw49 Date: 04 Oct 10 - 09:56 AM Oh, I see......well, then, just who ARE these jetset, money hungry, pros? WE NEED NAMES HERE CONRADWe need specifics............Spaw |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: *#1 PEASANT* Date: 04 Oct 10 - 08:54 AM Did not say that- I simply noted that given a choice between mere entertainment and excellent education they chose the former. |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: catspaw49 Date: 04 Oct 10 - 08:33 AM Martin Simpson then is a money grabbing pro.......Is that right? Name us some more names......... Spaw |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: *#1 PEASANT* Date: 04 Oct 10 - 06:57 AM I respect settings that call for non alcoholic environment- religious ones and often occupational singing requires absolute sobriety for safety- chopping wood for example. I do not accept crowd presure to limit alcohol consumption. Again awakening the muse is not drunk and disorderly. Such fear of drinkers. Funny Take a listen to the BBC Programme Sunday folk for a very good interview which brings up the folk club problem in the UK- that is decline and change in nature. Makes many points that I have made. On the same show a words and music program is discussed. The festival will have Martin simpson. He gives great workshops. He had limited time so of the two- concert and workshop which was cut? The workshop of course because entertainment is more important for money making than is education. This is ass backwards. Priority should be given to education. a great show with a great host Ms. Tudor does great interviews. Conrad |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 04 Oct 10 - 03:30 AM Conrad's Backyard Event ? |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 04 Oct 10 - 03:02 AM Oi! :-P |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: Seamus Kennedy Date: 04 Oct 10 - 01:42 AM Oh alright Spaw....you helped. Feeling ignored, were we? :>) |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: catspaw49 Date: 03 Oct 10 - 08:33 PM Hey Seamus, you no good, money grabbing, elitist, stage stealing, non teaching, venue hogging, jet setting, expensive guitar pickin', dirty, rotten, professional!!!! How dare you come into this piece of claptrap thread (exceptions such as Don and others noted) where Conrad is rambling and ranting while I practice assorted insults and have the gawdamn gall toadd to add something again???? Let Ol' Cornhole run his "biertrap" filling the joint with yak shit while we listen to Don, Will, Howard, and many others. Meanwhile I will bully the broke-dick mamalucca in new and even weirder ways. Now go on and take your no good, money grabbing, elitist, stage stealing, non teaching, venue hogging, jet setting, expensive guitar pickin', dirty, rotten, professional, ass outta' here! (btw, I just love that friggin' cowboy album to death) Spaw AND CONRAD...NAME NAMES...................I mean hell, Seamus lives over there just a few miles from you and is a pro.......... |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: Don Firth Date: 03 Oct 10 - 08:33 PM Bowing deeply, with joy and humility! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: Seamus Kennedy Date: 03 Oct 10 - 06:39 PM You did it! Congratulations Conrad and Don! |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe Date: 03 Oct 10 - 04:33 PM Leadfingers! 1000 |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe Date: 03 Oct 10 - 04:32 PM Tonight, Matthew, I'm going to be... |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: Don Firth Date: 03 Oct 10 - 03:43 PM Quite possibly, Tootler, quite possibly. But despite Conrad's stated beliefs and no matter what his motives may be, I'd say this thread has produced a fairly worthwhile exchange of information and ideas. #### Conrad, if you need beer to awaken your muse, you are a pretty sorry specimen indeed (You know what a "specimen" is? Go pee in a bottle!). My muse is quite alert without having to resort to that sort of artificial stimulus. You are just making feeble excuses to drink yourself into a stupor, in which case what you think of as your "muse" is nothing more than alcoholic vapors. I've posted this before. But it bears repeating, because it's an important, but little appreciated, bit of world history. In a fascinating book entitled Around the World in Six Glasses, author Tom Standage, explains how early farmers saved surplus grain by fermenting it into beer, the Greeks took grapes and made wine, and Arabs learned how to distill spirits. Water was often unsafe to drink because of the prevalence of water-born diseases, and not knowing that the cause was bacteria, which could be killed by boiling the water, most people tended to avoid water and drank beer or wine, in which the alcohol killed the germs.Now, this is not some sort of brief for "temperance" in the Carrie Nation model. As I have said, I thoroughly enjoy a beer or two on a hot summer afternoon or sitting around gabbing with friends, and I occasionally have a glass of wine with meals. An occasional mixed drink, yes. But this merely adds to the enjoyment of the occasion, it is not necessary for being able to enjoy the occasion! My muse is already fully awake, ALERT, and functioning. Conrad, if you need the booze to enjoy various aspects of life, including music, then whether you will admit it to yourself or not, YOU HAVE A PROBLEM. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: Tootler Date: 03 Oct 10 - 03:29 PM Just a thought. Has this been a wind up all along? |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: catspaw49 Date: 03 Oct 10 - 10:39 AM Still no names........... Spaw |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: Tootler Date: 03 Oct 10 - 10:27 AM Don you have to learn of the european tradition of drinking and the role of drink in relation to music. I am a European, British to be precise. I know well the tradition of drinking in relation to music and anything else, for that matter. It means that it is not safe to go into the centre of many of our cities on a Saturday night. It means well known musicians dieing an early death. (Jimi Hendrix, for example. Yes he was American, but he died here in Britain) It means that my brother-in-law died at the age of 47 from liver failure. It means that people in this country are seriously concerned about the epidemic of binge drinking we are suffering from at the moment. I could go on, but I won't except to say Stop giving us that pap about drink and the muse The truth is that you are at your best when you're sober. BTW, 4 litres is approx 7 pints imperial. Drinking that daily puts your liver at serious risk. |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: GUEST,Ralphie Date: 03 Oct 10 - 10:14 AM I'm sitting here listening to some Richard Thompson sessions that I had the good fortune to record over the last ten years. More talent in one little finger than you have had in a lifetime. Please go away and get a life, Conrad. Your pontifications are pointless, and whats more ....Banal. Go and drink Bier.....You seem to do it quite well. We'll carry on making music. That's not something that you have any clue about.... |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Date: 03 Oct 10 - 09:28 AM "Always good when the thread starts talking about me almost entirely." Well perhaps that's because the entire thread and the so-called 'radical paradigm' you propose, was actually all about *you* from the beginning. You are an unemployed heavy drinker who wants a free party. Nothing wrong in that, but it's got nothing genuinely to do with 'expanding' folk music to *other* people: 99 % of whom do not, and indeed would not wish to share your particular personal 'lifeway'. And that includes the bulk of amateur folk enthusiasts. The rest of the world isn't there to give you what you want. And I say that as someone who sympathises with people who choose alternative lifestyles. |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: Surreysinger Date: 03 Oct 10 - 08:42 AM >>Don you have to learn of the european tradition of drinking and the role of drink in relation to music. Hmm ... wonder why the Bacchanalia were banned in Europe in the end? >>Yes liberation of the muse most important if not essential. You keep rolling this rather pompous phrase out - presumably with the implication that, without booze, the poor old muse is going to be caged in. Well, Conrad ... that's a load of utter tosh.Not to mention your repeated statements that "quality doesn't matter". I don't need alcohol in order to feel something or to perform something. Example - a couple of days ago I was in the middle of a rehearsal for a gig in two weeks' time,and working on one or two songs with my musical partner that we hadn't touched for some time. In order to put myself in "the right place" all it took was standing up, focusing my mind on what the song I was singing was about, and putting myself mentally in the position of the person in the song, whilst trusting to the accompanist to allow me to sing without the aid of a safety net (metaphorically speaking). The accompaniment was sympathetic, and a symbiotic part and parcel of the whole ...the cathartic result was a feeling of having been punched in the solar plexus at the end of the song and, without wishing to sound overly dramatic, a feeling of emotional exhaustion. Oh and during it, of course, I was having to attend to the physical requirements of singing the song, remembering the words, phrasing, as well as injecting emotion and sense. With all due respect (which of course means none), I couldn't have managed any of that with massive quantities of alcohol in my bloodstream. I might very well have FELT that I could, thanks to the dulling effects of the stuff, but I doubt that an observer would have had the same perception. >>This is not true for all aspects of folk music- for example hymns and songs of occupation. So the muse is only required for certain kinds of music? More twaddle. Passion and fervour are still required for songs of that type. >>It is good to reach a state where quality of performance is disregarded in favor of perhaps passion. I think we've all heard the fervent drunk bellowing out love songs (or others) in a fashion which is painful to anyone in the vicinity. For anyone other than the singer in question, it most certainly is NOT good for someone to have reached a state of that kind. >>Quallity simply does not matter. Taking care of the songs matters. And of course "taking care of the songs" means presenting them to the unitiated in a form which appeals to them - poor quality rubbish doesn't sell . >>Perhaps you need to drink more to understand. I'm still wondering whether this is a thread about music .. it really does seem more like a circular argument of self-justification on the food and booze front. |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: *#1 PEASANT* Date: 03 Oct 10 - 08:38 AM Always good when the thread starts talking about me almost entirely. They haven't an argument to stand on! Conrad |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: Tim Leaning Date: 03 Oct 10 - 04:46 AM "I am a certified secondary teacher I know about teaching methods." Cant get much more professional than that eh? |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: Ralphie Date: 03 Oct 10 - 02:36 AM Good grief. Conrad has a wife? If I were her (God forbid!) I'd stay asleep as much as possible! |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 03 Oct 10 - 01:53 AM Actually, I've just found a A herd of buffalo can move only as fast as the slowest buffalo. When the herd is hunted, it is the slowest and weakest ones at the back that are killed first. This natural selection is good for the herd as a whole, because the general speed and health of the whole group keeps improving by the regular killing of the weakest members. In much the same way, the human brain can only operate as fast as the slowest brain cells. Excessive intake of alcohol, we all know, kills brain cells, but naturally it attacks the slowest and weakest brain cells first. In this way, regular consumption of beer eliminates the weaker brain cells, making the brain a faster and more efficient machine. That's why you always feel smarter after a few beers. |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 03 Oct 10 - 01:41 AM "liberation of the muse most important if not essential. Metabolism- the fact that after one pitcher of beer my wife is asleep while I am saying wheres the rest of it." ... that explains the garden ... bet the county now regrets making him cut back the hedges .... |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: catspaw49 Date: 03 Oct 10 - 01:12 AM We've all heard your lunatic ramblings but so far you have not given even ONE concrete example. NAME NAMES..........C'mon Conrad......let's hear some real proof that what you say is right. Not just generalizations of your wacko shit, let's get down and dirty and tell us some names of these jetset pros and elite folkies........PUT UP OR SHUT UP! Spaw |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: *#1 PEASANT* Date: 03 Oct 10 - 12:49 AM Don you have to learn of the european tradition of drinking and the role of drink in relation to music. Ben Johnsion. The symposia. Read and learn. Yes liberation of the muse most important if not essential. This is not true for all aspects of folk music- for example hymns and songs of occupation. But Don do you not know that there are many many drinking songs in praise of alcohol and none of them say just have one expensive beer and none say if you cant afford it get a job so you can pay too much! Metabolism- the fact that after one pitcher of beer my wife is asleep while I am saying wheres the rest of it. Makes a lot of difference. It is good to reach a state where quality of performance is disregarded in favor of perhaps passion. Quallity simply does not matter. Taking care of the songs matters. Don you just dont want change to happen even though there is nothing wrong with it. Perhaps you need to drink more to understand. Conrad |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: Don Firth Date: 03 Oct 10 - 12:38 AM From an article on the psychology of fanaticism: "A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." –Winston Churchill According to the article, Conrad, however, is not a true fanatic. "A fanatic differs from a crank in that the latter term is typically associated with a position or opinion which is so far from the norm as to appear ludicrous and/or provably wrong." FYI. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 02 Oct 10 - 11:55 PM Why you would need to drink 4 Litres of Bier a day... A Peasant's Home QUOTE Welcome to the Residence! The county made me chop the vines down-this left a non aesthetic scene... so I added colorful cloth and neckties to create a Haitian like screen UNQUOTE Well there is certain charm.... |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 02 Oct 10 - 11:47 PM Look Out - it's happening overseas too! Troubadour Central Coast Website: http://www.troubadour.org.au Company Overview: The Troubadour is a non profit organisation located in the great golden land of Australia on the beautiful NSW Central Coast, surrounded by mountains and the ocean. Please take some time to read about what's happening in our Central Coast music and poetry group on our website. Our group is committed to preserving the traditions of heritage music and poetry for generations to come. We encourage participation by everyone and provide a place for beginning and advanced artists to become involved. Monthly Concerts of Quality groups (Usually the fourth Saturday of each month unless noted on a different day) Blackboard Concerts and Sessions Performances around the area for members Jam Sessions Frequent Activities Group Camping Trips Community Participation The Troubadour is a non profit organisation located in the great golden land of Australia on the beautiful NSW Central Coast, surrounded by mountains and the ocean. Please take some time to read about what's happening in our Central Coast music and poetry group on our website. Our group is committed to preserving the traditions of heritage music and poetry for generations to come. We encourage participation by everyone and provide a place for beginning and advanced artists to become involved.... (read more) Mission: To promote music and musicians especially the traditional variety and to nurture beginners and upcoming artists Products: Spreading the love of Traditional and Acoustic Music |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: Don Firth Date: 02 Oct 10 - 10:24 PM I recall back in 1964 while attending the Berkeley Folk Festival, winding up at a post-concert party with a small group of Berkeley folk singers whom I didn't really know all that well. About four songs into the session, the pot came out and a joint was being passed around the room. Not into that sort of thing, I passed. I noticed as the night wore on that people's singing and playing got sloppier and sloppier as still more joints made the rounds (you could almost get high on second hand smoke). Almost all of these people were aspiring to concert careers or singing across the bay at the Hungry i. But nobody was doing much of anything to bring it about. They kept telling each other things like, "Man, you've never played that well before! Cool!" And everyone else nodding in bleary-eyed agreement. When actually, they were playing wrong chords, stumbling over the words, and oftentimes singing off-pitch. Yet THEY were convinced that they were singing better than they ever had. That, I think, explained their lack of ambition, despite their desire for singing careers. A few tokes, and they had their own personal Carnegie Hall inside their own heads! Yeah, I can understand how someone can become a "visionary artist" after enough "bier." Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: frogprince Date: 02 Oct 10 - 09:58 PM The world has seen a lot of artists, and performers, whose own work looked much better to themselves after substantial quantities of alcohol. You were expected to consume four litres a day? What a lovely folky tradition to uphold. Other folks have had traditions of liberating their muses with LSD, cocaine, or heroin. But some of us capitalist pig elitists have been too stuck up to join in those traditions. |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: Don Firth Date: 02 Oct 10 - 09:51 PM By the way, Conrad, YOU said you drank three pitchers a day. Not MY hallucination. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: Don Firth Date: 02 Oct 10 - 09:49 PM ". . . every day it was expected that we consume around 4 liters each." You're HOOKED, Conrad! That explains a lot! "Liberation of the muse. . . ." Has nothing to do with metabolism. If you need "bier" to liberate your muse, Conrad, that demonstrates graphically that you are hooked. Your whole beef with the folk music thing is predicated on the cost of "bier." Case closed! (Well, not really. Conrad will just go out and see if he can promote another case – 24 bottles - open it, and dive in.) Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: *#1 PEASANT* Date: 02 Oct 10 - 09:13 PM The liver is fine. I dont drink three pitchers a day that is an hillucination but whilst in Munich working with germans every day it was expected that we consume around 4 liters each. We were doing grounds maintenance work,landscaping for the army. Liberation of the muse is a metabolic thing but it should be part of folk music in some of its forms. Conrad |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: Don Firth Date: 02 Oct 10 - 08:58 PM Good friend of mine. Went to high school with her, knew her for most of her life. Talented, nice singing voice, played a little bit of guitar, for a time she had a job as a dancer in a night club. She wasn't interested in building a folk singing career for herself, but bless her heart, she was good at ferreting out singing jobs for other singers. She led me to a couple of very good, long-term singing jobs. She married a guy who, shortly after their marriage, got called back into the army and sent overseas. To Germany. Being an officer, he was able to take his wife, my old friend, with him. While he was doing whatever he was doing in the army (cold war, Berlin wall, things were a bit tense), she didn't really have much to occupy her time. She and other officers wives would get together at the officers club—and drink. Great beer in Germany! Several years of this. I don't know the whole story, but things didn't work out. She and her husband got a divorce, and she returned to Seattle. I was shocked when I saw her. She had been gone for about five years, but during that time, she had really aged. She looked like she was about twenty years older than she really was. And this svelte dancers' body had gone to hell. She looked as if she were pregnant. She wasn't, but as a result of all that boozing, her liver was four times normal size. She was hooked on booze. But she was a very intelligent woman. She knew she needed psychiatric help and she went to a clinic where she managed to kick the booze and got herself dried out. But she never did return to her former hale-and-hearty self. Some years later, she was found one morning in her apartment by a neighbor who wondered why she hadn't seen her for several days. She was dead. Autopsy showed liver disease with all kinds of complications, and from what some of her neighbors said, she was showing distinct signs of early onset senile dementia. Didn't run in her family. Beer—was her drink of choice. And she'd been downing about three pitchers-worth a day. How's your liver, Conrad? Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: Don Firth Date: 02 Oct 10 - 08:23 PM Conrad says he's a "visionary artist." It would appear to me that what he thinks are visions, most people would call "hallucinations" or "delusions." Drinking three pitchers at a sitting and doing so repeatedly will do that to a person. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: *#1 PEASANT* Date: 02 Oct 10 - 08:17 PM And yeah you have your grandad and granny run the thing and they buy stuff from you and your friends.....come on..... Money need not....or get wasted.... Conrad |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 02 Oct 10 - 08:10 PM "Non profit means nothing it just means that the business entity cant make a profit not those they hire" Ah been bugged by this sort of ignorant loony before in the SCA - also a non-profit volunteer organization for Recreation of the fun (not the smells and poor health) of The Medieval period of History. Non profit means that those financial members who 'own' the organization take no share in the profit - taxes are still payable - but any profit get put back into purchasing assets, maintaining any existing assets, and offsetting any losses at future event. Some clowns tried to insist that every event should run at a loss, if not breaking even to the exact cent. Not surprising just ho much money got wasted.... If you don't understand what a word means, keep your mouth shut before preaching. |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: Jack Campin Date: 02 Oct 10 - 07:57 PM Here's how the widower of one of those fat-cat festival organizers is living high on the hog from his wife's ill-gotten gains: Iain Miles (Googling for "Citty Finlayson" will tell you who she was - one of the most effective and most loved organizers of traditional music events in the UK). |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: *#1 PEASANT* Date: 02 Oct 10 - 07:29 PM Hundreds of vendors are not at festival for recreation they are their for profit as are the organizers. Ok try the free festival concept-everything is donated everyone volunteers goods if sold are for cost. Then see how many organizers stick around or vendors either. They only love the money of the folk not the music. Many go from festival to festival regardless of music, same with promotors one day folk the other rock. No great love for the music. Conrad |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: Jack Campin Date: 02 Oct 10 - 07:00 PM others live perilously close to the edge - no assets, no pension scheme to speak of, resulting in calamity if anything in their life such as health gives way. Like Anne Feeney: article from an Oregon paper Fat cat. Yeah, right. |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: Will Fly Date: 02 Oct 10 - 06:55 PM there is a generally enforced teatotaling atmosphere enforced these days or strict moderation when it was never the case in the past. Conrad, I think you must live on another planet. Who's enforcing a 'teatotaling" atmosphere? I've never seen such a thing - ever. Still does not excuse high beer prices just to weed out the crowd via economic discriminaiton. If you seriously think that bars and pubs charge high prices just to 'weed out the crowd' - or that folk musicians hold sessions in expensive pubs just to 'weed out the crowd' - then you're a nincompoop. Pubs charge what they can to make a living - either a small living or a good one, depending on their attitude. Folk musicians should try to hold their sessions in inexpensive places not the most expensive. Dont think there is anything wrong with that suggestion. Well, that suggestion just demonstrates more of your stupidity. Folk musicians generally hold their sessions in places that will have them - and many places don't want that kind of music - so the restrictions that come into play are not based on beer prices but simply on what might be available. The cheapest places in town just may not want folk sessions - it's as simple as that. I have never yet, in all my playing years, heard of anyone being put off going to a pub to listen to or participate in a music session because the beer was either cheap or expensive. Apart from you, that is... What really arouses my curiosity are your initial arguments in this thread: (a) that folk music is vital to everyone's 'lifeway' (b) that economic circumstances are preventing that vital music from getting to poor people. You haven't produced one shred of evidence to support these points. You've banged on about folk professionals lolling by hotel pools and driving prices up - also preventing this 'vital' music from getting to poor people - but you haven't given us one concrete example of such a traditional folk musician. And you have consistently refused to give us a single example of this 'vital' music that is being prevented from being heard by poor people - not one example. Is it any wonder that you're not taken seriously. You can post what the devil you like on Mudcat - it's that sort of forum - but, if you simply repeat a theory or an argument without any evidence to support it, or refuse to quote any references or articles or examples to give real credence to your theory, or simply refuse to answer simple questions put to you, then you look and sound stupid. It's quite clear from your numerous posts in this thread that any musician who strives to be good at what he or she does, or any instrument maker who tries hard to create good instruments - or anyone who doesn't fit your crackpot theories - is dubbed 'elitist'. But to keep calling these people elitist is simply demonstrating your bad attack of sour grapes. The facts for you to face, Conrad, are that no-one is prevented from accessing folk music through economic circumstance, and that folk music - and we don't know what you mean by that term - is the hobby of a minority. And folk music is no more vital to the 'lifeway' of many people than any other form of music. |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: Don Firth Date: 02 Oct 10 - 06:26 PM "The point is that there is a generally enforced teatotaling atmosphere enforced these days or strict moderation when it was never the case in the past. "Still does not excuse high beer prices just to weed out the crowd via economic discriminaiton." Okay, there it is. Out of his own mouth, he just said it! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: The Concept of FREED Folkmusic From: *#1 PEASANT* Date: 02 Oct 10 - 06:19 PM Yes some people dont make money but lots of people do. No one should. Don what does it have to do with anything. Again I have never been tossed out of anywhere, my driving record is clean and I never play when anyone else is playing unless at an informal session. I dont think you can generalize from one report either. The point is that there is a generally enforced teatotaling atmosphere enforced these days or strict moderation when it was never the case in the past. Still does not excuse high beer prices just to weed out the crowd via economic discriminaiton. Folk musicians should try to hold their sessions in inexpensive places not the most expensive. Dont think there is anything wrong with that suggestion. I worked almost every weekend teaching in a very well known music venue in Baltimore without incident or any complaint from the management- they appreciated my appearance each week bringing new students and new people to the scene. Conrad |
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